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Author Topic: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!  (Read 16116 times)

HappyDaze

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Re: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!
« Reply #45 on: April 09, 2021, 06:08:41 AM »
Overwhelmingly, both scientists and governments agree that covid-19 has more lethal power than a nasty cold, and that vaccination against it is a good idea.

More lethal power than a nasty cold for who?

If you are 80 years old.
I am aware of at least seven healthcare workers that I have worked alongside that have died in the last year from Covid. The youngest was 36, the oldest 61. These are people that I knew by name and interacted with, not just names on a list. In the case of three of them, I have met their families as well. I am only aware of one similar death in the last 10 years from the flu (back in 2016), and none from a cold in that time.

Garry G

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Re: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!
« Reply #46 on: April 09, 2021, 06:28:02 AM »
Is say the same of you. Looking at many governments reactions to covid I just don't see your thesis at work. You're presenting stuff as self-evident in the hope that people will accept it and just go along. Anecdotal evidence on what any government does is all there really is in this situation. I'm sorry that I can't accept your rather airy fairy assertions as something handed down from on high.
Then how do you address general tendencies or human behavior? Say it doesn't happen unless you have objective proof and no contradicting evidence? That's not a functional stand. We can talk about motivations and tendencies, disagree with them, and critique them; those are all valid. But you're simply dismissing them using standards that throw away the possibility of even discussing them.

At some point claims to general tendencies have to be tested against real world examples. If the claims are made in a conversation about a specific thing then they should be tested against it.

Pat
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Re: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!
« Reply #47 on: April 09, 2021, 09:42:00 AM »
Is say the same of you. Looking at many governments reactions to covid I just don't see your thesis at work. You're presenting stuff as self-evident in the hope that people will accept it and just go along. Anecdotal evidence on what any government does is all there really is in this situation. I'm sorry that I can't accept your rather airy fairy assertions as something handed down from on high.
Then how do you address general tendencies or human behavior? Say it doesn't happen unless you have objective proof and no contradicting evidence? That's not a functional stand. We can talk about motivations and tendencies, disagree with them, and critique them; those are all valid. But you're simply dismissing them using standards that throw away the possibility of even discussing them.

At some point claims to general tendencies have to be tested against real world examples. If the claims are made in a conversation about a specific thing then they should be tested against it.
I don't have any problem with that statement in general, but anecdotes are a poor stand-in for statistics. When we're talking about the Brownian motion of large groups of human-particles, the test should involve looking at the aggregate behavior of the crowd, not looking for outliers.

Garry G

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Re: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!
« Reply #48 on: April 09, 2021, 10:26:22 AM »
Is say the same of you. Looking at many governments reactions to covid I just don't see your thesis at work. You're presenting stuff as self-evident in the hope that people will accept it and just go along. Anecdotal evidence on what any government does is all there really is in this situation. I'm sorry that I can't accept your rather airy fairy assertions as something handed down from on high.
Then how do you address general tendencies or human behavior? Say it doesn't happen unless you have objective proof and no contradicting evidence? That's not a functional stand. We can talk about motivations and tendencies, disagree with them, and critique them; those are all valid. But you're simply dismissing them using standards that throw away the possibility of even discussing them.

At some point claims to general tendencies have to be tested against real world examples. If the claims are made in a conversation about a specific thing then they should be tested against it.
I don't have any problem with that statement in general, but anecdotes are a poor stand-in for statistics. When we're talking about the Brownian motion of large groups of human-particles, the test should involve looking at the aggregate behavior of the crowd, not looking for outliers.

Claims of general tendencies of state actors are a poor substitute for the actual actions of a given state. The way an actual government governs Trumps any theorising.

Pat
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Re: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!
« Reply #49 on: April 09, 2021, 10:36:59 AM »
Claims of general tendencies of state actors are a poor substitute for the actual actions of a given state. The way an actual government governs Trumps any theorising.
Then you just end up with a list of actions, without an explanation for those actions. But I think we've probably drifted too far into making general statements about general statements.

This Guy
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Re: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!
« Reply #50 on: April 09, 2021, 10:52:28 AM »
Overwhelmingly, both scientists and governments agree that covid-19 has more lethal power than a nasty cold, and that vaccination against it is a good idea.

More lethal power than a nasty cold for who?

If you are 80 years old.

The spouse I invented in my head has an immunodeficiency, so the vax at home is mandatory.

I just imagined that you got the vaccine so your spouse is going to be OK!

So this is the power of role-playing..
I don't want to play with you.

Garry G

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Re: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!
« Reply #51 on: April 09, 2021, 11:07:37 AM »
Claims of general tendencies of state actors are a poor substitute for the actual actions of a given state. The way an actual government governs Trumps any theorising.
Then you just end up with a list of actions, without an explanation for those actions. But I think we've probably drifted too far into making general statements about general statements.

I'd argue that a discussion about actual actions is more productive than ivory Tower thinking about how we think states act. I also agree that we're talking in circles.

jhkim

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Re: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!
« Reply #52 on: April 09, 2021, 02:08:36 PM »
Overwhelmingly, both scientists and governments agree that covid-19 has more lethal power than a nasty cold, and that vaccination against it is a good idea.

More lethal power than a nasty cold for who?

If you are 80 years old.

More lethal power than a nasty cold for everyone. covid-19 is extremely deadly to seniors, but it's still severe and sometimes deadly to adults of any age - much more lethal than the common cold in every age bracket. We don't even need to consider classification that is disputed. Just look at the overall mortality of 2020 compared to other years. The under-65 group still has a very elevated mortality. There are a huge number of increased deaths.


Source: https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

This is shown as a percentage compared to previous years. As a percentage, the rate has gone up highly for all age ranges. The absolute lethality of covid is highest for 85+, but they already have a high death rate.

Pat
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Re: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!
« Reply #53 on: April 09, 2021, 02:41:17 PM »
We don't even need to consider classification that is disputed. Just look at the overall mortality of 2020 compared to other years. The under-65 group still has a very elevated mortality. There are a huge number of increased deaths.
Funny how an elevated death rate corresponds with a surge of homicides, suicides, deaths of despair, and people avoiding hospitals and thus not catching diseases early enough or missing treatments.

Melichor

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Re: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!
« Reply #54 on: April 09, 2021, 03:59:11 PM »
Source: https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

Do you have any links to the raw data?
Because I doubt that the site you are citing is unbiased and without an agenda.

This Guy
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Re: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!
« Reply #55 on: April 09, 2021, 04:33:36 PM »
Source: https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

Do you have any links to the raw data?
Because I doubt that the site you are citing is unbiased and without an agenda.

Also biased based on collection method.
I don't want to play with you.

jhkim

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Re: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!
« Reply #56 on: April 09, 2021, 04:58:11 PM »
Source: https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

Do you have any links to the raw data?
Because I doubt that the site you are citing is unbiased and without an agenda.

Sure. The data is collected in an open-source project that I link below. You can examine the sources for various countries, which links to the sources. The ultimate source for the U.S. data is the CDC. Here's the open-source project:

https://github.com/akarlinsky/world_mortality

Here's the CDC page on the mortality data:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm


I presented for the U.S. - but there is data for many different countries. Note that the mortality rates for different countries vary significantly, but essentially *all* countries agree that covid-19 is a deadly pandemic with a death rate much higher than the common cold or the flu. That goes from Brazil to Italy to Sweden to Israel to South Korea.

It would be a remarkable feat of international cooperation if all of these countries were to get their scientists in line and have them report a hoax for political reasons, given their differing politics.

Shasarak

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Re: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!
« Reply #57 on: April 09, 2021, 05:10:34 PM »
Overwhelmingly, both scientists and governments agree that covid-19 has more lethal power than a nasty cold, and that vaccination against it is a good idea.

More lethal power than a nasty cold for who?

If you are 80 years old.
I am aware of at least seven healthcare workers that I have worked alongside that have died in the last year from Covid. The youngest was 36, the oldest 61. These are people that I knew by name and interacted with, not just names on a list. In the case of three of them, I have met their families as well. I am only aware of one similar death in the last 10 years from the flu (back in 2016), and none from a cold in that time.

What about the people that you were not aware of?  How many of them died from the Flu?
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Shasarak

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Re: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!
« Reply #58 on: April 09, 2021, 05:29:46 PM »
Overwhelmingly, both scientists and governments agree that covid-19 has more lethal power than a nasty cold, and that vaccination against it is a good idea.

More lethal power than a nasty cold for who?

If you are 80 years old.

More lethal power than a nasty cold for everyone. covid-19 is extremely deadly to seniors, but it's still severe and sometimes deadly to adults of any age - much more lethal than the common cold in every age bracket. We don't even need to consider classification that is disputed. Just look at the overall mortality of 2020 compared to other years. The under-65 group still has a very elevated mortality. There are a huge number of increased deaths.


Source: https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

This is shown as a percentage compared to previous years. As a percentage, the rate has gone up highly for all age ranges. The absolute lethality of covid is highest for 85+, but they already have a high death rate.

According to my sources the mean weekly death rate was 11% lower during 2020 then compared to the 2015-2019 average.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32647-7/fulltext
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pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

GeekyBugle

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Re: Please post your selfies with proof of vaccination!
« Reply #59 on: April 09, 2021, 05:38:25 PM »
Overwhelmingly, both scientists and governments agree that covid-19 has more lethal power than a nasty cold, and that vaccination against it is a good idea.

More lethal power than a nasty cold for who?

If you are 80 years old.

More lethal power than a nasty cold for everyone. covid-19 is extremely deadly to seniors, but it's still severe and sometimes deadly to adults of any age - much more lethal than the common cold in every age bracket. We don't even need to consider classification that is disputed. Just look at the overall mortality of 2020 compared to other years. The under-65 group still has a very elevated mortality. There are a huge number of increased deaths.


Source: https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

This is shown as a percentage compared to previous years. As a percentage, the rate has gone up highly for all age ranges. The absolute lethality of covid is highest for 85+, but they already have a high death rate.

Ages 15-64 but then it's separated by 10 years...

Me thinks this chart was crafted to inflate the number of the younger victims. To make it appear to the smoothbrains like people below 54 are just as much in danger as those above 55.

But then again I'm just a "conspiracy theorist" according to the left.
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