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Author Topic: "Masculine" doesn't mean "acting like an animal"  (Read 3857 times)

Koltar

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"Masculine" doesn't mean "acting like an animal"
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2011, 02:34:20 AM »
Quote from: -E.;444118
Something I've been wondering about -- do people encounter radical, philosophical feminism in real life, like... ever?



YES unfortunately.

Also the trickle-down side effects of it in the way some individual women talk and act.

There is a woman on a local con committee that quite often makes minor snide 'feminist' comments ...then often whines about being lonely and wanting a guy to be with. (I'm not joking, she is often like a cliche and doesn't realize it)

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« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2011, 07:36:38 AM »
Quote from: Koltar;444169
YES unfortunately.

Also the trickle-down side effects of it in the way some individual women talk and act.

There is a woman on a local con committee that quite often makes minor snide 'feminist' comments ...then often whines about being lonely and wanting a guy to be with. (I'm not joking, she is often like a cliche and doesn't realize it)

- Ed C.


I can see that. As a form of general unpleasantness, making anti-whoever (men, in this case) remarks would count...

But that's not a source of "messages about" one's masculinity that I'd think anyone would find meaningful -- it's very much in the category of, "okay... this person has issues" rather than, "influence on society."

I'd guess the rad-fem folks /want/ to have influence on society and to be able to send messages to men that define masculinity the way the OP lays out... I'm just wondering where those messages show up outside of the Internet.

Cheers,
-E.
 

two_fishes

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« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2011, 11:13:03 AM »
Sounds a little like Dave Sim.

Spike

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« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2011, 09:28:01 AM »
You mean the Dave Sim who actually declared that the feminine principle of the universe was a great sucking black hole doing its best to destroy the masculine creative force of the Universe?
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two_fishes

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« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2011, 10:20:34 AM »
Yeah that Dave Sim. I see the same sort of hysteria about a feminist agenda out to destroy the male light of reason and civilization. Pundit's is not as over-stated than Sim's, but it's there.

StormBringer

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« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2011, 11:25:46 AM »
Quote from: two_fishes;444595
Yeah that Dave Sim. I see the same sort of hysteria about a feminist agenda out to destroy the male light of reason and civilization. Pundit's is not as over-stated than Sim's, but it's there.
Yep.

It comes up every once in a while around here.  With Pundit, civilization = iPod, and The West = The Best.  For a man who prides himself on his 'mastery of logic', one might think there would be a concomitant ability to see some of the details of those positions, rather than the often too broad current outcome through the lens of how much easier these things make their own life.
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jeff37923

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« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2011, 01:06:38 PM »
Quote from: -E.;444118
Something I've been wondering about -- do people encounter radical, philosophical feminism in real life, like... ever?

-E.


Yes. It was while I was in college in Seattle in 1995, I ran into several Andrea Dworkin spouting nutjobs. I don't think their antics really helped any efforts to bring about equal treatment for women. It just looked like an exercise for venting anger.

I made the mistake of opening a door for one of them and got yelled at for doing so. It was a case of politeness wasted.
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jgants

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« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2011, 04:36:12 PM »
This reminds me of a segment I just heard on NPR the other day where some feminist author was complaining about how the depiction of women on tv shows geared towards youths.  She really hated the original 90210 for showing airheaded women (I guess she missed the dumb as a box of rocks collection of male beefcake also featured on the show) and even thought tv shows like Buffy or Xena were still an issue because although the female protagonist was protrayed as strong and heroic, they were still attractive.

So basically, she wanted more shows with smart, ugly chicks being heroic, I guess.  I wonder if she watches that new Harry's Law show with Kathy Bates?  Or would she not be ugly enough?  The GF and I had a few laughs over the stupidity of the author's sort of feminism.
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Werekoala

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« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2011, 05:18:10 PM »
Modern feminisim was developed in order to give unattractive (physically and/or emotionally) women access to the mainstream of society.
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« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2011, 09:46:30 AM »
Quote from: jeff37923;444630
Yes. It was while I was in college in Seattle in 1995, I ran into several Andrea Dworkin spouting nutjobs. I don't think their antics really helped any efforts to bring about equal treatment for women. It just looked like an exercise for venting anger.

I made the mistake of opening a door for one of them and got yelled at for doing so. It was a case of politeness wasted.


A walking, breathing stereotype -- but I don't count college as "real life."

I think the Internet (to a great degree) and college (to a lesser, but still extant degree) tolerate and re-enforce extreme positions like radical feminism in a way most forums do not.

I'd think that once those people graduated, they'd find their environment less supportive of that kind of behavior and self-correct.

Cheers,
-E.
 

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"Masculine" doesn't mean "acting like an animal"
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2011, 11:18:15 AM »
Two things kept going through my mind as I read the Pundit's original post; questions actually, I suppose.
The first was, does he not realize that the two stereotypes he rails against are comic conventions, not serious presentations of masculinity?  The second was, what the hell do genitals have to do with holding dear such important principles?  He attempts to address the second question, briefly, by saying he wishes women weren't such useless parasites (I may be paraphrasing a bit ;) ) but, nonetheless, his view of women seems as distorted as the view he suggests modern society has of men.
I think it is important to recognize that sitcoms and romantic comedies are not the places to look for serious understanding of societal values.
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Venosha

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"Masculine" doesn't mean "acting like an animal"
« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2011, 11:53:54 AM »
Quote from: Werekoala;444705
Modern feminisim was developed in order to give unattractive (physically and/or emotionally) women access to the mainstream of society.


Same could be stated that RPG's were developed in order to give unattractive (physically and/or socially inept) men less access to the mainstreams of society.
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Werekoala

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"Masculine" doesn't mean "acting like an animal"
« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2011, 11:58:51 AM »
Quote from: Venosha;444841
Same could be stated that RPG's were developed in order to give unattractive (physically and/or socially inept) men less access to the mainstreams of society.


Except most people would view that as a good thing, as opposed to feminisim. :)

Please note, I'm mostly kidding here.
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« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2011, 02:11:17 PM »
Ignoring the actual polemics of Dworkin herself and her fellow travelers, most feminists do not agree with her theses.  BUT, there is nonetheless an atavistic joy many of them feel when hearing that sort of extreme rhetoric put forward forcefully simply because it is so extreme and in your face.  I think most of us have had this experience when someone with similar but more extreme views than our own roars out their convictions directly into the face of the opposition.  (Perhaps Pundit himself serves as such a catharsis . . .).
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"Masculine" doesn't mean "acting like an animal"
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2011, 03:17:40 PM »
Quote from: -E.;444118
Something I've been wondering about -- do people encounter radical, philosophical feminism in real life, like... ever?


Yes, and it bears no resemblance whatsoever to the pinata pseudo-intellectual man-children drag out and call "radical feminism" to justify their misogyny.
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