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Fan Forums => The RPGPundit's Own Forum => Topic started by: GeekyBugle on June 18, 2019, 08:04:46 PM

Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 18, 2019, 08:04:46 PM
By popular request (one single person :P) I'll try and keep you informed about what's happening in my country.

For starters, the new International Airport was cancelled and moved, this means we have to pay the investors without the airport and pay to build the new one in the new location. The new location is a Mexican Air-force base, smack next to a small mountain, so you can only approach and lift off in certain directions, which would play havoc with the traffic. Why was this done? To fuck the investors and the company building it.

Next, a high speed train is going to be built in the Yucatan peninsula, never mind not a single train of this type is economically self sufficient world wide, and the ticket price would be th same as going from there to the northern most part of the country by plain. Our beloved comrade leader prayed to the mother earth for permission.

Public day-care centers (all of them) were closed, because fuck the mexican families.

God knows how many thousands of criminals were pardoned and are now in our streets. Crime has skyrocketed.

300 public IMSS units were closed, our government says this won't impact the more vulnerable. Guess it will only fuck the rich people that go to private clinics and hospitals. Because reasons.

Our beloved comrade leader sent troops to our southern border, but they will not stop the invaders from flooding our country, and now Soros is flying Africans to México because he's such a good person.

1B mexican pesos will be dedicated to help the invaders while our poor don't know when they will eat again.

Next school year there will be no new textbooks for elementary school, they have already told the parents to save the books to give them to the children being promoted from the grade below.

Speaking of education, no kid can be expelled or get a non passing grade from 1st to 3rd year of elementary school, because fuck the quality of the public education (maybe even fuck the quality of private schools too).

The INE (National Electoral Institute) which is the (used to be) independent organism that organizes and supervises our elections is under attack by our beloved comrade leader and his croonies in our legislature.

Our supreme court has already been under attack for months now to discredit it for daring to oppose some of the brilliant ideas of the very stable genius of our beloved comrade leader.

Will keep you posted if something else happens or if I remember something else.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on June 19, 2019, 12:59:49 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1092654
For starters, the new International Airport was cancelled and moved, this means we have to pay the investors without the airport and pay to build the new one in the new location. The new location is a Mexican Air-force base, smack next to a small mountain, so you can only approach and lift off in certain directions, which would play havoc with the traffic. Why was this done? To fuck the investors and the company building it.


If Mexico has to pay the investors, how are they fucked?

Where was it supposed to be built? Where is the Air Force base?


Quote from: GeekyBugle;1092654
Next, a high speed train is going to be built in the Yucatan peninsula, never mind not a single train of this type is economically self sufficient world wide, and the ticket price would be th same as going from there to the northern most part of the country by plain.


Would the train be for freight?

We have a similar high speed train debacle in California where "high speed" keeps getting lowered so both the cost and the time spent are being calculated as higher cost / far longer time than just flying.

Also, the quoted price for the "train to nowhere" keeps going up with more and more billions.

But I'd like to see California have a real high speed system. I love Elon Musk's high speed tube idea.


Quote from: GeekyBugle;1092654
Our beloved comrade leader prayed to the mother earth for permission.


Explain!!!


Quote from: GeekyBugle;1092654
Public day-care centers (all of them) were closed, because fuck the mexican families.


Holy shit!

Was the day care free or low cost? How did the public day care compare to private day care?


Quote from: GeekyBugle;1092654
God knows how many thousands of criminals were pardoned and are now in our streets. Crime has skyrocketed.


Explain!! Why was there a mass pardoning?


Quote from: GeekyBugle;1092654
300 public IMSS units were closed, our government says this won't impact the more vulnerable. Guess it will only fuck the rich people that go to private clinics and hospitals. Because reasons.


In the USA, we heard a bit about your last elections, but IIRC I remember the guy who won was supposedly all about increasing medical support for the poor. Which surprises me about the day cares closing too. I thought he was supposed to be a populist for the poor.


Quote from: GeekyBugle;1092654
Our beloved comrade leader sent troops to our southern border, but they will not stop the invaders from flooding our country, and now Soros is flying Africans to México because he's such a good person.


Why won't the troops hold the southern border?

Do you have evidence Soros is flying Africans into Mexico? That's a big statement.


Quote from: GeekyBugle;1092654
1B mexican pesos will be dedicated to help the invaders while our poor don't know when they will eat again.


California's governor just promised free healthcare to illegal aliens, but the 36,000 homeless are ignored.

It's such a bad joke. We have millions of LEGAL Mexican-American citizens, but the freebies are only for those who rush across the border.


Quote from: GeekyBugle;1092654
Next school year there will be no new textbooks for elementary school, they have already told the parents to save the books to give them to the children being promoted from the grade below.


Recycling! It's the Green Education Plan!!

Although, I do support schools re-using textbooks year to year. That used to be defacto for most US schools, but textbooks became big business.


Quote from: GeekyBugle;1092654
Speaking of education, no kid can be expelled or get a non passing grade from 1st to 3rd year of elementary school, because fuck the quality of the public education (maybe even fuck the quality of private schools too).


LOL. California now has no suspensions for behavior through 8th grade and its jumping to 12th grade in a couple of years. We also nuked our high school testing requirements for graduation.  


Quote from: GeekyBugle;1092654
The INE (National Electoral Institute) which is the (used to be) independent organism that organizes and supervises our elections is under attack by our beloved comrade leader and his croonies in our legislature.


Explain?
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: HappyDaze on June 19, 2019, 01:01:27 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1092654
Will keep you posted if something else happens or if I remember something else.

Links would make these more interesting to me. Preferably links to stories in English, but Spanish is OK too.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 19, 2019, 01:32:18 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1092709
If Mexico has to pay the investors, how are they fucked?

Where was it supposed to be built? Where is the Air Force base?


The investors are fucked because they get their money back but no more, they don't benefit from their inversion
It was to be built where the Texcoco lake used to be, now it's in another part of the same state but to the north of Mexico City Santa Lucia Air-Force base.


Quote from: Spinachcat;1092709
Would the train be for freight?


Nope, high speed tourist train

Quote from: Spinachcat;1092709
We have a similar high speed train debacle in California where "high speed" keeps getting lowered so both the cost and the time spent are being calculated as higher cost / far longer time than just flying.

Also, the quoted price for the "train to nowhere" keeps going up with more and more billions.


Not a single high speed train in the world is economically self sufficient, they all get subsidies from the government, even the japanese ones, and to build it they need to cut thru the Mayan Jungle, so very Green!

Quote from: Spinachcat;1092709
But I'd like to see California have a real high speed system. I love Elon Musk's high speed tube idea.


His idea of the hyperloop? I was first proposed about 100 years ago, he only gave it a new name, it will never be built and if it is it's a death trap, go watch Thunderf00t videos about it he explains the science and why it's shit.


Quote from: Spinachcat;1092709
Explain!!!


Lopez Obrador prayed to the mother earth for permission to build the train, literally.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1092709
Holy shit!

Was the day care free or low cost? How did the public day care compare to private day care?


"Free" payed by our taxes, guess the private ones are better but this ones were supposed to be for the less fortunate that couldn't afford the private ones.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1092709
Explain!! Why was there a mass pardoning?


Because they are "el pueblo bueno"? my best guess is because they are the proletariat? or to make room in our over crowded jails? Here you wait in prison to be judged, unless you have money, then anything is possible.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1092709
In the USA, we heard a bit about your last elections, but IIRC I remember the guy who won was supposedly all about increasing medical support for the poor. Which surprises me about the day cares closing too. I thought he was supposed to be a populist for the poor.


He told the poor that, he was and is a fucking commie, also as stupid as can be without being retarded, and he thinks himself smarter than everybody. He's thankfully loosing suport thanks to the day-care, hospitals and frontier. But it might be too late for us.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1092709
Why won't the troops hold the southern border?


Because they weren't ordered to.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1092709
Do you have evidence Soros is flying Africans into Mexico? That's a big statement.


Pueblos sin fronteras was and is financing the caravans, those Africans want to get into the USA, no I have no evidence but how does a poor African pay for a flight to México? If not Soros someone like him is financing the African invasion.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1092709
California's governor just promised free healthcare to illegal aliens, but the 36,000 homeless are ignored.

It's such a bad joke. We have millions of LEGAL Mexican-American citizens, but the freebies are only for those who rush across the border.


Yeah, the same our beloved comrade leader is gonna do.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1092709
Recycling! It's the Green Education Plan!!

Although, I do support schools re-using textbooks year to year. That used to be defacto for most US schools, but textbooks became big business.


I've seen your text books, my grandpa (don't ask me how) bought me one when I was 10 it was for a grade or two above me, read it and answered it anyway. Those books were made to last, our text books don't last a single school year. They are made of the cheapest materials and with the cheapest printers.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1092709
LOL. California now has no suspensions for behavior through 8th grade and its jumping to 12th grade in a couple of years. We also nuked our high school testing requirements for graduation.
 

Fuck, that's even worst than I thought you guys were.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1092709
Explain?


Here the PRI used to steal the elections, so one president ( one less of an asshole than the previous ones) created an independent institute to organize and supervise the elections and so guarantee the fairness, we also have to get our electoral ID in order to vote.

Well our beloved comrade leader and his flunkies in the legislature (his party has majority in both chambers) are tying to take control of said institute, I don't think they are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts but to rig the next elections and so perpetuate themselves in power.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 19, 2019, 01:33:01 AM
Quote from: HappyDaze;1092710
Links would make these more interesting to me. Preferably links to stories in English, but Spanish is OK too.

Will try and do so next time.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 19, 2019, 02:57:30 AM
Emergency state declared in the Yucatan peninsula because demand exceeds supply of electricity, and the stupid Greens and the stupid and beloved comrade leader are against more nuclear plants. https://amp.elfinanciero.com.mx/peninsula/peninsula-de-yucatan-en-emergencia-por-falta-de-electricidad-cenace?__twitter_impression=true
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on June 19, 2019, 04:16:40 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1092714
Pueblos sin fronteras was and is financing the caravans, those Africans want to get into the USA, no I have no evidence but how does a poor African pay for a flight to México? If not Soros someone like him is financing the African invasion.


Holy shit. I hadn't heard about African illegals coming through, but now we're busing them to Portland Maine with open arms!
Of course, we have massive homeless problem and cities full of poor actual citizens, but hey why not take in more illegals?
https://www.apnews.com/429f04067c38428ba0d06749b53e6df0


Quote from: GeekyBugle;1092714
Those books were made to last, our text books don't last a single school year. They are made of the cheapest materials and with the cheapest printers.


Recycled newsprint? Softcover POD style? I can see kids thrashing those in six months and wow, not much is gonna be left for year two.

 
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1092714
Fuck, that's even worst than I thought you guys were.

https://edsource.org/2017/california-joins-trend-among-states-to-abandon-high-school-exit-exam/588640

The USA is weird about school. We spend a fortune and we have impressive colleges, but our focus on K-12 education is half-assed at best.


Quote from: GeekyBugle;1092714
Well our beloved comrade leader and his flunkies in the legislature (his party has majority in both chambers) are tying to take control of said institute, I don't think they are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts but to rig the next elections and so perpetuate themselves in power.


If the USA didn't allow in millions of illegal aliens from Mexico, I suspect Mexico would have had a revolution by now against the string of corrupt Presidents during our lifetimes. But instead, the immigrants wanted to escape the disaster in Mexico and the USA wanted a perpetual flow of cheap labor to abuse.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Opaopajr on June 19, 2019, 08:29:28 AM
I look forward to our high speed rail connecting San Francisco to the Yúcatan. :) Only as long as Mother Earth says we can though. ;)
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 19, 2019, 11:24:15 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1092723
Holy shit. I hadn't heard about African illegals coming through, but now we're busing them to Portland Maine with open arms!
Of course, we have massive homeless problem and cities full of poor actual citizens, but hey why not take in more illegals?
https://www.apnews.com/429f04067c38428ba0d06749b53e6df0.

Yep, have you heard how people live up in the Ozarks I think? Imagine the poorest among you but not homeless, well here in México city we have (separated by just one street) McMansions to the right and huts made of cartoon boxes and recycled wood from pallets to the left. But hey, lets bring Africans who don't speak spanish, don't have any qualifications, God only knows what diseases they carry and give them work permits (have I mentioned our beloved comrade leader is gonna give the invaders work permits?) so they can compete with the poorest for the same jobs and drive the salaries down. Because we're left wing populists an we care about the poor!


Quote from: Spinachcat;1092723
Recycled newsprint? Softcover POD style? I can see kids thrashing those in six months and wow, not much is gonna be left for year two.

https://edsource.org/2017/california-joins-trend-among-states-to-abandon-high-school-exit-exam/588640 .

Softcover POD style, and it doesn't matter how careful the kid is with them, by years end the books are at the very least starting to come unglued and lose the covers.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1092723
The USA is weird about school. We spend a fortune and we have impressive colleges, but our focus on K-12 education is half-assed at best. .

Well our beloved comrade leader is talking about ditching admission exams altogether, never mind to what level, because fuck you and the years you spent to get your diploma, we're gonna make it worthless.


Quote from: Spinachcat;1092723
If the USA didn't allow in millions of illegal aliens from Mexico, I suspect Mexico would have had a revolution by now against the string of corrupt Presidents during our lifetimes. But instead, the immigrants wanted to escape the disaster in Mexico and the USA wanted a perpetual flow of cheap labor to abuse.

Yep, that's what allowed this shit to go on for as long as it has. Lets see how it works for them to fuck with the poorest in so many ways tho.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 19, 2019, 11:25:37 AM
Quote from: Opaopajr;1092730
I look forward to our high speed rail connecting San Francisco to the Yúcatan. :) Only as long as Mother Earth says we can though. ;)

Well be sure to pay a Mayan Shaman to guide you thru prayer.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Delete_me on June 19, 2019, 12:34:04 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1092714
Not a single high speed train in the world is economically self sufficient, they all get subsidies from the government, even the japanese ones, and to build it they need to cut thru the Mayan Jungle, so very Green!

Last I knew, and this may have changed, there are some high speed rails in Germany that have 0 government backing and are quite profitable.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 19, 2019, 01:03:23 PM
Quote from: Tanin Wulf;1092762
Last I knew, and this may have changed, there are some high speed rails in Germany that have 0 government backing and are quite profitable.

Thanks, will check it out because I didn't manage to find a single one last I investigated this.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Delete_me on June 19, 2019, 05:35:36 PM
I fully admit I could be wrong on that too! =)
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 19, 2019, 07:26:49 PM
Our beloved comrade leader to launch effort to create jobs in El Salvador (with mexican taxes of course) https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mexico-immigration-ebrard/mexico-to-launch-el-salvador-jobs-program-under-central-america-development-plan-idUSKCN1TK25F

Meanwhile in México Job generation fell 88% https://twitter.com/econokafka/status/1141391196885004288

Hopefully his followers open their eyes to how much they were tricked to vote for this traitor.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: HappyDaze on June 19, 2019, 07:32:31 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1092809
Our beloved comrade leader to launch effort to create jobs in El Salvador (with mexican taxes of course) https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mexico-immigration-ebrard/mexico-to-launch-el-salvador-jobs-program-under-central-america-development-plan-idUSKCN1TK25F

Meanwhile in México Job generation fell 88% https://twitter.com/econokafka/status/1141391196885004288

Hopefully his followers open their eyes to how much they were tricked to vote for this traitor.

And they were so hopeful back in April. (https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/269000-new-jobs-created-in-first-quarter/)
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 19, 2019, 07:38:16 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze;1092811

And they were so hopeful back in April. (https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/269000-new-jobs-created-in-first-quarter/)

Problem is he truly has "alternative" facts. And can't do math he's stunted trying to multiply 30X8000
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: jhkim on June 19, 2019, 08:36:33 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1092813
Problem is he truly has "alternative" facts. And can't do math he's stunted trying to multiply 30X8000

The Twitter graph you posted shows the job creation dropping starting from June last year - prior to the election. The election in December comes about halfway through the drop - so he came in while it was dropping, and it's continued to go down. What do you think started the downturn? Also, do you have a source other than Twitter for reliable stats on the Mexican economy?

I'm not disagreeing - the economy looks in bad shape. The mainstream foreign news seems consistent (economy still shrinking), but it's hard to see details. For example, here's one article:
Quote
Mexico received some $10 billion in foreign direct investment in the first quarter, up 7% from the same quarter last year, and inflation was slightly lower than expected in the first half of May at 4.43%.

The peso has appreciated over 6% since Lopez Obrador took office.

Still, some of the president's decisions have rattled investors, prompting concern among private sector analysts.

The International Monetary Fund on April 9 lowered Mexico's 2019 growth outlook to 1.6% from 2.1%, citing shifts in perception about policy.

Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mexico-economy-gdp/mexican-economy-shrinks-in-first-quarter-economists-downgrade-outlook-idUSKCN1SU1KX
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on June 19, 2019, 09:08:17 PM
Quote from: Opaopajr;1092730
I look forward to our high speed rail connecting San Francisco to the Yúcatan. :) Only as long as Mother Earth says we can though. ;)


I'd be more open to the high speed rail if we were connecting Seattle through Mexico City.

And if it was actually high speed.


Quote from: GeekyBugle;1092743
Yep, have you heard how people live up in the Ozarks I think?


Doc Sammy who posts here can speak in detail about the Ozarks.


Quote from: GeekyBugle;1092743
Imagine the poorest among you but not homeless, well here in México city we have (separated by just one street) McMansions to the right and huts made of cartoon boxes and recycled wood from pallets to the left.


Imagine it? I live in Los Angeles! I was doing research in the Hall of Records downtown and had to navigate through multiple tents and piss stank mats to get there, and you can see City Hall down the block!

My favorite are the mostly naked meth addicts sunbathing on the sidewalk a block from the courthouse who the cops bumrushed out of the neighborhood when the governor came for a visit. Couldn't have that on camera!

Of course, they're all back!


Quote from: GeekyBugle;1092743
Lets see how it works for them to fuck with the poorest in so many ways tho.


What do you think will happen to Mexico in the next few years?

How will the poor accept what's happening?


Quote from: GeekyBugle;1092809
Our beloved comrade leader to launch effort to create jobs in El Salvador


WTF?

I am genuinely confused. Why not focus on job creation in Mexico?
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 19, 2019, 11:28:18 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1092821
I'd be more open to the high speed rail if we were connecting Seattle through Mexico City.

And if it was actually high speed.


No thanks we have enough commies here already, and then you also have there La Raza, although it would be fun to drop them and El Frente Nacional (Honest to God Mexican Neo-Nazis) in a desert island and see what happens, they either kill each other or do sweet sweet racist love to one another.


Quote from: Spinachcat;1092821
Doc Sammy who posts here can speak in detail about the Ozarks.


Yeah, he could.


Quote from: Spinachcat;1092821
Imagine it? I live in Los Angeles! I was doing research in the Hall of Records downtown and had to navigate through multiple tents and piss stank mats to get there, and you can see City Hall down the block!

My favorite are the mostly naked meth addicts sunbathing on the sidewalk a block from the courthouse who the cops bumrushed out of the neighborhood when the governor came for a visit. Couldn't have that on camera!

Of course, they're all back!


Dude those are meth addicts, I'm talking hard working people who can't afford to move (the transport price would kill them) or to build a half-decent house, smack next to The rich fucks.


Quote from: Spinachcat;1092821
What do you think will happen to Mexico in the next few years?


It's anybody's guess, I think it all depends of how much worst things get here. We have a saying here: Mexicans are the most macho of them all, they fuck us in the ass daily without lube and we don't cry.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1092821
How will the poor accept what's happening?


It depends on if they manage to drop their blindfold and see what these assholes are doing to our country. I don't have much hope f that tho, El Presidente has a cult of personality already going and they can always blame the market, USA, CIA, etc.


Quote from: Spinachcat;1092821
WTF?

I am genuinely confused. Why not focus on job creation in Mexico?


Because they are fucking socialist internationalists, and because their followers are still clapping like seals anything they say/do.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 19, 2019, 11:34:33 PM
Quote from: jhkim;1092817
The Twitter graph you posted shows the job creation dropping starting from June last year - prior to the election. The election in December comes about halfway through the drop - so he came in while it was dropping, and it's continued to go down. What do you think started the downturn? Also, do you have a source other than Twitter for reliable stats on the Mexican economy?

I'm not disagreeing - the economy looks in bad shape. The mainstream foreign news seems consistent (economy still shrinking), but it's hard to see details. For example, here's one article:

Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mexico-economy-gdp/mexican-economy-shrinks-in-first-quarter-economists-downgrade-outlook-idUSKCN1SU1KX

That graph is from the IMSS, of course the economy was already slowing down, everybody believed the socialist was going to win, and he did, if he wasn't such an idiot things might have started getting better after the elections, but he keeps on doing stupid shit, and his croonies don't help talking of nationalizing this or that, threatening industrialists if they dare criticize El Presidente, and he keeps on closing down stuff and firing lots of people.

Putting good money in PEMEX (when they should just sell it)
Taking a huge debt to cancel the NAIM because it wasn't his plan and then expending more money to build a different NAIM in a not optimal location.
And then the crime rate goes thru the roof thanks to them releasing thousands of criminals because reasons.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 20, 2019, 12:00:17 AM
And now no more tourism promotion, because fuck the 10 million mexicans working there.

https://twitter.com/osoriochong/status/1141485945809702912
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 20, 2019, 01:19:15 PM
Quote from: jhkim;1092817
The Twitter graph you posted shows the job creation dropping starting from June last year - prior to the election. The election in December comes about halfway through the drop - so he came in while it was dropping, and it's continued to go down. What do you think started the downturn? Also, do you have a source other than Twitter for reliable stats on the Mexican economy?

I'm not disagreeing - the economy looks in bad shape. The mainstream foreign news seems consistent (economy still shrinking), but it's hard to see details. For example, here's one article:

Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mexico-economy-gdp/mexican-economy-shrinks-in-first-quarter-economists-downgrade-outlook-idUSKCN1SU1KX


https://www.elsoldemexico.com.mx/finanzas/baja-88-la-creacion-de-empleos-formales-3789168.html
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: jhkim on June 20, 2019, 01:40:43 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1092938
https://www.elsoldemexico.com.mx/finanzas/baja-88-la-creacion-de-empleos-formales-3789168.html

Thanks. It does make me curious about the Sembrando Vida and Jóvenes Construyendo el Futuro programs. I'd be skeptical of the programs, but would still want to evaluate them fairly.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 20, 2019, 02:24:45 PM
Quote from: jhkim;1092942
Thanks. It does make me curious about the Sembrando Vida and Jóvenes Construyendo el Futuro programs. I'd be skeptical of the programs, but would still want to evaluate them fairly.

Those are vote buying programs, it's "free" money for the NINIs (Ni Trabaja Ni Estudia) Not Working Not Studying. Like most of the "social" programs any mexican government has implemented. Tax payers money thrown to the trash because there will never be a return of the investment either in less crime, jobless, homeless, etc. We don't have a single fucking non-leftie party, it's just a degree of how far to the left they are. Unless you count the confessional parties and I wouldn't vote for those in a million years.

EDIT: And seems like our beloved comrade leader is counting people in some of those programs as being in the work force.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Opaopajr on June 20, 2019, 05:44:12 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1092821
Doc Sammy who posts here can speak in detail about the Ozarks.

Unless he recently moved, shouldn't he be speaking only for north-west Virginia? :( Ozarks are by Arkansas & Missouri. :) They, too, could use a bullet train to the Yúcatan (if Pacha Mama permits, of course :D ). It could be a works program under NAFTA. ;)
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 20, 2019, 06:00:41 PM
Socialized medicine is shit, never ever let them establish it there https://www.animalpolitico.com/2019/06/salud-compra-medicinas-marcapasos/
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 20, 2019, 06:05:31 PM
But it was a lie that the invaders had contagious diseases right? https://heraldodemexico.com.mx/pais/en-refugios-hay-varicela-sarampion/
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 20, 2019, 07:04:33 PM
In planing stages still, our beloved comrade leader wants to associate with the reptilian Zuckerberg to create a nationalized internet provider, think of China's internet since we know Zuckerberg likes to censor people and El Presidente doesn't like people being able to criticize him.

https://www.elsoldemexico.com.mx/finanzas/amlo-mark-zuckerberg-facebook-socios-crear-empresa-de-telecomunicaciones-conectividad-internet-3784764.html
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Shasarak on June 20, 2019, 07:28:41 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1092992
Socialized medicine is shit

Socialised medicine works pretty well actually.  It does not have the best medicines at the top but has a better over all safety net at the bottom with the added bonus of not driving you into bankruptcy just because you are sick.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 20, 2019, 07:33:48 PM
Quote from: Shasarak;1092999
Socialised medicine works pretty well actually.  It does not have the best medicines at the top but has a better over all safety net at the bottom with the added bonus of not driving you into bankruptcy just because you are sick.

Except if you need a peacemaker and there's none because your government wants to buy them at 90 pesos. Dude we have socialized medicine here since before I was born, don't try and tell me how it works or not.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Shasarak on June 20, 2019, 09:33:05 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1093000
Except if you need a peacemaker and there's none because your government wants to buy them at 90 pesos. Dude we have socialized medicine here since before I was born, don't try and tell me how it works or not.

We have had socialised medicine since before you were born and I am telling it can work OK.

Maybe the problem is with something else?
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on June 20, 2019, 10:05:22 PM
The value of a socialized medicine program is based on the amount of money spent. If your nation buys the lowest quality for the masses, that's a far cry from buying the medium quality of care.

You could call our Medicare program "socialized medicine" and its superior to most (or all) other programs because the USA spends insanely on Medicare.


Quote from: Opaopajr;1092988
Unless he recently moved, shouldn't he be speaking only for north-west Virginia? :( Ozarks are by Arkansas & Missouri. :)

OMG you are so right!!!  I totally forgot Appalachia =/= Ozarks!

DOH!
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Warboss Squee on June 20, 2019, 11:31:38 PM
Quote from: Shasarak;1093020
We have had socialised medicine since before you were born and I am telling it can work OK.

Maybe the problem is with something else?

It's usually a money versus target demographic issue.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 20, 2019, 11:48:57 PM
30 million dollars of our taxes "donated" to El Salvador while we have 50 million in poverty, hell he could have donated 10 million pesos each and have some money left. Bum! no more poverty! (for a while) https://www.yucatan.com.mx/mexico/mexico-dona-a-el-salvador-30-millones-de-dolares/amp/
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 21, 2019, 01:21:37 AM
Aaaaand I was right in my suspicions, our beloved comrade leader IS counting people getting money from the government to learn a trade as part of the work force. http://hugopaez.com/?p=4875
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 24, 2019, 08:26:35 PM
And now this https://twitter.com/ROCIOALCALAG/status/1143209203298897921

Isis in México, 3 worshipers of the pedophet that we know about. Fucking hell.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on June 24, 2019, 09:01:56 PM
Maybe ISIS just got hungry for some delicious carnitas and cold cerveza?

https://nypost.com/2019/06/07/isis-plotted-to-send-terrorists-through-us-mexico-border/
https://www.foxnews.com/world/isis-plot-westerners-mexico-border
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: jeff37923 on June 24, 2019, 09:51:43 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1093024
OMG you are so right!!!  I totally forgot Appalachia =/= Ozarks!

DOH!

Hillbilly Hater! Redneck Racist!  :D
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 24, 2019, 09:54:32 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1093451
Maybe ISIS just got hungry for some delicious carnitas and cold cerveza?

https://nypost.com/2019/06/07/isis-plotted-to-send-terrorists-through-us-mexico-border/
https://www.foxnews.com/world/isis-plot-westerners-mexico-border

Well we could throw some cold carnitas oil and pulque on top of them, maybe then they will go back to their shithole
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Delete_me on June 25, 2019, 11:06:32 AM
At the very least that would result in a lot of ritual cleansing.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Opaopajr on June 28, 2019, 04:13:36 AM
Quote from: jeff37923;1093461
Hillbilly Hater! Redneck Racist!  :D

It's the bigotry of erasure assuming them poor hillfolk all look alike. :D
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: oggsmash on June 28, 2019, 06:30:51 PM
Pretty sure mentioning Soros in  a negative light is more or less anti semitism, so be careful on that one.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 28, 2019, 06:37:30 PM
Quote from: oggsmash;1093995
Pretty sure mentioning Soros in  a negative light is more or less anti semitism, so be careful on that one.

LOL, no, it's not. Unless you start talking about "they" with echoes around. I don't think what a scumbag like Soros does reflects on other Jews, but those who do ARE anti-semites.

That scumbag bets against/in favor of certain currency, then proceeds to do what it takes to make money out of his bet, mainly destabilizing the country to topple their economy and thus making a few bucks. That has as much to do with other Jews as him being a fucking Nazi collaborator (which he was).
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: oggsmash on June 28, 2019, 08:16:49 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1093996
LOL, no, it's not. Unless you start talking about "they" with echoes around. I don't think what a scumbag like Soros does reflects on other Jews, but those who do ARE anti-semites.

That scumbag bets against/in favor of certain currency, then proceeds to do what it takes to make money out of his bet, mainly destabilizing the country to topple their economy and thus making a few bucks. That has as much to do with other Jews as him being a fucking Nazi collaborator (which he was).

   People like the CNN Vanderbilt spawn would disagree with you.   I made the point about the guy being a nazi collaborator before, linked the video where the guy said from his own mouth the time he spent turning people in to nazis were the best years of his life, and folks said he was just a victim of circumstance.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Snowman0147 on June 28, 2019, 10:39:15 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1093996
LOL, no, it's not. Unless you start talking about "they" with echoes around. I don't think what a scumbag like Soros does reflects on other Jews, but those who do ARE anti-semites.

That scumbag bets against/in favor of certain currency, then proceeds to do what it takes to make money out of his bet, mainly destabilizing the country to topple their economy and thus making a few bucks. That has as much to do with other Jews as him being a fucking Nazi collaborator (which he was).

Actually yeah Soros did in fact work for the Nazis.  Fucker sold his people out.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Snowman0147 on June 28, 2019, 10:40:15 PM
Quote from: oggsmash;1094012
People like the CNN Vanderbilt spawn would disagree with you.   I made the point about the guy being a nazi collaborator before, linked the video where the guy said from his own mouth the time he spent turning people in to nazis were the best years of his life, and folks said he was just a victim of circumstance.

Post a link please.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: oggsmash on June 28, 2019, 10:41:32 PM
Quote from: Snowman0147;1094035
Post a link please.

To what?  The 60 minutes interview with soros is pretty easy to find.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Shasarak on June 28, 2019, 11:13:54 PM
Quote from: oggsmash;1093995
Pretty sure mentioning Soros in  a negative light is more or less anti semitism, so be careful on that one.

I dont know how big a problem that is now since the main stream news are calling out people like Ben Shapiro as alt-right Nazi supporters.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on June 29, 2019, 03:35:17 AM
It's very easy to be pro-Jewish rights and pro-Israel and anti-Soros.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 29, 2019, 11:47:30 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1094057
It's very easy to be pro-Jewish rights and pro-Israel and anti-Soros.


Yep, after all it only takes being an individualist instead of a collectivist and not buying into conspiracy theories. (teh patriarchy or teh protocols of sion)
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Alathon on July 02, 2019, 01:11:29 AM
Quote from: oggsmash;1093995
Pretty sure mentioning Soros in  a negative light is more or less anti semitism, so be careful on that one.


We are all fallible humans, and no person or people is beyond reproach.  It's fine to criticize anyone, and any group.  If someone says otherwise, that it is impermissible to speak against them?  Tries to create a taboo against examining the conduct of any person or group?  If they drowned in boiling shit I wouldn't shed a tear.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Delete_me on July 02, 2019, 10:13:59 AM
Quote from: Snowman0147;1094032
Actually yeah Soros did in fact work for the Nazis.  Fucker sold his people out.

No. No he did not. There are plenty of reasons not to like the man. That's not one of them. (https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/the-truth-about-george-soros-is-damning-enough/)
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 02, 2019, 02:12:52 PM
Quote from: Tanin Wulf;1094340
No. No he did not. There are plenty of reasons not to like the man. That's not one of them. (https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/the-truth-about-george-soros-is-damning-enough/)


Yes, yes he did watch the VIDEO (https://ia801906.us.archive.org/27/items/George_Soros_1998_60_Minutes_Interview/George_Soros_1998_60_Minutes_Interview.mp4) from around the 7:00 mark

And I quote
Quote

 KROFT: You're a Hungarian Jew

Mr. SOROS: Mm-hmm.

KROFT: who escaped the Holocaust

Mr. SOROS: Mm-hmm.

(Vintage footage of people getting on train)

KROFT: by-by posing as a Christian.

Mr. SOROS: Right.

(Vintage footage of women helping each other get on train; train door closing with people in boxcar)

KROFT: And you watched lots of people get shipped off to the death camps.

Mr. SOROS: Right. I was 14 years old. And I would say that that's when my character was made.

KROFT: In what way?

Mr. SOROS: That one should think ahead. One should understand and-and anticipate events and when-when one is threatened. It was a tremendous threat of evil. I mean, it was a-a very personal experience of evil."

KROFT: My understanding is that you went out with this protector of yours who swore that you were his adopted godson.

Mr. SOROS: Yes. Yes.

KROFT: Went out, in fact, and helped in the confiscation of property from the Jews.

Mr. SOROS: Yes. That's right. Yes.

KROFT: I mean, that's-that sounds like an experience that would send lots of people to the psychiatric couch for many, many years. Was it difficult?

Mr. SOROS: Not-not at all. Not at all. Maybe as a child you don't-you don't see the connection. But it was-it created no-no problem at all.

KROFT: No feeling of guilt?

Mr. SOROS: No.

KROFT: For example that, "I'm Jewish and here I am, watching these people go. I could just as easily be there. I should be there." None of that?

Mr. SOROS: Well, of course I c-I could be on the other side or I could be the one from whom the thing is being taken away. But there was no sense that I shouldn't be there, because that was-well, actually, in a funny way, it's just like in markets-that if I weren't there-of course, I wasn't doing it, but somebody else would-would-would be taking it away anyhow. And it was the-whether I was there or not, I was only a spectator, the property was being taken away. So the-I had no role in taking away that property. So I had no sense of guilt.  (George Soros, 60 Minutes interview transcript, December 20, 1998)

Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Shasarak on July 02, 2019, 05:02:59 PM
Sorry I dont see that interview as evidence that Soros sold his people out to the Nazis.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Snowman0147 on July 02, 2019, 06:37:58 PM
Quote from: Shasarak;1094377
Sorry I dont see that interview as evidence that Soros sold his people out to the Nazis.

He still took properties of his fellow jews and gave it to the nazis.  That is still a horrible thing to do and I have no doubt he would rat out any jews if it means he can keep up his christian disguise.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Delete_me on July 02, 2019, 07:14:14 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1094364
Yes, yes he did watch the VIDEO (https://ia801906.us.archive.org/27/items/George_Soros_1998_60_Minutes_Interview/George_Soros_1998_60_Minutes_Interview.mp4) from around the 7:00 mark

And I quote

Read the ARTICLE. Which addresses the video and what's wrong with that. (And the article is from a source I chose for a reason.)
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: jhkim on July 02, 2019, 07:26:42 PM
From GeekyBugle's quoted interview with Soros. Below is his bolded section:

Quote
KROFT: My understanding is that you went out with this protector of yours who swore that you were his adopted godson.

Mr. SOROS: Yes. Yes.

KROFT: Went out, in fact, and helped in the confiscation of property from the Jews.

Mr. SOROS: Yes. That's right. Yes.

Below is my bolding from the same quote:
Quote
Mr. SOROS: Well, of course I c-I could be on the other side or I could be the one from whom the thing is being taken away. But there was no sense that I shouldn't be there, because that was-well, actually, in a funny way, it's just like in markets-that if I weren't there-of course, I wasn't doing it, but somebody else would-would-would be taking it away anyhow. And it was the-whether I was there or not, I was only a spectator, the property was being taken away. So the-I had no role in taking away that property. So I had no sense of guilt.
If you're going to take his word, then according to what he says, he was just a spectator. This is in 1944. He was 14 years old and maintaining a cover as a Christian bureaucrat's godson.

So as for the adult - the adult is a Hungarian bureaucrat named Baumbach, who helped save a Jewish child, while he still went about his assigned job to inventory confiscated Jewish property. I don't think it is reasonable in any sense to call Baumbach a Nazi. He was risking his life by pretending this Jewish child was his godson, and then helping him leave the country. That's like calling Oskar Schindler a Nazi and his helper's collaborators. Schindler was technically a Nazi party member and profited from Jewish labor, but he was saving Jewish people's lives while he did so. Schindler and Baumbach were working against the system from within.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 02, 2019, 08:11:59 PM
Quote from: jhkim;1094400
From GeekyBugle's quoted interview with Soros. Below is his bolded section:


Quote
KROFT: My understanding is that you went out with this protector of yours who swore that you were his adopted godson.

Mr. SOROS: Yes. Yes.

KROFT: Went out, in fact, and helped in the confiscation of property from the Jews.

Mr. SOROS: Yes. That's right. Yes.


So he was asked directly and admitted to doing it? YES

Quote from: jhkim;1094400
Below is my bolding from the same quote:


Quote
Mr. SOROS: Well, of course I c-I could be on the other side or I could be the one from whom the thing is being taken away. But there was no sense that I shouldn't be there, because that was-well, actually, in a funny way, it's just like in markets-that if I weren't there-of course, I wasn't doing it, but somebody else would-would-would be taking it away anyhow. And it was the-whether I was there or not, I was only a spectator, the property was being taken away. So the-I had no role in taking away that property. So I had no sense of guilt.


Included all your comment to properly debunk your reading.

Quote from: jhkim;1094400
If you're going to take his word, then according to what he says, he was just a spectator. This is in 1944. He was 14 years old and maintaining a cover as a Christian bureaucrat's godson.

So as for the adult - the adult is a Hungarian bureaucrat named Baumbach, who helped save a Jewish child, while he still went about his assigned job to inventory confiscated Jewish property. I don't think it is reasonable in any sense to call Baumbach a Nazi. He was risking his life by pretending this Jewish child was his godson, and then helping him leave the country. That's like calling Oskar Schindler a Nazi and his helper's collaborators. Schindler was technically a Nazi party member and profited from Jewish labor, but he was saving Jewish people's lives while he did so. Schindler and Baumbach were working against the system from within.


No, he was not an spectator, he was helping in the confiscation. And he's rationalizing that if not him someone else would have done it. And I'll show you exactly where.

Quote
Mr. SOROS: Well, of course I c-I could be on the other side or I could be the one from whom the thing is being taken away. But there was no sense that I shouldn't be there, because that was-well, actually, in a funny way, it's just like in markets-that if I weren't there-of course, I wasn't doing it, but somebody else would-would-would be taking it away anyhow. And it was the-whether I was there or not, I was only a spectator, the property was being taken away. So the-I had no role in taking away that property. So I had no sense of guilt.


He's clearly establishing an hypothetical, IF he wasn't there and wasn't doing it, then someone else would be doing it anyhow. This is him washing his hands of his admitted guilt by rationalizing it away. Of course someone else would have done it if not him, but the point remains that it WAS him who did it.

No cigar, no participation trophy, care to try again?
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Shasarak on July 02, 2019, 08:45:48 PM
Quote from: Snowman0147;1094389
He still took properties of his fellow jews and gave it to the nazis.  That is still a horrible thing to do and I have no doubt he would rat out any jews if it means he can keep up his christian disguise.

The Nazis already got the Jews, what do you want a 14 year old to do about that?  Unleash his magical Pikachu on them?

I would respect your opinion on Soros more if it was based on things that he actually did rather then something that you imagined that he did especially when he was 14 years old.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Shasarak on July 02, 2019, 08:51:58 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1094406
He's clearly establishing an hypothetical, IF he wasn't there and wasn't doing it, then someone else would be doing it anyhow. This is him washing his hands of his admitted guilt by rationalizing it away. Of course someone else would have done it if not him, but the point remains that it WAS him who did it.

No cigar, no participation trophy, care to try again?

Just imagine yourself back at 14 years old except that there are actual real life Nazis in control of your country, army and police that want to kill you, your family and essentially everyone that you know.  What are you going to do?  Remember no participation trophy, if you fail you die so whats your move?
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 02, 2019, 09:07:36 PM
Quote from: Shasarak;1094414
Just imagine yourself back at 14 years old except that there are actual real life Nazis in control of your country, army and police that want to kill you, your family and essentially everyone that you know.  What are you going to do?  Remember no participation trophy, if you fail you die so whats your move?

So now it's no imaginary stuff anymore?

If your argument is that this can be excused due to the circumstances I would agree, except the asshole feels no remorse, no guilt.

Not to forget there were many Jews even younger who didn't do what he did.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Shasarak on July 03, 2019, 12:05:14 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1094417
So now it's no imaginary stuff anymore?

If your argument is that this can be excused due to the circumstances I would agree, except the asshole feels no remorse, no guilt.

Not to forget there were many Jews even younger who didn't do what he did.

Why would he feel remorse?  He did not do anything wrong.  

He may or may not have helped his "father" to take stuff out of a house whose owners had been arrested by the government.  Personally I would be suspicious of someone crying a river over that scenario especially someone who survived Nazi Germany.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 03, 2019, 02:29:34 AM
Quote from: Shasarak;1094430
Why would he feel remorse?  He did not do anything wrong.  

He may or may not have helped his "father" to take stuff out of a house whose owners had been arrested by the government.  Personally I would be suspicious of someone crying a river over that scenario especially someone who survived Nazi Germany.

Your definition of wrong seems to me a bit wonky. But hey I'm against collaborating with genocidal regimes. And there's no "may" he did, admitted so himself on video.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on July 03, 2019, 03:48:01 AM
I find Soros' lack of remorse in line with the wretched asshole he became as an adult.

However, I can't judge him for his actions as a 14 year old doing whatever it took to survive.

But I have no problem judging Soros solely on his adult actions.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: EOTB on July 03, 2019, 05:31:58 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1094439
But I have no problem judging Soros solely on his adult actions.

This.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Shasarak on July 03, 2019, 05:20:28 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1094439
I find Soros' lack of remorse in line with the wretched asshole he became as an adult.

However, I can't judge him for his actions as a 14 year old doing whatever it took to survive.

But I have no problem judging Soros solely on his adult actions.


Exactly.  Hate the guy for what he did not what your derangement syndrome imagined that he did.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: KingCheops on July 03, 2019, 08:34:59 PM
So it would be a-okay for a homeless 14 year old to come to your houses tomorrow and take all your stuff.  Please post your addresses so I can pass it along.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Opaopajr on July 05, 2019, 11:34:20 AM
Quote from: KingCheops;1094540
So it would be a-okay for a homeless 14 year old to come to your houses tomorrow and take all your stuff.  Please post your addresses so I can pass it along.


There is a difference between condoning and excusing. :) This is especially so with factors such as duress and teenage judgment. There is a reason why globally crime and punishment usually had (has) a demarcation point between the child and the adult, between normalcy and in extremis. Further, excusing does not preclude all punishment, it often merely mitigates degree.

I know nuance on the internet is not a popular thing, but I'd like to think we can do it here every now and again. :) Be good to each other, everybody!
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 05, 2019, 02:56:37 PM
Quote from: Opaopajr;1094661
There is a difference between condoning and excusing. :) This is especially so with factors such as duress and teenage judgment. There is a reason why globally crime and punishment usually had (has) a demarcation point between the child and the adult, between normalcy and in extremis. Further, excusing does not preclude all punishment, it often merely mitigates degree.

I know nuance on the internet is not a popular thing, but I'd like to think we can do it here every now and again. :) Be good to each other, everybody!

Condoning, yes, I would gladly do so, but when he say this formed his character and then you hear again how he pays no mind to the real world suffering his actions against some currency cause (and I quote) "If I weren't doing it someone else would" you realize he's a shitty human being.

Never mind his funding of anti-science "studies", open-borders ONGs and at least one extreme left online publication. He's a piece of rancid, smelly and maggot infested shit.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Opaopajr on July 05, 2019, 09:16:09 PM
Strange, I would not condone what he did, but instead excuse it and expect better when age and improved circumstance permits. :)

He obviously did not change for the better when his context changed. And that's on him for being damaged and not seeking healing... Perhaps he is locked in denial?
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 06, 2019, 10:17:14 AM
Quote from: Opaopajr;1094712
Strange, I would not condone what he did, but instead excuse it and expect better when age and improved circumstance permits. :)

He obviously did not change for the better when his context changed. And that's on him for being damaged and not seeking healing... Perhaps he is locked in denial?

You might be right, remember English isn't my first language. He learned to care only about himself and fuck everybody else, and the same rationalization he uses to avoid any responsibility and guilt over his actions then is the one he uses to avoid any responsibility and guilt over his actions now.

He's a putrid and filled with maggots piece of stinking shit.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Opaopajr on July 06, 2019, 09:06:38 PM
I believe spite induced by being locked in denial to be a major factor of the current world acrimony. :) Seems like much of the entertainment and media world needed a good cry after 2016 USA elections.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 06, 2019, 09:32:43 PM
Quote from: Opaopajr;1094768
I believe spite induced by being locked in denial to be a major factor of the current world acrimony. :) Seems like much of the entertainment and media world needed a good cry after 2016 USA elections.

And to get fucked with a sahuaro cactus
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Opaopajr on July 07, 2019, 10:27:32 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1094770
And to get fucked with a sahuaro cactus

Now, now, now... :rolleyes: Is that the most loving and compassionate action to someone who is scared and in pain? :) There is cruel to be kind, and then there is just cruel. :D
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: jhkim on July 08, 2019, 01:33:30 PM
Quote from: jhkim
If you're going to take his word, then according to what he says, he was just a spectator. This is in 1944. He was 14 years old and maintaining a cover as a Christian bureaucrat's godson.

So as for the adult - the adult is a Hungarian bureaucrat named Baumbach, who helped save a Jewish child, while he still went about his assigned job to inventory confiscated Jewish property. I don't think it is reasonable in any sense to call Baumbach a Nazi. He was risking his life by pretending this Jewish child was his godson, and then helping him leave the country. That's like calling Oskar Schindler a Nazi and his helper's collaborators. Schindler was technically a Nazi party member and profited from Jewish labor, but he was saving Jewish people's lives while he did so. Schindler and Baumbach were working against the system from within.
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1094406
No, he was not an spectator, he was helping in the confiscation. And he's rationalizing that if not him someone else would have done it. And I'll show you exactly where.
Quote
Mr. SOROS: Well, of course I c-I could be on the other side or I could be the one from whom the thing is being taken away. But there was no sense that I shouldn't be there, because that was-well, actually, in a funny way, it's just like in markets-that if I weren't there-of course, I wasn't doing it, but somebody else would-would-would be taking it away anyhow. And it was the-whether I was there or not, I was only a spectator, the property was being taken away. So the-I had no role in taking away that property. So I had no sense of guilt.
You're trying to dig into exact wording into meaning that he was somehow doing actual work, despite his saying that he was a spectator. But particularly in a verbal interview, people won't have correct wording and will misstate and/or rephrase things. To ground this in reality, remember that at this time, he was a 14 year old, posing as a Christian bureaucrat's son. He wasn't doing any real adult work or betraying Jewish secrets.

I gave a specific parallel that you failed to comment on. Do you think that Jews who worked with Oskar Schindler were Nazi collaborators? They were helping a Nazi party member who was profiting from Jewish slave labor.

Personally, I would say that collaborating with Schindler did not make them collaborators, because Schindler was saving Jewish lives at the risk of his own. His profiting from Jewish labor was only a cover. He worked with the Nazis in order to maintain his cover, but that did not make him a true Nazi or the people who worked with him collaborators.

I think the same logic applies to Baumbach, just on a smaller scale. He was saving a Jewish child at risk of his own, and kept up his day job as a bureaucrat to cover for that. A Jew who helped Baumbach weren't Nazi sympathizers or collaborators - they were helping undermine the system.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Opaopajr on July 08, 2019, 01:55:27 PM
:eek: Uh-oh, dangerous nuance rapids up ahead! This might slip out from the calm of moral ideals into the choppy waters of contextual ethics (and on the internet of all places? :o). Tighten your life-vests and hang on to your oars, kiddies! (jhkim, why you gotta choose the black diamond, cat 4, whitewater trail? :p)
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: jhkim on July 08, 2019, 08:43:58 PM
Quote from: Opaopajr;1094890
:eek: Uh-oh, dangerous nuance rapids up ahead! This might slip out from the calm of moral ideals into the choppy waters of contextual ethics (and on the internet of all places? :o). Tighten your life-vests and hang on to your oars, kiddies! (jhkim, why you gotta choose the black diamond, cat 4, whitewater trail? :p)
I don't think this is actually all that tricky.

I'm pretty sure everyone - liberal and conservative - would have the same answer about someone like Baumbach, based solely on actions in 1944. It defies basic common sense to say that someone helping smuggle out Jews is a Nazi or a collaborator.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on July 09, 2019, 05:14:53 AM
Quote from: jhkim;1094889
I gave a specific parallel that you failed to comment on. Do you think that Jews who worked with Oskar Schindler were Nazi collaborators? They were helping a Nazi party member who was profiting from Jewish slave labor.


That isn't parallel. Schindler had slave laborers in his care. They didn't have a choice whether or not to work for him. Their "collaboration" wasn't voluntary. It was work or die.

Soros was not slave labor. He was evading capture with the help of Baumbach. But he was 14 years old, hiding to keep from being enslaved (or much worse) and doing whatever it took to stay safe.

I don't buy Soros' "spectator" story, and to me, it doesn't matter. He was an innocent teen in a terrible situation who grew into a terrible adult who won't be missed.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: jhkim on July 09, 2019, 02:49:12 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1094971
That isn't parallel. Schindler had slave laborers in his care. They didn't have a choice whether or not to work for him. Their "collaboration" wasn't voluntary. It was work or die.
There were many Jews helped Schindler willingly, including Itzhak Stern, Abraham Bankier, and others. Many of them called him a good person, and even helped him financially after the war. Why would they continue to help him after the war if their help was only because of "work or die"? That makes no sense to me. By their own accounts, they actively helped Schindler, because his factory business was instrumental in saving lives.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1094971
Soros was not slave labor. He was evading capture with the help of Baumbach. But he was 14 years old, hiding to keep from being enslaved (or much worse) and doing whatever it took to stay safe.

I don't buy Soros' "spectator" story, and to me, it doesn't matter.
He wasn't forced to "work or die" - but he had the alternate threat, which was "maintain cover or die". The spectator story makes sense to me, because I don't think that any significant work would have been expected from a 14-year-old Christian boy (which he was successfully posing as). From the accounts I read, he mostly stayed at Baumbach's home - but on the times when he visited with Baumbach at work, it seems reasonable to me that he was mostly there observing the adults rather than being an integral part of the work.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on July 09, 2019, 04:33:40 PM
Quote from: jhkim;1095017
Why would they continue to help him after the war if their help was only because of "work or die"?


Because he saved their lives.

But when they were captured, enslaved and shipped off to Schindler, they had no idea that Schindler would turn out to be a hero. He was just another Nazi in charge of just another factory and they were there to work or die. Only after they realized Schindler was betraying the Nazis could they know they had lucked out.


Quote from: jhkim;1095017
He wasn't forced to "work or die" - but he had the alternate threat, which was "maintain cover or die".


Every other Jew, gypsy and homosexual captured by the Nazis would have loved to have had that alternate threat versus the daily death/rape/torture roulette they faced in the work camps or concentration camps.

For that reason alone, Soros should be less of a shitbag.


Quote from: jhkim;1095017
The spectator story makes sense to me, because I don't think that any significant work would have been expected from a 14-year-old Christian boy


Why not? This wasn't our modern era where 14 year olds are treated like toddlers. Teens working in the family business or local businesses was normal. Carrying stuff out of people's homes wasn't skilled labor.

But maybe Baumbach covered him so well that Soros was "working" at home, or always sick or busy so there was always a cover story for why this young man (not toddler) was not working.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: jhkim on July 09, 2019, 07:20:54 PM
Quote from: jhkim
Why would they continue to help him after the war if their help was only because of "work or die"?
Quote from: Spinachcat;1095025
Because he saved their lives.

But when they were captured, enslaved and shipped off to Schindler, they had no idea that Schindler would turn out to be a hero. He was just another Nazi in charge of just another factory and they were there to work or die. Only after they realized Schindler was betraying the Nazis could they know they had lucked out.
OK, but would you agree that once someone knew that Schindler was betraying the Nazis, it was reasonable and morally acceptable to help him? I think this should be blindingly damn obvious. Schindler wasn't morally grey - he was a hero.

If so, would you agree that the same applies to Baumbach? That is, after someone knew that Baumbach was secretly risking himself to help Jews, then they could morally help him without being traitors.

That's what I don't get here - trying to characterize Baumbach as a bad guy, when he's risking his neck to help Jewish people. Baumbach didn't own a factory that employed a thousand people, but he did what he could helping people with his own home.


Quote from:  jhkim
The spectator story makes sense to me, because I don't think that any significant work would have been expected from a 14-year-old Christian boy
Quote from: Spinachcat;1095025
Why not? This wasn't our modern era where 14 year olds are treated like toddlers. Teens working in the family business or local businesses was normal. Carrying stuff out of people's homes wasn't skilled labor.

But maybe Baumbach covered him so well that Soros was "working" at home, or always sick or busy so there was always a cover story for why this young man (not toddler) was not working.
It's not impossible that he was lying and actually did something wrong in that time. He could be lying about all sorts of things: rape, murder, pillaging. But I don't see any evidence of it. This wasn't a family or local business - Baumbach was a bureaucrat working for the Hungarian agriculture ministry, which was how he was called on to inventory estates.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Pat on July 09, 2019, 11:31:55 PM
Quote from: jhkim;1095038
OK, but would you agree that once someone knew that Schindler was betraying the Nazis, it was reasonable and morally acceptable to help him? I think this should be blindingly damn obvious. Schindler wasn't morally grey - he was a hero.

To do what he did, Schindler needed to work with the Nazis, in ways that should make anyone feel uncomfortable.

There are very few morally pure heroes, effectively none. Pretending otherwise leads to very dark places, because it becomes very easy to justify doing nearly anything in the belief that you're always righteous.

Real heroes are filled with doubt, self-loathing when they have to compromise, and regret not just for the things they couldn't stop, but for the things they did. That's what stops them from being monsters.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on July 10, 2019, 12:17:13 PM
Quote from: jhkim;1095038
OK, but would you agree that once someone knew that Schindler was betraying the Nazis, it was reasonable and morally acceptable to help him?


Of course! If you're stuck as a slave, its always better to have a nice slave owner.


Quote from: jhkim;1095038
That's what I don't get here - trying to characterize Baumbach as a bad guy,


The only bad guy in this story is the adult Soros. I'm happy to assume Baumbach didn't save Soros so he could become a billion dollar douchebag.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on July 10, 2019, 12:20:16 PM
GeekBugle, the New York Times has a story about Mexico's finance minister quitting, and allegedly firing off a scathing rebuke of the current administration. What's the real story down south?
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/09/world/americas/mexico-minster-urzua.html
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: oggsmash on July 16, 2019, 08:26:37 PM
Lots future sociopaths at 14 year olds torture and kill cats and puppies on their way to growing up to be serial killers, or something similar. Or molest kids younger than they are.  Call it what you will but some people are just evil, and I think it takes root early in them.  I do not think most people who hate soros in any way think he is a nazi.  His father said he took active roles in ratting out and helping nazis snatch property from jews.  Soros says he was a spectator.   I do not know what happened, I do know he knows he wants to reshape the entire world.  His world view and my worldview are completely different.  If he died right this second to an assasins shot or dagger, the world is a better place.   He most certainly sees the US as an ideological enemy to be removed.  He uses his wealth and power to see this done.  Some politicians in the US see him as an ally and a patron.  I think he will have his will done, maybe after his passing, but his works and others like him have done their damage, despite for so long his actions being called conspiracy theories.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: jhkim on July 17, 2019, 11:54:45 PM
Quote from: jhkim
That's what I don't get here - trying to characterize Baumbach as a bad guy,
Quote from: Spinachcat;1095123
The only bad guy in this story is the adult Soros. I'm happy to assume Baumbach didn't save Soros so he could become a billion dollar douchebag.
So, are we in agreement? Baumbach didn't do anything wrong and teenage Soros didn't do anything wrong.

This in contrast to people like oggsmash, who claim that teenage Soros was ratting out Jews...

Quote from: oggsmash;1096096
Lots future sociopaths at 14 year olds torture and kill cats and puppies on their way to growing up to be serial killers, or something similar. Or molest kids younger than they are.  Call it what you will but some people are just evil, and I think it takes root early in them.  I do not think most people who hate soros in any way think he is a nazi.  His father said he took active roles in ratting out and helping nazis snatch property from jews.  Soros says he was a spectator.   I do not know what happened, I do know he knows he wants to reshape the entire world.
oggsmash - Do you have a source for that? Because that doesn't match anything that I've seen about teenage Soros.

It doesn't make sense. To reiterate what I know:  At 14 years old, Soros stayed with a bureaucrat named Baumbach who worked for the Hungarian agriculture ministry, posing as his Christian godson. As part of his job, Baumbach inventoried estates, including those confiscated from Jews. Teenage Soros at least once went with Baumbach on an estate inventory, and helped out while there. Ratting people out makes no sense to me - that would be blowing his own cover.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: shuddemell on July 18, 2019, 12:20:11 AM
https://www.nowtheendbegins.com/proof-george-soros-nazi-past-finally-comes-light-discovery-forgotten-interview/

This is what Soros had to say about that period in his life.

(BTW, I don't endorse this publication, but it was the first source I found with the revealing 60 Minutes interview)
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: jhkim on July 18, 2019, 02:52:05 AM
Quote from: shuddemell;1096230
https://www.nowtheendbegins.com/proof-george-soros-nazi-past-finally-comes-light-discovery-forgotten-interview/

This is what Soros had to say about that period in his life.

(BTW, I don't endorse this publication, but it was the first source I found with the revealing 60 Minutes interview)
Seriously?!? shuddemell, I know you're saying that you don't endorse the publication ("Now the End Begins"), but you're still citing it as a reference.

I think the fact that it's the source you found should tell you something about what you're buying into.

And the supposed evidence fits exactly to what I said, and has nothing to support oggsmash's claim that teenage Soros ratted out other Jews.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Alathon on July 18, 2019, 11:45:01 AM
Quote from: jhkim;1096240
Seriously?!? shuddemell, I know you're saying that you don't endorse the publication ("Now the End Begins"), but you're still citing it as a reference.

I think the fact that it's the source you found should tell you something about what you're buying into.

A rational person need not endorse another person or group, to recognize that they have provided useful information.  It's important to avoid killing the messenger when you receive news you don't like, lest you fall into the typical leftist trap of "I decide which sources are trustworthy and all the trustworthy sources agree with me!"
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: jhkim on July 18, 2019, 02:37:00 PM
Quote from: jhkim;1096240
Seriously?!? shuddemell, I know you're saying that you don't endorse the publication ("Now the End Begins"), but you're still citing it as a reference.

I think the fact that it's the source you found should tell you something about what you're buying into.
Quote from: Alathon;1096260
A rational person need not endorse another person or group, to recognize that they have provided useful information.  It's important to avoid killing the messenger when you receive news you don't like, lest you fall into the typical leftist trap of "I decide which sources are trustworthy and all the trustworthy sources agree with me!"
Some news sources really are untrustworthy, though, independent of political bias. There might be bits of truth reported in the National Enquirer, but they are so mixed in with falsehoods that it's not worth anyone's time to dig through them. The same goes for the biblical apocalypse site "Now the End Begins", in my opinion.

Reading those sites doesn't make one better informed about facts of the world. They just add to the clutter of nonsense one has to sift through to get to real truths.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: shuddemell on July 18, 2019, 10:39:06 PM
Quote from: jhkim;1096240
Seriously?!? shuddemell, I know you're saying that you don't endorse the publication ("Now the End Begins"), but you're still citing it as a reference.

I think the fact that it's the source you found should tell you something about what you're buying into.

And the supposed evidence fits exactly to what I said, and has nothing to support oggsmash's claim that teenage Soros ratted out other Jews.

Nonsense, I explained that it was the first source I found with the 60 minute interview with Soros. I didn't claim that it contradicted your claim or any such strawman you care to build. I was just giving a resource to see what Soros had said about the issue. I did not interpret or comment positively or negatively in any way.

If you prefer, now that I have had time to search further... here it is sans any publication...
https://youtu.be/QSyczwuTQfo

I think Alathon is correct about your bias as well. If you have decided one source is "reliable" you really don't consider others unless goaded to do so; re: Climate Change sources. You have a penchant for casually dismissing anything that doesn't agree with your view, even before you read or watch it, or at least that is a trend I have noticed in your interactions with me and others. I don't say this to be insulting, we all have our biases. I have to re-examine mine on a regular basis, it might be useful for you to do the same.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on July 18, 2019, 11:43:17 PM
Quote from: jhkim;1096228
So, are we in agreement? Baumbach didn't do anything wrong and teenage Soros didn't do anything wrong.


Unfortunately, everything involving the Holocaust is incredibly politicized to the point historians don't dare question the narratives. The political stakes for control of the historical narrative have distorted how we could normally investigate the past. But for me, I don't need 2M or 6M or 20M dead to know the Holocaust was a murderous nightmare.

Also, while I don't like "moral relativism", I'm hard pressed to judge people for doing whatever it takes to survive in nightmarish scenarios. So I don't know where the line for "wrong" truly exists in the story of Baumbach and teenage Soros during the Nazi regime. Any Jew who actually betrayed their fellow Jews is abhorrent, but how many people do abhorrent things to survive in abhorrent situations?

As for our agreement, we're on a similar page. Teenage Soros (may or may not) have done terrible things to survive (as we don't know), but I believe he should only be held responsible for his adult actions which he committed long after the Nazis were gone.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: jhkim on July 19, 2019, 02:48:08 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1096321
As for our agreement, we're on a similar page. Teenage Soros (may or may not) have done terrible things to survive (as we don't know), but I believe he should only be held responsible for his adult actions which he committed long after the Nazis were gone.
OK, that sounds close-ish. You're saying that we don't know - which I agree is technically true. I would add that while it's a possibility that he did terrible things to survive, that's like saying it's possible that young Ronald Reagan was a serial rapist. Unless I see solid evidence of either, I don't take such accusations seriously.

The only evidence I see is that 14-year-old Soros went along with the bureaucrat posing as his father, and helped to inventory confiscated estates. That is vastly different than oggsmash's claim that teenage Soros ratted out other Jews - going along with others (Snowman0147, GeekyBugle) who said that he worked with the Nazis and betrayed his people.


Quote from: shuddemell;1096316
Nonsense, I explained that it was the first source I found with the 60 minute interview with Soros. I didn't claim that it contradicted your claim or any such strawman you care to build. I was just giving a resource to see what Soros had said about the issue. I did not interpret or comment positively or negatively in any way.

If you prefer, now that I have had time to search further... here it is sans any publication...
https://youtu.be/QSyczwuTQfo
You presented a link the the Biblical apocalypse site just after oggsmash's claim that teenage Soros ratted out other Jews - going along with others (Snowman0147, GeekyBugle) who similarly claimed that he worked for the Nazis. It is weaseling to say that you're not interpreting or commenting. This is much like the video itself, which tries to insinuate by putting footage of the Holocaust over Soros' dialog in order to cast implications that he doesn't actually say.


Quote from: shuddemell;1096316
I think Alathon is correct about your bias as well. If you have decided one source is "reliable" you really don't consider others unless goaded to do so; re: Climate Change sources. You have a penchant for casually dismissing anything that doesn't agree with your view, even before you read or watch it, or at least that is a trend I have noticed in your interactions with me and others. I don't say this to be insulting, we all have our biases. I have to re-examine mine on a regular basis, it might be useful for you to do the same.
I feel like I do re-examine my biases, by reading and engaging with the sources that people here post. I suspect that I'm reading more right-wing sources than you're reading left-wing sources. If I were to read and post links to the Huffington Post or Daily Kos (which I don't) -- would you read them and take them seriously? I'm doubtful.

Ultimately, I believe in objective truth, and that some sources are more reliable than others. There are posts where I've felt more informed about topics on -- like racial IQ studies in some previous threads, say - from S'mon and Alathon. But oggsmash's claims about teenage Soros ratting out Jews and similar doesn't have any substance that I can see.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: shuddemell on July 20, 2019, 12:27:28 AM
Quote from: jhkim;1096363
OK, that sounds close-ish. You're saying that we don't know - which I agree is technically true. I would add that while it's a possibility that he did terrible things to survive, that's like saying it's possible that young Ronald Reagan was a serial rapist. Unless I see solid evidence of either, I don't take such accusations seriously.

The only evidence I see is that 14-year-old Soros went along with the bureaucrat posing as his father, and helped to inventory confiscated estates. That is vastly different than oggsmash's claim that teenage Soros ratted out other Jews - going along with others (Snowman0147, GeekyBugle) who said that he worked with the Nazis and betrayed his people.



You presented a link the the Biblical apocalypse site just after oggsmash's claim that teenage Soros ratted out other Jews - going along with others (Snowman0147, GeekyBugle) who similarly claimed that he worked for the Nazis. It is weaseling to say that you're not interpreting or commenting. This is much like the video itself, which tries to insinuate by putting footage of the Holocaust over Soros' dialog in order to cast implications that he doesn't actually say.



I feel like I do re-examine my biases, by reading and engaging with the sources that people here post. I suspect that I'm reading more right-wing sources than you're reading left-wing sources. If I were to read and post links to the Huffington Post or Daily Kos (which I don't) -- would you read them and take them seriously? I'm doubtful.

Ultimately, I believe in objective truth, and that some sources are more reliable than others. There are posts where I've felt more informed about topics on -- like racial IQ studies in some previous threads, say - from S'mon and Alathon. But oggsmash's claims about teenage Soros ratting out Jews and similar doesn't have any substance that I can see.

Doubtful as I get those thrown at me on the regular, and I read them, and consider what they say. Even if they are obviously partisan and biased. Taking them seriously after I've read them, that depends entirely on the content. Obviously you believe your knowledge is superior and that you are more informed, that is par for the course, and of course proves the bias you are saying you re-examine.

I would agree it is would be more questionable if not for the fact that the video was in Soros own words, and it ran on a mainstream, obviously leftist biased show, 60 minutes.

My take on Soros is this, he did some questionable things as a youth, but considering the cirumstances it's hard to completely condemn the 14 year old caught up in a world on fire. However, the adult Soros has a lot to answer for, and he is certainly a conscienceless, totalitarian, globalist piece of shit. So whether I condemn his 14 year old self or not is immaterial. I condemn him now.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GameDaddy on July 24, 2019, 08:10:55 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1092720
Emergency state declared in the Yucatan peninsula because demand exceeds supply of electricity, and the stupid Greens and the stupid and beloved comrade leader are against more nuclear plants. https://amp.elfinanciero.com.mx/peninsula/peninsula-de-yucatan-en-emergencia-por-falta-de-electricidad-cenace?__twitter_impression=true


I'm against nuclear power plants. They are a bunch of super bad accidents just waiting to happen. Cancer rates are up just because above ground testing for fifty years. Then Cherynobl, then Japan. The meltdown in Cherynobl is currently contained in a concrete tomb, but the half life of the meltdown is like 25,000 years or so, so twice as long as we have had recorded history. There is a hundred mile restricted zone around cherynobl, that is getting invaded by retarded tourists. In Japan the meltdown is not contained and is now embedded below see level. Radioactives have been continuously leeching into the Pacific contaminating the entire Ocean all the way to the West Coast of North America, and Tepco have been pumping in water to keep the reaction cool, They now have a huge farm of radioactive storage tanks, just waiting for the next Tsunami to wash all that contamination out into the Pacific.

Update on the Japanese Meltdown.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn-P3qnlB10
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: shuddemell on July 26, 2019, 01:41:26 AM
Cancer rates are up because of weapons testing, not nuclear power plants. Nuclear power is extremely safe overall.

https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/safety-and-security/safety-of-plants/safety-of-nuclear-power-reactors.aspx
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Pat on July 26, 2019, 03:28:55 AM
Quote from: shuddemell;1097047
Cancer rates are up because of weapons testing, not nuclear power plants. Nuclear power is extremely safe overall.

https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/safety-and-security/safety-of-plants/safety-of-nuclear-power-reactors.aspx

No, cancer rates are up because people are living longer and everything gets cancer eventually, the rise in obesity, and a number of other lesser factors like STDs or sun worship. Background radiation due to either weapons tests or power plant accidents is negligible.

Good link, BTW. Here's a more visual one: https://xkcd.com/radiation/
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: jeff37923 on July 26, 2019, 04:40:12 AM
Quote from: GameDaddy;1096875
I'm against nuclear power plants. They are a bunch of super bad accidents just waiting to happen. Cancer rates are up just because above ground testing for fifty years. Then Cherynobl, then Japan. The meltdown in Cherynobl is currently contained in a concrete tomb, but the half life of the meltdown is like 25,000 years or so, so twice as long as we have had recorded history. There is a hundred mile restricted zone around cherynobl, that is getting invaded by retarded tourists. In Japan the meltdown is not contained and is now embedded below see level. Radioactives have been continuously leeching into the Pacific contaminating the entire Ocean all the way to the West Coast of North America, and Tepco have been pumping in water to keep the reaction cool, They now have a huge farm of radioactive storage tanks, just waiting for the next Tsunami to wash all that contamination out into the Pacific.

Update on the Japanese Meltdown.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn-P3qnlB10

Holy shit, I didn't think that you were either that stupid or that gullible.

That video you linked? I only had to watch less than five minutes of it to get all the scaremongering that I could stomach (I especially loved the part where the person speaking confuses the results of a nuclear warhead detonation with a nuclear reactor meltdown).

Stick with talking about games, you'll look smarter.

Maybe.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: shuddemell on July 26, 2019, 05:49:29 AM
Quote from: Pat;1097059
No, cancer rates are up because people are living longer and everything gets cancer eventually, the rise in obesity, and a number of other lesser factors like STDs or sun worship. Background radiation due to either weapons tests or power plant accidents is negligible.

Good link, BTW. Here's a more visual one: https://xkcd.com/radiation/

You are right, I should have said, in immediate proximity to the testing cancer rates might be up due to weapons testing. And that is debatable as well, because even the exposure there is still minimal.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 26, 2019, 11:05:24 AM
Quote from: jhkim;1096240
Seriously?!? shuddemell, I know you're saying that you don't endorse the publication ("Now the End Begins"), but you're still citing it as a reference.

I think the fact that it's the source you found should tell you something about what you're buying into.

And the supposed evidence fits exactly to what I said, and has nothing to support oggsmash's claim that teenage Soros ratted out other Jews.


Genetic fallacy, dismissing the information on the basis of from who/where it comes without talking about it's merits, it's the first place where you find the interview, and the interview is from 60 minutes.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 26, 2019, 11:17:55 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1095124
GeekBugle, the New York Times has a story about Mexico's finance minister quitting, and allegedly firing off a scathing rebuke of the current administration. What's the real story down south?
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/09/world/americas/mexico-minster-urzua.html


Totally true, and regarding the final question on the article, no, our beloved comrade leader learned jack shit, he can't his plan to achieve uyopia by enacting his cult's mandates prevents him from ever learning anything.

Anybody that dares criticize him is part of "la mafia del poder", or some other secret cabal he concocts on a regular basis. So far we have the power cabal, the science cabal, the "conservative" cabal.

He promised no more debt and went and got us deeper in debt. He promised no more corruption and in his inner circle there are several crooks who escaped jail because of our law of "fuero" or because corruption or ineptitude from the prosecutors, some were even caught in camera taking the millions in bribes.

And now hes gonna make a "round up" campaign because he needs 300,000 millions to invest a third per year in PEMEX. This is a campaign where you buy in the supermarket and choose to round up the cents to the next peso. So he needs every mexican (even child and babies) to donate about 1,000 pesos per year for 3 years. And most of us aren't gonna do it.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Pat on July 26, 2019, 01:09:21 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1097094
And now hes gonna make a "round up" campaign because he needs 300,000 millions to invest a third per year in PEMEX. This is a campaign where you buy in the supermarket and choose to round up the cents to the next peso. So he needs every mexican (even child and babies) to donate about 1,000 pesos per year for 3 years. And most of us aren't gonna do it.

People can round up their purchases at the grocery store, and proceeds will be donated to the state oil company? That sounds crazy.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 26, 2019, 02:21:17 PM
Quote from: Pat;1097117
People can round up their purchases at the grocery store, and proceeds will be donated to the state oil company? That sounds crazy.

You got it exactly. It is crazy, it's a white elephant that needs to be sold out. But his followers more likelly will go without eating to feel like the mexicans that donated chickens to Lazaro Cardenas to pay up the expropriation of the oil.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Pat on July 26, 2019, 07:19:37 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1097128
You got it exactly. It is crazy, it's a white elephant that needs to be sold out. But his followers more likelly will go without eating to feel like the mexicans that donated chickens to Lazaro Cardenas to pay up the expropriation of the oil.
That's roughly equivalent to having a telethon or charity ball with all proceeds being donated to the IRS.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 09, 2019, 08:35:52 PM
Quote from: Pat;1097181
That's roughly equivalent to having a telethon or charity ball with all proceeds being donated to the IRS.

BINGO
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 09, 2019, 08:37:25 PM
But it's the right to legally own firearms they tell you. Also México City is way safer than most democrat run shitholes back there.

https://twitter.com/MrElDiablo8/status/1159971296056401921 (https://twitter.com/MrElDiablo8/status/1159971296056401921)
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Gagarth on August 14, 2019, 08:34:14 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1093035
30 million dollars of our taxes "donated" to El Salvador while we have 50 million in poverty, hell he could have donated 10 million pesos each and have some money left. Bum! no more poverty! (for a while) https://www.yucatan.com.mx/mexico/mexico-dona-a-el-salvador-30-millones-de-dolares/amp/


Where did he get the money for this didn't he have sell his jet to pay for border controls?
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 14, 2019, 02:09:45 PM
Quote from: Gagarth;1099374
Where did he get the money for this didn't he have sell his jet to pay for border controls?

from our taxes of course, also he has no jet, he wanted to sell the presidential plane, which isn't even ours, it's a rental.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on August 30, 2019, 07:52:51 PM
GB, what's the story you're hearing on Mexican TV about the African migrants in Mexico?
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 30, 2019, 09:36:04 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1101640
GB, what's the story you're hearing on Mexican TV about the African migrants in Mexico?

You mean the official take? I haven't seen TV in years, but will try and check it.

In the meantime 60+% of Mexicans want all the invaders sent back to their country of origin.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on August 30, 2019, 10:04:25 PM
How did African migrants even get into Mexico? That confused me.

I saw a video showing clashes between the illegals and the Mexican cops. I wondered if that was a single event, or whether there is widespread conflicts in Mexico between the cops and various groups of illegals.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 30, 2019, 10:34:00 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1101656
How did African migrants even get into Mexico? That confused me.

I saw a video showing clashes between the illegals and the Mexican cops. I wondered if that was a single event, or whether there is widespread conflicts in Mexico between the cops and various groups of illegals.

By plain to Brazil and then walked here or took buses.

There have been several clashes, and things are going to get worst, fucking entitled assholes complaining of what's been given to them (by taking from Mexicans) as if we had the obligation of providing them with first class accommodations.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on August 30, 2019, 10:41:16 PM
If they flew into Brazil, why not settle in Brazil?

If they can buy plane tickets, why not settle in Canada directly?

Though I gotta admit, Mexico having problems with illegal aliens is darkly humorous.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: kosmos1214 on August 31, 2019, 12:43:01 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1101662
If they flew into Brazil, why not settle in Brazil?

If they can buy plane tickets, why not settle in Canada directly?

Though I gotta admit, Mexico having problems with illegal aliens is darkly humorous.

Because they are working to enter the usa (likely illegally)  I've seen tim pool  talk about it in a video within the last month.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Zirunel on August 31, 2019, 07:27:40 AM
Quote from: kosmos1214;1101669
Because they are working to enter the usa (likely illegally)  I've seen tim pool  talk about it in a video within the last month.

In many cases, spinachcat is right, their ultimate destination is Canada. Formerly, West African refugee claimants entering from the U.S. mostly got there with valid travel visas (often I believe arriving by plane in NY) then immediately high-tailed it to the Canadian border. Now more are trying the much longer  South American/central American route to the U.S. then overland to Canada (which means hiking across the Darien Gap! Not everyone survives that).

Edited to add: when I typed "spinachcat," my autocorrect changed it to "doomsday!" Weird!
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 31, 2019, 02:42:44 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1101662
If they flew into Brazil, why not settle in Brazil?

If they can buy plane tickets, why not settle in Canada directly?

Though I gotta admit, Mexico having problems with illegal aliens is darkly humorous.

Brazil is not as good as the USA, Canada has a point immigration system (and I would love to see them inundated by illegals so maybe they throw away the trudeaus.

Yeah, for years I and a few others talked against illegal immigration and letting them pass freely as long as they were going to the USA. And now the commie has betrayed his voters, lets see if they wake up.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on August 31, 2019, 05:57:29 PM
Quote from: Zirunel;1101681
when I typed "spinachcat," my autocorrect changed it to "doomsday!" Weird!

The AI knows my true name and destiny!!!
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on August 31, 2019, 08:40:02 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1101709
Yeah, for years I and a few others talked against illegal immigration and letting them pass freely as long as they were going to the USA. And now the commie has betrayed his voters, lets see if they wake up.

I don't blame Mexicans who supported the illegal highway into the USA.

Mexico already has enough challenges taking care of their own people AND the USA has been a shitty neighbor. I'm an unapologetic 'Merica Fuck Yeah patriot, but I'm not blind to our shitty policies. I never understood why the US crows about rebuilding Germany and Japan when we've left Mexico limping. To me, its idiotic on the most selfish level. If Germany and Japan were endangered narco states led by a string of corrupt assholes, the effect on the USA wouldn't be anywhere near the problems Mexico's situation has caused for us.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Zirunel on August 31, 2019, 09:32:24 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1101709
Brazil is not as good as the USA, Canada has a point immigration system (and I would love to see them inundated by illegals so maybe they throw away the trudeaus.

Yeah, for years I and a few others talked against illegal immigration and letting them pass freely as long as they were going to the USA. And now the commie has betrayed his voters, lets see if they wake up.

Well....Yes.......Canada has the points system for immigration. Canada invented the points system. A long time ago. It's flexible (as it should be) but it's been in place for over 50 years.

Not sure why you should care about Justin Trudeau's political fortunes, but I don't think they'll be materially affected by an immigration system in place since long before he was born.

Not to say immigration's not an issue for some. Quebec in particular  has its own unique brand of xenophobia, and it matters, but in general, I don't think it's going to be a make-or-break issue this election.

However, the U.S.  letting people pass freely (or encouraging them to do so) and the big uptick of refugee claimants busting in through the U.S. border does trouble people in Canada, and even if it isn't an election issue, there may be knock-on effects.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Zirunel on August 31, 2019, 09:38:28 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1101725
The AI knows my true name and destiny!!!

Yeah, I thought you might appreciate that! But seriously, I have to say I do not get the logic that makes that transformation.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Zirunel on August 31, 2019, 09:59:39 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1101662
If they flew into Brazil, why not settle in Brazil?

If they can buy plane tickets, why not settle in Canada directly?

Though I gotta admit, Mexico having problems with illegal aliens is darkly humorous.


I think some of the calculus here is that some South American countries have free passage rights. It's not that easy to get permission to stay, but it's easy to get permission to enter if you're moving on...

...And it turns out the U.S. does the same thing! Well gosh darn it, who knew!?
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on August 31, 2019, 11:01:38 PM
If they flew into the US and exited the plane, they would have passports and/or travel visas with some minimal level of vetting so we knew who was entering the country and for how long they were visiting. If you show up with the proper paperwork in the USA, nobody here is going to stop you leaving the US either to the north or south. And unless the person was trying to sneak into Canada or Mexico, they would have the same papers to present at the border so the Canadian or Mexican authorities could decide whether or not to let them in.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: RandyB on September 01, 2019, 10:51:51 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1101749
If they flew into the US and exited the plane, they would have passports and/or travel visas with some minimal level of vetting so we knew who was entering the country and for how long they were visiting. If you show up with the proper paperwork in the USA, nobody here is going to stop you leaving the US either to the north or south. And unless the person was trying to sneak into Canada or Mexico, they would have the same papers to present at the border so the Canadian or Mexican authorities could decide whether or not to let them in.

Which is why they don't fly to the US. That, and whomever was paying for their tickets would be easier to identify.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Zirunel on September 01, 2019, 07:53:55 PM
Quote from: RandyB;1101786
Which is why they don't fly to the US. That, and whomever was paying for their tickets would be easier to identify.

Yeah except they absolutely do fly to the US. With proper tickets and proper visas. Many overstay in the US (a bigger illegal immigration deal than immigrants sneaking across borders) and many have no intention of overstaying in the U.S. they're just in transit looking to flee north to Canada. But you can't say illegal immigrants never use normal legal channels at points of entry, they totally do.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Zirunel on September 01, 2019, 08:03:08 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1101749
If they flew into the US and exited the plane, they would have passports and/or travel visas with some minimal level of vetting so we knew who was entering the country and for how long they were visiting. If you show up with the proper paperwork in the USA, nobody here is going to stop you leaving the US either to the north or south. And unless the person was trying to sneak into Canada or Mexico, they would have the same papers to present at the border so the Canadian or Mexican authorities could decide whether or not to let them in.


Yes, those who travel that way do have passports and do have visas. Obviously, tourist visa applications from West Africa are heavily vetted, so ICE must have a pretty good idea exactly who intends to just flee north and make a refugee claim in Canada, but I don't imagine they care much. Let'em in and send'em on so they'll be someone else's problem. Just like many South and central American countries do. The U.S. seems to be no better and no worse than any other country in the hemisphere that way.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on September 01, 2019, 09:10:30 PM
Quote from: Zirunel;1101835
Yeah except they absolutely do fly to the US. With proper tickets and proper visas. Many overstay in the US (a bigger illegal immigration deal than immigrants sneaking across borders) and many have no intention of overstaying in the U.S. they're just in transit looking to flee north to Canada. But you can't say illegal immigrants never use normal legal channels at points of entry, they totally do.

Some do overstay their visas (most by some accounts) so, those trying to enter by other means must be unable to get a Visa for some reason. Kinda shitty neighbor policy to grant people free pass as long as they plan to invade other people's property don't you think?
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Zirunel on September 01, 2019, 09:59:38 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1101841
Some do overstay their visas (most by some accounts) so, those trying to enter by other means must be unable to get a Visa for some reason. Kinda shitty neighbor policy to grant people free pass as long as they plan to invade other people's property don't you think?

I think that's what I just said. With the proviso that the U.S. isn't just a hapless victim of shitty neighbours, it's actually another actively shitty neighbour, doing the same ol pass'em along thing.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on September 01, 2019, 10:33:25 PM
Quote from: Zirunel;1101848
I think that's what I just said. With the proviso that the U.S. isn't just a hapless victim of shitty neighbours, it's actually another actively shitty neighbour, doing the same ol pass'em along thing.

Yeah, and the fact that everybody is doing it makes it even worst.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Zirunel on September 02, 2019, 06:01:22 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1101850
Yeah, and the fact that everybody is doing it makes it even worst.

Yes. And it's surely significant that in both Canada and the US, illegal immigration issues are lately morphing into refugee claim issues. Certainly in Canada, and I think in the U.S. too, immigrants and refugees have completely different legal status. As they should, in my opinion, but if some are gaming the system to enter as refugees when they are really immigrants, then that just muddies the waters for people with valid refugee claims, whether from central America or west Africa or wherever. I don't know about you, but I believe in compassionate and generous refugee policy and I don't like to see that endangered by games.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on September 02, 2019, 06:54:17 PM
Quote from: Zirunel;1101932
Yes. And it's surely significant that in both Canada and the US, illegal immigration issues are lately morphing into refugee claim issues. Certainly in Canada, and I think in the U.S. too, immigrants and refugees have completely different legal status. As they should, in my opinion, but if some are gaming the system to enter as refugees when they are really immigrants, then that just muddies the waters for people with valid refugee claims, whether from central America or west Africa or wherever. I don't know about you, but I believe in compassionate and generous refugee policy and I don't like to see that endangered by games.

Same here, but lets say you're a real refugee from west Africa, isn't the international law that you should stay in the first safe country? Meaning the first country where those who wish to harm you (or safe from the natural disaster) can't touch you you set foot in. This means they should stay in Brazil, by not doing so they become migrants. And there's not such thing as an economic refugee, those are economic migrants.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Zirunel on September 02, 2019, 07:52:45 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1101941
Same here, but lets say you're a real refugee from west Africa, isn't the international law that you should stay in the first safe country? Meaning the first country where those who wish to harm you (or safe from the natural disaster) can't touch you you set foot in. This means they should stay in Brazil, by not doing so they become migrants. And there's not such thing as an economic refugee, those are economic migrants.

Again, I think that's what I just said.

However, no, as far as I know there is no international law regarding "first safe countries" for refugees. That is something bilaterally agreed between nations, but not international law. Canada and the US have such an agreement. Canada honours it, the U.S.doesn't. Same old same old, that's just the way the U.S. rolls.

 The U.S. has been insisting on getting similar agreements with Guatemala (which I think has been signed) and other countries as well. Those countries will be expected to honour those agreements. The U.S. won't, of course, because that's the way the U.S. rolls.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on September 02, 2019, 10:15:08 PM
Quote from: Zirunel;1101953
Again, I think that's what I just said.

However, no, as far as I know there is no international law regarding "first safe countries" for refugees. That is something bilaterally agreed between nations, but not international law. Canada and the US have such an agreement. Canada honours it, the U.S.doesn't. Same old same old, that's just the way the U.S. rolls.

 The U.S. has been insisting on getting similar agreements with Guatemala (which I think has been signed) and other countries as well. Those countries will be expected to honour those agreements. The U.S. won't, of course, because that's the way the U.S. rolls.


I beg to differ (https://www.refworld.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/rwmain/opendocpdf.pdf?reldoc=y&docid=4bab55da2)
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Zirunel on September 02, 2019, 10:38:54 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1101974
I beg to differ (https://www.refworld.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/rwmain/opendocpdf.pdf?reldoc=y&docid=4bab55da2)

Read it again. That document explicitly disclaims any status of first country of asylum as international law. For example:
 
"It should be noted that Member States are not required to apply the concept of first country of asylum, as Article 26 is a permissive provision."

At most, it is a set of guidelines for parties to consider when entering into agreements about first country/ third country.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on September 03, 2019, 12:15:16 AM
Quote from: Zirunel;1101980
Read it again. That document explicitly disclaims any status of first country of asylum as international law. For example:
 
"It should be noted that Member States are not required to apply the concept of first country of asylum, as Article 26 is a permissive provision."

At most, it is a set of guidelines for parties to consider when entering into agreements about first country/ third country.

Read it again, "It should be noted that Member States are not required to apply the concept of first country of asylum, as Article 26 is a permissive provision." (emphasis mine).

Not required doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but that a state can choose not to apply the concept on deciding if an asylum seeker's claim is or not valid.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: jhkim on September 10, 2019, 06:46:45 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1101941
Same here, but lets say you're a real refugee from west Africa, isn't the international law that you should stay in the first safe country? Meaning the first country where those who wish to harm you (or safe from the natural disaster) can't touch you you set foot in. This means they should stay in Brazil, by not doing so they become migrants. And there's not such thing as an economic refugee, those are economic migrants.
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1101992
Read it again, "It should be noted that Member States are not required to apply the concept of first country of asylum, as Article 26 is a permissive provision." (emphasis mine).

Not required doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but that a state can choose not to apply the concept on deciding if an asylum seeker's claim is or not valid.

If it's not required to do something, then it's not a law, though. You had claimed that it was international law, which implies that it's required.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on September 10, 2019, 07:07:18 PM
Quote from: jhkim;1103375
If it's not required to do something, then it's not a law, though. You had claimed that it was international law, which implies that it's required.

No sir, it just means this law can be ignored if the state wishes to. If it didn't exist or wasn't par of international law it wouldn't be in the books.

Take passports for instance, or green cards or visas, your government can ( and has in the past) ignored it's own laws, because it can.

Why would the international law be nobody can ignore this law? What if my country wants or needs mass migration to be culturally enriched? Under what right other countries can make us not do it?

What if we decide not to ask for passports from anybody?

It's the same, international law is to protect human rights and commerce, as long as you're not violating those international courts/laws hold no power over you. Therefore you can safely ignore laws as long as you're not violating human rights or commerce law.

The law says you can ask for X not that you must ask for X. get it now?
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on October 18, 2019, 10:30:52 AM
So, the normalistas ("students" in a "university" for teachers) kidnapped 92 people, their punishment? They got jobs in the education system!

A week later the son of El Chapo is arrested, his goons terrorize Culiacan, Chapito is released because our government can't stop the narcos.

https://twitter.com/El_Universal_Mx/status/1185149775936507909 (https://twitter.com/El_Universal_Mx/status/1185149775936507909)
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: ArrozConLeche on October 19, 2019, 07:18:26 AM
Wow, I can't  believe  they released him.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on October 19, 2019, 11:45:57 AM
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;1110713
Wow, I can't  believe  they released him.

I do, our commandant in chief has no balls.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on October 19, 2019, 10:53:50 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1110532
So, the normalistas ("students" in a "university" for teachers) kidnapped 92 people, their punishment? They got jobs in the education system!


Explain! What happened and why?

Is there a national outcry?
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on October 19, 2019, 10:59:24 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1110815
Explain! What happened and why?

Is there a national outcry?

There's a number of colleges to become a teacher, many of them are breeding grounds for commies and as you can see criminals. Students from one of these colleges kidnapped 92 people as part of their demands to get jobs in the public school system. Our beloved and ball-less comrade leader gave them the jobs. Of course anybody with two braincells and some principles/common sense is fucking furious.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on October 19, 2019, 11:10:16 PM
Video of the moment they kidnap the drivers

https://www.excelsior.com.mx/comunidad/video-capta-momento-en-que-normalistas-secuestran-autobuses-en-el-edomex/1340583 (https://www.excelsior.com.mx/comunidad/video-capta-momento-en-que-normalistas-secuestran-autobuses-en-el-edomex/1340583)

They kidnapped the 92 to demand 84 jobs, the government said yes. https://www.laotraopinion.com.mx/normalistas-secuestran-92-autobuses-gobierno-los-premia-con-84-plazas-automaticas/ (https://www.laotraopinion.com.mx/normalistas-secuestran-92-autobuses-gobierno-los-premia-con-84-plazas-automaticas/)
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on October 20, 2019, 12:50:12 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1110817
There's a number of colleges to become a teacher, many of them are breeding grounds for commies and as you can see criminals. Students from one of these colleges kidnapped 92 people as part of their demands to get jobs in the public school system. Our beloved and ball-less comrade leader gave them the jobs. Of course anybody with two braincells and some principles/common sense is fucking furious.


It's gonna be weird when your kid's new teacher is literally a kidnapper!

This is deep in crazy town. Was there a danger they would not get jobs in the public school system as graduates of these teaching programs? Is teacher unemployment a big problem? As an ex-teacher myself, it's hard to picture my former colleagues kidnapping anyone, so this sounds like hardcore commie indoctrination for a wanna-be teacher to become a criminal.

And is there a public outcry against the kidnappers? Or is this the new graduation ritual?

Because now that this criminal tactic has worked once, I won't be surprised to see more college kids decide its a good route.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on October 20, 2019, 01:00:41 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1110836
It's gonna be weird when your kid's new teacher is literally a kidnapper!

This is deep in crazy town. Was there a danger they would not get jobs in the public school system as graduates of these teaching programs? Is teacher unemployment a big problem? As an ex-teacher myself, it's hard to picture my former colleagues kidnapping anyone, so this sounds like hardcore commie indoctrination for a wanna-be teacher to become a criminal.

And is there a public outcry against the kidnappers? Or is this the new graduation ritual?

Because now that this criminal tactic has worked once, I won't be surprised to see more college kids decide its a good route.

My boy is 20, no chance of that, and hopefully his kids (if he has any) will grow in a less fucked up México/world or in a more sane country if I can help it.

It's not jobs it's plazas, I don't know the words in English but let me try and explain it. A plaza is a job where you can't be fired, the worst the government can do is to put you at the disposal of the union, which will ask you to go every day 8 hours to their office and sit on your thumbs.

It is hard core commie indoctrination, past administrations courted hard the unions, as such the unions have huge power, also since I was a little child 40+ years ago in school the books were heavily slanted to the left. Much worse in the teacher colleges.

There's a public outcry, but not enough, for this to never happen again it would need to be a huge scandal, and I don't see it.

So, this will happen again, and again until some more students end up dead in a shallow grave. And then there will be outcry, because they poor students dindunuffin.

México is fucked an it will take a huge crisis or many decades to fix it, and those who have any idea of how to don't want to educate people for free because they are idiots who don't see it's not for free, it's for their own benefit.

I'm surrounded mostly by idiots.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Pat on October 20, 2019, 01:29:35 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1110840
It's not jobs it's plazas, I don't know the words in English but let me try and explain it. A plaza is a job where you can't be fired, the worst the government can do is to put you at the disposal of the union, which will ask you to go every day 8 hours to their office and sit on your thumbs.
Sounds like a classic union job. I know some UAW workers at GM who did exactly that -- showed up, punched in, and sat around watching TV for 8 hours a day, after their plant was closed. Lasted for years, until they were finally placed at another plant. Government jobs have a similar reputation.

So the concept is familiar, even if there doesn't appear to be an exact correlate to the word, in English. Though sinecure is close (the job isn't guaranteed, but it's pay for no real work, and is often handed out as a reward).
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on October 20, 2019, 01:33:04 AM
Quote from: Pat;1110846
Sounds like a classic union job. I know some UAW workers at GM who did exactly that -- showed up, punched in, and sat around watching TV for 8 hours a day, after their plant was closed. Lasted for years, until they were finally placed at another plant. Government jobs have a similar reputation.

So the concept is familiar, even if there doesn't appear to be an exact correlate to the word, in English. Though sinecure is close (the job isn't guaranteed, but it's pay for no real work, and is often handed out as a reward).

Yeah, pretty much the same thing.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on October 22, 2019, 07:09:26 PM
Kimberly-Clark has no plans to invest in México (https://twitter.com/revistaproceso/status/1186472251157307392) due to the economic deceleration. I guess our beloved comrade leader will stay true to form and blame past administrations of this too. Or maybe he'll demand someone from his cabinet resigns, like he did after the El Chapito debacle in Culiacán.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: ElBorak on October 31, 2019, 03:20:43 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1101731
I don't blame Mexicans who supported the illegal highway into the USA.

Mexico already has enough challenges taking care of their own people AND the USA has been a shitty neighbor. I'm an unapologetic 'Merica Fuck Yeah patriot, but I'm not blind to our shitty policies. I never understood why the US crows about rebuilding Germany and Japan when we've left Mexico limping. To me, its idiotic on the most selfish level. If Germany and Japan were endangered narco states led by a string of corrupt assholes, the effect on the USA wouldn't be anywhere near the problems Mexico's situation has caused for us.



We've had many opportunities and lots of good reason to annex Mexico and we have always been too stupid to do it. It would be cheaper for the taxpayer in the long run if we had just annexed Central America too and outright own the canal.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: David Johansen on November 03, 2019, 01:20:52 PM
What I'd like to see is a united North America under a new constitution.  I think Canada would need Mexico to help balance the United States population.  Mind you, most Canadians hate Americans so it'll never happen.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on November 07, 2019, 04:09:03 AM
Mexican cartels blew away a bunch of Mormons, including little kids.
The Mormons were Americans, thus their deaths are super cereal, unlike the deaths of Mexicans by the cartels.
Trump wants to declare WAR on the cartels and just needs the Mexican Presidente to give the USA a thumbs up.

Geeky, how's all of this being reported about in Mexico? Any chance of Mexico taking up Trump's offer to have the USA take on the cartels?

My bet is zero, and I doubt the USA will declare the cartels as terrorists. We like our cocaine too much!
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Warboss Squee on November 07, 2019, 08:42:50 PM
Quote from: David Johansen;1112874
What I'd like to see is a united North America under a new constitution.  I think Canada would need Mexico to help balance the United States population.  Mind you, most Canadians hate Americans so it'll never happen.

I cringe at the thought of the heavily Left Canadians joining forces with the American Left to write a Constitutional document.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on November 07, 2019, 10:10:08 PM
Write??? You mean with words??? What kind of monster are you?

The written word is how the hetero-normative patriarchy oppresses indigenous peoples!!

Instead, these brave Leftists shall replace the vile Constitution with an interpretative dance!
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: David Johansen on November 08, 2019, 12:38:11 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1113197
Mexican cartels blew away a bunch of Mormons, including little kids.
The Mormons were Americans, thus their deaths are super cereal, unlike the deaths of Mexicans by the cartels.
Trump wants to declare WAR on the cartels and just needs the Mexican Presidente to give the USA a thumbs up.

Geeky, how's all of this being reported about in Mexico? Any chance of Mexico taking up Trump's offer to have the USA take on the cartels?

My bet is zero, and I doubt the USA will declare the cartels as terrorists. We like our cocaine too much!

Pretty strong odds they were polygamist fundamentalists too.  There was a Vice TV episode where they went down to Mexico and interviewed polygamist colonists in Mexico.  They got into fire fights with the army because the narcos sometimes wear army uniforms.

As for Canada, it's not as left as you might think.  It's just that the major population centers are far left.  The rural areas are generally pretty far right even in Ontario and British Columbia.  Quebec is a weird case loving corporate and social welfare and hating immigrants.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on November 08, 2019, 05:28:19 AM
Quote from: David Johansen;1113291
Pretty strong odds they were polygamist fundamentalists too.


Agreed. I'm expecting that shoe to drop any day now.


Quote from: David Johansen;1113291
As for Canada, it's not as left as you might think.


The humankind of Canada re-elected Captain Blackface!
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on November 08, 2019, 11:31:25 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1113197
Mexican cartels blew away a bunch of Mormons, including little kids.
The Mormons were Americans, thus their deaths are super cereal, unlike the deaths of Mexicans by the cartels.
Trump wants to declare WAR on the cartels and just needs the Mexican Presidente to give the USA a thumbs up.

Geeky, how's all of this being reported about in Mexico? Any chance of Mexico taking up Trump's offer to have the USA take on the cartels?

My bet is zero, and I doubt the USA will declare the cartels as terrorists. We like our cocaine too much!


It was a scandal for about a day.

By now you might now that our beloved comrade leader said no.

I knew that was going to be the answer for several reasons:

Obrador might be in the cartels' payroll.

He thinks the policies of commiefornia are a good idea.

And your governments have made it a custom to go into another country and then never leave (and to impose your will on other people).

That all said I wish he had said yes.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on November 09, 2019, 05:24:25 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1113328
And your governments have made it a custom to go into another country and then never leave (and to impose your will on other people).

That's quite true.

Hopefully Trump will be the president to nut up and declare the cartels to be terrorists. Then, its a whole different story about how they're treated.  

I'm not holding my breath.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on November 09, 2019, 11:05:08 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1113403
That's quite true.

Hopefully Trump will be the president to nut up and declare the cartels to be terrorists. Then, its a whole different story about how they're treated.  

I'm not holding my breath.

They aren't terrorists only because they don't want political change.

They should still be hunted like animals.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Snowman0147 on November 09, 2019, 02:03:15 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1113417
They aren't terrorists only because they don't want political change.

They should still be hunted like animals.

Why would they want political change?  As far as I am concern they ARE the rulers of Mexico.  The legal "government" are just the pigs that need to be feed every once and a while.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on November 10, 2019, 04:22:51 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1113417
They aren't terrorists only because they don't want political change.

Disagree. They aren't a political group, but they are violent anarchists because they kill law enforcement and use their power and influence to disrupt the lives of citizens. Also, we know multiple terrorist organizations are tied to the drug trade, thus the cartels are somewhere in the terrorist's chain of supply or sales.


Quote from: GeekyBugle;1113417
They should still be hunted like animals.

Agreed. They are a blight upon our species. Yes, I know they would not exist if there wasn't such a high demand for their goodies, and yes, I know that killing one cartel only means the next one cartel takes their place in the hierarchy, but so be it. Keep killing cartels until the reward isn't worth the risk.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on November 10, 2019, 08:06:43 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1113451
Disagree. They aren't a political group, but they are violent anarchists because they kill law enforcement and use their power and influence to disrupt the lives of citizens. Also, we know multiple terrorist organizations are tied to the drug trade, thus the cartels are somewhere in the terrorist's chain of supply or sales.




Agreed. They are a blight upon our species. Yes, I know they would not exist if there wasn't such a high demand for their goodies, and yes, I know that killing one cartel only means the next one cartel takes their place in the hierarchy, but so be it. Keep killing cartels until the reward isn't worth the risk.

Nope, you go in strong and fast, kill them, eliminate the laws that create the black market and confiscate their bank accounts, properties, etc. So no time for a new cartel to form and no incentive either. Make it legal, everything, and if some die then so be it, Darwin always wins.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on November 11, 2019, 10:06:39 PM
I'm all for wiping the cartels out and taking their stuff, but the problem with "all drugs are legal" is shit like crack and meth doesn't kill (for many years), but leaves us with hordes of addicted idiots useless to society and sucking down our resources.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: jhkim on November 12, 2019, 01:17:52 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1113592
I'm all for wiping the cartels out and taking their stuff, but the problem with "all drugs are legal" is shit like crack and meth doesn't kill (for many years), but leaves us with hordes of addicted idiots useless to society and sucking down our resources.
Putting hundreds of thousands of people in jail over drugs makes them useless to society and sucking down resources, too, though. I'm not a hard line that all drugs should be unrestricted, but I think there's good reason to think that broad prohibition doesn't make the population more productive. It drives black markets, criminality, corruption, and abuse -- as well as overflowing our prisons.

It is a stain on the U.S. that we are paying billions of dollars to fund the Mexican drug cartels, the sheer size of which is destabilizing that country.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on November 12, 2019, 04:08:54 AM
Mass incarceration for drugs has been a huge failure. Heroin, crack and meth addicts need treatment more than jail, but treatment is expensive and has a high failure rate unless the addict intensely wants to quit and reclaim their life.

I don't know what legalizing all drugs will do, but I don't see legalization of "hard drugs" being the solution. I agree we have a massive addiction crisis in the USA and its fueling the cartels to do incredible harm to Mexico and other nations in Central and South America.  

The War on Drugs has been a complete failure, except for those private companies sucking down the gov't billions, but what's the solution?

My best answer is to kill the drug producers, and when new ones step into the role, kill them too. Perhaps after a decade of little to no availability, the populace's love of drugs will mellow out. But I'm most probably wrong, since humans are made of dumb, meth addiction will probably just explode bigger since the idiots can make it in their garage. Instead of crack, it will be bath salts and we'll have the same issues we have today.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Gagarth on November 12, 2019, 06:46:22 AM
Quote from: jhkim;1113612
Putting hundreds of thousands of people in jail over drugs makes them useless to society and sucking down resources, too, though. I'm not a hard line that all drugs should be unrestricted, but I think there's good reason to think that broad prohibition doesn't make the population more productive. It drives black markets, criminality, corruption, and abuse -- as well as overflowing our prisons.

It is a stain on the U.S. that we are paying billions of dollars to fund the Mexican drug cartels, the sheer size of which is destabilizing that country.

Your are very vague, as usual, with your solution.  But your solution would mean legalising  drugs like Meth, Heroin and Crack.  Get your head out of the clouds.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: jhkim on November 12, 2019, 02:23:30 PM
Quote from: jhkim;1113612
Putting hundreds of thousands of people in jail over drugs makes them useless to society and sucking down resources, too, though. I'm not a hard line that all drugs should be unrestricted, but I think there's good reason to think that broad prohibition doesn't make the population more productive. It drives black markets, criminality, corruption, and abuse -- as well as overflowing our prisons.

It is a stain on the U.S. that we are paying billions of dollars to fund the Mexican drug cartels, the sheer size of which is destabilizing that country.
Quote from: Gagarth;1113623
Your are very vague, as usual, with your solution.  But your solution would mean legalising  drugs like Meth, Heroin and Crack.  Get your head out of the clouds.
Sorry that wasn't clearly written - I was contrasting myself with GeekyBugle, who said that all drugs should be legal, while I was trying to say I *don't* take that hard line. Though you should look at Portugal - which has completely legalized drugs, and doesn't seem to be a disaster. That said, I'm wary of that approach, and would want to move more towards the Swiss approach. Here's an article on it:

https://ssir.org/articles/entry/inside_switzerlands_radical_drug_policy_innovation

I would start from classifying recreational drugs according to their measurable harm according to medical experts. By any reasonable standard marijuana, LSD, and Ecstasy are safer than alcohol or cigarettes and should be similarly legalized. Recreational drugs should be legalized the same way that food additives or medical drugs are legalized -- based on study.

Laws should be focused on creating incentives to disrupt the black markets. For example, I've heard that decriminalizing personal possession makes it easier for the police to work with users to catch drug dealers. More broadly, criminalization isn't the only way to reduce drug use. I note how cigarette smoking has hugely decreased - especially among teens - despite there not being any laws against tobacco possession and there being legal tobacco distribution.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Gagarth on November 13, 2019, 05:52:48 AM
Quote from: jhkim;1113667
Sorry that wasn't clearly written - I was contrasting myself with GeekyBugle, who said that all drugs should be legal, while I was trying to say I *don't* take that hard line. Though you should look at Portugal - which has completely legalized drugs, and doesn't seem to be a disaster. That said, I'm wary of that approach, and would want to move more towards the Swiss approach. Here's an article on it:


Portugal has not legalised drugs.  It has decriminalised drug possession of less than a 10 day supply and made it a civil offence with the following effects.

Fines, ranging from 25 to 150 euros. These figures are based on the Portuguese minimum wage of about 485 Euros (Banco de Portugal, 2001) and translate into hours of work lost.
Suspension of the right to practice if the user has a licensed profession (e.g. medical doctor, taxi driver) and may endanger another person or someone's possessions.
Ban on visiting certain places (e.g. specific clubbing venues).
Ban on associating with specific other persons.
Foreign travel ban.
Requirement to report periodically to the committee.
Withdrawal of the right to carry a gun.
Confiscation of personal possessions.
Cessation of subsidies or allowances that a person receives from a public agency.

I do not see that last one being to popular.  Portugal is a much smaller country and what would be the effect of their liberal possession laws if gangs were pumping in Fentanyl  at the levels the Cartels and Chinese gangs are in the U.S.
 

QUOTE=jhkim;1113667]
I would start from classifying recreational drugs according to their measurable harm according to medical experts. By any reasonable standard marijuana, LSD, and Ecstasy are safer than alcohol or cigarettes and should be similarly legalized. Recreational drugs should be legalized the same way that food additives or medical drugs are legalized -- based on study.[/QUOTE]

Having spent a large amount of time with long term and habitual users of marijuana the long term effects are not insignificant especially with the strains available today. Have you thought about all the results of legalising  all drugs? It is not just a matter of reducing prison populations.  Think about the effects of alcohol and multiple that exponentially.

.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Gagarth on November 13, 2019, 06:29:26 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1113621
Mass incarceration for drugs has been a huge failure. Heroin, crack and meth addicts need treatment more than jail, but treatment is expensive and has a high failure rate unless the addict intensely wants to quit and reclaim their life.
.

When you talk about mass incarceration for drugs is it in general or for drugs possession. Is there really mass incarceration for drug possession?


[ATTACH=CONFIG]3981[/ATTACH]

A major factor in the number of people incarcerated, I would think,  is the number of people on remand because of insane bail amounts  and flight risk.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on November 15, 2019, 12:28:48 AM
Quote from: Gagarth;1113748
When you talk about mass incarceration for drugs is it in general or for drugs possession. Is there really mass incarceration for drug possession?


That's a good chart, but oddly Drug Crime vs. Drug Possession is only broken down for State prison. Of course, there's probably lots of crossover there. What would be interesting is a breakdown of how many Violent Crimes and Property Crimes also involve Drug Crime. AKA, how much of our TOTAL crime is Drug-related vs. unrelated?


Quote from: Gagarth;1113748
A major factor in the number of people incarcerated, I would think,  is the number of people on remand because of insane bail amounts  and flight risk.


Bail is total mess. Make it too low, people fly the coop. Make it too high, people are imprisoned for being poor.

The biggest factor in the incarceration numbers is the recidivism rate.

According to a 2005 Bureau of Justice Statistics study which tracked 404,638 prisoners in 30 states after their release from prison,  the researchers found that:

    Within three years of release, about two-thirds (67.8 percent) of released prisoners were rearrested.
    Within five years of release, about three-quarters (76.6 percent) of released prisoners were rearrested.


https://thecrimereport.org/2018/04/09/recidivism-rates-unacceptably-high-says-sessions/
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on November 15, 2019, 12:55:23 AM
Quote from: Gagarth;1113745
Having spent a large amount of time with long term and habitual users of marijuana the long term effects are not insignificant especially with the strains available today. Have you thought about all the results of legalising  all drugs? It is not just a matter of reducing prison populations.  Think about the effects of alcohol and multiple that exponentially.


We know prohibition and selective enforcement are failed options. I advocated for medical marijuana laws (but not recreational) based on weed's medical value, but there's no question that heavy use and abuse of pot has long term negative health effects (especially if they smoke weed instead of medicating with edibles). I've read about the medicinal benefits of LSD and I can see reasons for LSD (and some other hallucinogenics) to be decriminalized, but they also have their long term health issues if abused. That's the magic word: abused. AKA, like booze, there are users and there are abusers.  

But these health effects are nothing compared to meth, crack, opioids and crazy shit like bath salts. Even if we saved money on incarceration and law enforcement, we'd probably bleed more money in the healthcare sector taking care of the addicts. Also, how much crime happens today due to addicts getting the money to buy their fix? That's another factor to be considered.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Alathon on November 15, 2019, 03:02:01 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1113592
I'm all for wiping the cartels out and taking their stuff, but the problem with "all drugs are legal" is shit like crack and meth doesn't kill (for many years), but leaves us with hordes of addicted idiots useless to society and sucking down our resources.

When they rob for their habit, hang 'em high.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on December 01, 2019, 10:55:59 PM
Geeky, I heard about the 21 dead in the cartel gun battle, but interested in how the Mexican press is covering the incident. Does this happen much more regularly than the US press ever mentions?
https://www.foxnews.com/world/mexico-cartel-member-gunbattle-police-texas-border

BTW, that article has pics of trucks with Texas plates advertising their cartel affiliation on the side. Not kidding.

Also, there are rumblings that Trump is going to label the major cartels as terrorists. In the US press, we heard Obrador claims he has plans for Mexico alone to handle the cartels and refuses any assistance. What's the press vs. people have to say about that?

My bet? Trump gets the cartels labeled as terrorists and then drone strikes them...and does it at least twice between now and the election. Unsure if he'd do it within Mexico's borders without Obrador's permission, but any country which gives Trump the green light is going to see drone strikes on cartel assets.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: SHARK on December 01, 2019, 11:21:07 PM
Greetings!

Interestingly, while Mexico embracing US military intervention or help is sensitive, and unlikely--I also know many Hispanic people would welcome it. On another level, while the Mexican President tap dances around official "help" from the US--lots of that talk in the press seems to be jockeying and ego-stroking--I did read that Mexico agreed that the FBI would come to Mexico and help them with the investigations concerning the cartel murders of Mexican-American citizens.

By some way, somehow, politically, whatever. I know US military intervention in Mexico would cause lots of hysteria. On a moral level, however, I wish it wasn't so. Morally, *relationally*--Mexico is our friend, and fuck, 30% of our country is Mexican, with relatives and family actually living throughout Mexico. Mexico is on our border, and Mexico's security, safety, and happiness is a very real "National Security Interest" of America. You damn right it is. Few other things actually add up to qualifying as a national security interest like the security of Mexico does for us. Our friends, our relatives and family, are being raped, robbed, and slaughtered down there by a bunch of vicious *terrorist* gangs. These cartels need to be hunted down and exterminated. That's right. How about having real humanitarian concern for our Mexican friends? These people down there are terrified, and suffering. I wish we could sweep down there, and liberate them. Forget greedy companies and profits. I'm talking about honestly working with good Mexicans, and sincerely standing with them, shoulder to shoulder, to go from town to town and state to state, and crush the cartels. Bring true freedom and security to the Mexican people. Fight, fight, fight, and get it done. When our Mexican friends are satisfied, safe, and happy, we pack up our toys and come back home. Knowing we stepped in, and helped our neighbor fight off some fucking animal marauders.

I wish we could do that for Mexico. In the bargain, yeah, it also serves to make us safer as well. A legitimate need for everyone involved. Fuck some overseas Middle Eastern shithole. We have friends right here that need our help! THAT is a military involvement for America that would be genuinely needed, meaningful, and morally good and justified.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on January 17, 2020, 12:43:38 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1115450
Geeky, I heard about the 21 dead in the cartel gun battle, but interested in how the Mexican press is covering the incident. Does this happen much more regularly than the US press ever mentions?
https://www.foxnews.com/world/mexico-cartel-member-gunbattle-police-texas-border

BTW, that article has pics of trucks with Texas plates advertising their cartel affiliation on the side. Not kidding.

Also, there are rumblings that Trump is going to label the major cartels as terrorists. In the US press, we heard Obrador claims he has plans for Mexico alone to handle the cartels and refuses any assistance. What's the press vs. people have to say about that?

My bet? Trump gets the cartels labeled as terrorists and then drone strikes them...and does it at least twice between now and the election. Unsure if he'd do it within Mexico's borders without Obrador's permission, but any country which gives Trump the green light is going to see drone strikes on cartel assets.

Much more frequently yes, but it's not news when it happens to poor people of strictly Mexican nationality.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on January 17, 2020, 12:46:54 PM
Our beloved comrade leader's latest brilliant idea: To get rid of the Presidential Plane he wants to make a lotto 500 pesos per ticket.

But the worst news is that those who voted for him are very happy, I think they see themselves the proud owners of a plane, ignoring they would need to pay taxes over the prize, just 1% but of over 6MUSD :) Besides other expenses just to own it, Do they think they can park it on the street outside their house?

https://www.eluniversal.com.mx/nacion/amlo-podrian-rifar-avion-presidencial-boleto-costaria-500-pesos#imagen-1
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on January 17, 2020, 12:47:49 PM
Quote from: SHARK;1115452
Greetings!

Interestingly, while Mexico embracing US military intervention or help is sensitive, and unlikely--I also know many Hispanic people would welcome it. On another level, while the Mexican President tap dances around official "help" from the US--lots of that talk in the press seems to be jockeying and ego-stroking--I did read that Mexico agreed that the FBI would come to Mexico and help them with the investigations concerning the cartel murders of Mexican-American citizens.

By some way, somehow, politically, whatever. I know US military intervention in Mexico would cause lots of hysteria. On a moral level, however, I wish it wasn't so. Morally, *relationally*--Mexico is our friend, and fuck, 30% of our country is Mexican, with relatives and family actually living throughout Mexico. Mexico is on our border, and Mexico's security, safety, and happiness is a very real "National Security Interest" of America. You damn right it is. Few other things actually add up to qualifying as a national security interest like the security of Mexico does for us. Our friends, our relatives and family, are being raped, robbed, and slaughtered down there by a bunch of vicious *terrorist* gangs. These cartels need to be hunted down and exterminated. That's right. How about having real humanitarian concern for our Mexican friends? These people down there are terrified, and suffering. I wish we could sweep down there, and liberate them. Forget greedy companies and profits. I'm talking about honestly working with good Mexicans, and sincerely standing with them, shoulder to shoulder, to go from town to town and state to state, and crush the cartels. Bring true freedom and security to the Mexican people. Fight, fight, fight, and get it done. When our Mexican friends are satisfied, safe, and happy, we pack up our toys and come back home. Knowing we stepped in, and helped our neighbor fight off some fucking animal marauders.

I wish we could do that for Mexico. In the bargain, yeah, it also serves to make us safer as well. A legitimate need for everyone involved. Fuck some overseas Middle Eastern shithole. We have friends right here that need our help! THAT is a military involvement for America that would be genuinely needed, meaningful, and morally good and justified.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Honestly I was hoping we would be annexed an to become the next 30+ states of the union. No such luck.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on January 17, 2020, 08:19:16 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1119352
Much more frequently yes, but it's not news when it happens to poor people of strictly Mexican nationality.

US news only cares about US dead. No question. But what about the news in Mexico?  Are the cartel murders and collateral damage in the drug wars discussed on the nightly news? Are the murders common public conversation?


Quote from: GeekyBugle;1119356
Honestly I was hoping we would be annexed an to become the next 30+ states of the union. No such luck.

Keep looking for oil!!! :mad:

I've often wondered about the viability of a North American super-state, but I think collapse of Canada, USA and Mexico into smaller nation-states is probably more realistic. Canada is already showing its own cultural divisions between provinces and those could easily grow to become unbridgeable. The USA is already there with a unbridgeable culture divide which is on the verge of going hot.

How is Mexico in terms of cultural integrity and unity? And where there's divisions, how significant are they?

BTW, Geeky, you should consider doing a YouTube channel discussing Mexico. You would be surprised by the number of Americans who would be interested in learning WTF is going on down south since our news is rather piss poor discussing anything, especially anything outside our borders. Everything is political narrative.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on January 17, 2020, 09:47:10 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1119401
US news only cares about US dead. No question. But what about the news in Mexico?  Are the cartel murders and collateral damage in the drug wars discussed on the nightly news? Are the murders common public conversation? .

I meant in our news, unless it's a cartel capo jail break, some tourists, a journo or a politician it doesn't make the news.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1119401
Keep looking for oil!!! :mad:

No use our beloved comrade leader plans to sell it to China

Quote from: Spinachcat;1119401
I've often wondered about the viability of a North American super-state, but I think collapse of Canada, USA and Mexico into smaller nation-states is probably more realistic. Canada is already showing its own cultural divisions between provinces and those could easily grow to become unbridgeable. The USA is already there with a unbridgeable culture divide which is on the verge of going hot.

How is Mexico in terms of cultural integrity and unity? And where there's divisions, how significant are they?

BTW, Geeky, you should consider doing a YouTube channel discussing Mexico. You would be surprised by the number of Americans who would be interested in learning WTF is going on down south since our news is rather piss poor discussing anything, especially anything outside our borders. Everything is political narrative.

Our culture is mostly good, but we're importing batshit crazy gringo shit from your universities at breakneck speed, so I don't see that lasting much. I think after the woke collapse (if it does) we'll revert to a more sane culture about 10 years after you guys.

Thanks for the suggestion, will take it into serious consideration.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on January 17, 2020, 11:32:01 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1119405
I meant in our news, unless it's a cartel capo jail break, some tourists, a journo or a politician it doesn't make the news.


Why doesn't the murder of the poor make the news?

In the US, we have a saying about news "if it bleeds, it leads" so gang vs. gang violence and gang vs. innocent bystander stories are favorites.


Quote from: GeekyBugle;1119405
Our culture is mostly good, but we're importing batshit crazy gringo shit from your universities at breakneck speed, so I don't see that lasting much.


"Batshit crazy gringo shit" is our #1 educational export!

What cultural divide in Mexico do you see the SJWs in your universities trying to create or exacerbate?
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on January 17, 2020, 11:39:11 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1119413
Why doesn't the murder of the poor make the news?

In the US, we have a saying about news "if it bleeds, it leads" so gang vs. gang violence and gang vs. innocent bystander stories are favorites.

It may make the news if it's gruesome, cartel vs cartel or the such, any other get buried in a small paragraph in the papers and never mentioned in the TV. Unless it serves to advance the political agenda/narrative then oh boy does it lead!


Quote from: Spinachcat;1119413
"Batshit crazy gringo shit" is our #1 educational export!

What cultural divide in Mexico do you see the SJWs in your universities trying to create or exacerbate?

Racial and sexual, just like there, they introduced the African-Mexican equivalent, also the feminicide and lewd looks (kinda the evil eye) are enshrined in law.

The universal pension past governments instituted is now going to be at 65 for indigenous people and 68 for mestizos (you know mixed, muts, dirty race traitors or something)

And when you say this is racist they deny it even if mestizo is a racial term.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Omega on January 18, 2020, 01:46:56 AM
Leave it to the SJW and Femnazi cultists to step in and 'fix' things by fermenting hatred, distrust, and of course more segregation. They are allready making headway into Japan and you'll be seeing more wokeness in anime soon as they apply leverage.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on January 18, 2020, 11:56:58 AM
Quote from: Omega;1119420
Leave it to the SJW and Femnazi cultists to step in and 'fix' things by fermenting hatred, distrust, and of course more segregation. They are allready making headway into Japan and you'll be seeing more wokeness in anime soon as they apply leverage.

Indeed, I fear the virus will find repositories to hide even if the "west" manages to defeat it and will make a comeback a few decades after.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on January 18, 2020, 02:49:39 PM
Bravo our National Guard and Armed Forces protecting our borders! https://twitter.com/search?q=%22Guardia%20Nacional%22&src=trend_click
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on March 22, 2020, 03:26:47 AM
Geeky, I just saw a video about some alleged "feminists" kicking a 94 year old man with cancer off a train in Mexico city.
Did this get any traction in Mexico?
https://pluralist.com/mexico-feminist-video/
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on March 30, 2020, 06:15:17 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1124746
Geeky, I just saw a video about some alleged "feminists" kicking a 94 year old man with cancer off a train in Mexico city.
Did this get any traction in Mexico?
https://pluralist.com/mexico-feminist-video/

Saw it, not really, our MSM is fucked beyond repair, not a single one that dares talk against the feminazis.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on March 30, 2020, 10:04:12 PM
Fuck me, we're turning stupider by the minute! [ATTACH=CONFIG]4235[/ATTACH] Two "persons" Ingested chlorine and Pinol to prevent coronachan
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on March 31, 2020, 04:27:31 AM
Geeky...why did Mexico's president meet with El Chapo's mom?

Also, if El Chapo ran for President...would he win?

Before you think I'm insane for asking that question, there is a weird vibe in many El Chapo news stories reported in the USA. He's always described as a menace, but often with an undertone of admiration, almost a folk hero status. Is that an Idiot American thing or is El Chapo admired in Mexico?

Don't feel bad about people doing chlorine shots. Arizona had a couple chug fish pond cleaner because they can't read labels. Hubby is dead and the widow blames Trump because he talked about a malaria medication that has nothing to do with fish pond cleaner.

Oh, people in India are drinking cow pee and bathing in cow shit to avoid Flu Manchu. So the stupidity virus isn't just blasting North America. It's global.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on March 31, 2020, 06:24:09 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1125300
Geeky...why did Mexico's president meet with El Chapo's mom?


He says that he shakes anybody's hand. If you ask me he (and past governments) is in the cartels pocket (different cartels than past governments).

Quote from: Spinachcat;1125300
Also, if El Chapo ran for President...would he win?


I'd like to think not, but honestly there's too much stupid all around me to be positive about that.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1125300
Before you think I'm insane for asking that question, there is a weird vibe in many El Chapo news stories reported in the USA. He's always described as a menace, but often with an undertone of admiration, almost a folk hero status. Is that an Idiot American thing or is El Chapo admired in Mexico?


Yes, there's those who admire and want to emulate him. Those who admire him as you admire gangsters in your country (Like one admires a dangerous animal). Those who despise him and the politics that allowed him and others like him to exist. You could say that to a number of the population he IS a sort of folk hero, I honestly don't know how big is that group hence my answer to him winning a presidential race.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1125300
Don't feel bad about people doing chlorine shots. Arizona had a couple chug fish pond cleaner because they can't read labels. Hubby is dead and the widow blames Trump because he talked about a malaria medication that has nothing to do with fish pond cleaner.


I read about that, isn't it funny that she didn't die and is a democrat? It's almost as if she found the perfect way to commit murder.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1125300
Oh, people in India are drinking cow pee and bathing in cow shit to avoid Flu Manchu. So the stupidity virus isn't just blasting North America. It's global.


Yeah, and in Africa probably eating albinos, but México didn't used to have that kind of stupid. Or so I thought and the Internet just blew away my ignorance?
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Shasarak on March 31, 2020, 07:21:15 PM
Some economic podcasts that I listen too have been warning that Mexico (and South Africa) could be in for a real hard time if the China Wuhan virus gets going.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 01, 2020, 01:55:24 AM
Quote from: Shasarak;1125349
Some economic podcasts that I listen too have been warning that Mexico (and South Africa) could be in for a real hard time if the China Wuhan virus gets going.

If the Kung Flu is really as bad as they tell us, and if things get out of control and we have to stop our economy, expect to see some very crazy shit because our economy can't stand that.

Furthermore, if a world wide recession or worst depression hits, we're fucked.

It's a very old saying: When USA catches the Flu México gets Pneumonia. And it's still true.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on April 22, 2020, 04:40:14 AM
Has Mexico's media gone into maximum fear-mongering mode?

Has the government gone into full authoritarian mode?

And what's up with the beach tourism? Blows my mind that Mexico's had less than 1000 flu deaths and Cancun got closed for 16 deaths!!! Holy fuck.

https://www.theyucatantimes.com/2020/04/cancun-turns-50-in-total-oblivion/
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Abraxus on April 22, 2020, 08:14:21 AM
Heaven forbid we try and stop the spread of a very contagious virus or anything much more important. Yes I know it sucks for the economy until it gets better with C-18 it's the new reality. I can understand worrying about food and essential services. Poor you can't go to the beach here is the entire orchestra of the world smallest instruments that I hired to play for you.

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/493791-5-year-old-daughter-of-first-responders-dies-of-covid-19

and:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4306[/ATTACH]

In the end the Coronaidiots are just going to be idiots.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: SHARK on April 22, 2020, 12:48:07 PM
Greetings!

Yeah, there seems to be more and more "Coronaidiots". It is boggling how these morons believe that the virus is really a hoax, or just "the sniffles". Over 42,000 American citizens have died now from the virus--in the span of about 6 weeks--not a year, but 6 weeks. Young, old, and lots of people in between. It isn't just killing "Fatties and Diabetics".

Any let up on the lockdowns should be done slowly and cautiously, with the approval and supervision of the fucking medical authorities, not goddamn business executives. The fucking economy doesn't mean a damned thing if you are in bed with a air tube in your mouth, on the edge of death. The virus must be taken care of, step by step, and if that means we stay in lockdown and wait for awhile more, whatever it takes. You fucking wait. Fuck the economy. People's lives are at stake, and we need to make sure that we have adequate detection and testing kits and so on so that we can get control of the virus, who has it, and who doesn't. Fucking bureaucrats are just sucking cock and looking to keep their jobs and careers, so they say whatever the fuck they are told. States and hospitals don't have enough masks, ventilators, or testing equipment. Listen to the fucking doctors, the nurses, the State governors screaming, no, they don't have enough and they need more.

Some fucking morons have blubbered, "Why are liquor stores and grocery stores open, while churches are closed? That's not right! Our rights are being violated by tyrannical governments!"

Fucking moron fucking slugs. Because there are only a few people in liquor stores and grocery stores at any given time--not packed into a church shoulder to shoulder. Fucking morons. Same reason why shopping malls are closed, schools are closed, movie theaters and restaurants. But these fucking morons believe no, no, it's really a conspiracy to trample our rights! Geesus, you know?

This country has so many drooling, stupid fucking morons. It's depressing.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: HappyDaze on April 22, 2020, 04:42:16 PM
Quote from: SHARK;1127529
Listen to the fucking doctors


Well, listen to some of them. I've spent the last few days trying to slow a "resume full (elective) surgery schedules" movement among surgeons. Some are stepping up operations cautiously with added screening and mandatory pre-op testing. Others don't want to open the door a crack so much as they just want to take the doors right off the hinges and let in the flood.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Shasarak on April 22, 2020, 05:19:07 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze;1127549
Well, listen to some of them. I've spent the last few days trying to slow a "resume full (elective) surgery schedules" movement among surgeons. Some are stepping up operations cautiously with added screening and mandatory pre-op testing. Others don't want to open the door a crack so much as they just want to take the doors right off the hinges and let in the flood.

Turns out that the majority of Doctors look after health issues unrelated to Chinese Wuhan virus infections.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on April 24, 2020, 05:02:12 AM
Quote from: SHARK;1127529
It is boggling how these morons believe that the virus is really a hoax, or just "the sniffles". Over 42,000 American citizens have died now from the virus--in the span of about 6 weeks--not a year, but 6 weeks. Young, old, and lots of people in between. It isn't just killing "Fatties and Diabetics".


It's absolutely the fucking sniffles.

UCLA, LA Public Health and now NY Public Health have all come to the same conclusion. Millions of people have the antibodies for CoronaChan, aka millions of people have been infected which means the real death rate is a bad flu year. Like 2018 when 70,000 Americans died...and there was zero concern. Or like 1958 or 1968 when over 100,000 Americans died and we didn't close the country or destroy the economy.

The flu is annual motherfucker, and nobody cares unless you die of pneumonia that year.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm

And like the flu, the KungFlu is killing the same people - aka, mostly the old and the sick. The only difference is this year, the media is running panic numbers on the screen. Just imagine if 2018 flu deaths had been scrolling on the screen every hour of every day? But the joke is even worse now because we are counting people who died "with" CoronaChan as having died "from" CoronaChan. That's insane.

Dude, they're counting HOSPICE patients in the death toll!! Of course hospice patients are dying! That's the ENTIRE point of a hospice. When you go to hospice, you stop ALL medical care except pain killers and wait to die. But in 2020, we're supposed to be PANICKED that people who are dying...actually die???

But here's the real fun. Lockdowns don't save lives.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/04/22/there-is-no-empirical-evidence-for-these-lockdowns/

The article is by Wilfred Reilly, a professor who debunks hoaxes with math.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on April 24, 2020, 05:33:43 AM
Quote from: sureshot;1127513
Poor you can't go to the beach here is the entire orchestra of the world smallest instruments that I hired to play for you.


Get the San Francisco orchestra who did Symphony & Metallica! I love that album.

And I'm most DEFINITELY going to the beach. My freedom doesn't end where your fear begins.

Plus its over 90 next week and my pasty ass is getting a tan.


Quote from: SHARK;1127529
The fucking economy doesn't mean a damned thing if you are in bed with a air tube in your mouth, on the edge of death.


You want mass death? Then fuck the economy. The death numbers from the Bat Soup Flu is NOTHING compared to what nightmare awaits if the economy collapses. A garden variety recession kills massive numbers from suicide, drug overdose and homelessness. No jobs = destroyed lives and destroyed families. And worse, those who fall during a recession rarely make it back to their previous situation, so the working class becomes at best, the working poor, damned to poverty for a decade or more, maybe for the rest of their lives.  

Also, the ventilators have failed. There's an 88% death rate if you get put on a ventilator, so anyone who reaches that point is already worm food. You're a gamer. You know what 88% means in actual play.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-22/almost-9-in-10-covid-19-patients-on-ventilators-died-in-study


Quote from: SHARK;1127529
People's lives are at stake, and we need to make sure that we have adequate detection and testing kits and so on so that we can get control of the virus, who has it, and who doesn't.


How 1984 of you.

There's no tracking of HIV/AIDS patients and there's no AIDS vaccine. We don't have HIV/AIDS under control, we don't know the carriers, and yet, life goes on.

And remember, the CDC says flu kills 36,000 Americans on an AVERAGE year. We have zero detection and zero tracking and those who die are infected by unknown carriers, and yet, life goes on.  

We don't even tell people to wash their hands more during flu season!!!


Quote from: SHARK;1127529
Some fucking morons have blubbered, "Why are liquor stores and grocery stores open, while churches are closed? That's not right! Our rights are being violated by tyrannical governments!"


Were you in the Chinese marines? Last time I checked the Constitution of the USA doesn't have any clause that says our rights vanish if people get the sniffles. Shark, you of all people should know how precious and fragile our rights are, and how once lost, those rights are not easy to regain.

Amazing how we can pack people into CostCo, but they can't sit 6 feet apart for a sermon from their pastor. And hell no we can't let them walk in parks, neighborhoods or on beaches where they might breathe fresh air, get crucial Vitamin D from sunlight and be farther apart then the clowns hoarding more toilet paper.

That's not public safety. That's petty tyrants showing their true colors.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Pat on April 24, 2020, 08:46:33 AM
I'll say one thing about the lockdown:

The limitations on the number of items that can be purchased and the shortages due to price controls means I have to go to the store more often than usual. The limited number of stores open and the restricted hours mean there are more people there than ever, and no off hours when the traffic is lighter. It's impossible to enter without a greeter coming close to direct or give instructions, or a counter hovering while updating the headcount. The porous barriers they've built to enter and exit the stores, and to the cash registers, mean there's no way to find a shorter line, use the exit when someone is blocking the entrance, and otherwise use the alternatives to avoid obstacles. While in the funnel, there's a constant stream of people passing, from employees rushing around like headless chickens, shoppers looking for something in an aisle repurposed for a line, or people cutting the line to leave or even simply cross the store from one side to the other. Everything's rushed, so people are taking shortcuts, so there's the regular whush of air displacement as people brush by, with no time or room for evasion.

Except for Black Friday, I've never been in such close contact with so many people while shopping. And it's every day. Social distancing and public health precautions seem to be euphemisms for extended intimate contact with huge numbers of strangers.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: SHARK on April 24, 2020, 11:07:33 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1127733
Get the San Francisco orchestra who did Symphony & Metallica! I love that album.

And I'm most DEFINITELY going to the beach. My freedom doesn't end where your fear begins.

Plus its over 90 next week and my pasty ass is getting a tan.




You want mass death? Then fuck the economy. The death numbers from the Bat Soup Flu is NOTHING compared to what nightmare awaits if the economy collapses. A garden variety recession kills massive numbers from suicide, drug overdose and homelessness. No jobs = destroyed lives and destroyed families. And worse, those who fall during a recession rarely make it back to their previous situation, so the working class becomes at best, the working poor, damned to poverty for a decade or more, maybe for the rest of their lives.  

Also, the ventilators have failed. There's an 88% death rate if you get put on a ventilator, so anyone who reaches that point is already worm food. You're a gamer. You know what 88% means in actual play.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-22/almost-9-in-10-covid-19-patients-on-ventilators-died-in-study




How 1984 of you.

There's no tracking of HIV/AIDS patients and there's no AIDS vaccine. We don't have HIV/AIDS under control, we don't know the carriers, and yet, life goes on.

And remember, the CDC says flu kills 36,000 Americans on an AVERAGE year. We have zero detection and zero tracking and those who die are infected by unknown carriers, and yet, life goes on.  

We don't even tell people to wash their hands more during flu season!!!




Were you in the Chinese marines? Last time I checked the Constitution of the USA doesn't have any clause that says our rights vanish if people get the sniffles. Shark, you of all people should know how precious and fragile our rights are, and how once lost, those rights are not easy to regain.

Amazing how we can pack people into CostCo, but they can't sit 6 feet apart for a sermon from their pastor. And hell no we can't let them walk in parks, neighborhoods or on beaches where they might breathe fresh air, get crucial Vitamin D from sunlight and be farther apart then the clowns hoarding more toilet paper.

That's not public safety. That's petty tyrants showing their true colors.

Greetings!

Indeed, I am always cautious when it comes to our Constituional rights. I also think we should proceed cautiously about dealing with any kinds of diseases. I tend to have some faith in my doctor. Doctors in my experience have tended to be intelligent, level-headed, rational people. My doctors have always had my best interests at heart.

Spinachcat, my friend, you really think the virus is a hoax? How is it a hoax? Over 48,000 people have died from it in America in the last 6 weeks. Why would it be a hoax? Who would be promoting a hoax? Our economy has taken a nose dive. Why would anyone want that, my friend?

Dr. Phil said we lose 45,000 people a year to the Flu, over 300,000 people to smoking and over 300,000 people per year to swimming pool accidents, but we don't shut the whole country down because of those things.

The next day, he had to publicly apologize for his commentary.

It makes me wonder, then, if we didn't shut the country down for those things, why are we shutting the country down now?

All of these people that have actually had the virus, and survived it, are they all in on the hoax, too? They have all said it is far worse than the flue or pneumonia, and they have barely survived, and it has been terrible. Very painful, very difficult for the weeks they have mostly been sick, struggling to deal with the virus.

Those people are all delusional, Spinachcat? I have a difficult time believing that they are all lying, you know. Many of them are just normal, ordinary people.

If ventilators do not help in keeping people alive, then why are all of these governors, officials, medical experts, as well as ordinary doctors and nurses all saying that we need them to save lives? What have they all been screaming for?

The Hoax thing seems odd to me, also my friend. South Korea, they didn't seem to think it was a hoax, and they shut everything down tightly. After what, two months of being locked down tight, they have resumed with society, business, and life. They locked everything down, instituted social distancing, masks, testing of everyone, and all that, to make sure that everyone was safe, and that infected people could get help and treatment that they need, while seeking to protect the rest of the population from the virus.

I suppose part of me doesn't understand why a dangerous virus must somehow be politicized. Just listen to the medical experts, lock the country down, get people tested, and then return to normal. Just follow good procedures to resist and contain a virus, and protect people, and get back to business. I don't think embracing or encouraging hysteria is good for society or people. We need to be cautious, rational, and reasonable.

I should also note that the governor of my state where I live--Idaho--Governor Brad Little, is a Rancher, gun owner, and a conservative Christian. He is definitely pro-gun, pro-constitution, and has always seemed to be a reasonable man. I think he has been good so far. He has been cautious about doing a state lock down, and then agreed with medical experts to order the state locked down so that the virus could be contained and dealt with, our hospitals could be prepared, and the public could be kept reasonably safe. I have supported our Governor's position on dealing with the virus. Governor Little has stood for our rights--and continues to stand for our rights. He has also been concerned about the public safety, and wants to work closely with the medical experts, the scientists, the state national guard and law enforcement, as well as business leaders, in making sure the state and the people are safe. So far, the death count from the virus has been low in our state. I think that our governor has been doing a good job, Spinachcat. Has Governor Brad Little been sucked into a hoax?

I'm just a bit confused and boggled here, Spinachcat. Why would intelligent, reasonable, God-fearing, patriotic Americans want to embrace a hoax?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: jhkim on April 24, 2020, 01:52:30 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1127730
But here's the real fun. Lockdowns don't save lives.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/04/22/there-is-no-empirical-evidence-for-these-lockdowns/

The article is by Wilfred Reilly, a professor who debunks hoaxes with math.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1127733
There's no tracking of HIV/AIDS patients and there's no AIDS vaccine. We don't have HIV/AIDS under control, we don't know the carriers, and yet, life goes on.

And remember, the CDC says flu kills 36,000 Americans on an AVERAGE year. We have zero detection and zero tracking and those who die are infected by unknown carriers, and yet, life goes on.  

We don't even tell people to wash their hands more during flu season!!!

Covid-19 has killed over 50,000 Americans in less than 6 weeks, despite massive measures taken to reduce its impact. Over a year, there is good reason to think that it will kill hundreds of thousands or possibly more. Conservative and liberal sources are both saying this. If we hadn't had any quarantine procedures or other measures, the numbers would be even higher.

I've read Reilly's article, and its primary point is utterly misleading -- it's encouraging a form of "Fire departments cause fires". Statistically, we can look at which neighborhoods a fire department goes to, and we can see that there is a greater chance that there is a fire in neighborhoods where the fire department goes. But of course that's nonsense. Fire departments are called in because of fires. They don't cause them or make them more likely. Reilly does the same thing with lockdowns -- correlating whether a state locks down with the number of covid-19 deaths in the state. But obviously, states with more deaths are more likely to enact a lockdown to deal with that.


Quote from: SHARK;1127764
Spinachcat, my friend, you really think the virus is a hoax? How is it a hoax? Over 48,000 people have died from it in America in the last 6 weeks. Why would it be a hoax? Who would be promoting a hoax? Our economy has taken a nose dive. Why would anyone want that, my friend?

Dr. Phil said we lose 45,000 people a year to the Flu, over 300,000 people to smoking and over 300,000 people per year to swimming pool accidents, but we don't shut the whole country down because of those things.

The next day, he had to publicly apologize for his commentary.

It makes me wonder, then, if we didn't shut the country down for those things, why are we shutting the country down now?

To be clear, he was roughly on-target about the flu and smoking - but he was wildly off about swimming pool accidents (which are less than 4000 per year). And he's comparing numbers per year with covid-19 numbers over just a few weeks. cf.

https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2020/on-fox-news-dr-phil-said-360000-americans-die-in-swimming-pools-every-year-hes-wrong-by-magnitudes/

I think it's worthwhile to look at actual numbers, but one should be accurate and compare apples to apples when doing so. Comparing yearly numbers to numbers over just a few weeks is thoroughly wrong.


Quote from: SHARK;1127764
All of these people that have actually had the virus, and survived it, are they all in on the hoax, too? They have all said it is far worse than the flue or pneumonia, and they have barely survived, and it has been terrible. Very painful, very difficult for the weeks they have mostly been sick, struggling to deal with the virus.

Those people are all delusional, Spinachcat? I have a difficult time believing that they are all lying, you know. Many of them are just normal, ordinary people.

If ventilators do not help in keeping people alive, then why are all of these governors, officials, medical experts, as well as ordinary doctors and nurses all saying that we need them to save lives? What have they all been screaming for?

The Hoax thing seems odd to me, also my friend. South Korea, they didn't seem to think it was a hoax, and they shut everything down tightly. After what, two months of being locked down tight, they have resumed with society, business, and life.


To be clear -- Spinachcat is right that ventilators only save a fraction of the people put on them. (He quotes 12% survival - I've seen 20%, but I think there are still many unknowns.) However, even only saving 12% of patients is still saving many thousands of lives. I think saving thousands of lives is absolutely a good thing, and worth pursuing, even if it isn't a cure that saves the majority of people.

Yes, South Korea is coming off of lockdown now - but they're implementing a bunch of steps to balance between active economy and still containing the disease. I think they have been dealing with the disease quite well, and I saw some of it firsthand since I was there in January and February.

https://qz.com/1844946/south-korea-keeps-social-distancing-paost-covid-19-containment/

Here's the trick. Below is a graph of the active cases in South Korea by date:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4323[/ATTACH]

They got over the hump, so they've reset the exponential growth curve. By opening up with more safeguards in place, the number will probably start growing again, but slower than before, and at levels which the system can handle. Maybe they'll have to have another lockdown later in the year to keep things contained, but they'll have time to plan it better.

Below is a graph of the active cases in the U.S. by date:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4324[/ATTACH]

Ideally, the isolation should let us get over the hump and reduce the number of active cases. But it's not clear that we'll be able to do that with our policies. I'm not sure what the best alternative is if we fail to contain enough to get over the hump. I've seen suggestions that we have a limited opening with quarantines of vulnerable people. I think we should at least buy some more time to plan and test that, though.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Pat on April 24, 2020, 02:53:07 PM
Quote from: SHARK;1127764
I suppose part of me doesn't understand why a dangerous virus must somehow be politicized. Just listen to the medical experts....
That's a big part of the problem. Why is listening to what medical experts say about shutting down businesses considered "science"? They're medical experts. They may have good information about the nature of viruses, the spread of disease, and its treatment; but the rest of this is economics. Which is completely outside their area of expertise; they have no more expertise on the topic than any random person on the street. Less, in many cases. Dr. Fauci, for instance, has spent his entire life working within a bureaucracy. He knows less about how businesses operate than the average employee of a corporation. Yet there is no equivalent expert in economics talking about the consequences; instead, what Fauci and his counterparts say we need to do is treated as gospel, and anyone who questions that orthodoxy is treated as a heretic who is denying science.

This is a medical emergency, but the response is creating an economic crisis. A crisis that exceeds any since the Great Depression, and there are some indications it's going to be the worst in history. Is it worth the trade off?

That's the problem. We're not having that conversation. We're not looking at the effects of the shutdowns. It's not just how many people die while testing positive for COVID-19. It's also about the record unemployment numbers, and the number of people who can't make rent, and the number of small businesses who didn't get their applications in time before the money tree was chopped down, and the people and businesses whose credit is being ruined.

But it's much deeper than that, because you can't just stop and then "restart" an economy after a shutdown; there's permanent damage. Businesses fail, people become permanently unable to find jobs, new workers fail to launch. Supply chains become disrupted, and can't restore capacity. There's a good chance automation will displace entire industries, increasing the class of the perpetually unemployed.

And even if the economy could just be restarted, the loss is still measured not in convenience; people aren't just taking a harmless "break". The economy drives innovation, and gives people the resources they need for health, education, and resources. Even a delay results in opportunities missed, innovations (including medical) delayed, lowered lifetime outcomes that are passed to the next generation, lives destroyed, and, yes, lives lost.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: SHARK on April 24, 2020, 03:35:31 PM
Quote from: Pat;1127792
That's a big part of the problem. Why is listening to what medical experts say about shutting down businesses considered "science"? They're medical experts. They may have good information about the nature of viruses, the spread of disease, and its treatment; but the rest of this is economics. Which is completely outside their area of expertise; they have no more expertise on the topic than any random person on the street. Less, in many cases. Dr. Fauci, for instance, has spent his entire life working within a bureaucracy. He knows less about how businesses operate than the average employee of a corporation. Yet there is no equivalent expert in economics talking about the consequences; instead, what Fauci and his counterparts say we need to do is treated as gospel, and anyone who questions that orthodoxy is treated as a heretic who is denying science.

This is a medical emergency, but the response is creating an economic crisis. A crisis that exceeds any since the Great Depression, and there are some indications it's going to be the worst in history. Is it worth the trade off?

That's the problem. We're not having that conversation. We're not looking at the effects of the shutdowns. It's not just how many people die while testing positive for COVID-19. It's also about the record unemployment numbers, and the number of people who can't make rent, and the number of small businesses who didn't get their applications in time before the money tree was chopped down, and the people and businesses whose credit is being ruined.

But it's much deeper than that, because you can't just stop and then "restart" an economy after a shutdown; there's permanent damage. Businesses fail, people become permanently unable to find jobs, new workers fail to launch. Supply chains become disrupted, and can't restore capacity. There's a good chance automation will displace entire industries, increasing the class of the perpetually unemployed.

And even if the economy could just be restarted, the loss is still measured not in convenience; people aren't just taking a harmless "break". The economy drives innovation, and gives people the resources they need for health, education, and resources. Even a delay results in opportunities missed, innovations (including medical) delayed, lowered lifetime outcomes that are passed to the next generation, lives destroyed, and, yes, lives lost.

Greetings!

Hello Pat! Indeed, I am also very concerned about the economy. What was it now, just about a month ago, I told a friend of mine when we were talking about our state's lockdown ordered by the Governor, that I was concerned about people dying and so on, but I also wondered what effects this disaster was going to have on the economy, and that the effects would likely go on for many months, even potentially *years*. I wondered then if the "cure" was somehow going to be worse in consequences than the virus itself. (I'm not saying people dying is a good thing, either. Just weighing how many numbers of people die directly from the virus, to all the people that die, live in poverty, chaos and ruin for months or years to come).

I read an article in the news this morning that said that Australia and New Zealand are dealing with the virus challenge very well--much better than Europe or the United States. The article basically said that the political leaders there rallied their people to unify, and got politicians out of the way. They listened to medical experts and scientists, built up their hospitals and medical response infrastructure, locked their countries down, and have aggressively tested and quarantined people. Thus, after six to eight weeks of unified, aggressive policies that have listened to medical experts and scientists, their populations are safe, their death rates and infection rates have receded hugely, and they have far fewer problems than we do. They are looking forward to reopening their countries and their economies in a smooth manner.

*Shrugs* I hope that is what we can do here. I'm having a hard time seeing the evil, nefarious motive. The doctors and nurses, they don't want to help people, and the state officials and leaders, they somehow want kids in schools to get sick and die, workers at jobs to die, and businesses to go bankrupt, and our economy in ruin, instead of people working and being prosperous, healthy and safe? The hospitals not having enough beds, ventilators, testing kits--all of that is just a big fucking joke? Don't we want our hospitals to have enough beds, ventilators, testing kits, protective gear, so we can make sure the public is safe, and minimize the number of people dying and getting the virus to begin with?

Again, South Korea, Australia, and New Zealand all seem to have unified, their people shut the fuck up, did what they were told, embraced the lockdown, social distancing, other mitigation efforts--all while listening to the medical experts and scientists, and following a unified policy. Their infection and death rates have been much smaller than ours has been, and they are opening their countries and their economies up right now--or are soon to do so, again in a cautious, unified, and rational manner. They are somehow all corrupt? They have not been acting in a genuine, faithful manner to keep their people safe? They also do not seem to have this deep suspicion of political leadership, nor do they have this antagonism towards medical experts and scientists that have been involved in organizing policies addressing the virus and how their society should deal with the crisis.

I don't know. Here where I'm at, my state Governor is a good guy, strongly conservative, pro-guns, pro-constitution, and a conservative Christian. He has been listening to the medical experts and scientists, as well as business leaders, teachers, law enforcement, and so on, to create unity and a strong, cautious response to the crisis. I think he is doing the best job that he can for our state, and also wants us to return to normal, open up our economy as soon as we can do so safely. I'm having a hard time finding fault with him and our state policies of lockdown and other mitigation efforts. The local government seems genuine and sincere.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Pat on April 24, 2020, 04:40:51 PM
Quote from: SHARK;1127800
I wondered then if the "cure" was somehow going to be worse in consequences than the virus itself. (I'm not saying people dying is a good thing, either. Just weighing how many numbers of people die directly from the virus, to all the people that die, live in poverty, chaos and ruin for months or years to come).
This is Bastiat's seen and unseen. (http://bastiat.org/en/twisatwins.html) They count the number of people in hospital beds, and how many die. That's seen. The unemployment numbers? There wasn't a lot of talk about the dangers, initially, because they were unseen. Over time, they've become seen. But that's only the tip of the economic iceberg; to truly understand the effects, we have to trace down all the effects, and not just consider the immediate ones.

Yet this is frequently portrayed as a decision between saving lives by "listening to the scientists", and being a selfish asshole at best, with an implication that you're a murdering monster on the side. But that's the monstrous point of view, the blind one, the anti-science position. They're reacting superficially, ignoring the long term effects, and dismissing anyone who points out what they're doing by claiming or implying they're evil. The truth is this isn't a choice between saving lives, or being an insensitive dick. It's a choice between some people dying in hospital beds, and other people dying from suicide, starvation, inability to afford healthcare, or because the innovations or resources needed to preserve their lives haven't been developed yet because the engine of the economy dropped out when it was forced into a sudden stop; along with a cavalcade of other effects along the spectrum of ruined to diminished lives.

It's just the second category is harder to see. But that's no excuse; if we're going to act morally, we need to consider not just what's right in front of us and easy to quantify, but the entire umbra of secondary and tertiary effects.

Quote from: SHARK;1127800
I read an article in the news this morning that said that Australia and New Zealand are dealing with the virus challenge very well--much better than Europe or the United States. The article basically said that the political leaders there rallied their people to unify, and got politicians out of the way. They listened to medical experts and scientists, built up their hospitals and medical response infrastructure, locked their countries down, and have aggressively tested and quarantined people. Thus, after six to eight weeks of unified, aggressive policies that have listened to medical experts and scientists, their populations are safe, their death rates and infection rates have receded hugely, and they have far fewer problems than we do. They are looking forward to reopening their countries and their economies in a smooth manner.
Read about Taiwan (https://mises.org/wire/why-taiwan-hasnt-shut-down-its-economy) (or listen (https://mises.org/library/why-taiwan-hasnt-shut-down-its-economy)), they are adjacent to China so they were on the front lines, and had an exemplary response that was largely free of big-government totalitarianism. Their success should have been a model for the world, but was mostly ignored because everyone's afraid of offending China, and statists default to statist solutions.

Sweden is also worth watching. They ignored all the economic heart-attacks induced in the rest of Europe, and so far their outcomes seem no worse. There's a growing body of evidence that the lockdowns do nothing but increase misery.

Quote from: SHARK;1127800
*Shrugs* I hope that is what we can do here. I'm having a hard time seeing the evil, nefarious motive.
Never ascribe to malice what can easily be explained by an unwillingness to think or see.

This is a case of people failing to look at the consequences, people who can't look beyond their expectations, and people talking about things they know nothing about.

Don't get me wrong, these are evil people. But this is real evil, not cartoonish evil. The real monsters of the world are never mustache twirling villains who self-identify as evil in order to promote wicknedness. They're all well-meaning. It's just they allow their lack of foresight and staggering hubris to lead them to believe they have the solution, and are willing to shut down anyone who disagrees and in order to seize power and implement their solution, leading to atrocities.

Quote from: SHARK;1127800
The doctors and nurses, they don't want to help people, and the state officials and leaders, they somehow want kids in schools to get sick and die, workers at jobs to die, and businesses to go bankrupt, and our economy in ruin, instead of people working and being prosperous, healthy and safe? The hospitals not having enough beds, ventilators, testing kits--all of that is just a big fucking joke? Don't we want our hospitals to have enough beds, ventilators, testing kits, protective gear, so we can make sure the public is safe, and minimize the number of people dying and getting the virus to begin with?
Except look what happened. Despite the existence of perfectly acceptable testing kits from the WHO and the South Korea, the CDC decided to make their own in-house testing kit, and the FDA forbade any private labs from creating alternatives, even going to far as giving the hand to a lab that tried to submit their own alternative. The CDC took forever to make the kit, and then they sent it out and the states discovered it didn't work. And even after they fixed that, they were unable to supply sufficient reagents.

It's a debacle. Because there wasn't a large volume of tests when the epidemic was in its infancy in the US, containment failed. We couldn't track the spread, isolate those infected, and track down all their contacts and determine if they were infected as well. Literally every death since then can be blamed on those two agencies. If they just bought existing tests (even as a stop gap), or farmed it out to the private sector labs who have all the expertise in creating these tests, it would never have happened. Heads should roll (probably literally), and the agencies should be dismantled or entirely reorganized. But that'll never happen, because this is the government. They'll get more funding, and be given an even more important role.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: ffilz on April 24, 2020, 04:59:07 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1127730
It's absolutely the fucking sniffles.


Hmm, https://katu.com/news/coronavirus/new-covid-19-side-effect-in-people-under-50

That doesn't sound like the sniffles to me...
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: jhkim on April 24, 2020, 07:52:09 PM
Quote from: Pat;1127792
That's a big part of the problem. Why is listening to what medical experts say about shutting down businesses considered "science"? They're medical experts. They may have good information about the nature of viruses, the spread of disease, and its treatment; but the rest of this is economics. Which is completely outside their area of expertise; they have no more expertise on the topic than any random person on the street. Less, in many cases. Dr. Fauci, for instance, has spent his entire life working within a bureaucracy. He knows less about how businesses operate than the average employee of a corporation. Yet there is no equivalent expert in economics talking about the consequences; instead, what Fauci and his counterparts say we need to do is treated as gospel, and anyone who questions that orthodoxy is treated as a heretic who is denying science.

This is a medical emergency, but the response is creating an economic crisis. A crisis that exceeds any since the Great Depression, and there are some indications it's going to be the worst in history. Is it worth the trade off?

First of all, the economic impact isn't clear. If New York hadn't engaged in a shutdown, for example, there would be even more deaths there -- and the consequences of those extra deaths would also impact the economy. What we're talking about here is a comparison of, say, the approaches of South Korea and Taiwan. At this point, both of them seem relatively successful in dealing with the virus. However, that doesn't mean that simply copying of any one aspect of their approaches will work exactly the same for another country -- either for the economy or disease treatment. In particular, I think Taiwan's success is related to it's early action - which included partial shutdowns, and it still has significant impact. Here's a projection for Taiwan's economy compared to the rest of the world:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4326[/ATTACH]
Source: https://www.ft.com/content/b59c238c-d004-44a2-bd9f-c5b1e7a5bc8a

So they'll have a slightly lesser recession, according to economic analysts who are working on projecting these things.

Ultimately, it's a question of how we want to trade off economic boom for lives lost to disease -- which is a complex problem that has no easy answers by either medical or economic experts, particularly since it's rooted in a moral/ethical position about how quality of life balances with loss of life. In general, cconomic recessions make for hardships in terms of luxuries, but they don't necessarily result in more deaths. Actually, the death rate is somewhat *negatively* correlated with boom markets -- i.e. the death rate is higher in economic high times. People's lives are harder, but they hang on better. Here's an article on the correlation:

https://www.aeaweb.org/research/why-does-the-death-rate-increase

And here's the U.S. death rate for the last fifty years as an example:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4327[/ATTACH]
Source: https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/death-rate-crude-per-1-000-people-wb-data.html
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Daztur on April 25, 2020, 05:15:50 AM
Quote from: SHARK;1127764
The Hoax thing seems odd to me, also my friend. South Korea, they didn't seem to think it was a hoax, and they shut everything down tightly. After what, two months of being locked down tight, they have resumed with society, business, and life. They locked everything down, instituted social distancing, masks, testing of everyone, and all that, to make sure that everyone was safe, and that infected people could get help and treatment that they need, while seeking to protect the rest of the population from the virus.


I agree with your overall point, calling this a hoax is ridiculous, but you're getting some of your facts wrong about what's happened here in South Korea.

We were NEVER locked down tight, not for one day and certainly not for two months.

Schools shut down on February 24th and some companies closed for a time or implemented work from home. The government issued voluntary social distancing recommendations and a lot of people followed them and mask wearing became pretty much universal quite quickly (lots of masks in stock because a lot of people wear them for pollution). Despite this a lot of places stayed open for the duration. A lot of sit down restaurants closed for a time but not all did and a lot of them filled back up fairly quickly. A lot of night clubs stayed open but became ghost towns for a time and only were forcibly shut down after a case got traced to a hostess bar and that was well after they started filling up again. A lot of freaking THEME PARKS never closed, not even for a day. In my province the government strongly recommended that all churches close and about 60% of them complied, at least for a time. Meanwhile movie theater traffic declined by 85% but a lot of them stayed open with drastically reduced traffic.

Things started getting back to normal around the middle of MARCH and things have been pretty much back to normal except for school closures and a few other things since the cherry blossoms went nuts and people went out to see them in early April. The government is shouting and waving its arms a lot about maintaining social distancing until May 6th but all but the lightest social distancing has been DEAD for over a MONTH now.

Despite all of this why do we have so few cases?

Because we started tracking and mass testing people very early so were able to keep a lid on it without much in the way of forcible methods. Doing that is impossible if you have too many cases so countries whose leadership was huffing glue (ie the US and the bulk of Europe) will have to suffer through a lockdown until daily cases get low enough to switch over to a Korean system.

So the Korean system has worked even better than you think. I'm happy I'm living here and not back home in the states.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Pat on April 25, 2020, 08:54:41 AM
Quote from: jhkim;1127816
First of all, the economic impact isn't clear. If New York hadn't engaged in a shutdown, for example, there would be even more deaths there -- and the consequences of those extra deaths would also impact the economy. What we're talking about here is a comparison of, say, the approaches of South Korea and Taiwan. At this point, both of them seem relatively successful in dealing with the virus. However, that doesn't mean that simply copying of any one aspect of their approaches will work exactly the same for another country -- either for the economy or disease treatment. In particular, I think Taiwan's success is related to it's early action - which included partial shutdowns, and it still has significant impact. Here's a projection for Taiwan's economy compared to the rest of the world:

As Daztur noted, you're drawing a false distinction. The key to success in both South Korea and Taiwan was stopping the disease when there were relatively few cases, which requires strong early action. That may involve closing borders or restricting/controlling entry, and some targeted shutdowns where clusters appear, but it primarily involves testing any suspected cases, quarantining them, and then tracing their contacts and doing the same. This is called the containment phase. It requires constant vigilance and intrusive measures, but the intrusive measures are targeted; the majority of the population can continue more or less as normal.

Nation-wide shutdowns, masks, and social distancing are not required if containment is successful. Those measures are intended to slow and mitigate the spread of the disease, once numerous cases pop up that can't be traced back to previous cases or clusters. This is called community transmission, and indicates the disease has a foothold in the wider population, with webs of people infecting other people, all of whom are invisible to public health. Once this happens, spread throughout the population until the disease reaches its natural limits is basically inevitable, and all you can do is delay the process in an attempt to not to overwhelm the healthcare systems and stall for a vaccine.

There's no reason the measures to slow and mitigate a pandemic can't be voluntary. Messaging is vital -- and Trump's stupid statements, the WHO covering for China, and the CDC's lying to people about the effectiveness of masks in order to preserve them for healthcare workers, hasn't helped. A worldwide pandemic is novel, in itself, and the whole process has been a learning curve not just for the public, but for the experts as well. To ascend that curve we needed clear and consistent information from trusted sources, not waffling and lies. Taiwan and Australia, to give two examples, have done well in this regard. The messaging should touch on social distancing, protective measures like masks, and then leave it up to the public. There may be some government intervention at the local level, but it would address specific problems, instead of using blanket interventions. This leaves it up to individuals and businesses, who will have every incentive in the world to innovate, because they want to appear safe.

There's no indication the blanket lockdowns have done anything except tank economies. Which is really strange, when you think about it. Why are they saying global deployment of a vaccine is more than a year out? Labs have already concocted a half a dozen, maybe more. It's because they're testing the vaccines in controlled trials. They want to ensure the vaccines are safe and effective, before they start inoculating a significant portion of the public. They're not willing to risk a few deaths or side effects, even in the midst of a pandemic claiming lives to the left and to the right.

Yet the lockdowns, which have even more dire effects, and whose promised salutary effects are completely untested and theoretical, were implemented at a global scale scale, with no limited trials. It just goes to show how the reliance on "science" is completely one-sided. The lives lost in hospitals are seen; the lives lost or diminished due to the economic effects are still largely unseen.

Quote from: jhkim;1127816
Ultimately, it's a question of how we want to trade off economic boom for lives lost to disease -- which is a complex problem that has no easy answers by either medical or economic experts, particularly since it's rooted in a moral/ethical position about how quality of life balances with loss of life.

Twice in one sentence you compared loss of life with the loss of nice things (quality of life/economic boom).

The entire point of my last post was that I completely reject that way of framing the dilemma. It's not a trade off between lives lost and a few perks. It's a trade off between some lives lost, and other lives lost, as well as lives that are substantially diminished. You're implicitly presenting the debate as nice people valiantly fighting against the mean people who have so little care for others that they're willing to let a lot of people die because they're unwilling to give up a few luxuries. That's not just utterly false, it's flipping the dynamic and portraying the myopic, ignorant side who let their feelings override their deeper compassion as angels.

Interesting data on mortality rates in boom/bust times, but that just highlights the kind of trade offs we make every day. Nobody would say bust times are better than boom times. And I'm skeptical about specific projections, because economics is poor at pin-pointing specific times or the degree of an effect -- otherwise all economists would be rich. But the underlying theory is sound, even if it's hard to quantify.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: oggsmash on April 25, 2020, 09:28:41 AM
I think everyone is missing the obvious.  In our society, Western, and especially in the USA, seams are showing in our society.  This pressure may burst the seams.  There is no best way to deal with it.  There is no good answer no matter what is done.  The only positive that can result is cutting off china and treating them like 1984 USSR.  That can have consequences too, huge ones.  Societies, empires, ways of life, have a life cycle.  Reading of history shows this.  No one can predict the future, but we can see patterns from the past.  There are patterns showing up now, that have been seen in the past.  I am not optimistic that with no virus the USA stays whole in 20 years.  Now, with the virus; it will be a change event, whether that is to re set the patterns of rot and decay, or to accelerate them, I do not know, and I dont think anyone does.  We will live in interesting times, that is all I can say.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: The Spaniard on April 26, 2020, 07:44:33 AM
Quote from: oggsmash;1127851
I think everyone is missing the obvious.  In our society, Western, and especially in the USA, seams are showing in our society.  This pressure may burst the seams.  There is no best way to deal with it.  There is no good answer no matter what is done.  The only positive that can result is cutting off china and treating them like 1984 USSR.  That can have consequences too, huge ones.  Societies, empires, ways of life, have a life cycle.  Reading of history shows this.  No one can predict the future, but we can see patterns from the past.  There are patterns showing up now, that have been seen in the past.  I am not optimistic that with no virus the USA stays whole in 20 years.  Now, with the virus; it will be a change event, whether that is to re set the patterns of rot and decay, or to accelerate them, I do not know, and I dont think anyone does.  We will live in interesting times, that is all I can say.

Not enough of us pay attention to history.  Certainly not our elected leaders.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: jhkim on April 26, 2020, 03:18:46 PM
Quote from: oggsmash;1127851
I think everyone is missing the obvious.  In our society, Western, and especially in the USA, seams are showing in our society.  This pressure may burst the seams.  There is no best way to deal with it.  There is no good answer no matter what is done.  The only positive that can result is cutting off china and treating them like 1984 USSR.  That can have consequences too, huge ones.  Societies, empires, ways of life, have a life cycle.  Reading of history shows this.  No one can predict the future, but we can see patterns from the past.  There are patterns showing up now, that have been seen in the past.  I am not optimistic that with no virus the USA stays whole in 20 years.
I'm baffled by this. The U.S. has less civil unrest in current times than in the 1960s, for example - and in retrospect, I don't think there was any chance of that leading to armed revolution. Currently, domestic terrorism is limited to isolated cases, and voter participation is high. In other countries where revolution or secession takes place, it seems like there was far more unrest. The issue is mostly hyper-partisan people getting upset by what they read on Facebook. However, those people aren't motivated enough to do more than click "Like" or "Angry" on the posts causing the outrage.

More and more, I'm convinced that people are made unhappy mostly by media (especially social media) that promotes outrage.


Quote from: Pat
There's no indication the blanket lockdowns have done anything except tank economies. Which is really strange, when you think about it. Why are they saying global deployment of a vaccine is more than a year out? Labs have already concocted a half a dozen, maybe more. It's because they're testing the vaccines in controlled trials. They want to ensure the vaccines are safe and effective, before they start inoculating a significant portion of the public. They're not willing to risk a few deaths or side effects, even in the midst of a pandemic claiming lives to the left and to the right.

Yet the lockdowns, which have even more dire effects, and whose promised salutary effects are completely untested and theoretical, were implemented at a global scale scale, with no limited trials. It just goes to show how the reliance on "science" is completely one-sided. The lives lost in hospitals are seen; the lives lost or diminished due to the economic effects are still largely unseen.
Pat, do you have a link to any estimate on the lives lost due to the economic effects? I gave a link earlier on what I'd read about the effects of economic downturn on mortality, but that's for the typical economic downturns. It's possible that this one will be different, but I'd like some estimate other than a feeling or a social media post.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Pat on April 26, 2020, 11:17:43 PM
Quote from: jhkim;1127945
Pat, do you have a link to any estimate on the lives lost due to the economic effects? I gave a link earlier on what I'd read about the effects of economic downturn on mortality, but that's for the typical economic downturns. It's possible that this one will be different, but I'd like some estimate other than a feeling or a social media post.
As I said, it's hard to quantify. But here's an article by an economics professor that emphasizes many of the same things I did, and in addition cites an article in The Lancet that suggests 260,000 additional cancer deaths (alone) can be attributed to the 2008 recession, and a UN study that says hundreds of thousands of children, if not more, will die due to the effects of the worldwide COVID-19 shutdowns.
https://mises.org/wire/ending-lockdowns-isnt-about-saving-money-its-about-saving-lives
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 01, 2020, 11:44:30 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1127498
Has Mexico's media gone into maximum fear-mongering mode?

Has the government gone into full authoritarian mode?

And what's up with the beach tourism? Blows my mind that Mexico's had less than 1000 flu deaths and Cancun got closed for 16 deaths!!! Holy fuck.

https://www.theyucatantimes.com/2020/04/cancun-turns-50-in-total-oblivion/


Media is full blown panic peddling

Governments gone authoritarian, with some differences in intensity from state to state.

The "Right-Wing opposition" demanded from the guy they fear wants to be a dictator to get authoritarian and to destroy the economy. He finally caved in and now there's at least 2 states where people are dying from hunger.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 01, 2020, 11:47:42 PM
Quote from: sureshot;1127513
Heaven forbid we try and stop the spread of a very contagious virus or anything much more important. Yes I know it sucks for the economy until it gets better with C-18 it's the new reality. I can understand worrying about food and essential services. Poor you can't go to the beach here is the entire orchestra of the world smallest instruments that I hired to play for you.

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/493791-5-year-old-daughter-of-first-responders-dies-of-covid-19

and:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4306[/ATTACH]

In the end the Coronaidiots are just going to be idiots.


And when you were already poor and the economy grinds to a halt leaving you without a job?

Our poor don't even have electricity lots of times, not like the gringo version that are poor with smartphones and gaming consoles.

The fucking ONU is warning of the fucking hunger that's coming.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on May 10, 2020, 04:46:17 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1128580
Media is full blown panic peddling

Governments gone authoritarian, with some differences in intensity from state to state.

The "Right-Wing opposition" demanded from the guy they fear wants to be a dictator to get authoritarian and to destroy the economy. He finally caved in and now there's at least 2 states where people are dying from hunger.


GB, I'm very sorry to hear this. I hope you and your family are hanging in there.

The US press about Mexico is - of course - absolutely retarded and full of fear mongering nonsense. Notably absent from the articles I've seen is Mexico's economic suffering. I had hoped AMLO and Trump would find common ground to jointly revitalize both economies.

Hunger is the precursor to revolutions...and those rarely turn out as hoped.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 12, 2020, 06:00:14 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1129467
GB, I'm very sorry to hear this. I hope you and your family are hanging in there.

The US press about Mexico is - of course - absolutely retarded and full of fear mongering nonsense. Notably absent from the articles I've seen is Mexico's economic suffering. I had hoped AMLO and Trump would find common ground to jointly revitalize both economies.

Hunger is the precursor to revolutions...and those rarely turn out as hoped.

Thanks for your good wishes, we live in the Capital, so we might get hit to a lesser extent, depending on the severity of the depression.

Yeah, I don't think Trump and AMLO would work together ever (and will eat crow if proven wrong), because AMLO is a fucking "progressive" and blames everything on "Neo-Liberalism". Which means his idea of a way to revitalize the economy is of course, more taxes.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Abraxus on May 14, 2020, 08:40:43 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1128582
And when you were already poor and the economy grinds to a halt leaving you without a job?

At this point I really don't care about the poor. Or people too stupid to spend money as fast as they make it trying to support a lifestyle they really can't afford. In my neck of the woods in Quebec we have 39,931 confirmed cases with a decent number recovering of 10,470 and a death toll of 3,220. So far even with extra measures such as social distancing and fines the number of deaths is not going down. So maybe in your neck of the woods Covid-19 is a joke it's not in mine. The city I live in is a major epicenter of the virus. So maybe you have the luxury of acting like it's nothing or caring about others. I have to live with the virus day in and out. I have not kissed my fiance in a month. I see her I can't touch her in anyway because my future mother in law is in her 60s. So maybe you want to play Russian roulette with your family because you just need to have that mcdonalds burger. I don't. Until the amount of new cases stop increasing I have more important things to worry about then the poor and Coronaidiots.  

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1128582
The fucking ONU is warning of the fucking hunger that's coming.

And that is what you get when governments try to not offend China and worry about imposing strict measures at the start of an outbreak. Again maybe it is a joke where you live. Not for me. Justin Trudeau instead of spending two wekks to a month of having people self quarantine had imposed mandatory self-quarantining my province and the rest of Canada would not be in this mess. The WEst because they worried more about offending Coronoidiots and the sdame group not giving a flying fuck about anyone else is why we are in this mess. You all thought and still think this is a joke and now you want to guilt trip me with "think of all the children" nonsense no fuck that. when posters here were making fun of posters like me for taking it too seriously now that affects you and others  I'm supposed to feel sorry for you. Not going to happen,
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Pat on May 14, 2020, 08:30:15 PM
Quote from: sureshot;1129943
At this point I really don't care about the poor. Or people too stupid to spend money as fast as they make it trying to support a lifestyle they really can't afford. In my neck of the woods in Quebec we have 39,931 confirmed cases with a decent number recovering of 10,470 and a death toll of 3,220. So far even with extra measures such as social distancing and fines the number of deaths is not going down. So maybe in your neck of the woods Covid-19 is a joke it's not in mine. The city I live in is a major epicenter of the virus. So maybe you have the luxury of acting like it's nothing or caring about others. I have to live with the virus day in and out. I have not kissed my fiance in a month. I see her I can't touch her in anyway because my future mother in law is in her 60s. So maybe you want to play Russian roulette with your family because you just need to have that mcdonalds burger. I don't. Until the amount of new cases stop increasing I have more important things to worry about then the poor and Coronaidiots.

#FirstWorldProblems #LetThemEatCake
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 16, 2020, 03:19:20 AM
Quote from: sureshot;1129943
At this point I really don't care about the poor. Or people too stupid to spend money as fast as they make it trying to support a lifestyle they really can't afford. In my neck of the woods in Quebec we have 39,931 confirmed cases with a decent number recovering of 10,470 and a death toll of 3,220. So far even with extra measures such as social distancing and fines the number of deaths is not going down. So maybe in your neck of the woods Covid-19 is a joke it's not in mine. The city I live in is a major epicenter of the virus. So maybe you have the luxury of acting like it's nothing or caring about others. I have to live with the virus day in and out. I have not kissed my fiance in a month. I see her I can't touch her in anyway because my future mother in law is in her 60s. So maybe you want to play Russian roulette with your family because you just need to have that mcdonalds burger. I don't. Until the amount of new cases stop increasing I have more important things to worry about then the poor and Coronaidiots.  



And that is what you get when governments try to not offend China and worry about imposing strict measures at the start of an outbreak. Again maybe it is a joke where you live. Not for me. Justin Trudeau instead of spending two wekks to a month of having people self quarantine had imposed mandatory self-quarantining my province and the rest of Canada would not be in this mess. The WEst because they worried more about offending Coronoidiots and the sdame group not giving a flying fuck about anyone else is why we are in this mess. You all thought and still think this is a joke and now you want to guilt trip me with "think of all the children" nonsense no fuck that. when posters here were making fun of posters like me for taking it too seriously now that affects you and others  I'm supposed to feel sorry for you. Not going to happen,

#LetThemEatCake

You seem to think I'm talking about myself, I'm not.

I live in a city much bigger than yours I bet, plus you Canucks always brag about your commie health system...

When I say poor I don't mean your run of the mill first world "poor" that owns a fridge, air-conditioning and at least 1 smartphone, computer and gaming console.

But why do I bother explaining anything to someone that thinks him feeling safe should come before other's people ability to eat?
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on May 16, 2020, 03:43:37 AM
Quote from: sureshot;1129943
At this point I really don't care about the poor. Or people too stupid to spend money as fast as they make it trying to support a lifestyle they really can't afford.

Nobody cares about the poor until they riot.

As Lenin said, "Every society is three meals away from chaos."


Quote from: sureshot;1129943
In my neck of the woods in Quebec we have 39,931 confirmed cases with a decent number recovering of 10,470 and a death toll of 3,220.

What is the death toll from the flu in an average year in Quebec? What was its toll in 2018? In the USA, we had 80k die from the flu that year. It's amazing how the boring seasonal flu culls the old and the sick every year, but never makes the news!

Also, how is Canada counting CoronaChan deaths? In the USA, we're using total bullshit to spiral up the numbers. It's been confirmed by the government, doctors, funeral directors and families that we're counting anyone who died of ANYTHING, but had CoronaChan antibodies at the time of death as a CoronaChan death. Hell, New York counted people they suspected died of CoronaChan without any evidence.


Quote from: sureshot;1129943
So maybe you have the luxury of acting like it's nothing or caring about others.

It's not a luxury. It's called science. The WuFlu actual death rate has been proven to be extremely low. In the USA, the Stanford and USC studies confirmed by NYC's health department blew the media narrative apart weeks ago.


Quote from: sureshot;1129943
I have to live with the virus day in and out.

No, you don't. You're choosing to LARP a pandemic that doesn't exist. But that's cool if that's what you choose to do.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on May 16, 2020, 03:58:41 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1130140
When I say poor I don't mean your run of the mill first world "poor" that owns a fridge, air-conditioning and at least 1 smartphone, computer and gaming console.


I have to give Sureshot slack on that because unless you've been to a 3rd world nation, people don't know what abject poverty looks like. What we call "poor" in the USA and Canada is relative to the great wealth of our middle class. Our middle class really can't fathom how lucky they are because they're always looking at the rich and despairing. Thus the skewed perspective in our consumer culture.

I'm highly concerned about the economic impact of the shamdemic because no jobs means no food. No food means the thin veneer of civilization gets threatened...from both the haves and have nots. The USA likes to pretend an unstable Mexico isn't our problem, but its extremely our problem and has been for damn long time.

Mexico's best bet right now is to reopen the resorts and launch a TV campaign into America luring tourists with great deals. With so many US governors being morons, plenty of employed Americans would love a vacation with beaches, parties and booze.
 
BTW, Doug Stanhope does a great bit about First World poverty

Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Abraxus on May 16, 2020, 10:13:00 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1130140
I live in a city much bigger than yours I bet, plus you Canucks always brag about your commie health system...

I don't brag about our health system because I consider myself very fortunate to have it in place I have family in the USA and know how much you all have to pay for health care. So for that I have a huge healthy amount of respect for my neighbors to the South because of it. As many here in the North take it too much for granted.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1130140
But why do I bother explaining anything to someone that thinks him feeling safe should come before other's people ability to eat?

The same way you have a very dismissive and cavalier attitude towards those who worry and have to live through the virus. I am in epicenter of one of the hardest hit cities in Quebec. I don't have the luxury of being a Coronoidiot and simply claim it's the media or act like it's nothing because car accidents and the regular flu kill more people. Which BTW is stupidest, dumbest galaxy sized cop-out of an excuse to not be worried. Act like your invincible and immortal I may disagree and respect that. Not everybody feels that way or has the luxury to do so. The school year in our nexk of the woods is over. The opening date of day cares and the economies keeps getting pushed and pushed further and further away. At the very least not when cases in stead of going down keep going up. As soon as you do most people will follow quarantine procedures. Coronoaidiots are going to flock to the nearest bar or restaurant and just make it worse.

This kind of bullshit: https://www.businessinsider.com/colorado-restaurant-closed-after-defying-safer-at-home-order-2020-5 . Maybe a short term solution to the economy yet long term is going to make things worse.

I don't have the luxury of pretending to be immune because car accidents kill people or because the guy down the street business is hurting for being closed. It's not that I don't care I do I have to think of my family and fiance first before anyone and everyone else. Unlike some paragon of virtues who post here I am honest about it. As many of you would do the damn same thing except never admit it.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Abraxus on May 16, 2020, 10:24:48 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1130142

What is the death toll from the flu in an average year in Quebec? What was its toll in 2018? In the USA, we had 80k die from the flu that year. It's amazing how the boring seasonal flu culls the old and the sick every year, but never makes the news!

Don't give an absolute flying fuck how many people die of the flu or in car accidents every year. If it was just me on my own I could take a similar sociopathic dismissive attitude towards my fellow human. I can't I have a one year old niece living in a apartment downstairs and mother who is 66 years old. I can't pretend it does not exist or live a life of complete denial because a bunch of people dies of the flu last year.
Also, how is Canada counting CoronaChan deaths? In the USA, we're using total bullshit to spiral up the numbers. It's been confirmed by the government, doctors, funeral directors and families that we're counting anyone who died of ANYTHING, but had CoronaChan antibodies at the time of death as a CoronaChan death. Hell, New York counted people they suspected died of CoronaChan without any evidence.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1130142
It's not a luxury. It's called science. The WuFlu actual death rate has been proven to be extremely low. In the USA, the Stanford and USC studies confirmed by NYC's health department blew the media narrative apart weeks ago.

Not in my area because coronoidiots either were in denial about the flu, refused to take any protective measures which I can attest too because people in stores our at the park in front of my apartment kept breaking basic quaratine procedures like keeping a certain distance away from each other. I would be less worried if the numbers would drop in my area they are not so I can't risk being in denial about it.


Quote from: Spinachcat;1130142
No, you don't. You're choosing to LARP a pandemic that doesn't exist. But that's cool if that's what you choose to do.

Sure what ever and when you get sick because your not some special immune snowflake of a person you will come here and post "guys I'm sick how did it happen".

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/covid19-soldiers-nursing-homes-1.5571607 let me guess the five soldiers infected are just roleplaying their covid-19 but hey it's okay to those poor five solider after all more people die from the Flu than Covid am I right. .
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Abraxus on May 16, 2020, 10:45:33 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1130142
I have to give Sureshot slack on that because unless you've been to a 3rd world nation, people don't know what abject poverty looks like. What we call "poor" in the USA and Canada is relative to the great wealth of our middle class. Our middle class really can't fathom how lucky they are because they're always looking at the rich and despairing. Thus the skewed perspective in our consumer culture.

I know poverty when I see it because we came very close to the poverty line in the late 1980s the guy in charge of the company where my dad works took all the money out of his company and left to who knows where. With all the workers on the street. My dad found another job yet the guy in charge would make him work full-time two full weeks then another two part-time and so on. We were not poor yet not rich either and unlike many people who spend money as fast as they make it my parents would save as much as they could and only take vacations and buy stuff they wanted every so often. We had to financially tighten our belts or not be able to pay the bills. Luckily two years later my dad found not only a better job one he liked doing as well.

To me a truly poor person is someone living on the street begging for cash. Not the person with a full-time job living beyond their means and spending money as fast as they make it. Anyone with any amount of personal responsibility or a working brain cell should be having a certain amount of money in their account at all times in case of emergencies. Even someone with families should always have a back-up. Most people don't and prefer to buy Starbucks everyday or a pack of cigarettes.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1130142
I'm highly concerned about the economic impact of the shamdemic because no jobs means no food. No food means the thin veneer of civilization gets threatened...from both the haves and have nots. The USA likes to pretend an unstable Mexico isn't our problem, but its extremely our problem and has been for damn long time.

Hopefully civilization can survive yet even if businesses do reopen unless the business allows something say like Uber Eats or similar they are still screwed if enough people are sick at home. I do actually feel bad for people with a business yet they need to follow proper quarantine procedures. Not pack them in like sardines and hope  no one is infected or gets infected. Any that is the problem too many business owners rather than being safe will risk more people being sick. Our society being like it is will blame the poor schmuck for opening his business during a pandemic instead of themselves for not being careful and try to ruin the poor business person.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1130142
Mexico's best bet right now is to reopen the resorts and launch a TV campaign into America luring tourists with great deals. With so many US governors being morons, plenty of employed Americans would love a vacation with beaches, parties and booze.


That would be the dumbest thing for Mexico to do imo. The run the risk of more infection and spread of the disease.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Abraxus on May 16, 2020, 10:50:14 AM
Makes me wonder how many governments will handle the anti-vaxxers when and if a vaccine is found. Already they are living in aboslute "fear" that they will be forced to take any potential vaccine.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Pat on May 16, 2020, 11:50:21 AM
Quote from: sureshot;1130179
Don't give an absolute flying fuck how many people die of the flu or in car accidents every year. If it was just me on my own I could take a similar sociopathic dismissive attitude towards my fellow human.
That you don't recognize the irony in the juxtaposition of those two statements says a lot. You're coming across as entitled, selfish, and claiming victimhood based on extraordinary privilege. Despite your claims, you clearly do not understand poverty, nor do you understand the costs of the economic shutdown.

The people who die in hospital beds are easy to see, but the people who die because opportunities are lost, advances in technology are delayed, and the supply chain is crippled are just as real, just harder to count. To pick a relatively trivial example, there's a spike in suicides in every time there's an economic downturn. It's estimated an extra 10,000 people in the US killed themselves, due to the 2008 recession. Those dead bodies are real. And the WHO published a report on the coronavirus, pointing out that hundreds of thousands of children around the world would die due to starvation, because of the lockdown measures. More real bodies.

That doesn't count other deaths, like all the people losing their jobs. Most Americans get their healthcare from their jobs, so losing those jobs reduces their access, and lowers their lifetime health outcomes. Again, more dead bodies. But even without that factor, just losing a job, regardless of insurance status, lowers income. That means they have less money to spread among their various needs, including healthcare. Less money in itself also leads to reduced health outcomes, which means more dead bodies.

Some of the people who will be hardest hit are the recent college graduates, just entering the job market. Which has been destroyed, so many of them will fail to launch. That reduces an entire generation's lifetime income expectations, which again reduces their health outcomes and leads to more dead bodies. Similarly, the older cohorts who have been displaced from their jobs will have a hard time finding a new one, tanking their income expectations as they approach retirement. More lowered outcomes, more dead bodies.

Not only that, the shutdowns are causing a structural change in the economy. The government-induced economic crisis is accelerating the move toward automation, and remote work. That means large segments of the population will see not just their jobs vanish, but all related jobs vanish. Which means they'll become permanently displaced, unable to find jobs. This will be both based on educational class, and geography. The wastelands between the cities will become even poorer, and the divide between the highly educated and the rest will become much greater. More people will be struggling at minimum wage service jobs, go on disability, become dependents of their family, become homeless, or otherwise move to the struggling fringes. Retraining is more a theory than a practical solution, because it's never succeeded at a wide scale. Which again leads to lowered health outcomes, and more dead bodies.

Not only that, but you can't just turn off the economy and then restart it, with no damage. The very act causes damage, leading to more businesses going under, and more people thrown out of the economy. Not only that, but the nature of the crisis is favoring large businesses with a presence in multiple states, capital reserves or assets they can leverage for very low interest rate loans, and a strong online presence. Mom & pop stores are going under, not Amazons, which again hurts the middle class, leading to lowered outcomes, and more bodies.

And that doesn't cover how it hinders the economy's ability to respond quickly to problems, including the coronavirus. Or the loss in innovations. Or the educational impact.

The best way to save the most lives is to have a vibrant economy that lets the distributed web of entrepreneurs and customers come up creative solutions that are highly responsive to local and even individual needs and situations. The government's role should be a trusted source of information that provides guidance and advice, not arbitrary, inflexible, untested one-size-fits-all solutions imposed by dictate.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: SHARK on May 16, 2020, 02:03:52 PM
Greetings!

Well, I am glad that my state is opening up, and restarting our economy. We need to get back to work, and get busy. Reasonable precautions for the virus have been made, while there is still no vaccine. People can't stay trapped in their houses forever, playing tiddly winks. People need to get back to work, or more people will be ruined, and starving. Fuck that. America needs to stop giving into hysteria and get going. I think more and more Americans are saying fuck the virus. I think my state has been locked down since part of March, so say the best part of two months. We need to get working.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Abraxus on May 16, 2020, 05:43:01 PM
Quote from: SHARK;1130196
Greetings!

Well, I am glad that my state is opening up, and restarting our economy. We need to get back to work, and get busy. Reasonable precautions for the virus have been made, while there is still no vaccine. People can't stay trapped in their houses forever, playing tiddly winks. People need to get back to work, or more people will be ruined, and starving. Fuck that. America needs to stop giving into hysteria and get going. I think more and more Americans are saying fuck the virus. I think my state has been locked down since part of March, so say the best part of two months. We need to get working.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Open the business and the economy up as long as people are willing to keep a safe distance and maintain proper quarantine procedures. Problem is too many Coronaidiots are going to do the opposite and then everything needs to be closed down again. We will see if people are going to be smart after the opening up of business again or just plain stupid. We will see.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 18, 2020, 12:33:25 AM
Quote from: sureshot;1130176
I don't brag about our health system because I consider myself very fortunate to have it in place I have family in the USA and know how much you all have to pay for health care. So for that I have a huge healthy amount of respect for my neighbors to the South because of it. As many here in the North take it too much for granted.



The same way you have a very dismissive and cavalier attitude towards those who worry and have to live through the virus. I am in epicenter of one of the hardest hit cities in Quebec. I don't have the luxury of being a Coronoidiot and simply claim it's the media or act like it's nothing because car accidents and the regular flu kill more people. Which BTW is stupidest, dumbest galaxy sized cop-out of an excuse to not be worried. Act like your invincible and immortal I may disagree and respect that. Not everybody feels that way or has the luxury to do so. The school year in our nexk of the woods is over. The opening date of day cares and the economies keeps getting pushed and pushed further and further away. At the very least not when cases in stead of going down keep going up. As soon as you do most people will follow quarantine procedures. Coronoaidiots are going to flock to the nearest bar or restaurant and just make it worse.

This kind of bullshit: https://www.businessinsider.com/colorado-restaurant-closed-after-defying-safer-at-home-order-2020-5 . Maybe a short term solution to the economy yet long term is going to make things worse.

I don't have the luxury of pretending to be immune because car accidents kill people or because the guy down the street business is hurting for being closed. It's not that I don't care I do I have to think of my family and fiance first before anyone and everyone else. Unlike some paragon of virtues who post here I am honest about it. As many of you would do the damn same thing except never admit it.


10 million mexicans at risk of starvation vs what? and those are just the ones at immediate risk, not counting the extended impact this will have, you think the economy is just money, the economy is people, it's lives, if you're so afraid satay in your home, and don't impose starvation on others because you're peeing in your pants.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 18, 2020, 12:41:27 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1130145
I have to give Sureshot slack on that because unless you've been to a 3rd world nation, people don't know what abject poverty looks like. What we call "poor" in the USA and Canada is relative to the great wealth of our middle class. Our middle class really can't fathom how lucky they are because they're always looking at the rich and despairing. Thus the skewed perspective in our consumer culture.

I'm highly concerned about the economic impact of the shamdemic because no jobs means no food. No food means the thin veneer of civilization gets threatened...from both the haves and have nots. The USA likes to pretend an unstable Mexico isn't our problem, but its extremely our problem and has been for damn long time.

Mexico's best bet right now is to reopen the resorts and launch a TV campaign into America luring tourists with great deals. With so many US governors being morons, plenty of employed Americans would love a vacation with beaches, parties and booze.
 
BTW, Doug Stanhope does a great bit about First World poverty



Which won't happen because our beloved comrade leader thinks the wuflu was godsent so he can make the México of his dreams. Plus the "opposition" were the ones that forced him to fuck the economy, well them, Trump and other world leaders and organizations.

I say we're fucked and it will take about 20 years for a recovery. I likely won't see it, and millions will die of starvation and related diseases, millions more will storm the northern border, this will be a shitshow.

I only hope to be proven wrong.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on May 18, 2020, 05:45:21 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1130419
Which won't happen because our beloved comrade leader thinks the wuflu was godsent so he can make the México of his dreams.


And what would the Mexico of his dreams look like?

Is he running around passing legislation during CoronaChan?

Also, is he somehow not recognizing that STARVATION is the fastest track to civil war?


Quote from: GeekyBugle;1130419
Plus the "opposition" were the ones that forced him to fuck the economy, well them, Trump and other world leaders and organizations.


True. I'm not happy with Trump giving into the panic and allowing that clown Fauci to lead us into economic disaster.


Quote from: GeekyBugle;1130419
I say we're fucked and it will take about 20 years for a recovery. I likely won't see it, and millions will die of starvation and related diseases, millions more will storm the northern border, this will be a shitshow.


I've been reading up on the food crisis in Mexico. It's shocking, especially since Mexico is a major food exporter.

If Trump wins in November, the US border won't be an option for escape and could become a violent hotspot.

If Biden wins in November, the US border states will be overwhelmed with fleeing Mexicans and our social safety net will collapse.


Quote from: GeekyBugle;1130419
I only hope to be proven wrong.


Unless the USA and Mexico SWIFTLY unite to jointly revamp our economies, I fear you're right.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 18, 2020, 12:15:17 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1130437
And what would the Mexico of his dreams look like?

Is he running around passing legislation during CoronaChan?

Also, is he somehow not recognizing that STARVATION is the fastest track to civil war?

1.- Dunno, Venezuela? Cuba? Him and his party worship the Cuban Regime and Maduro.

2.- Oh yes, they are passing legislation, they got both chambers of the legislature, are now busy reshaping our laws and constitution, and the "opposition" are busy reeing about stupid shit. It's funny to see the "right" and the "center left" united in ther ADS, both became clones of your democrats.

3.- Not sure he thinks starvation is a real possibility, you see anything that goes against his pipe dreams is "A complot by the "conservatives" & "Neoliberals""

Quote from: Spinachcat;1130437
True. I'm not happy with Trump giving into the panic and allowing that clown Fauci to lead us into economic disaster.

There was too much public pressure, even from his own side and not enough information. The real test will be in how the different leaders choose to face the music and what they do to fix things.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1130437
I've been reading up on the food crisis in Mexico. It's shocking, especially since Mexico is a major food exporter.

If Trump wins in November, the US border won't be an option for escape and could become a violent hotspot.

If Biden wins in November, the US border states will be overwhelmed with fleeing Mexicans and our social safety net will collapse.

1.- Expensive as fuck gasoline, the distribution chain broken because of the wuflu, some companies even closed voluntarily (like the beer companies WTF?), closed borders and/or longer time to cross them with your exports. All of that leads to the farmers (who are mostly dirt poor) not having enough money to re-invest...

2.- 99% of the time a rat will flee, but a cornered rat? Faced with a sure and slow death by starvation of you and yours or a possible death by the migra... I bet many will choose the latter, and trust me, you'd need lots of people manning the frontier, it's not just Mexico that will be expelling it's own citizens...

3.- For both our good I hope loony Biden doesn't win, when the USA get's the sniffles we get pneumonia.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1130437
Unless the USA and Mexico SWIFTLY unite to jointly revamp our economies, I fear you're right.

I think there's exactly zero and no chance of that happening, my president is fucking stupid, too stupid to know he's stupid, thinks he's smart and is both too proud to ask/accept help/advice and a fucking commie.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Shasarak on May 18, 2020, 05:17:51 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1130437
True. I'm not happy with Trump giving into the panic and allowing that clown Fauci to lead us into economic disaster.

Could have been worse, if the Governor of New York was in charge then everyone in America would already have had the Wuhan virus.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 18, 2020, 05:25:37 PM
Quote from: Shasarak;1130495
Could have been worse, if the Governor of New York was in charge then everyone in America would already have had the Wuhan virus.

What makes you think you haven't? More and more scientific studies suggest the rate of infection was much higher than thought, at a top 80 times I believe is one extreme and at a low 14 times IF I remember correctly.

Search the official numbers and multiply them for the average of those 2 numbers and bingo. 1.53 million X 54 = 82.62 million. I think it will be found to be closer to 14 times still a YUGE number that makes the mortality rate go down...

Which is why the media isn't talking about this.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Pat on May 18, 2020, 06:04:54 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1130497
What makes you think you haven't? More and more scientific studies suggest the rate of infection was much higher than thought, at a top 80 times I believe is one extreme and at a low 14 times IF I remember correctly.

Search the official numbers and multiply them for the average of those 2 numbers and bingo. 1.53 million X 54 = 82.62 million. I think it will be found to be closer to 14 times still a YUGE number that makes the mortality rate go down...

Which is why the media isn't talking about this.
They're just starting to do prevalence studies, which is why the numbers have been back and forth about the number of people actually infected. They're just learning. Also the news has been confusing matters by treating the case fatality rate (CFR) as if it were the infection fatality rate (IFR). The IFR is the real death rate. CFR is just based on diagnosed cases, while IFR is based on everyone who catches the disease.

Here's the latest relevant study:
https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-05-14/antibody-study-shows-just-5-of-spaniards-have-contracted-the-coronavirus.html

Spain took blood samples from 70,000 people, constituting a representative subset of the country's whole population, and tested them to see how many people had been infected by COVID-19 at some point in time (i.e. had antibodies). Worked out to 5% nationally, though this varies by province. The infection rate near the epicenter tended to be over 10% (14.2% in Soria), while the lightly affected provinces were closer to 2% (down to 1.4% in the Canary Islands).

Spain got hammered by the disease, but that's remarkably low percentage. Compare that with New York City, another epicenter, where a similar study indicated that 21% of the people in the city had the disease at one point or another. In contrast, 60 to 70% is needed for herd immunity.

On the other hand, when extrapolated to Spain's entire population, that works out to an IFR of 1.16%. That's higher than expected. The CEBM estimates the world IFR to be between 0.1% and 0.26%.

90% of Spain's cases were undiagnosed and unreported.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Shasarak on May 18, 2020, 10:17:08 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1130497
What makes you think you haven't?

There are a couple of reasons.  Mostly because there were very few cases in NZ so the chances of coming in contact with someone infected was so small but also the hot summer weather, limited exposure to crowding and social distancing make it unlikely.

But who really knows with out a proper antibody test.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 18, 2020, 10:25:01 PM
Quote from: Shasarak;1130528
There are a couple of reasons.  Mostly because there were very few cases in NZ so the chances of coming in contact with someone infected was so small but also the hot summer weather, limited exposure to crowding and social distancing make it unlikely.

But who really knows with out a proper antibody test.


Sorry, thought you were a gringo. Is it true NZ just became a police state?
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 18, 2020, 10:26:40 PM
Quote from: Pat;1130507
They're just starting to do prevalence studies, which is why the numbers have been back and forth about the number of people actually infected. They're just learning. Also the news has been confusing matters by treating the case fatality rate (CFR) as if it were the infection fatality rate (IFR). The IFR is the real death rate. CFR is just based on diagnosed cases, while IFR is based on everyone who catches the disease.

Here's the latest relevant study:
https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-05-14/antibody-study-shows-just-5-of-spaniards-have-contracted-the-coronavirus.html

Spain took blood samples from 70,000 people, constituting a representative subset of the country's whole population, and tested them to see how many people had been infected by COVID-19 at some point in time (i.e. had antibodies). Worked out to 5% nationally, though this varies by province. The infection rate near the epicenter tended to be over 10% (14.2% in Soria), while the lightly affected provinces were closer to 2% (down to 1.4% in the Canary Islands).

Spain got hammered by the disease, but that's remarkably low percentage. Compare that with New York City, another epicenter, where a similar study indicated that 21% of the people in the city had the disease at one point or another. In contrast, 60 to 70% is needed for herd immunity.

On the other hand, when extrapolated to Spain's entire population, that works out to an IFR of 1.16%. That's higher than expected. The CEBM estimates the world IFR to be between 0.1% and 0.26%.

90% of Spain's cases were undiagnosed and unreported.

Thanks for the link, 0.26% is a lot of people but I think it's still much less than the deaths by famine if we don't start opening up the world's economy.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Pat on May 18, 2020, 11:18:11 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1130531
Thanks for the link, 0.26% is a lot of people but I think it's still much less than the deaths by famine if we don't start opening up the world's economy.
There's really no excuse for the economic shutdown at this point, except the natural inclinations of politicians. Who are public sector bureaucrats with no grasp of how a distributed system like the economy with no central control can possibly function, a faith based on blind ignorance that they can turn it off and on like a light switch with no damage, and little comprehension of what it contributes to society and therefore what is lost any time it is hindered, much less crippled. Combine that with their natural human bias towards themselves, and they revel in the exercise and increase of their powers, rationalize its use and justification, and of course put the most positive spin possible on their own actions. Not to mention their risk aversion and short-sightedness that drives them to avoid anything that might even hint at obvious and immediate harm, while ignoring the long term and more distributed losses, even when they're vastly greater.

But it's become very clear the blanket economic lockdowns had little or no effect on the spread of the disease. It's travel shutdowns, voluntary social distancing, mask wearing, and targeted quarantines that worked.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Shasarak on May 18, 2020, 11:59:11 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1130530
Sorry, thought you were a gringo. Is it true NZ just became a police state?

Police state?  Nah, thats rating our Police force a lot higher then I would.  

Nanny state would be a lot closer to it, there are a lot of people happy to suck from the socialist teat here.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 19, 2020, 12:47:49 AM
Quote from: Shasarak;1130537
Police state?  Nah, thats rating our Police force a lot higher then I would.  

Nanny state would be a lot closer to it, there are a lot of people happy to suck from the socialist teat here.

So like México?
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 19, 2020, 12:48:34 AM
Quote from: Pat;1130533
There's really no excuse for the economic shutdown at this point, except the natural inclinations of politicians. Who are public sector bureaucrats with no grasp of how a distributed system like the economy with no central control can possibly function, a faith based on blind ignorance that they can turn it off and on like a light switch with no damage, and little comprehension of what it contributes to society and therefore what is lost any time it is hindered, much less crippled. Combine that with their natural human bias towards themselves, and they revel in the exercise and increase of their powers, rationalize its use and justification, and of course put the most positive spin possible on their own actions. Not to mention their risk aversion and short-sightedness that drives them to avoid anything that might even hint at obvious and immediate harm, while ignoring the long term and more distributed losses, even when they're vastly greater.

But it's become very clear the blanket economic lockdowns had little or no effect on the spread of the disease. It's travel shutdowns, voluntary social distancing, mask wearing, and targeted quarantines that worked.

Funny the lefties aren't talking about emulating the Netherlands this time around.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on May 19, 2020, 12:53:57 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1130543
Funny the lefties aren't talking about emulating the Netherlands this time around.

Didn't the scandanavians send like a postcard to bernie sanders saying 'Please don't emulate your image of us?'
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: SHARK on May 19, 2020, 02:31:47 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1130541
So like México?


Greetings!

*Laughing*:D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Shasarak on May 19, 2020, 03:58:35 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1130541
So like México?


I have not been to Mexico but I am going to say, nah.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 19, 2020, 10:20:20 AM
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1130547
Didn't the scandanavians send like a postcard to bernie sanders saying 'Please don't emulate your image of us?'

I think it said stop trying to sell your snake oil by saying we bought it because we didn't.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 19, 2020, 10:21:55 AM
Quote from: Shasarak;1130567
I have not been to Mexico but I am going to say, nah.

NZ, lots of ppl wanting to suck on the governments teat.

México, lots of ppl wanting to suck on the governments teat.

Me thinks there's a similarity there.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 19, 2020, 10:27:10 AM
Did some mat, lets say the mortality rate IS 0.26%:

Mexico has 130+ millions population, then 130,000,000 X 0.26% = 338,000 deaths due to the KungFlu

We currently have 10 million at risk due to famine...

Sorry not sorry we should re-open the country's economy YESTERDAY (we shouldn't have closed it, but we were operating with poor knowledge). And fuck anyone that thinks the exchange of human lives for them FEELING safe is moral.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on May 19, 2020, 04:12:17 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1130589
Sorry not sorry we should re-open the country's economy YESTERDAY (we shouldn't have closed it, but we were operating with poor knowledge). And fuck anyone that thinks the exchange of human lives for them FEELING safe is moral.

As an American born who didn't live most of his life in America:

America is insulated by what I call a prosperity field. Their lives are so good and has been so good for so long they kinda don't understand the depths of suffering that are normal everywhere else.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 19, 2020, 08:17:13 PM
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1130626
As an American born who didn't live most of his life in America:

America is insulated by what I call a prosperity field. Their lives are so good and has been so good for so long they kinda don't understand the depths of suffering that are normal everywhere else.

Oh, we have plenty of those here too, mainly city fucks who have never known a single day of hardship.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on May 19, 2020, 08:27:09 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1130660
Oh, we have plenty of those here too, mainly city fucks who have never known a single day of hardship.
I think America is very unique in that sense. I think the great depression + Post WWII did a large number on the american soul (I watched a very interesting interview about that).

While the effects of the great depression in america are exagerated, it did grow this reliance on the government and thats when the nany state handout machine really started and broke allot of conventions before then.

But WWII was the one two punch. Because Post WWII America was on the top of the world in a way thats not been possible....ever. Jobs are plenty because of manpower shortages, and you can get paid a bunch because your tuna can factory is the last one standing in the entire world. In addition while the USSR did the heavy lifting, Americas contributions in the war where vital to ending it. And so America has this view of complete indistructibility and eternal prosperity. And so this idea of 'Well if we are so fucking awesome how come we have this poverty and shit? We can be perfect forever!'.

And thats when the nanny state BS exploded and never stopped.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Pat on May 19, 2020, 10:11:59 PM
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1130626
America is insulated by what I call a prosperity field. Their lives are so good and has been so good for so long they kinda don't understand the depths of suffering that are normal everywhere else.
Except they also exaggerate that suffering, and that creates a serious disconnect. On the one hand, they think they're invincible, and the government can spend whatever it likes and can shut down or control anything, and the costs both direct and indirect are irrelevant; none of that will affect them. On the other hand, there's this narrative that the poor and oppressed are literally starving in the streets of America -- which seems to be based primarily on media images of extreme poverty in other countries. Believing that requires completely ignoring inconvenient facts, like that nobody in the US has starved for probably 80 or 90 years because they couldn't afford food (assuming they're otherwise capable and not severely mentally ill, criminally abused, or the like), or that one of the biggest health risks among the poor is obesity, due to a surplus of easy calories. The average US family below the poverty line has smart phones, cable, 1 to 2 cars, air conditioning, eats out regularly, and has all kinds of luxuries even Americans in equivalent economic straits 30 or 40 years ago lacked. The US poor have homes that are larger than the average (not poor) European homes, make at least twice as much as the average (not poor) family in Mexico, and are so far above the World Bank international extreme poverty line (USD$1.90/day) that it's not even worth analyzing. But with government policies that have discouraged saving and building assets, the majority of Americans except the top few percent can't even handle short term work and income stoppages, and the economy has been stretched thin by a century of overspending and practices designed to shift the costs to the future, which just makes the inevitable bill even larger.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on May 19, 2020, 10:39:15 PM
Quote from: Pat;1130676
Except they also exaggerate that suffering, and that creates a serious disconnect.

Yup. A bubble of prosperity so thick they have no reference to anything outside of it.
I recently found out from somebody that the number of people that starved during the great depression numbered below 200. America at its lowest suffered from more car crash deaths in a month than it ever did from starvation.
When the housing depression happened in the country I lived in gameshows where offering rice to the winners. Thats what poverty is.

Maybe Americans also bought their own hype too much. Its OK to have a history of conquering shit. Everybody has one and thats OK. By making themselves believe that they where these pure angels, when SJWs reveal Americas actual conquestorial history they use this dissonance to undermine EVERYTHING America ever stood for,
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 26, 2020, 10:21:26 AM
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1130677
Yup. A bubble of prosperity so thick they have no reference to anything outside of it.
I recently found out from somebody that the number of people that starved during the great depression numbered below 200. America at its lowest suffered from more car crash deaths in a month than it ever did from starvation.
When the housing depression happened in the country I lived in gameshows where offering rice to the winners. Thats what poverty is.

Maybe Americans also bought their own hype too much. Its OK to have a history of conquering shit. Everybody has one and thats OK. By making themselves believe that they where these pure angels, when SJWs reveal Americas actual conquestorial history they use this dissonance to undermine EVERYTHING America ever stood for,

Most of us sane Americans already knew about our, uh, 'conquestorial' history. Welcome to the arc of human history, which up until relatively recently has been scribed in blood, despair, and death.

SJWs seek to flagellate us over this history while doing nothing to improve. They just want a change in who gets to push who around, instead of saying, 'OK, enough is enough, we're not doing this to ANYONE. Ever again.' So anything that comes out of their muck-ridden pie holes should be taken with a very large grain of salt.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on June 04, 2020, 05:18:27 AM
Geeky, I have great news! Latino Americans are finally fully assimilated into mainstream American culture!

In LA, the rioters are destroying family businesses owned by Latinos.Today, I read about a local Mexican restaurant whose owner was passing out free water to the "peaceful protestors" and they thanked her by raiding her restaurant so she's now afraid to reopen.  And then Latinos complaining about it are being called racists!

But here's a happy story. A bunch of Latino shops are now being guarded by Latino Americans fully armed and ready to rock. Gunstores around LA have huge lines to buy ammo, and according to my friends stocking up, 50% of the line are Latinos.

About two miles from me, a bunch of storefronts were smashed...but nearby there is an old timey Mexican restaurant. It ain't CaliFresh Mex. It's fried in lard Mex. It's totally intact and open...and the dudes out front are chilling with hardware.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 04, 2020, 11:40:42 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1132520
Geeky, I have great news! Latino Americans are finally fully assimilated into mainstream American culture!

In LA, the rioters are destroying family businesses owned by Latinos.Today, I read about a local Mexican restaurant whose owner was passing out free water to the "peaceful protestors" and they thanked her by raiding her restaurant so she's now afraid to reopen.  And then Latinos complaining about it are being called racists!

But here's a happy story. A bunch of Latino shops are now being guarded by Latino Americans fully armed and ready to rock. Gunstores around LA have huge lines to buy ammo, and according to my friends stocking up, 50% of the line are Latinos.

About two miles from me, a bunch of storefronts were smashed...but nearby there is an old timey Mexican restaurant. It ain't CaliFresh Mex. It's fried in lard Mex. It's totally intact and open...and the dudes out front are chilling with hardware.

We've been always white or not, depends of if we bend the knee to the progressives.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on June 04, 2020, 09:15:19 PM
That's dark, but undeniably true.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on June 07, 2020, 06:00:49 AM
In 1992, there were Rooftop Koreans.
In 2020, there are Chainsaw Mexicans!!!

Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 07, 2020, 09:39:04 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1132931
In 1992, there were Rooftop Koreans.
In 2020, there are Chainsaw Mexicans!!!


Saw it, he was Mexican?
Viva México cabrones!

What you probably didn't see was a fucking Antifart terrorist trying to burn alive a cop in Jalisco.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: The Spaniard on June 07, 2020, 05:04:46 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1132520
Geeky, I have great news! Latino Americans are finally fully assimilated into mainstream American culture!

In LA, the rioters are destroying family businesses owned by Latinos.Today, I read about a local Mexican restaurant whose owner was passing out free water to the "peaceful protestors" and they thanked her by raiding her restaurant so she's now afraid to reopen.  And then Latinos complaining about it are being called racists!

But here's a happy story. A bunch of Latino shops are now being guarded by Latino Americans fully armed and ready to rock. Gunstores around LA have huge lines to buy ammo, and according to my friends stocking up, 50% of the line are Latinos.

About two miles from me, a bunch of storefronts were smashed...but nearby there is an old timey Mexican restaurant. It ain't CaliFresh Mex. It's fried in lard Mex. It's totally intact and open...and the dudes out front are chilling with hardware.

In Chicago too.  Several different Mexican American gangs in the Little Village neighborhood have let it be know that folks from the outside coming in their neighborhoods to destroy businesses and create trouble will be dealt with swiftly.  These guys aren't playing.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on June 07, 2020, 06:00:48 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1132941
What you probably didn't see was a fucking Antifart terrorist trying to burn alive a cop in Jalisco.

Hopefully that will be enough for the citizens to realize what this bullshit is really about and take action. AntiFart wants to strip the poor of even the most meager protection to leave nothing but "might makes right", "winner takes all" anarchy.

The cartels and China are laughing their asses off at the West.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 07, 2020, 06:31:18 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1133011
Hopefully that will be enough for the citizens to realize what this bullshit is really about and take action. AntiFart wants to strip the poor of even the most meager protection to leave nothing but "might makes right", "winner takes all" anarchy.

The cartels and China are laughing their asses off at the West.

Not really, lots of idiots here too, one can only hope the majority isn't that kind of idiot and that they know of this, which they might not, most Mexicans don't watch the news ever. Except to get informed about their team's performance.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 07, 2020, 06:33:28 PM
Quote from: The Spaniard;1132998
In Chicago too.  Several different Mexican American gangs in the Little Village neighborhood have let it be know that folks from the outside coming in their neighborhoods to destroy businesses and create trouble will be dealt with swiftly.  These guys aren't playing.

Besides (probably) the goodness of their hearts or ethnic/familial loyalty, you have to understand the gang mentality, if they protect them from a worst evil from outside they gain status and loyalty. Plus many of those gangs started as a form of protection against outsiders.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Lynn on June 07, 2020, 09:15:51 PM
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1130677
Yup. A bubble of prosperity so thick they have no reference to anything outside of it. I recently found out from somebody that the number of people that starved during the great depression numbered below 200. America at its lowest suffered from more car crash deaths in a month than it ever did from starvation. When the housing depression happened in the country I lived in gameshows where offering rice to the winners. Thats what poverty is.


Starved or starved to death? Depending on where you were, locating food wasn't always the problem. A lot of people lost their jobs and their homes. Some were victimized. Some turned to (albeit sometimes petty) crime. There was no safety net other than the kindness of others, and families also pulled together. American media draws from a limited number of sources.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 23, 2020, 12:29:52 PM
Earthquake off the coast of Oaxaca, 7.5 so far no casualties nor serious damage to buildings is reported, on the home front all is good, we just had to do an urgent change of undies due to the scare. :p
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: SHARK on June 23, 2020, 04:45:30 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1135832
Earthquake off the coast of Oaxaca, 7.5 so far no casualties nor serious damage to buildings is reported, on the home front all is good, we just had to do an urgent change of undies due to the scare. :p

Greetings!

Wow! Yeah, Geeky, 7.5 is fucking scary!:D I'm glad you and everyone are ok.

I know earthquakes can be very crazy.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on June 23, 2020, 04:53:01 PM
How much of a shaker did Mexico City get? It's 300 miles from Oaxaca, but being in California, I know how a 5.0 can feel like 7.0 in certain areas...like a city built atop a lake. Glad you're good and the damage reports even in Oaxaca seem minimal. Of course, the aftershocks could come for days and do real damage.  

Hopefully the Ring of Fire stays mellow.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Shasarak on June 23, 2020, 04:55:35 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1135832
Earthquake off the coast of Oaxaca, 7.5 so far no casualties nor serious damage to buildings is reported, on the home front all is good, we just had to do an urgent change of undies due to the scare. :p

Damn Climate Change.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 23, 2020, 05:08:24 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1135867
How much of a shaker did Mexico City get? It's 300 miles from Oaxaca, but being in California, I know how a 5.0 can feel like 7.0 in certain areas...like a city built atop a lake. Glad you're good and the damage reports even in Oaxaca seem minimal. Of course, the aftershocks could come for days and do real damage.  

Hopefully the Ring of Fire stays mellow.

There was some damage, especially on Oaxaca, you almost get it, México City is built on top of a lake, meaning most of our buildings don't really have solid ground underneath. Which is why it feels so much here and causes so much damage, luckily this one was oscillatory and not trepidatory.

Already got an aftershock of about 5, hopefully it keeps coming all week at lower intensities each time.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 23, 2020, 05:09:07 PM
Quote from: SHARK;1135863
Greetings!

Wow! Yeah, Geeky, 7.5 is fucking scary!:D I'm glad you and everyone are ok.

I know earthquakes can be very crazy.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Yeah, luckily it didn't last long.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 05, 2020, 02:05:49 PM
Fuck me! Now the idiots are celebrating our dear comrade Leader El Presidente justifying his policies on shit the pedo protector Pope Francisco says.

"Defending the poor isn't communism is the heart of the gospel"

I don't fucking care what the Pope says, we're supposed to have a secular state by our constitution, and these same idiots (and me) criticized the then president Fox Quesada for kissing the Pope's ring in his visit to The Vatican.

But the "conservatives" are his critics?

México is magic, only here you can see the left embracing Catholicism when it suits them.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: moonsweeper on August 05, 2020, 04:36:12 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1143448
Fuck me! Now the idiots are celebrating our dear comrade Leader El Presidente justifying his policies on shit the pedo protector Pope Francisco says.

"Defending the poor isn't communism is the heart of the gospel"

I don't fucking care what the Pope says, we're supposed to have a secular state by our constitution, and these same idiots (and me) criticized the then president Fox Quesada for kissing the Pope's ring in his visit to The Vatican.

But the "conservatives" are his critics?

México is magic, only here you can see the left embracing Catholicism when it suits them.

It happens on this side of the border as well...

They really are the same everywhere.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on August 07, 2020, 06:14:28 PM
Most Catholics only embrace Catholicism when it suits them.

But its the same with all Christians, and I suspect common among other faiths.

Where are the Catholics, Pedo Pope or any random Bishop when BLM is calling for the destruction of the family and defunding the cops, both which will cause the most suffering to the most vulnerable - especially when many of those cities have large Catholic immigrant populations?

Silent...or rallying alongside BLM.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: SHARK on August 09, 2020, 07:31:57 AM
Quote from: moonsweeper;1143472
It happens on this side of the border as well...

They really are the same everywhere.


Greetings!

Isn't that the truth, Moonsweeper? Leftists are so duplicitous and swarmy. They conveniently embrace some twisted, distorted version of Christianity--some horrifying fraud and mockery of Christianity--so as to cloak themselves in the robes of the faithful, meanwhile seeking to open up more doors to debauchery, fraud, and tyranny. They are slimy, diseased fucking rats.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Shasarak on August 09, 2020, 04:58:14 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1143727
Most Catholics only embrace Catholicism when it suits them.

Catholics are, with out a doubt, the worst of all Christians.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: moonsweeper on August 09, 2020, 08:34:31 PM
Quote from: Shasarak;1143972
Catholics are, with out a doubt, the worst of all Christians.

It comes from their absolute obeisance to the hierarchy.  That conflicts with the egalitarian nature of a lot of Christ's teachings.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Snowman0147 on August 09, 2020, 09:33:32 PM
Quote from: moonsweeper;1143994
It comes from their absolute obeisance to the hierarchy.  That conflicts with the egalitarian nature of a lot of Christ's teachings.

Jesus when he lived is known for pissing off the Jewish priests while fighting for the rights of the jewish people.  Jesus's biggest act against them by flipping the priests's tables because they treated their sacred temple as nothing more than street market full of lies.  

Why?  Because those jewish priests betrayed the jewish people, sold out to the romans, and betrayed God himself.  Jesus naturally rejected that shit and he will naturally reject the current shit the marxists Pope is doing now.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 10, 2020, 08:29:46 AM
Quote from: Snowman0147;1144004
Jesus when he lived is known for pissing off the Jewish priests while fighting for the rights of the jewish people.  Jesus's biggest act against them by flipping the priests's tables because they treated their sacred temple as nothing more than street market full of lies.  

Why?  Because those jewish priests betrayed the jewish people, sold out to the romans, and betrayed God himself.  Jesus naturally rejected that shit and he will naturally reject the current shit the marxists Pope is doing now.

When people ask 'what would Jesus do?', remind them that flipping tables and chasing people with a whip is not out of the question.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Snowman0147 on August 10, 2020, 09:39:20 AM
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1144053
When people ask 'what would Jesus do?', remind them that flipping tables and chasing people with a whip is not out of the question.

Especially when the fuckers are corrupt authority figures who betrayed their own people.  Gee...  No wonder democrats hate God.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: RandyB on August 10, 2020, 10:02:47 AM
Quote from: Snowman0147;1144062
Especially when the fuckers are corrupt authority figures who betrayed their own people.  Gee...  No wonder democrats hate God.

You got the order of precedence backwards. They hated God first. The rest followed inevitably.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Garry G on August 10, 2020, 11:56:16 AM
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1144053
When people ask 'what would Jesus do?', remind them that flipping tables and chasing people with a whip is not out of the question.

Was that the money changers and merchants?
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 10, 2020, 01:01:58 PM
Quote from: Garry G;1144082
Was that the money changers and merchants?

Of course.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: RandyB on August 10, 2020, 01:26:21 PM
Quote from: Garry G;1144082
Was that the money changers and merchants?

Quote from: Ghostmaker;1144087
Of course.

Specifically, the ones inside the temple grounds. The ones outside, he left alone - he never spoke against them as severely as he did the Hebrew religious leaders, which he did constantly.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Garry G on August 10, 2020, 01:35:52 PM
Quote from: RandyB;1144094
Specifically, the ones inside the temple grounds. The ones outside, he left alone - he never spoke against them as severely as he did the Hebrew religious leaders, which he did constantly.

I'm not getting you. I took it as his problem was usurers preying on people within their own society. That seems to go with the whole taking advantage of the poor is bad narrative.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: RandyB on August 10, 2020, 01:59:09 PM
Quote from: Garry G;1144098
I'm not getting you. I took it as his problem was usurers preying on people within their own society. That seems to go with the whole taking advantage of the poor is bad narrative.

His problem was that mercantile transactions were taking place in a space reserved for holy use - the temple grounds.

Indirectly, it was yet another condemnation of the Hebrew religious leaders for allowing on temple grounds what should have been kept outside the temple.

It is true that Jesus hated usury. But his greatest criticisms were aimed at the religious leaders, who were more concerned about their social status and privileges than they were about the people they were supposed to be taking care of. Like today's politicians, in fact.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Garry G on August 10, 2020, 02:26:59 PM
Quote from: RandyB;1144110
His problem was that mercantile transactions were taking place in a space reserved for holy use - the temple grounds.

Indirectly, it was yet another condemnation of the Hebrew religious leaders for allowing on temple grounds what should have been kept outside the temple.

It is true that Jesus hated usury. But his greatest criticisms were aimed at the religious leaders, who were more concerned about their social status and privileges than they were about the people they were supposed to be taking care of. Like today's politicians, in fact.

Yes, Jesus is angry at religion debasing itself under mammon. It's a fairly socialist take.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: RandyB on August 10, 2020, 02:42:47 PM
Quote from: Garry G;1144121
Yes, Jesus is angry at religion debasing itself under mammon. It's a fairly socialist take.

Except Jesus isn't a socialist. Nor is he a capitalist.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Garry G on August 10, 2020, 02:52:26 PM
Quote from: RandyB;1144123
Except Jesus isn't a socialist. Nor is he a capitalist.

Absolutely not but different readings can be taken.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 10, 2020, 03:07:33 PM
Quote from: Garry G;1144127
Absolutely not but different readings can be taken.

Yeah, creative interpretations allow for all sorts of fascinating results.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Garry G on August 10, 2020, 03:11:01 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1144130
Yeah, creative interpretations allow for all sorts of fascinating results.

I don't know. I mean he is angry at moneylenders taking advantage of people in a place that's spiritually important to them. It's not a massive leap.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: RandyB on August 10, 2020, 03:11:25 PM
Quote from: Garry G;1144127
Absolutely not but different readings can be taken.

Quote from: Ghostmaker;1144130
Yeah, creative interpretations allow for all sorts of fascinating results.

And not all interpretations and readings are equally valid. Most are not valid at all.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Garry G on August 10, 2020, 03:36:41 PM
Quote from: RandyB;1144132
And not all interpretations and readings are equally valid. Most are not valid at all.

Absolutely, your interpretation may be completely invalid. In the spirit of conversation I wouldn't immediately jump to that but it's a fair option.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 10, 2020, 04:03:39 PM
Quote from: Garry G;1144136
Absolutely, your interpretation may be completely invalid. In the spirit of conversation I wouldn't immediately jump to that but it's a fair option.

So your viewpoint is that Jesus's anger over the moneylenders was because of socialist views.

It had nothing to do with profaning a place of worship.

Is that your case?
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Garry G on August 10, 2020, 04:25:24 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1144145
So your viewpoint is that Jesus's anger over the moneylenders was because of socialist views.

It had nothing to do with profaning a place of worship.

Is that your case?

You could argue that usury is in itself ungodly and bringing it into the house of God was particularly vile. I'm not sure that's a socialist view as such but hey Jesus.

To be fair I'm an atheist Catholic so hey Jesus.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: RandyB on August 10, 2020, 04:48:25 PM
Quote from: Garry G;1144147
You could argue that usury is in itself ungodly and bringing it into the house of God was particularly vile. I'm not sure that's a socialist view as such but hey Jesus.

To be fair I'm an atheist Catholic so hey Jesus.

I'll buy that argument - and it's not a socialist view.

And I'm not an atheist.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on August 11, 2020, 02:04:00 AM
The case is that Jews are to be charitable to other jews. Maybe that plays into it? Im not a christian, so I dont super know Jesus.

Whatever the case socialism, could only have worked under a person who could produce infinite resources. However socialists also hate holding themselves to any sort of ethical, cultural, or personal or outwardly standard so he still does not remain popular with said crowd.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: EOTB on August 11, 2020, 04:04:27 AM
It seems bizarre to me that the moneychanger flogging is somehow attributed to someone's favored flavor of economics.  The issue was related to sanctity: what was required, what was ignored, what the purpose of sanctification was, and who was supposed to be honored by the sanctified space.  That anyone could [edit - claim to be familiar with the passage, and] see this as an economic statement, instead of economics being entirely incidental to the statement, only showcases a severe inability to discern context from a written work.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: RandyB on August 11, 2020, 08:45:55 AM
Quote from: EOTB;1144280
It seems bizarre to me that the moneychanger flogging is somehow attributed to someone's favored flavor of economics.  The issue was related to sanctity: what was required, what was ignored, what the purpose of sanctification was, and who was supposed to be honored by the sanctified space.  That anyone could [edit - claim to be familiar with the passage, and] see this as an economic statement, instead of economics being entirely incidental to the statement, only showcases a severe inability to discern context from a written work.

Or a willful reinterpretation to support a favored conclusion. The latter is sometimes intentionally disguised as the former.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on August 27, 2020, 09:53:06 PM
Geeky, what's up in Mexico?

I've heard Obrador says the economy is rebounding, but is that real?  

Also what's your take on the big oil corruption scandal and the videos that have surfaced?
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 27, 2020, 09:56:46 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1146733
Geeky, what's up in Mexico?

I've heard Obrador says the economy is rebounding, but is that real?  

Also what's your take on the big oil corruption scandal and the videos that have surfaced?

All our government is and has always been corrupt, no surprise there.

As for the economy rebounding... sorta, kinda true. Since they are allowing some limited reopening.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on August 27, 2020, 10:53:53 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1146734
All our government is and has always been corrupt, no surprise there.

Is this scandal going to mean anything or it just Tuesday?
Or not even Tuesday because at least Tuesday has tacos. :)

Does AMLO still have a strong fanbase?

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1146734
As for the economy rebounding... sorta, kinda true. Since they are allowing some limited reopening.

That's better than totally collapsing the economy! The Economist estimates Mexico lost 20% of its economy and I thought that sounded low.
Title: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 27, 2020, 11:15:51 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1146742
Is this scandal going to mean anything or it just Tuesday?
Or not even Tuesday because at least Tuesday has tacos. :)


If by mean something you mean someone guilty ends in jail, probably not, if you mean the government will fold nope.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1146742
Does AMLO still have a strong fanbase?


I think so, yes, the man did what Trump and went to the small towns, those people don't have internet, and he has kept going constantly, plus he's giving his voter base free money.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1146742
That's better than totally collapsing the economy! The Economist estimates Mexico lost 20% of its economy and I thought that sounded low.


I think it's more like 50%, but only time will tell, we can't trust the media nor the government numbers so only when the train hits us we'll know what's what.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on November 09, 2020, 05:51:34 PM
What are your thoughts on Mexico legalizing pot?

It's hysterical that AMLO won't suck Biden's dick, oops I mean "congratulate" him, until the legal challenges are done. I suspect the strong Trump support from middle class Latino-Americans is making AMLO think twice before pissing on future tourist dollars. Plus his own experience with elections.

Also, how is CoronaChan doing in Mexico?
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on December 09, 2020, 12:13:52 AM
What are your thoughts on Mexico legalizing pot?

It's hysterical that AMLO won't suck Biden's dick, oops I mean "congratulate" him, until the legal challenges are done. I suspect the strong Trump support from middle class Latino-Americans is making AMLO think twice before pissing on future tourist dollars. Plus his own experience with elections.

Also, how is CoronaChan doing in Mexico?

Actually it was his fear of congratulating the wrong one, but he finally sucumbed to pressure (like with the lockdowns) and has (or is about to) congratulated Beijing Biden.

As for legalizing pot...

ALL drugs should be legal IMHO, but the "legalization" they were doing (asked the SCOM permission to differ it) was a wattered down one, only allowing for growing 2 plants and only for your own consumption or provided you do not sell it for others. So the Narco will not see their bussiness very much cut down since most people don't even have where the fuck to grow the thing and the government is liable to break your door on trumped up charges of dealing if you do.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 09, 2020, 08:24:41 AM
What are your thoughts on Mexico legalizing pot?

It's hysterical that AMLO won't suck Biden's dick, oops I mean "congratulate" him, until the legal challenges are done. I suspect the strong Trump support from middle class Latino-Americans is making AMLO think twice before pissing on future tourist dollars. Plus his own experience with elections.

Also, how is CoronaChan doing in Mexico?

Actually it was his fear of congratulating the wrong one, but he finally sucumbed to pressure (like with the lockdowns) and has (or is about to) congratulated Beijing Biden.

As for legalizing pot...

ALL drugs should be legal IMHO, but the "legalization" they were doing (asked the SCOM permission to differ it) was a wattered down one, only allowing for growing 2 plants and only for your own consumption or provided you do not sell it for others. So the Narco will not see their bussiness very much cut down since most people don't even have where the fuck to grow the thing and the government is liable to break your door on trumped up charges of dealing if you do.
Hey Geeky, where you been? :) It's been too quiet without you.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: HappyDaze on December 09, 2020, 10:00:13 AM
What are your thoughts on Mexico legalizing pot?

It's hysterical that AMLO won't suck Biden's dick, oops I mean "congratulate" him, until the legal challenges are done. I suspect the strong Trump support from middle class Latino-Americans is making AMLO think twice before pissing on future tourist dollars. Plus his own experience with elections.

Also, how is CoronaChan doing in Mexico?

Actually it was his fear of congratulating the wrong one, but he finally sucumbed to pressure (like with the lockdowns) and has (or is about to) congratulated Beijing Biden.

As for legalizing pot...

ALL drugs should be legal IMHO, but the "legalization" they were doing (asked the SCOM permission to differ it) was a wattered down one, only allowing for growing 2 plants and only for your own consumption or provided you do not sell it for others. So the Narco will not see their bussiness very much cut down since most people don't even have where the fuck to grow the thing and the government is liable to break your door on trumped up charges of dealing if you do.
Hey Geeky, where you been? :) It's been too quiet without you.
Presumably, he's still in Mexico.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: moonsweeper on December 09, 2020, 11:34:45 AM

Actually it was his fear of congratulating the wrong one, but he finally sucumbed to pressure (like with the lockdowns) and has (or is about to) congratulated Beijing Biden.

As for legalizing pot...

ALL drugs should be legal IMHO, but the "legalization" they were doing (asked the SCOM permission to differ it) was a wattered down one, only allowing for growing 2 plants and only for your own consumption or provided you do not sell it for others. So the Narco will not see their bussiness very much cut down since most people don't even have where the fuck to grow the thing and the government is liable to break your door on trumped up charges of dealing if you do.

Hola Geeky!

What have you been up to?
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: SHARK on December 09, 2020, 01:09:43 PM
Greetings!

Damn, Hermano! About fucking time! I've missed you! I hope you have been doing good!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on January 06, 2021, 07:54:02 PM
What are your thoughts on Mexico legalizing pot?

It's hysterical that AMLO won't suck Biden's dick, oops I mean "congratulate" him, until the legal challenges are done. I suspect the strong Trump support from middle class Latino-Americans is making AMLO think twice before pissing on future tourist dollars. Plus his own experience with elections.

Also, how is CoronaChan doing in Mexico?

Actually it was his fear of congratulating the wrong one, but he finally sucumbed to pressure (like with the lockdowns) and has (or is about to) congratulated Beijing Biden.

As for legalizing pot...

ALL drugs should be legal IMHO, but the "legalization" they were doing (asked the SCOM permission to differ it) was a wattered down one, only allowing for growing 2 plants and only for your own consumption or provided you do not sell it for others. So the Narco will not see their bussiness very much cut down since most people don't even have where the fuck to grow the thing and the government is liable to break your door on trumped up charges of dealing if you do.
Hey Geeky, where you been? :) It's been too quiet without you.

Working on translating Cowboy World to spanish (It's a PbtA game)
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on January 06, 2021, 07:54:32 PM
What are your thoughts on Mexico legalizing pot?

It's hysterical that AMLO won't suck Biden's dick, oops I mean "congratulate" him, until the legal challenges are done. I suspect the strong Trump support from middle class Latino-Americans is making AMLO think twice before pissing on future tourist dollars. Plus his own experience with elections.

Also, how is CoronaChan doing in Mexico?

Actually it was his fear of congratulating the wrong one, but he finally sucumbed to pressure (like with the lockdowns) and has (or is about to) congratulated Beijing Biden.

As for legalizing pot...

ALL drugs should be legal IMHO, but the "legalization" they were doing (asked the SCOM permission to differ it) was a wattered down one, only allowing for growing 2 plants and only for your own consumption or provided you do not sell it for others. So the Narco will not see their bussiness very much cut down since most people don't even have where the fuck to grow the thing and the government is liable to break your door on trumped up charges of dealing if you do.
Hey Geeky, where you been? :) It's been too quiet without you.
Presumably, he's still in Mexico.

Guilty as charged
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on January 06, 2021, 07:55:06 PM

Actually it was his fear of congratulating the wrong one, but he finally sucumbed to pressure (like with the lockdowns) and has (or is about to) congratulated Beijing Biden.

As for legalizing pot...

ALL drugs should be legal IMHO, but the "legalization" they were doing (asked the SCOM permission to differ it) was a wattered down one, only allowing for growing 2 plants and only for your own consumption or provided you do not sell it for others. So the Narco will not see their bussiness very much cut down since most people don't even have where the fuck to grow the thing and the government is liable to break your door on trumped up charges of dealing if you do.

Hola Geeky!

What have you been up to?

Working on translating to spanish a PbtA game (Cowboy World)
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on January 06, 2021, 07:55:46 PM
Greetings!

Damn, Hermano! About fucking time! I've missed you! I hope you have been doing good!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

As good as you can be with this damn endless lockdown. Thanks, and you?
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 07, 2021, 08:11:27 AM
What are your thoughts on Mexico legalizing pot?

It's hysterical that AMLO won't suck Biden's dick, oops I mean "congratulate" him, until the legal challenges are done. I suspect the strong Trump support from middle class Latino-Americans is making AMLO think twice before pissing on future tourist dollars. Plus his own experience with elections.

Also, how is CoronaChan doing in Mexico?

Actually it was his fear of congratulating the wrong one, but he finally sucumbed to pressure (like with the lockdowns) and has (or is about to) congratulated Beijing Biden.

As for legalizing pot...

ALL drugs should be legal IMHO, but the "legalization" they were doing (asked the SCOM permission to differ it) was a wattered down one, only allowing for growing 2 plants and only for your own consumption or provided you do not sell it for others. So the Narco will not see their bussiness very much cut down since most people don't even have where the fuck to grow the thing and the government is liable to break your door on trumped up charges of dealing if you do.
Hey Geeky, where you been? :) It's been too quiet without you.

Working on translating Cowboy World to spanish (It's a PbtA game)
Sounds neat. Glad to hear from you, to be honest. Things up here, as you have probably heard, have gotten a bit wild and crazy.

Are there job opportunities in Mexico? Maybe the Cartels need a quality control guy for the drugs? Kidding, kidding...
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on January 07, 2021, 12:18:01 PM
What are your thoughts on Mexico legalizing pot?

It's hysterical that AMLO won't suck Biden's dick, oops I mean "congratulate" him, until the legal challenges are done. I suspect the strong Trump support from middle class Latino-Americans is making AMLO think twice before pissing on future tourist dollars. Plus his own experience with elections.

Also, how is CoronaChan doing in Mexico?

Actually it was his fear of congratulating the wrong one, but he finally sucumbed to pressure (like with the lockdowns) and has (or is about to) congratulated Beijing Biden.

As for legalizing pot...

ALL drugs should be legal IMHO, but the "legalization" they were doing (asked the SCOM permission to differ it) was a wattered down one, only allowing for growing 2 plants and only for your own consumption or provided you do not sell it for others. So the Narco will not see their bussiness very much cut down since most people don't even have where the fuck to grow the thing and the government is liable to break your door on trumped up charges of dealing if you do.
Hey Geeky, where you been? :) It's been too quiet without you.

Working on translating Cowboy World to spanish (It's a PbtA game)
Sounds neat. Glad to hear from you, to be honest. Things up here, as you have probably heard, have gotten a bit wild and crazy.

Are there job opportunities in Mexico? Maybe the Cartels need a quality control guy for the drugs? Kidding, kidding...

Well if you're willing to shill for the dear comrade leader he has proven he welcomes foreigners to meddle in our politics provided it's on his side.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on January 09, 2021, 09:43:22 PM
Mexican President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador said that Twitter and Facebook made the wrong decision in blocking President Trump from their platforms.

Lopez Obrador said the move provided a hindrance to freedom of speech in a press briefing on Friday.

"How can you censor someone? Let’s see, I, as the judge of the Holy Inquisition, will punish you because I think what you’re saying is harmful?" he remarked. "Where is the law, where is the regulation, what are the norms? This is an issue of government. This is not an issue for private companies."


https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/mexican-president-twitter-facebook-blocking-trump (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/mexican-president-twitter-facebook-blocking-trump)

Wow! Hats off to AMLO if this is true. He's got more respect for free speech than our "elected" officials!
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: myleftnut on January 10, 2021, 01:07:07 AM
AMLO is in the pocket of the cartels, fuck that puto. 

“No a la guerra, si a la paz, nada de declarar la guerra, eso no es solución, eso ya sabemos lo que ocasiona, siempre se va a proteger a la gente, sin masacres, con inteligencia más que con fuerza y no se va a caer en ninguna provocación”

Google translate it if you’re interested.  This was after a large massacre of civilians.  Some real bitch made words.

Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: VisionStorm on January 10, 2021, 12:25:07 PM
AMLO is in the pocket of the cartels, fuck that puto. 

“No a la guerra, si a la paz, nada de declarar la guerra, eso no es solución, eso ya sabemos lo que ocasiona, siempre se va a proteger a la gente, sin masacres, con inteligencia más que con fuerza y no se va a caer en ninguna provocación”

Google translate it if you’re interested.  This was after a large massacre of civilians.  Some real bitch made words.

Those words sound totally innocuous--even laudable (at least to some)--without some clear context of what went down and what else he was saying when he said them.

PS: Jesus Christ! You lazy fuck: "No to war, yes to peace. Nothing about declaring war, that is not a solution, we already know what that causes. People will always be protected, without massacres, with intelligence more than with strength and (we) won't fall into any provocation."

(or something to that effect, the guy apparently has this passive way of phrasing things, like instead of saying "We will protect people", which can be said in Spanish "nosotros vamos a proteger a la genete", he phrases it more like "People will be protected", like it will happen on its own. The entire quote is written in that tone.)
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: myleftnut on January 10, 2021, 06:46:26 PM
AMLO is in the pocket of the cartels, fuck that puto. 

“No a la guerra, si a la paz, nada de declarar la guerra, eso no es solución, eso ya sabemos lo que ocasiona, siempre se va a proteger a la gente, sin masacres, con inteligencia más que con fuerza y no se va a caer en ninguna provocación”

Google translate it if you’re interested.  This was after a large massacre of civilians.  Some real bitch made words.

Those words sound totally innocuous--even laudable (at least to some)--without some clear context of what went down and what else he was saying when he said them.

PS: Jesus Christ! You lazy fuck: "No to war, yes to peace. Nothing about declaring war, that is not a solution, we already know what that causes. People will always be protected, without massacres, with intelligence more than with strength and (we) won't fall into any provocation."

(or something to that effect, the guy apparently has this passive way of phrasing things, like instead of saying "We will protect people", which can be said in Spanish "nosotros vamos a proteger a la genete", he phrases it more like "People will be protected", like it will happen on its own. The entire quote is written in that tone.)

I’m a Mexican American.  I know what those words mean. The cartels have operated with impunity.  Tell my family in Juarez those words are laudable.  I hoped the cartels would resolve their disputes and things would chill out but their constant attacks on civilians shows Mexico needs a president who WILL declare war.  The cartels need to be crushed. 
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: myleftnut on January 10, 2021, 09:25:18 PM
@GeekyBugle.   chilango?   
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on January 11, 2021, 04:32:25 AM
I doubt a Mexican president would survive a war with the cartels. The cartels appear to own Mexico the same way China owns America now. The time to crush the cartels, like the time to crush the communist bitches in America, has sadly passed...or is now in the hands of the people.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: myleftnut on January 12, 2021, 01:35:07 AM
I doubt a Mexican president would survive a war with the cartels. The cartels appear to own Mexico the same way China owns America now. The time to crush the cartels, like the time to crush the communist bitches in America, has sadly passed...or is now in the hands of the people.

Sadly you are correct.  Being of Mexican descent is the reason I don’t support gun control of any kind except background checks.  Mexico is the prefect example of why it doesn’t work to stop violence.  When good people arm themselves, I call that “order”.  There are several movements where locals have started to arm themselves.  The government has been cracking down.  Eventually I hope those movements gain enough steam to be sustained. 
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: SHARK on January 12, 2021, 06:41:25 AM
I doubt a Mexican president would survive a war with the cartels. The cartels appear to own Mexico the same way China owns America now. The time to crush the cartels, like the time to crush the communist bitches in America, has sadly passed...or is now in the hands of the people.

Sadly you are correct.  Being of Mexican descent is the reason I don’t support gun control of any kind except background checks.  Mexico is the prefect example of why it doesn’t work to stop violence.  When good people arm themselves, I call that “order”.  There are several movements where locals have started to arm themselves.  The government has been cracking down.  Eventually I hope those movements gain enough steam to be sustained.

Greetings!

Hopefully, Mexico can fight and become free. It is a constant and ongoing tragedy that Mexico suffers through such a corrupt monstrosity of oppression. When ordinary citizens are unarmed, they become the slaves to criminals and whoever is running the government.

It is mind boggling to me though how there are so many stupid, ignorant, sheep in this country that are eager to become helpless slaves and sheep. They blindly ignore what can be seen in other nations, such as Mexico. Over the years, so many people from Britain, from Australia, from Canada, from Mexico, and more, have told Americans "Don't ever give up your guns like we did! Don't let them take your guns away!"

So far, our 2nd Amendment and the massive gun ownership in America has acted as a powerful foundation of protection against tyranny here, as well as lawlessness. Over the years however, in various states, different Governors, Attorney Generals, and Legislators have ignored the Constitution, and routinely and steadily violated American citizen's rights, most particularly the resident citizens of such states. It is never a good thing, as such actions, policies, and laws then serve as precedents and examples to would-be tyrants and corrupts bureaucrats in other states, that then seek to embrace such BS and spread it to other states. It's maddening, and a constant struggle for vigilance in maintaining freedom.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 12, 2021, 08:29:50 AM
Part of it has to do with resistance to tyranny, yes. People like to trot out the tired 'your AR-15 won't stop a tank or a nuke', completely forgetting how insurgencies work.

You can't stay in a tank 24-7. You have to get out and piss, if nothing else. The tank needs fuel and rounds. Basic modern warfare requires tanks that enter urban environments to be screened with infantry because all it takes is a good-sized IED or some asshole who stole a man-portable anti-tank weapon to make a mess of things. Even if you kill the shooter, if he breaks your tank, he comes out ahead.

But another angle is self-reliance. Self-reliant, confident people are not as in need of big government as subjects are. They'll take care of your problems on their own initiative. Might be messy, sure, but it's a lot cheaper in the long run.

And of course, a quote I've passed around before and will do so again:

"Gun control is the assertion that a woman raped and strangled in an alley is somehow morally superior to one who shoots her attacker stone dead."

"Gun control is the assertion that a black man dragged to death behind a pickup truck is somehow morally superior to one who shoots his attackers stone dead."

"Gun control is the assertion that a trans individual kicked to pieces is somehow morally superior to one who shoots their attacker stone dead."

The end. Fuck gun control.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on January 18, 2021, 12:01:51 PM
Mexican President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador said that Twitter and Facebook made the wrong decision in blocking President Trump from their platforms.

Lopez Obrador said the move provided a hindrance to freedom of speech in a press briefing on Friday.

"How can you censor someone? Let’s see, I, as the judge of the Holy Inquisition, will punish you because I think what you’re saying is harmful?" he remarked. "Where is the law, where is the regulation, what are the norms? This is an issue of government. This is not an issue for private companies."


https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/mexican-president-twitter-facebook-blocking-trump (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/mexican-president-twitter-facebook-blocking-trump)

Wow! Hats off to AMLO if this is true. He's got more respect for free speech than our "elected" officials!

Yes, he did say that, one of the things I have to applaud of him even if his politics/ideas are in general anathema to a freedom loving individual. (or to anyone with two brain celss to rub together and form a synapse)
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on January 18, 2021, 12:03:28 PM
AMLO is in the pocket of the cartels, fuck that puto. 

“No a la guerra, si a la paz, nada de declarar la guerra, eso no es solución, eso ya sabemos lo que ocasiona, siempre se va a proteger a la gente, sin masacres, con inteligencia más que con fuerza y no se va a caer en ninguna provocación”

Google translate it if you’re interested.  This was after a large massacre of civilians.  Some real bitch made words.

Like every other president before him, the "war on drugs" has failed as it was meant to be, because prohibition only breeds crime and crime cartels.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on January 18, 2021, 12:07:07 PM
AMLO is in the pocket of the cartels, fuck that puto. 

“No a la guerra, si a la paz, nada de declarar la guerra, eso no es solución, eso ya sabemos lo que ocasiona, siempre se va a proteger a la gente, sin masacres, con inteligencia más que con fuerza y no se va a caer en ninguna provocación”

Google translate it if you’re interested.  This was after a large massacre of civilians.  Some real bitch made words.

Those words sound totally innocuous--even laudable (at least to some)--without some clear context of what went down and what else he was saying when he said them.

PS: Jesus Christ! You lazy fuck: "No to war, yes to peace. Nothing about declaring war, that is not a solution, we already know what that causes. People will always be protected, without massacres, with intelligence more than with strength and (we) won't fall into any provocation."

(or something to that effect, the guy apparently has this passive way of phrasing things, like instead of saying "We will protect people", which can be said in Spanish "nosotros vamos a proteger a la genete", he phrases it more like "People will be protected", like it will happen on its own. The entire quote is written in that tone.)

I’m a Mexican American.  I know what those words mean. The cartels have operated with impunity.  Tell my family in Juarez those words are laudable.  I hoped the cartels would resolve their disputes and things would chill out but their constant attacks on civilians shows Mexico needs a president who WILL declare war.  The cartels need to be crushed.

Partly correct, it was during the "drug war" that a certain town in the north got all it's police murdered, including their families.

Prohibitions has never worked and never will, as long as the "crime" is a victimless one it should be removed from the laws as a "crime".

Important distinction because even if CP and other pedo interests can never truly be eliminated those should remain illegal because there's a victim.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on January 18, 2021, 12:07:34 PM
@GeekyBugle.   chilango?

Guilty as charged.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on January 18, 2021, 12:08:59 PM
I doubt a Mexican president would survive a war with the cartels. The cartels appear to own Mexico the same way China owns America now. The time to crush the cartels, like the time to crush the communist bitches in America, has sadly passed...or is now in the hands of the people.

Sadly you are correct.  Being of Mexican descent is the reason I don’t support gun control of any kind except background checks.  Mexico is the prefect example of why it doesn’t work to stop violence.  When good people arm themselves, I call that “order”.  There are several movements where locals have started to arm themselves.  The government has been cracking down.  Eventually I hope those movements gain enough steam to be sustained.

Preach it!
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on January 18, 2021, 12:10:06 PM
I doubt a Mexican president would survive a war with the cartels. The cartels appear to own Mexico the same way China owns America now. The time to crush the cartels, like the time to crush the communist bitches in America, has sadly passed...or is now in the hands of the people.

Sadly you are correct.  Being of Mexican descent is the reason I don’t support gun control of any kind except background checks.  Mexico is the prefect example of why it doesn’t work to stop violence.  When good people arm themselves, I call that “order”.  There are several movements where locals have started to arm themselves.  The government has been cracking down.  Eventually I hope those movements gain enough steam to be sustained.

Greetings!

Hopefully, Mexico can fight and become free. It is a constant and ongoing tragedy that Mexico suffers through such a corrupt monstrosity of oppression. When ordinary citizens are unarmed, they become the slaves to criminals and whoever is running the government.

It is mind boggling to me though how there are so many stupid, ignorant, sheep in this country that are eager to become helpless slaves and sheep. They blindly ignore what can be seen in other nations, such as Mexico. Over the years, so many people from Britain, from Australia, from Canada, from Mexico, and more, have told Americans "Don't ever give up your guns like we did! Don't let them take your guns away!"

So far, our 2nd Amendment and the massive gun ownership in America has acted as a powerful foundation of protection against tyranny here, as well as lawlessness. Over the years however, in various states, different Governors, Attorney Generals, and Legislators have ignored the Constitution, and routinely and steadily violated American citizen's rights, most particularly the resident citizens of such states. It is never a good thing, as such actions, policies, and laws then serve as precedents and examples to would-be tyrants and corrupts bureaucrats in other states, that then seek to embrace such BS and spread it to other states. It's maddening, and a constant struggle for vigilance in maintaining freedom.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

You forget decades of socialist indoctrination in your school system, sadly in mine it has been going on for far longer.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on January 18, 2021, 12:10:54 PM
Part of it has to do with resistance to tyranny, yes. People like to trot out the tired 'your AR-15 won't stop a tank or a nuke', completely forgetting how insurgencies work.

You can't stay in a tank 24-7. You have to get out and piss, if nothing else. The tank needs fuel and rounds. Basic modern warfare requires tanks that enter urban environments to be screened with infantry because all it takes is a good-sized IED or some asshole who stole a man-portable anti-tank weapon to make a mess of things. Even if you kill the shooter, if he breaks your tank, he comes out ahead.

But another angle is self-reliance. Self-reliant, confident people are not as in need of big government as subjects are. They'll take care of your problems on their own initiative. Might be messy, sure, but it's a lot cheaper in the long run.

And of course, a quote I've passed around before and will do so again:

"Gun control is the assertion that a woman raped and strangled in an alley is somehow morally superior to one who shoots her attacker stone dead."

"Gun control is the assertion that a black man dragged to death behind a pickup truck is somehow morally superior to one who shoots his attackers stone dead."

"Gun control is the assertion that a trans individual kicked to pieces is somehow morally superior to one who shoots their attacker stone dead."

The end. Fuck gun control.

Agreed 1000% and will steal those quotes for a T-Shirt.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on January 18, 2021, 06:54:36 PM
Yes, he did say that, one of the things I have to applaud of him even if his politics/ideas are in general anathema to a freedom loving individual. (or to anyone with two brain celss to rub together and form a synapse)

What is the law in Mexico regarding freedom of speech / expression?

Do you believe AMLO really is going to push against social media censorship? Or only if Twatter and Farcebook decide he's not leftist enough for their goals?

AKA, would AMLO push back on censorship of his political opponents?
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on March 17, 2021, 01:50:24 AM
Yes, he did say that, one of the things I have to applaud of him even if his politics/ideas are in general anathema to a freedom loving individual. (or to anyone with two brain celss to rub together and form a synapse)

What is the law in Mexico regarding freedom of speech / expression?

Do you believe AMLO really is going to push against social media censorship? Or only if Twatter and Farcebook decide he's not leftist enough for their goals?

AKA, would AMLO push back on censorship of his political opponents?

As far as I know nearly absolute, we can even call the president a cocksucking moron on social media and mock him on live national tv. So far no "hate speech" laws, but they are pushing to get them on the books.

AMLO is going to push against those he deems are against his interests, I don't believe he defended Trump for some deep seated freedon loving principle.

He has, how commited is he to it? Beats me, probably as commited as his pocket tells him to be. Meaning as long as he perceives social media as a danger to him/his party he will push against them.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on March 17, 2021, 01:09:12 PM
Our beloved comrade leader El Presidente just said all the proffits form the Santa Lucia Airport and the Maya Train will go to the Army...

Socializing the costs and looses while privatizing the benefits for the Army so he has them in his pocket...

Now I'm really scared.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: wlake.gmtn on March 27, 2021, 07:06:15 AM
Lula, Pinochet, Allende and Vargas are sitting at a table. They're smoking weed like Burroughs and want America to be their own. Trips to sugarville are made with a modern-refrigerated ration.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Mistwell on March 29, 2021, 01:52:49 PM
Our beloved comrade leader El Presidente just said all the proffits form the Santa Lucia Airport and the Maya Train will go to the Army...

Socializing the costs and looses while privatizing the benefits for the Army so he has them in his pocket...

Now I'm really scared.

Hey, how is the RPG gaming in Mexico where you live?
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Ratman_tf on March 29, 2021, 03:25:33 PM
Part of it has to do with resistance to tyranny, yes. People like to trot out the tired 'your AR-15 won't stop a tank or a nuke', completely forgetting how insurgencies work.

Also, if you've gotten to the point where the government is rolling tanks on you, or launching tactical nukes at you (Imagine nuking Portland to put down Antifa. It's a crazy idea.) you're way past the point of polite disagreement with your government anyway.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Shasarak on March 29, 2021, 03:34:13 PM
Part of it has to do with resistance to tyranny, yes. People like to trot out the tired 'your AR-15 won't stop a tank or a nuke', completely forgetting how insurgencies work.

Also, if you've gotten to the point where the government is rolling tanks on you, or launching tactical nukes at you (Imagine nuking Portland to put down Antifa. It's a crazy idea.) you're way past the point of polite disagreement with your government anyway.

At least the nuking of Portland was mostly peaceful.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on March 30, 2021, 10:21:30 PM
Our beloved comrade leader El Presidente just said all the proffits form the Santa Lucia Airport and the Maya Train will go to the Army...

Socializing the costs and looses while privatizing the benefits for the Army so he has them in his pocket...

Now I'm really scared.

Hey, how is the RPG gaming in Mexico where you live?

Way smaller than in any similar sized city that I know off.

For instance I know of only 3 gaming stores in the whole of México City (can't really speak for the rest of the country, but when I was on FB I made an RPG group, I got about 30 ppl)

And México City has 21,782,000 ppl in all of it's metropolitan area (that invades at least two states) 1,485 km²

Compare that with NYC
784 km2 8,336,817 ppl And has enough RPG stores to warrant a Top 10 best list...
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on March 30, 2021, 10:22:44 PM
Part of it has to do with resistance to tyranny, yes. People like to trot out the tired 'your AR-15 won't stop a tank or a nuke', completely forgetting how insurgencies work.

Also, if you've gotten to the point where the government is rolling tanks on you, or launching tactical nukes at you (Imagine nuking Portland to put down Antifa. It's a crazy idea.) you're way past the point of polite disagreement with your government anyway.

At least the nuking of Portland was mostly peaceful.

Now that's funny.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Mistwell on April 01, 2021, 09:54:53 PM
Our beloved comrade leader El Presidente just said all the proffits form the Santa Lucia Airport and the Maya Train will go to the Army...

Socializing the costs and looses while privatizing the benefits for the Army so he has them in his pocket...

Now I'm really scared.

Hey, how is the RPG gaming in Mexico where you live?

Way smaller than in any similar sized city that I know off.

For instance I know of only 3 gaming stores in the whole of México City (can't really speak for the rest of the country, but when I was on FB I made an RPG group, I got about 30 ppl)

And México City has 21,782,000 ppl in all of it's metropolitan area (that invades at least two states) 1,485 km²

Compare that with NYC
784 km2 8,336,817 ppl And has enough RPG stores to warrant a Top 10 best list...

Is there a lack of material in Spanish? Or do players tend to play in English? Or just no tradition of this kind of gaming there? How about board gaming and CCGs?
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 02, 2021, 12:31:11 AM
Our beloved comrade leader El Presidente just said all the proffits form the Santa Lucia Airport and the Maya Train will go to the Army...

Socializing the costs and looses while privatizing the benefits for the Army so he has them in his pocket...

Now I'm really scared.

Hey, how is the RPG gaming in Mexico where you live?

Way smaller than in any similar sized city that I know off.

For instance I know of only 3 gaming stores in the whole of México City (can't really speak for the rest of the country, but when I was on FB I made an RPG group, I got about 30 ppl)

And México City has 21,782,000 ppl in all of it's metropolitan area (that invades at least two states) 1,485 km²

Compare that with NYC
784 km2 8,336,817 ppl And has enough RPG stores to warrant a Top 10 best list...

Is there a lack of material in Spanish? Or do players tend to play in English? Or just no tradition of this kind of gaming there? How about board gaming and CCGs?

Lack of material in spanish is only part of the problem, mexicans take pride in not speaking any other language. Since the hobby never penetrated the marked to begin with, then the satanic panic and the fucking price of everything at the moment, there's not a tradition and never was.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 14, 2021, 07:36:56 PM
Welp, the government of México City must be really anti-science since it's publishing a study that contradicts the WHO and gives the reason to Trump' Supporters.

https://twitter.com/latinus_us/status/1393269805663330307
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Wntrlnd on May 15, 2021, 04:49:10 AM
Welp, the government of México City must be really anti-science since it's publishing a study that contradicts the WHO and gives the reason to Trump' Supporters.

https://twitter.com/latinus_us/status/1393269805663330307

Looking at what the EMA, the european agency has to say, Ivermectin might be effective against the virus, but would need such high doses that it could have harmful side effects, so they discourage its use until further studies can show what side effects it has at higher doses.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Pat on May 15, 2021, 08:18:10 AM
Welp, the government of México City must be really anti-science since it's publishing a study that contradicts the WHO and gives the reason to Trump' Supporters.

https://twitter.com/latinus_us/status/1393269805663330307
Does it? While the WHO is saying ivermectin should only be used in clinical trials, here's a pre-print of a meta-analysis they're conducting on it, and it's quite positive on the effects of the drug:
https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-148845/v1
The cautions are mostly related to the quality of the studies, but that's been true about everything covid.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 16, 2021, 12:09:41 PM
Welp, the government of México City must be really anti-science since it's publishing a study that contradicts the WHO and gives the reason to Trump' Supporters.

https://twitter.com/latinus_us/status/1393269805663330307

Looking at what the EMA, the european agency has to say, Ivermectin might be effective against the virus, but would need such high doses that it could have harmful side effects, so they discourage its use until further studies can show what side effects it has at higher doses.

Unlike the untested vaccines we're all gonna have, and the anti-viral they were pushing.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 16, 2021, 12:12:42 PM
Welp, the government of México City must be really anti-science since it's publishing a study that contradicts the WHO and gives the reason to Trump' Supporters.

https://twitter.com/latinus_us/status/1393269805663330307
Does it? While the WHO is saying ivermectin should only be used in clinical trials, here's a pre-print of a meta-analysis they're conducting on it, and it's quite positive on the effects of the drug:
https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-148845/v1
The cautions are mostly related to the quality of the studies, but that's been true about everything covid.

So, if their meta-analysis is positive why are they still saying it shouldn't be used as a treatment?

I mean they are pushing for untested vaccine roll out world wide.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on February 01, 2022, 01:07:37 AM
While other countries embrace socialism weirdly enough México just reduced taxes for people/bussiness who make less than 35 million pesos/year.

https://www.publimetro.com.mx/noticias/2022/01/31/sat-que-es-y-como-te-afecta-nuevo-regimen-simplificado-de-confianza/
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on March 01, 2022, 10:10:19 PM
Warning, explicit violence.

The Cartel executed 17 in a wake, and then proceeded to clean the streets. Our El Presidente, despite video evidence claims there's no evidence of any deaths... FUCK this asshole and those who voted him in power.

https://twitter.com/UnaAguilaReal/status/1498573436838424581 (https://twitter.com/UnaAguilaReal/status/1498573436838424581)
Title: Mexico rebels against the politically correct Mexican soccer federation
Post by: GeekyBugle on March 24, 2022, 02:51:42 PM
LOL, for once my paisanos are united against the politically correct establishment. The soccer fans are going to the stadium to scream eeeeeeeeeeeeee "gamer word" (F4g*7) to make the FIFA ban the national selection due to several murders that took place during a soccer game recently and the federation did nothing.

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23MexicoSinMundial&src=trend_click&vertical=trends (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23MexicoSinMundial&src=trend_click&vertical=trends)
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 25, 2022, 08:10:07 AM
Sleepy Joe's about to welcome another wave of illegals from south of the border, too. At this rate, is there gonna be anyone LEFT in points south?
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on March 27, 2022, 01:41:51 PM
Sleepy Joe's about to welcome another wave of illegals from south of the border, too. At this rate, is there gonna be anyone LEFT in points south?

I think those are mostly from central/south America and Africa and shit.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 28, 2022, 09:22:41 AM
Sleepy Joe's about to welcome another wave of illegals from south of the border, too. At this rate, is there gonna be anyone LEFT in points south?

I think those are mostly from central/south America and Africa and shit.
Probably.

Let's Go Brandon.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: jeff37923 on April 02, 2022, 11:19:23 AM
...
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/277573571_1329038040933495_2377008587786205915_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=H3PH-o4uuPUAX8VKxby&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=00_AT-uvl08-Z902yublt1goXnXwEoHK9gPpPnsVi3O3yx1FA&oe=624C7773)
Title: Fiery but mostly peaceful protests by the Cartels
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 12, 2022, 01:12:34 AM
Fiery but mostly peaceful protests by the cartels.

This is Mexico, we have no 2nd Ammendment, only the criminals own firearms. (You can get a gun IF the government lets you buy it from them but can't carry and if you use it for self defense you go to jail)

https://twitter.com/lasillarota/status/1557673680548663296 (https://twitter.com/lasillarota/status/1557673680548663296)
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Spinachcat on August 13, 2022, 10:08:48 PM
Geeky, what the hell is REALLY happening in Mexico?

The U.S. Consulate General Tijuana is aware of reports of multiple vehicle fires, roadblocks, and heavy police activity in Tijuana, Mexicali, Rosarito, Ensenada, and Tecate. U.S. government employees have been instructed to shelter in place until further notice.
https://thelibertydaily.com/americans-told-to-shelter-in-place-as-tijuana-burns/ (https://thelibertydaily.com/americans-told-to-shelter-in-place-as-tijuana-burns/)

The article claims all this began in prisons?

The violence began on Thursday in a Ciudad Juarez prison when the Sinaloa Cartel, formerly led by infamous Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman, and Los Mexicles began feuding, leading to a riot that left two dead and 16 injured, according to the Times of San Diego. The violence then spread out of the prison and into the city streets of Juarez, where gang members killed an additional nine people, most of them civilians.

Here's more footage of actual attacks NSFW.
https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/mexican-cartel-hitmen-execute-four-outside-little-caesars-raw/ (https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/mexican-cartel-hitmen-execute-four-outside-little-caesars-raw/)
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 13, 2022, 11:48:10 PM
Geeky, what the hell is REALLY happening in Mexico?

The U.S. Consulate General Tijuana is aware of reports of multiple vehicle fires, roadblocks, and heavy police activity in Tijuana, Mexicali, Rosarito, Ensenada, and Tecate. U.S. government employees have been instructed to shelter in place until further notice.
https://thelibertydaily.com/americans-told-to-shelter-in-place-as-tijuana-burns/ (https://thelibertydaily.com/americans-told-to-shelter-in-place-as-tijuana-burns/)

The article claims all this began in prisons?

The violence began on Thursday in a Ciudad Juarez prison when the Sinaloa Cartel, formerly led by infamous Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman, and Los Mexicles began feuding, leading to a riot that left two dead and 16 injured, according to the Times of San Diego. The violence then spread out of the prison and into the city streets of Juarez, where gang members killed an additional nine people, most of them civilians.

Here's more footage of actual attacks NSFW.
https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/mexican-cartel-hitmen-execute-four-outside-little-caesars-raw/ (https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/mexican-cartel-hitmen-execute-four-outside-little-caesars-raw/)

That's pretty accurate from what I know.

Then again you can't really trust the media (and the Mexican press is no better than yours) so who knows if this is what it looks like.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: SHARK on August 14, 2022, 12:00:34 AM
Geeky, what the hell is REALLY happening in Mexico?

The U.S. Consulate General Tijuana is aware of reports of multiple vehicle fires, roadblocks, and heavy police activity in Tijuana, Mexicali, Rosarito, Ensenada, and Tecate. U.S. government employees have been instructed to shelter in place until further notice.
https://thelibertydaily.com/americans-told-to-shelter-in-place-as-tijuana-burns/ (https://thelibertydaily.com/americans-told-to-shelter-in-place-as-tijuana-burns/)

The article claims all this began in prisons?

The violence began on Thursday in a Ciudad Juarez prison when the Sinaloa Cartel, formerly led by infamous Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman, and Los Mexicles began feuding, leading to a riot that left two dead and 16 injured, according to the Times of San Diego. The violence then spread out of the prison and into the city streets of Juarez, where gang members killed an additional nine people, most of them civilians.

Here's more footage of actual attacks NSFW.
https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/mexican-cartel-hitmen-execute-four-outside-little-caesars-raw/ (https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/mexican-cartel-hitmen-execute-four-outside-little-caesars-raw/)

That's pretty accurate from what I know.

Then again you can't really trust the media (and the Mexican press is no better than yours) so who knows if this is what it looks like.

Greetings!

Very interesting, Hermano!

Spinachcat beat me to the punch! I was reading news articles exactly about what is going in in Tijuana and Juarez, and I thought, I need to ask GeekyBugle about this! ;D

I read where the Mexican government sent Army troops into Juarez!?

Keep us posted on whatever you can discover, GeekyBugle!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 14, 2022, 01:52:10 AM
Geeky, what the hell is REALLY happening in Mexico?

The U.S. Consulate General Tijuana is aware of reports of multiple vehicle fires, roadblocks, and heavy police activity in Tijuana, Mexicali, Rosarito, Ensenada, and Tecate. U.S. government employees have been instructed to shelter in place until further notice.
https://thelibertydaily.com/americans-told-to-shelter-in-place-as-tijuana-burns/ (https://thelibertydaily.com/americans-told-to-shelter-in-place-as-tijuana-burns/)

The article claims all this began in prisons?

The violence began on Thursday in a Ciudad Juarez prison when the Sinaloa Cartel, formerly led by infamous Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman, and Los Mexicles began feuding, leading to a riot that left two dead and 16 injured, according to the Times of San Diego. The violence then spread out of the prison and into the city streets of Juarez, where gang members killed an additional nine people, most of them civilians.

Here's more footage of actual attacks NSFW.
https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/mexican-cartel-hitmen-execute-four-outside-little-caesars-raw/ (https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/mexican-cartel-hitmen-execute-four-outside-little-caesars-raw/)

That's pretty accurate from what I know.

Then again you can't really trust the media (and the Mexican press is no better than yours) so who knows if this is what it looks like.

Greetings!

Very interesting, Hermano!

Spinachcat beat me to the punch! I was reading news articles exactly about what is going in in Tijuana and Juarez, and I thought, I need to ask GeekyBugle about this! ;D

I read where the Mexican government sent Army troops into Juarez!?

Keep us posted on whatever you can discover, GeekyBugle!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

The Army and the National Guard were sent to Baja California, probably someplace else too.

We can thank our beloved comrade leader El President for his policy of "Hughs not Bullets" (Literal translation of Abrazos no Balazos).

Imagine having the Commiefornia shitheads in charge of all your country and the states not being able to do their own thing. Well that's México in a nutshell.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: SHARK on August 14, 2022, 09:07:59 PM
Greetings!

Geesus. I just read a news article where El Presidente has done something or other to bypass Mexico's Congress, and place the Mexican National Guard under Army control and supervision.

As an American, anytime US National Guard units enter into joint operations with US Army forces, it is customary for such National Guard units to be placed under Army command. Just as an operational note.

In Mexico's particular circumstances, I hate to sound like a tyrant monster, but the domestic security situation warrants pulling off the gloves. Fuck the politics, laws, or wiggling fucking talking heads. The bloodshed, chaos, and terror throughout Mexico demands absolute, decisive action, NOW, and ongoing, to get the fucking job done. That's not to say that such measures and operation aren't a long time in coming--such a serious and bloodthirsty, iron determination should have been embraced *years ago*.

I feel so bad about the absolute mass injustice and corruption going on in Mexico. I have ultimately thought though, that somehow, eventually, it really is only a problem that will be solved by the Mexican people, especially in the lower levels of society, and at the local level--neighborhood by neighborhood, city by city--with enough people simply being absolutely committed to ending the fucking cartels. For reference, in American history, whenever the Federal government was too distant, too uncaring, or otherwise too preoccupied to handle local security matters--whether such were caused by rebels, outlaw gangs, or bands of savage Indians, it was often the local government and people that organized and fought, and took care of the problem. I'm guessing that such a course of action and rock-hard determination at being independent and getting the problem taken care of will be necessary for Mexico.

This bullshit chaos and mayhem has been going on down there in Mexico *for years now*. So frustrating and tragic.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 14, 2022, 11:32:59 PM
Greetings!

Geesus. I just read a news article where El Presidente has done something or other to bypass Mexico's Congress, and place the Mexican National Guard under Army control and supervision.

As an American, anytime US National Guard units enter into joint operations with US Army forces, it is customary for such National Guard units to be placed under Army command. Just as an operational note.

In Mexico's particular circumstances, I hate to sound like a tyrant monster, but the domestic security situation warrants pulling off the gloves. Fuck the politics, laws, or wiggling fucking talking heads. The bloodshed, chaos, and terror throughout Mexico demands absolute, decisive action, NOW, and ongoing, to get the fucking job done. That's not to say that such measures and operation aren't a long time in coming--such a serious and bloodthirsty, iron determination should have been embraced *years ago*.

I feel so bad about the absolute mass injustice and corruption going on in Mexico. I have ultimately thought though, that somehow, eventually, it really is only a problem that will be solved by the Mexican people, especially in the lower levels of society, and at the local level--neighborhood by neighborhood, city by city--with enough people simply being absolutely committed to ending the fucking cartels. For reference, in American history, whenever the Federal government was too distant, too uncaring, or otherwise too preoccupied to handle local security matters--whether such were caused by rebels, outlaw gangs, or bands of savage Indians, it was often the local government and people that organized and fought, and took care of the problem. I'm guessing that such a course of action and rock-hard determination at being independent and getting the problem taken care of will be necessary for Mexico.

This bullshit chaos and mayhem has been going on down there in Mexico *for years now*. So frustrating and tragic.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

There's almost zero firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens, and I fear most of them don't know how to use them.

Which is why I'm hopping Trump runs and wins, maybe then we can convince him of drone striking the Cartels in their lairs. Turn them to dust.

And if someone wants to fill the void rinse and repeat, until they get the message and stop dealing in drugs or trafficking people.

The funny things is the National Guard was supossed to be a type of police not part of the army because El Presidente was against militarizing law enforcement and wanted to take the Army/Navy out of the streets (and he did it, which is why now it's worst than it ever was).

Many of us think El Presidente is in the pocket of one Cartel or the other.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on September 15, 2022, 08:24:01 PM
LOL, latinx is trending on the twatter, for all the right reasons

https://twitter.com/search?q=Latinx&src=trend_click&vertical=trends (https://twitter.com/search?q=Latinx&src=trend_click&vertical=trends)
Title: September 19th 2022 Earthquake
Post by: GeekyBugle on September 19, 2022, 04:19:52 PM
As is tradition we had an earthquake, 7.4 Richter IIRC.
Title: Re: September 19th 2022 Earthquake
Post by: jhkim on September 19, 2022, 08:16:19 PM
As is tradition we had an earthquake, 7.4 Richter IIRC.

I hope you and yours are alright, GeekyBugle. If you have any suggestions for aid organizations, I'd be interested.
Title: Re: September 19th 2022 Earthquake
Post by: GeekyBugle on September 19, 2022, 09:05:34 PM
As is tradition we had an earthquake, 7.4 Richter IIRC.

I hope you and yours are alright, GeekyBugle. If you have any suggestions for aid organizations, I'd be interested.

We're fine thanks, as for aid orgs the best is Red Cross.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on October 03, 2022, 05:35:31 PM
Trump should have droned the cartels, fucking turn to glass their lairs.

This is revolting, now the cartels are hunting down and mutilating priests to go up in the internal power structure, to gain rank...

https://www.publimetro.com.mx/nacional/2022/10/03/sin-temor-a-dios-narco-mutila-a-sacerdotes-en-mexico/ (https://www.publimetro.com.mx/nacional/2022/10/03/sin-temor-a-dios-narco-mutila-a-sacerdotes-en-mexico/)
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 06, 2023, 04:23:25 PM
Our beloved comrade leader El Presidente and his Department of education just Latinxed us, also only 6 pages of math (with multiple errors), planets in the wrong orbits, "most boys have a penis, but some boys have a vagina...", and building a working maqueta "however you say it in english" of a penis... All for elementary school.

Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 07, 2023, 08:36:45 AM
I'm surprised at the attempt to push 'Latinx' in your neck of the woods, Geeky. Everything I've heard and seen is that actual Latam types absolutely loathe the term.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 07, 2023, 02:52:55 PM
I'm surprised at the attempt to push 'Latinx' in your neck of the woods, Geeky. Everything I've heard and seen is that actual Latam types absolutely loathe the term.

You have to remember we don't have a single rightwing party, they all are figthing to see who's more of a woke leftard.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: zer0th on August 08, 2023, 11:30:12 AM
Five to seven years ago, these things were coming over to Brazil from Gringoland. We got some respite, but last year the left got back in power, helped by the pandemic, Biden, and other things that could get one without a bank account, fined daily, and worse. Now, we have been waiting for the indoctrination to return in full speed. Probably by next year the schools will get new books for the children to learn these things.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 08, 2023, 02:04:48 PM
Five to seven years ago, these things were coming over to Brazil from Gringoland. We got some respite, but last year the left got back in power, helped by the pandemic, Biden, and other things that could get one without a bank account, fined daily, and worse. Now, we have been waiting for the indoctrination to return in full speed. Probably by next year the schools will get new books for the children to learn these things.

Cultural Imperialism from the Yankee far left imported and impossed by those who claim to be anti-imperialists...

It would be funny if it wasn't ruining our countries and cultures.
Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on September 08, 2023, 12:55:54 AM
Some maybe good news.

Eduardo Verastegui (the guy that helped rescue The Sound of Freedom from disney's vault?) just filled to become an independent candidate to the presidency (much good it will do without lawmakers on his side).

The "oposition" is crying that he is helping the marxist from Morena to win instead of their marxist candidate.

https://twitter.com/EVerastegui/status/1699935955296170168 (https://twitter.com/EVerastegui/status/1699935955296170168)

Title: Re: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
Post by: GeekyBugle on September 09, 2023, 12:17:44 AM
Cenk's Nephew travels to México with a lot of electronics (you can bring one of each: Laptop, Phone, Camera, etc)
Gets forced to pay the import tax
Proceeds to cry

https://twitter.com/hasanthehun/status/1699551381974098424 (https://twitter.com/hasanthehun/status/1699551381974098424)