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Author Topic: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021  (Read 117627 times)

VisionStorm

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #105 on: January 09, 2021, 01:58:42 PM »
No one, including myself, is trying to convince anyone of anything here; we are just expressing ourselves because for some reason people like to do that in times of chaos and stress. But  if you don't like my posts, don't worry about it; I just came by  to see what the the alt-right segment of the gaming community - the only part of the right I regularly encounter - was saying in a place where they feel safe to fume and blather. It confirmed my impression that the cultural divorce between the right and everyone else is still well in effect, and good riddance.

The various slices of the Trumpism pie have a lot of details to natter on about during the coming days, including but reaching far beyond the stew of absurd ideas and beloved grievances they talk about here. But the main thing they will have to confront is that over a short few years they have basically nothing to show for, they have evolved from a powerful voting block into a group that's just walked into the political wilderness with no plan for getting back out. To one side is the abandonment of your weird belief system and re-integration with the part of society that likes things like the Constitution, democracy and fact-based decision making; to the other side is the descent from political minority to something like a Sunni factionalism to something like an ISIS self-governing gang of violent dipshits, to dead (the end point of anyone who refuses to leave this path). As  far as I am concerned, you can all choke on each other's dicks. But it will be interesting to watch what sorts of choices they all make.

When the "alt-right" is whoever you declare them to be, everyone you meet is "alt-right". You're just a delusion idiot blabbering incomprehensible nonsense at figments of your imagination that don't connect with anything that anyone is saying here and venting onto people you decided are evil monsters apparently based on your desire to frame people as such as a type of sick therapy of sorts, like yelling at random people on the internet makes you feel better. I don't even remember seeing you before last night (or maybe the night before that), yet somehow you have an accurate lock on WTF my actual believes are? Go visit a psych doctor and get medicated or something, or smoke some weed instead.
Seems to me there's no difference between what you posted and:
When the "Marxist" is whoever you declare them to be, everyone you meet is "Marxist". You're just a delusion idiot blabbering incomprehensible nonsense at figments of your imagination that don't connect with anything that anyone is saying here and venting onto people you decided are evil monsters apparently based on your desire to frame people as such as a type of sick therapy of sorts, like yelling at random people on the internet makes you feel better.
Kinda weird, no?

Yeah, specially since I've rarely ever even used the word "Marxist", specially not to declare everyone that indiscriminately.

VisionStorm

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #106 on: January 09, 2021, 02:03:07 PM »

You do realize the police let the protestors into Capital Hill?  This was a set up.
Your tinfoil hat might just be a little too tight, but please explain what you mean.

There are videos of the cops moving the barricades to let people in and I already posted an article a couple of posts ago about how off duty cops and military personnel were among the rioters in the Capitol. Even if it's still technically speculative, saying that it was a set up is NOT just a tinfoil hat theory at this point. There's actual evidence to suggest that may have been the case.

Ya I’ve seen that along with cops standing around doing nothing while people actively break through doors but it seems it was them being complicit rather than them setting up the protestors.

Unless we consider the possibility that maybe those explosive devices that have suddenly been found but never went off or seem to have been strategically placed anywhere where they may have caused actual harm may have been planted by those same "complicit" cops letting the useful idiots inside the Capitol or storming the building with them.

SHARK

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #107 on: January 09, 2021, 02:04:22 PM »
You do realize the police let the protestors into Capital Hill?  This was a set up.

Greetings!

I keep on hearing many people saying the same thing, Snowman. Several people and commentators that are well-regarded and known for being sharp have also voiced suspicions of such. As improbable as I might think it is--or part of me, anyways--I can't put anything beyond the Marxist Democrats, ANTIFA, and whatever scum fucking traitors and power-mongers they have ensconced in various agencies of the government. Sadly, deep down, I think many Americans agree that such malicious interference and duplicitousness is entirely possible. I've seen photos taken, video footage, and so on, that damn, yeah. I'm suspicious of more BS from parts of the government. It shouldn't be surprising, though, really. We have large numbers of politicians and political bureaucrats that *hate*President Trump, they hate Conservatives and Trump supporters, and well, is there anything these fucking traitors *wouldn't* do to make Trump and Patriotic Americans that support Trump look bad? All the while, providing themselves with an excuse to grasp more power, make lists of people they can demonize and oppress, and push for more Marxist tyranny?

I think many of these Marxist scum would do anything to advance the Democrat party's power, and to gain advantage against Conservative, patriotic Americans.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
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rawma

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #108 on: January 09, 2021, 02:07:57 PM »
Anyone want to comment about the presence of John Earle Sullivan at the protest?

(Whozat, Ghost?)

Oh. He's an activist and photojournalist whose last gig was supporting an Antifa/BLM rally in Provo, Utah.

I'm sure he was there for totally innocent reasons. Really.

Weird; a photojournalist at a large public event? Probably selling socks.

Pat
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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #109 on: January 09, 2021, 02:17:18 PM »
And since Trump only won 46% of the vote in 2016, I certainly wouldn't call 'half of his supporters' 25% of the population - only 23%.  But that's just math.   
No, it's a failure to understand how to correctly apply math to the real world. In 2016, 63 million voted for Trump, and the US population was 323 million. That's 19.5% of the population. Halve that for the targets of Hillary's hate speech.

Wrong denominator; the voting eligible population in 2016 was much lower, and Clinton's statement was about supporters, not voters.
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/01/30/2017-01890/estimates-of-the-voting-age-population-for-2016
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/11/03/in-past-elections-u-s-trailed-most-developed-countries-in-voter-turnout/

The low turnout is lamentable; I hope nobody is discouraging turnout by saying that an individual's vote doesn't matter.
Correct denominator. I specifically used the total population in 2016, not the total number of eligible voters, because this isn't about who is allowed to vote. It's about who the politicians really represent, and their claims of authority based on the explicit support of the population. And I don't really care about Hillary's statement; only I threw that to make it clear that my numbers was not the half number DeadDMwalking was using.

Your vote doesn't matter, no politician has anything approaching a mandate, and even if they did that's still no excuse to run roughshod over the rest of the population.

HappyDaze

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #110 on: January 09, 2021, 02:35:48 PM »
No one, including myself, is trying to convince anyone of anything here; we are just expressing ourselves because for some reason people like to do that in times of chaos and stress. But  if you don't like my posts, don't worry about it; I just came by  to see what the the alt-right segment of the gaming community - the only part of the right I regularly encounter - was saying in a place where they feel safe to fume and blather. It confirmed my impression that the cultural divorce between the right and everyone else is still well in effect, and good riddance.

The various slices of the Trumpism pie have a lot of details to natter on about during the coming days, including but reaching far beyond the stew of absurd ideas and beloved grievances they talk about here. But the main thing they will have to confront is that over a short few years they have basically nothing to show for, they have evolved from a powerful voting block into a group that's just walked into the political wilderness with no plan for getting back out. To one side is the abandonment of your weird belief system and re-integration with the part of society that likes things like the Constitution, democracy and fact-based decision making; to the other side is the descent from political minority to something like a Sunni factionalism to something like an ISIS self-governing gang of violent dipshits, to dead (the end point of anyone who refuses to leave this path). As  far as I am concerned, you can all choke on each other's dicks. But it will be interesting to watch what sorts of choices they all make.

When the "alt-right" is whoever you declare them to be, everyone you meet is "alt-right". You're just a delusion idiot blabbering incomprehensible nonsense at figments of your imagination that don't connect with anything that anyone is saying here and venting onto people you decided are evil monsters apparently based on your desire to frame people as such as a type of sick therapy of sorts, like yelling at random people on the internet makes you feel better. I don't even remember seeing you before last night (or maybe the night before that), yet somehow you have an accurate lock on WTF my actual believes are? Go visit a psych doctor and get medicated or something, or smoke some weed instead.
Seems to me there's no difference between what you posted and:
When the "Marxist" is whoever you declare them to be, everyone you meet is "Marxist". You're just a delusion idiot blabbering incomprehensible nonsense at figments of your imagination that don't connect with anything that anyone is saying here and venting onto people you decided are evil monsters apparently based on your desire to frame people as such as a type of sick therapy of sorts, like yelling at random people on the internet makes you feel better.
Kinda weird, no?

Yeah, specially since I've rarely ever even used the word "Marxist", specially not to declare everyone that indiscriminately.
Cool. Glad to hear that you'll be blasting at the bleating asswipes that are calling everyone they dislike Marxists. For the record, I don't tend to use labels like alt-right or Marxist either. I do call a lot of people assholes and similar names, but those don't fall along party lines.

Pat
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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #111 on: January 09, 2021, 02:42:38 PM »
There are  well documented news reports of everything I wrote. If you haven't seen them, it means you have not been interested enough to check. 
Your first claim is "'protesters' murdered a cop by crushing his head with fire extinguisher". Except I've seen no source beyond random nobodies like you claiming it was directly caused by protesters, that it qualifies as murder, or that his head was crushed. The press release by the Capitol Police on the 7th said he was "injured while physically engaging with protesters". Which is a remarkably useless statement, because it could include friendly fire, an accident like a fall, or some kind of medical condition triggered by stress, like having a stroke. The statement also says he "returned to his division office and collapsed", which seems somewhat unlikely if it was the result of major, obvious trauma (he wouldn't be transporting himself, and he'd be taken to a hospital instead), though I can think of some scenarios where that could have happened. There's also a statement on the 8th by the acting attorney general that they are starting a murder investigation, and "will spare no resources in investigating and holding accountable those responsible". But again, that says little or nothing. An investigation was pretty much guaranteed, looking into whether it was murder does not mean it's murder, and responsibility can mean almost anything. Almost all the news reports seem to be based on the press release and the statement by the acting attorney general. The article l linked below has some additional information, mentioning that the reports of a fire extinguisher can't be confirmed, and that one of their sources said the death was the result of a medical condition, which further suggest it was very different from what you said.

If anybody has any good sources giving more detail on Sicknick's death, I'd like to see them.

It's similar to what we know about the three people who died due to "medical emergencies". Which could be anything; heat stroke, anaphylactic shock, and massive trauma are all medical emergencies. The only death where there seems to be any real information at the moment is Ashli Babbitt's, where they've been very clear she was shot and killed by a cop.

https://www.uscp.gov/media-center/press-releases/loss-uscp-colleague-brian-d-sicknick
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/capitol-police-officer-dies-injuries-suffered-riots/story?id=75124131
« Last Edit: January 09, 2021, 03:02:21 PM by Pat »

rawma

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #112 on: January 09, 2021, 03:44:12 PM »
And since Trump only won 46% of the vote in 2016, I certainly wouldn't call 'half of his supporters' 25% of the population - only 23%.  But that's just math.   
No, it's a failure to understand how to correctly apply math to the real world. In 2016, 63 million voted for Trump, and the US population was 323 million. That's 19.5% of the population. Halve that for the targets of Hillary's hate speech.

Wrong denominator; the voting eligible population in 2016 was much lower, and Clinton's statement was about supporters, not voters.
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/01/30/2017-01890/estimates-of-the-voting-age-population-for-2016
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/11/03/in-past-elections-u-s-trailed-most-developed-countries-in-voter-turnout/

The low turnout is lamentable; I hope nobody is discouraging turnout by saying that an individual's vote doesn't matter.
Correct denominator.

Nope, it's not correct. You can't compare number of votes Trump received to the entire population, which includes those who are too young to vote, to determine the level of support. Just speaking from the point of view of applying mathematics to the real world.

jhkim

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #113 on: January 09, 2021, 05:23:42 PM »
If anybody has any good sources giving more detail on Sicknick's death, I'd like to see them.

Here's the most that I see:

Quote
Sicknick, 42, was hit in the head with a fire extinguisher during a struggle, two law enforcement officials said, although it was not clear if he was the officer shown in the video. The officials could not discuss the ongoing investigation publicly and spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity.
Source: https://apnews.com/article/capitol-police-death-brian-sicknick-46933a828d7b12de7e3d5620a8a04583

It's similar to what we know about the three people who died due to "medical emergencies". Which could be anything; heat stroke, anaphylactic shock, and massive trauma are all medical emergencies. The only death where there seems to be any real information at the moment is Ashli Babbitt's, where they've been very clear she was shot and killed by a cop.

https://www.uscp.gov/media-center/press-releases/loss-uscp-colleague-brian-d-sicknick
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/capitol-police-officer-dies-injuries-suffered-riots/story?id=75124131

DC police have confirmed the other three dead as Benjamin Phillips, 50, of Ringtown, Pennsylvania; Kevin Greeson, 55, of Athens, Alabama; and Rosanne Boyland, 34, of Kennesaw, Georgia.

Quote
Rosanne Boyland, 34, was killed in the crush when a few rioters started pushing people, her friend Justin Winchell said.

"They basically created a panic, and the police, in turn, push back on them, so people started falling," Mr Winchell said.

"I put my arm underneath her and was pulling her out and then another guy fell on top of her, and another guy was just walking (on top of her).

"There were people stacked two-three deep…people just crushed."

Paramedics desperately tried to revive her but were unable to.

Photos from earlier that day showed her carrying the banner with the phrase "Don't tread on me".
Source: https://www.9news.com.au/world/rosanne-boyland-trampled-dont-tread-on-me-gadsden-flag-donald-trump-us-capitol-riot/5d5c7251-e17c-4961-88a8-a906f38d7b54

The other two apparently died of strokes -> heart problems. The circumstances of Phillips stroke are still unclear, but Greeson was on the phone with his wife and collapsed near a reporter.

Quote
A member of the group from Honesdale, Gordy Smith, said several people called Phillips when it was time to leave but he didn't arrive. One of those calls was answered by Washington police and told them Phillips suffered a stroke and died at George Washington University Hospital.
Source: https://meaww.com/benjamin-phillips-death-capitol-riots-trumparoo-donald-trump-died-stroke-pennsylvania-ex-wife-kids

Quote
Mr. Greeson had been talking to his wife on his phone when he fell to the sidewalk. A New York Times reporter watched as emergency personnel rushed to help, furiously performing chest compressions, but were unable to revive him.
Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/us/politics/an-alabama-man-who-suffered-a-heart-attack-outside-the-capitol-is-among-the-dead.html
« Last Edit: January 09, 2021, 05:55:46 PM by jhkim »

Daztur

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #114 on: January 09, 2021, 05:36:54 PM »
One them them apparently tasered himself.

jhkim

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #115 on: January 09, 2021, 05:45:17 PM »
One them them apparently tasered himself.

That was retracted as unconfirmed by the reporter who originally wrote it. It could have been Phillips, but it might just be a false rumor.

Source: https://www.distractify.com/p/did-a-rioter-taser-himself-to-death

rawma

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #116 on: January 09, 2021, 05:50:24 PM »
There are  well documented news reports of everything I wrote. If you haven't seen them, it means you have not been interested enough to check. 
Your first claim is "'protesters' murdered a cop by crushing his head with fire extinguisher". Except I've seen no source beyond random nobodies like you claiming it was directly caused by protesters, that it qualifies as murder, or that his head was crushed. The press release by the Capitol Police on the 7th said he was "injured while physically engaging with protesters". Which is a remarkably useless statement, because it could include friendly fire, an accident like a fall, or some kind of medical condition triggered by stress, like having a stroke. The statement also says he "returned to his division office and collapsed", which seems somewhat unlikely if it was the result of major, obvious trauma (he wouldn't be transporting himself, and he'd be taken to a hospital instead), though I can think of some scenarios where that could have happened. There's also a statement on the 8th by the acting attorney general that they are starting a murder investigation, and "will spare no resources in investigating and holding accountable those responsible". But again, that says little or nothing. An investigation was pretty much guaranteed, looking into whether it was murder does not mean it's murder, and responsibility can mean almost anything. Almost all the news reports seem to be based on the press release and the statement by the acting attorney general. The article l linked below has some additional information, mentioning that the reports of a fire extinguisher can't be confirmed, and that one of their sources said the death was the result of a medical condition, which further suggest it was very different from what you said.

If anybody has any good sources giving more detail on Sicknick's death, I'd like to see them.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/us/brian-sicknick-police-capitol-dies.html
Quote
At some point in the chaos — with the mob rampaging through the halls of Congress while lawmakers were forced to hide under their desks — he was struck with a fire extinguisher, according to two law enforcement officials.

If it was the fire extinguisher, one would infer that he was hit in the head; it's difficult to imagine any other location that would lead to him collapsing and dying later without having noticed a severe injury immediately. But perhaps he sustained injuries in other ways and the fire extinguisher is a red herring (they do tend to be red). I can't imagine that he was struck with a fire extinguisher by a member of Congress, a staffer, a legitimate visitor, or other police, so I'm pretty sure that would have been a rioter. An AP story references a video of a rioter hitting a police officer with a fire extinguisher:
Quote
Armed with metal pipes, pepper spray and other weapons, the mob pushed past the thin police line, and one protester hurled a fire extinguisher at a officer, according to video widely circulated on YouTube.
...
Sicknick, 42, was hit in the head with a fire extinguisher during a struggle, two law enforcement officials said, although it was not clear if he was the officer shown in the video.
Given that very few Capitol Police have ever died in the line of duty, it would be an extreme coincidence if he just happened to die then for unrelated reasons.

jhkim summarized the other deaths, although I think Kevin Greeson was reported to have died of a heart attack rather than a stroke (lots of claims that he caused it by tasering himself, but now jhkim has posted corrections about that.)

Pat
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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #117 on: January 09, 2021, 05:59:41 PM »
Quote
Correct denominator.

Nope, it's not correct. You can't compare number of votes Trump received to the entire population, which includes those who are too young to vote, to determine the level of support. Just speaking from the point of view of applying mathematics to the real world.
Yes, it is correct. I'm talking about mandates, and how politicians claim they have a mandate when only a tiny sliver of the population voted for them. In that context, the entire population matters. It doesn't matter whether they're in prison or whether they're too young, because they're still part of the population being represented by the politician.

Are you just obstinately refusing to see any point of view other than your own, as usual?

Pat
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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #118 on: January 09, 2021, 06:17:55 PM »
If anybody has any good sources giving more detail on Sicknick's death, I'd like to see them.

Here's the most that I see:

Quote
Sicknick, 42, was hit in the head with a fire extinguisher during a struggle, two law enforcement officials said, although it was not clear if he was the officer shown in the video. The officials could not discuss the ongoing investigation publicly and spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity.
Source: https://apnews.com/article/capitol-police-death-brian-sicknick-46933a828d7b12de7e3d5620a8a04583

It's similar to what we know about the three people who died due to "medical emergencies". Which could be anything; heat stroke, anaphylactic shock, and massive trauma are all medical emergencies. The only death where there seems to be any real information at the moment is Ashli Babbitt's, where they've been very clear she was shot and killed by a cop.

https://www.uscp.gov/media-center/press-releases/loss-uscp-colleague-brian-d-sicknick
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/capitol-police-officer-dies-injuries-suffered-riots/story?id=75124131

DC police have confirmed the other three dead as Benjamin Phillips, 50, of Ringtown, Pennsylvania; Kevin Greeson, 55, of Athens, Alabama; and Rosanne Boyland, 34, of Kennesaw, Georgia.

Quote
Rosanne Boyland, 34, was killed in the crush when a few rioters started pushing people, her friend Justin Winchell said.

"They basically created a panic, and the police, in turn, push back on them, so people started falling," Mr Winchell said.

"I put my arm underneath her and was pulling her out and then another guy fell on top of her, and another guy was just walking (on top of her).

"There were people stacked two-three deep…people just crushed."

Paramedics desperately tried to revive her but were unable to.

Photos from earlier that day showed her carrying the banner with the phrase "Don't tread on me".
Source: https://www.9news.com.au/world/rosanne-boyland-trampled-dont-tread-on-me-gadsden-flag-donald-trump-us-capitol-riot/5d5c7251-e17c-4961-88a8-a906f38d7b54

The other two apparently died of strokes -> heart problems. The circumstances of Phillips stroke are still unclear, but Greeson was on the phone with his wife and collapsed near a reporter.

Quote
A member of the group from Honesdale, Gordy Smith, said several people called Phillips when it was time to leave but he didn't arrive. One of those calls was answered by Washington police and told them Phillips suffered a stroke and died at George Washington University Hospital.
Source: https://meaww.com/benjamin-phillips-death-capitol-riots-trumparoo-donald-trump-died-stroke-pennsylvania-ex-wife-kids

Quote
Mr. Greeson had been talking to his wife on his phone when he fell to the sidewalk. A New York Times reporter watched as emergency personnel rushed to help, furiously performing chest compressions, but were unable to revive him.
Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/us/politics/an-alabama-man-who-suffered-a-heart-attack-outside-the-capitol-is-among-the-dead.html
Useful. Sicknick's death could still be an accident of some kind, but based on your links it seems far more likely someone is culpable of something, though murder is still pure speculation. Since he returned to the division office on his own, the injury was neither immediately fatal nor obviously critical. Sounds like there was a scuffle, an injury, and that resulted in death because of underlying conditions. But the fire extinguisher, the nature of the injury, and the preexisting conditions are all based on unknown sources, so it's still not conclusive. It may be a while before we learn the entire truth, because they won't be sharing much during the investigation.

Being crushed in a crowd is a terrible way to go, but it's hard to pin on a single individual. The other two are unfortunate, but may be nobody's responsibility.

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #119 on: January 09, 2021, 06:19:38 PM »
So is this the new thread for discussion of the cosplay coup?

Eager to get it shut down as well?

No, not at all. What gave you the impression I want a thread shut down, much less one I like to participate in?