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Author Topic: Marvel Comics something something  (Read 38856 times)

Dumarest

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Marvel Comics something something
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2017, 04:23:47 PM »
Quote from: Voros;990938
Not defending, saying that it is pathetic to obsess on the politics of superhero comics.

I do think it is time for us 30-40 year old adults to take our Watchmen knock offs and fuck off and leave most super hero comics to the 12 year old kids we've stolen the entire medium from.

You're about 35 years too late. That happened when comics publishers abandoned the mass market and wide distribution of their products and instead went after the comic shop arrested development eternal adolescent mindset market instead. There's no going back, I think; kids, having not been exposed to comics and not being able to afford them anyway, have just about zero interest in comic books.

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Marvel Comics something something
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2017, 04:36:45 PM »
Quote from: Voros;990938
Not defending, saying that it is pathetic to obsess on the politics of superhero comics.

I do think it is time for us 30-40 year old adults to take our Watchmen knock offs and fuck off and leave most super hero comics to the 12 year old kids we've stolen the entire medium from.


No 12 year old is reading comics today. Even the millennials writing comics aren't comics readers.
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S'mon

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Marvel Comics something something
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2017, 05:21:57 PM »
Quote from: RPGPundit;990975
No 12 year old is reading comics today. Even the millennials writing comics aren't comics readers.

Well my son (10) does read them, but he's not buying them monthly, more he gets a few Marvel comics on vacation, plus his grandparents send him The Beano. He really wants the Marvel comics to be like the films, with action & fights & heroism & stuff.

Abraxus

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Marvel Comics something something
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2017, 05:57:17 PM »
Marvel found out the hard way that catering to the SJws may make them happy. They are also not buying comics. They are the ones who scream the loudest then once they get what they want. Leave. Marvel dug themselves into a hole and they deserve what they get. Finding out that fans DON"T like being preached too. Nor do they want politics in their entertainment. They tried to force it down readers throats and they left en masse. It's also not helped that a price per issue is fairly expensive. Or letting getting writers get away with putting this shit on covers https://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjFkqOkjJnWAhWHzIMKHX_iDS8QjRwIBw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.inverse.com%2Farticle%2F22781-mockingbird-feminist-author-marvel-harassment-riri-williams-female-iron-man-woman-superheroes&psig=AFQjCNFE3_eWx9f6JVNEwV2-atcD75t2Ag&ust=1505080595400473

Dumarest

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Marvel Comics something something
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2017, 06:55:41 PM »
There have been politics in Marvel Comics since the get-go, if you count punching Hitler. Or, for more than just fighting Nazis, since the mid-60s at least; the difference is they used to have a story and entertainment as the focus rather than a lecture. And sometimes they were subtle, like introducing the Black Panther as an erudite scientific genius ruler of an advanced African kingdom and nobody's sidekick or fool, yet at no time making any reference to it or what they were doing.

Voros
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Marvel Comics something something
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2017, 08:26:21 PM »
Quote from: Dumarest;990969
You're about 35 years too late. That happened when comics publishers abandoned the mass market and wide distribution of their products and instead went after the comic shop arrested development eternal adolescent mindset market instead. There's no going back, I think; kids, having not been exposed to comics and not being able to afford them anyway, have just about zero interest in comic books.

Kids use to have zero interest in scooters and those came back in a huge way. Yoyos had a revival. Harry Potter and Hunger Games made reading semi-cool.

I don't think it is hopeless, first thing would be to write comic books for kids.

I know from my nephews and nieces that Bone and Amulet are huge with pre-teens. Considering how obsessed many kids are with Marvel Superheores due to the movies I think converting them to comics is far from  lost cause, just write something for them!

You're right about the loss of distro to the cornerstores and drugstores where so many of us picked up our first comic but bookstores already have big comic book 'graphic novel' sections.

Voros
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Marvel Comics something something
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2017, 08:28:24 PM »
Quote from: sureshot;991000
Marvel found out the hard way that catering to the SJws may make them happy. They are also not buying comics. They are the ones who scream the loudest then once they get what they want. Leave. Marvel dug themselves into a hole and they deserve what they get. Finding out that fans DON"T like being preached too. Nor do they want politics in their entertainment. They tried to force it down readers throats and they left en masse. It's also not helped that a price per issue is fairly expensive. Or letting getting writers get away with putting this shit on covers https://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjFkqOkjJnWAhWHzIMKHX_iDS8QjRwIBw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.inverse.com%2Farticle%2F22781-mockingbird-feminist-author-marvel-harassment-riri-williams-female-iron-man-woman-superheroes&psig=AFQjCNFE3_eWx9f6JVNEwV2-atcD75t2Ag&ust=1505080595400473

The silver lining is maybe these grown men leaving will let superhero comics be fun and for kids again instead of wife-beating and macho bullshit.

Voros
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Marvel Comics something something
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2017, 08:30:47 PM »
Quote from: Dumarest;991016
There have been politics in Marvel Comics since the get-go, if you count punching Hitler. Or, for more than just fighting Nazis, since the mid-60s at least; the difference is they used to have a story and entertainment as the focus rather than a lecture. And sometimes they were subtle, like introducing the Black Panther as an erudite scientific genius ruler of an advanced African kingdom and nobody's sidekick or fool, yet at no time making any reference to it or what they were doing.

As has been discused before the X-Men comics were political from the get-go. Particularly the second incarnation of the team. These days those comics would have been attacked for 'forcing diversity down our throats' and 'virtue signalling.'

Warboss Squee

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Marvel Comics something something
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2017, 08:40:40 PM »
Quote from: Voros;991057
The silver lining is maybe these grown men leaving will let superhero comics be fun and for kids again instead of wife-beating and macho bullshit.

Those grown men are the reason that comics lasted as long as they did. We were the target audience in the 80s, and continued to buy them as we grew older. But thanks to the very blatent and stupid political slant comics are getting these days, the industry is hurting, because they're driving off old loyal customers, and while the loud and obnoxious crowd might praise the more 'progressive' direction, they're not BUYING THE FUCKING THINGS! So sales continue to circle the bowl.

And if you mean Hank Pym in you jab about wife beating and macho bullshit? Go read some goddamn comics. Because you have zero clues about what you are talking about.

Armchair Gamer

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Marvel Comics something something
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2017, 08:49:51 PM »
Quote from: Voros;991058
As has been discused before the X-Men comics were political from the get-go. Particularly the second incarnation of the team. These days those comics would have been attacked for 'forcing diversity down our throats' and 'virtue signalling.'

It may be of historical interest that the X-Men were a pretty low-tier title until Claremont and Byrne came along (the 'second incarnation,' I believe).
« Last Edit: September 09, 2017, 08:53:02 PM by Armchair Gamer »

Voros
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Marvel Comics something something
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2017, 08:53:22 PM »
Quote from: Warboss Squee;991060
Those grown men are the reason that comics lasted as long as they did. We were the target audience in the 80s, and continued to buy them as we grew older. But thanks to the very blatent and stupid political slant comics are getting these days, the industry is hurting, because they're driving off old loyal customers, and while the loud and obnoxious crowd might praise the more 'progressive' direction, they're not BUYING THE FUCKING THINGS! So sales continue to circle the bowl.

And if you mean Hank Pym in you jab about wife beating and macho bullshit? Go read some goddamn comics. Because you have zero clues about what you are talking about.

I do read comics but most superhero comics these days are trash for manchildren. The Pym wifebeating storyline was a pathetic stab at Watchmen-like 'darkness' and 'adult content' that has been killing comics having any new audience by pandering to a vocal minority of Otaku-like twats.

It would have been better for superhero comics to die off in the 80s anyway, since then it has been a few bright spots here and there, mostly from writers like Morrison, Brubaker, Bendis and Fraction surrounded by shittily slick drawing and yes, loads and loads of Image-era macho bullshit. Honestly don't understand how all that Wolverine-tough-guy nonsense hasn't burned itself out after all these years.

Voros
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Marvel Comics something something
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2017, 09:01:34 PM »
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;991063
It may be of historical interest that the X-Men were a pretty low-tier title until Claremont and Byrne came along (the 'second incarnation,' I believe).

Yeah funny that. I don't buy that the outrage these days is about substandard writing, the writing in mainstream superhero comics (with some exceptions like the ones I mentioned above) has been largerly terrible for decades.

It seems more that the issue isn't the shitty writing and grotequely slick artwork the 'base' has been consuming without much complaint for years it is more that the politics are not to their taste.

I'm not saying the politics aren't being shoehorned in clumsily, but then they almost always have been in comics, but the sudden concern with the poor craftsmanship seems particularly disengenous.

Abraxus

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Marvel Comics something something
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2017, 11:58:05 PM »
Quote from: Voros;991057
The silver lining is maybe these grown men leaving will let superhero comics be fun and for kids again instead of wife-beating and macho bullshit.


I don't know when the last time you bought comics yet for many kids most comics are something they can't usually afford. The days of 20$ buying you a good deal of comics is gone. One issue goes for 4-5$ unless I'm mistaken. Now the demographic that Marvel is dead set on alienating the parents of those kids are the ones with the disposable income. Or those that were kids and grew up and who can now afford to buy them. If you think that alienating the people with the money to buy a product is a good thing your either deluding yourself or worse purposefully being naive. If you truly believe that though I have two deeds for bridges I want to sell you. As well as a timeshare in the Florida swamp lands in a area that is guaranteed to go up in value any day now. Even then Marvel has always been political. Except they used to be more subtle and clever and how they presented it. Now they think that preaching to the fanbase and being as subtle as a brick to the head is going to make people want to listen to their political stuff in their comics. I'm all for social activism just don't be annoying or heavy handed with it.

For fucks sake get over the Hank slapping Janet in the comic scene already. It was a truly stupid thing Marvel did but enough already with obsessing about it years if not decades later. If you can't let it go I recommend booking a appointment with the nearest mental healthcare professional. Beyond that and with the negative reaction they received when they did Marvel it they don't do that anymore imo. If they do very rarely. As for macho bullshit yeah some characters are and it does not bother me at all. I read superhero comics to get away from the boring and mundane. Not to see the characters drawn or act as the average person.

Mordred Pendragon

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Marvel Comics something something
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2017, 12:56:10 AM »
In all honesty, Marvel was never good to begin with. Neither was DC. But then again. I prefer anime and manga to capeshit.

Granted, Marvel's love affair with identity politics has increased Marvel's awfulness exponentially. It's like putting strain on a structure that wasn't up to code in the first place. The only thing worse than capeshit is capeshit with an SJW agenda.

If you want quality stories and heroes, look elsewhere. You won't find it at Marvel or DC. DC has been hijacked by dudebros and Zack Snyder, while Marvel has been hijacked by SJW hipsters and the cinematic cancer that is the MCU.

TL;DR-Anime rules, Marvel and DC suck.
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jhkim

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Marvel Comics something something
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2017, 02:52:59 AM »
Quote from: VacuumJockey;990643
"Ta-Nehisi Coates Cribs From Gary Gygax For His Latest Essay Saying The Same Thing As All His Other Essays
--Ace


When Ta-Nehisi Coates isn't writing racist diatribes against White Devils for The Atlantic, he's writing racist diatribes against White Devils for Marvel Comics. They gave him a gig writing Black Panther and another book, Black Panther and the Crew, based on his long experience of and passion for Not Being White."

I thought you'd find this amusing: http://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=371494
I've generally liked Black Panther - particularly the run by Christopher Priest (Black Pather Vol 3). It's one of the few mainstream superhero comics that I've been into. I've read some of the Ta-Nehisi Coates run of Black Panther, but not the Black Panther & Crew series. The Black Panther series have always been political, as far as I've seen - from his introduction in 1966 to the "Panther vs. the Klan" miniseries in 1970, and on forward. Thus far, I haven't really liked the Coates run - it's kind of clunky, but not especially worse than most Marvel Comics - at least as far as my tastes go. Still, outrage at the politics of the Black Panther is nothing new - it's always been controversial.

VacuumJockey or others - are there other Black Panther fans here?  It seems to me that people are suddenly digging into the comic for something to be outraged about, without any interest in the comic itself.

Quote from: Dumarest;991016
There have been politics in Marvel Comics since the get-go, if you count punching Hitler. Or, for more than just fighting Nazis, since the mid-60s at least; the difference is they used to have a story and entertainment as the focus rather than a lecture. And sometimes they were subtle, like introducing the Black Panther as an erudite scientific genius ruler of an advanced African kingdom and nobody's sidekick or fool, yet at no time making any reference to it or what they were doing.
I would hardly call the Black Panther's 1966 introduction subtle - particularly when you include how American Indian Wyatt Wingfoot saves the FF, or how the villain is Belgian Ulysses Klaw. For the comics and politics of the time, it was incredibly blatant. And the controversy continued with the "Panther vs the Klan" mini-series in 1970. As I mentioned, my favorite is the run by Christopher Priest starting in the 1990s, which was also quite blatantly political.