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Author Topic: News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0  (Read 19008 times)

GeekyBugle

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News from México or the road to Venezuela 2.0
« Reply #60 on: July 02, 2019, 09:07:36 PM »
Quote from: Shasarak;1094414
Just imagine yourself back at 14 years old except that there are actual real life Nazis in control of your country, army and police that want to kill you, your family and essentially everyone that you know.  What are you going to do?  Remember no participation trophy, if you fail you die so whats your move?

So now it's no imaginary stuff anymore?

If your argument is that this can be excused due to the circumstances I would agree, except the asshole feels no remorse, no guilt.

Not to forget there were many Jews even younger who didn't do what he did.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

Shasarak

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« Reply #61 on: July 03, 2019, 12:05:14 AM »
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1094417
So now it's no imaginary stuff anymore?

If your argument is that this can be excused due to the circumstances I would agree, except the asshole feels no remorse, no guilt.

Not to forget there were many Jews even younger who didn't do what he did.

Why would he feel remorse?  He did not do anything wrong.  

He may or may not have helped his "father" to take stuff out of a house whose owners had been arrested by the government.  Personally I would be suspicious of someone crying a river over that scenario especially someone who survived Nazi Germany.
Who da Drow?  U da drow! - hedgehobbit

There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

GeekyBugle

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« Reply #62 on: July 03, 2019, 02:29:34 AM »
Quote from: Shasarak;1094430
Why would he feel remorse?  He did not do anything wrong.  

He may or may not have helped his "father" to take stuff out of a house whose owners had been arrested by the government.  Personally I would be suspicious of someone crying a river over that scenario especially someone who survived Nazi Germany.

Your definition of wrong seems to me a bit wonky. But hey I'm against collaborating with genocidal regimes. And there's no "may" he did, admitted so himself on video.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

Spinachcat

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« Reply #63 on: July 03, 2019, 03:48:01 AM »
I find Soros' lack of remorse in line with the wretched asshole he became as an adult.

However, I can't judge him for his actions as a 14 year old doing whatever it took to survive.

But I have no problem judging Soros solely on his adult actions.

EOTB

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« Reply #64 on: July 03, 2019, 05:31:58 AM »
Quote from: Spinachcat;1094439
But I have no problem judging Soros solely on his adult actions.

This.
A framework for generating local politics

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Shasarak

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« Reply #65 on: July 03, 2019, 05:20:28 PM »
Quote from: Spinachcat;1094439
I find Soros' lack of remorse in line with the wretched asshole he became as an adult.

However, I can't judge him for his actions as a 14 year old doing whatever it took to survive.

But I have no problem judging Soros solely on his adult actions.


Exactly.  Hate the guy for what he did not what your derangement syndrome imagined that he did.
Who da Drow?  U da drow! - hedgehobbit

There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

KingCheops

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« Reply #66 on: July 03, 2019, 08:34:59 PM »
So it would be a-okay for a homeless 14 year old to come to your houses tomorrow and take all your stuff.  Please post your addresses so I can pass it along.

Opaopajr

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« Reply #67 on: July 05, 2019, 11:34:20 AM »
Quote from: KingCheops;1094540
So it would be a-okay for a homeless 14 year old to come to your houses tomorrow and take all your stuff.  Please post your addresses so I can pass it along.


There is a difference between condoning and excusing. :) This is especially so with factors such as duress and teenage judgment. There is a reason why globally crime and punishment usually had (has) a demarcation point between the child and the adult, between normalcy and in extremis. Further, excusing does not preclude all punishment, it often merely mitigates degree.

I know nuance on the internet is not a popular thing, but I'd like to think we can do it here every now and again. :) Be good to each other, everybody!
Just make your fuckin' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what's interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it's more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
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GeekyBugle

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« Reply #68 on: July 05, 2019, 02:56:37 PM »
Quote from: Opaopajr;1094661
There is a difference between condoning and excusing. :) This is especially so with factors such as duress and teenage judgment. There is a reason why globally crime and punishment usually had (has) a demarcation point between the child and the adult, between normalcy and in extremis. Further, excusing does not preclude all punishment, it often merely mitigates degree.

I know nuance on the internet is not a popular thing, but I'd like to think we can do it here every now and again. :) Be good to each other, everybody!

Condoning, yes, I would gladly do so, but when he say this formed his character and then you hear again how he pays no mind to the real world suffering his actions against some currency cause (and I quote) "If I weren't doing it someone else would" you realize he's a shitty human being.

Never mind his funding of anti-science "studies", open-borders ONGs and at least one extreme left online publication. He's a piece of rancid, smelly and maggot infested shit.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

Opaopajr

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« Reply #69 on: July 05, 2019, 09:16:09 PM »
Strange, I would not condone what he did, but instead excuse it and expect better when age and improved circumstance permits. :)

He obviously did not change for the better when his context changed. And that's on him for being damaged and not seeking healing... Perhaps he is locked in denial?
« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 09:18:42 PM by Opaopajr »
Just make your fuckin' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what's interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it's more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

GeekyBugle

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« Reply #70 on: July 06, 2019, 10:17:14 AM »
Quote from: Opaopajr;1094712
Strange, I would not condone what he did, but instead excuse it and expect better when age and improved circumstance permits. :)

He obviously did not change for the better when his context changed. And that's on him for being damaged and not seeking healing... Perhaps he is locked in denial?

You might be right, remember English isn't my first language. He learned to care only about himself and fuck everybody else, and the same rationalization he uses to avoid any responsibility and guilt over his actions then is the one he uses to avoid any responsibility and guilt over his actions now.

He's a putrid and filled with maggots piece of stinking shit.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

Opaopajr

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« Reply #71 on: July 06, 2019, 09:06:38 PM »
I believe spite induced by being locked in denial to be a major factor of the current world acrimony. :) Seems like much of the entertainment and media world needed a good cry after 2016 USA elections.
Just make your fuckin' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what's interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it's more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

GeekyBugle

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« Reply #72 on: July 06, 2019, 09:32:43 PM »
Quote from: Opaopajr;1094768
I believe spite induced by being locked in denial to be a major factor of the current world acrimony. :) Seems like much of the entertainment and media world needed a good cry after 2016 USA elections.

And to get fucked with a sahuaro cactus
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

Opaopajr

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« Reply #73 on: July 07, 2019, 10:27:32 AM »
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1094770
And to get fucked with a sahuaro cactus

Now, now, now... :rolleyes: Is that the most loving and compassionate action to someone who is scared and in pain? :) There is cruel to be kind, and then there is just cruel. :D
Just make your fuckin' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what's interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it's more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

jhkim

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« Reply #74 on: July 08, 2019, 01:33:30 PM »
Quote from: jhkim
If you're going to take his word, then according to what he says, he was just a spectator. This is in 1944. He was 14 years old and maintaining a cover as a Christian bureaucrat's godson.

So as for the adult - the adult is a Hungarian bureaucrat named Baumbach, who helped save a Jewish child, while he still went about his assigned job to inventory confiscated Jewish property. I don't think it is reasonable in any sense to call Baumbach a Nazi. He was risking his life by pretending this Jewish child was his godson, and then helping him leave the country. That's like calling Oskar Schindler a Nazi and his helper's collaborators. Schindler was technically a Nazi party member and profited from Jewish labor, but he was saving Jewish people's lives while he did so. Schindler and Baumbach were working against the system from within.
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1094406
No, he was not an spectator, he was helping in the confiscation. And he's rationalizing that if not him someone else would have done it. And I'll show you exactly where.
Quote
Mr. SOROS: Well, of course I c-I could be on the other side or I could be the one from whom the thing is being taken away. But there was no sense that I shouldn't be there, because that was-well, actually, in a funny way, it's just like in markets-that if I weren't there-of course, I wasn't doing it, but somebody else would-would-would be taking it away anyhow. And it was the-whether I was there or not, I was only a spectator, the property was being taken away. So the-I had no role in taking away that property. So I had no sense of guilt.
You're trying to dig into exact wording into meaning that he was somehow doing actual work, despite his saying that he was a spectator. But particularly in a verbal interview, people won't have correct wording and will misstate and/or rephrase things. To ground this in reality, remember that at this time, he was a 14 year old, posing as a Christian bureaucrat's son. He wasn't doing any real adult work or betraying Jewish secrets.

I gave a specific parallel that you failed to comment on. Do you think that Jews who worked with Oskar Schindler were Nazi collaborators? They were helping a Nazi party member who was profiting from Jewish slave labor.

Personally, I would say that collaborating with Schindler did not make them collaborators, because Schindler was saving Jewish lives at the risk of his own. His profiting from Jewish labor was only a cover. He worked with the Nazis in order to maintain his cover, but that did not make him a true Nazi or the people who worked with him collaborators.

I think the same logic applies to Baumbach, just on a smaller scale. He was saving a Jewish child at risk of his own, and kept up his day job as a bureaucrat to cover for that. A Jew who helped Baumbach weren't Nazi sympathizers or collaborators - they were helping undermine the system.