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Author Topic: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021  (Read 117867 times)

jhkim

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #765 on: February 07, 2021, 01:28:41 PM »
To moonsweeper -- I came into the State Farm Arena claims on the basis of the narrated security video with its claims about surreptitious suitcases. As I now understand it, you aren't supporting those claims and haven't seen the video. But if you aren't supporting that, then I don't see the point in the bigger picture.

I've seen the video. The workers were on camera the whole time. If the Republican observers had been there, they would have seen exactly what the cameras saw. Actually, from their testimony, is sounds like the cameras had a better view than they did. That camera footage has been reviewed by election officials and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, and they found that nothing illegal was shown. The containers were not suitcases - they were the official ballot bins, and they were openly placed there earlier in the day, again confirmed by security camera footage.

If there was nothing illegal visibly being done, what would be the point of intentionally sending away the Republican observers?


...except the argument that they 'misread' the intention doesn't fly when combined with the fact that Waller informed ABC news that the counting at that location was stopped at 10:30...which means the 'supervisor' apparently did, in fact, issue instructions for everyone to go home and come back for later counting.

Even more so, since the witnesses were questioning Waller (who was present at the location in question during the order) about the number of ballots that were left to count...a question she specifically refused to answer...

...or are you just gonna fall back on the 'maybe ABC misinterpreted what they heard' defense...or maybe Waller 'misunderstood' what the orders were and she just made a misstatement to the media... ::)

How does Waller not answering about the number of ballots show anything here? You're implying that she secretly knew how many ballots were left to count -- but she intentionally refused to tell that to the observers. It seems to me more likely that she's just a PR person and she didn't have the exact count. To my mind, this further confirms that the observers were *not* lied to. They were *not* told that the counting was finished. And by their own testimony, they knew that there were workers still there on site, and they left only because of the overheard command by the one unnamed woman.

The ABC News tweet is not confirmation, since the observer's sworn testimony is that they were *not* told the counting was over by the PR person Waller or anyone else in the organization.

For comparison, this was the statement from Fulton County Elections Director Rick Barron:

Quote
I'll just address the timeline of that evening - the staff at State Farm that evening, they began letting certain people go, no announcement was ever made to leave, for anyone to leave. Certain staff that were on the cutting stations, that were on the flattening stations, that were extracting from the inner envelopes, those staff left as work completed. I found out sometime, I think a little after 10:30, that they were gonna cease operations and I told them not to do that... at about 11:15 they were fully scanning again, and once they were scanning Carter Jones, the State Election Board monitor, he told me 11:42 or 11:52 that he arrived. There were media in the room, external affairs representative there until approximately 11:15. The Secretary of States investigator arrived at 12:15, and they scanned until all the ballots they had available to scan were complete and then cleaned up the room.
Source: https://www.12newsnow.com/article/news/politics/elections/georgia-recount-results-live-blog-dec-3/85-a4209de7-4213-4fe8-96be-37d7a2aa7676

He wasn't on site, but he heard that they were "going to cease operations". That implies that someone in the organization did think that operations would cease. Given that, it seems possible that he was wrong - and that someone on site did make an announcement that he later contradicted.

In the bigger picture, no one disputes that multiple people did have the impression that counting was over. That is the fault of the election organizers, who should have properly communicated. The question is -- was that an intentional concerted lie by the organization to fool away the Republican observers -- or was it indeed a miscommunication, where individuals made mistakes and/or misunderstood?

And as I mentioned at the beginning, if it was a lie - what was the point, given that the workers were on camera the whole time, and that camera footage has been carefully reviewed.

The evidence here is the one overheard command in the affidavits and one tweet -- and I don't think those two pieces convey that there was a criminal conspiracy to lie.

moonsweeper

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #766 on: February 07, 2021, 02:17:38 PM »
From your article, bold emphasis mine

Quote
"I'll just address the timeline of that evening - the staff at State Farm that evening, they began letting certain people go, no announcement was ever made to leave, for anyone to leave.  Certain staff that were on the cutting stations, that were on the flattening stations, that were extracting from the inner envelopes, those staff left as work completed. I found out sometime, I think a little after10:30, that they were gonna cease operations and I told them not to do that... at about 11:15 they were fully scanning again, and once they were scanning Carter Jones, the State Election Board monitor, he told me 11:42 or 11:52 that he arrived. There were media in the room, external affairs representative there until approximately 11:15. The Secretary of States investigator arrived at 12:15, and they scanned until all the ballots they had available to scan were complete and then cleaned up the room.

Bolded directly contradicts the affidavit, which says that people were told to leave and come back at 8:30 AM...

about the ABC Tweet...so ABC lied when they said Waller told them counting ceased at 10:30 or else Waller lied to ABC about the announcement to stop and go home (since she was present at the location when the announcement was made she should know)...pick one


As to why someone might have lied...

1) Why were the observers not granted access to view the scanning machines...if the machines are counting the votes that is part of the process to which they are to be given access.

2) If they were still counting why did they send anyone away and have one of the remaining employees start sanitizing...according to the italicized portion above, their work was done...but wait...it wasn't done, because there were still more unopened ballots in the 'boxes' you seem so focused on.

3) Why did Waller refuse to answer the quantity question...per the affidavit, she was asked at least 3 times and she never said she 'did not know'.  She called someone to tell them she was being asked.  Then she finally claims that it 'was available on the website'...why not just have the supervisor inform them of the remaining count?...I wonder if who the phone call recipient was came up in the 'investigation'?

4) You keep bringing up the 'suitcases' that were actually real ballot containers...I never made any claim those weren't real ballot containers...so I'm not sure what you are refuting here.

5) As to the validity of the specific ballots in said containers...I might have some questions there, but I am just pointing out problems with the whole process...

6) Taken in total...My curiosity is raised by the fact that it would be much simpler to just grant observers the access they are supposed to have and simply start counting...why would you complicate the process unnecessarily, thereby causing more work for yourself?
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EOTB

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #767 on: February 07, 2021, 03:02:56 PM »
Gateway Pundit has released some interesting video of that night which resulted in their getting kicked off twitter.
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Ghostmaker

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #768 on: February 08, 2021, 12:00:20 PM »
Four years ago people went ballistic crazy over Donald Trump being president. They rioted and burned. But, lo and behold, all the charges were dropped: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/government-drops-charges-against-all-inauguration-protesters-n889531

Meanwhile, the 1/6 culprits get the book thrown at them: https://amgreatness.com/2021/02/04/americas-political-prisoners-first/

Two sets of rules, it seems. But some of you are okay with that.

shuddemell

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #769 on: February 08, 2021, 02:41:17 PM »
Four years ago people went ballistic crazy over Donald Trump being president. They rioted and burned. But, lo and behold, all the charges were dropped: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/government-drops-charges-against-all-inauguration-protesters-n889531

Meanwhile, the 1/6 culprits get the book thrown at them: https://amgreatness.com/2021/02/04/americas-political-prisoners-first/

Two sets of rules, it seems. But some of you are okay with that.

It's not like they are above rigging the game.
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Daztur

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #770 on: February 08, 2021, 05:17:18 PM »
Four years ago people went ballistic crazy over Donald Trump being president. They rioted and burned. But, lo and behold, all the charges were dropped: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/government-drops-charges-against-all-inauguration-protesters-n889531

Meanwhile, the 1/6 culprits get the book thrown at them: https://amgreatness.com/2021/02/04/americas-political-prisoners-first/

Two sets of rules, it seems. But some of you are okay with that.

Also, for some strange reason it is harder to convict people who cover their faces with masks while committing crimes compared to people who livestream themselves committing felonies.

Ghostmaker

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #771 on: February 09, 2021, 10:32:11 AM »
Oops.

https://justthenews.com/government/courts-law/mon-growing-evidence-capitol-attack-pre-planned-undercuts-trump-impeachment

You can't have it both ways. You can't insist Trump spontaneously triggered a riot if you've got two hundred fucking people preplanning shit on social media.

Of course, this won't stop the TDS-driven insanity.

(On a sidenote, that is the most hilariously bad opsec I've ever seen. Might as well have taken out billboards advertising 'hey, we're gonna storm the capitol'. Even the Area 51 'raid' had more brains than this.)

jhkim

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #772 on: February 09, 2021, 11:41:38 AM »
moonsweeper -

Regarding election procedure, I think we might be talking past each other to a degree.

Going around to the big picture -- In general, I think that elections in the U.S. are sloppily run, and have been for decades. I've been aware of it since the 2000 election. However, neither party has shown any mainstream interest in reforming election procedure, and even when they have had the opportunity, they have not passed election reform. There is the For the People Act that was proposed in 2019 by some Democrats, but it had no chance of passing. For decades, the only people I saw complaining about details of election procedure like electronic voting machines have been liberal activists -- usually complaining about how procedures make things unequal for poor people and/or urban minorities.

In the 2000 election, suddenly that reversed. Trump supporters suddenly looked at the details of voting -- and were shocked to find, for example, how Republican administrations had been installing voting machines for decades. Many people seemed to believe that ballots were secured like bank vaults -- with top-of-the-line security and airtight procedure. Instead, it's often a bunch of geriatric volunteers walking the ballots around and counting them up like something out of The Office. That's been true across the tens of thousands of local polling centers since forever - it's not a shocking new development in 2020.

In general, I approve of reforming election procedure. It'll cost a little more money, but we should have some more thorough checks on things and security, to ensure that everyone's vote counts. Some liberals have shown bias defending election procedure in the case of Trump while criticizing it in previous years -- but the same is definitely true in reverse, where conservatives who had no problem with election procedures in 2016 turned around and started complaining.

---------------

I think the elephant in the room, though, is the enormous number of bogus claims in the 2020 election. You question about why I have brought up multiple times the false claim about the suitcases in State Farm Arena. That's because it was broadcast on multiple mainstream news channels, shared hugely across social media, and promoted by the President's own lawyers. Tons of people were sucked in by that story - so I think it's important to address it.


Bolded directly contradicts the affidavit, which says that people were told to leave and come back at 8:30 AM...

about the ABC Tweet...so ABC lied when they said Waller told them counting ceased at 10:30 or else Waller lied to ABC about the announcement to stop and go home (since she was present at the location when the announcement was made she should know)...pick one

No, I don't have to. Your assumption here is that no one ever makes a mistake or miscommunicates - there's only intentional lying. But in actuality, miscommunication happens all the time. Twitter posts are frequently wrong - not because of criminal conspiracy to lie, but because people post what they think they hear without checking. Just look at any conversation here on this forum, and there's tons of people talking past each other.

Have you ever sat on a jury? In virtually any court case, people's stories about a given event never line up. They'll tell different accounts of the same events -- even witnesses on the same side of a court case.

In this case, the procedure should be that the hours of processing are clearly posted. The observers shouldn't have to infer when work is based on an overheard command as they did. But given that they did leave based on an overheard command, I think miscommunication is clearly possible.


Taken in total...My curiosity is raised by the fact that it would be much simpler to just grant observers the access they are supposed to have and simply start counting...why would you complicate the process unnecessarily, thereby causing more work for yourself?

You're talking about where they were positioned here? For a secret and secure vote tally, the observers need to be in a place where they can see what is going on in general, but not so close that they can read the votes or interfere with the process. I suspect most places prefer for them to be behind a window or such, rather than have security keep them inside a roped-off area. Exactly where they need to be isn't perfectly defined - it's a judgement call. And again, this is something done by people working for a small stipend with little training across tens of thousands of polling places each with their own setup -- trying to conform to hundreds of detailed election laws that vary from location to location. They're almost all well-intentioned and trying their best, but I'm sure that no one gets it all right.

Shasarak

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #773 on: February 09, 2021, 08:59:27 PM »
So it looks like the death of Officer Brian Sicknick had nothing to do with being hit on the head with a fire extinguisher during the mostly peaceful marching and selfie opportunity at the Capitol.

https://amgreatness.com/2021/02/08/what-happened-to-officer-brian-sicknick/

After all the hang wringing, it turns out that it was a big rawma.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2021, 09:48:30 PM by Shasarak »
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Pat
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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #774 on: February 09, 2021, 09:19:51 PM »
^ url is correct, but the link's broken. For some reason it picked up an ftp wrapper.

Shasarak

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #775 on: February 09, 2021, 09:48:57 PM »
^ url is correct, but the link's broken. For some reason it picked up an ftp wrapper.

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Pat
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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #776 on: February 10, 2021, 07:45:36 AM »
https://www.campusreform.org/article?id=16784

Didn't get any press, but about two weeks ago Biden rescinded one of Trump's executive orders that required universities to report any contracts they make with China's Confucius Institutes, like picking professors in exchange for donations. Given the number of professors who have been arrested for spying for China, especially around things like intellectual property, and how central the Confucius Institutes have been to the whole process, this sounds like a terrible idea.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/bidens-order-could-let-china-control-u-s-electric-grid
https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-seizure-of-chinese-built-transformer-raises-specter-of-closer-scrutiny-11590598710

Biden also suspended for 90 days a Trump executive order that prohibited electrical companies from using equipment controlled by foreign countries. Given it was just last year that they discovered a 250 ton transformer that had backdoors designed into it that might have allowed China to remotely control parts of the grid, that also sounds like a terrible idea

https://www.newsweek.com/china-warn-biden-flex-muscles-double-aircraft-carrier-1567963

Though Biden is still having the Navy engage in training exercises in the South China Sea, which is provoking China.

Entertainingly, the rear admiral in charge of one of the two carrier strike groups is James Kirk.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2021, 08:12:30 AM by Pat »

Ghostmaker

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #777 on: February 10, 2021, 08:13:48 AM »
https://www.campusreform.org/article?id=16784

Didn't get any press, but about two weeks ago Biden rescinded one of Trump's executive orders that required universities to report any contracts they make with China's Confucius Institutes, like picking professors in exchange for donations. Given the number of professors who have been arrested for spying for China, especially around things like intellectual property, and how central the Confucius Institutes have been to the whole process, this sounds like a terrible idea.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/bidens-order-could-let-china-control-u-s-electric-grid
https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-seizure-of-chinese-built-transformer-raises-specter-of-closer-scrutiny-11590598710

Biden also suspended for 90 days a Trump executive order that prohibited electrical companies from using equipment controlled by foreign countries. Given it was just last year that they discovered a 250 ton transformer that had backdoors designed into it that might have allowed China to remotely control parts of the grid, that also sounds like a terrible idea

https://www.newsweek.com/china-warn-biden-flex-muscles-double-aircraft-carrier-1567963

Though Biden is still having the Navy engage in training exercises in the South China Sea, which is provoking China.

Entertainingly, the rear admiral in charge of one of the two carrier strike groups is James Kirk.
It's only a terrible idea if you're not already in Beijing's pocket.

Pat
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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #778 on: February 10, 2021, 12:39:33 PM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/09/world/europe/france-threat-american-universities.html

Quote from: NYT
PARIS — The threat is said to be existential. It fuels secessionism. Gnaws at national unity. Abets Islamism. Attacks France’s intellectual and cultural heritage.

The threat? “Certain social science theories entirely imported from the United States,’’ said President Emmanuel Macron.

French politicians, high-profile intellectuals and journalists are warning that progressive American ideas — specifically on race, gender, post-colonialism — are undermining their society. “There’s a battle to wage against an intellectual matrix from American universities,’’ warned Mr. Macron’s education minister.

Emboldened by these comments, prominent intellectuals have banded together against what they regard as contamination by the out-of-control woke leftism of American campuses and its attendant cancel culture.
Ironic because France is very leftist, and doubly so because a lot of those ideas came from French intellectuals.

Mistwell

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #779 on: February 10, 2021, 03:56:18 PM »
I honestly cannot see how people are able to watch this video and not at least pause in their Trump-defensive rhetoric.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9245443/Watch-14-minute-video-Democrats-say-proves-Donald-Trump-convicted.html#v-1976645071595157194