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Author Topic: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021  (Read 19165 times)

Shasarak

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #510 on: January 19, 2021, 08:13:03 PM »
I have no evidence. My suspicion is that we're not seeing top down co-ordinated voter fraud. I think we're seeing bottom-up voter fraud, only organized by the shared understanding that people who hate Trump think he's worse than Hitler and saving us from the Orange Holocaust was worth a little shenanigans.

At least there are some officials willing to do their job to investigate and prosecute election fraud:

https://en-volve.com/2021/01/14/election-official-arrested-in-texas-for-massive-voter-fraud-and-vote-harvesting-after-project-veritas-sting/

"There can be no middle ground with bigots. Bigots want to deny the rights and livelihood of people different from them. They want them to cease existing, either by going underground or by murdering them. There is no "let's meet in the middle" with that. To suggest there can be is ignorance" RPGNet

jhkim

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #511 on: January 19, 2021, 08:25:45 PM »
Your claim is that *every* case was dismissed with no review of the evidence -- but many were not. Six of the lawsuits had rulings against rather than dismissal, and many of the dismissals included a judgement of the evidence, not just dismissal for lack of standing. For example, from the Arizona case Bowyer et al. v. Ducey et al., here are some of the findings in the ruling:
...
Source: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCOURTS-azd-2_20-cv-02321/pdf/USCOURTS-azd-2_20-cv-02321-0.pdf

The eyewitness evidence *was* reviewed and *was* judged, and the case was dismissed with both a judgement of the evidence and a lack of standing.
Is this a finding of fact, jhkim? Actually, no, it's not. That court document is strange reading.

For example, page 6:
Quote
Plaintiffs allege in Count One that Defendants violated the Elections and Electors
Clauses and 28 U.S.C. § 1983 by, among other things, losing or destroying absentee ballots,
and/or replacing those ballots with “blank ballots filled out by election workers, Dominion
or other third parties” sending thousands of absentee ballots to someone besides the
registered voter that “could have been filled out by anyone.” (Doc. 1 at 41). Defendants
argue that Plaintiffs do not have standing to assert such a claim. (Doc. 40 at 8–9).
Wait, defendants aren't arguing that the plaintiffs are full of crap, they're arguing that the plaintiffs don't have standing to assert it? Am I misreading this?

See, this is what I'm talking about. There hasn't been audits. There hasn't been analysis. There's been sweeping under the rug, and hoping people will just settle down, and hiding behind laches, standing, and 'you're too early/too late'.

Sorry, no. Dance more. And pray to whatever deity you venerate we don't have a hot civil war over this.

Again, usual caveats that I'm not a lawyer - but from what I read, there are six reasons to the dismissal -- marked A (pg4) broken into Count 1 and Count 2, B (pg11), C (pg14), D (pg17), E (pg21), and F (pg22). Above, you are quoting from Count 1 of Part A, which is on lack of standing. But there are five other parts. The evidence is mostly reviewed in Part F, which is where they assess plausibility. The introduction for part F on pages 22-23 goes into how the evidence presented must establish that the allegations are plausible.

Quote
In a Rule 12(b)(6) context, courts must consider all well pleaded factual allegations as true and interpret them in the light most favorable to the plaintiff. Schlegal v. Wells Fargo Bank, NA, 720 F.3d 1204, 1207 (9th Cir. 2013). Dismissal is proper when there is either (1) a lack of a cognizable legal theory or (2) insufficient facts to support a cognizable legal claim.
...
Moreover, “claims of fraud or mistake . . . must, in addition to pleading with particularity, also plead plausible allegations. That is, the pleading must state enough facts to raise a reasonable expectation that discovery will reveal evidence of the misconduct alleged.”
...
Establishing the plausibility of a complaint’s allegations is a two-step process that is “context-specific” and “requires the reviewing court to draw on its judicial experience and common sense.” Iqbal, 556 U.S. 679. First, a court must “identif[y] pleadings that, because they are no more than conclusions, are not entitled to the assumption of truth.” Id. Then, assuming the truth only of well-pleaded factual allegations, a court must “determine whether they plausibly give rise to an entitlement to relief.”

consolcwby

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #512 on: January 19, 2021, 08:56:46 PM »
Look, I was going to post one more DESPAIR post, but... fuck it. I'm done. I'm done with you people. I tried. And tried. But to no avail... I tried being serious, silly, bombastic, and sarcastic. I tried to wake you all up. Looks like even ice water won't work. But I promised something ~ so here it is, in a nutshell:
===================
Back during college, I took a few electives, including a constitutional law course. I aced it. About as year later, during a seminar on writing a resume, I got into an argument about the law with a woman who was... woke. When I left the room, I was approached by another woman who wanted my resume saying she was a secretary-pool-typist for the government. I gave it to her - hoping for a job. After that exchange, I ran into many people I never met who knew who I was. I always knew it was from that resume. I get along with most people, and was told many strange things. In 2007 I got a job at an HP datacenter from a contracting company. It was pointless and boring: Checking cables, pushing power buttons, and dealing with library tapes all while navigating a rat-maze of servers. It was in 2010-11 that EDS (Perot's old company) from Texas came in with their Government computers. Our group had nothing to do with them, but I got along with the older people there. Well, around 2012 they began hooking into everything. I was getting tickets from them and relaying them over to EDS ~ who, quite frankly ~ didn't give two shits about taking down half of all continental telecoms or most of Alaskan Shipping. I was approached to work overtime and I did. Two 82 hour weeks. I got a call from the HP boss from Atlanta stating if I ever took more overtime that quarter I'd be fired. Fine. I was glad to get the rest. That's when my supervisor asked me for a 'Favor'. He told me EDS and the Feds were specifically asking for me to work 5 hours on my day off ~ Saturday. I told him it was impossible. I couldn't and talk to Robert (the boss). Well, he flew into his whole "Robert?! Fuck him! He's not here! Brian wants the fucking day off and I already said you'd cover! So, don't give me any of this HOLY DAY SHIT! I'm sick and tired of all this bullshit!" So, being who I am, I let him have it ~ told him I wasn't getting fired for him, Brian, Ted, or anyone. So, he left in a huff, came back an hour later and told me this: "Sorry. I told them you couldn't work and I think I got you killed." I looked at him and said "Yeah. Okaaay."
Two days later, I was called into the foyer of the building where my supervisor, EDS, and some sketchy-looking people were (2 dudes, reminded me of the blues brothers, and a woman). Mike from EDS started to talk when the woman came over and said this: "Yes or no: You were asked to work on Saturday. Will you do it?" I said I couldn't but before I could say anything, she said this: "Fine. Then you'll be just another dead kike we shoot in the head. You, your family, your friends. Enjoy your Shabbat." And I was escorted out by security. After that I began to be harrassed at work every day I came in, my car keyed, and being short on pay - just because. After six months of this, I left on sick leave, then on disability due to a previous condition. Now look, it didn't end there. For the next several years, I was reminded by both the city and state police, I was group stalked for a year (at least that I know of), and had break-ins while at home. In 2014-15 I had one to three black SUVs outside my home at night with laser scopes pointed at my house ~ calling the police? They would just laugh and hang up. That's when I started doing research and talking to other people who were in my situation.
I really, really wish I was just a LARP. My mother and Ex died and they knew. I stopped going outside of my house about 13 months ago, because I can't take the chance. So, now I'm telling you all this: IT IS NOT THE GOVERNMENT NOR IS IT THE SYSTEM. IT IS THE PEOPLE INSIDE IT. If you have the right people in the right place at the right time you can take over the most powerful nation in the world without ever firing a fucking shot! The sad thing is, you are all too far up your own asses to see the truth. So good luck. I had a good run, but I know now they will come back. But I've got a surprise waiting for them... my big mouth and a bit of truth for ammunition. That's why I like Danganronpa: TRUTH BULLETS to counter their big lie. (Great VN, btw! Made me happy during my internment!)  https://youtu.be/J_79uDFidd0

Anyway, sorry to offend! Sorry to insult! You deserved it! But not this.
GOOD LUCK!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------                    snip                    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                   https://youtu.be/Br3LRj2pwAs

Shasarak

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #513 on: January 19, 2021, 09:20:59 PM »
Anyway, sorry to offend! Sorry to insult! You deserved it! But not this.

Shit man, Hard Times Create Strong Men.  Come get some.
"There can be no middle ground with bigots. Bigots want to deny the rights and livelihood of people different from them. They want them to cease existing, either by going underground or by murdering them. There is no "let's meet in the middle" with that. To suggest there can be is ignorance" RPGNet

jhkim

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #514 on: January 19, 2021, 09:26:22 PM »
I have no evidence. My suspicion is that we're not seeing top down co-ordinated voter fraud. I think we're seeing bottom-up voter fraud, only organized by the shared understanding that people who hate Trump think he's worse than Hitler and saving us from the Orange Holocaust was worth a little shenanigans.

Thanks, Ratman. Yes, there's some fraud in every election - and I could believe that there was more in this election, given the extreme partisanship. We should find and prosecute these cases. But declaring fraud without evidence is wrong - as is flawed evidence like experts testifying about fraud in non-existent counties.


At least there are some officials willing to do their job to investigate and prosecute election fraud:

https://en-volve.com/2021/01/14/election-official-arrested-in-texas-for-massive-voter-fraud-and-vote-harvesting-after-project-veritas-sting/

Yes. There have been other charges filed as well, like Mr. Bartman of Pennsylvania charged with trying to register his dead mother and mother-in-law to vote for them.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pennsylvania-voter-fraud-republican-felony-charges-casting-ballot-for-dead-mother

These cases are proceeding, and it is quite likely the fraudsters put in jail. If we believe there are others responsible for fraud, people can still gather evidence and prosecute them. The statute of limitations on fraud prosecution is generally five years, from what I read in search.

rawma

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #515 on: January 19, 2021, 10:35:40 PM »
And just to pile on: no court has actually ruled on the merits of the lawsuits made regarding the election. Yes, the suits have been repeatedly thrown out -- on procedural or standing grounds, NOT on a review of the evidence.

So yeah, the whole 'oh that's been disproven' is a bald faced lie and people who say it should feel bad about themselves.

Seems I just keep rebutting this, and it just keeps getting repeated.
Quote from: rawma (from a locked thread)
Quote from: Judge Brett Ludwig, a Trump appointee
Quote
This Court has allowed plaintiff the chance to make his case and he has lost on the merits.
Page 22 at https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wied.92761/gov.uscourts.wied.92761.134.0_4.pdf

People like Ghostmaker who repeat lies should feel bad about themselves.

Shasarak

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #516 on: January 19, 2021, 11:25:45 PM »
People who repeat lies should feel bad about themselves.

How bad should they feel?
"There can be no middle ground with bigots. Bigots want to deny the rights and livelihood of people different from them. They want them to cease existing, either by going underground or by murdering them. There is no "let's meet in the middle" with that. To suggest there can be is ignorance" RPGNet

rawma

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #517 on: January 20, 2021, 12:00:13 AM »
People who repeat lies should feel bad about themselves.

How bad should they feel?

Depends on the lies and how many times they repeat them.

rawma

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #518 on: January 20, 2021, 12:02:07 AM »
The insurrection having failed, only 12 hours until Trump is no longer President, and President Biden can begin fixing things.  8)

Ratman_tf

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #519 on: January 20, 2021, 12:04:04 AM »


I'm glad Trump fought the election. Our system should be up to scrutiny, and the resistance to questioning the methods and results from the embedded establishment just showed how much the Democrats and Republicans are used to simply passing the golden scepter until their turn to screw the country comes around, and not actually responding to the people they claim to serve.

But best of all, everyone who claimed Trump was going to be yanked out of office by some fascist quasi-military action are going to be dissapointed in the extreme. Trump is leaving, as he said with a loyal and joyful heart. And everyone who masturbated to the demented fantasy of "toppling a dictator" get to stew in their toxicity.

I think this will be the last populist president for some time. They're not going to make the same mistakes in our lifetimes.
Thank you Donald Trump. Whatever you are, you were the kick the pants that America needed.
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moonsweeper

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #520 on: January 20, 2021, 01:37:40 AM »
I think this will be the last populist president for some time. They're not going to make the same mistakes in our lifetimes.
Thank you Donald Trump. Whatever you are, you were the kick the pants that America needed.

You are probably right, but it may depend on how the dust finally settles.  The establishment had to completely remove their masks in order to accomplish it.  If they keep pushing, something is going to break.

On the other hand, we do get to enjoy pointing out to all the Biden supporters that they are getting exactly what they voted for...

...although $20 in internet bucks says it will be less than 6 months before some of our fellow posters are going to whine 'But I didn't support that' when their 'most popular candidate in history' and his 'historic' running mate start in with all the establishment same old, same old...

One thing that will be interesting is how the establishment shakes itself out since the Republicans will be pretty much done as a party at this point.  The best they can offer is 'We are not the Democrats' which won't be enough to pull in the voters they need.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2021, 11:20:14 AM by moonsweeper »
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Ghostmaker

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #521 on: January 20, 2021, 08:20:16 AM »
I think this will be the last populist president for some time. They're not going to make the same mistakes in our lifetimes.
Thank you Donald Trump. Whatever you are, you were the kick the pants that America needed.
Seventy million (or more) supporters might disagree.

Trump wasn't the disease. He wasn't the cause. He was a symptom of intense discontent with the 'Washington Way'.

And those voters aren't going to just vanish just because people say mean things about them, or even deplatform them.

But then, the left has never been very smart.

Garry G

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #522 on: January 20, 2021, 11:39:07 AM »


I'm glad Trump fought the election. Our system should be up to scrutiny, and the resistance to questioning the methods and results from the embedded establishment just showed how much the Democrats and Republicans are used to simply passing the golden scepter until their turn to screw the country comes around, and not actually responding to the people they claim to serve.

But best of all, everyone who claimed Trump was going to be yanked out of office by some fascist quasi-military action are going to be dissapointed in the extreme. Trump is leaving, as he said with a loyal and joyful heart. And everyone who masturbated to the demented fantasy of "toppling a dictator" get to stew in their toxicity.

I think this will be the last populist president for some time. They're not going to make the same mistakes in our lifetimes.
Thank you Donald Trump. Whatever you are, you were the kick the pants that America needed.

I think many will be happy with him slinking out with his tail between his legs like the loser he is.
I'm still having a go at Keeping Cthulhu

Ghostmaker

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #523 on: January 20, 2021, 11:40:45 AM »
Funny how the 'winner' desperately needed 30,000+ NG, 'properly vetted', to protect him during his own inauguration.

But that's none of my business *sip*

jhkim

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #524 on: January 20, 2021, 11:49:38 AM »
I think this will be the last populist president for some time. They're not going to make the same mistakes in our lifetimes.
Thank you Donald Trump. Whatever you are, you were the kick the pants that America needed.
Seventy million (or more) supporters might disagree.

Trump wasn't the disease. He wasn't the cause. He was a symptom of intense discontent with the 'Washington Way'.

But then, the left has never been very smart.

I see it mostly as a failure of Republican leadership, not a problem among Democrats. The elite political class of either party are limited in how far they can go, because if they go too far, they get voted out. Smart politicians give their supporters enough of the desired agenda that they stay in power. That's how democracy should work - the representatives respond to the will of the people.

I agree that Trump was a symptom of discontent. Working class Republicans were fed up with the Bush era politics, driven largely because economic inequality has been growing in the U.S. for the last thirty years. The rich are getting richer. The traditional Republican answer is trickle down theory - that even if the rich are growing richer, the rest are getting a boost too. However, that answer has been less and less accepted.

But how different are Trump's economic policies in practice for the average American?

Half of Trump's policy - and his biggest legislative agenda - was the traditional Republican playbook -- increase government spending and cut taxes across the board, running up the deficit. (The median American got around $1000 from the cuts, but the top 1% got $50,000.)

Where he departs from traditional is in his trade wars and restricted immigration. The benefit of those to the average American is unclear. I don't have a strong opinion, and opinion from economists seems highly varied.