This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
The RPGPundit's Own Forum Rules
This part of the site is controlled by the RPGPundit. This is where he discusses topics that he finds interesting. You may post here, but understand that there are limits. The RPGPundit can shut down any thread, topic of discussion, or user in a thread at his pleasure. This part of the site is essentially his house, so keep that in mind. Note that this is the only part of the site where political discussion is permitted, but is regulated by the RPGPundit.

Author Topic: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in  (Read 6865 times)

Zelen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 744
Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #105 on: December 01, 2022, 06:06:23 PM »
There's a place in town that does it, and I personally know a guy who did it, we used to work out together a couple years ago at the gym. He's an experienced lifter (actually worked as a strength coach for a Div 1 football team), and pretty close to my age. Basically he was recovering like an 18 year old and the strength gain was pretty substantial in such a short amount of time. I have been considering it even though my test levels are "normal" for my age, but am worried it'll be too much of a good thing and I'll get addicted. Not naming names, but I know a couple bodybuilders and they have all told me directly to never ride the bike unless I am certain I enjoy cycling in perpetuity because the appeal to keep going is so strong. I dunno...I was thinking of trying it out next year just to see what happens, if so I'll make a post about it.

   I get similar reports.  My problem with the "normal range" is it is a huge fricking range.   I am pretty sure 300ng/dl is not going to feel the same as 900ng/dl.   I am also not so sure medical science knows what the normal range is considering all the factors in modern life that lower test levels from what they might have been 100 years ago.

IIRC, "normal" was rescaled down sometime in the last few decades. The excuse given was that levels had been dropping, and the new "normal" was statistically calibrated to the new, lower levels.

  Yeah I remember something along those lines.    I also wonder why TRT is so reluctantly prescribed by so many general practice doctors....yet things like hormone replacement for sex changes is embraced so readily.   I also never see any reluctance for aging women to get HRT.   Seems strange regarding testosterone, almost like it is a "hated" hormone.......

Isn't the reason it's reluctantly prescribed because your body's own hormone production shuts off if you use HRT for long enough? If you're forever dependent on injecting testosterone, that's a fairly big drawback. Seems more sensible to try to increase testosterone naturally through improving your diet & physical condition.

oggsmash

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3556
Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #106 on: December 01, 2022, 06:27:57 PM »
There's a place in town that does it, and I personally know a guy who did it, we used to work out together a couple years ago at the gym. He's an experienced lifter (actually worked as a strength coach for a Div 1 football team), and pretty close to my age. Basically he was recovering like an 18 year old and the strength gain was pretty substantial in such a short amount of time. I have been considering it even though my test levels are "normal" for my age, but am worried it'll be too much of a good thing and I'll get addicted. Not naming names, but I know a couple bodybuilders and they have all told me directly to never ride the bike unless I am certain I enjoy cycling in perpetuity because the appeal to keep going is so strong. I dunno...I was thinking of trying it out next year just to see what happens, if so I'll make a post about it.

   I get similar reports.  My problem with the "normal range" is it is a huge fricking range.   I am pretty sure 300ng/dl is not going to feel the same as 900ng/dl.   I am also not so sure medical science knows what the normal range is considering all the factors in modern life that lower test levels from what they might have been 100 years ago.

IIRC, "normal" was rescaled down sometime in the last few decades. The excuse given was that levels had been dropping, and the new "normal" was statistically calibrated to the new, lower levels.

  Yeah I remember something along those lines.    I also wonder why TRT is so reluctantly prescribed by so many general practice doctors....yet things like hormone replacement for sex changes is embraced so readily.   I also never see any reluctance for aging women to get HRT.   Seems strange regarding testosterone, almost like it is a "hated" hormone.......

Isn't the reason it's reluctantly prescribed because your body's own hormone production shuts off if you use HRT for long enough? If you're forever dependent on injecting testosterone, that's a fairly big drawback. Seems more sensible to try to increase testosterone naturally through improving your diet & physical condition.


  Well, they hit women with it left and right.  They also make NO ATTEMPT to address a profile that is on the low end of "normal" like say 275ng/dl.   I for certain think increasing your profile from exercise, sleep, and diet are priority number 1.  I think lots of men with low T have it because of modern lifestyle in as much as anything else.   I also know that your levels are going to decrease with age, and doctors seem very reluctant to allow a 55 year old to have the test level of a 25 year old for what appear to me to be reasons unknown.  They will literally throw happy pills, pain pills, sex change drugs, hard on pills,  etc at patients but are worried about an older man having his natural production levels reduced?   I am not so sure that is the reason.  If it was ANY concern at all they would have therapies to increase natural levels (reality is modern doctors have no idea what a good or healthy level is, they just know what the "average" is and the range is so freaking wide it is completely meaningless). 

Kyle Aaron

  • high-minded hack
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9377
  • high-minded hack
    • The Viking Hat GM
Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #107 on: December 01, 2022, 07:13:10 PM »
  Now for the resistance training question, any of you decided to get TRT/hormone therapy yet?
No.

I actually enquired about it. It very quickly became clear that the doctor was going to prescribe me T jabs no matter what any test results said, I could have been a 240lb hairy muscle mountain lumberjack with a baritone voice from 1900, her primary concern wasn't my health but money - her husband's company supplied the drugs. So I dropped that and looked into other things, and it came good.

I think very very few people need it, much more commonly they just need to improve their sleep, food, exercise and overall stresses in life. The Art of Manliness guy shared how he doubled his testosterone in 90 days with some simple changes, and reported again 7 years later.

Quote from: Art of Manliness
Ultimately then, the specific practices attendant to a healthy lifestyle matter less than the fact that you do them consistently. Keep your body fat down (with whatever diet suits you). Lift heavy weights (with the workout program you personally enjoy). Prioritize sleep and stress management (with the methods that work best for you). And you should be good.

As for,
Quote from: oggsmash
My problem with the "normal range" is it is a huge fricking range.
This is like the issue of BMI vs bodyfat percentage, and so on. No single number is going to tell you everything you need to know about your health. For example, I have a higher saturated fat consumption than is recommended in Australia or the US (12-15% of daily calories vs Australia's max 10% and the USA's max 5%), so in principle I should have high blood cholesterol; but I also have decent fibre consumption (about 32g daily vs Oz rec 30) which brings it down to a decent range.

As a fun fact, some elite athletes have below average testosterone levels. Now, this could be an effect of their doping - you take T to enhance performance, your body produces less by itself, you stop the jabs coming up to a competition so you won't get pinged, they test you, voila you're low today. But if nothing else it shows that your T levels don't necessarily affect your performance on a day-to-day basis - those doping athletes would be putting out personal bests on the day of their lowest testosterone.

Obviously all the muscle they've built before then helps them more than the depressed T hinders them. So again - it's about more than one number.

Thinking of other markers of health, we don't see 1:1 correlations of blood pressure, cholesterol, blood glucose or anything else with overall mortality. There are trends only. No single number will tell you everything about your health, and focusing just on that one number can actually make your health worse, I believe - I think this is a significant cause of iatrogenic deaths worldwide.

Quote from: oggsmash
Seems strange regarding testosterone, almost like it is a "hated" hormone.......
Obviously there are cultural and not scientific reasons for the differences you laid out. Nonetheless I think it a good principle that we should not use a medical intervention where a non-medical intervention can do as well. The less shit we put in ourselves and the less poking about in our bodies with scalpels, the better for our long-term health and our wallets.

It's like the people I've had in the gym who had back pain and were awaiting surgery. "Well, your surgery isn't for six months. Whether you sit on the couch for six months or lift for six months, you're still going to have wait six months for the surgery. And after surgery, you will lose strength. All doctors agree that it's better to go into surgery strong than weak. So you may as well lift for these six months."

If you've done everything non-medical you possibly can to address whatever you think the issue is and it's not fixed, by all means jab away.

In the oggsmash case, food and exercise will be fine, I'm sure. So it'll be sleep and overall stress. Those things can fuck you up.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2022, 07:15:57 PM by Kyle Aaron »
The Viking Hat GM
Conflict, the adventure game of modern warfare
Wastrel Wednesdays, livestream with Dungeondelver

Brad

  • Semper Qvantvm Potes
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2929
Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #108 on: December 01, 2022, 08:47:25 PM »
I think very very few people need it, much more commonly they just need to improve their sleep, food, exercise and overall stresses in life.

Try having a 4 and 7 year old and see how easy it is to regulate any of those...doing okay on food, but the other three are a lost cause at this point. Someone needs to write up a routine for the "I maybe get 4 hours of sleep a night and work a bullshit full time job" crowd.

RE: the surgery thing...I had a large tear in my rotator cuff, got an MRI, etc. Did some of that airrosti stuff and was basically told I could either get surgery to "fix it" and maybe it'd be better? Or I could just gut it out and it'd hurt forever but probably heal well enough to gain my strength back. So I did the second one, and glad I did. I have an ACL in one knee and ACL/MCL in the other, slipped disc, slightly compressed spine, recently broken leg, and a slew of other injuries I could get cut for, but fuck that. Just drink some Scotch every so often and still hit the gym the best I can. Oddly enough, my younger brother decided to get cut for his knee pain and now he has limited mobility and it still never healed properly, so I really don't see the point.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2022, 08:51:30 PM by Brad »
It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.

Kyle Aaron

  • high-minded hack
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9377
  • high-minded hack
    • The Viking Hat GM
Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #109 on: December 01, 2022, 09:03:30 PM »
Try having a 4 and 7 year old and see how easy it is to regulate any of those...doing okay on food, but the other three are a lost cause at this point. Someone needs to write up a routine for the "I maybe get 4 hours of sleep a night and work a bullshit full time job" crowd.
I've experienced these things. It's not easy, but it can be done. It sometimes requires changes which might take years to happen. That's alright, low T or whatever isn't going to kill you in a few years.

Basically think of any significant change in life - degree, new career, getting married, having children, moving to a new country and learning the language, going from superobese to healthy or vice versa - as taking 5 years to do. How many more 5 year chunks do you have in your life? I'm 51, assuming no lethal accidents or imprisonment and some years of decay between one plan and death I've got probably 5, maybe 7 if I'm lucky. 

If you make even a small change or two and keep them up daily for the next 5 years - well, you may or may not be heaps better than now, but you're not going to be worse, that's for sure. Whereas if you do nothing you'll be worse. Figure out something you can do, and do it.

I firmly believe that most people whose marriages, businesses etc fail, it's not because of some major character flaw in them, but just that they get so caught up in handling the day-to-day bullshit they go off track.

Quote
Oddly enough, my younger brother decided to get cut for his knee pain and now he has limited mobility and it still never healed properly, so I really don't see the point.
There are commonly two things here. Firstly, if a joint's falling apart in some way, they'll reconstruct it tighter than it was before - they don't want to see you back there in 12 months. Secondly, people tend not to have constant pain, but pain outside a certain range of motion, let's say 120 degrees. So the person stays in 110 degrees of motion to avoid the pain. Of course, then they find that it hurts at 110 degrees, now they stay within 100, and so on. It's a nasty spiral, and then the person ends up moving like Frankenstein's monster.
The Viking Hat GM
Conflict, the adventure game of modern warfare
Wastrel Wednesdays, livestream with Dungeondelver

oggsmash

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3556
Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #110 on: December 02, 2022, 05:06:38 AM »
  Oh, make no mistake the fact an internist is extremely reluctant to prescribe and at an "age management clinic" they will prescribe if you show up looking like 1965 Arnold is also concerning to me. 
  I would prefer an unbiased answer on a preferred level, not one from the pencil neck doctor that will not prescribe unless you show up at under 200ng. and I do not want the dude who looks like he just lifted a truck tell me I am not doing terrible, but would I like to maintain a newer baseline of 1000ng to feel better and be better.   Just give me a real number.     

oggsmash

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3556
Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #111 on: December 02, 2022, 05:18:33 AM »
  elite athletes with low T are almost always one of 3 things or a combination of them.   Over training (elite athletes often have the genes to survive this and just have test level beaten down instead of breaking the way most people would), dieting (weight class sports are notorious for beating people's hormones to death), and as said....doping.  "Cheating" is extremely common and for many sports drug tests are a bit of a joke and there is a great deal to gain from cheating and often more to gain from cheating and winning than there is to lose from cheating and getting caught.  So not so sure some elite athletes showing low test levels while training their asses off means much.

Kiero

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • K
  • Posts: 2879
Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #112 on: December 02, 2022, 06:59:56 AM »
It was eye-opening for me that most of the male Instagram "fitness influencers" are on gear. That's why they look the way they do. Some of the female ones, too.
Currently running: Tyche's Favourites, a historical ACKS campaign set around Massalia in 300BC.

Our podcast site, In Sanity We Trust Productions.

Brad

  • Semper Qvantvm Potes
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2929
Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #113 on: December 02, 2022, 09:01:24 AM »
It was eye-opening for me that most of the male Instagram "fitness influencers" are on gear. That's why they look the way they do. Some of the female ones, too.

What's eye-opening to me is people actually thought dudes like that liver king fellow weren't riding bikes...
It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.

oggsmash

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3556
Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #114 on: December 02, 2022, 07:07:57 PM »
  There are a few dead giveaways that show a juicer at a glance.  I remember when I had buddies who went whole hog on "augmentation" back in '92, and what was shocking to me was how many people who were juicing who looked.....average or above average at best.  Newbs were hitting juice, which was the biggest waste imaginable.

oggsmash

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3556
Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #115 on: December 02, 2022, 07:14:47 PM »
  What really shocks me is how many actors blatantly juice or people like the ROCK and fans think its "hard work" and "focus".   As for influencers, I figure anyone attention whore enough to be a "fitness influencer"  would likely sign a contract with Satan for fame, so roids are no sort of issue for them to take at all.

oggsmash

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3556
Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #116 on: December 07, 2022, 05:42:06 AM »
  I also suspect I might be more open to the idea of TRT after starting back on a more regular martial arts training schedule (mostly grappling 2 days a week or so) and trying to maintain a bit of lifting (1 on two off, I may look at more of a split on my time not doing a full body workout every time as I head back towards a more intermediate loading/stress schedule lifting).  I do not know how recovery is going to get hit and I rather not do anything to put me in too early a grave but if all this medical technology and science we all love so much in the modern world can leave me high functioning for another 20 years..........

oggsmash

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3556
Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #117 on: December 11, 2022, 12:51:10 PM »
 Sort of stuck with press.  I can not seem to get that 3rd set of 5 with 185.   Two work outs in a row and did not hit the mark.   I did have less than optimal sleep the past 8 days, and I am asking you experts here, would be better to go to a top set of 5 and back off the second two, rotate volume in every other work out and just try to hit a 5RM instead, or even drop to a triple run for a few weeks?   

    On the other ends dips are constantly improving (just worked them into rotation a few weeks ago) and I felt they were contributing to press, but my approach was extremely simple, a basic linear progression.   I am considering headed towards a modified texas style method and hitting volume with press/dips one day and intensity the other for a change in adaption.  I do not think I will go big volume or massive increase in intensity with the squat or my pulls yet (Squat keeps progressing, I just find the need for a back off day rather than constant increase on days I have power cleans or a deadlift on the same day) but it seems my press is calling out for some changing of routing.   

   I plan to give the linear another 7-10 days after ensuring a minimum of 7 hours sleep per day and if that does not move me along change out my strategy on increases for press (moving to a weekly strategy instead of a per work out).  I need to change strategy soon any way, as linear can only move me for so long, and I am around 17 weeks now.    Advice?  This is also assuming I focus all recovery on lifting for another month or so before mashing my body with added grappling/kickboxing. 

Zelen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 744
Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #118 on: December 11, 2022, 01:20:51 PM »
Not an expert by any means but I had some improvement incorporating some of the bench press technique suggestions I saw by Jeff Nippard. Essentially: Establish a good grip, use wider hand placement, engage the core and posterior chain by pressing through the heel while pressing the bar.

https://yewtu.be/watch?v=vcBig73ojpE

oggsmash

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3556
Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #119 on: December 11, 2022, 02:26:50 PM »
Not an expert by any means but I had some improvement incorporating some of the bench press technique suggestions I saw by Jeff Nippard. Essentially: Establish a good grip, use wider hand placement, engage the core and posterior chain by pressing through the heel while pressing the bar.

https://yewtu.be/watch?v=vcBig73ojpE

  Press I refer to is over head press.  I do not do bench press at all, it feels odd, and since I just had my pectoral reattached after a grade 3 blow out, dunno if bench press is coming back.  Dips fill that hole.  If when I said press, you thought it was bench press, my fault...I should have said standing press (I can see where press is assumed to mean bench given how popular it is).