This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
The message boards have been upgraded. Please log in to your existing account by clicking here. It will ask twice, so that it can properly update your password and login information. If it has trouble recognizing your password, click the 'Forgot your password?' link to reset it with a new password sent to your email address on file.
The RPGPundit's Own Forum Rules
This part of the site is controlled by the RPGPundit. This is where he discusses topics that he finds interesting. You may post here, but understand that there are limits. The RPGPundit can shut down any thread, topic of discussion, or user in a thread at his pleasure. This part of the site is essentially his house, so keep that in mind. Note that this is the only part of the site where political discussion is permitted, but is regulated by the RPGPundit.

Author Topic: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021  (Read 19552 times)

VisionStorm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1117
    • View Profile
Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #375 on: January 13, 2021, 09:44:50 AM »
At the same time, I think that it's time for platforms to be responsible for the actual incitements to violence (far-left or far-right). They are pretty good at detecting and shutting down even fair-use of music or other media on their platforms, but they can't do shit about people who shout "FIRE" in a "crowded theater"?

No, online platforms should NOT be responsible for anything anyone posts in their site, and they are NOT good at detecting and shutting down copyrighted material precisely because they consistently shut down fair-use of music and other media. It is not the role of tech companies (or of self-entitled users within their platforms going after people they personally don't like) to make legal determinations about ANYTHING. They're not lawyers, they're not legal scholars or judges or law enforcement and have NO role in the government or legal procedures. These are NOT functions that fall within the purview of fucking monopolistic tech giants. It is not their job and they are not properly equipped to determine whether or not a supposed "tHrEaT oF vIolEnCe" or any other questionable post is legally actionable material. That is the job of the FBI, or equivalent agencies when it comes to users outside of the US. It's supposed to be THEM who make that determination, not our self-appointed tech overlords. That is why section 230 exists, and their insistence on stepping beyond their bounds is precisely why we're on this mess.

How should they not be responsible for monitoring what goes on their platforms? Unless you are saying that law enforcement should have people sitting at their desk sifting through YouTube crap.


And you're completely wrong. Their AI is excellent at auto-flagging even melodies played on a guitar that match copyrighted material. They could do the same with people inciting violence.

If they see something that they BELIEVE might be legally actionable they're supposed to report it to law enforcement and let THEM make the determination. If "concerned" citizens participating within those platforms see something questionable and want to rat out their political adversaries they could do the same. It's not rocket science.

And you're completely wrong. Their AI is excellent at auto-flagging even melodies played on a guitar that match copyrighted material. They could do the same with people inciting violence.

I already explained why algorithmically removing content doesn't work, you fucking retard.

ArrozConLeche

  • No Más
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1761
    • View Profile
Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #376 on: January 13, 2021, 09:46:01 AM »
I had commented earlier on how John Earle Sullivan, last seen shilling and supporting a BLM-Antifa riot in Provo, Utah, seemed just a BIT out of place in DC on 1/6.

Now there's another. Remember the guy with the funky horned headdress?

https://thenationalpulse.com/exclusive/capitol-antagonist-climate-change/

Yeah, I'm starting to get a distinct feeling of 'agent provocateur' here. I could be wrong, but, y'know, having these guys in the mix is a lot like Mr. Rogers as frontman for GWAR. Doesn't quite fit.

How do we know that's his sign and that he's not there counter protesting? He's done that at other times:

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/people/jake-angeli-q-shaman

I am not certain either way. Just want more evidence than a contextless photograph.

ArrozConLeche

  • No Más
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1761
    • View Profile
Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #377 on: January 13, 2021, 09:50:47 AM »
At the same time, I think that it's time for platforms to be responsible for the actual incitements to violence (far-left or far-right). They are pretty good at detecting and shutting down even fair-use of music or other media on their platforms, but they can't do shit about people who shout "FIRE" in a "crowded theater"?

No, online platforms should NOT be responsible for anything anyone posts in their site, and they are NOT good at detecting and shutting down copyrighted material precisely because they consistently shut down fair-use of music and other media. It is not the role of tech companies (or of self-entitled users within their platforms going after people they personally don't like) to make legal determinations about ANYTHING. They're not lawyers, they're not legal scholars or judges or law enforcement and have NO role in the government or legal procedures. These are NOT functions that fall within the purview of fucking monopolistic tech giants. It is not their job and they are not properly equipped to determine whether or not a supposed "tHrEaT oF vIolEnCe" or any other questionable post is legally actionable material. That is the job of the FBI, or equivalent agencies when it comes to users outside of the US. It's supposed to be THEM who make that determination, not our self-appointed tech overlords. That is why section 230 exists, and their insistence on stepping beyond their bounds is precisely why we're on this mess.

How should they not be responsible for monitoring what goes on their platforms? Unless you are saying that law enforcement should have people sitting at their desk sifting through YouTube crap.


And you're completely wrong. Their AI is excellent at auto-flagging even melodies played on a guitar that match copyrighted material. They could do the same with people inciting violence.

If they see something that they BELIEVE might be legally actionable they're supposed to report it to law enforcement and let THEM make the determination. If "concerned" citizens participating within those platforms see something questionable and want to rat out their political adversaries they could do the same. It's not rocket science.

So you think that this should be handled by people sifting through thousands of Youtube videos, thousands of Facebook posts, etc?

And you're completely wrong. Their AI is excellent at auto-flagging even melodies played on a guitar that match copyrighted material. They could do the same with people inciting violence.

I already explained why algorithmically removing content doesn't work, you fucking retard.



Did I say they should automatically remove it, pinche pendejo? lol I just said they alaready have the technology to recognize and monitor it.

« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 09:54:25 AM by ArrozConLeche »

Ghostmaker

  • Chlorine trifluoride
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1161
    • View Profile
Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #378 on: January 13, 2021, 10:37:31 AM »
I already explained why algorithmically removing content doesn't work, you fucking retard.
I love how he assumes that any algorithm won't be skewed by programmers anyways.

It's like how Twitter happily leaves the genocidal blathering of Ayatollah Khamenei up, but God forbid Trump say mean things. Bias is a thing.

KingCheops

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • K
  • Posts: 968
    • View Profile
Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #379 on: January 13, 2021, 12:10:17 PM »
Holy Shit!

Rolling Stone magazine still covers music?

rawma

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1789
    • View Profile
Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #380 on: January 13, 2021, 12:14:34 PM »
Seven days from now, Joseph R. Biden of Delaware will be President of the United States.

The attack on the Capitol Building continues to look worse and worse; the insurrection was coming from within the House. The 14th amendment is probably more in play than the 25th amendment ever was.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/01/13/mikie-sherrill-reconnaissance-capitol-attack/

rawma

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1789
    • View Profile
Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #381 on: January 13, 2021, 12:23:31 PM »
::)  Pat, it's not always about Pat. Mistwell's "you" looks to be generic, as in "if you support the people who stormed the Capitol then you are in the extreme minority". He conveyed exactly that through the polling numbers about approval of that riot, but the "you" in that post might have been a generic person or specific to Spinachcat, to whom he was replying (and to whom he might still be referring, although it seems unlikely to me). Which you (Pat) presumably read since you (Pat) replied to that post. (The "your" in "your poll" which you omitted is you (Pat), by context, though.)

And he really didn't talk about Trump approval, only about people who don't trust the election results. Trump approval is going to be more stable, since supporters and detractors alike are going to look at Trump over a much longer period of time. Finding a more stable statistic to rebut the opinions of current events (last week's riot, the election of just over two months ago) looks like cherry picking.
The you looks specific to me. Confusing posters in a fast-moving thread is pretty easy.

Willfully misinterpreting posts to fuel complaints is a trademark Pat move.

Quote
And rebutting what? I didn't refute anything, I provided another data point.
Rather than using a strained segue into a different topic (you (Pat) now claim you intended to discuss something else), how about just posting what you (Pat) want to talk about? You (Pat) wrote:
There's that, and there's this:

Your (Pat's) polling number directly juxtaposed with the polling numbers that Mistwell posted, clearly to rebut that Mistwell's polling numbers were meaningful.

Pat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • P
  • Posts: 2406
    • View Profile
Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #382 on: January 13, 2021, 12:40:18 PM »
::)  Pat, it's not always about Pat. Mistwell's "you" looks to be generic, as in "if you support the people who stormed the Capitol then you are in the extreme minority". He conveyed exactly that through the polling numbers about approval of that riot, but the "you" in that post might have been a generic person or specific to Spinachcat, to whom he was replying (and to whom he might still be referring, although it seems unlikely to me). Which you (Pat) presumably read since you (Pat) replied to that post. (The "your" in "your poll" which you omitted is you (Pat), by context, though.)

And he really didn't talk about Trump approval, only about people who don't trust the election results. Trump approval is going to be more stable, since supporters and detractors alike are going to look at Trump over a much longer period of time. Finding a more stable statistic to rebut the opinions of current events (last week's riot, the election of just over two months ago) looks like cherry picking.
The you looks specific to me. Confusing posters in a fast-moving thread is pretty easy.

Willfully misinterpreting posts to fuel complaints is a trademark Pat move.

Quote
And rebutting what? I didn't refute anything, I provided another data point.
Rather than using a strained segue into a different topic (you (Pat) now claim you intended to discuss something else), how about just posting what you (Pat) want to talk about? You (Pat) wrote:
There's that, and there's this:

Your (Pat's) polling number directly juxtaposed with the polling numbers that Mistwell posted, clearly to rebut that Mistwell's polling numbers were meaningful.
And you're back to blatantly lying about me, you odious little troll.

VisionStorm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1117
    • View Profile
Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #383 on: January 13, 2021, 01:40:16 PM »
At the same time, I think that it's time for platforms to be responsible for the actual incitements to violence (far-left or far-right). They are pretty good at detecting and shutting down even fair-use of music or other media on their platforms, but they can't do shit about people who shout "FIRE" in a "crowded theater"?

No, online platforms should NOT be responsible for anything anyone posts in their site, and they are NOT good at detecting and shutting down copyrighted material precisely because they consistently shut down fair-use of music and other media. It is not the role of tech companies (or of self-entitled users within their platforms going after people they personally don't like) to make legal determinations about ANYTHING. They're not lawyers, they're not legal scholars or judges or law enforcement and have NO role in the government or legal procedures. These are NOT functions that fall within the purview of fucking monopolistic tech giants. It is not their job and they are not properly equipped to determine whether or not a supposed "tHrEaT oF vIolEnCe" or any other questionable post is legally actionable material. That is the job of the FBI, or equivalent agencies when it comes to users outside of the US. It's supposed to be THEM who make that determination, not our self-appointed tech overlords. That is why section 230 exists, and their insistence on stepping beyond their bounds is precisely why we're on this mess.

How should they not be responsible for monitoring what goes on their platforms? Unless you are saying that law enforcement should have people sitting at their desk sifting through YouTube crap.


And you're completely wrong. Their AI is excellent at auto-flagging even melodies played on a guitar that match copyrighted material. They could do the same with people inciting violence.

If they see something that they BELIEVE might be legally actionable they're supposed to report it to law enforcement and let THEM make the determination. If "concerned" citizens participating within those platforms see something questionable and want to rat out their political adversaries they could do the same. It's not rocket science.

So you think that this should be handled by people sifting through thousands of Youtube videos, thousands of Facebook posts, etc?

Yes.

The immediate necessity to purge every single instance of anyone saying something that could possibly, MAAAYBE be construed as theoretically "inciting" violence (according to someone's subjective interpretation of it) or some other objectionable material is the fevered dream of demented imbeciles who feel the need to control absolutely, positively EVERYTHING. We don't NEED to police every single instance of someone telling someone else to "KYS retard, lol" in social media. It's NEUROTIC.

If it's so egregious someone feels the need to do something they can just report it (and even then that tends to lead to bans for completely harmless wrongthink or edgyspeak). But if no one saw it and no one was upset it doesn't fucking matter. We don't need to scour the internet for every instance of someone failing to toe the line.

And you're completely wrong. Their AI is excellent at auto-flagging even melodies played on a guitar that match copyrighted material. They could do the same with people inciting violence.

I already explained why algorithmically removing content doesn't work, you fucking retard.



Did I say they should automatically remove it, pinche pendejo? lol I just said they alaready have the technology to recognize and monitor it.

Dude, I'm Puerto Rican, not Mexican. Das waycist, yo!  :o

We don't even use the word "pinche" here. We'd just probably say "Canto 'e pedenjo!", or maybe "Jodio fuckin' pendejo!", "Canto 'e fuckin' pedenjo!" or something like that.

I already explained why algorithmically removing content doesn't work, you fucking retard.
I love how he assumes that any algorithm won't be skewed by programmers anyways.

It's like how Twitter happily leaves the genocidal blathering of Ayatollah Khamenei up, but God forbid Trump say mean things. Bias is a thing.

Implying that the Ayatollah needs to be banned is deeply Islamophobic, though. But banning Trump for saying that he's supporters will not be disrespected is OK, cuz Orange Man Bad + White Privilege.

EOTB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1165
    • View Profile
Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #384 on: January 13, 2021, 01:41:05 PM »
Go on. Define what their trolley problems are, and why that means you can't call a hypocrite a hypocrite (unless, of course, EOTB approves of it).

I don’t think so, bruh.  I made a statement that using hypocrisy arguments as direct persuasion was a foolish waste of time, because people don’t care about some rando “shaming” them.  Which is self-evident in the impact your own crying hypocrisy has had here - the exact same big fat zero that all the hypocrisy arguments thrown from here in the direction of RPG.net have had. 

This you’ve twisted into saying you can’t use that rhetoric without my permission.  So don’t ask me for further good-faith explanations on anything else.
A framework for generating local politics

https://mewe.com/join/osric A MeWe OSRIC group - find an online game; share a monster, class, or spell; give input on what you'd like for new OSRIC products.  Just don't 1) talk religion/politics, or 2) be a Richard

moonsweeper

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 684
    • View Profile
Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #385 on: January 13, 2021, 01:53:09 PM »
Holy Shit!

Rolling Stone magazine still covers music?

Well, that issue is 12 years old...
"I have a very hard time taking seriously someone who has the time and resources to protest capitalism, while walking around in Nike shoes and drinking Starbucks, while filming it on their iPhone."  --  Alderaan Crumbs

"Just, can you make it The Ramones at least? I only listen to Abba when I want to fuck a stripper." -- Jeff37923

"Government is the only entity that relies on its failures to justify the expansion of its powers." -- David Freiheit (Viva Frei)

jhkim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8667
    • View Profile
Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #386 on: January 13, 2021, 02:42:58 PM »
Regarding social media responsibility:

No, online platforms should NOT be responsible for anything anyone posts in their site, and they are NOT good at detecting and shutting down copyrighted material precisely because they consistently shut down fair-use of music and other media. It is not the role of tech companies (or of self-entitled users within their platforms going after people they personally don't like) to make legal determinations about ANYTHING. They're not lawyers, they're not legal scholars or judges or law enforcement and have NO role in the government or legal procedures. These are NOT functions that fall within the purview of fucking monopolistic tech giants. It is not their job and they are not properly equipped to determine whether or not a supposed "tHrEaT oF vIolEnCe" or any other questionable post is legally actionable material. That is the job of the FBI, or equivalent agencies when it comes to users outside of the US. It's supposed to be THEM who make that determination, not our self-appointed tech overlords. That is why section 230 exists, and their insistence on stepping beyond their bounds is precisely why we're on this mess.

What do you think about Trump's calls to remove Section 230 protections for social media?

https://techcrunch.com/2020/12/23/trump-ndaa-veto-section-230/

I'm not sure exactly where I stand on how to reform Section 230, but I do think that it is *not* simply the purview of the FBI and police to handle all lawbreaking. Citizens have a responsibility to report crime and not participate in it.

For example, someone tells me a slanderous rumor about someone else - I then write it up and send it to a newspaper, which prints it. I think both I and the newspaper have some responsibility here - both legally and ethically. Just mindlessly repeating what one is told is wrong. People should be responsible for what they say and publish. That is a standard that newspapers are held to, but social media companies get a special legal loophole.

That said, I'm not eager for social media companies to be the determiners of truth. *If* we give them a legal loophole to avoid responsibility, though, then there need to be strings attached that make the social media more functionally public and allowing of free speech.

ArrozConLeche

  • No Más
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1761
    • View Profile
Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #387 on: January 13, 2021, 02:46:54 PM »
Go on. Define what their trolley problems are, and why that means you can't call a hypocrite a hypocrite (unless, of course, EOTB approves of it).

I don’t think so, bruh.  I made a statement that using hypocrisy arguments as direct persuasion was a foolish waste of time, because people don’t care about some rando “shaming” them.  Which is self-evident in the impact your own crying hypocrisy has had here - the exact same big fat zero that all the hypocrisy arguments thrown from here in the direction of RPG.net have had. 


So you're admitting that when you cry 'hypocrisy', you've been willfully wasting your time. Got it, bruh.

Shasarak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2568
    • View Profile
Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #388 on: January 13, 2021, 02:53:58 PM »
If you say so. I saw you use the n-word, but haven't seen you say 'beaner', 'spic' and other racist stuff in the last hour at least.  I"m inclined to believe you would though, since you admit so!

Beaner?

What are you, retarded or legitimately brain damaged?
"There can be no middle ground with bigots. Bigots want to deny the rights and livelihood of people different from them. They want them to cease existing, either by going underground or by murdering them. There is no "let's meet in the middle" with that. To suggest there can be is ignorance" RPGNet

ArrozConLeche

  • No Más
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1761
    • View Profile
Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #389 on: January 13, 2021, 02:55:32 PM »
If you say so. I saw you use the n-word, but haven't seen you say 'beaner', 'spic' and other racist stuff in the last hour at least.  I"m inclined to believe you would though, since you admit so!

Beaner?

What are you, retarded or legitimately brain damaged?

You're projecting there. But at least you haven't said 'beaner' in the last 10 minutes.