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Author Topic: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in  (Read 20414 times)

Kiero

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Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #90 on: November 30, 2022, 07:54:34 AM »
I really wonder sometimes what the idolent think is going to happen when they hit 70-odd. Are they hoping they can trade in the broken body they've neglected for half a century for a healthier one?
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RandyB

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Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #91 on: November 30, 2022, 09:33:40 AM »
I really wonder sometimes what the idolent think is going to happen when they hit 70-odd. Are they hoping they can trade in the broken body they've neglected for half a century for a healthier one?

1. They don't think that far ahead, or expect to be painlessly dead by then.
2. They expect science - transhumanist science in particular - to render the issue moot.

oggsmash

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Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #92 on: November 30, 2022, 12:04:02 PM »
  it was the same for me when I was competing.  I also am old and almost ALL the programs and articles and information back then about how much volume you needed to progress came from people who were both extremely genetically gifted and juiced to the gills.  I am not so close to PRs yet(and honestly the bench press i dabbled with...but after pec surgery I might just stick to dips and press is my new big upper body compound), but 16 weeks back to squatting and I am getting towards sniffing distance of being as strong as I ever was (well, another 12 percent or so off on squat and deadlift, 10-12 percent seems like a lot at this stage) at age 51.  I have a similar issue that makes it hard to determine how much is simple "muscle memory" and how much more effective less volume is.  I do have the case of my brother who is 49 who has followed the same routine with me for 16 weeks who is right now the strongest he has ever been (he was not insanely strong before, but he has lifted weights on and off for years doing the "bro splits") by a good ways.  I do think there will be a need for more volume if I wanted to create a new baseline, but I think many of the things I lacked focus on as a teen/20's/30's person was the need for more sleep and proper nutrition.

What kind of program are you running? I'm 48 now so interested to see other non-young dude routines are effective. Dips/press upper body is super effective in my experience. If you can press your body weight, you're probably going to have near elite levels of upper body strength. One thing I'll say is that whenever I drink, lifts are affected for days...that was never the case 10 years ago.

  I do an age modified version of starting strength program by Mark Rippetoe.  I was doing the "normal" novice program (I find this to be very good to return to former levels of strength, but I was involved in activities that sapped my recovery from lifting for years and I have not lifted weights for almost 8 years at the point I was given the go ahead to push myself after pectoral repair surgery) which involved a linear progression and 3 workouts a week, all of which started with squats that progressed every workout.  I was able to tolerate this for about 10 weeks and I backed off to a 1-2 schedule (I lift weights every 3rd day, so one week every 3 I have 3 workouts but most weeks it is two per week) for the past 6 weeks (the squats that often seemed to wear on some part of my legs that consistently wanted to remind me I have not squatted in years) and I feel well recovered now that I have to push a good deal more that the squat workouts are over 360lb. 

    Once I return to a baseline that I feel will prevent stupid injuries while engaging in BJJ and kickboxing, I am not sure what sort of routine I will follow.  I feel good and I am curious if I can cross a few PR lines over the next full year.   The program centers around Squats, deadlifts, press, bench press, power cleans, and chin ups.   I substituted inclines for flat bench for 10 or so weeks and went to the flat bench once I felt the direct effort on the pectoral would be safe.   I feel odd doing flat bench (a lot of it is psychological wondering if the pec tendon will snap...no real chance of this, but blowing that pectoral out sidelined me for a loooong while thanks to covid) and I think the press is more useful for athletic expression any way.  So I just do dips as the stand in for the bench press. 

   Rippetoe is a bit of a blow hard and extremely opinionated, but I have found that after trying out what he suggests....he is right about lots of things.   He also has an intermediate routine (that is more volume and he flat out says if you are over 40 it will kill you if followed as written) that I may try to install after I run back towards the former numbers.  There are old guy versions of the intermediate routines he presents, but at that point I may be back to rolling around and kickboxing enough I would be happy with simple maintenance, especially if I am at PR levels of the past.

Brad

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Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #93 on: November 30, 2022, 02:18:01 PM »
  I do an age modified version of starting strength program by Mark Rippetoe.  I was doing the "normal" novice program (I find this to be very good to return to former levels of strength, but I was involved in activities that sapped my recovery from lifting for years and I have not lifted weights for almost 8 years at the point I was given the go ahead to push myself after pectoral repair surgery) which involved a linear progression and 3 workouts a week, all of which started with squats that progressed every workout.  I was able to tolerate this for about 10 weeks and I backed off to a 1-2 schedule (I lift weights every 3rd day, so one week every 3 I have 3 workouts but most weeks it is two per week) for the past 6 weeks (the squats that often seemed to wear on some part of my legs that consistently wanted to remind me I have not squatted in years) and I feel well recovered now that I have to push a good deal more that the squat workouts are over 360lb. 

    Once I return to a baseline that I feel will prevent stupid injuries while engaging in BJJ and kickboxing, I am not sure what sort of routine I will follow.  I feel good and I am curious if I can cross a few PR lines over the next full year.   The program centers around Squats, deadlifts, press, bench press, power cleans, and chin ups.   I substituted inclines for flat bench for 10 or so weeks and went to the flat bench once I felt the direct effort on the pectoral would be safe.   I feel odd doing flat bench (a lot of it is psychological wondering if the pec tendon will snap...no real chance of this, but blowing that pectoral out sidelined me for a loooong while thanks to covid) and I think the press is more useful for athletic expression any way.  So I just do dips as the stand in for the bench press. 

   Rippetoe is a bit of a blow hard and extremely opinionated, but I have found that after trying out what he suggests....he is right about lots of things.   He also has an intermediate routine (that is more volume and he flat out says if you are over 40 it will kill you if followed as written) that I may try to install after I run back towards the former numbers.  There are old guy versions of the intermediate routines he presents, but at that point I may be back to rolling around and kickboxing enough I would be happy with simple maintenance, especially if I am at PR levels of the past.

I own Practical Programming and Starting Strength and have used them for routines over the years; good books. I ran Texas Method on and off over a couple years and the burn out after 6 months was inevitable...doubt I could handle that today. Oddly, though, I ran a modified Smolov for bench a couple years ago and it was fine, same with a deadlift routine that is just a massive amount of volume. Honestly I think it's just squats that end up killing you with all the volume.
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oggsmash

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Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #94 on: November 30, 2022, 10:45:42 PM »
  Yeah the books are good.  I never bothered with the Texas method after I ran out the novice routine 8 years ago to return back to a baseline of strength (I really had not lifted weights for a decade prior to that as rolling 4-6 days a week and tossing in pad work and sparring did not allow for much recovery, so it was BW exercises to maintain a bit of strength) while I had a few months where I could not grapple or spar.  Even on paper it (texas method) looked like something that would put me in a hole I would never get out of recovery wise when combining my age (almost 44) and grappling 4 days a week average.   The novice run for a few months 8 years ago had put me back to a BW press, 455x5 squat and a 515x5 deadlift.  The pectoral that finally blew years later was showing me warning signs then, so I did very little bench press which in the end I do not know how much difference it made. 

   Now I am older, can opt in and out of grappling frequency so I might ride a moderate intermediate routine for a while once I am leveled out on "return to form" gains.   I would like to get my press back over 250 and power clean over 275 again, but I also realize with age the likelihood of hitting those without "hormone treatment" is unlikely.   I honestly am just glad I feel pretty good again moving about after having a looong time where I was pretty limited in exercise (rode my bicycle to death) and really laid about for too long.   I might not even get my DL and squat back where they were 8 years ago.   I have met my goal for now though to just get my body integrity back to a point where I won't be getting stupid nagging injuries grappling or kickboxing where the battle ship was just too brittle and rusty.   Plenty of regular nagging injuries to get doing those activities I didnt want to develop some where my CNS would react in a way my decrepit body could not withstand. 

   But regarding the texas method....it looks like a recipe for burnout and something I would probably not do for more than a 12 week run.   Any experience with 5-3-1?   I have been reading his books and it looks intriguing...the guy seems to have a similar mindset to mine (and honestly rippetoes) in that he is lifting weights to be a better human machine at this point than solely to see how much he can squat with a suit on or bench with a shirt on.   I find I just want the machine to last me a while at a functional level.   
« Last Edit: November 30, 2022, 10:51:32 PM by oggsmash »

RandyB

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Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #95 on: November 30, 2022, 10:55:57 PM »
I started almost three years ago with Starting Strength. But I knew that I needed a live coach, and found one. Not only was he the right coach, and worth every penny, but he's now also a good friend.

Once you've moved past novice lifting, your training should fit your goals. A good coach will help there, too. If you don't have one, the co-author of Practical Programming 3rd edition, Andy Baker, has an online operation that ranges from fill-in-the-blank training plans to individual coaching. Andy is not my coach, but my coach draws on Andy's experience in his own coaching. In particular, Andy has a rotation he calls "8-5-2" that my coach is using for programming my lifting, and I enjoy it a lot.

Brad

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Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #96 on: December 01, 2022, 04:11:09 AM »
Any experience with 5-3-1?

That's some good lifting. I checked my "records" (for whatever reason I have kept a PDF or Word doc of every routine I've run since 2002) and I did 5-3-1 in 2010, 2012, and again in 2017. Mainly as a way to mix it up and alleviate boredom I suppose. I think it's good for older people, mostly because of the higher percentage singles, which is more akin to Oly lifting, but I'm not any sort of expert. I will say he recommends quite a bit of accessory work, which can be obnoxious at times when you've just spent an hour doing heavy as fuck squats. That said, here's a good calc: https://blackironbeast.com/5/3/1/calculator

If you doing lots of BJJ or whatever, I'll throw this out there as a possible rec: Body Beast. I know it's some kitschy nonsense tv workout, but I have done it multiple times and it's a lot of fun. Plus lower chance of injury due to using only dumbbells. Unfortunately, unless you're gonna go the TRT route, you won't gain much strength if you're over about 25 years old due to it being an almost purely body building-oriented routine. But like I said, it's fun and I think you'd be less gassed if you're throwing in martial arts during the week as well. For someone with zero experience, it is actually about as good a routine as you can run without any sort of coaching due to how it's structured.

I started almost three years ago with Starting Strength. But I knew that I needed a live coach, and found one. Not only was he the right coach, and worth every penny, but he's now also a good friend.

Once you've moved past novice lifting, your training should fit your goals. A good coach will help there, too. If you don't have one, the co-author of Practical Programming 3rd edition, Andy Baker, has an online operation that ranges from fill-in-the-blank training plans to individual coaching. Andy is not my coach, but my coach draws on Andy's experience in his own coaching. In particular, Andy has a rotation he calls "8-5-2" that my coach is using for programming my lifting, and I enjoy it a lot.

Link to 8-5-2? Guessing it's just a higher volume 5-3-1?
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RandyB

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Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #97 on: December 01, 2022, 07:06:03 AM »
Here's his high level overview. He explains it far better than I could summarize.

 https://www.andybaker.com/why-the-8-5-2-program-works-in-a-nutshell/

oggsmash

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Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #98 on: December 01, 2022, 07:32:05 AM »
Any experience with 5-3-1?

That's some good lifting. I checked my "records" (for whatever reason I have kept a PDF or Word doc of every routine I've run since 2002) and I did 5-3-1 in 2010, 2012, and again in 2017. Mainly as a way to mix it up and alleviate boredom I suppose. I think it's good for older people, mostly because of the higher percentage singles, which is more akin to Oly lifting, but I'm not any sort of expert. I will say he recommends quite a bit of accessory work, which can be obnoxious at times when you've just spent an hour doing heavy as fuck squats. That said, here's a good calc: https://blackironbeast.com/5/3/1/calculator

If you doing lots of BJJ or whatever, I'll throw this out there as a possible rec: Body Beast. I know it's some kitschy nonsense tv workout, but I have done it multiple times and it's a lot of fun. Plus lower chance of injury due to using only dumbbells. Unfortunately, unless you're gonna go the TRT route, you won't gain much strength if you're over about 25 years old due to it being an almost purely body building-oriented routine. But like I said, it's fun and I think you'd be less gassed if you're throwing in martial arts during the week as well. For someone with zero experience, it is actually about as good a routine as you can run without any sort of coaching due to how it's structured.

I started almost three years ago with Starting Strength. But I knew that I needed a live coach, and found one. Not only was he the right coach, and worth every penny, but he's now also a good friend.

Once you've moved past novice lifting, your training should fit your goals. A good coach will help there, too. If you don't have one, the co-author of Practical Programming 3rd edition, Andy Baker, has an online operation that ranges from fill-in-the-blank training plans to individual coaching. Andy is not my coach, but my coach draws on Andy's experience in his own coaching. In particular, Andy has a rotation he calls "8-5-2" that my coach is using for programming my lifting, and I enjoy it a lot.

Link to 8-5-2? Guessing it's just a higher volume 5-3-1?

  I might take a look at it once I taper off.  I did a faddish routine years ago..P90x?  I did enjoy it and it complemented the other things I had going on because I think the CNS recovery is on a much lower scale.   I am a fan of the barbell if I have to do anything under resistance though, and now being older I like the idea of getting into and out of the gym in a timely manner.  Thinking back I burnt a lot of time on what could have been progress with lack of sleep( military sleep schedule for a young man is as destructive as it gets IMO), poor nutrition, over training with too much volume, and some party time mixed in during the week.  Youth can cover a lot of goof ups.   I  will take a look at it though, I find liking something at this point is the biggest key for me to stick to exercise over even effectiveness.  At least to a degree, because to be honest if someone told me today I never had to do a barbell squat or set of 5 deadlift I would not miss them even a little.

oggsmash

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Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #99 on: December 01, 2022, 07:36:26 AM »
  Now for the resistance training question, any of you decided to get TRT/hormone therapy yet?   I read a good deal about it and do not have the symptoms (for need of treatment) ...but I also realize there is a preferred range to be in for the activities I engage in.  No need for anyone to go too deep on something they feel is private, I am just curious as to experience with, even if it was a friend who did it.  I have a few people I know who get the treatment, and all of them swear by it.

Brad

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Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #100 on: December 01, 2022, 10:27:36 AM »
There's a place in town that does it, and I personally know a guy who did it, we used to work out together a couple years ago at the gym. He's an experienced lifter (actually worked as a strength coach for a Div 1 football team), and pretty close to my age. Basically he was recovering like an 18 year old and the strength gain was pretty substantial in such a short amount of time. I have been considering it even though my test levels are "normal" for my age, but am worried it'll be too much of a good thing and I'll get addicted. Not naming names, but I know a couple bodybuilders and they have all told me directly to never ride the bike unless I am certain I enjoy cycling in perpetuity because the appeal to keep going is so strong. I dunno...I was thinking of trying it out next year just to see what happens, if so I'll make a post about it.
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oggsmash

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Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #101 on: December 01, 2022, 11:49:09 AM »
There's a place in town that does it, and I personally know a guy who did it, we used to work out together a couple years ago at the gym. He's an experienced lifter (actually worked as a strength coach for a Div 1 football team), and pretty close to my age. Basically he was recovering like an 18 year old and the strength gain was pretty substantial in such a short amount of time. I have been considering it even though my test levels are "normal" for my age, but am worried it'll be too much of a good thing and I'll get addicted. Not naming names, but I know a couple bodybuilders and they have all told me directly to never ride the bike unless I am certain I enjoy cycling in perpetuity because the appeal to keep going is so strong. I dunno...I was thinking of trying it out next year just to see what happens, if so I'll make a post about it.

   I get similar reports.  My problem with the "normal range" is it is a huge fricking range.   I am pretty sure 300ng/dl is not going to feel the same as 900ng/dl.   I am also not so sure medical science knows what the normal range is considering all the factors in modern life that lower test levels from what they might have been 100 years ago.

RandyB

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Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #102 on: December 01, 2022, 11:59:10 AM »
There's a place in town that does it, and I personally know a guy who did it, we used to work out together a couple years ago at the gym. He's an experienced lifter (actually worked as a strength coach for a Div 1 football team), and pretty close to my age. Basically he was recovering like an 18 year old and the strength gain was pretty substantial in such a short amount of time. I have been considering it even though my test levels are "normal" for my age, but am worried it'll be too much of a good thing and I'll get addicted. Not naming names, but I know a couple bodybuilders and they have all told me directly to never ride the bike unless I am certain I enjoy cycling in perpetuity because the appeal to keep going is so strong. I dunno...I was thinking of trying it out next year just to see what happens, if so I'll make a post about it.

   I get similar reports.  My problem with the "normal range" is it is a huge fricking range.   I am pretty sure 300ng/dl is not going to feel the same as 900ng/dl.   I am also not so sure medical science knows what the normal range is considering all the factors in modern life that lower test levels from what they might have been 100 years ago.

IIRC, "normal" was rescaled down sometime in the last few decades. The excuse given was that levels had been dropping, and the new "normal" was statistically calibrated to the new, lower levels.

oggsmash

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Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #103 on: December 01, 2022, 12:08:22 PM »
There's a place in town that does it, and I personally know a guy who did it, we used to work out together a couple years ago at the gym. He's an experienced lifter (actually worked as a strength coach for a Div 1 football team), and pretty close to my age. Basically he was recovering like an 18 year old and the strength gain was pretty substantial in such a short amount of time. I have been considering it even though my test levels are "normal" for my age, but am worried it'll be too much of a good thing and I'll get addicted. Not naming names, but I know a couple bodybuilders and they have all told me directly to never ride the bike unless I am certain I enjoy cycling in perpetuity because the appeal to keep going is so strong. I dunno...I was thinking of trying it out next year just to see what happens, if so I'll make a post about it.

   I get similar reports.  My problem with the "normal range" is it is a huge fricking range.   I am pretty sure 300ng/dl is not going to feel the same as 900ng/dl.   I am also not so sure medical science knows what the normal range is considering all the factors in modern life that lower test levels from what they might have been 100 years ago.

IIRC, "normal" was rescaled down sometime in the last few decades. The excuse given was that levels had been dropping, and the new "normal" was statistically calibrated to the new, lower levels.

  Yeah I remember something along those lines.    I also wonder why TRT is so reluctantly prescribed by so many general practice doctors....yet things like hormone replacement for sex changes is embraced so readily.   I also never see any reluctance for aging women to get HRT.   Seems strange regarding testosterone, almost like it is a "hated" hormone.......

RandyB

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Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #104 on: December 01, 2022, 12:20:03 PM »
There's a place in town that does it, and I personally know a guy who did it, we used to work out together a couple years ago at the gym. He's an experienced lifter (actually worked as a strength coach for a Div 1 football team), and pretty close to my age. Basically he was recovering like an 18 year old and the strength gain was pretty substantial in such a short amount of time. I have been considering it even though my test levels are "normal" for my age, but am worried it'll be too much of a good thing and I'll get addicted. Not naming names, but I know a couple bodybuilders and they have all told me directly to never ride the bike unless I am certain I enjoy cycling in perpetuity because the appeal to keep going is so strong. I dunno...I was thinking of trying it out next year just to see what happens, if so I'll make a post about it.

   I get similar reports.  My problem with the "normal range" is it is a huge fricking range.   I am pretty sure 300ng/dl is not going to feel the same as 900ng/dl.   I am also not so sure medical science knows what the normal range is considering all the factors in modern life that lower test levels from what they might have been 100 years ago.

IIRC, "normal" was rescaled down sometime in the last few decades. The excuse given was that levels had been dropping, and the new "normal" was statistically calibrated to the new, lower levels.

  Yeah I remember something along those lines.    I also wonder why TRT is so reluctantly prescribed by so many general practice doctors....yet things like hormone replacement for sex changes is embraced so readily.   I also never see any reluctance for aging women to get HRT.   Seems strange regarding testosterone, almost like it is a "hated" hormone.......

Things that make you go "Hmmm...."