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Author Topic: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021  (Read 20268 times)

Garry G

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #525 on: January 20, 2021, 11:59:21 AM »
Funny how the 'winner' desperately needed 30,000+ NG, 'properly vetted', to protect him during his own inauguration.

But that's none of my business *sip*

It's scary that you're NG has a anti-democratic traitor in their ranks.
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moonsweeper

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #526 on: January 20, 2021, 12:33:06 PM »
I think this will be the last populist president for some time. They're not going to make the same mistakes in our lifetimes.
Thank you Donald Trump. Whatever you are, you were the kick the pants that America needed.
Seventy million (or more) supporters might disagree.

Trump wasn't the disease. He wasn't the cause. He was a symptom of intense discontent with the 'Washington Way'.

But then, the left has never been very smart.

I see it mostly as a failure of Republican leadership, not a problem among Democrats. The elite political class of either party are limited in how far they can go, because if they go too far, they get voted out. Smart politicians give their supporters enough of the desired agenda that they stay in power. That's how democracy should work - the representatives respond to the will of the people.

I agree that Trump was a symptom of discontent. Working class Republicans were fed up with the Bush era politics, driven largely because economic inequality has been growing in the U.S. for the last thirty years. The rich are getting richer. The traditional Republican answer is trickle down theory - that even if the rich are growing richer, the rest are getting a boost too. However, that answer has been less and less accepted.

But how different are Trump's economic policies in practice for the average American?

Half of Trump's policy - and his biggest legislative agenda - was the traditional Republican playbook -- increase government spending and cut taxes across the board, running up the deficit. (The median American got around $1000 from the cuts, but the top 1% got $50,000.)

Where he departs from traditional is in his trade wars and restricted immigration. The benefit of those to the average American is unclear. I don't have a strong opinion, and opinion from economists seems highly varied.

1) $1000 to a median is a much bigger boost than $50,000 to a 1%'er...

   And I think the numbers are off.  As I said before, I do my own taxes and mine was about $2000 difference and I am near the median with no kids.  I'm guessing that wherever those numbers came from is using total taxes, not just federal.*

2) Restricted immigration raises wages by reducing the supply of workers. This can also raise prices but over the last 50 years the wage stagnation far outstrips any price increase that is due to reduced worker supply.

3) Trade wars and tariffs will cause similar effects, but again the fact that it is not true free trade has still caused prices to rise far faster than wages. 

   ...Would you allow a US company to use slave labor inside the border?  Setting aside the moral/ethical dilemma, economically it would give the company a significant advantage over competition.  Then why is it considered 'free' trade when you allow importers to do it?

4) Economists are never in consensus.  Everything is a series of trade-offs. 

*but its ok.  Biden said a few days ago they were going to remove the $10,000 exemption cap on state/local taxes.  That should help all those poor people in CA/NY who are paying more than $10,000 to the state and city...oh wait, that isn't the 'poor' or ' middle-class' is it?
"I have a very hard time taking seriously someone who has the time and resources to protest capitalism, while walking around in Nike shoes and drinking Starbucks, while filming it on their iPhone."  --  Alderaan Crumbs

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moonsweeper

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #527 on: January 20, 2021, 12:34:50 PM »
Funny how the 'winner' desperately needed 30,000+ NG, 'properly vetted', to protect him during his own inauguration.

But that's none of my business *sip*

It's scary that you're NG has a anti-democratic traitor in their ranks.

Really...a Traitor??...Wow!

Do you have a link to the charges?
"I have a very hard time taking seriously someone who has the time and resources to protest capitalism, while walking around in Nike shoes and drinking Starbucks, while filming it on their iPhone."  --  Alderaan Crumbs

"Just, can you make it The Ramones at least? I only listen to Abba when I want to fuck a stripper." -- Jeff37923

"Government is the only entity that relies on its failures to justify the expansion of its powers." -- David Freiheit (Viva Frei)

Mistwell

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #528 on: January 20, 2021, 01:29:48 PM »
So where are all the people who "guaranteed" Trump would be inaugurated for a second term in that other thread? Who will stand up and be brave enough to admit they said that and were wrong?

Ghostmaker

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #529 on: January 20, 2021, 01:54:29 PM »
Funny how the 'winner' desperately needed 30,000+ NG, 'properly vetted', to protect him during his own inauguration.

But that's none of my business *sip*

It's scary that you're NG has a anti-democratic traitor in their ranks.
Didn't take long for dissent to no longer be patriotic again.

So where are all the people who "guaranteed" Trump would be inaugurated for a second term in that other thread? Who will stand up and be brave enough to admit they said that and were wrong?
You cheat at solitaire, don't you?

moonsweeper

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #530 on: January 20, 2021, 02:03:44 PM »
So where are all the people who "guaranteed" Trump would be inaugurated for a second term in that other thread? Who will stand up and be brave enough to admit they said that and were wrong?

Geez, Congress and the media are still just 'talking' about rounding up and re-educating the 'disloyal'...are you trying to get a head start on your denouncement list?
"I have a very hard time taking seriously someone who has the time and resources to protest capitalism, while walking around in Nike shoes and drinking Starbucks, while filming it on their iPhone."  --  Alderaan Crumbs

"Just, can you make it The Ramones at least? I only listen to Abba when I want to fuck a stripper." -- Jeff37923

"Government is the only entity that relies on its failures to justify the expansion of its powers." -- David Freiheit (Viva Frei)

Garry G

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #531 on: January 20, 2021, 02:05:55 PM »
Funny how the 'winner' desperately needed 30,000+ NG, 'properly vetted', to protect him during his own inauguration.

But that's none of my business *sip*

It's scary that you're NG has a anti-democratic traitor in their ranks.

Really...a Traitor??...Wow!

Do you have a link to the charges?

Luckily they didn't need to be charged because they didn't have the opportunity to fulfill whatever traitorous agenda was in their heads.

No coup for you.
I'm still having a go at Keeping Cthulhu

Tubesock Army

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #532 on: January 20, 2021, 02:23:10 PM »
Funny how the 'winner' desperately needed 30,000+ NG, 'properly vetted', to protect him during his own inauguration.

But that's none of my business *sip*

Might as well complain about having Secret Service protection at all

moonsweeper

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #533 on: January 20, 2021, 02:29:20 PM »
Funny how the 'winner' desperately needed 30,000+ NG, 'properly vetted', to protect him during his own inauguration.

But that's none of my business *sip*

It's scary that you're NG has a anti-democratic traitor in their ranks.

Really...a Traitor??...Wow!

Do you have a link to the charges?

Luckily they didn't need to be charged because they didn't have the opportunity to fulfill whatever traitorous agenda was in their heads.

No coup for you.

Oh...So you lied about them being traitors then.

Apparently they must not have done anything untoward if there are also no USCMJ charges, since those are a bit more strict...

When did I ask for a coup? ???
"I have a very hard time taking seriously someone who has the time and resources to protest capitalism, while walking around in Nike shoes and drinking Starbucks, while filming it on their iPhone."  --  Alderaan Crumbs

"Just, can you make it The Ramones at least? I only listen to Abba when I want to fuck a stripper." -- Jeff37923

"Government is the only entity that relies on its failures to justify the expansion of its powers." -- David Freiheit (Viva Frei)

Mistwell

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #534 on: January 20, 2021, 02:45:46 PM »


Geez, Congress and the media are still just 'talking' about rounding up and re-educating the 'disloyal'...are you trying to get a head start on your denouncement list?

I'm just trying to hold people accountable for their actions, like they'd do to me:

Brad Said: Nahh, Trump will win, it's just gonna take a long time...

Brad said: Reality: Lots of litigation, voter fraud uncovered, Trump wins


Shasarak

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #535 on: January 20, 2021, 02:49:49 PM »
Luckily they didn't need to be charged because they didn't have the opportunity to fulfill whatever traitorous agenda was in their heads.

Oh...So you lied about them being traitors then.

Remember rawma was calling for liars to be punished.
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Pat

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #536 on: January 20, 2021, 02:55:52 PM »
I agree that Trump was a symptom of discontent. Working class Republicans were fed up with the Bush era politics, driven largely because economic inequality has been growing in the U.S. for the last thirty years. The rich are getting richer. The traditional Republican answer is trickle down theory - that even if the rich are growing richer, the rest are getting a boost too. However, that answer has been less and less accepted.

But how different are Trump's economic policies in practice for the average American?

Half of Trump's policy - and his biggest legislative agenda - was the traditional Republican playbook -- increase government spending and cut taxes across the board, running up the deficit. (The median American got around $1000 from the cuts, but the top 1% got $50,000.)

Where he departs from traditional is in his trade wars and restricted immigration. The benefit of those to the average American is unclear. I don't have a strong opinion, and opinion from economists seems highly varied.
Trump's support seems to draw from the same vein of discontent that led to the Tea Party movement. Saying it's about economic inequality is true to some degree, but it's looking at it from the wrong perspective. Because that's a very leftist way of looking at things, and they're not seeing it in terms of class struggles or whether some distant people are getting rich. They're more concerned about their own lives, and how they're doing in comparison to their parents and grandparents. So for them, it's more about the decline of Main Street and rural America, and the loss of jobs and opportunities. Andrew Yang's solutions are silly, but he diagnosed the problem pretty well in his book The War on Normal People. A lot of middle America has turned into an economic wasteland, with the young leaving if they can.

This decline is the result of a number of factors, including free trade and outsourcing, the shift from an industrial to a service economy, increasing automation, and the acceleration of all of the above with the growth of internet commerce and machine learning. Their boogeyman isn't the rich, it's the elites. Education, especially at elite schools with the concomitant connections and opportunities, is more of a dividing line that raw income. The increasing intrusion of the government on both economic and cultural matters has also led to a resentment of the technocratic elites in the federal government, regardless of their ostensible salaries.

The original Occupy movement was a mix of this, rightist libertarians, and leftist (pseudo?)anarchists. The three groups were reacting to the same core issues, but with very different perspectives and very different solutions. The libertarians focused more on opportunities, and opposed the Fed and state intervention. The leftists were more focused on economic inequality and class politics, and started pushing identity politics hard. That led to the other two groups disassociating themselves from the movement, turning Occupy into a hardcore anti(pro?)-authoritarian leftist movement.

I'm not very clear on Trump's real political views. In a lot of ways, he seems like a typical New York liberal, who doesn't care in the slightest about religious traditionalism or race. His stance on immigration is hard to reconcile with this, but can be explained by political opportunism -- he found an untapped vein of discontent, and exploited it. His appeal to evangelicals is similar: They know he's not one of them, but he'll speak to them and work with them, whereas the rest of the political establishment either bitterly opposes or treats them as an embarrassment.

But that doesn't really explain the birther nonsense, which was long before he became a political demagogue. I think he's really just a businessman, looking for opportunities and worried about competition. He's for free markets in the sense he wants to run a business and do well, but it's the nose in the weeds practical perspective, rather than a sky-high theoretical view from above. That's why he seems oblivious to the damage done by things like monetary inflation, because he has no theoretical grounding; and he's fine with stimulus packages, because he likes handing out things to his friends. He's has no problem with protectionism, as long it favors him or his allies.

I think there's less of a divide over the trade war with China than you think. The political and journalistic classes hate it because it comes from Trump, but even when NPR was interviewing trade officials or import/expert business heads, they couldn't find any who would flat-out say it was bad. They weren't confident that Trump's tactics were going to work, and they knew in the short term it would hurt, but they believed it was far past time someone stood up to China and all their unfair practices. Among economists, some supported the political establishment by saying China is bad and we need to do something, but Trump is still bad because he should have done it a bit differently; and some on the strong free market side will always argue in favor of unilaterally reducing all tariffs to zero; but most seem to think it's at least somewhat justified.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2021, 02:59:00 PM by Pat »

EOTB

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #537 on: January 20, 2021, 04:03:01 PM »
Let Mistwell tap dance - he’s been savoring the arrival of this moment for a long time

File that away, and vote against every candidate from the GOP he prefers, in 2022 primaries. 

Victors get to tap dance if the feel it’s wise. 
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Shasarak

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #538 on: January 20, 2021, 04:10:29 PM »
Let Mistwell tap dance - he’s been savoring the arrival of this moment for a long time

File that away, and vote against every candidate from the GOP he prefers, in 2022 primaries. 

Victors get to tap dance if the feel it’s wise.

Let him have his moment, his side cheated and won fair and square.
"There can be no middle ground with bigots. Bigots want to deny the rights and livelihood of people different from them. They want them to cease existing, either by going underground or by murdering them. There is no "let's meet in the middle" with that. To suggest there can be is ignorance" RPGNet

Garry G

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #539 on: January 20, 2021, 04:25:31 PM »
Funny how the 'winner' desperately needed 30,000+ NG, 'properly vetted', to protect him during his own inauguration.

But that's none of my business *sip*

It's scary that you're NG has a anti-democratic traitor in their ranks.

Really...a Traitor??...Wow!

Do you have a link to the charges?

Luckily they didn't need to be charged because they didn't have the opportunity to fulfill whatever traitorous agenda was in their heads.

No coup for you.

Oh...So you lied about them being traitors then.

Apparently they must not have done anything untoward if there are also no USCMJ charges, since those are a bit more strict...

When did I ask for a coup? ???

Mibbe eh mibbe naw.

Anybody who doesn't accept the democratic will if the American people is a traitor. To be a member of the armed forces and not be trustworthy to defend the President marks you out. True Americans should look to upholding the democratic traditions of the nation.
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