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Author Topic: NYT: don't think critically!  (Read 540 times)

Samsquantch

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Re: NYT: don't think critically!
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2021, 01:31:52 PM »
As I have remarked before, now that a Democrat is in office dissent is now suddenly unpatriotic.

Funny how so many things went 180 degrees once Biden got in.

shuddemell

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Re: NYT: don't think critically!
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2021, 01:51:51 PM »
The correct assessment isn't to put even more trust in mainstream sources, and to ignore fringe sources. No, the correct assessment is to treat Stormfront as garbage, but to also to downgrade our assessment of the reliability of mainstream sources.

This is a bad result. It doesn't get us to true answer any more reliably. It means it's really hard to know what's true anymore, because the media is untrustworthy. But that's the world we live in, and pretending otherwise is buying into an illusion.

Saying "don't believe anything", though, is effectively just saying "believe your preconceptions". I think that just intensifies the trend of people believing in whatever fits their political beliefs.
I'm not saying believe your preconceptions. What I'm saying is quite literally the opposite of "believe": I'm telling people to be a lot less certain about their conclusions.

On reflection, I agree about this. Too many people are completely hardened into their conclusions, especially because it fits their politics. It's hard to find anyone willing to discuss political issues with an open mind these days.

My concern is that the message of not trusting media won't make people less certain of their conclusions and more open-minded. I suspect that many will take it as confirmation of their beliefs, and harden further.

The problem with your concern is that you seem to be implying that not trusting media is an irrational position. Because as many have noted here, MSM is getting less trustworthy by the day, and if their belief is that sources are biased against them, it would be literal proof that their beliefs are correct, which would justify hardening those beliefs. If media openly scorns, censors and tries to cancel you for dissent, there is no softening of beliefs that would accomplish anything other than getting you run over by the cancel mob. It's nice to counsel prudence when you are the ones targeting people, and not the ones being targeted, but it rings hollow to those on the receiving end of this abuse. The repair to this is beginning to hold media far more culpable for lies and obfuscation than is presently being done, but as you see, the current regime is trying to make their media cronies immune to any consequences.
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oggsmash

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Re: NYT: don't think critically!
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2021, 02:37:56 PM »
 I would also add, the author seems worried looking at stormfront or nutty conspiracies online is going to recruit otherwise middle of the line people to more radical positions.  I would put forth companies like coka cola pushing "try to be less white" critical race theory training to their employees will do A WHOLE LOT more to recruit people to positions to identify with their on race than the best lies stormfront or david duke could ever cook up.

jhkim

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Re: NYT: don't think critically!
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2021, 08:26:47 PM »
I'm not saying believe your preconceptions. What I'm saying is quite literally the opposite of "believe": I'm telling people to be a lot less certain about their conclusions.

On reflection, I agree about this. Too many people are completely hardened into their conclusions, especially because it fits their politics. It's hard to find anyone willing to discuss political issues with an open mind these days.

My concern is that the message of not trusting media won't make people less certain of their conclusions and more open-minded. I suspect that many will take it as confirmation of their beliefs, and harden further.

The problem with your concern is that you seem to be implying that not trusting media is an irrational position.

That's not at all what I said - and I explicitly said earlier to *not* trust media. And to confirm, I think that there is good reason to not trust media. In discussion here on Pundit's board, my disagreements with other posters are usually over others *believing* media, and me questioning it. I'll typically post about internal inconsistencies or contradiction in the sources, or pointing out quotes from within the source itself. I'll never post a left-leaning news source as an authority - at most posting something from Fox News or some local news source - along with official sources like court documents or FBI statistics.

Certainly in the recent political threads, I've mostly been criticized for being too skeptical of claims - not too trusting.


If media openly scorns, censors and tries to cancel you for dissent, there is no softening of beliefs that would accomplish anything other than getting you run over by the cancel mob. It's nice to counsel prudence when you are the ones targeting people, and not the ones being targeted, but it rings hollow to those on the receiving end of this abuse. The repair to this is beginning to hold media far more culpable for lies and obfuscation than is presently being done, but as you see, the current regime is trying to make their media cronies immune to any consequences.

I'm all for holding media more culpable for lies. I started a thread earlier on "What to do about social media corporations?"  It didn't seem like there was any unified conclusions on that.

Were there specific actions from the previous administration that held media more accountable? In general, I think media should be sued for false stories. That's the usual legal redress - though I'm open to other suggestions.