I ran across this steaming pile of a website and oh god the horror.
http://buriedwithoutceremony.com/
There are some truly atrocious games in here. Im not sure whats more depressing the shitty ideas on some of these games or the fact that many of the games had a good idea at there core boged down by storygaming bullshit. THAT FUCKING TEEN WITCH THING IS NOT EVEN A FUCKING GAME.
Theres a fucking storygame about roadtrips if i want to do a roadtrip i can take pretty much any system and use that hell most of the time you wont even need to crack open the rulebook for a roadtrip.
how do these people think this sort of shit is a good idea.
Oh my, some people somewhere with absolutely no impact in my gaming whatsoever are playing games I do not like. Woe is me.
Diversity is good. I don't give a single fuck about any of those games and, in fact, they look all terrible to me. But if someone enjoys them, more power to them.
More games is good. More people gaming is better.
Oh my, some people somewhere with absolutely no impact in my gaming whatsoever are playing games I do not like. Woe is me.
Diversity is good. I don't give a single fuck about any of those games and, in fact, they look all terrible to me. But if someone enjoys them, more power to them.
More games is good. More people gaming is better.
Well, at least you posted this in an appropriate forum, as I think only Pundit is left wanting to wage the War on Terr- Swine.
I've seen Monsterhearts discussed on TBP quite a few times. It seems to be at least mildly popular and currently one of the games that has their nod for handling sex in an rpg right.
Whatever the Hell that means.
But its a popular genre so I can understand a rpg being developed for it and a more narrative style makes sense.
While I believe in the freedom of individuals to bascially do as they will, I personally find Monsterhearts to be pretty disturbing.
It is about predatory underage sexuality. I do not see the appeal of playing a game in which everyone takes on the role of a teen with a "sex move" power. Given the monsters as metaphors thing, non-consensual activity is heavily implied. Now, I'm not going to be too hypocritical because I've played plenty of V:tM but this is pretty twisted in my opinion.
I'm a very tolerant man when it comes to people and ideas, but do you really want to be in a circle of dudes roleplaying about teen sex and/or rape? If somebody asked what your game was about what would you tell them? Not for me.
Quote from: Nexus;823411I've seen Monsterhearts discussed on TBP quite a few times. It seems to be at least mildly popular and currently one of the games that has their nod for handling sex in an rpg right.
Whatever the Hell that means.
That people they like play it or wrote it.
Quote from: TheFailedSave;823416I'm a very tolerant man when it comes to people and ideas, but do you really want to be in a circle of dudes roleplaying about teen sex and/or rape?
Not everyone plays in a circle of dudes...just saying.
I must admit still being curious about running Ribbon Drive. That said, seeing the actual product on the shelf and reading it in store left me sad. I was contemplating paying $5 for what seemed as convoluted as how to start a proper mahjongg game, determining which Wind goes first, which Wind's Wall to break first, and where to break it... underwhelming. Like it got lost in how to take turns with the Speaking Stick instead of the game's pitch.
That said the premise of 'Road Trip Mix Tape Melodrama' the game still cloys at my sensibilities. Probably because I want to throw in Pantera, Vivaldi, and Dee-Lite in the mix and see what explodes as the result.
I'm running Blades in the Dark right now, and it's a) undoubtedly a storygame, whatever that means, since it's a *World variant, and b) probably the funnest RPG experience my group has had in a long time. And you're talking about folks who, for somebody's birthday, ran ToEE in AD&D again for nostalgia from our teens.
At this point, I don't give a shit, so long as we're having fun.
Quote from: TheFailedSave;823416While I believe in the freedom of individuals to bascially do as they will, I personally find Monsterhearts to be pretty disturbing.
It is about predatory underage sexuality. I do not see the appeal of playing a game in which everyone takes on the role of a teen with a "sex move" power. Given the monsters as metaphors thing, non-consensual activity is heavily implied. Now, I'm not going to be too hypocritical because I've played plenty of V:tM but this is pretty twisted in my opinion.
I'm a very tolerant man when it comes to people and ideas, but do you really want to be in a circle of dudes roleplaying about teen sex and/or rape? If somebody asked what your game was about what would you tell them? Not for me.
That game is designed by someone on the
Approved List of Game Authors [
TM], so its fine. :rolleyes:
Quote from: tuypo1;823398There are some truly atrocious games in here.
Meh, seem like your standard, narrowly-focused storygames to me. But, I don't get a burning sensation looking at the site.
Interesting quote from the designer:
Quote from: Buried without CeremonyWho are these games for? ... They're for all the sketchy punks who would rather reclaim storytelling than let some impersonal man behind some impersonal screen write their media for them.
Fucking
impersonal GMs with their impersonalability. The bastards.
Quotehow do these people think this sort of shit is a good idea.
Probably when they make some spare cash selling them, and get buzz from gaming forums that further increase their sales?
Quote from: K Peterson;823450Interesting quote from the designer:
Fucking impersonal GMs with their impersonalability. The bastards.
I don't know; 'screen' is such an equivocal term that it could be an anti-electronic, anti-corporate, 'fight The Man'/punk statement without any change.
Quote from: K Peterson;823450Meh, seem like your standard, narrowly-focused storygames to me. But, I don't get a burning sensation looking at the site.
Apparently you're not fucking the wrong story games. Its all that "fucking storygame" stuff tuypo is doing that is giving him that burning sensation down there.
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;823452I don't know; 'screen' is such an equivocal term that it could be an anti-electronic, anti-corporate, 'fight The Man'/punk statement without any change.
When applied to the minor niche hobby that is TTRPGs there really isn't any way to take 'fight The Man' seriously though.
Fucking poseurs. Who's The Man? You's The Man.
Quote from: Bren;823454When applied to the minor niche hobby that is TTRPGs there really isn't any way to take 'fight The Man' seriously though.
Again, if one takes 'screen' as 'computer/video screen', then it acquires a different and more plausible meaning. Only having read the snippet reposted here, I can't be sure if it's anti-traditional RPG or anti-electronic, prepackaged, corporate entertainment.
I have run plenty of road trip RPGs...but mine are inspired by the Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
Quote from: TheFailedSave;823416It is about predatory underage sexuality.
So is Romeo and Juliet. There's something in the human psyche those themes of "master" and "slave", "sex experienced" vs. "sex novice" cause people to respond to, aka the phenomenal success of Twilight and Fifty Shades of Spank.
It's been explored forever in books, songs, movies and plays, so I don't see the big deal with those themes in a RPG. Not something I would play, but I can see where it may have an audience.
Quote from: Future Villain Band;823439At this point, I don't give a shit, so long as we're having fun.
Fun? You dare to have "fun" when you could be experiencing Meaning???
How dare you good sir! I say good day to you!
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;823470Again, if one takes 'screen' as 'computer/video screen', then it acquires a different and more plausible meaning. Only having read the snippet reposted here, I can't be sure if it's anti-traditional RPG or anti-electronic, prepackaged, corporate entertainment.
Both?
Oh, I am so morbidly curious about the circonstances of the discovery by tuypo1 of Avery Mcdaldno's website ! She is quite old news since she released Monsterhearts in 2012 but maybe you wre not after novelty.
For what I see, she seems quite harmless and does not seem to participate in the outrage du jour brouahaha which drives many indie story games community members.
Quote from: Spinachcat;823476So is Romeo and Juliet.
What was predatory about Romeo and Juliet?
The funniest part to me is what they no doubt imagine to be a battle cry, but really reads more like a desperate struggle against reality, in their motto "games that MEAN something!"
I guess "I'm a ridiculous pretentious fuckwit without the talent or discipline to make anything actually meaningful" is a kind of 'meaning'...
Quote from: everloss;823562What was predatory about Romeo and Juliet?
The statutory rape. Juliet is 14 years old.
Quote from: TheFailedSave;823416While I believe in the freedom of individuals to bascially do as they will, I personally find Monsterhearts to be pretty disturbing.
It is about predatory underage sexuality. I do not see the appeal of playing a game in which everyone takes on the role of a teen with a "sex move" power. Given the monsters as metaphors thing, non-consensual activity is heavily implied. Now, I'm not going to be too hypocritical because I've played plenty of V:tM but this is pretty twisted in my opinion.
I'm a very tolerant man when it comes to people and ideas, but do you really want to be in a circle of dudes roleplaying about teen sex and/or rape? If somebody asked what your game was about what would you tell them? Not for me.
eh that really does not bother me teenagers will have sex its what they do and at that age its really no longer pedophilia.
Quote from: Bren;823597The statutory rape. Juliet is 14 years old.
And in the era it's based in, she would have been married already.
But context never matters, right?
Quote from: Warboss Squee;823608And in the era it's based in, she would have been married already.
But context never matters, right?
Don't be an ass. She had sex at 14 before marriage. That wasn't really acceptable for a noble young lady in Shakespeare's time. And that's pretty comparable to Monster Hearts where teenage monsters have sex or eat each other or whatever it is PCs do in the game that their dads and moms might not find acceptable.
And contextually, I've been looking at bios for nobles from the 16th and 17th centuries and it's surprising how rare 14 year old marriages of noble women actually are. Most are in their late teens or twenties and many of the first childbirths are in their twenties or early to mid thirties. Which is not hugely different than marriage and births in the USA.
Quote from: Bren;823417Not everyone plays in a circle of dudes...just saying.
I was making an international generalization. My small group is actually female by majority, I'm the only regularly attending male member at this time.
Two of those members read or skimmed the book when I bought it on an impulse (I love vampires and monster mash stuff.) Their conclusions about the game were even more negative than mine. In fact I remember hearing my fiance mentioning that in order to gain "strings" and advantages that a particular monster type would have to have as much sex as possible, consensual or not.
As I said before, don't really care what others do if it harms nobody other than themselves. However, I would rather not play RPG's at all than play this particular slice of weirdness. Please note that I'm not dissing games that use the same rules, I'm commenting on this particular item.
Quote from: TheFailedSave;823640I was making an international generalization. My small group is actually female by majority, I'm the only regularly attending male member at this time.
Two of those members read or skimmed the book when I bought it on an impulse (I love vampires and monster mash stuff.) Their conclusions about the game were even more negative than mine.
That just makes it more odd that you used a generalization that doesn't even apply to your group. The premise of Monsterhearts doesn't sound like something I want to play either. But I think your comment on the gender of the group is just a distraction from any discussion of why the premise might or might not appeal.
I'm still unclear on where the burning is, or what part of tuypo is burning. :-)
As for the games, I've played Monsterhearts three times, The Quiet Year twice, and a sort-of playtest version of Dream Askew. None of these is a favorite for me, but I had fun and I'm glad I tried them.
As for the complaint about Monsterhearts - I don't see it. It is nothing like, say, Maid, which I thoroughly object to. Teenagers lie to each other, flirt, turn each other on, occasionally have sex, and then betray each other. That's normal, and what my games of Monsterhearts reflected.
My Monsterhearts groups were all mixed-gender, but I wouldn't have a problem playing with a group of guys. Some people don't like that, and that's fine, but I don't think there's anything objectively wrong playing with a bunch of guys that wouldn't be with a mixed group or a group of girls.
I'm not feeling the burn either... I can see several games on there that look like fun experiments. I haven't got much interest in Monsterhearts... but The Quiet Year sounds interesting and I downloaded Perfect Unrevised, Dream Askew and Crypt Community... which is a cute idea, running a dungeon ala Sim-City (it's actually a lot more basic than that... but free).
It's important to differentiate marriage between nobles and sex within those marriage. Political marriages and consummation of those marriages could be years apart.
Quote from: everloss;823562What was predatory about Romeo and Juliet?
It's an amazingly fucked up tale. Since much of the subtext is outside modern culture and since we are removed from the original language, Romeo and Juliet is seen today as a Disney romance, instead of a nasty tragedy.
Much of R&J is about adults twisting the minds of naive teens and how the "romantic ideals" spouted by adults led to the death of the naive teens, and even in death, the adults don't recognize their effect of their actions. Big Willy Shakenbake was surprisingly cynical about his own time. Juliet was a warning, not a role model.
I remember doing the breakdown in college and wondering WTF??? It always shocked me how much language changed in 400 years and how even the same words were viewed differently through the prism of the period.
monsterhearts is probably the best game there my complaints were really mostly about all the other games.
Quote from: tuypo1;823665monsterhearts is probably the best game there my complaints were really mostly about all the other games.
But it seems an odd thing to complain about... like going into a someone's restaurant and complaining because there is a ham sandwich on the menu and you don't feel like eating a ham sandwich.
None of the games seem transgressive or confrontational... just experimental, kinda artsy. Some more interesting, to me, than others.
Quote from: Bren;823643That just makes it more odd that you used a generalization that doesn't even apply to your group. The premise of Monsterhearts doesn't sound like something I want to play either. But I think your comment on the gender of the group is just a distraction from any discussion of why the premise might or might not appeal.
I don't think you got it. I was making a generalization like "hey, guys" or "what's happenin' dudes?" It may have been a subconscious thing as I do believe that playing a game about teenage sexuality with a group of men would be pretty creepy for sure. To be fair, our hobby is vastly dominated by men. Therefore, I don't think my geralization was really worthy of the irritation it apparently sparked. I believe you are the one who has created the distraction by getting hung up on the wording that I happened to use.
The Quiet Year is pretty neat. I've used a shortened version of it at the start of two different campaigns; one was D&D, the other Dungeon World. We used it to collaborately create the starting village (and its troubles) during character creation.
Lots of fun and it got the players invested in the setting (because they helped to create it). Also, I'm a lazy GM and a ton of stuff was generated for me without much effort and lots of beer, chips and good company.
Next time, though, I'll be using the system in the latest expansion for Beyond the Wall.
well i seem to be in the minority here
still i assume we can all agree that teen witch is bullshit
I've heard good things about Monster hearts and the quiet year.
Quote from: tuypo1;823718still i assume we can all agree that teen witch is bullshit
I'm not sure how a Wiccan might feel about it but it seems harmless to me... kind of like 'Pretend you're a pony... go prance in a field' or 'Here's how to pretend you're a princess.'
Not my thing but I doubt I'm the sort who was in mind when it was written.
Storygame outrage? Whew, what a relief! Sure sign that a week's gone by without SJW drama (the State of Indiana kerfuffle notwithstanding).
Quote from: The Butcher;823782Storygame outrage? Whew, what a relief! Sure sign that a week's gone by without SJW drama (the State of Indiana kerfuffle notwithstanding).
I think its more puzzlement than outrage.
Quote from: Bren;823624Don't be an ass. She had sex at 14 before marriage. That wasn't really acceptable for a noble young lady in Shakespeare's time. And that's pretty comparable to Monster Hearts where teenage monsters have sex or eat each other or whatever it is PCs do in the game that their dads and moms might not find acceptable.
And contextually, I've been looking at bios for nobles from the 16th and 17th centuries and it's surprising how rare 14 year old marriages of noble women actually are. Most are in their late teens or twenties and many of the first childbirths are in their twenties or early to mid thirties. Which is not hugely different than marriage and births in the USA.
"wasn't really acceptable" in no fucking way possible equates with "statutory rape". Age of consent in that era was 12 or something, and the issue with Juliet was that she hooked up with a dude from a rival house. Are you trying to project something specific here?
Quote from: jhkim;823654I'm still unclear on where the burning is, or what part of tuypo is burning. :-)
Yeah, I clicked the link expecting something seriously fucked up, but ended up with a collection of mildly banal games, the most offensive of which appears to be Twilight the RPG.
QuoteAs for the complaint about Monsterhearts - I don't see it.
Not so much the game itself, but the hypocrisy of many of those cooing over it when it comes to games they don't like is palpable.
Quote from: Doctor Jest;823792Not so much the game itself, but the hypocrisy of many of those cooing over it when it comes to games they don't like is palpable.
This ! It burns a thousand times more than anything in the site linked in the OP.
Quote from: Brad;823787Are you trying to project something specific here?
No. Are you?
nobody is projecting ok
I've played The Quiet Year twice and had fun both times. That said, it's so far removed from traditional RPGs that it's not even a storygame IMO.