"MARVEL HAS PLANS TO INTRODUCE OPENLY LGBTQA+ CHARACTERS TO THE MCU" - Joblo.com

[Warboss Squee]

Why the fuck would the Wakandans use that as a slur, anyway?  They don't give the remotest hint of a fuck about other Africans or the rest of the world.

Cause they Wokandans!

[Ratman_tf]

I thought it was hilarious because it shows that no matter what Scott does, Hank has and always will see him as expendable.

Yeah. Scott's always got to prove himself to Hank. And if he's going to give his daughter a super-suit, by god she's going to get the good shit.

[KingCheops]

Actually, it was more racist than I thought.  It's teaching it's OK to call white folks 'colonizers'.  Which is wildly inaccurate.  The ones that came from Greece didn't.

Uh what?  Someone needs to re-read his Thucydides.  The Greeks were massive colonizers.  And that's before taking a certain Macedonian into account.  It wasn't until the even more agressive Romans and then the absolutely genocidal goatfuckers that the Greek colonies started to disappear.  I'd also point out that early Christianity -- an extremely colonizing force -- was largely Greek.

[Kiero]

Uh what?  Someone needs to re-read his Thucydides.  The Greeks were massive colonizers.  And that's before taking a certain Macedonian into account.  It wasn't until the even more agressive Romans and then the absolutely genocidal goatfuckers that the Greek colonies started to disappear.  I'd also point out that early Christianity -- an extremely colonizing force -- was largely Greek.

Quite. Greek and Phoenician colonisation was a major thing for several centuries of antiquity. Then as you say, Alexander and his Successors then planted Makedonian colonies all over Iran, Iraq, Syria, Egypt and Afghanistan.

[S'mon]

Cause they Wokandans!

OK, that was funny.

[Spinachcat]

Well I think the director had some respect for Killmonger's Black Nazi position

I didn't even see Killmonger as a Black Nazi. Imagine the unbelievable outrage of every other African country (and most other black people worldwide) if they learned that one country in Africa had been hiding the tools to ensure freedom for everyone. I don't think the response to a real Wakanda would be "oh, that's cool you guys stayed hidden while our continent and people have been plundered for centuries".

...and then there's the refugee situation. How many tens of millions would make their way to Wakanda? Then what? Wakanda blasts them? Vibranium doesn't turn dirt into food.

Cause they Wokandans!

You win the thread!

[Ras Algethi]

Quite. Greek and Phoenician colonisation was a major thing for several centuries of antiquity. Then as you say, Alexander and his Successors then planted Makedonian colonies all over Iran, Iraq, Syria, Egypt and Afghanistan.

Then you may as well claim that the Mongols and the Persians were colonizers.

[Ras Algethi]

I didn't even see Killmonger as a Black Nazi. Imagine the unbelievable outrage of every other African country (and most other black people worldwide) if they learned that one country in Africa had been hiding the tools to ensure freedom for everyone. I don't think the response to a real Wakanda would be "oh, that's cool you guys stayed hidden while our continent and people have been plundered for centuries".

...and then there's the refugee situation. How many tens of millions would make their way to Wakanda? Then what? Wakanda blasts them? Vibranium doesn't turn dirt into food.

If you don't see shades of Nazism in the idea of one group taking over the world and ruling it based on their racial (black identity) I don't know what to tell you. It's no different that a uber-South Africa taking over and making sure each country was run by white Europeans.

[Ratman_tf]

I didn't even see Killmonger as a Black Nazi. Imagine the unbelievable outrage of every other African country (and most other black people worldwide) if they learned that one country in Africa had been hiding the tools to ensure freedom for everyone. I don't think the response to a real Wakanda would be "oh, that's cool you guys stayed hidden while our continent and people have been plundered for centuries".

...and then there's the refugee situation. How many tens of millions would make their way to Wakanda? Then what? Wakanda blasts them? Vibranium doesn't turn dirt into food.

Holy shit, it would be hilarious to have Wakanda inundated with socialist activists "seizing the means of production", and toppling the monarchical power structure.

[Christopher Brady]

Quite. Greek and Phoenician colonisation was a major thing for several centuries of antiquity. Then as you say, Alexander and his Successors then planted Makedonian colonies all over Iran, Iraq, Syria, Egypt and Afghanistan.

Lemme correct myself then, in the concept of the term that is used nowadays, the constant historical rewrite about how Africans kept being 'kidnapped' for slavery to the Americas, or how ONLY White People from Europe came over and oppressed the North American Natives.  That 'meaning' of 'colonizer'.  The one that focuses on the current generation of white American.

Because otherwise, we could point out that EVERY single group of humans, nations or otherwise has colonized.

[HappyDaze]

That 'meaning' of 'colonizer'.  The one that focuses on the current generation of white American.

OK, so the one that applies the term to those that likely have never colonized anywhere at all.

I remember when words meant something, but I guess this is like the 5e Cavalier that has almost nothing to it (aside from one minor level 3 ability) associated with riding a damn horse.

[Kiero]

Then you may as well claim that the Mongols and the Persians were colonizers.

Uh, no, neither system involved transplanting large numbers of their people as settlers into foreign places. The Persians at least grafted on a new elite, but didn't have the manpower to supplant entire echelons of the native society. For those places at the fringes of their empire, a token submission of earth and water, along with paying tribute was all they required. They weren't trying to "convert" people, just administer them, creaming off a profit.

Not the same as the way the Greeks and Phoenicians planted entire communities of their people in strategic places (either commercial or military) with a view to controlling those places.

Lemme correct myself then, in the concept of the term that is used nowadays, the constant historical rewrite about how Africans kept being 'kidnapped' for slavery to the Americas, or how ONLY White People from Europe came over and oppressed the North American Natives.  That 'meaning' of 'colonizer'.  The one that focuses on the current generation of white American.

Because otherwise, we could point out that EVERY single group of humans, nations or otherwise has colonized.

Don't get me started on the bullshit revisionism that overlooks the Arab middle men and the complicity of African nations in the slave trade. Or that far more Africans were trafficked to the Ottoman Empire than ever made it to ships for the Americas.

[Alathon]

This crap actually undermines the past 40+ years of comics, with the mutants standing in the place of real-world minorities. Where before we read comics and used our brains to draw parallels between mutants and minorities, might as well just throw all that shit out the window and instead get clobbered over the head with non-subtle bullshit. I seriously wonder if the current writers have any idea to tell an actual story; seems like all they can do is just spout political rhetoric.

There is at least an opportunity here to recognize something about the media. If x-men comics have abandoned subtlety for blatant racial propaganda, it follows that what they used to be was subtle racial propaganda.  It's not a pleasant thing to consider when thinking about something I used to think of as simple entertainment; I have fond memories of the X-men cartoon in particular.  But, if this is what it always was, mutants vs normals as a stand-in for minorities vs whites, and the blatant propaganda is pointed in the same political direction as the subtle propaganda, it is a warning that those of us who partook should take stock of ourselves and consider how our understanding of these topics has been subtly shaped by medias that we chose to believe were mere entertainment.

[Ratman_tf]

There is at least an opportunity here to recognize something about the media. If x-men comics have abandoned subtlety for blatant racial propaganda, it follows that what they used to be was subtle racial propaganda.  It's not a pleasant thing to consider when thinking about something I used to think of as simple entertainment; I have fond memories of the X-men cartoon in particular.  But, if this is what it always was, mutants vs normals as a stand-in for minorities vs whites, and the blatant propaganda is pointed in the same political direction as the subtle propaganda, it is a warning that those of us who partook should take stock of ourselves and consider how our understanding of these topics has been subtly shaped by medias that we chose to believe were mere entertainment.

I think the difference is, like Let That Be Your Last Battlefield, X-Men was not exploring a specific agenda, but the topic itself. Most good stories have some kind of moral at the center.

But yes, the media does have some effect on us. It can have a very good effect, and a very bad effect.

[S'mon]

There is at least an opportunity here to recognize something about the media. If x-men comics have abandoned subtlety for blatant racial propaganda, it follows that what they used to be was subtle racial propaganda.  It's not a pleasant thing to consider when thinking about something I used to think of as simple entertainment; I have fond memories of the X-men cartoon in particular.  But, if this is what it always was, mutants vs normals as a stand-in for minorities vs whites, and the blatant propaganda is pointed in the same political direction as the subtle propaganda, it is a warning that those of us who partook should take stock of ourselves and consider how our understanding of these topics has been subtly shaped by medias that we chose to believe were mere entertainment.

Well yeah, one should be aware of this. But relatively subtle propaganda can often make good art. Unsubtle propaganda rarely does.