LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021

[Reckall]

emphasis mine...

And now we are seeing the end of a war started in 2001 with two aims: capture/kill Bin-laden and free Afghanistan from the Taliban's dictature. Twenty years later, Bin-laden wasn't even in Afghanistan and the Talibans are doing just fine.

ROFL!!!
If you bought that BS, it isn't any wonder you are following the narrative about Covid and economics...

Hey, I don't get to write US' propaganda!  But they should at least try not to fiasco even in that.

[Eirikrautha]

emphasis mine...

And now we are seeing the end of a war started in 2001 with two aims: capture/kill Bin-laden and free Afghanistan from the Taliban's dictature. Twenty years later, Bin-laden wasn't even in Afghanistan and the Talibans are doing just fine.

ROFL!!!
If you bought that BS, it isn't any wonder you are following the narrative about Covid and economics...

Hey, I don't get to write US' propaganda!  But they should at least try not to fiasco even in that.

Well, since you don't write it, you should try not believing it, too.

[Reckall]

emphasis mine...

And now we are seeing the end of a war started in 2001 with two aims: capture/kill Bin-laden and free Afghanistan from the Taliban's dictature. Twenty years later, Bin-laden wasn't even in Afghanistan and the Talibans are doing just fine.

ROFL!!!
If you bought that BS, it isn't any wonder you are following the narrative about Covid and economics...

Hey, I don't get to write US' propaganda!  But they should at least try not to fiasco even in that.

Well, since you don't write it, you should try not believing it, too.

That's beside the point. The Second Gulf of Tonkin incident, Bin-laden & Friends and "Ayeeee, Saddam is going to gas everybody in the next three hours!" If you launch a war with fake reasons at least try not to fuck-up those reasons. The US need bigger smokescreens.

[oggsmash]

emphasis mine...

And now we are seeing the end of a war started in 2001 with two aims: capture/kill Bin-laden and free Afghanistan from the Taliban's dictature. Twenty years later, Bin-laden wasn't even in Afghanistan and the Talibans are doing just fine.

ROFL!!!
If you bought that BS, it isn't any wonder you are following the narrative about Covid and economics...

Hey, I don't get to write US' propaganda!  But they should at least try not to fiasco even in that.

Well, since you don't write it, you should try not believing it, too.

That's beside the point. The Second Gulf of Tonkin incident, Bin-laden & Friends and "Ayeeee, Saddam is going to gas everybody in the next three hours!" If you launch a war with fake reasons at least try not to fuck-up those reasons. The US need bigger smokescreens.

  Not really.  They can just leave most any nation in ruins anytime they want.  I do wonder when the people who fund that raging beast are going to understand the military DOES NOT operate in their best interests or their defense at all.

[Reckall]

emphasis mine...

And now we are seeing the end of a war started in 2001 with two aims: capture/kill Bin-laden and free Afghanistan from the Taliban's dictature. Twenty years later, Bin-laden wasn't even in Afghanistan and the Talibans are doing just fine.

ROFL!!!
If you bought that BS, it isn't any wonder you are following the narrative about Covid and economics...

Hey, I don't get to write US' propaganda!  But they should at least try not to fiasco even in that.

Well, since you don't write it, you should try not believing it, too.

That's beside the point. The Second Gulf of Tonkin incident, Bin-laden & Friends and "Ayeeee, Saddam is going to gas everybody in the next three hours!" If you launch a war with fake reasons at least try not to fuck-up those reasons. The US need bigger smokescreens.

  Not really.  They can just leave most any nation in ruins anytime they want.

And? The Taliban will rebuild it in their shape and move on.

[oggsmash]

emphasis mine...

And now we are seeing the end of a war started in 2001 with two aims: capture/kill Bin-laden and free Afghanistan from the Taliban's dictature. Twenty years later, Bin-laden wasn't even in Afghanistan and the Talibans are doing just fine.

ROFL!!!
If you bought that BS, it isn't any wonder you are following the narrative about Covid and economics...

Hey, I don't get to write US' propaganda!  But they should at least try not to fiasco even in that.

Well, since you don't write it, you should try not believing it, too.

That's beside the point. The Second Gulf of Tonkin incident, Bin-laden & Friends and "Ayeeee, Saddam is going to gas everybody in the next three hours!" If you launch a war with fake reasons at least try not to fuck-up those reasons. The US need bigger smokescreens.

  Not really.  They can just leave most any nation in ruins anytime they want.

And? The Taliban will rebuild it in their shape and move on.

  The second part of what I wrote was relative, and makes the first part rhetorical.   You are simply saying what anyone who read what I wrote already knows.

[Ratman_tf]

I'm not fond of the US involvement in the middle east, but this doesn't look like a pull out of Afghanistan as much as it looks like a rout.

[Reckall]

emphasis mine...

And now we are seeing the end of a war started in 2001 with two aims: capture/kill Bin-laden and free Afghanistan from the Taliban's dictature. Twenty years later, Bin-laden wasn't even in Afghanistan and the Talibans are doing just fine.

ROFL!!!
If you bought that BS, it isn't any wonder you are following the narrative about Covid and economics...

Hey, I don't get to write US' propaganda!  But they should at least try not to fiasco even in that.

Well, since you don't write it, you should try not believing it, too.

That's beside the point. The Second Gulf of Tonkin incident, Bin-laden & Friends and "Ayeeee, Saddam is going to gas everybody in the next three hours!" If you launch a war with fake reasons at least try not to fuck-up those reasons. The US need bigger smokescreens.

  Not really.  They can just leave most any nation in ruins anytime they want.

And? The Taliban will rebuild it in their shape and move on.

  The second part of what I wrote was relative, and makes the first part rhetorical.   You are simply saying what anyone who read what I wrote already knows.

Do they? For sure that part of the American (and Western) society who will come out deeply wounded from two of the most unneeded wars in history, yes, already knows. I'm not talking about the dead only, but about lost generations of young people forever scarred in the psyche and in the body. About trillions of dollars and Euro wasted. About hundreds of thousands of civilians either directly killed or dead as a consequence of the wars, only to be labelled "collateral casualties". About the innocents tortured in Guantanamo and black sites - because "principles" are useful only when you can boast about them, not when you need them. About a 300,000 men Afghan Army, paid, trained and armed by the West that just folded. About an enemy announcing - as I write this - "You know? We think that, after 20 years of struggle, we can declare the birth of 'The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, and that's pretty neat, uh?" (China is already agreeing, BTW).

So, does part of the society "knows"? Yes.

Will we climb down from our high horse? Well, technically we were thrown down from our high horse years ago, so the correct question should be "Will we stop stop and think before jumping again on it?" My personal opinion: no.

Will this be a lesson for the "Rah rah!" crowd? Never in the life. I don't know if Bin-laden is in our Hell or his Heaven, but I'm sure that, right now, he his happy with himself. He pulled off the biggest terrorist attack of all time on a shoestring budget; as an added bonus he saw his enemy openly ditch all his vaunted "principles" and turn himself into an elephant who damaged everyone and everything, including himself, in lies and wild chases. True, he was found and killed - but that comes with his line of work and Bin-laden knew that. The price paid by the West, meanwhile, is mindblowing.

Nothing is ever all bad, of course. I seldom browse Twitter but I'm doing it right now. It is pretty refreshing to see people who, with their immense horror, are realising that you can't "cancel" the #Taliban! The tectonic shift that the mind of the Twitterati is experiencing is unprecedented. I'm not worried, toh: they will recover.

Afghanistan and Iraq were two "Delta Green" scenario played and lost by the West. And not against Cthulhu but an enemy whose main strengths were IEDs and caves in mountains. And not having Twitter.

[Shasarak]

Who knows, maybe the power vacuum will convince China to have a go at Afghanistan.

[Pat]

The former Canadian Ambassador to Afghanistan is saying this isn't a Taliban takeover, it's an invasion from Pakistan. They planned it, ordered it, and it's being going on for years. No idea if it's true.

(Jump to about 3:50 for the part about Pakistan)
https://www.npr.org/2021/08/15/1027952027/canadas-former-ambassador-to-afghanistan-on-efforts-protect-kabuls-vulnerable

[Reckall]

Who knows, maybe the power vacuum will convince China to have a go at Afghanistan.

It is already happening and it shouldn't be a surprise.

China doesn't need to "invade". All they need is some friendly contact: "Yo! Nice to see you back in the saddle! Need a hand during the reconstruction period?"

There were rumbles that China was first in line ready to recognise the Taliban regime as back as early August. I guess we will have an answer shortly.

[Zelen]

Will this be a lesson for the "Rah rah!" crowd? Never in the life.

As someone who was definitely pro-intervention in the wake of the 2001 aftermath, I think your understanding of the situation is shallow at best. Almost all people in favor of intervention in Afghanistan in 2001 are now against it.

In the past 20 years there's been a big disconnect between "the ruling class" and "the people." Overwhelmingly the people correctly see the ruling class [correctly] as corrupt & illegitimate. Afghanistan will further prove this, with 20 years, thousands of lives, and trillions of dollars spent to achieve absolutely nothing except enriching the military, corporations, and politicians.

[oggsmash]

emphasis mine...

And now we are seeing the end of a war started in 2001 with two aims: capture/kill Bin-laden and free Afghanistan from the Taliban's dictature. Twenty years later, Bin-laden wasn't even in Afghanistan and the Talibans are doing just fine.

ROFL!!!
If you bought that BS, it isn't any wonder you are following the narrative about Covid and economics...

Hey, I don't get to write US' propaganda!  But they should at least try not to fiasco even in that.

Well, since you don't write it, you should try not believing it, too.

That's beside the point. The Second Gulf of Tonkin incident, Bin-laden & Friends and "Ayeeee, Saddam is going to gas everybody in the next three hours!" If you launch a war with fake reasons at least try not to fuck-up those reasons. The US need bigger smokescreens.

  Not really.  They can just leave most any nation in ruins anytime they want.

And? The Taliban will rebuild it in their shape and move on.

  The second part of what I wrote was relative, and makes the first part rhetorical.   You are simply saying what anyone who read what I wrote already knows.

Do they? For sure that part of the American (and Western) society who will come out deeply wounded from two of the most unneeded wars in history, yes, already knows. I'm not talking about the dead only, but about lost generations of young people forever scarred in the psyche and in the body. About trillions of dollars and Euro wasted. About hundreds of thousands of civilians either directly killed or dead as a consequence of the wars, only to be labelled "collateral casualties". About the innocents tortured in Guantanamo and black sites - because "principles" are useful only when you can boast about them, not when you need them. About a 300,000 men Afghan Army, paid, trained and armed by the West that just folded. About an enemy announcing - as I write this - "You know? We think that, after 20 years of struggle, we can declare the birth of 'The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, and that's pretty neat, uh?" (China is already agreeing, BTW).

So, does part of the society "knows"? Yes.

Will we climb down from our high horse? Well, technically we were thrown down from our high horse years ago, so the correct question should be "Will we stop stop and think before jumping again on it?" My personal opinion: no.

Will this be a lesson for the "Rah rah!" crowd? Never in the life. I don't know if Bin-laden is in our Hell or his Heaven, but I'm sure that, right now, he his happy with himself. He pulled off the biggest terrorist attack of all time on a shoestring budget; as an added bonus he saw his enemy openly ditch all his vaunted "principles" and turn himself into an elephant who damaged everyone and everything, including himself, in lies and wild chases. True, he was found and killed - but that comes with his line of work and Bin-laden knew that. The price paid by the West, meanwhile, is mindblowing.

Nothing is ever all bad, of course. I seldom browse Twitter but I'm doing it right now. It is pretty refreshing to see people who, with their immense horror, are realising that you can't "cancel" the #Taliban! The tectonic shift that the mind of the Twitterati is experiencing is unprecedented. I'm not worried, toh: they will recover.

Afghanistan and Iraq were two "Delta Green" scenario played and lost by the West. And not against Cthulhu but an enemy whose main strengths were IEDs and caves in mountains. And not having Twitter.

  he is likely in hell, but in Islam, hell has parole, so either way he wont be there forever.  I am not so sure the USA sent him there however.  You are looking at the thing from the perspective of a win/lose in the classical sense.  I assure you, the sociopaths who ran that whole load of shit won, and won big.   They all got much richer and expanded their influence and the officers/"leaders" gained experience in what amounted to live sparring for them.  Sure the Western Civilization as a unit "lost", but the people who control the monster known as the US Military do not give two shits about "Western Civilization".   I get what you are saying, and I was saying everything you point out in 2001.  But it does not matter, the military industrial complex created the Taliban(and they created it a loooong time ago),  they created ISIS.  They left nations in ruins and millions of people died, but the people who matter, the real government of the USA wanted it to happen, so it happened.  That is is just how it is.  Short of massive civil war/split in the USA there are not going to be any changes down the road.  The USA loves to export "democracy and freedom"...from 30k feet up. 

[oggsmash]

  The other part of the whole thing that I find grimly amusing, is folks like Joe Biden rant on and on about how an "assault rifle" is useless for fighting a tyrannical government (the USA) as you need Nukes.   I think he should make sure to tell the dudes hiding in the hills of afghanistan with flip flops and 30 year old rifles that.

[HappyDaze]

  The other part of the whole thing that I find grimly amusing, is folks like Joe Biden rant on and on about how an "assault rifle" is useless for fighting a tyrannical government (the USA) as you need Nukes.   I think he should make sure to tell the dudes hiding in the hills of afghanistan with flip flops and 30 year old rifles that.

Do you really want to draw comparisons like that between gun-owning Americans and the Taliban?