On the D6 System, LGS, and Reality

[Gabriel]

On the contrary, Wizards did well enough with D20 that it actually motivated Hasbro to buy them out, which is pretty fucking incredible.

I certainly don't claim to be an insider, but D20 was completely and utterly neglible in the decision of Hasbro to buy Wizards of the Coast.  I remember reading a couple of financial articles of the time, because it was a BIG deal, but not because of D20 or D&D.  It was a big deal solely because of Magic and Pokemon.  The value D&D has is as a brand name for videogames, not as a pen & paper game system, and I believe Hasbro Interactive already owned those rights at that point.  Wizards of the Coast was most certainly NOT acquired because of d20.

[Gabriel]

D6 isn't selling because most people decided it sucked donkey balls about seven years ago, and thus there is no demand for it.

D6 isn't selling all that well because RPGs in general don't sell for shit.

WEG is having financial troubles, but is apparrently still afloat.  That's certainly more than we can say for GoO.  Didn't GoO spend the last several years catering to the D20 audience?

OK, maybe that was a bit mean, but it's true.  Hopefully WEG will keep going.

Hellsreach seems OK, and he seems to have a genuine love for the hobby.  Why else would he support Torg?

[Mcrow]

I like d6 SW better than d20. Not to say d20 is bad system or the d20 SW is bad, but I like d6 better. As player I would prefer to play d6 SW.

If I were a retailer I would choose to carry d20 products to sell over d6. Fact is that d6 has such a small following that it doesn't pay to put it on the shelf. Out of the 10 or so game stores here in the Minneapolis area only 1 carries d6. That store (the Source) might be the biggest store in the midwest.

[Geek Messiah]

D6 isn't selling all that well because RPGs in general don't sell for shit.

WEG is having financial troubles, but is apparrently still afloat.  That's certainly more than we can say for GoO.  Didn't GoO spend the last several years catering to the D20 audience?

OK, maybe that was a bit mean, but it's true.  Hopefully WEG will keep going.

Hellsreach seems OK, and he seems to have a genuine love for the hobby.  Why else would he support Torg?

Right.  WEG is running into the same industry problems that every other game company is running into now.

There is a fan base for the new D6 and the system is quite improved over what it used to be.

[Geek Messiah]

I like d6 SW better than d20. Not to say d20 is bad system or the d20 SW is bad, but I like d6 better. As player I would prefer to play d6 SW.

If I were a retailer I would choose to carry d20 products to sell over d6. Fact is that d6 has such a small following that it doesn't pay to put it on the shelf. Out of the 10 or so game stores here in the Minneapolis area only 1 carries d6. That store (the Source) might be the biggest store in the midwest.

Both the game stores I have locally carry a bunch of D20 and do carry all the D6 products available for the new system.

I have considered running a couple of demos to get more people interested in the system because its a solid system.

Funny enough on RPG.net there was a discussion about Star Wars and many of the people who play SW D20 say that D6 did a better job at handling the genre (I agree).    Yes, even people who play the D20 version.   They play the D20 version most likely because its a popular system and it's probably easier to get a game started.

[Mcrow]

Both the game stores I have locally carry a bunch of D20 and do carry all the D6 products available for the new system.

I have considered running a couple of demos to get more people interested in the system because its a solid system.

Funny enough on RPG.net there was a discussion about Star Wars and many of the people who play SW D20 say that D6 did a better job at handling the genre (I agree).    Yes, even people who play the D20 version.   They play the D20 version most likely because its a popular system and it's probably easier to get a game started.

yeah, it is also my experience that most of the people who comment on SW prefered d6.

[Geek Messiah]

yeah, it is also my experience that most of the people who comment on SW prefered d6.

D6 SW is a great system.   I am supposed to be playing in a game that starts this month.   I can't wait to get started.

[Spike]

yeah, it is also my experience that most of the people who comment on SW prefered d6.

Ah... the typical democratic fallacy. Equating the most vocal segment of the population with the most popular.  D20 SW fans don't feel the need to be vocal, they have their cake and are currently eating it, its the d6 SW fans that  are bitching about not having any... because they don't have any.:pundit:

[Caesar Slaad]

There's also the "don't where your away team shirt in the home team section" factor. RPGnet has a long history of D6 SW loving members vitrolically ripping on d20. I used to engage them, but I eventually got tired of it and eventually participating in SW threads on RPGnet has become a license for a headache.

[Geek Messiah]

There's also the "don't where your away team shirt in the home team section" factor. RPGnet has a long history of D6 SW loving members vitrolically ripping on d20. I used to engage them, but I eventually got tired of it and eventually participating in SW threads on RPGnet has become a license for a headache.

Actually that is incorrect.   I have seen plenty of people who play D6 Star Wars who dont rip on the the D20 version.  They just prefer it.

I know people who play both and like the D6 version better.

[Geek Messiah]

Ah... the typical democratic fallacy. Equating the most vocal segment of the population with the most popular.  D20 SW fans don't feel the need to be vocal, they have their cake and are currently eating it, its the d6 SW fans that  are bitching about not having any... because they don't have any.:pundit:

These were people who play the D20 version who also said they prefered the D6 version but play both.

Nice try but there is a large D6 SW fan base out there.   Just as there are people who have played both and prefer the D20 version :cool:

[Caesar Slaad]

Actually that is incorrect.   I have seen plenty of people who play D6 Star Wars who dont rip on the the D20 version.  They just prefer it.

I fail to see how anything I said contradicts this, so am uncertain what you think is incorrect. I wasn't saying that the type of poster you speak of does not exist. The type of poster I speak of certainly exists.

If you'd like historical evidence of the frothing flamage of d20 SW by D6 SW fan or RPGnet, I can throw you a page or two of links.

[Mcrow]

Ah... the typical democratic fallacy. Equating the most vocal segment of the population with the most popular.  D20 SW fans don't feel the need to be vocal, they have their cake and are currently eating it, its the d6 SW fans that  are bitching about not having any... because they don't have any.:pundit:

I didn't say that this was accurate. That is why I added IME to my statement.  If you look around on all of the RPG sites (barring WotC own forums) most of the posters seem to like d6 better than d20. Everyone knows that all of the folks who post on rpg forum account for less than 1% of all role-players.

[Spike]

These were people who play the D20 version who also said they prefered the D6 version but play both.

Nice try but there is a large D6 SW fan base out there.   Just as there are people who have played both and prefer the D20 version :cool:

Alas, I said nothing regarding the size of any fanbase. Fact: SW d20 is supported by the industry, if poorly. SW d6 is not, due to legalities, it never will be again. Thus the d6 crowd has a reason to bitch about the d20 crowd, the d20 crowd has no reason to bitch about the d6 crowd.  Equating the presence of bitchy people with 'more popular' is fallacious.

Arguing against me on any other point is attacking the air, for I am not there...

[RPGPundit]

In the real world, as opposed to the online Fora, D20 SW is a vastly more popular system.

RPGPundit