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Author Topic: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!  (Read 16100 times)

HappyDaze

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Re: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!
« Reply #150 on: May 12, 2021, 09:39:19 AM »
Imagine saying something so mind-blowingly stupid then backtracking and pretending it's a nuanced position...typical gaslighting communist rhetoric.
It's also the SOP of Fox News.

This Guy
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Re: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!
« Reply #151 on: May 12, 2021, 01:08:51 PM »
Imagine saying something so mind-blowingly stupid then backtracking and pretending it's a nuanced position...typical gaslighting communist rhetoric.

so I gotta ask, Brad can't even tell a joke worth a damn and he's probably on like half the ignore lists I am. What's with this privilege
I don't want to play with you.

Shasarak

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Re: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!
« Reply #152 on: May 12, 2021, 04:35:24 PM »
Imagine saying something so mind-blowingly stupid then backtracking and pretending it's a nuanced position...typical gaslighting communist rhetoric.
It's also the SOP of Fox News.

Uh huh, but only Fox News amiright.

Not your news channel.
Who da Drow?  U da drow! - hedgehobbit

There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

HappyDaze

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Re: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!
« Reply #153 on: May 12, 2021, 05:08:12 PM »
Imagine saying something so mind-blowingly stupid then backtracking and pretending it's a nuanced position...typical gaslighting communist rhetoric.
It's also the SOP of Fox News.

Uh huh, but only Fox News amiright.

Not your news channel.
Which news channel is mine?

Brad

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Re: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!
« Reply #154 on: May 12, 2021, 07:29:29 PM »
https://principia-scientific.com/57-top-scientists-and-doctors-stop-all-covid-vaccinations/

So if one of THOSE dudes were my doctor, I am sure the communists would say no no no don’t believe these obvious lunatics!

Right? RIGHT!.
It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.

jhkim

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Re: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!
« Reply #155 on: May 12, 2021, 08:38:16 PM »
https://principia-scientific.com/57-top-scientists-and-doctors-stop-all-covid-vaccinations/

So if one of THOSE dudes were my doctor, I am sure the communists would say no no no don’t believe these obvious lunatics!

Right? RIGHT!.

Have you looked at the author list? Your link doesn't show either the authors or the references for the article, but the original is apparently at

https://en-volve.com/2021/05/08/57-top-scientists-and-doctors-release-shocking-study-on-covid-vaccines-and-demand-immediate-stop-to-all-vaccinations/

I'm including it below.

Quote
Roxana Bruno1, Peter McCullough2, Teresa Forcades i Vila3, Alexandra Henrion-Caude4, Teresa García-Gasca5, Galina P. Zaitzeva6, Sally Priester7, María J. Martínez Albarracín8, Alejandro Sousa-Escandon9, Fernando López Mirones10, Bartomeu Payeras Cifre11, Almudena Zaragoza Velilla10, Leopoldo M. Borini1, Mario Mas1, Ramiro Salazar1, Edgardo Schinder1, Eduardo A Yahbes1, Marcela Witt1, Mariana Salmeron1, Patricia Fernández1, Miriam M. Marchesini1, Alberto J. Kajihara1, Marisol V. de la Riva1, Patricia J. Chimeno1, Paola A. Grellet1, Matelda Lisdero1, Pamela Mas1, Abelardo J. Gatica Baudo12, Elisabeth Retamoza12, Oscar Botta13, Chinda C. Brandolino13, Javier Sciuto14, Mario Cabrera Avivar14, Mauricio Castillo15, Patricio Villarroel15, Emilia P. Poblete Rojas15, Bárbara Aguayo15, Dan I. Macías Flores15, Jose V. Rossell16, Julio C. Sarmiento17, Victor Andrade-Sotomayor17, Wilfredo R. Stokes Baltazar18, Virna Cedeño Escobar19, Ulises Arrúa20, Atilio Farina del Río21, Tatiana Campos Esquivel22, Patricia Callisperis23, María Eugenia Barrientos24, Karina Acevedo-Whitehouse5,*

1Epidemiólogos Argentinos Metadisciplinarios. República Argentina.
2Baylor University Medical Center. Dallas, Texas, USA.
3Monestir de Sant Benet de Montserrat, Montserrat, Spain
4INSERM U781 Hôpital Necker-Enfants Malades, Université Paris Descartes-Sorbonne Cité, Institut Imagine, Paris, France.
5School of Natural Sciences. Autonomous University of Querétaro, Querétaro, Mexico.
6Retired Professor of Medical Immunology. Universidad de Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico.
7Médicos por la Verdad Puerto Rico. Ashford Medical Center. San Juan, Puerto Rico.
8Retired Professor of Clinical Diagnostic Processes. University of Murcia, Murcia, Spain
9Urologist Hospital Comarcal de Monforte, University of Santiago de Compostela, Spain.
10Biólogos por la Verdad, Spain.
11Retired Biologist. University of Barcelona. Specialized in Microbiology. Barcelona, Spain.
12Center for Integrative Medicine MICAEL (Medicina Integrativa Centro Antroposófico Educando en Libertad). Mendoza, República Argentina.
13Médicos por la Verdad Argentina. República Argentina. ´
14Médicos por la Verdad Uruguay. República Oriental del Uruguay.
15Médicos por la Libertad Chile. República de Chile.
16Physician, orthopedic specialist. República de Chile.
17Médicos por la Verdad Perú. República del Perú.
18Médicos por la Verdad Guatemala. República de Guatemala.
19Concepto Azul S.A. Ecuador.
20Médicos por la Verdad Brasil. Brasil.
21Médicos por la Verdad Paraguay.
22Médicos por la Costa Rica.
23Médicos por la Verdad Bolivia.
24Médicos por la Verdad El Salvador.
* Correspondence: Karina Acevedo-Whitehouse, karina.acevedo.whitehouse@uaq.mx

I searched on a handful of these, and I turned up only social media or Spanish-language news about their covid claims.

If one of these happens to be your doctor, then it's no big deal for me. Though, I would suggest you get a second opinion before taking chlorine dioxide pills from Acevedo-Whitehouse.

I do note that the article is written to appear like a scientific paper, but it clearly hasn't been reviewed by anyone. There are typos even in the author list, and most of them don't have credentials listed or practice listed. There is no mention in the original about what journal it was submitted to.

oggsmash

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Re: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!
« Reply #156 on: May 12, 2021, 09:54:46 PM »
Imagine saying something so mind-blowingly stupid then backtracking and pretending it's a nuanced position...typical gaslighting communist rhetoric.
It's also the SOP of Fox News.

Uh huh, but only Fox News amiright.

Not your news channel.
Which news channel is mine?

  It doesnt matter, if they have a channel they lie, gaslight and do the bidding of massive corporations.

Mistwell

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Re: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!
« Reply #157 on: May 12, 2021, 10:51:52 PM »
But muh science.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2101.07993.pdf

Money shots:

"Most fundamentally, the groups we studied believe that science is a process, and not an institution."

"Indeed, anti-maskers often reveal themselves to be more sophisticated in their understanding of how scientific knowledge is socially constructed than their ideological adversaries, who espouse naïve realism about the “objective” truth of public health data."

"In other words, anti-maskers value unmediated access to information and privilege personal research and direct reading over “expert” interpretations."

"Its members value individual initiative and ingenuity, trusting scientific analysis only insofar as they can replicate it themselves by accessing and manipulating the data firsthand."

"They are highly reflexive about the inherently biased nature of any analysis, and resent what they view as the arrogant self-righteousness of scientific elites."

"Many of the users believe that the most important metrics are missing from government-released data."

"One user wrote: 'Coding data is a big deal—and those definitions should be offered transparently by every state. Without a national guideline—we are left with this mess'."

I can't tell if I'm being punked, or if this is a cry for help akin to POWs blinking Morse Code, or they're actually serious.

It's almost like there should be some way to make sure the science is correct.  Like maybe some sort of "method" whereby transparent data and processes are scrutinized and replicated or disproved by other scientists conducting the same research.

I'm not anti-vaxx -- I've been to Egypt so I have more vaccinations than the Canadian average -- I just don't trust these junk mRNA gene therapies that we're not allowed to call gene therapies according to my "government."

SO get the J&J vaccine.

Shasarak

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Re: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!
« Reply #158 on: May 12, 2021, 11:52:18 PM »
Imagine saying something so mind-blowingly stupid then backtracking and pretending it's a nuanced position...typical gaslighting communist rhetoric.
It's also the SOP of Fox News.

Uh huh, but only Fox News amiright.

Not your news channel.
Which news channel is mine?

Thats the point.  Only your channel is the one talking the straight talk. 

Its everyone else thats crazy  :o
Who da Drow?  U da drow! - hedgehobbit

There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

Brad

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Re: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!
« Reply #159 on: May 13, 2021, 09:20:40 AM »
If one of these happens to be your doctor, then it's no big deal for me. Though, I would suggest you get a second opinion before taking chlorine dioxide pills from Acevedo-Whitehouse.

So I'm not supposed to do my own research and just blindly follow what my doctor says, but also if I am told by my doctor to do something that goes against the current CCP-sponsored brainwashing I need a second opinion. Which one is it, shill? Why would I ever seek a second opinion unless I had researched a treatment and thought it sounded suspect?

You are so fucking retarded it's not even funny. Thanks for PROVING IT beyond a shadow of a doubt. Are you at least getting paid to promote Chinese propaganda?

Eagerly awaiting the newest squirmy monkey dance where you try to justify everything you've said while maintaining your alleged air of indifference while parroting the MSM. It'd be laughable if it wasn't so sad. It also makes me weep for legitimate science because people like you with higher degrees literally cannot comprehend you are nothing more than empty shells spewing out whatever you're told to spew. No actual critical thinking skills.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2021, 09:22:53 AM by Brad »
It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.

rgalex

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Re: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!
« Reply #160 on: May 13, 2021, 11:25:07 AM »
Ohio is opening up on June 2nd.  Maybe.  All the health orders, except ones relating to nursing homes and assisted living, are being lifted.  It will then be up to individual businesses to decide on what masking and social distancing they want to enforce, if any.

This is despite not reaching any of the goalposts he's previously set, like only 50/100,000 cases.  Most likely because the Ohio GOP had already passed a bill, and overrode the governor's veto, to end all the health orders.  It would have gone into effect June 28th.  So now DeWine gets to say he removed all the restrictions and anyone not really paying attention will think he's a great guy.

I will note that DeWine just had to get one more masked holiday in there before letting go.  Couldn't lift it for the Memorial Day weekend.

Also, far as I know, there is no current talk about passing any sort of anti-vaccine passport type of legislation like a few other states have.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2021, 11:27:04 AM by rgalex »

Zelen

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Re: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!
« Reply #161 on: May 13, 2021, 05:07:48 PM »
I am generally very pro-science, meaning true peer-reviewed research in mainstream journals. Earlier, you brought up the case of smoking and tobacco companies earlier -- but I think you're drawing different conclusions from that example.

The tobacco companies had hundreds of millions of dollars, but they were completely unable to buy any mainstream peer-reviewed research that refuted the link with cancer. All the traditional institutions continued to publish results showing a clear link between cigarettes and cancer. Instead, the companies mainly tried to use PR and obfuscation to tell people "don't believe the scientists". They created their own research institute (TIRC) and put in place the handful of scientists who disputed the link, but TIRC didn't actually produce any peer-reviewed paper disputing the link. Instead, they mostly just created PR, and opinions from a few selected individual scientists like Clarence Little. The papers they actually published were mostly unrelated to the tobacco-cancer link. I thought the book "The Emperor of All Maladies" had a good account of it, and was a good read in general.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7170627-the-emperor-of-all-maladies

I think it's a great example of how opinion pieces and PR are easily bought, but mainstream science is not. Money could buy a handful of corrupt or simply incorrect scientists, but it didn't change the mass of research.

As with all analogies the purpose is not to be an exact 1:1 relationship. The point I was making is that even highly intelligent people have a big blind spot when it comes to questioning how their own work fits in to a bigger picture.

If the authors of the paper are going to invoke the Tobacco industry analogy, which they did, then it's worth taking the analogy they themselves used and seeing if the particular framing they presented is a good match to the phenomena they are discussing.

The only purpose of raising the point at all is that it's fairly self-evident that the people who are arguing for transparency in government reporting, want to conduct independent analysis of data, and argue for individual rights & freedoms to make informed medical choices doesn't map very well onto people who were being paid by BigTobacco so they could sell more product. However the authors of this paper are being paid to produce work which utilizes numerous nonscientific rhetorical tactics (highly colored language, appeal to authority, non-sequitur, biased framing, etc) to undermine the credibility of independent researchers without actually demonstrating flaws with the analyses they may have generated. This type of generalized endeavor is fundamentally rhetorical, not scientific.

I haven't read the book you're citing, so I can't speak to anything specific that it says. However the perspective you're painting with regard to academic work seems rosy. While you're free to put as much faith in the academic credentials & institutions as you like, how scientifically-evidenced is that belief? This is actually an interesting question worth studying.

The larger point where I suspect the greatest difference of opinion occurs is on whether the institutions & academic literature are corruptible. I don't presume that academic institutions are uniquely resistant to corruption. Rather, the relationship between government & NGOs & academia is an inherent moral hazard. It's really impossible to even fully articulate the scope of the problem. I suspect it's hard for individual companies to exert considerable influence on academia. However, the people who own the money printers for the world's global fiat currency definitely can.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2021, 06:26:43 PM by Zelen »

This Guy
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Re: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!
« Reply #162 on: May 13, 2021, 06:14:35 PM »
If one of these happens to be your doctor, then it's no big deal for me. Though, I would suggest you get a second opinion before taking chlorine dioxide pills from Acevedo-Whitehouse.

So I'm not supposed to do my own research and just blindly follow what my doctor says, but also if I am told by my doctor to do something that goes against the current CCP-sponsored brainwashing I need a second opinion. Which one is it, shill? Why would I ever seek a second opinion unless I had researched a treatment and thought it sounded suspect?

You are so fucking retarded it's not even funny. Thanks for PROVING IT beyond a shadow of a doubt. Are you at least getting paid to promote Chinese propaganda?

Eagerly awaiting the newest squirmy monkey dance where you try to justify everything you've said while maintaining your alleged air of indifference while parroting the MSM. It'd be laughable if it wasn't so sad. It also makes me weep for legitimate science because people like you with higher degrees literally cannot comprehend you are nothing more than empty shells spewing out whatever you're told to spew. No actual critical thinking skills.


seriously this shit doesn't get ignore-listed? you can read this on any hausfrau's facebook feed any day without the obnoxious duckface
I don't want to play with you.

Ratman_tf

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Re: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!
« Reply #163 on: May 13, 2021, 08:29:47 PM »
If one of these happens to be your doctor, then it's no big deal for me. Though, I would suggest you get a second opinion before taking chlorine dioxide pills from Acevedo-Whitehouse.

So I'm not supposed to do my own research and just blindly follow what my doctor says, but also if I am told by my doctor to do something that goes against the current CCP-sponsored brainwashing I need a second opinion. Which one is it, shill? Why would I ever seek a second opinion unless I had researched a treatment and thought it sounded suspect?

You are so fucking retarded it's not even funny. Thanks for PROVING IT beyond a shadow of a doubt. Are you at least getting paid to promote Chinese propaganda?

Eagerly awaiting the newest squirmy monkey dance where you try to justify everything you've said while maintaining your alleged air of indifference while parroting the MSM. It'd be laughable if it wasn't so sad. It also makes me weep for legitimate science because people like you with higher degrees literally cannot comprehend you are nothing more than empty shells spewing out whatever you're told to spew. No actual critical thinking skills.


seriously this shit doesn't get ignore-listed? you can read this on any hausfrau's facebook feed any day without the obnoxious duckface

Who the fuck are you talking to? If you want to go out with Brad, just ask him. This passive aggressive shit isn't attractive to guys.
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jhkim

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Re: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!
« Reply #164 on: May 13, 2021, 08:40:50 PM »
I am generally very pro-science, meaning true peer-reviewed research in mainstream journals. Earlier, you brought up the case of smoking and tobacco companies earlier -- but I think you're drawing different conclusions from that example.

I haven't read the book you're citing, so I can't speak to anything specific that it says. However the perspective you're painting with regard to academic work seems rosy. While you're free to put as much faith in the academic credentials & institutions as you like, how scientifically-evidenced is that belief? This is actually an interesting question worth studying.

The larger point where I suspect the greatest difference of opinion occurs is on whether the institutions & academic literature are corruptible. I don't presume that academic institutions are uniquely resistant to corruption. Rather, the relationship between government & NGOs & academia is an inherent moral hazard. It's really impossible to even fully articulate the scope of the problem. I suspect it's hard for individual companies to exert considerable influence on academia. However, the people who own the money printers for the world's global fiat currency definitely can.

Of course scientific institutions and academic literature are corruptible and can be wrong. But *so is everything else*, so that's not really a useful statement.

The big question is - how reliable are scientific results *compared to other sources of information*?

There are plenty of anti-establishment figures like bloggers and Youtubers who claim the scientific establishment is lying about issue X. Now, the scientific establishment might be corrupt and/or wrong on this point. There are examples of this happening in the past. However, it is also possible that the anti-establishment bloggers and/or Youtubers are corrupt and/or wrong. Plenty of people have just been trying to make a buck by selling snake oil or just selling books or clicks they get from their audience. Overall, I think the track record of science critic bloggers and Youtubers is far worse than the scientific establishment. To make this concrete - if someone is self-educated by Youtube videos and other non-scientific sources as well as personal experience, would I want them handling my medical issues compared to someone who is a credentialed doctor from a medical school? Personally, I'd want the establishment-credentialed doctor.

Your link is a study saying "Why Most Published Research Findings Are False". First of all, that itself is a single paper with a single author, so it might itself be wrong. But in the bigger picture, I agree that plenty of individual peer-reviewed papers do turn out to be wrong in hindsight. But even if only 40% of individual peer-reviewed papers are right, the question is, what percentage of predictions from science critics are right?

The methodology of science has lots of safeguards against different forms of corruption - like peer review from widely scattered institutions, independent verification, open publication standards, and tenure. None of them work perfectly, but again - these has to be compared to what is done by other sources.


If the authors of the paper are going to invoke the Tobacco industry analogy, which they did, then it's worth taking the analogy they themselves used and seeing if the particular framing they presented is a good match to the phenomena they are discussing.

The only purpose of raising the point at all is that it's fairly self-evident that the people who are arguing for transparency in government reporting, want to conduct independent analysis of data, and argue for individual rights & freedoms to make informed medical choices doesn't map very well onto people who were being paid by BigTobacco so they could sell more product. However the authors of this paper are being paid to produce work which utilizes numerous nonscientific rhetorical tactics (highly colored language, appeal to authority, non-sequitur, biased framing, etc) to undermine the credibility of independent researchers without actually demonstrating flaws with the analyses they may have generated. This type of generalized endeavor is fundamentally rhetorical, not scientific.

OK, you're talking about the human-computer interaction paper linked below from Ghostmaker. I've now gone through a bunch of it, though I haven't read it completely. I'd prefer to stay on the general issues rather than get too far into just this one paper, but I'll give my two cents.

But muh science.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2101.07993.pdf

I can't tell if I'm being punked, or if this is a cry for help akin to POWs blinking Morse Code, or they're actually serious.

This paper itself is a serious work of propaganda. From the language constructions it uses ("anti-maskers"), to the ludicrous injection of "white supremacy" or the "attempted coup." WTF.

It's kind of stunning to see that even ostensibly intelligent people at MIT have no self-reflection in a paper like this. They can invoke something like the Tobacco industry and how it obfuscated the harmful impact of its products for decades, failing to see they themselves are now the ones who acting as the tools of the big Money/Power interests and their work is directly targeted against the type people who eventually revealed that Tobacco industry had been cooking the books.

Overall, I agree with you. The qualitative side of this paper is clearly biased - especially in that there is an "Anti-Mask Discourse Analysis" section but no "Pro-Mask Discourse Analysis". Thus, there isn't any comparative reflection to show whether pro-mask people are any more rational than anti-mask people. That said, I don't see any reason to think the paper is propaganda or corrupt per se. It's hugely biased, but I suspect the authors genuinely believe in their view - i.e. they would say the same thing even if the government wasn't paying them.

I was a bit surprised at some of the overtly political asides in it, like the "coup" reference. Then again, this is a conference paper, which I think mean it's not peer-reviewed research but an adaptation of a talk.

I have pretty low expectations of non-peer-reviewed social science papers. Mainstream social sciences are a step above cultural studies and gender studies, but not by a lot.