"MARVEL HAS PLANS TO INTRODUCE OPENLY LGBTQA+ CHARACTERS TO THE MCU" - Joblo.com

[VacuumJockey]

Can Disney use their Star Wars strategy for Marvel?

http://www.joblo.com/movie-news/marvel-has-plans-to-introduce-openly-lgbtqa-to-the-mcu-264-02

Considering the half-failure of Solo and the subsequent criticism of Kathleen Kennedy's leadership, this is a pretty bold move. And a pretty risky one too, IMO. Time will tell, I guess.

V.

[Spinachcat]

Bwah?....Deadpool 2 already happened.

The gay couple was even in the trailers.

[Frey]

The problem is the Chinese market.

Because of that, they do shitty stuff like saying a character is gay, but not referencing it in the movie.

[Kiero]

Don't they already have them?

[blackstone]

Can Disney use their Star Wars strategy for Marvel?

http://www.joblo.com/movie-news/marvel-has-plans-to-introduce-openly-lgbtqa-to-the-mcu-264-02

Considering the half-failure of Solo and the subsequent criticism of Kathleen Kennedy's leadership, this is a pretty bold move. And a pretty risky one too, IMO. Time will tell, I guess.

V.

As a father of a teen who sees herself as gay, I think this is a good move as long as they're NEW characters and NOT fuck with already established characters that are canon.
they tried that in the comics and it pissed a lot of people off.
Not because they were gay or whatever, but because they changed the already established background of a well-known character.

Also, it doesn't have to be sexual orientation they fucked with and failed.
-They changed Thor to being female and that blew up in their faces.
-They changed Capt. America's backstory to where he was a HYDRA sleeper agent THE WHOLE TIME. Really? This is CAPTAIN AMERICA.
No wonder sales are dwindling. It's the stupid shit like this that SJWs push for without thinking of the consequences.

But the MCU has been for the most part done an excellent job, but they need to be careful. Many countries where these movies are marketed still view homosexuality as taboo, specifically predominant Muslim ones. Don't be surprised if there is a gay character and it's shown in the film, it's filmed in a way to where is can be easily edited out to be marketed and shown in those countries.

[oggsmash]

Deadpool already did it.  I think pushing to have it happen is a whole lot of attempting to cater to a very small population of fans/potential fans.  Solo was not a half failure, it was a complete disaster financially.

  I do not think the problem is the chinese market.  The problem  is hardline fans who need a real reason, well developed character, or something other than pushing a forced checking of a box.  I have no issue with a gay character.  It would be statistically be tough to justify, but once you have people flying and punching holes in concrete, population statistics matter not so much, and telling a good story does.

[S'mon]

I have no issue with a gay character.  It would be statistically be tough to justify

A lesbian female soldier type would hardly be an anomaly. I always thought banning lesbians from the military was ridiculous; it would have made much more sense to ban straight women.

[oggsmash]

A lesbian female soldier type would hardly be an anomaly. I always thought banning lesbians from the military was ridiculous; it would have made much more sense to ban straight women.

 I was referring to the statistical fact that a person with superpowers is a rare anomaly.  The population of gay people is what, around 3 percent? so you have two statistical rarities that have to come together, since most superheros are not super powered by choice in as much by happen stance.  But sure lesbian softball players or soldiers are not rare at all, but that is a choice of activity or profession, superhero seems less chosen in most circumstances from lore.  But as I already said, once you have people flying, I do not need a statistical justification.  Just have a good story and try not to get SJW talking points as your main focus and it can work out.

[Ratman_tf]

The problem is the Chinese market.

Because of that, they do shitty stuff like saying a character is gay, but not referencing it in the movie.

he gay pls clap

[tenbones]

Well if they go this route - it'll be as successful as their comicbook attempts. They'll essentially flush their golden goose down the toilet.

It's not even the fact that they intend on inserting LGBT characters into the MCU that's the issue. It's how they execute doing it. The way they do all this shit in the comics is asinine and idiotic because they can't separate their political views from the stereotypes of how they portray their ideology.

So it's all mixed up into this slurry of shit that really say more about the creators in their portrayal of their ideas. Which arguably speaks volumes.

Case in point:

Thor is turned into a woman - But it was so poorly conceived because of the fact they *had* to shoe-horn Jane Foster into the role, under the pretense that Thor was now unworthy (which how they went about that was equally stupid) they never considered from a character-perspective of what *made* Jane Foster over everyone else in the Marvel Universe worthy enough of Mjolnir? Oh she had a vagina and cancer so let's pluck those heartstrings and wrap this whole concept around that. And *even then* - it could have worked, but she was so lacking in background other than just being "Thor's old girlfriend that's now dying" that they went ahead and made Mjolnir a character/pet in order to be her foil to build her up because ultimately she was a cardboard-cut out advertisement for "Hey Diversity!"

Captain America is a Nazi - Bad idea. Really bad idea. Nevermind the premise is based on using the Cosmic Cube to make everyone believe that this was true. Then double-down on it with some Alternate-reality hijinks. The premise is obviously designed from Nick Spencer's animus about his views on modern politics, on its face. The execution is so one-note and in bad taste, it shows 1) he doesn't understand Captain America 2) He willfully decides to not consider the ramifications of making Captain America in this manner an actual Hydra/Nazi agent 3) His ideology overrides any and all attempts at crafting a good story. It serves to only shit on Captain America as a symbol for the America that he believes is shitty. Imagine bringing Chris Evans portrayal of Cap - which has PROVEN to be far more dynamic and honest to the character (thanks Ed Brubaker!) to this position and expect it to make money? LOL good luck with that?

Iceman is REALLY Gay! - Nevermind 40+ years of Iceman being a bit of a player. Nope. We're going to have Jean Grey telepathically push Iceman into "realizing" the whole time he's really gay. Not just gay - but a caricature of the "fabulously gay" stereotype... because. Nevermind the horrifying implications of actual thought-control, gross manipulation, and the shitting on the very foundational principle of Professor X that trained Jean to never use her powers like this on moral grounds (at least in the mainline universe). Fuck all that. We're mind-fucking people. It's okay if you make them gay. Horribly written character. Horrible stupid stories.

She-Hulk - The Internet Bullyhunter - Nevermind that She-Hulk has dealt with a lot of heavy-duty villains, been on every Marvel team as a valued member for decades. Was an actual strong female character that was totally self-reliant (nevermind the literal fact she was strong). No... rather than use her as a shining example of what ought to be a strong female lead... they reduce her to hunting down bullies on the internet. I shit you not. Because nothing says being super-heroic than taking on the violence of words in Social Media.

Ironheart - Black female teen racist sociopath-millennial Ironman - She's a "hero" because she's black and steals technology to make herself a power-suit. She does some minor good deed with it - then Tony Stark proclaims her as his heir-apparent out of nowhere and walks into the big-leagues, because *she's awesome!* No other criteria needed! She's selfish, a little vindictive and said to be a super-genius but you don't really see anything genius about how she solves any problems other than blast it to shreds. Like most modern female Marvel characters, she cruises through most challenges without much problem and is completely un-self aware of who she is why she does what she does. Horribly horribly written character with zero development outside "she's a girl", "she's a poc" and "she's better than Tony Stark at everything Tony Stark does" so accept her!

Korean Hulk aka Man-baby Hulkywulky - Amadeus Cho has always been, to me, a caricature. The cool super-genius(! a trope beaten to death by writers that clearly are not smart in their own right - but use this trope as an internal MacGuffin to unpaint themselves out of corners - which they do because they themselves are stupid) asian dude that is smarter than you, dear reader. So he is so smart he figures out out to become the Hulk in appearance only. While they usher the real-Hulk off the stage, they give us this new more caring, more sensitive Hulk... the Totally Awesome Hulk. A hulk that is a super-genius but rather than thinks his way out of problems that normally would be solvable by a SUPER-GENIUS... he just punches his way out like a meathead, but... with sociopathic sensitivity (that means he cries when he shouldn't, gloats when there are bodies falling from the skies). They emasculate Cho, who was originally a guy that was always trying to hit on girls - borderline beta-creepy style, then they just stopped altogether once Greg Pak went full SJW. Now he's sociopathic, big baby-hulk. Inadvertantly dumb. Weak willed. Easily manipulated. And despite having gamma-irradiated cells - has zero testosterone despite trying to act like a Bro. If you wrote him as a female - he'd be no different than modern She-Hulk.

Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers) aka Militant Space Feminist - TOTALLY de-feminized. Asshole. Authoritarian. She used to be the sexy, military badass turned super-hero, now she's the very unfeminine, asshole that loves to threaten people with violence unless you do things her way. She's a pushy feminist asshole and almost always wrong. She's actually a villain - but the writers don't seem to realize it. She looks and acts like a lot of internet feminists. So power-projection of ideology is intact, including the inevitable failure of it. But they gloss it all over.

America Chavez - Jesus... where to even start? I'll quote D&C on this "If you hired a KKK member to come with the worst stereotype for a Venezuelan lesbian, he would be leagues behind the cast behind America Chavez." She literally fights the evil *white energy* with *brown energy*. Oh I honestly can't even do this. She's every bad SJW stereotype rolled into one, pumped via adamantium studded vibranium dildo full of gamma-irradiated steroids, shot out of a rail-gun into orbit to go full supernova. multiplied by ten orders of magnitude beyond Pi. She's actually so bad, she's hilarious to read... if it weren't supposed to be serious. Which then makes it scary.

Kate Bishop - Hawkeye with vagina - That's it. She's the new Hawkeye, a female that comes out of nowhere and is better than Hawkeye at what Hawkeye does, just because. + vagina. And she takes his name.

Storm - Female Malcolm X - Despite the fact she's African, and has been an X-man for decades, she's now suddenly a black activist that hates what white-people do to blacks in America. Yeah fuck all the mutant stuff.

I could go on... this is the tip of the iceberg. These characters would be villains in the normal context of Marvel. And I will laugh my ass off (but cry a little on the inside) if they try to bring this shitshow to the MCU.

Marvel used to sell 650k per issue on AVERAGE during Jim Shooter's era - where he maintained a really strong editorial hand on the content of Marvel's characters. His top books sold in the millions PER MONTH. The average Marvel comic today sells ~20k, most are below that and a few are above. There is a reason they're dying...

[Ratman_tf]

Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers) aka Militant Space Feminist - TOTALLY de-feminized. Asshole. Authoritarian. She used to be the sexy, military badass turned super-hero, now she's the very unfeminine, asshole that loves to threaten people with violence unless you do things her way. She's a pushy feminist asshole and almost always wrong. She's actually a villain - but the writers don't seem to realize it. She looks and acts like a lot of internet feminists. So power-projection of ideology is intact, including the inevitable failure of it. But they gloss it all over.

I have a pet theory that the feminist idea of a strong woman is the misunderstanding of masculinity, and the slotting of a woman into that perceived role.
IE if a woman was a man, she'd be a total dickhead because men are fundamentally dickheads.

[Brad]

1) he doesn't understand Captain America

I'm a hardcore Cap fanboy, and this is the biggest understatement of the century. Might as well just have Superman willingly join up with Darkseid to subjugate the human race...it's literally that level of retardation. Oh wait, that almost happened, but Superman's inherent personality overtook Darkseid's brainwashing. Not so for Cap! Fucking stuuuuuuuuupid.

Storm - Female Malcolm X - Despite the fact she's African, and has been an X-man for decades, she's now suddenly a black activist that hates what white-people do to blacks in America. Yeah fuck all the mutant stuff.

This crap actually undermines the past 40+ years of comics, with the mutants standing in the place of real-world minorities. Where before we read comics and used our brains to draw parallels between mutants and minorities, might as well just throw all that shit out the window and instead get clobbered over the head with non-subtle bullshit. I seriously wonder if the current writers have any idea to tell an actual story; seems like all they can do is just spout political rhetoric.

[tenbones]

I have a pet theory that the feminist idea of a strong woman is the misunderstanding of masculinity, and the slotting of a woman into that perceived role.
IE if a woman was a man, she'd be a total dickhead because men are fundamentally dickheads.

It's the projection of their inner-view. They *are* the very thing they claim they hate. Its that externalization that fuels their crazy revenge fantasies. This is also why as drinkers of Marxist Kool-aid (whether they realize it or not) - they view everything as a power-struggle. It's why super-heroes are power-fantasies for young boys.

But what these idiots don't realize, and what made Marvel and to an extent DC so popular with the genre is that adult, mostly male, writers injected a postulate of making them virtuous and exploring those mythical concepts within the context of that reality - that yes, Superman is that powerful, that's why he doesn't go around murdering bad guys, that is why he's objectively good.

There is a tension in that morality of power vs. justice. SJW's do not have a fucking clue about that - because they're so infantile in how they see "justice" they don't even see it's about revenge. They have no nuance.

I've said this before - you CAN do Social Justice as a real theme in comics. It's been done for DECADES and done with real moral consideration. I present to you the ultimate example: Magneto.

He's a super-minority within a minority (a Jewish mutant) - actually lived through Auschwitz and persecuted by the actual Nazis. He's been on the receiving end of a genocidal pogrom. Then he discovers his powers and is faced with the awful understanding of what drives men's fears. He creates his own brand of Identity Politics - he sees Mutants as a separate racial stock than homo sapiens - homo superior. And he falls to the lowest common denominator, that ultimately these two races will clash out of fear of one another. Initially he fights to bring down the system - and realizes the tide of numbers is against him (after getting his ass handed to him repeatedly). Then he goes after claiming his own land for his own kind (the S. African Apartheid analog Genosha) which he begins like SJW's do - to enact the very things he himself has raged against: persecuting the non-mutants, ultimately genocide. It's been pretty much rinse/repeat ever since.

The issue here is the whole notion of Social Justice as practiced is the path that ideologue villains use to justify their ideas. SJW writers don't seem to see this, much like SJ villains don't. They believe they're heroes for their tiny constituents. They commit and create the very things they say they're against.

And Magneto *is* an interesting character. He's just a villain. Not a hero.

[jeff37923]

Looking at the OP title, I don't think that it would be a problem to introduce LGBT characters into the MCU. The problem is that they are changing the established continuity of the characters into social justice parodies - that is what the customers do not like. I doubt that a significant segment of the MCU customer gives a shit if LGBT characters exist.

[S'mon]

Looking at the OP title, I don't think that it would be a problem to introduce LGBT characters into the MCU. The problem is that they are changing the established continuity of the characters into social justice parodies - that is what the customers do not like. I doubt that a significant segment of the MCU customer gives a shit if LGBT characters exist.

Personally I wouldn't give a shit if Black Widow turned bisexual, she has almost no personality currently AFAICS, and it would fit her screwed up abusive origin story. I guess they could make War Machine or Falcon gay too, if they've demonstrated anything different I must have missed it (I've missed a few films). And obviously Loki is canonically pansexual per Norse mythology. I don't think it would work with any of the major characters. They generally go out of their way to have major characters, who are all male, have a female romantic interest.