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Fan Forums => The RPGPundit's Own Forum => Topic started by: SHARK on January 06, 2021, 10:43:06 AM

Title: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 06, 2021, 10:43:06 AM
Greetings!

Live Coverage of the rally for President Trump in Washington, DC. Reporters on the ground there describe "An ocean of Patriots" gathered together at the Elipse area, and beyond.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK


Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 07, 2021, 07:12:42 PM
Greetings!

Here, Unite America First, is live in Washington, DC.

Coverage live also of thousands of people at the Capital building.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: consolcwby on January 07, 2021, 07:39:34 PM
Don't know if anyone saw this, but...


I sure wish I was "THAT GUY"!  ;D
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 08, 2021, 09:45:50 AM
Greetings!

Will Johnson, journalist for Unite America First, provides additional coverage in DC recently after the 600PM curfew was imposed by the DC mayor.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 08, 2021, 11:01:09 AM
Greetings!

Will Johnson, journalist for Unite America First, provides additional coverage in DC recently after the 600PM curfew was imposed by the DC mayor.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK


People verbally venting their frustrations but otherwise behaving themselves...
Police acting professionally while enforcing the law...
So, that's what Nazi Germany was like? ::)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on January 08, 2021, 11:05:36 AM
So is this the new thread for discussion of the cosplay coup?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 08, 2021, 11:18:46 AM
So is this the new thread for discussion of the cosplay coup?
At least the denial.about the election being over should be wrapped up, and that's what the last thread was supposed to be about.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 08, 2021, 11:53:45 AM
Trump conceded. How is it not over? Who are you going to install in there?

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 08, 2021, 12:10:57 PM
From the protests, I was particularly struck by this woman's testimony:



Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 08, 2021, 12:14:40 PM
She should thank her stars she's not dead like that other poor woman or the cop. Dying for a fucking politician. What a fucking waste.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 08, 2021, 12:43:49 PM
Don't know if anyone saw this, but...


I sure wish I was "THAT GUY"!  ;D


Greetings!

Salty Cracker is great. I always enjoy his program. Good stuff, Consolcwby!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 08, 2021, 12:59:31 PM
From the protests, I was particularly struck by this woman's testimony:



Greetings!

Hello, Jhkim. Indeed, the woman engaged with police brings risks--getting smacked with a baton or maced, or shot with pepper balls are the least of worries. She could have been shot and killed by the police like the woman that was a veteran and *unarmed*--she was shot from 20 feet away, while carrying a flag.

As for the woman in the video here, believing that the day's events were a "revolution" is unfortunately misguided. It is certainly not a "Revolution"--it was a rally and protest. As BLM and ANTIFA--and all of their media lapdogs and political patrons have lectured to the rest of America for months, people out protesting and rioting are in pain, and their cause is righteous! Their voices aren't being heard! That's what Leftists have been screeching at America for months--like Chris Cuomo, of CNN told us, "Who ever said that protests have to be peaceful and non-violent?"

So, there are other Americans that want their voices heard as well.

This isn't surprising to me in the slightest.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 08, 2021, 01:04:15 PM
A: "Rioting is wrong."
B: "But they didz it too!"
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 08, 2021, 01:42:57 PM
As for the woman in the video here, believing that the day's events were a "revolution" is unfortunately misguided. It is certainly not a "Revolution"--it was a rally and protest. As BLM and ANTIFA--and all of their media lapdogs and political patrons have lectured to the rest of America for months, people out protesting and rioting are in pain, and their cause is righteous! Their voices aren't being heard!

As for being heard... Trump is constantly in the headlines - his addresses and Tweets get constant attention. His following isn't some little-known underground movement -- they're constantly being discussed in both right-leaning and left-leaning media.

Your problem isn't that Trump and his supporters aren't being *heard*. The problem is that they are not being *believed*.

Screaming louder, breaking into buildings, and other extremes don't make them more believable and win people to their side. It makes them less believable.


As for Elizabeth from the video... She was a part of the day's events, and she believed it was a revolution. So I believe that's what motivated her. Here's another person speaking out about their participation:

Quote
CEO says breaching Capitol was ‘single worst’ decision of his life
...
“My decision to enter the Capitol was wrong, and I am deeply regretful to have done so,” Rukstales said in a statement. “Without qualification and as a peaceful and law-abiding citizen, I condemn the violence and destruction that took place in Washington.”

Rukstales also apologized to his family, colleagues and “fellow countrymen” for his actions.

“It was the single worst personal decision of my life,” the exec’s statement continued. “I have no excuse for my actions and wish that I could take them back.”
Source: https://nypost.com/2021/01/08/ceo-says-breaching-capitol-was-single-worst-decision-of-his-life/
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 08, 2021, 01:43:34 PM
A: "Rioting is wrong."
B: "But they didz it too!"
I remarked elsewhere, 'This is not how you First Amendment'. But watching the narrative spin on its tail from 'protests are good' to 'protests are bad' is pretty damn amazing.

Quick! Who said this?

"The whole point of protesting is to make ppl uncomfortable. Activists take that discomfort w/the status quo & advocate for concrete policy changes. Popular support often starts small & grows. To folks who complain protest demands make others uncomfortable... that's the point."

That would be noted Trump fan Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

How about this one?

"I don't like violent protests, but I understand them. And those wagging their fingers against violent protests need to read up on their American history."

Why, that would be well-known alt-rightist Sally Kohn.

Quick, who had this headline?

"Riots are destructive, dangerous, and scary -- but can lead to serious social reforms."

Well, well, it's the clearly Koch-brothers funded Vox-dot-com!

You say you don't like it, fine. Fair enough. But you don't get to cry about how terrible 'the right' is for simply picking up the same weapons the left has been wielding nonstop for the last year.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 08, 2021, 01:57:36 PM
So is this the new thread for discussion of the cosplay coup?

Eager to get it shut down as well?

A: "Rioting is wrong."
B: "But they didz it too!"

Do you ever have anything of value to say, or are you here just to snipe at strawmen because you have no actual argument?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 08, 2021, 01:58:48 PM
I'm not defending the sjws who did it. I guess I just had better hopes of finding actual integrity here.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 08, 2021, 02:00:34 PM
Do you ever have anything of value to say, or are you here just to snipe at strawmen because you have no actual argument?

Right, because people here haven't been justifying the capitol riots by invoking "but they did it first mommy!" I don't know what forum you've been reading. Come back to earth son.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 08, 2021, 02:08:24 PM
As for the woman in the video here, believing that the day's events were a "revolution" is unfortunately misguided. It is certainly not a "Revolution"--it was a rally and protest. As BLM and ANTIFA--and all of their media lapdogs and political patrons have lectured to the rest of America for months, people out protesting and rioting are in pain, and their cause is righteous! Their voices aren't being heard!

As for being heard... Trump is constantly in the headlines - his addresses and Tweets get constant attention. His following isn't some little-known underground movement -- they're constantly being discussed in both right-leaning and left-leaning media.

Trump and his supporters being consistently brought up by media vultures trying to get clicks by sniping at the president and stoking public outrage by painting his base as "far right" neo-Nazi lunatics has fuck to do with people being heard, which is OBVIOUSLY was SHARK was talking about. Trump's tweets being used as a springboard for media headlines is meaningless. His followers, as well as other dissenting voices who may not agree with him, are constantly suppressed by social media while the voices of the establishment and their minions get promoted. Attempts to start alternative platforms get consistently shut down. That Parler exists for the time being (and mark my words, that site is going down as well) does NOT remove the fact that many other alternatives to social media and payment processing have been removed and denied vital services for their operations for YEARS.

And the so-called "Left" Intersectional lunatics are just useful idiots. AOC has done FUCK since she got elected and progressives have gotten NOTHING so far. They can't even passed a vote on Medicare for All. Intersectionality gets promoted because it causes division, not because the establishment gives one shit about "progressive" causes. NO ONE but the voice of the establishment and its boot lickers is being heard.

EDIT: grammer is hard  :P
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 08, 2021, 02:14:37 PM
Do you ever have anything of value to say, or are you here just to snipe at strawmen because you have no actual argument?

Right, because people here haven't been justifying the capitol riots by invoking "but they did it first mommy!" I don't know what forum you've been reading. Come back to earth son.

No, they haven't. EVERYONE who's brought up anything approaching a "justification" of the capitol protests has been more nuanced than that, and no one has come out and outright justified it (with the possible exception of Spinachcat, who came out saying he was "proud" of them at one point in the other thread), merely attempted to explain the causes leading up it. But you've been too busy sniping at people and making broad proclamations with bothering to quote a single post and address anything that's actually being said. You're fucking WORTHLESS.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 08, 2021, 02:25:31 PM
https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159634/#msg1159634

That's just one instance of someone calling them patriots. If that doesn't sound like an endorsement to you, then I don't know if you speak English motherfucker.

Not to mention the youtube crackpot links that keep egging on this BS. I don't need to link you to every instance, do I?

Then again, why am I expecting any of you to not be lying idiots.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 08, 2021, 02:42:14 PM
A: "Rioting is wrong."
B: "But they didz it too!"

I think AOC said it best: The whole point of protesting is to make people uncomfortable

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 08, 2021, 02:52:41 PM
Right, because people here haven't been justifying the capitol riots by invoking "but they did it first mommy!" I don't know what forum you've been reading. Come back to earth son.

No, they haven't. EVERYONE who's brought up anything approaching a "justification" of the capitol protests has been more nuanced than that, and no one has come out and outright justified it (with the possible exception of Spinachcat, who came out saying he was "proud" of them at one point in the other thread), merely attempted to explain the causes leading up it.

This was SHARK on the other thread:

Quote from: SHARK
*Thousands* of American patriots all singing the National Anthem as more patriots storm the Capital building!

Huge chants of "OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE!"

More chanting, "USA! USA! USA!"

Hundreds of Americans pouring inside the doors! Thousands everywhere, surrounding everything!

Fucking LOCK AND LOAD!!! Amazing!
(ref) (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159401/#msg1159401)

Quote from: SHARK
Nancy Polosi's office has been taken. Evidently she left in such haste, she left her computer open. Patriots are reading her Emails right now, and searching her computer.

Capital Police have attempted to use mace, tear gas and batons. Whistles blowing loudly, all to no avail. Tens of thousands of Patriots marching everywhere. American flags waving like great forests. Other scenes show police merely standing by, watching as Patriots march and pour about. Police do not seem eager to be violent in general.

Thundering roars of USA! USA! USA!

More singing of the National Anthem! Thousands singing all in unison!

Entire Capital building looks like it is overwhelmed and thoroughly occupied by Patriots!

So many huge crowds everywhere! Men, women, all chanting!

MAGA!
(ref) (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159415/#msg1159415)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 08, 2021, 03:00:31 PM
As for the woman in the video here, believing that the day's events were a "revolution" is unfortunately misguided. It is certainly not a "Revolution"--it was a rally and protest. As BLM and ANTIFA--and all of their media lapdogs and political patrons have lectured to the rest of America for months, people out protesting and rioting are in pain, and their cause is righteous! Their voices aren't being heard!

As for being heard... Trump is constantly in the headlines - his addresses and Tweets get constant attention. His following isn't some little-known underground movement -- they're constantly being discussed in both right-leaning and left-leaning media.

Your problem isn't that Trump and his supporters aren't being *heard*. The problem is that they are not being *believed*.

Screaming louder, breaking into buildings, and other extremes don't make them more believable and win people to their side. It makes them less believable.


As for Elizabeth from the video... She was a part of the day's events, and she believed it was a revolution. So I believe that's what motivated her. Here's another person speaking out about their participation:

Quote
CEO says breaching Capitol was ‘single worst’ decision of his life
...
“My decision to enter the Capitol was wrong, and I am deeply regretful to have done so,” Rukstales said in a statement. “Without qualification and as a peaceful and law-abiding citizen, I condemn the violence and destruction that took place in Washington.”

Rukstales also apologized to his family, colleagues and “fellow countrymen” for his actions.

“It was the single worst personal decision of my life,” the exec’s statement continued. “I have no excuse for my actions and wish that I could take them back.”
Source: https://nypost.com/2021/01/08/ceo-says-breaching-capitol-was-single-worst-decision-of-his-life/

Wow. It's like getting into a mob mentality turns off people's better judgement and makes them suceptible to do all kinds of stupid things.

The important point that some of us have been trying to make, is that the mainstream media and united states politicans  excused these kinds of riots when they thought they were justified. And now they're condemning them. I know you have aknowledged this, but many aren't. They are just fine with the hypocracy.

It's too fucking late to stop this shit. It's going to happen and it's going to get worse this year. We have set the precedent that violent riots are acceptable political action in America. That genie wont' go back into the bottle until everyone get exhausted.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: deadDMwalking on January 08, 2021, 03:06:19 PM
Storming the capital wasn't like any of the BLM protests.  Not one. 

I thought this article from fivethirtyeight (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/storming-the-u-s-capitol-was-about-maintaining-white-power-in-america/) was interesting.

Quote
Much will be said about the fact that these actions threaten the core of our democracy and undermine the rule of law. Commentators and political observers will rightly note that these actions are the result of disinformation and heightened political polarization in the United States. And there will be no shortage of debate and discussion about the role Trump played in giving rise to this kind of extreme behavior. As we have these discussions, however, we must take care to appreciate that this is not just about folks being angry about the outcome of one election. Nor should we believe for one second that this is a simple manifestation of the president’s lies about the integrity of his defeat. This is, like so much of American politics, about race, racism and white Americans’ stubborn commitment to white dominance, no matter the cost or the consequence.

Since on this site there's been so much ink spilled comparing and contrasting left versus right protests, and several people have said 'anything is justified if MY SIDE claims it' (usually accusing the other side of holding that belief) let's talk about the differences between these protests. 

So, what was the 'Stop the Steal' rally about?  Clearly it was overturning the election results that showed Biden winning over Trump.  Nobody involved in the election outside the top of the ticket argued that their own election was the result of fraud.  The results for down-ballot races closely mirror the same results at the highest level.  There are processes for preventing fraud prior to the election, Democrats offered money to increase election security, and the existing state government officials many of whom were Republican confirmed that the election was free, fair and accurate.

What Constitutional principle were they demonstrating in favor of? 

Meanwhile, we accept that governments exist to secure life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.  BLM protesters argue that police violence unfairly targets innocent members of their community - literally denying them life and the freedom of movement that white Americans take for granted. 

Both protests made me uncomfortable - BLM because American has failed to deliver on the promise of equal treatment under the law.  The 'Stop the Steal' makes me uncomfortable because clearly millions of self-styled 'Patriots' are willing to abandon the rule of law and Democratic government to ensure their preferred ruler is installed. 

Democracy doesn't exist to give the veneer of respectability to autocracy - it exists to ensure the will of the people is maintained.  Fortunately, in this country we have strong protections for the minority.  Many of those protections have been under assault by the Trump administration, but I don't expect that to continue under Biden.  Nobody is coming for your guns.  Democrats aren't trying to repeal the Constitution.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 08, 2021, 03:14:29 PM
Do you ever have anything of value to say, or are you here just to snipe at strawmen because you have no actual argument?

Right, because people here haven't been justifying the capitol riots by invoking "but they did it first mommy!" I don't know what forum you've been reading. Come back to earth son.

Democrats have more than their fair share of blame to shoulder. Hilary famously called half of America "Deplorables" in order to make political hay. (And then wondered why she lost the election)
The mainstream media have covered for their malfesance and stoked the fires of indignation for clicks and views.

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/533239-cnn-says-it-had-its-most-watched-day-in-history-amid-capitol-riots

Outrage is good money.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on January 08, 2021, 03:24:30 PM
It was in no way right or a good thing.  But I still laugh my ass off that now the "peaceful protests" have come to the congress floor a whole bunch of repubican and democrat shitbirds are losing their minds.  They sit on their asses when Joe Mainstreet get his storefront and life destroyed, but act as if this was the first action in WW3 when those pisspants have to hide under their desks and feel an actual tingle of fear that the common person gets to experience from time to time. 

  I would get prepared to expected a good deal more of these sorts of things, and some of them are going to actually be large scale bloody.  We can all go on an on about "democracy" and will of the people, but the people "in charge" are far removed from the concerns of the people.  In the end, blood and violence decide societal future.  Always have, and always will.  There is going to be blood and violence, and where the final direction falls, take guesses, because its going to be a shit mess.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 08, 2021, 03:26:50 PM
Storming the capital wasn't like any of the BLM protests.  Not one. 

They were all mainly peaceful protests.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Cloyer Bulse on January 08, 2021, 03:29:26 PM
The white flag of surrender is now the official flag of America. Imagine if the founding fathers of America said regarding the revolution,  "no violence", "we're the party of peace and law and order." They must be rolling in their graves.

All you have to do now is shout "covid!" and Americans drop to their knees and put their hands up in surrender.

Remember that scene in GoT when Cersei shredded the document and asked mockingly, "this is your protection?" The Chinese just shredded the Constitution and used it for toilet paper. They are laughing at America.

The entire world is laughing at america.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: deadDMwalking on January 08, 2021, 03:32:09 PM
Democrats have more than their fair share of blame to shoulder. Hilary famously called half of America "Deplorables" in order to make political hay. (And then wondered why she lost the election)

Correction - she referred to half of Trump voters as 'deplorables'. 

Quote from: Clinton
“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?  The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.”


Romney referred to 47% of Americans pretty negatively.

Quote from: Romney
There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that’s an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what…These are people who pay no income tax.

Of course, Trump had some unkind words for the people who rioted.  Whether they represent 'half of his supporters' isn't clear, but for round numbers, it's probably not totally inaccurate.  There are people HERE who weren't at the Capitol but think it was righteous. 

Quote from: Trump
The demonstrators who infiltrated the Capitol have defiled the seat of American democracy.  To those who engaged in the acts of violence and destruction, you do not represent our country.

Deplorable would be a $5 word for Trump (he prefers 'really bad hombres'), but I think those words indicate that he is calling them deplorables.  So, depending on what percentage of his supporters think the assault on the Capitol was justified, maybe Clinton was right? 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 08, 2021, 03:33:14 PM
Storming the capital wasn't like any of the BLM protests.  Not one. 

I thought this article from fivethirtyeight (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/storming-the-u-s-capitol-was-about-maintaining-white-power-in-america/) was interesting.

Quote
Much will be said about the fact that these actions threaten the core of our democracy and undermine the rule of law. Commentators and political observers will rightly note that these actions are the result of disinformation and heightened political polarization in the United States. And there will be no shortage of debate and discussion about the role Trump played in giving rise to this kind of extreme behavior. As we have these discussions, however, we must take care to appreciate that this is not just about folks being angry about the outcome of one election. Nor should we believe for one second that this is a simple manifestation of the president’s lies about the integrity of his defeat. This is, like so much of American politics, about race, racism and white Americans’ stubborn commitment to white dominance, no matter the cost or the consequence.

Since on this site there's been so much ink spilled comparing and contrasting left versus right protests, and several people have said 'anything is justified if MY SIDE claims it' (usually accusing the other side of holding that belief) let's talk about the differences between these protests. 

So, what was the 'Stop the Steal' rally about?  Clearly it was overturning the election results that showed Biden winning over Trump.  Nobody involved in the election outside the top of the ticket argued that their own election was the result of fraud.  The results for down-ballot races closely mirror the same results at the highest level.  There are processes for preventing fraud prior to the election, Democrats offered money to increase election security, and the existing state government officials many of whom were Republican confirmed that the election was free, fair and accurate.

What Constitutional principle were they demonstrating in favor of? 

Meanwhile, we accept that governments exist to secure life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.  BLM protesters argue that police violence unfairly targets innocent members of their community - literally denying them life and the freedom of movement that white Americans take for granted. 

Both protests made me uncomfortable - BLM because American has failed to deliver on the promise of equal treatment under the law.  The 'Stop the Steal' makes me uncomfortable because clearly millions of self-styled 'Patriots' are willing to abandon the rule of law and Democratic government to ensure their preferred ruler is installed. 

Democracy doesn't exist to give the veneer of respectability to autocracy - it exists to ensure the will of the people is maintained.  Fortunately, in this country we have strong protections for the minority.  Many of those protections have been under assault by the Trump administration, but I don't expect that to continue under Biden.  Nobody is coming for your guns.  Democrats aren't trying to repeal the Constitution.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgNzK9dWsAEEBr6.jpg)

Black Lives Matter is factually wrong about their claims.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/07/03/police-black-killings-homicide-rates-race-injustice-column/3235072001/

Breaking into the Capitol building was bad, but the protest was legitimate from a 1st Amendment perspective. BLM and Antifa have that right as well, as long as they don't break the law either.
People making mealy mouthed excuses about "whataboutism" miss the forest for the trees. Excusing one set of riots and condemning others weakens the argument that X riot was bad.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 08, 2021, 03:40:00 PM
The white flag of surrender is now the official flag of America. Imagine if the founding fathers of America said regarding the revolution,  "no violence", "we're the party of peace and law and order." They must be rolling in their graves.

All you have to do now is shout "covid!" and Americans drop to their knees and put their hands up in surrender.

Remember that scene in GoT when Cersei shredded the document and asked mockingly, "this is your protection?" The Chinese just shredded the Constitution and used it for toilet paper. They are laughing at America.

The entire world is laughing at america.

Maybe consider that a good number of Americans don't want your far right brand  nor the far left brand  of 'revolution'. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 08, 2021, 03:43:46 PM
Democrats have more than their fair share of blame to shoulder. Hilary famously called half of America "Deplorables" in order to make political hay. (And then wondered why she lost the election)

Correction - she referred to half of Trump voters as 'deplorables'. 

Quote from: Clinton
“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?  The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.”

I stand corrected. Do you think her claim was accurate? That 25% of Americans are deplorable?

Quote
Romney referred to 47% of Americans pretty negatively.

Quote from: Romney
There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that’s an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what…These are people who pay no income tax.

I tend to agree with the idea that government assistance can create perverse incentives. I also think that some government assistance is probably a good idea. The trick is balancing the system so that it doesn't trap people into the very problems the program is trying to help with. So far, Democrats have shown a severe lack of aknowledgement of the perverse incentive problem.

Quote
Of course, Trump had some unkind words for the people who rioted.  Whether they represent 'half of his supporters' isn't clear, but for round numbers, it's probably not totally inaccurate.  There are people HERE who weren't at the Capitol but think it was righteous. 

Quote from: Trump
The demonstrators who infiltrated the Capitol have defiled the seat of American democracy.  To those who engaged in the acts of violence and destruction, you do not represent our country.

Deplorable would be a $5 word for Trump (he prefers 'really bad hombres'), but I think those words indicate that he is calling them deplorables.  So, depending on what percentage of his supporters think the assault on the Capitol was justified, maybe Clinton was right?

I would be very hesitant to use this message board as evidence of anything. We have posters who have blatantly stated their political postings are trolling and posturing. And we don't know how many do and are maintaing a facade of sincerity. And many are "internet tough guys", fed up with the rhetoric and slinging some right back.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 08, 2021, 03:45:16 PM
(https://specials-images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/5ff65288cf85b50272c47d4d/960x0.jpg?cropX1=0&cropX2=8192&cropY1=416&cropY2=5026)

I think this is one of my favourites
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 08, 2021, 03:47:07 PM
https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159634/#msg1159634

That's just one instance of someone calling them patriots. If that doesn't sound like an endorsement to you, then I don't know if you speak English motherfucker.

Not to mention the youtube crackpot links that keep egging on this BS. I don't need to link you to every instance, do I?

Then again, why am I expecting any of you to not be lying idiots.

Damn, you found the most sarcastic poster on the boards calling them "Patriots" after several others insisted on referring to them as "Insurrectionists" in prior posts. You really got me on that one. I guess this means we ALL now supported people storming the Capitol 100% with zero reservations, and agree entirely that it was a brilliant idea cuz ONE guy called them "Patriots" at one point. Like people can't be "Patriots" and do stupid misguided shit at the same time.

A: "Rioting is wrong."
B: "But they didz it too!"

I think AOC said it best: The whole point of protesting is to make people uncomfortable

(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/55777165/shes-right-you-know.jpg)

Right, because people here haven't been justifying the capitol riots by invoking "but they did it first mommy!" I don't know what forum you've been reading. Come back to earth son.

No, they haven't. EVERYONE who's brought up anything approaching a "justification" of the capitol protests has been more nuanced than that, and no one has come out and outright justified it (with the possible exception of Spinachcat, who came out saying he was "proud" of them at one point in the other thread), merely attempted to explain the causes leading up it.

This was SHARK on the other thread:

Quote from: SHARK
*Thousands* of American patriots all singing the National Anthem as more patriots storm the Capital building!

Huge chants of "OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE!"

More chanting, "USA! USA! USA!"

Hundreds of Americans pouring inside the doors! Thousands everywhere, surrounding everything!

Fucking LOCK AND LOAD!!! Amazing!
(ref) (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159401/#msg1159401)

Quote from: SHARK
Nancy Polosi's office has been taken. Evidently she left in such haste, she left her computer open. Patriots are reading her Emails right now, and searching her computer.

Capital Police have attempted to use mace, tear gas and batons. Whistles blowing loudly, all to no avail. Tens of thousands of Patriots marching everywhere. American flags waving like great forests. Other scenes show police merely standing by, watching as Patriots march and pour about. Police do not seem eager to be violent in general.

Thundering roars of USA! USA! USA!

More singing of the National Anthem! Thousands singing all in unison!

Entire Capital building looks like it is overwhelmed and thoroughly occupied by Patriots!

So many huge crowds everywhere! Men, women, all chanting!

MAGA!
(ref) (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159415/#msg1159415)

Yeah, I forgot about that post. Still doesn't change the fact that people who were actually discussing the protest, as opposed to just bring up the news of the day while cheering for their side, gave far more nuanced reasons than "but they did it first!", which was the actual point.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 08, 2021, 03:50:53 PM

Democracy doesn't exist to give the veneer of respectability to autocracy - it exists to ensure the will of the people is maintained.  Fortunately, in this country we have strong protections for the minority.  Many of those protections have been under assault by the Trump administration, but I don't expect that to continue under Biden.  Nobody is coming for your guns.  Democrats aren't trying to repeal the Constitution.
No, they'd just rather 'encourage' other entities to not do business with or give any succor to people with wrongthink views.

CNN's Oliver Darcy is demanding TV and cable providers deplatform news stations that are insufficiently left.
https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1347465189252341764?s=20

Democracy, right?

And 'nobody is coming for your guns'? My God, do you believe what you're saying? The only reason the Dems have pulled back from gun control in recent years is because it's been like sticking the fork in the wall outlet, from an election standpoint. Heck, Florida alone is facing seven crap tier gun control bills this year.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 08, 2021, 03:53:40 PM
Storming the capital wasn't like any of the BLM protests.  Not one. 

I thought this article from fivethirtyeight (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/storming-the-u-s-capitol-was-about-maintaining-white-power-in-america/) was interesting.

Quote
Much will be said about the fact that these actions threaten the core of our democracy and undermine the rule of law. Commentators and political observers will rightly note that these actions are the result of disinformation and heightened political polarization in the United States. And there will be no shortage of debate and discussion about the role Trump played in giving rise to this kind of extreme behavior. As we have these discussions, however, we must take care to appreciate that this is not just about folks being angry about the outcome of one election. Nor should we believe for one second that this is a simple manifestation of the president’s lies about the integrity of his defeat. This is, like so much of American politics, about race, racism and white Americans’ stubborn commitment to white dominance, no matter the cost or the consequence.

Since on this site there's been so much ink spilled comparing and contrasting left versus right protests, and several people have said 'anything is justified if MY SIDE claims it' (usually accusing the other side of holding that belief) let's talk about the differences between these protests. 

So, what was the 'Stop the Steal' rally about?  Clearly it was overturning the election results that showed Biden winning over Trump.  Nobody involved in the election outside the top of the ticket argued that their own election was the result of fraud.  The results for down-ballot races closely mirror the same results at the highest level.  There are processes for preventing fraud prior to the election, Democrats offered money to increase election security, and the existing state government officials many of whom were Republican confirmed that the election was free, fair and accurate.

What Constitutional principle were they demonstrating in favor of? 

Meanwhile, we accept that governments exist to secure life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.  BLM protesters argue that police violence unfairly targets innocent members of their community - literally denying them life and the freedom of movement that white Americans take for granted. 

Both protests made me uncomfortable - BLM because American has failed to deliver on the promise of equal treatment under the law.  The 'Stop the Steal' makes me uncomfortable because clearly millions of self-styled 'Patriots' are willing to abandon the rule of law and Democratic government to ensure their preferred ruler is installed. 

Democracy doesn't exist to give the veneer of respectability to autocracy - it exists to ensure the will of the people is maintained.  Fortunately, in this country we have strong protections for the minority.  Many of those protections have been under assault by the Trump administration, but I don't expect that to continue under Biden.  Nobody is coming for your guns.  Democrats aren't trying to repeal the Constitution.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgNzK9dWsAEEBr6.jpg)

Black Lives Matter is factually wrong about their claims.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/07/03/police-black-killings-homicide-rates-race-injustice-column/3235072001/

Breaking into the Capitol building was bad, but the protest was legitimate from a 1st Amendment perspective. BLM and Antifa have that right as well, as long as they don't break the law either.
People making mealy mouthed excuses about "whataboutism" miss the forest for the trees. Excusing one set of riots and condemning others weakens the argument that X riot was bad.

Furthermore, for my own part at least, I would actually agree with the BLM protests as well (maybe even the riots as well, or at least understand why they happen), if they weren't based almost entirely on pure bullshit and they didn't go out of their way to assault, antagonize and sometimes MURDER people, as well as destroy working people's businesses and private property. People have a right to protest and a right to be angry if they aren't being heard. My issue with them is that they're a clusterfuck of chaos and destruction targeted at ordinary people and based largely on lies and misinformation, not that I oppose people ever protesting or even loosing their shit if they're truly being abused and ignored by the system, which to an extend they arguably might be, just not the way they claim it to be.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 08, 2021, 04:05:44 PM
https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159634/#msg1159634

That's just one instance of someone calling them patriots. If that doesn't sound like an endorsement to you, then I don't know if you speak English motherfucker.

Not to mention the youtube crackpot links that keep egging on this BS. I don't need to link you to every instance, do I?

Then again, why am I expecting any of you to not be lying idiots.

Damn, you found the most sarcastic poster on the boards calling them "Patriots" after several others insisted on referring to them as "Insurrectionists" in prior posts. You really got me on that one. I guess this means we ALL now supported people storming the Capitol 100% with zero reservations, and agree entirely that it was a brilliant idea cuz ONE guy called them "Patriots" at one point. Like people can't be "Patriots" and do stupid misguided shit at the same time.

Damn right they are patriots.

Whats wrong with you people, how are you ok with the mass destruction of the middle class of your own country and think that fucking $600 covers all the damages.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: deadDMwalking on January 08, 2021, 04:08:37 PM
I stand corrected. Do you think her claim was accurate? That 25% of Americans are deplorable?

I think that's an interesting question.  There are a couple of definitions for the word - (1)deserving strong condemnation (2)shockingly bad in quality.  For the use of the first definition, I think that the mob attacking the capitol deserve strong condemnation, so I think it's fair to say that I find them deplorable.

And since Trump only won 46% of the vote in 2016, I certainly wouldn't call 'half of his supporters' 25% of the population - only 23%.  But that's just math. 

But let's take a look at a recent poll (https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2021-01/america-united-in-opposition-to-the-pro-trump-mob-assaulting-the-capitol-6-1-2021.pdf):

Quote from: Five Thirty Eight
Polls so far — and we are still very early in this news cycle — have found that a solid majority of Americans opposed the unrest in Washington, D.C. In a YouGov poll, 71 percent of registered voters opposed the “storming of the Capitol” (63 percent of them “strongly”), and 62 percent viewed it as “a threat to democracy.” Similarly, 70 percent of respondents to an Ipsos poll opposed “the protesters who broke into the Capitol.” And, according to a Morning Consult/Politico survey, 59 percent of registered voters think the perpetrators should be viewed as “domestic terrorists.”

However, a not-small 19 percent of Ipsos respondents said that they supported the rioters. In the YouGov poll, 21 percent said the same (including 14 percent who strongly supported storming the Capitol), and 32 percent did not believe that the occupation constituted a threat to democracy. Those who backed it were disproportionately Republican: 45 percent of GOP voters supported the siege, while 43 percent opposed it.

If we can agree that the mob deserves 'strong condemnation', and 45% of GOP voters support the mob, that'd work out to 21% of Americans. 

I think I'm comfortable with saying that it's deplorable that 21% of American support this type of violence.  I'm less comfortable with saying 'they're deplorable', but that has more to do with talking about the whole person.  I'm sure some of those people are obnoxious alcoholic abusers that have raped their own children, and it'd be pretty hard to find them redeemable in any way, and some of them are god-fearing pillars of their community active in social outreach programs that do good things even though they have some reprehensible beliefs.  But at the moment, I'm thinking that an off-the-cuff comment about how terrible some of the people who support Trump are, I don't find it particularly inaccurate. 

I don't know if Clinton provided any more clarity to her remarks, but I do think that some beliefs (like white supremacy and islamophobia) qualify as 'shockingly bad in quality', and from that perspective, those who hold them could be referred to as 'deplorable'.  Again, I don't think that EXACTLY HALF of Trump supporters qualify under that definition, but if that's somewhere between 25-45%, calling it 'half' isn't too inexcusable an exaggeration.  So, I don't think that the comment itself is necessarily wrong - just some people were upset that she was painting with too broad a brush. 

But yeah, laying aside all nuance and discussion of semantics, I would agree that some Trump supporters are deplorable. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 08, 2021, 04:14:43 PM
https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159634/#msg1159634

That's just one instance of someone calling them patriots. If that doesn't sound like an endorsement to you, then I don't know if you speak English motherfucker.

Not to mention the youtube crackpot links that keep egging on this BS. I don't need to link you to every instance, do I?

Then again, why am I expecting any of you to not be lying idiots.

Damn, you found the most sarcastic poster on the boards calling them "Patriots" after several others insisted on referring to them as "Insurrectionists" in prior posts. You really got me on that one. I guess this means we ALL now supported people storming the Capitol 100% with zero reservations, and agree entirely that it was a brilliant idea cuz ONE guy called them "Patriots" at one point. Like people can't be "Patriots" and do stupid misguided shit at the same time.

Damn right they are patriots.

Whats wrong with you people, how are you ok with the mass destruction of the middle class of your own country and think that fucking $600 covers all the damages.

I don't. I think Covid has been politicized in order to shift massive amounts of wealth from the middle class to the big corps.

I also don't think the DC riot was 1. About that. They specifically were there to protest the election and the appearance of impropriety that was dismissed and ridiculed by the media and politicians and 2. A good way to accomplish that goal.

It was mob mentality emotional venting. Just like BLM/Antifa.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 08, 2021, 04:17:24 PM

What are the statistics on Demos not condemning/supporting BLM riots strongly enough? Condoning that shit is deplorable as well.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 08, 2021, 04:21:24 PM
I stand corrected. Do you think her claim was accurate? That 25% of Americans are deplorable?

I think that's an interesting question.  There are a couple of definitions for the word - (1)deserving strong condemnation (2)shockingly bad in quality.  For the use of the first definition, I think that the mob attacking the capitol deserve strong condemnation, so I think it's fair to say that I find them deplorable.

And since Trump only won 46% of the vote in 2016, I certainly wouldn't call 'half of his supporters' 25% of the population - only 23%.  But that's just math. 

But let's take a look at a recent poll (https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2021-01/america-united-in-opposition-to-the-pro-trump-mob-assaulting-the-capitol-6-1-2021.pdf):

Quote from: Five Thirty Eight
Polls so far — and we are still very early in this news cycle — have found that a solid majority of Americans opposed the unrest in Washington, D.C. In a YouGov poll, 71 percent of registered voters opposed the “storming of the Capitol” (63 percent of them “strongly”), and 62 percent viewed it as “a threat to democracy.” Similarly, 70 percent of respondents to an Ipsos poll opposed “the protesters who broke into the Capitol.” And, according to a Morning Consult/Politico survey, 59 percent of registered voters think the perpetrators should be viewed as “domestic terrorists.”

However, a not-small 19 percent of Ipsos respondents said that they supported the rioters. In the YouGov poll, 21 percent said the same (including 14 percent who strongly supported storming the Capitol), and 32 percent did not believe that the occupation constituted a threat to democracy. Those who backed it were disproportionately Republican: 45 percent of GOP voters supported the siege, while 43 percent opposed it.

If we can agree that the mob deserves 'strong condemnation', and 45% of GOP voters support the mob, that'd work out to 21% of Americans. 

I think I'm comfortable with saying that it's deplorable that 21% of American support this type of violence.  I'm less comfortable with saying 'they're deplorable', but that has more to do with talking about the whole person.  I'm sure some of those people are obnoxious alcoholic abusers that have raped their own children, and it'd be pretty hard to find them redeemable in any way, and some of them are god-fearing pillars of their community active in social outreach programs that do good things even though they have some reprehensible beliefs.  But at the moment, I'm thinking that an off-the-cuff comment about how terrible some of the people who support Trump are, I don't find it particularly inaccurate. 

I don't know if Clinton provided any more clarity to her remarks, but I do think that some beliefs (like white supremacy and islamophobia) qualify as 'shockingly bad in quality', and from that perspective, those who hold them could be referred to as 'deplorable'.  Again, I don't think that EXACTLY HALF of Trump supporters qualify under that definition, but if that's somewhere between 25-45%, calling it 'half' isn't too inexcusable an exaggeration.  So, I don't think that the comment itself is necessarily wrong - just some people were upset that she was painting with too broad a brush. 

But yeah, laying aside all nuance and discussion of semantics, I would agree that some Trump supporters are deplorable.

You are making some incredible leaps in order to connect all those dots. For one example, it's not clear that someone who supports the riots is necessarily a phobe or an ist, or *rolleyes* a child abuser. And all to come to a rather weak reply that "some" are deplorable.

I'm sure some amount of BLM supporters are child rapists or wife beaters or jaywalkers.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 08, 2021, 04:43:26 PM
https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159634/#msg1159634

That's just one instance of someone calling them patriots. If that doesn't sound like an endorsement to you, then I don't know if you speak English motherfucker.

Not to mention the youtube crackpot links that keep egging on this BS. I don't need to link you to every instance, do I?

Then again, why am I expecting any of you to not be lying idiots.

Damn, you found the most sarcastic poster on the boards calling them "Patriots" after several others insisted on referring to them as "Insurrectionists" in prior posts. You really got me on that one. I guess this means we ALL now supported people storming the Capitol 100% with zero reservations, and agree entirely that it was a brilliant idea cuz ONE guy called them "Patriots" at one point. Like people can't be "Patriots" and do stupid misguided shit at the same time.

A: "Rioting is wrong."
B: "But they didz it too!"

I think AOC said it best: The whole point of protesting is to make people uncomfortable

(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/55777165/shes-right-you-know.jpg)

Right, because people here haven't been justifying the capitol riots by invoking "but they did it first mommy!" I don't know what forum you've been reading. Come back to earth son.

No, they haven't. EVERYONE who's brought up anything approaching a "justification" of the capitol protests has been more nuanced than that, and no one has come out and outright justified it (with the possible exception of Spinachcat, who came out saying he was "proud" of them at one point in the other thread), merely attempted to explain the causes leading up it.

This was SHARK on the other thread:

Quote from: SHARK
*Thousands* of American patriots all singing the National Anthem as more patriots storm the Capital building!

Huge chants of "OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE!"

More chanting, "USA! USA! USA!"

Hundreds of Americans pouring inside the doors! Thousands everywhere, surrounding everything!

Fucking LOCK AND LOAD!!! Amazing!
(ref) (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159401/#msg1159401)

Quote from: SHARK
Nancy Polosi's office has been taken. Evidently she left in such haste, she left her computer open. Patriots are reading her Emails right now, and searching her computer.

Capital Police have attempted to use mace, tear gas and batons. Whistles blowing loudly, all to no avail. Tens of thousands of Patriots marching everywhere. American flags waving like great forests. Other scenes show police merely standing by, watching as Patriots march and pour about. Police do not seem eager to be violent in general.

Thundering roars of USA! USA! USA!

More singing of the National Anthem! Thousands singing all in unison!

Entire Capital building looks like it is overwhelmed and thoroughly occupied by Patriots!

So many huge crowds everywhere! Men, women, all chanting!

MAGA!
(ref) (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159415/#msg1159415)

Yeah, I forgot about that post. Still doesn't change the fact that people who were actually discussing the protest, as opposed to just bring up the news of the day while cheering for their side, gave far more nuanced reasons than "but they did it first!", which was the actual point.

Greetings!

Exactly, my friend! I watched several live videos, each covering some of the same scenes, and some with different aspects. The first video I posted in this thread, here, had coverage of the Save America rally, and President Trump's speech. Very interesting, cool, and it was inspiring.

Most of the witnesses and reporters on the scene described hundreds of thousands of American patriots attending--most likely well over a million people attending. It looked amazing and awe inspiring in my view.

There were something like, I don't know, several hundred, maybe a few thousand people that specifically stormed into the Capital building. Out of a million people attending.

I think it is tragic that several people died during the event. I think that political violence is a tragic and terrible--and as I have explained to my friends, regardless of how righteous someone may feel such violence is necessary--it will still be tragic, terrible, and horrifying for everyone involved. Take a look at our own American Revolution and the American Civil War. Look at the British Civil War, the war between Parliament and the King, look at the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution, not to mention the civil wars and political struggles in the twilight of the Republic during ancient Rome--and in more modern times as well, the Troubles in Ireland, and the civil war in Ukraine. Terrible atrocities, huge numbers of people slaughtered, imprisoned, tortured, starved, crushed, impoverished and oppressed. Good, bad, and indifferent, young and old, men, women, and children. The blood and fire covered everyone.

Civil War is terrible, and I certainly do not want to see America go into a civil war.

And you're quite right. Patriots can do stupid things too, just like other people. Protesting is good, and a right that we have under our Constitutional Republic. The whole "Mob mentality" thing can--and often does--get swept up and out of control. Anyone that has ever been in a *really large* group, there can definitely be felt a kind of energy, and it can definitely influence people to do things without thinking. Shifting from protesting to *rioting* by some of the patriots attending the events in Washington, DC, was unfortunate.

Meanwhile, as you and others have commented, none of these events and responses are surprising. The Marxist Democrats have applauded and SUPPORTED political violence and "Mostly Peaceful Protests" for months now. Lots of money given to BLM and Antifa by Democrats, politicians, the media, celebrities, all along while being justified and glorified. None of these fucking corrupt Democrat politicians shed a tear or screeched about "Insurrection!" when cities all across America were being burned to the ground and good Americans hunted down and beaten, robbed, assaulted, and killed. FOR MONTHS. There's always nuances, and context. The monstrous hypocrisy of the corrupt, Marxist Democrats is absolutely disgusting. Why was the siege of the Federal Courthouse in Portland allowed to go on--for months--and this riot at the Capital building reacted to and ended within hours? Somehow, the Portland courthouse siege wasn't viewed as an "Insurrection!"--but the unarmed rioting at the Capital buiding in DC is an "Insurrection"? The DC event was not a coup or an insurrection--it was a rally, and then a protest. The Marxist Democrats in this country can continue with their hypocrisy, their censorship, their oppression, their fraud, lies and corruption, and their subversion of our Constitutional Republic--and somehow, patriotic Americans everywhere are just expected to get on their knees and swallow it down?

I don't think that is how it will go down. The DC protest and riot is a symptom of what is to come.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 08, 2021, 04:48:35 PM
I don't. I think Covid has been politicized in order to shift massive amounts of wealth from the middle class to the big corps.

I also don't think the DC riot was 1. About that. They specifically were there to protest the election and the appearance of impropriety that was dismissed and ridiculed by the media and politicians and 2. A good way to accomplish that goal.

It was mob mentality emotional venting. Just like BLM/Antifa.

What is a good way to accomplish anything when the court system is corrupt, your elections are corrupt and your media is corrupt?

I mean for those people that can not place a direct call to Nancy?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 08, 2021, 05:03:46 PM
What is a good way to accomplish anything when the court system is corrupt, your elections are corrupt and your media is corrupt?

I mean for those people that can not place a direct call to Nancy?

I don't know, like, not voting for the same type of people who feed their constituents to the corporations?  Just because they use wedge issues to pander to voters, doesn't mean they have the best interests at heart.   
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 08, 2021, 05:20:28 PM
What is a good way to accomplish anything when the court system is corrupt, your elections are corrupt and your media is corrupt?

I mean for those people that can not place a direct call to Nancy?

I don't know, like, not voting for the same type of people who feed their constituents to the corporations?  Just because they use wedge issues to pander to voters, doesn't mean they have the best interests at heart.

You missed the corrupt elections bit, right?

Except, of course, for Cobb county.  Those guys know how to run an election.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 08, 2021, 05:23:03 PM
It just came to me that the best way to stop things like this happening again would be more gun regulation.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 08, 2021, 05:33:09 PM
I don't. I think Covid has been politicized in order to shift massive amounts of wealth from the middle class to the big corps.

I also don't think the DC riot was 1. About that. They specifically were there to protest the election and the appearance of impropriety that was dismissed and ridiculed by the media and politicians and 2. A good way to accomplish that goal.

It was mob mentality emotional venting. Just like BLM/Antifa.

What is a good way to accomplish anything when the court system is corrupt, your elections are corrupt and your media is corrupt?

I mean for those people that can not place a direct call to Nancy?

There are a couple options off the top of my head. Not mutually exclusive, of course.
1. Passive resistance. Stop participaing in the corrupt process. And I mean not voting and not paying any taxes. If enough people stopped rewarding the machine, it would grind to a halt.
2. Active resistance. Arguably what the DC protest should have been. Get enough people out there making their voices heard, and sway public opinion towards your side with good arguments and behavior that does not make your side look like crazies. I'm looking at you, buckskin dude with the horned hat.
3. Create alternate media. This is already happening and the mainstream media are getting clobbered over it.



Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 08, 2021, 05:58:20 PM
I don't. I think Covid has been politicized in order to shift massive amounts of wealth from the middle class to the big corps.

I also don't think the DC riot was 1. About that. They specifically were there to protest the election and the appearance of impropriety that was dismissed and ridiculed by the media and politicians and 2. A good way to accomplish that goal.

It was mob mentality emotional venting. Just like BLM/Antifa.

What is a good way to accomplish anything when the court system is corrupt, your elections are corrupt and your media is corrupt?

I mean for those people that can not place a direct call to Nancy?

There are a couple options off the top of my head. Not mutually exclusive, of course.
1. Passive resistance. Stop participaing in the corrupt process. And I mean not voting and not paying any taxes. If enough people stopped rewarding the machine, it would grind to a halt.
2. Active resistance. Arguably what the DC protest should have been. Get enough people out there making their voices heard, and sway public opinion towards your side with good arguments and behavior that does not make your side look like crazies. I'm looking at you, buckskin dude with the horned hat.
3. Create alternate media. This is already happening and the mainstream media are getting clobbered over it.

Do you know how hard it is for a normal person to do any kind of tax avoision.

What are you going to do ask your boss to pay you in cash under the table?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 08, 2021, 05:59:57 PM
https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159634/#msg1159634

That's just one instance of someone calling them patriots. If that doesn't sound like an endorsement to you, then I don't know if you speak English motherfucker.

Not to mention the youtube crackpot links that keep egging on this BS. I don't need to link you to every instance, do I?

Then again, why am I expecting any of you to not be lying idiots.

Damn, you found the most sarcastic poster on the boards calling them "Patriots" after several others insisted on referring to them as "Insurrectionists" in prior posts. You really got me on that one. I guess this means we ALL now supported people storming the Capitol 100% with zero reservations, and agree entirely that it was a brilliant idea cuz ONE guy called them "Patriots" at one point. Like people can't be "Patriots" and do stupid misguided shit at the same time.

Damn right they are patriots.

Whats wrong with you people, how are you ok with the mass destruction of the middle class of your own country and think that fucking $600 covers all the damages.
Do you have a color key? You're not a moderator or administrator, so what does your red text mean? Is it just another shade of sarcastic bullshit, or something else?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 08, 2021, 06:03:40 PM
https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159634/#msg1159634

That's just one instance of someone calling them patriots. If that doesn't sound like an endorsement to you, then I don't know if you speak English motherfucker.

Not to mention the youtube crackpot links that keep egging on this BS. I don't need to link you to every instance, do I?

Then again, why am I expecting any of you to not be lying idiots.

Damn, you found the most sarcastic poster on the boards calling them "Patriots" after several others insisted on referring to them as "Insurrectionists" in prior posts. You really got me on that one. I guess this means we ALL now supported people storming the Capitol 100% with zero reservations, and agree entirely that it was a brilliant idea cuz ONE guy called them "Patriots" at one point. Like people can't be "Patriots" and do stupid misguided shit at the same time.

A: "Rioting is wrong."
B: "But they didz it too!"

I think AOC said it best: The whole point of protesting is to make people uncomfortable

(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/55777165/shes-right-you-know.jpg)

Right, because people here haven't been justifying the capitol riots by invoking "but they did it first mommy!" I don't know what forum you've been reading. Come back to earth son.

No, they haven't. EVERYONE who's brought up anything approaching a "justification" of the capitol protests has been more nuanced than that, and no one has come out and outright justified it (with the possible exception of Spinachcat, who came out saying he was "proud" of them at one point in the other thread), merely attempted to explain the causes leading up it.

This was SHARK on the other thread:

Quote from: SHARK
*Thousands* of American patriots all singing the National Anthem as more patriots storm the Capital building!

Huge chants of "OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE!"

More chanting, "USA! USA! USA!"

Hundreds of Americans pouring inside the doors! Thousands everywhere, surrounding everything!

Fucking LOCK AND LOAD!!! Amazing!
(ref) (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159401/#msg1159401)

Quote from: SHARK
Nancy Polosi's office has been taken. Evidently she left in such haste, she left her computer open. Patriots are reading her Emails right now, and searching her computer.

Capital Police have attempted to use mace, tear gas and batons. Whistles blowing loudly, all to no avail. Tens of thousands of Patriots marching everywhere. American flags waving like great forests. Other scenes show police merely standing by, watching as Patriots march and pour about. Police do not seem eager to be violent in general.

Thundering roars of USA! USA! USA!

More singing of the National Anthem! Thousands singing all in unison!

Entire Capital building looks like it is overwhelmed and thoroughly occupied by Patriots!

So many huge crowds everywhere! Men, women, all chanting!

MAGA!
(ref) (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159415/#msg1159415)

Yeah, I forgot about that post. Still doesn't change the fact that people who were actually discussing the protest, as opposed to just bring up the news of the day while cheering for their side, gave far more nuanced reasons than "but they did it first!", which was the actual point.

Greetings!

Exactly, my friend! I watched several live videos, each covering some of the same scenes, and some with different aspects. The first video I posted in this thread, here, had coverage of the Save America rally, and President Trump's speech. Very interesting, cool, and it was inspiring.

Most of the witnesses and reporters on the scene described hundreds of thousands of American patriots attending--most likely well over a million people attending. It looked amazing and awe inspiring in my view.

There were something like, I don't know, several hundred, maybe a few thousand people that specifically stormed into the Capital building. Out of a million people attending.

I think it is tragic that several people died during the event. I think that political violence is a tragic and terrible--and as I have explained to my friends, regardless of how righteous someone may feel such violence is necessary--it will still be tragic, terrible, and horrifying for everyone involved. Take a look at our own American Revolution and the American Civil War. Look at the British Civil War, the war between Parliament and the King, look at the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution, not to mention the civil wars and political struggles in the twilight of the Republic during ancient Rome--and in more modern times as well, the Troubles in Ireland, and the civil war in Ukraine. Terrible atrocities, huge numbers of people slaughtered, imprisoned, tortured, starved, crushed, impoverished and oppressed. Good, bad, and indifferent, young and old, men, women, and children. The blood and fire covered everyone.

Civil War is terrible, and I certainly do not want to see America go into a civil war.

And you're quite right. Patriots can do stupid things too, just like other people. Protesting is good, and a right that we have under our Constitutional Republic. The whole "Mob mentality" thing can--and often does--get swept up and out of control. Anyone that has ever been in a *really large* group, there can definitely be felt a kind of energy, and it can definitely influence people to do things without thinking. Shifting from protesting to *rioting* by some of the patriots attending the events in Washington, DC, was unfortunate.

Meanwhile, as you and others have commented, none of these events and responses are surprising. The Marxist Democrats have applauded and SUPPORTED political violence and "Mostly Peaceful Protests" for months now. Lots of money given to BLM and Antifa by Democrats, politicians, the media, celebrities, all along while being justified and glorified. None of these fucking corrupt Democrat politicians shed a tear or screeched about "Insurrection!" when cities all across America were being burned to the ground and good Americans hunted down and beaten, robbed, assaulted, and killed. FOR MONTHS. There's always nuances, and context. The monstrous hypocrisy of the corrupt, Marxist Democrats is absolutely disgusting. Why was the siege of the Federal Courthouse in Portland allowed to go on--for months--and this riot at the Capital building reacted to and ended within hours? Somehow, the Portland courthouse siege wasn't viewed as an "Insurrection!"--but the unarmed rioting at the Capital buiding in DC is an "Insurrection"? The DC event was not a coup or an insurrection--it was a rally, and then a protest. The Marxist Democrats in this country can continue with their hypocrisy, their censorship, their oppression, their fraud, lies and corruption, and their subversion of our Constitutional Republic--and somehow, patriotic Americans everywhere are just expected to get on their knees and swallow it down?

I don't think that is how it will go down. The DC protest and riot is a symptom of what is to come.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
You are so full of shit. This post of yours is a nice weasel-worded way for you to back away from your more traitorous and vile speech though, so congratulations on at least kicking some dirt over your pile of shit this time.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: myleftnut on January 08, 2021, 06:15:47 PM
Video of Trumpists cancelling Lyndsey Graham hard. Ignore the guy at the beginning he’s kind of a twat.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6xSAutN3su8
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 08, 2021, 06:18:24 PM
I don't. I think Covid has been politicized in order to shift massive amounts of wealth from the middle class to the big corps.

I also don't think the DC riot was 1. About that. They specifically were there to protest the election and the appearance of impropriety that was dismissed and ridiculed by the media and politicians and 2. A good way to accomplish that goal.

It was mob mentality emotional venting. Just like BLM/Antifa.

What is a good way to accomplish anything when the court system is corrupt, your elections are corrupt and your media is corrupt?

I mean for those people that can not place a direct call to Nancy?

There are a couple options off the top of my head. Not mutually exclusive, of course.
1. Passive resistance. Stop participaing in the corrupt process. And I mean not voting and not paying any taxes. If enough people stopped rewarding the machine, it would grind to a halt.
2. Active resistance. Arguably what the DC protest should have been. Get enough people out there making their voices heard, and sway public opinion towards your side with good arguments and behavior that does not make your side look like crazies. I'm looking at you, buckskin dude with the horned hat.
3. Create alternate media. This is already happening and the mainstream media are getting clobbered over it.

Do you know how hard it is for a normal person to do any kind of tax avoision.

What are you going to do ask your boss to pay you in cash under the table?

There are ways to minimize your participation in the system. And if you're at the point that you think tossing a fire extinguisher at a cop and killing them is acceptable collateral damage (not to assume, but that's part of the fallout of this riot), is working under the table such an extreme suggestion?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 08, 2021, 06:56:54 PM
https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159634/#msg1159634

That's just one instance of someone calling them patriots. If that doesn't sound like an endorsement to you, then I don't know if you speak English motherfucker.

Not to mention the youtube crackpot links that keep egging on this BS. I don't need to link you to every instance, do I?

Then again, why am I expecting any of you to not be lying idiots.

Damn, you found the most sarcastic poster on the boards calling them "Patriots" after several others insisted on referring to them as "Insurrectionists" in prior posts. You really got me on that one. I guess this means we ALL now supported people storming the Capitol 100% with zero reservations, and agree entirely that it was a brilliant idea cuz ONE guy called them "Patriots" at one point. Like people can't be "Patriots" and do stupid misguided shit at the same time.

A: "Rioting is wrong."
B: "But they didz it too!"

I think AOC said it best: The whole point of protesting is to make people uncomfortable

(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/55777165/shes-right-you-know.jpg)

Right, because people here haven't been justifying the capitol riots by invoking "but they did it first mommy!" I don't know what forum you've been reading. Come back to earth son.

No, they haven't. EVERYONE who's brought up anything approaching a "justification" of the capitol protests has been more nuanced than that, and no one has come out and outright justified it (with the possible exception of Spinachcat, who came out saying he was "proud" of them at one point in the other thread), merely attempted to explain the causes leading up it.

This was SHARK on the other thread:

Quote from: SHARK
*Thousands* of American patriots all singing the National Anthem as more patriots storm the Capital building!

Huge chants of "OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE!"

More chanting, "USA! USA! USA!"

Hundreds of Americans pouring inside the doors! Thousands everywhere, surrounding everything!

Fucking LOCK AND LOAD!!! Amazing!
(ref) (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159401/#msg1159401)

Quote from: SHARK
Nancy Polosi's office has been taken. Evidently she left in such haste, she left her computer open. Patriots are reading her Emails right now, and searching her computer.

Capital Police have attempted to use mace, tear gas and batons. Whistles blowing loudly, all to no avail. Tens of thousands of Patriots marching everywhere. American flags waving like great forests. Other scenes show police merely standing by, watching as Patriots march and pour about. Police do not seem eager to be violent in general.

Thundering roars of USA! USA! USA!

More singing of the National Anthem! Thousands singing all in unison!

Entire Capital building looks like it is overwhelmed and thoroughly occupied by Patriots!

So many huge crowds everywhere! Men, women, all chanting!

MAGA!
(ref) (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159415/#msg1159415)

Yeah, I forgot about that post. Still doesn't change the fact that people who were actually discussing the protest, as opposed to just bring up the news of the day while cheering for their side, gave far more nuanced reasons than "but they did it first!", which was the actual point.

Greetings!

Exactly, my friend! I watched several live videos, each covering some of the same scenes, and some with different aspects. The first video I posted in this thread, here, had coverage of the Save America rally, and President Trump's speech. Very interesting, cool, and it was inspiring.

Most of the witnesses and reporters on the scene described hundreds of thousands of American patriots attending--most likely well over a million people attending. It looked amazing and awe inspiring in my view.

There were something like, I don't know, several hundred, maybe a few thousand people that specifically stormed into the Capital building. Out of a million people attending.

I think it is tragic that several people died during the event. I think that political violence is a tragic and terrible--and as I have explained to my friends, regardless of how righteous someone may feel such violence is necessary--it will still be tragic, terrible, and horrifying for everyone involved. Take a look at our own American Revolution and the American Civil War. Look at the British Civil War, the war between Parliament and the King, look at the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution, not to mention the civil wars and political struggles in the twilight of the Republic during ancient Rome--and in more modern times as well, the Troubles in Ireland, and the civil war in Ukraine. Terrible atrocities, huge numbers of people slaughtered, imprisoned, tortured, starved, crushed, impoverished and oppressed. Good, bad, and indifferent, young and old, men, women, and children. The blood and fire covered everyone.

Civil War is terrible, and I certainly do not want to see America go into a civil war.

And you're quite right. Patriots can do stupid things too, just like other people. Protesting is good, and a right that we have under our Constitutional Republic. The whole "Mob mentality" thing can--and often does--get swept up and out of control. Anyone that has ever been in a *really large* group, there can definitely be felt a kind of energy, and it can definitely influence people to do things without thinking. Shifting from protesting to *rioting* by some of the patriots attending the events in Washington, DC, was unfortunate.

Meanwhile, as you and others have commented, none of these events and responses are surprising. The Marxist Democrats have applauded and SUPPORTED political violence and "Mostly Peaceful Protests" for months now. Lots of money given to BLM and Antifa by Democrats, politicians, the media, celebrities, all along while being justified and glorified. None of these fucking corrupt Democrat politicians shed a tear or screeched about "Insurrection!" when cities all across America were being burned to the ground and good Americans hunted down and beaten, robbed, assaulted, and killed. FOR MONTHS. There's always nuances, and context. The monstrous hypocrisy of the corrupt, Marxist Democrats is absolutely disgusting. Why was the siege of the Federal Courthouse in Portland allowed to go on--for months--and this riot at the Capital building reacted to and ended within hours? Somehow, the Portland courthouse siege wasn't viewed as an "Insurrection!"--but the unarmed rioting at the Capital buiding in DC is an "Insurrection"? The DC event was not a coup or an insurrection--it was a rally, and then a protest. The Marxist Democrats in this country can continue with their hypocrisy, their censorship, their oppression, their fraud, lies and corruption, and their subversion of our Constitutional Republic--and somehow, patriotic Americans everywhere are just expected to get on their knees and swallow it down?

I don't think that is how it will go down. The DC protest and riot is a symptom of what is to come.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

From what I've seen and heard there was far more to this rally and the protests than the people who entered the Capitol. I was watching a video someone posted in the other thread last night (below), of a woman who went to the protest, but stayed outside the building, and she recounted her experiences of the event, how there were thousands of people there from all walks of life, backgrounds and even ethnicities (contrary to the frequent claims of "white privilege" that have been trending in leftist social media--implying that this was all white people)--she even saw pair of old grannies all dressed up, like they were going to church storming the Capitol and she was inspired by the sight and just kept going. And despite the media focus on the violence and the tragedy that happened inside, she said that the VAST majority of the protest was peaceful and lively, full of people chanting and being cool with one another, in a great atmosphere of sharing and joy--nothing like how the media has portrayed it.

Even in the clips of people inside the Capitol you can see how these people were non-aggressive and just goofing around, taking selfies with the cops or playing around with podiums and stuff. There's a stark contrast between that and the images of burning cities that took place in some of the BLM protests. Breaking into the Capitol Building was certainly ill advised and horrible optics, which led to a terrible tragedy, but to pretend that it was somehow worse or even in equal footing to some of the stuff that happened in numerous leftist protests is absurd. If anything the seat of the government is PRECISELY where you're supposed to protest--not at the cities, burning buildings and looting stores, but at the place where the lawmakers who have consistently failed the American public are at. THOSE are the people who need to answer for the state of the nation, not innocent people in the streets or store owners. But now protesting at the Capitol is being portrayed as worse (or at least just as bad) than burning down cities and killing innocent people?

I don't know. But we're heading to a dark place. And all of this is part of a symptom of a larger problem and a feeling of deep dissatisfaction in the American public that just going to continue to escalate now that they're talking of clamping down on this sort of thing, and more people are being silenced all across social media, purging their voices and crushing dissent. And there's only one direction that ever goes throughout history.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 08, 2021, 07:01:04 PM
Joe Biden taking this opportunity to stoke racial hatred and division.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErP2RpsUcAAc8H-?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 08, 2021, 07:01:05 PM
What is a good way to accomplish anything when the court system is corrupt, your elections are corrupt and your media is corrupt?

I mean for those people that can not place a direct call to Nancy?

I don't know, like, not voting for the same type of people who feed their constituents to the corporations?  Just because they use wedge issues to pander to voters, doesn't mean they have the best interests at heart.

You mean like the people who voted for AOC after making a lot of noise about making people "uncomfortable" and stuff, then she immediately got corrupted the moment she walked into her new cushy government job with a higher pay bracket and the influence of political creatures, like Nancy Pelosi, who made her her pet?

You don't change the corrupt system, the system changes you.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 08, 2021, 07:02:55 PM
Joe Biden taking this opportunity to stoke racial hatred and division.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErP2RpsUcAAc8H-?format=jpg&name=small)

Getting shot in the neck by a trigger happy guard (who could've just as easily killed another cop or government worker) is part of white privilege.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 08, 2021, 07:05:57 PM
What is a good way to accomplish anything when the court system is corrupt, your elections are corrupt and your media is corrupt?

I mean for those people that can not place a direct call to Nancy?

Within U.S. history, I think the Suffrage Movement and the Civil Rights Movement provide some templates for positive action if your group is denied your rights by the current establishment. Organizing into resistance cells and planning non-violent demonstrations are good -- plus getting out your own media. Some strategy meetings should be secret, but a lot of the resistance should be open and forthright. One can plot out court cases that will maximize the chance of gaining ground and precedent.

More recently, the history of LGBT rights is one template for dealing with cancel culture. Gay people had to regularly deal with losing their jobs if they were found out, being shunned by their neighbors, and otherwise being marginalized.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on January 08, 2021, 07:20:09 PM
What is a good way to accomplish anything when the court system is corrupt, your elections are corrupt and your media is corrupt?

I mean for those people that can not place a direct call to Nancy?

Within U.S. history, I think the Suffrage Movement and the Civil Rights Movement provide some templates for positive action if your group is denied your rights by the current establishment. Organizing into resistance cells and planning non-violent demonstrations are good -- plus getting out your own media. Some strategy meetings should be secret, but a lot of the resistance should be open and forthright. One can plot out court cases that will maximize the chance of gaining ground and precedent.

More recently, the history of LGBT rights is one template for dealing with cancel culture. Gay people had to regularly deal with losing their jobs if they were found out, being shunned by their neighbors, and otherwise being marginalized.

     I think you are dealing with a completely different thing given MUCH greater numbers, and Test levels.   I think it will not be the sort of resistance you want it to be.  Besides, right wingers are your enemy, and I doubt you would take advice from an enemy as to how to succeed.  I have doubts any of them will be taking that advice.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: myleftnut on January 08, 2021, 08:18:13 PM
Joe Biden taking this opportunity to stoke racial hatred and division.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErP2RpsUcAAc8H-?format=jpg&name=small)

Getting shot in the neck by a trigger happy guard (who could've just as easily killed another cop or government worker) is part of white privilege.

I would argue the lady climbing a window while a cop was aiming his gun at her and assuming she’d be fine was at least her thinking she had white privilege.  Looks like she was wrong about that. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 08, 2021, 08:34:10 PM
Do you have a color key? You're not a moderator or administrator, so what does your red text mean? Is it just another shade of sarcastic bullshit, or something else?

Sorry did not realise that it was still your day to be King of the Colour palette.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 08, 2021, 08:39:01 PM
What is a good way to accomplish anything when the court system is corrupt, your elections are corrupt and your media is corrupt?

I mean for those people that can not place a direct call to Nancy?

Within U.S. history, I think the Suffrage Movement and the Civil Rights Movement provide some templates for positive action if your group is denied your rights by the current establishment. Organizing into resistance cells and planning non-violent demonstrations are good -- plus getting out your own media. Some strategy meetings should be secret, but a lot of the resistance should be open and forthright. One can plot out court cases that will maximize the chance of gaining ground and precedent.

More recently, the history of LGBT rights is one template for dealing with cancel culture. Gay people had to regularly deal with losing their jobs if they were found out, being shunned by their neighbors, and otherwise being marginalized.

Your example about LG rights is probably right and mirrors what others are mentioning.  Thank you.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 08, 2021, 08:51:33 PM
Do you have a color key? You're not a moderator or administrator, so what does your red text mean? Is it just another shade of sarcastic bullshit, or something else?

Sorry did not realise that it was still your day to be King of the Colour palette.
So now we have "sarcastic black bold" for a variation on your same old shit.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 08, 2021, 08:59:47 PM
Joe Biden taking this opportunity to stoke racial hatred and division.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErP2RpsUcAAc8H-?format=jpg&name=small)

Getting shot in the neck by a trigger happy guard (who could've just as easily killed another cop or government worker) is part of white privilege.

I would argue the lady climbing a window while a cop was aiming his gun at her and assuming she’d be fine was at least her thinking she had white privilege.  Looks like she was wrong about that.

I would argue that you or I have no idea if she thought she had some kind of white privilige that would protect her. If you have some trans-temporal mind reading power, I'd really like to know about it.

Considering the protest was a diverse crowd, and race was not a direct issue being addressed, I think you have nothing to base your assumption on. I'd be more inclined to think she'd be reliant on her sex, hoping a dude wouldn't shoot a woman
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 08, 2021, 09:10:09 PM
Video of Trumpists cancelling Lyndsey Graham hard. Ignore the guy at the beginning he’s kind of a twat.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6xSAutN3su8

Dude...nobody that wasn't an establishment neocon ever trusted Lyndsey Graham to begin with...

Quote
If we nominate Trump, we will get destroyed.......and we will deserve it.
— Lindsey Graham (@LindseyGrahamSC) May 3, 2016

I love the short attention spans...although maybe that explains all the "it was ok to riot in 2020, just not in 2021" going on.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 08, 2021, 09:11:33 PM
What is a good way to accomplish anything when the court system is corrupt, your elections are corrupt and your media is corrupt?

I mean for those people that can not place a direct call to Nancy?

Within U.S. history, I think the Suffrage Movement and the Civil Rights Movement provide some templates for positive action if your group is denied your rights by the current establishment. Organizing into resistance cells and planning non-violent demonstrations are good -- plus getting out your own media. Some strategy meetings should be secret, but a lot of the resistance should be open and forthright. One can plot out court cases that will maximize the chance of gaining ground and precedent.

More recently, the history of LGBT rights is one template for dealing with cancel culture. Gay people had to regularly deal with losing their jobs if they were found out, being shunned by their neighbors, and otherwise being marginalized.

     I think you are dealing with a completely different thing given MUCH greater numbers, and Test levels.   I think it will not be the sort of resistance you want it to be.  Besides, right wingers are your enemy, and I doubt you would take advice from an enemy as to how to succeed.  I have doubts any of them will be taking that advice.

Whether they take my advice or not, those were the best examples I could think of from our own country. In any conflict, I think one should learn from one's enemies and history - and there are plenty of examples of people in history struggling with hostile and unfair government. Looking more broadly, one could also draw from revolutions in other countries, like how East Germans worked against Soviet rule, the Irish resisted English rule, or how Iranians overthrew the Shah. Those seem harder to apply to the U.S., however.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 08, 2021, 09:15:01 PM
What is a good way to accomplish anything when the court system is corrupt, your elections are corrupt and your media is corrupt?

I mean for those people that can not place a direct call to Nancy?

Within U.S. history, I think the Suffrage Movement and the Civil Rights Movement provide some templates for positive action if your group is denied your rights by the current establishment. Organizing into resistance cells and planning non-violent demonstrations are good -- plus getting out your own media. Some strategy meetings should be secret, but a lot of the resistance should be open and forthright. One can plot out court cases that will maximize the chance of gaining ground and precedent.

More recently, the history of LGBT rights is one template for dealing with cancel culture. Gay people had to regularly deal with losing their jobs if they were found out, being shunned by their neighbors, and otherwise being marginalized.

     I think you are dealing with a completely different thing given MUCH greater numbers, and Test levels.   I think it will not be the sort of resistance you want it to be.  Besides, right wingers are your enemy, and I doubt you would take advice from an enemy as to how to succeed.  I have doubts any of them will be taking that advice.

Whether they take my advice or not, those were the best examples I could think of from our own country. In any conflict, I think one should learn from one's enemies and history - and there are plenty of examples of people in history struggling with hostile and unfair government. Looking more broadly, one could also draw from revolutions in other countries, like how East Germans worked against Soviet rule, the Irish resisted English rule, or how Iranians overthrew the Shah. Those seem harder to apply to the U.S., however.

I notice that all those were resistance against a foreign power...
...well except for the Iran thing, so I guess you are advocating for a right-wing religious takeover?

 :o
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 08, 2021, 09:35:33 PM
I notice that all those were resistance against a foreign power...
...well except for the Iran thing, so I guess you are advocating for a right-wing religious takeover?

 :o

Eh, it was a handful of examples I just pulled from the top of my head as recognizable to most posters. I'm not saying that the Iranian revolution was a good thing -- I'm saying it was *successful*. A better example might be the South Korean overthrow of the military in the 1987, but most posters probably don't know anything about that.

The point is, that *if* one believes one is being denied rights and treated unfairly in the current system, there are precedents in history about how one can organize to push for change. The assault on the Capitol this week doesn't look like any of them, in my opinion. Where this started was Shasarak's comment:

What is a good way to accomplish anything when the court system is corrupt, your elections are corrupt and your media is corrupt?

I think there are real answers to that question.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 08, 2021, 09:58:36 PM
The point is, that *if* one believes one is being denied rights and treated unfairly in the current system, there are precedents in history about how one can organize to push for change. The assault on the Capitol this week doesn't look like any of them, in my opinion. Where this started was Shasarak's comment:

What is a good way to accomplish anything when the court system is corrupt, your elections are corrupt and your media is corrupt?


I think there are real answers to that question.

Yep, as a matter of fact there is an old document at the National Archives that lays out grievances like that and how to handle them when all other options fail...I think it was written by a guy named Jeff-something or other...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 08, 2021, 10:28:55 PM
And since Trump only won 46% of the vote in 2016, I certainly wouldn't call 'half of his supporters' 25% of the population - only 23%.  But that's just math.   
No, it's a failure to understand how to correctly apply math to the real world. In 2016, 63 million voted for Trump, and the US population was 323 million. That's 19.5% of the population. Halve that for the targets of Hillary's hate speech.

Remember that the next time a politician talks about a "mandate". Even the most popular and charismatic president-to-be of all time, the silver-haired and silver-tongued man who was so universally beloved he just hid in his basement during almost the entire campaign and still got the most votes in history by a record-breaking margin, didn't even manage to get 1/4 the country to vote him.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 08, 2021, 10:32:31 PM
Regarding some of the comparisons of the Capitol protests and BLM, and claims of 'White Privilege" from idiots from the "left".

"In june they stormed the white house...Black Lives Matter stromed the White House, they broke the barricades...no one was killed, no one was shot...we had a group of largely people of color storming the White House and none of them were murdered" - Michael Malice

(specific timestamp below; awesome video on the storming of the Capitol, with people who were there, including the woman I posted about before)


It's all about framing, unexamined bias and people's short memory spans. I didn't even remember this. BLM actually stormed the White House and NO ONE called them "Insurgents" back then.

The White House--THE FUCKING WHITE HOUSE!

Not just a state courthouse, or the Capitol Building, but the WHITE. HOUSE.

And no one was shot by a guard with a twitchy trigger finger or called them insurgents and demanded the mass censorship of BLM. No one suggested that BLM should be cut of funding or treated this like a national emergency. Nobody gave a FUCK! But the worst riot in US history was the storming of Capitol?

Rrrrright...

Also, called it...

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/01/08/apple-parler-app-store-ban-possible/
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 08, 2021, 10:39:20 PM
What is a good way to accomplish anything when the court system is corrupt, your elections are corrupt and your media is corrupt?

I mean for those people that can not place a direct call to Nancy?
The next relief bill will have a huge payout for hair stylists.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on January 08, 2021, 11:42:30 PM
What is a good way to accomplish anything when the court system is corrupt, your elections are corrupt and your media is corrupt?

I mean for those people that can not place a direct call to Nancy?

Within U.S. history, I think the Suffrage Movement and the Civil Rights Movement provide some templates for positive action if your group is denied your rights by the current establishment. Organizing into resistance cells and planning non-violent demonstrations are good -- plus getting out your own media. Some strategy meetings should be secret, but a lot of the resistance should be open and forthright. One can plot out court cases that will maximize the chance of gaining ground and precedent.

More recently, the history of LGBT rights is one template for dealing with cancel culture. Gay people had to regularly deal with losing their jobs if they were found out, being shunned by their neighbors, and otherwise being marginalized.

     I think you are dealing with a completely different thing given MUCH greater numbers, and Test levels.   I think it will not be the sort of resistance you want it to be.  Besides, right wingers are your enemy, and I doubt you would take advice from an enemy as to how to succeed.  I have doubts any of them will be taking that advice.

Whether they take my advice or not, those were the best examples I could think of from our own country. In any conflict, I think one should learn from one's enemies and history - and there are plenty of examples of people in history struggling with hostile and unfair government. Looking more broadly, one could also draw from revolutions in other countries, like how East Germans worked against Soviet rule, the Irish resisted English rule, or how Iranians overthrew the Shah. Those seem harder to apply to the U.S., however.

  None of those had anything approaching numbers or guns.  Which is what concerns me.  Brute force can break out, and this is a nation that was born in blood, bathes in blood, and is one day going to drown in blood.  I guess the good news is a whole lot more people these days are pussies (right or left).  The bad news is that does make the people willing to go ham a good deal more dangerous as there is less opposition. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 08, 2021, 11:59:27 PM
  None of those had anything approaching numbers or guns.  Which is what concerns me.  Brute force can break out, and this is a nation that was born in blood, bathes in blood, and is one day going to drown in blood.  I guess the good news is a whole lot more people these days are pussies (right or left).  The bad news is that does make the people willing to go ham a good deal more dangerous as there is less opposition.
Long live the United States of Elizabeth Bathory!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 09, 2021, 12:25:28 AM
Regarding some of the comparisons of the Capitol protests and BLM, and claims of 'White Privilege" from idiots from the "left".

"In june they stormed the white house...Black Lives Matter stromed the White House, they broke the barricades...no one was killed, no one was shot...we had a group of largely people of color storming the White House and none of them were murdered" - Michael Malice

(specific timestamp below; awesome video on the storming of the Capitol, with people who were there, including the woman I posted about before)


It's all about framing, unexamined bias and people's short memory spans. I didn't even remember this. BLM actually stormed the White House and NO ONE called them "Insurgents" back then.

The White House--THE FUCKING WHITE HOUSE!

Not just a state courthouse, or the Capitol Building, but the WHITE. HOUSE.

And no one was shot by a guard with a twitchy trigger finger or called them insurgents and demanded the mass censorship of BLM. No one suggested that BLM should be cut of funding or treated this like a national emergency. Nobody gave a FUCK! But the worst riot in US history was the storming of Capitol?


LOL!

Gonna need some more realiable sources than some random dude on Youtube saying so. Protesting on the street outside the White House and making Trump shit his pants so much that he went into a bunker is not the same thing.

Then again, why am I expecting any of you to not be lying idiots.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 09, 2021, 01:55:42 AM
Regarding some of the comparisons of the Capitol protests and BLM, and claims of 'White Privilege" from idiots from the "left".

"In june they stormed the white house...Black Lives Matter stromed the White House, they broke the barricades...no one was killed, no one was shot...we had a group of largely people of color storming the White House and none of them were murdered" - Michael Malice
...
It's all about framing, unexamined bias and people's short memory spans. I didn't even remember this. BLM actually stormed the White House and NO ONE called them "Insurgents" back then.

Source? As far as I saw, all of the June 2020 protests were *outside* the White House - and they were dispersed with tear gas and stun grenades from the area. Here's some video from the time:




EDITED TO ADD: I guess one could read "broke the barricades" to mean that they pushed past barricades on the street - but as far as I saw, no one got up to the White House building itself, let alone broke inside and looted the place.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Garry G on January 09, 2021, 04:23:43 AM
https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159634/#msg1159634

That's just one instance of someone calling them patriots. If that doesn't sound like an endorsement to you, then I don't know if you speak English motherfucker.

Not to mention the youtube crackpot links that keep egging on this BS. I don't need to link you to every instance, do I?

Then again, why am I expecting any of you to not be lying idiots.

Damn, you found the most sarcastic poster on the boards calling them "Patriots" after several others insisted on referring to them as "Insurrectionists" in prior posts. You really got me on that one. I guess this means we ALL now supported people storming the Capitol 100% with zero reservations, and agree entirely that it was a brilliant idea cuz ONE guy called them "Patriots" at one point. Like people can't be "Patriots" and do stupid misguided shit at the same time.

A: "Rioting is wrong."
B: "But they didz it too!"

I think AOC said it best: The whole point of protesting is to make people uncomfortable

(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/55777165/shes-right-you-know.jpg)

Right, because people here haven't been justifying the capitol riots by invoking "but they did it first mommy!" I don't know what forum you've been reading. Come back to earth son.

No, they haven't. EVERYONE who's brought up anything approaching a "justification" of the capitol protests has been more nuanced than that, and no one has come out and outright justified it (with the possible exception of Spinachcat, who came out saying he was "proud" of them at one point in the other thread), merely attempted to explain the causes leading up it.

This was SHARK on the other thread:

Quote from: SHARK
*Thousands* of American patriots all singing the National Anthem as more patriots storm the Capital building!

Huge chants of "OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE!"

More chanting, "USA! USA! USA!"

Hundreds of Americans pouring inside the doors! Thousands everywhere, surrounding everything!

Fucking LOCK AND LOAD!!! Amazing!
(ref) (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159401/#msg1159401)

Quote from: SHARK
Nancy Polosi's office has been taken. Evidently she left in such haste, she left her computer open. Patriots are reading her Emails right now, and searching her computer.

Capital Police have attempted to use mace, tear gas and batons. Whistles blowing loudly, all to no avail. Tens of thousands of Patriots marching everywhere. American flags waving like great forests. Other scenes show police merely standing by, watching as Patriots march and pour about. Police do not seem eager to be violent in general.

Thundering roars of USA! USA! USA!

More singing of the National Anthem! Thousands singing all in unison!

Entire Capital building looks like it is overwhelmed and thoroughly occupied by Patriots!

So many huge crowds everywhere! Men, women, all chanting!

MAGA!
(ref) (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159415/#msg1159415)

Yeah, I forgot about that post. Still doesn't change the fact that people who were actually discussing the protest, as opposed to just bring up the news of the day while cheering for their side, gave far more nuanced reasons than "but they did it first!", which was the actual point.

Greetings!

Exactly, my friend! I watched several live videos, each covering some of the same scenes, and some with different aspects. The first video I posted in this thread, here, had coverage of the Save America rally, and President Trump's speech. Very interesting, cool, and it was inspiring.

Most of the witnesses and reporters on the scene described hundreds of thousands of American patriots attending--most likely well over a million people attending. It looked amazing and awe inspiring in my view.

There were something like, I don't know, several hundred, maybe a few thousand people that specifically stormed into the Capital building. Out of a million people attending.

I think it is tragic that several people died during the event. I think that political violence is a tragic and terrible--and as I have explained to my friends, regardless of how righteous someone may feel such violence is necessary--it will still be tragic, terrible, and horrifying for everyone involved. Take a look at our own American Revolution and the American Civil War. Look at the British Civil War, the war between Parliament and the King, look at the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution, not to mention the civil wars and political struggles in the twilight of the Republic during ancient Rome--and in more modern times as well, the Troubles in Ireland, and the civil war in Ukraine. Terrible atrocities, huge numbers of people slaughtered, imprisoned, tortured, starved, crushed, impoverished and oppressed. Good, bad, and indifferent, young and old, men, women, and children. The blood and fire covered everyone.

Civil War is terrible, and I certainly do not want to see America go into a civil war.

And you're quite right. Patriots can do stupid things too, just like other people. Protesting is good, and a right that we have under our Constitutional Republic. The whole "Mob mentality" thing can--and often does--get swept up and out of control. Anyone that has ever been in a *really large* group, there can definitely be felt a kind of energy, and it can definitely influence people to do things without thinking. Shifting from protesting to *rioting* by some of the patriots attending the events in Washington, DC, was unfortunate.

Meanwhile, as you and others have commented, none of these events and responses are surprising. The Marxist Democrats have applauded and SUPPORTED political violence and "Mostly Peaceful Protests" for months now. Lots of money given to BLM and Antifa by Democrats, politicians, the media, celebrities, all along while being justified and glorified. None of these fucking corrupt Democrat politicians shed a tear or screeched about "Insurrection!" when cities all across America were being burned to the ground and good Americans hunted down and beaten, robbed, assaulted, and killed. FOR MONTHS. There's always nuances, and context. The monstrous hypocrisy of the corrupt, Marxist Democrats is absolutely disgusting. Why was the siege of the Federal Courthouse in Portland allowed to go on--for months--and this riot at the Capital building reacted to and ended within hours? Somehow, the Portland courthouse siege wasn't viewed as an "Insurrection!"--but the unarmed rioting at the Capital buiding in DC is an "Insurrection"? The DC event was not a coup or an insurrection--it was a rally, and then a protest. The Marxist Democrats in this country can continue with their hypocrisy, their censorship, their oppression, their fraud, lies and corruption, and their subversion of our Constitutional Republic--and somehow, patriotic Americans everywhere are just expected to get on their knees and swallow it down?

I don't think that is how it will go down. The DC protest and riot is a symptom of what is to come.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK


There's never been a. British Civil War
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 09, 2021, 06:06:52 AM
https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159634/#msg1159634

That's just one instance of someone calling them patriots. If that doesn't sound like an endorsement to you, then I don't know if you speak English motherfucker.

Not to mention the youtube crackpot links that keep egging on this BS. I don't need to link you to every instance, do I?

Then again, why am I expecting any of you to not be lying idiots.

Damn, you found the most sarcastic poster on the boards calling them "Patriots" after several others insisted on referring to them as "Insurrectionists" in prior posts. You really got me on that one. I guess this means we ALL now supported people storming the Capitol 100% with zero reservations, and agree entirely that it was a brilliant idea cuz ONE guy called them "Patriots" at one point. Like people can't be "Patriots" and do stupid misguided shit at the same time.

A: "Rioting is wrong."
B: "But they didz it too!"

I think AOC said it best: The whole point of protesting is to make people uncomfortable

(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/55777165/shes-right-you-know.jpg)

Right, because people here haven't been justifying the capitol riots by invoking "but they did it first mommy!" I don't know what forum you've been reading. Come back to earth son.

No, they haven't. EVERYONE who's brought up anything approaching a "justification" of the capitol protests has been more nuanced than that, and no one has come out and outright justified it (with the possible exception of Spinachcat, who came out saying he was "proud" of them at one point in the other thread), merely attempted to explain the causes leading up it.

This was SHARK on the other thread:

Quote from: SHARK
*Thousands* of American patriots all singing the National Anthem as more patriots storm the Capital building!

Huge chants of "OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE!"

More chanting, "USA! USA! USA!"

Hundreds of Americans pouring inside the doors! Thousands everywhere, surrounding everything!

Fucking LOCK AND LOAD!!! Amazing!
(ref) (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159401/#msg1159401)

Quote from: SHARK
Nancy Polosi's office has been taken. Evidently she left in such haste, she left her computer open. Patriots are reading her Emails right now, and searching her computer.

Capital Police have attempted to use mace, tear gas and batons. Whistles blowing loudly, all to no avail. Tens of thousands of Patriots marching everywhere. American flags waving like great forests. Other scenes show police merely standing by, watching as Patriots march and pour about. Police do not seem eager to be violent in general.

Thundering roars of USA! USA! USA!

More singing of the National Anthem! Thousands singing all in unison!

Entire Capital building looks like it is overwhelmed and thoroughly occupied by Patriots!

So many huge crowds everywhere! Men, women, all chanting!

MAGA!
(ref) (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159415/#msg1159415)

Yeah, I forgot about that post. Still doesn't change the fact that people who were actually discussing the protest, as opposed to just bring up the news of the day while cheering for their side, gave far more nuanced reasons than "but they did it first!", which was the actual point.

Greetings!

Exactly, my friend! I watched several live videos, each covering some of the same scenes, and some with different aspects. The first video I posted in this thread, here, had coverage of the Save America rally, and President Trump's speech. Very interesting, cool, and it was inspiring.

Most of the witnesses and reporters on the scene described hundreds of thousands of American patriots attending--most likely well over a million people attending. It looked amazing and awe inspiring in my view.

There were something like, I don't know, several hundred, maybe a few thousand people that specifically stormed into the Capital building. Out of a million people attending.

I think it is tragic that several people died during the event. I think that political violence is a tragic and terrible--and as I have explained to my friends, regardless of how righteous someone may feel such violence is necessary--it will still be tragic, terrible, and horrifying for everyone involved. Take a look at our own American Revolution and the American Civil War. Look at the British Civil War, the war between Parliament and the King, look at the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution, not to mention the civil wars and political struggles in the twilight of the Republic during ancient Rome--and in more modern times as well, the Troubles in Ireland, and the civil war in Ukraine. Terrible atrocities, huge numbers of people slaughtered, imprisoned, tortured, starved, crushed, impoverished and oppressed. Good, bad, and indifferent, young and old, men, women, and children. The blood and fire covered everyone.

Civil War is terrible, and I certainly do not want to see America go into a civil war.

And you're quite right. Patriots can do stupid things too, just like other people. Protesting is good, and a right that we have under our Constitutional Republic. The whole "Mob mentality" thing can--and often does--get swept up and out of control. Anyone that has ever been in a *really large* group, there can definitely be felt a kind of energy, and it can definitely influence people to do things without thinking. Shifting from protesting to *rioting* by some of the patriots attending the events in Washington, DC, was unfortunate.

Meanwhile, as you and others have commented, none of these events and responses are surprising. The Marxist Democrats have applauded and SUPPORTED political violence and "Mostly Peaceful Protests" for months now. Lots of money given to BLM and Antifa by Democrats, politicians, the media, celebrities, all along while being justified and glorified. None of these fucking corrupt Democrat politicians shed a tear or screeched about "Insurrection!" when cities all across America were being burned to the ground and good Americans hunted down and beaten, robbed, assaulted, and killed. FOR MONTHS. There's always nuances, and context. The monstrous hypocrisy of the corrupt, Marxist Democrats is absolutely disgusting. Why was the siege of the Federal Courthouse in Portland allowed to go on--for months--and this riot at the Capital building reacted to and ended within hours? Somehow, the Portland courthouse siege wasn't viewed as an "Insurrection!"--but the unarmed rioting at the Capital buiding in DC is an "Insurrection"? The DC event was not a coup or an insurrection--it was a rally, and then a protest. The Marxist Democrats in this country can continue with their hypocrisy, their censorship, their oppression, their fraud, lies and corruption, and their subversion of our Constitutional Republic--and somehow, patriotic Americans everywhere are just expected to get on their knees and swallow it down?

I don't think that is how it will go down. The DC protest and riot is a symptom of what is to come.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK


There's never been a. British Civil War

Greetings!

I'm sorry. What was that business about Parliament having the King of England executed?

I seem to recall there were armies raised by Parliament that fought against the armies of the King.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Garry G on January 09, 2021, 06:24:50 AM
https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159634/#msg1159634

That's just one instance of someone calling them patriots. If that doesn't sound like an endorsement to you, then I don't know if you speak English motherfucker.

Not to mention the youtube crackpot links that keep egging on this BS. I don't need to link you to every instance, do I?

Then again, why am I expecting any of you to not be lying idiots.

Damn, you found the most sarcastic poster on the boards calling them "Patriots" after several others insisted on referring to them as "Insurrectionists" in prior posts. You really got me on that one. I guess this means we ALL now supported people storming the Capitol 100% with zero reservations, and agree entirely that it was a brilliant idea cuz ONE guy called them "Patriots" at one point. Like people can't be "Patriots" and do stupid misguided shit at the same time.

A: "Rioting is wrong."
B: "But they didz it too!"

I think AOC said it best: The whole point of protesting is to make people uncomfortable

(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/55777165/shes-right-you-know.jpg)

Right, because people here haven't been justifying the capitol riots by invoking "but they did it first mommy!" I don't know what forum you've been reading. Come back to earth son.

No, they haven't. EVERYONE who's brought up anything approaching a "justification" of the capitol protests has been more nuanced than that, and no one has come out and outright justified it (with the possible exception of Spinachcat, who came out saying he was "proud" of them at one point in the other thread), merely attempted to explain the causes leading up it.

This was SHARK on the other thread:

Quote from: SHARK
*Thousands* of American patriots all singing the National Anthem as more patriots storm the Capital building!

Huge chants of "OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE!"

More chanting, "USA! USA! USA!"

Hundreds of Americans pouring inside the doors! Thousands everywhere, surrounding everything!

Fucking LOCK AND LOAD!!! Amazing!
(ref) (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159401/#msg1159401)

Quote from: SHARK
Nancy Polosi's office has been taken. Evidently she left in such haste, she left her computer open. Patriots are reading her Emails right now, and searching her computer.

Capital Police have attempted to use mace, tear gas and batons. Whistles blowing loudly, all to no avail. Tens of thousands of Patriots marching everywhere. American flags waving like great forests. Other scenes show police merely standing by, watching as Patriots march and pour about. Police do not seem eager to be violent in general.

Thundering roars of USA! USA! USA!

More singing of the National Anthem! Thousands singing all in unison!

Entire Capital building looks like it is overwhelmed and thoroughly occupied by Patriots!

So many huge crowds everywhere! Men, women, all chanting!

MAGA!
(ref) (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159415/#msg1159415)

Yeah, I forgot about that post. Still doesn't change the fact that people who were actually discussing the protest, as opposed to just bring up the news of the day while cheering for their side, gave far more nuanced reasons than "but they did it first!", which was the actual point.

Greetings!

Exactly, my friend! I watched several live videos, each covering some of the same scenes, and some with different aspects. The first video I posted in this thread, here, had coverage of the Save America rally, and President Trump's speech. Very interesting, cool, and it was inspiring.

Most of the witnesses and reporters on the scene described hundreds of thousands of American patriots attending--most likely well over a million people attending. It looked amazing and awe inspiring in my view.

There were something like, I don't know, several hundred, maybe a few thousand people that specifically stormed into the Capital building. Out of a million people attending.

I think it is tragic that several people died during the event. I think that political violence is a tragic and terrible--and as I have explained to my friends, regardless of how righteous someone may feel such violence is necessary--it will still be tragic, terrible, and horrifying for everyone involved. Take a look at our own American Revolution and the American Civil War. Look at the British Civil War, the war between Parliament and the King, look at the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution, not to mention the civil wars and political struggles in the twilight of the Republic during ancient Rome--and in more modern times as well, the Troubles in Ireland, and the civil war in Ukraine. Terrible atrocities, huge numbers of people slaughtered, imprisoned, tortured, starved, crushed, impoverished and oppressed. Good, bad, and indifferent, young and old, men, women, and children. The blood and fire covered everyone.

Civil War is terrible, and I certainly do not want to see America go into a civil war.

And you're quite right. Patriots can do stupid things too, just like other people. Protesting is good, and a right that we have under our Constitutional Republic. The whole "Mob mentality" thing can--and often does--get swept up and out of control. Anyone that has ever been in a *really large* group, there can definitely be felt a kind of energy, and it can definitely influence people to do things without thinking. Shifting from protesting to *rioting* by some of the patriots attending the events in Washington, DC, was unfortunate.

Meanwhile, as you and others have commented, none of these events and responses are surprising. The Marxist Democrats have applauded and SUPPORTED political violence and "Mostly Peaceful Protests" for months now. Lots of money given to BLM and Antifa by Democrats, politicians, the media, celebrities, all along while being justified and glorified. None of these fucking corrupt Democrat politicians shed a tear or screeched about "Insurrection!" when cities all across America were being burned to the ground and good Americans hunted down and beaten, robbed, assaulted, and killed. FOR MONTHS. There's always nuances, and context. The monstrous hypocrisy of the corrupt, Marxist Democrats is absolutely disgusting. Why was the siege of the Federal Courthouse in Portland allowed to go on--for months--and this riot at the Capital building reacted to and ended within hours? Somehow, the Portland courthouse siege wasn't viewed as an "Insurrection!"--but the unarmed rioting at the Capital buiding in DC is an "Insurrection"? The DC event was not a coup or an insurrection--it was a rally, and then a protest. The Marxist Democrats in this country can continue with their hypocrisy, their censorship, their oppression, their fraud, lies and corruption, and their subversion of our Constitutional Republic--and somehow, patriotic Americans everywhere are just expected to get on their knees and swallow it down?

I don't think that is how it will go down. The DC protest and riot is a symptom of what is to come.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK


There's never been a. British Civil War

Greetings!

I'm sorry. What was that business about Parliament having the King of England executed?

I seem to recall there were armies raised by Parliament that fought against the armies of the King.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

That'll be the English Civil War in which the English Parliament fought against the King. Now this is connected to the War of the Three Kingdoms but was not a British civil war as it took place before the Act of Union in 1707.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 09, 2021, 07:26:50 AM
LOL!

Gonna need some more realiable sources than some random dude on Youtube saying so. Protesting on the street outside the White House and making Trump shit his pants so much that he went into a bunker is not the same thing.

Then again, why am I expecting any of you to not be lying idiots.

"Trump "shit his pants" therefore it was OK, cuz I'm not biased."

Got it.

LOL!
Then again, why am I expecting any of you to not be lying idiots.

"Everyone saying something I won't bother to refute or even address is lying."

I know.

Regarding some of the comparisons of the Capitol protests and BLM, and claims of 'White Privilege" from idiots from the "left".

"In june they stormed the white house...Black Lives Matter stromed the White House, they broke the barricades...no one was killed, no one was shot...we had a group of largely people of color storming the White House and none of them were murdered" - Michael Malice
...
It's all about framing, unexamined bias and people's short memory spans. I didn't even remember this. BLM actually stormed the White House and NO ONE called them "Insurgents" back then.

Source? As far as I saw, all of the June 2020 protests were *outside* the White House - and they were dispersed with tear gas and stun grenades from the area. Here's some video from the time:




EDITED TO ADD: I guess one could read "broke the barricades" to mean that they pushed past barricades on the street - but as far as I saw, no one got up to the White House building itself, let alone broke inside and looted the place.

There was still a breach and potential threat to the President, and no one was killed, and no one took it seriously, cuz Orange Man Bad.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 09, 2021, 09:01:03 AM
What is a good way to accomplish anything when the court system is corrupt, your elections are corrupt and your media is corrupt?

I mean for those people that can not place a direct call to Nancy?

I don't know, like, not voting for the same type of people who feed their constituents to the corporations?  Just because they use wedge issues to pander to voters, doesn't mean they have the best interests at heart.

We tried that.  Apparently we elected the most evil human being in history*.  Although one would think our excellent news media could have found evidence of that dated before 2015, since the guy has been in the media for the last 40+ years. 

Given your question to Shasarak, I am assuming you supported Donald Trump, right?



*according to the MSM and the established leadership of both major parties.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Larsdangly on January 09, 2021, 10:55:00 AM
So what do the Trump apologists on this site make of the fact that the 'protesters' murdered a cop by crushing his head with fire extinguisher, roamed the capitol with zip ties so they would be ready to take hostages, and left live bombs on the property? The other thread on this subject got locked just as you all were getting close to dealing with the fact that our patriots are cop murdering terrorists. So, how about now?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 09, 2021, 11:10:15 AM
So what do the Trump apologists on this site make of the fact that the 'protesters' murdered a cop by crushing his head with fire extinguisher, roamed the capitol with zip ties so they would be ready to take hostages, and left live bombs on the property? The other thread on this subject got locked just as you all were getting close to dealing with the fact that our patriots are cop murdering terrorists. So, how about now?
In other words, the protests were mostly peaceful.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 09, 2021, 11:28:57 AM
So what do the Trump apologists on this site make of the fact that the 'protesters' murdered a cop by crushing his head with fire extinguisher, roamed the capitol with zip ties so they would be ready to take hostages, and left live bombs on the property? The other thread on this subject got locked just as you all were getting close to dealing with the fact that our patriots are cop murdering terrorists. So, how about now?

No specific details have come out on what actually happened to that cop in the confrontation that resulted on the injuries that led to his death, and I have heard nothing about any "bombs" or people taking hostages. And NOTHING about the video evidence that I've seen posted so far suggests that many of these protesters were even aggressive.

But since you bring it up, what do establishment & BLM apologists on this site make of the fact that BLM 'protesters' murdered multiple cops and innocent people in multiple incidents throughout this year in actual intentional assaults?--Not just wild confrontations that happened during a protest were cops were beating people up (which for all we know could've been what led to the cop who died being hit on the head), but actual people going out of their way to specifically run over cops with a car or seek out Trump supporters to shot them point blank.

And what do they make out of the fact that off duty cops were among the protesters that stormed the Capitol and entered the build--flashing their badges as they did, which likely contributed to how people were able to storm their way into the building in the first place?

https://news.yahoo.com/off-duty-police-officers-among-201522125.html
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Larsdangly on January 09, 2021, 11:36:08 AM
There are  well documented news reports of everything I wrote. If you haven't seen them, it means you have not been interested enough to check. 

Also, the immediate instinct to dodge the question with a mixture of truths, half truths and lies about BLM protests, is exactly what I would expect of the right wing choads who hang out here.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 09, 2021, 12:08:17 PM
Anyone want to comment about the presence of John Earle Sullivan at the protest?

(Whozat, Ghost?)

Oh. He's an activist and photojournalist whose last gig was supporting an Antifa/BLM rally in Provo, Utah.

I'm sure he was there for totally innocent reasons. Really.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 09, 2021, 12:13:19 PM
There are  well documented news reports of everything I wrote. If you haven't seen them, it means you have not been interested enough to check. 

Also, the immediate instinct to dodge the question with a mixture of truths, half truths and lies about BLM protests, is exactly what I would expect of the right wing choads who hang out here.

>Refuses to provide sources
>Dodges the questions
>Accuses others of dodging questions that were actually addressed

Whatever you need to tell yourself.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 09, 2021, 12:13:49 PM
So what do the Trump apologists on this site make of the fact that the 'protesters' murdered a cop by crushing his head with fire extinguisher, roamed the capitol with zip ties so they would be ready to take hostages, and left live bombs on the property? The other thread on this subject got locked just as you all were getting close to dealing with the fact that our patriots are cop murdering terrorists. So, how about now?
In other words, the protests were mostly peaceful.

Greetings!

*Laughing*--brilliant, Pat! ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 09, 2021, 12:22:12 PM
https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159634/#msg1159634

That's just one instance of someone calling them patriots. If that doesn't sound like an endorsement to you, then I don't know if you speak English motherfucker.

Not to mention the youtube crackpot links that keep egging on this BS. I don't need to link you to every instance, do I?

Then again, why am I expecting any of you to not be lying idiots.

Damn, you found the most sarcastic poster on the boards calling them "Patriots" after several others insisted on referring to them as "Insurrectionists" in prior posts. You really got me on that one. I guess this means we ALL now supported people storming the Capitol 100% with zero reservations, and agree entirely that it was a brilliant idea cuz ONE guy called them "Patriots" at one point. Like people can't be "Patriots" and do stupid misguided shit at the same time.

A: "Rioting is wrong."
B: "But they didz it too!"

I think AOC said it best: The whole point of protesting is to make people uncomfortable

(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/55777165/shes-right-you-know.jpg)

Right, because people here haven't been justifying the capitol riots by invoking "but they did it first mommy!" I don't know what forum you've been reading. Come back to earth son.

No, they haven't. EVERYONE who's brought up anything approaching a "justification" of the capitol protests has been more nuanced than that, and no one has come out and outright justified it (with the possible exception of Spinachcat, who came out saying he was "proud" of them at one point in the other thread), merely attempted to explain the causes leading up it.

This was SHARK on the other thread:

Quote from: SHARK
*Thousands* of American patriots all singing the National Anthem as more patriots storm the Capital building!

Huge chants of "OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE!"

More chanting, "USA! USA! USA!"

Hundreds of Americans pouring inside the doors! Thousands everywhere, surrounding everything!

Fucking LOCK AND LOAD!!! Amazing!
(ref) (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159401/#msg1159401)

Quote from: SHARK
Nancy Polosi's office has been taken. Evidently she left in such haste, she left her computer open. Patriots are reading her Emails right now, and searching her computer.

Capital Police have attempted to use mace, tear gas and batons. Whistles blowing loudly, all to no avail. Tens of thousands of Patriots marching everywhere. American flags waving like great forests. Other scenes show police merely standing by, watching as Patriots march and pour about. Police do not seem eager to be violent in general.

Thundering roars of USA! USA! USA!

More singing of the National Anthem! Thousands singing all in unison!

Entire Capital building looks like it is overwhelmed and thoroughly occupied by Patriots!

So many huge crowds everywhere! Men, women, all chanting!

MAGA!
(ref) (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159415/#msg1159415)

Yeah, I forgot about that post. Still doesn't change the fact that people who were actually discussing the protest, as opposed to just bring up the news of the day while cheering for their side, gave far more nuanced reasons than "but they did it first!", which was the actual point.

Greetings!

Exactly, my friend! I watched several live videos, each covering some of the same scenes, and some with different aspects. The first video I posted in this thread, here, had coverage of the Save America rally, and President Trump's speech. Very interesting, cool, and it was inspiring.

Most of the witnesses and reporters on the scene described hundreds of thousands of American patriots attending--most likely well over a million people attending. It looked amazing and awe inspiring in my view.

There were something like, I don't know, several hundred, maybe a few thousand people that specifically stormed into the Capital building. Out of a million people attending.

I think it is tragic that several people died during the event. I think that political violence is a tragic and terrible--and as I have explained to my friends, regardless of how righteous someone may feel such violence is necessary--it will still be tragic, terrible, and horrifying for everyone involved. Take a look at our own American Revolution and the American Civil War. Look at the British Civil War, the war between Parliament and the King, look at the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution, not to mention the civil wars and political struggles in the twilight of the Republic during ancient Rome--and in more modern times as well, the Troubles in Ireland, and the civil war in Ukraine. Terrible atrocities, huge numbers of people slaughtered, imprisoned, tortured, starved, crushed, impoverished and oppressed. Good, bad, and indifferent, young and old, men, women, and children. The blood and fire covered everyone.

Civil War is terrible, and I certainly do not want to see America go into a civil war.

And you're quite right. Patriots can do stupid things too, just like other people. Protesting is good, and a right that we have under our Constitutional Republic. The whole "Mob mentality" thing can--and often does--get swept up and out of control. Anyone that has ever been in a *really large* group, there can definitely be felt a kind of energy, and it can definitely influence people to do things without thinking. Shifting from protesting to *rioting* by some of the patriots attending the events in Washington, DC, was unfortunate.

Meanwhile, as you and others have commented, none of these events and responses are surprising. The Marxist Democrats have applauded and SUPPORTED political violence and "Mostly Peaceful Protests" for months now. Lots of money given to BLM and Antifa by Democrats, politicians, the media, celebrities, all along while being justified and glorified. None of these fucking corrupt Democrat politicians shed a tear or screeched about "Insurrection!" when cities all across America were being burned to the ground and good Americans hunted down and beaten, robbed, assaulted, and killed. FOR MONTHS. There's always nuances, and context. The monstrous hypocrisy of the corrupt, Marxist Democrats is absolutely disgusting. Why was the siege of the Federal Courthouse in Portland allowed to go on--for months--and this riot at the Capital building reacted to and ended within hours? Somehow, the Portland courthouse siege wasn't viewed as an "Insurrection!"--but the unarmed rioting at the Capital buiding in DC is an "Insurrection"? The DC event was not a coup or an insurrection--it was a rally, and then a protest. The Marxist Democrats in this country can continue with their hypocrisy, their censorship, their oppression, their fraud, lies and corruption, and their subversion of our Constitutional Republic--and somehow, patriotic Americans everywhere are just expected to get on their knees and swallow it down?

I don't think that is how it will go down. The DC protest and riot is a symptom of what is to come.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

From what I've seen and heard there was far more to this rally and the protests than the people who entered the Capitol. I was watching a video someone posted in the other thread last night (below), of a woman who went to the protest, but stayed outside the building, and she recounted her experiences of the event, how there were thousands of people there from all walks of life, backgrounds and even ethnicities (contrary to the frequent claims of "white privilege" that have been trending in leftist social media--implying that this was all white people)--she even saw pair of old grannies all dressed up, like they were going to church storming the Capitol and she was inspired by the sight and just kept going. And despite the media focus on the violence and the tragedy that happened inside, she said that the VAST majority of the protest was peaceful and lively, full of people chanting and being cool with one another, in a great atmosphere of sharing and joy--nothing like how the media has portrayed it.

Even in the clips of people inside the Capitol you can see how these people were non-aggressive and just goofing around, taking selfies with the cops or playing around with podiums and stuff. There's a stark contrast between that and the images of burning cities that took place in some of the BLM protests. Breaking into the Capitol Building was certainly ill advised and horrible optics, which led to a terrible tragedy, but to pretend that it was somehow worse or even in equal footing to some of the stuff that happened in numerous leftist protests is absurd. If anything the seat of the government is PRECISELY where you're supposed to protest--not at the cities, burning buildings and looting stores, but at the place where the lawmakers who have consistently failed the American public are at. THOSE are the people who need to answer for the state of the nation, not innocent people in the streets or store owners. But now protesting at the Capitol is being portrayed as worse (or at least just as bad) than burning down cities and killing innocent people?

I don't know. But we're heading to a dark place. And all of this is part of a symptom of a larger problem and a feeling of deep dissatisfaction in the American public that just going to continue to escalate now that they're talking of clamping down on this sort of thing, and more people are being silenced all across social media, purging their voices and crushing dissent. And there's only one direction that ever goes throughout history.



Gretings!

Indeed, I agree my friend. This whole situation is being exploited by the Democrats for a power-grab, making up lists of Trump supporters and Conservatives, censorship and banning, and more fucking oppression.

Fuck them. The cock-sucking Marxists in this country are going to keep pushing, pushing, and pushing.

Don't be surprised then when people start getting flame-throwered and lit the fuck up.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 09, 2021, 12:22:50 PM
So what do the Trump apologists on this site make of the fact that the 'protesters' murdered a cop by crushing his head with fire extinguisher, roamed the capitol with zip ties so they would be ready to take hostages, and left live bombs on the property? The other thread on this subject got locked just as you all were getting close to dealing with the fact that our patriots are cop murdering terrorists. So, how about now?
In other words, the protests were mostly peaceful.

They literally were. But unlike BLM supporters, I am hearing conservative pundits and Trump supporters who were there but did not go in, decry the riot as unacceptable behavior.
Meanwhile we got years of the mainstream media and politicians excuse BLM violence and destruction.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 09, 2021, 12:24:05 PM
There are  well documented news reports of everything I wrote. If you haven't seen them, it means you have not been interested enough to check. 

Also, the immediate instinct to dodge the question with a mixture of truths, half truths and lies about BLM protests, is exactly what I would expect of the right wing choads who hang out here.

>Refuses to provide sources
>Dodges the questions
>Accuses others of dodging questions that were actually addressed

Whatever you need to tell yourself.
You can start with these, from a mix of sources:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/08/politics/us-capitol-riots-arrest-pelosi-desk/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/08/politics/us-capitol-riots-arrest-pelosi-desk/index.html)
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/06/fbi-says-it-is-investigating-suspicious-devices-in-washington.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/06/fbi-says-it-is-investigating-suspicious-devices-in-washington.html)
https://www.dothanfirst.com/alabama-news/alabama-man-faces-federal-charges-for-possessing-molotov-cocktails-in-capitol-riots/ (https://www.dothanfirst.com/alabama-news/alabama-man-faces-federal-charges-for-possessing-molotov-cocktails-in-capitol-riots/)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/capitol-riot-fbi-hostages/2021/01/08/df99ae5a-5202-11eb-83e3-322644d82356_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/capitol-riot-fbi-hostages/2021/01/08/df99ae5a-5202-11eb-83e3-322644d82356_story.html)
https://www.tmz.com/2021/01/08/capitol-rioters-zip-ties-plan-take-hostages-dc/ (https://www.tmz.com/2021/01/08/capitol-rioters-zip-ties-plan-take-hostages-dc/)
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/zip-ties-fbi-capitol-riots-kidnap_n_5ff95b00c5b66f3f795e1069 (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/zip-ties-fbi-capitol-riots-kidnap_n_5ff95b00c5b66f3f795e1069)
https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/news/crime/2021/01/08/zip-ties-tn-thin-blue-line-patch-riot-terrorism-experts/6582674002/ (https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/news/crime/2021/01/08/zip-ties-tn-thin-blue-line-patch-riot-terrorism-experts/6582674002/)
https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/dc/fbi-pipe-bombs-person-wanted-wasington-dc-us-capitol/65-5d4f4e85-ff26-4493-a93b-1c127687a138 (https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/dc/fbi-pipe-bombs-person-wanted-wasington-dc-us-capitol/65-5d4f4e85-ff26-4493-a93b-1c127687a138)
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fbi-50k-reward-pipe-bombs-capitol-riots-rnc-dnc/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fbi-50k-reward-pipe-bombs-capitol-riots-rnc-dnc/)
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55578092 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55578092)
https://abc7news.com/capitol-bomb-explosive-device-us-the/9434813/ (https://abc7news.com/capitol-bomb-explosive-device-us-the/9434813/)
https://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/story/news/crime/2021/01/08/alabama-man-lonnie-coffman-arrested-11-molotov-cocktails-fire-arms/6586697002/ (https://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/story/news/crime/2021/01/08/alabama-man-lonnie-coffman-arrested-11-molotov-cocktails-fire-arms/6586697002/)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 09, 2021, 12:48:40 PM
There are  well documented news reports of everything I wrote. If you haven't seen them, it means you have not been interested enough to check. 

Also, the immediate instinct to dodge the question with a mixture of truths, half truths and lies about BLM protests, is exactly what I would expect of the right wing choads who hang out here.

>Refuses to provide sources
>Dodges the questions
>Accuses others of dodging questions that were actually addressed

Whatever you need to tell yourself.
You can start with these, from a mix of sources:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/08/politics/us-capitol-riots-arrest-pelosi-desk/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/08/politics/us-capitol-riots-arrest-pelosi-desk/index.html)
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/06/fbi-says-it-is-investigating-suspicious-devices-in-washington.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/06/fbi-says-it-is-investigating-suspicious-devices-in-washington.html)
https://www.dothanfirst.com/alabama-news/alabama-man-faces-federal-charges-for-possessing-molotov-cocktails-in-capitol-riots/ (https://www.dothanfirst.com/alabama-news/alabama-man-faces-federal-charges-for-possessing-molotov-cocktails-in-capitol-riots/)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/capitol-riot-fbi-hostages/2021/01/08/df99ae5a-5202-11eb-83e3-322644d82356_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/capitol-riot-fbi-hostages/2021/01/08/df99ae5a-5202-11eb-83e3-322644d82356_story.html)
https://www.tmz.com/2021/01/08/capitol-rioters-zip-ties-plan-take-hostages-dc/ (https://www.tmz.com/2021/01/08/capitol-rioters-zip-ties-plan-take-hostages-dc/)
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/zip-ties-fbi-capitol-riots-kidnap_n_5ff95b00c5b66f3f795e1069 (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/zip-ties-fbi-capitol-riots-kidnap_n_5ff95b00c5b66f3f795e1069)
https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/news/crime/2021/01/08/zip-ties-tn-thin-blue-line-patch-riot-terrorism-experts/6582674002/ (https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/news/crime/2021/01/08/zip-ties-tn-thin-blue-line-patch-riot-terrorism-experts/6582674002/)
https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/dc/fbi-pipe-bombs-person-wanted-wasington-dc-us-capitol/65-5d4f4e85-ff26-4493-a93b-1c127687a138 (https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/dc/fbi-pipe-bombs-person-wanted-wasington-dc-us-capitol/65-5d4f4e85-ff26-4493-a93b-1c127687a138)
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fbi-50k-reward-pipe-bombs-capitol-riots-rnc-dnc/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fbi-50k-reward-pipe-bombs-capitol-riots-rnc-dnc/)
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55578092 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55578092)
https://abc7news.com/capitol-bomb-explosive-device-us-the/9434813/ (https://abc7news.com/capitol-bomb-explosive-device-us-the/9434813/)
https://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/story/news/crime/2021/01/08/alabama-man-lonnie-coffman-arrested-11-molotov-cocktails-fire-arms/6586697002/ (https://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/story/news/crime/2021/01/08/alabama-man-lonnie-coffman-arrested-11-molotov-cocktails-fire-arms/6586697002/)

So one pickup truck with a gun and 11 Molotov Cocktails was found two blocks away and they're still investigating, and the FBI speculates (based on no evidence so far) whether any of the protesters intended to kidnap somebody? The pick up truck thing sounds fucked up and an idiotic move (assuming they weren't just planted there by the cops), but at least the guy didn't even bring them into the building, so nothing happened with them. The feds engaging in idle speculation is a big nothing burger, with a side of nada.

PS: Thanks for making me give CNN clicks with an un-achieved article.  :-
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Larsdangly on January 09, 2021, 01:18:14 PM
No one, including myself, is trying to convince anyone of anything here; we are just expressing ourselves because for some reason people like to do that in times of chaos and stress. But  if you don't like my posts, don't worry about it; I just came by  to see what the the alt-right segment of the gaming community - the only part of the right I regularly encounter - was saying in a place where they feel safe to fume and blather. It confirmed my impression that the cultural divorce between the right and everyone else is still well in effect, and good riddance.

The various slices of the Trumpism pie have a lot of details to natter on about during the coming days, including but reaching far beyond the stew of absurd ideas and beloved grievances they talk about here. But the main thing they will have to confront is that over a short few years they have basically nothing to show for, they have evolved from a powerful voting block into a group that's just walked into the political wilderness with no plan for getting back out. To one side is the abandonment of your weird belief system and re-integration with the part of society that likes things like the Constitution, democracy and fact-based decision making; to the other side is the descent from political minority to something like a Sunni factionalism to something like an ISIS self-governing gang of violent dipshits, to dead (the end point of anyone who refuses to leave this path). As  far as I am concerned, you can all choke on each other's dicks. But it will be interesting to watch what sorts of choices they all make.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 09, 2021, 01:21:08 PM
So one pickup truck with a gun and 11 Molotov Cocktails was found two blocks away and they're still investigating, and the FBI speculates (based on no evidence so far) whether any of the protesters intended to kidnap somebody? The pick up truck thing sounds fucked up and an idiotic move (assuming they weren't just planted there by the cops), but at least the guy didn't even bring them into the building, so nothing happened with them. The feds engaging in idle speculation is a big nothing burger, with a side of nada.

PS: Thanks for making me give CNN clicks with an un-achieved article.  :-

Here's more information on the IEDs found near the Capitol. It's Fox News, if you prefer that to CNN.

Quote
The devices found near the Republican National Committee and Democratic National Committee headquarters in Washington, D.C., on Wednesday were actual explosive devices, according to a senior federal law enforcement official briefed on the investigations.

Fox News first reported that multiple IEDs, resembling pipe bombs, were found near the Capitol grounds on Wednesday.

Specifically, two law enforcement sources said devices resembling pipe bombs were found near the headquarters of the Republican National Committee and the Democratic National Committee, both buildings located near the Capitol grounds.

One senior federal law enforcement official confirmed to Fox News those devices were not phonies, "those things were the real deal."
Source: https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/capitol-hill-violence-explosives-found-at-rnc-dnc-the-real-deal-sources-say
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Snowman0147 on January 09, 2021, 01:29:25 PM
You do realize the police let the protestors into Capital Hill?  This was a set up.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 09, 2021, 01:39:56 PM
No one, including myself, is trying to convince anyone of anything here; we are just expressing ourselves because for some reason people like to do that in times of chaos and stress. But  if you don't like my posts, don't worry about it; I just came by  to see what the the alt-right segment of the gaming community - the only part of the right I regularly encounter - was saying in a place where they feel safe to fume and blather. It confirmed my impression that the cultural divorce between the right and everyone else is still well in effect, and good riddance.

The various slices of the Trumpism pie have a lot of details to natter on about during the coming days, including but reaching far beyond the stew of absurd ideas and beloved grievances they talk about here. But the main thing they will have to confront is that over a short few years they have basically nothing to show for, they have evolved from a powerful voting block into a group that's just walked into the political wilderness with no plan for getting back out. To one side is the abandonment of your weird belief system and re-integration with the part of society that likes things like the Constitution, democracy and fact-based decision making; to the other side is the descent from political minority to something like a Sunni factionalism to something like an ISIS self-governing gang of violent dipshits, to dead (the end point of anyone who refuses to leave this path). As  far as I am concerned, you can all choke on each other's dicks. But it will be interesting to watch what sorts of choices they all make.

Aw, you're a cutie!

I think we've got a batch of posters who come here just because their echo-chambers are so stifling they know they can't get the whole picture, even if they disagree. And/or want to vent their spleens at the "Deplorable Trump Worshippers".

But that's just my little pet theory. ;)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 09, 2021, 01:42:27 PM
You do realize the police let the protestors into Capital Hill?  This was a set up.
Your tinfoil hat might just be a little too tight, but please explain what you mean.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 09, 2021, 01:46:29 PM
No one, including myself, is trying to convince anyone of anything here; we are just expressing ourselves because for some reason people like to do that in times of chaos and stress. But  if you don't like my posts, don't worry about it; I just came by  to see what the the alt-right segment of the gaming community - the only part of the right I regularly encounter - was saying in a place where they feel safe to fume and blather. It confirmed my impression that the cultural divorce between the right and everyone else is still well in effect, and good riddance.

The various slices of the Trumpism pie have a lot of details to natter on about during the coming days, including but reaching far beyond the stew of absurd ideas and beloved grievances they talk about here. But the main thing they will have to confront is that over a short few years they have basically nothing to show for, they have evolved from a powerful voting block into a group that's just walked into the political wilderness with no plan for getting back out. To one side is the abandonment of your weird belief system and re-integration with the part of society that likes things like the Constitution, democracy and fact-based decision making; to the other side is the descent from political minority to something like a Sunni factionalism to something like an ISIS self-governing gang of violent dipshits, to dead (the end point of anyone who refuses to leave this path). As  far as I am concerned, you can all choke on each other's dicks. But it will be interesting to watch what sorts of choices they all make.

When the "alt-right" is whoever you declare them to be, everyone you meet is "alt-right". You're just a delusion idiot blabbering incomprehensible nonsense at figments of your imagination that don't connect with anything that anyone is saying here and venting onto people you decided are evil monsters apparently based on your desire to frame people as such as a type of sick therapy of sorts, like yelling at random people on the internet makes you feel better. I don't even remember seeing you before last night (or maybe the night before that), yet somehow you have an accurate lock on WTF my actual believes are? Go visit a psych doctor and get medicated or something, or smoke some weed instead.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 09, 2021, 01:48:32 PM
You do realize the police let the protestors into Capital Hill?  This was a set up.
Your tinfoil hat might just be a little too tight, but please explain what you mean.

There are videos of the cops moving the barricades to let people in and I already posted an article a couple of posts ago about how off duty cops and military personnel were among the rioters in the Capitol. Even if it's still technically speculative, saying that it was a set up is NOT just a tinfoil hat theory at this point. There's actual evidence to suggest that may have been the case.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 09, 2021, 01:49:47 PM
No one, including myself, is trying to convince anyone of anything here; we are just expressing ourselves because for some reason people like to do that in times of chaos and stress. But  if you don't like my posts, don't worry about it; I just came by  to see what the the alt-right segment of the gaming community - the only part of the right I regularly encounter - was saying in a place where they feel safe to fume and blather. It confirmed my impression that the cultural divorce between the right and everyone else is still well in effect, and good riddance.

The various slices of the Trumpism pie have a lot of details to natter on about during the coming days, including but reaching far beyond the stew of absurd ideas and beloved grievances they talk about here. But the main thing they will have to confront is that over a short few years they have basically nothing to show for, they have evolved from a powerful voting block into a group that's just walked into the political wilderness with no plan for getting back out. To one side is the abandonment of your weird belief system and re-integration with the part of society that likes things like the Constitution, democracy and fact-based decision making; to the other side is the descent from political minority to something like a Sunni factionalism to something like an ISIS self-governing gang of violent dipshits, to dead (the end point of anyone who refuses to leave this path). As  far as I am concerned, you can all choke on each other's dicks. But it will be interesting to watch what sorts of choices they all make.

Greetings!

How sadly delusional--not to mention, smug and condescending.

Where I live, we have Conservative political leadership which very much supports the Constitution, democracy, and fact-based decision making. In far contrast to the cock-sucking, Marxist Democrat tyrants that rule elsewhere. Going down a long list of Liberal, Democrat policies--the Democrats are the people choking down Mao's manual on politics. New York, Baltimore, Detroit, Chicago, Minneapolis, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle--all run by cock-sucking, Marxist Democrats that hate the Constitution, and hate America and freedom. That's why each one of such places routinely violate the Constitution with restrictions against the 2nd Amendment, heavy taxation, exude sky-high crime, and have become disease-ridden, impoverished, tyrannical shitholes.

Good riddance, indeed.

I'm more than happy to keep the fucking Marxists and the globalists and the tyrants and the sniveling crybabies trapped there, in the Marxist Democrat shitholes where they can wallow in crime, poverty, and shit. Let them all wear masks and wrap themselves in bubble wrap while they are fucked in the ass, robbed by thugs, and taxed and regulated into the poor house. And all the while, they get to get on their knees and beg for more government cheese, because they are unarmed and helpless fucking sheep. Let them REEE while the armies of homeless troglodytes gibber around them in ever-increasing hordes.

Good! Let the cock-sucking Marxist Democrats choke on their own shit.

Meanwhile, out in "Fly Over Country", we will live free and prosperous, honouring our Constitution, keeping our guns, and having an actual society that is rational and sane.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 09, 2021, 01:50:37 PM
No one, including myself, is trying to convince anyone of anything here; we are just expressing ourselves because for some reason people like to do that in times of chaos and stress. But  if you don't like my posts, don't worry about it; I just came by  to see what the the alt-right segment of the gaming community - the only part of the right I regularly encounter - was saying in a place where they feel safe to fume and blather. It confirmed my impression that the cultural divorce between the right and everyone else is still well in effect, and good riddance.

The various slices of the Trumpism pie have a lot of details to natter on about during the coming days, including but reaching far beyond the stew of absurd ideas and beloved grievances they talk about here. But the main thing they will have to confront is that over a short few years they have basically nothing to show for, they have evolved from a powerful voting block into a group that's just walked into the political wilderness with no plan for getting back out. To one side is the abandonment of your weird belief system and re-integration with the part of society that likes things like the Constitution, democracy and fact-based decision making; to the other side is the descent from political minority to something like a Sunni factionalism to something like an ISIS self-governing gang of violent dipshits, to dead (the end point of anyone who refuses to leave this path). As  far as I am concerned, you can all choke on each other's dicks. But it will be interesting to watch what sorts of choices they all make.

When the "alt-right" is whoever you declare them to be, everyone you meet is "alt-right". You're just a delusion idiot blabbering incomprehensible nonsense at figments of your imagination that don't connect with anything that anyone is saying here and venting onto people you decided are evil monsters apparently based on your desire to frame people as such as a type of sick therapy of sorts, like yelling at random people on the internet makes you feel better. I don't even remember seeing you before last night (or maybe the night before that), yet somehow you have an accurate lock on WTF my actual believes are? Go visit a psych doctor and get medicated or something, or smoke some weed instead.
Seems to me there's no difference between what you posted and:
When the "Marxist" is whoever you declare them to be, everyone you meet is "Marxist". You're just a delusion idiot blabbering incomprehensible nonsense at figments of your imagination that don't connect with anything that anyone is saying here and venting onto people you decided are evil monsters apparently based on your desire to frame people as such as a type of sick therapy of sorts, like yelling at random people on the internet makes you feel better.
Kinda weird, no?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 09, 2021, 01:51:55 PM
No one, including myself, is trying to convince anyone of anything here; we are just expressing ourselves because for some reason people like to do that in times of chaos and stress. But  if you don't like my posts, don't worry about it; I just came by  to see what the the alt-right segment of the gaming community - the only part of the right I regularly encounter - was saying in a place where they feel safe to fume and blather. It confirmed my impression that the cultural divorce between the right and everyone else is still well in effect, and good riddance.

The various slices of the Trumpism pie have a lot of details to natter on about during the coming days, including but reaching far beyond the stew of absurd ideas and beloved grievances they talk about here. But the main thing they will have to confront is that over a short few years they have basically nothing to show for, they have evolved from a powerful voting block into a group that's just walked into the political wilderness with no plan for getting back out. To one side is the abandonment of your weird belief system and re-integration with the part of society that likes things like the Constitution, democracy and fact-based decision making; to the other side is the descent from political minority to something like a Sunni factionalism to something like an ISIS self-governing gang of violent dipshits, to dead (the end point of anyone who refuses to leave this path). As  far as I am concerned, you can all choke on each other's dicks. But it will be interesting to watch what sorts of choices they all make.

Greetings!

How sadly delusional--not to mention, smug and condescending.

Where I live, we have Conservative political leadership which very much supports the Constitution, democracy, and fact-based decision making. In far contrast to the cock-sucking, Marxist Democrat tyrants that rule elsewhere. Going down a long list of Liberal, Democrat policies--the Democrats are the people choking down Mao's manual on politics. New York, Baltimore, Detroit, Chicago, Minneapolis, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle--all run by cock-sucking, Marxist Democrats that hate the Constitution, and hate America and freedom. That's why each one of such places routinely violate the Constitution with restrictions against the 2nd Amendment, heavy taxation, exude sky-high crime, and have become disease-ridden, impoverished, tyrannical shitholes.

Good riddance, indeed.

I'm more than happy to keep the fucking Marxists and the globalists and the tyrants and the sniveling crybabies trapped there, in the Marxist Democrat shitholes where they can wallow in crime, poverty, and shit. Let them all wear masks and wrap themselves in bubble wrap while they are fucked in the ass, robbed by thugs, and taxed and regulated into the poor house. And all the while, they get to get on their knees and beg for more government cheese, because they are unarmed and helpless fucking sheep. Let them REEE while the armies of homeless troglodytes gibber around them in ever-increasing hordes.

Good! Let the cock-sucking Marxist Democrats choke on their own shit.

Meanwhile, out in "Fly Over Country", we will live free and prosperous, honouring our Constitution, keeping our guns, and having an actual society that is rational and sane.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
And there's SHARK blindly taking the bait and proving what I just posted. Thank you, you crazy little bitch.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 09, 2021, 01:52:45 PM
And since Trump only won 46% of the vote in 2016, I certainly wouldn't call 'half of his supporters' 25% of the population - only 23%.  But that's just math.   
No, it's a failure to understand how to correctly apply math to the real world. In 2016, 63 million voted for Trump, and the US population was 323 million. That's 19.5% of the population. Halve that for the targets of Hillary's hate speech.

Wrong denominator; the voting eligible population in 2016 was much lower, and Clinton's statement was about supporters, not voters.
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/01/30/2017-01890/estimates-of-the-voting-age-population-for-2016
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/11/03/in-past-elections-u-s-trailed-most-developed-countries-in-voter-turnout/

The low turnout is lamentable; I hope nobody is discouraging turnout by saying that an individual's vote doesn't matter.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 09, 2021, 01:56:14 PM
So one pickup truck with a gun and 11 Molotov Cocktails was found two blocks away and they're still investigating, and the FBI speculates (based on no evidence so far) whether any of the protesters intended to kidnap somebody? The pick up truck thing sounds fucked up and an idiotic move (assuming they weren't just planted there by the cops), but at least the guy didn't even bring them into the building, so nothing happened with them. The feds engaging in idle speculation is a big nothing burger, with a side of nada.

PS: Thanks for making me give CNN clicks with an un-achieved article.  :-

Here's more information on the IEDs found near the Capitol. It's Fox News, if you prefer that to CNN.

Quote
The devices found near the Republican National Committee and Democratic National Committee headquarters in Washington, D.C., on Wednesday were actual explosive devices, according to a senior federal law enforcement official briefed on the investigations.

Fox News first reported that multiple IEDs, resembling pipe bombs, were found near the Capitol grounds on Wednesday.

Specifically, two law enforcement sources said devices resembling pipe bombs were found near the headquarters of the Republican National Committee and the Democratic National Committee, both buildings located near the Capitol grounds.

One senior federal law enforcement official confirmed to Fox News those devices were not phonies, "those things were the real deal."
Source: https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/capitol-hill-violence-explosives-found-at-rnc-dnc-the-real-deal-sources-say

They're both garbage networks, but CNN is by far worse at this point in history (we're not living the the Faux News 90s anymore, when it was the other way around).

Either way, explosive devices may have been "found", but they still weren't inside the Capitol. And who placed them there? All we have so far is that they were "found" somewhere "near" the RNC and DNC headquarters and the investigation is still ongoing.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: myleftnut on January 09, 2021, 01:57:48 PM

You do realize the police let the protestors into Capital Hill?  This was a set up.
Your tinfoil hat might just be a little too tight, but please explain what you mean.

There are videos of the cops moving the barricades to let people in and I already posted an article a couple of posts ago about how off duty cops and military personnel were among the rioters in the Capitol. Even if it's still technically speculative, saying that it was a set up is NOT just a tinfoil hat theory at this point. There's actual evidence to suggest that may have been the case.

Ya I’ve seen that along with cops standing around doing nothing while people actively break through doors but it seems it was them being complicit rather than them setting up the protestors. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 09, 2021, 01:58:42 PM
No one, including myself, is trying to convince anyone of anything here; we are just expressing ourselves because for some reason people like to do that in times of chaos and stress. But  if you don't like my posts, don't worry about it; I just came by  to see what the the alt-right segment of the gaming community - the only part of the right I regularly encounter - was saying in a place where they feel safe to fume and blather. It confirmed my impression that the cultural divorce between the right and everyone else is still well in effect, and good riddance.

The various slices of the Trumpism pie have a lot of details to natter on about during the coming days, including but reaching far beyond the stew of absurd ideas and beloved grievances they talk about here. But the main thing they will have to confront is that over a short few years they have basically nothing to show for, they have evolved from a powerful voting block into a group that's just walked into the political wilderness with no plan for getting back out. To one side is the abandonment of your weird belief system and re-integration with the part of society that likes things like the Constitution, democracy and fact-based decision making; to the other side is the descent from political minority to something like a Sunni factionalism to something like an ISIS self-governing gang of violent dipshits, to dead (the end point of anyone who refuses to leave this path). As  far as I am concerned, you can all choke on each other's dicks. But it will be interesting to watch what sorts of choices they all make.

When the "alt-right" is whoever you declare them to be, everyone you meet is "alt-right". You're just a delusion idiot blabbering incomprehensible nonsense at figments of your imagination that don't connect with anything that anyone is saying here and venting onto people you decided are evil monsters apparently based on your desire to frame people as such as a type of sick therapy of sorts, like yelling at random people on the internet makes you feel better. I don't even remember seeing you before last night (or maybe the night before that), yet somehow you have an accurate lock on WTF my actual believes are? Go visit a psych doctor and get medicated or something, or smoke some weed instead.
Seems to me there's no difference between what you posted and:
When the "Marxist" is whoever you declare them to be, everyone you meet is "Marxist". You're just a delusion idiot blabbering incomprehensible nonsense at figments of your imagination that don't connect with anything that anyone is saying here and venting onto people you decided are evil monsters apparently based on your desire to frame people as such as a type of sick therapy of sorts, like yelling at random people on the internet makes you feel better.
Kinda weird, no?

Yeah, specially since I've rarely ever even used the word "Marxist", specially not to declare everyone that indiscriminately.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 09, 2021, 02:03:07 PM

You do realize the police let the protestors into Capital Hill?  This was a set up.
Your tinfoil hat might just be a little too tight, but please explain what you mean.

There are videos of the cops moving the barricades to let people in and I already posted an article a couple of posts ago about how off duty cops and military personnel were among the rioters in the Capitol. Even if it's still technically speculative, saying that it was a set up is NOT just a tinfoil hat theory at this point. There's actual evidence to suggest that may have been the case.

Ya I’ve seen that along with cops standing around doing nothing while people actively break through doors but it seems it was them being complicit rather than them setting up the protestors.

Unless we consider the possibility that maybe those explosive devices that have suddenly been found but never went off or seem to have been strategically placed anywhere where they may have caused actual harm may have been planted by those same "complicit" cops letting the useful idiots inside the Capitol or storming the building with them.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 09, 2021, 02:04:22 PM
You do realize the police let the protestors into Capital Hill?  This was a set up.

Greetings!

I keep on hearing many people saying the same thing, Snowman. Several people and commentators that are well-regarded and known for being sharp have also voiced suspicions of such. As improbable as I might think it is--or part of me, anyways--I can't put anything beyond the Marxist Democrats, ANTIFA, and whatever scum fucking traitors and power-mongers they have ensconced in various agencies of the government. Sadly, deep down, I think many Americans agree that such malicious interference and duplicitousness is entirely possible. I've seen photos taken, video footage, and so on, that damn, yeah. I'm suspicious of more BS from parts of the government. It shouldn't be surprising, though, really. We have large numbers of politicians and political bureaucrats that *hate*President Trump, they hate Conservatives and Trump supporters, and well, is there anything these fucking traitors *wouldn't* do to make Trump and Patriotic Americans that support Trump look bad? All the while, providing themselves with an excuse to grasp more power, make lists of people they can demonize and oppress, and push for more Marxist tyranny?

I think many of these Marxist scum would do anything to advance the Democrat party's power, and to gain advantage against Conservative, patriotic Americans.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 09, 2021, 02:07:57 PM
Anyone want to comment about the presence of John Earle Sullivan at the protest?

(Whozat, Ghost?)

Oh. He's an activist and photojournalist whose last gig was supporting an Antifa/BLM rally in Provo, Utah.

I'm sure he was there for totally innocent reasons. Really.

Weird; a photojournalist at a large public event? Probably selling socks.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 09, 2021, 02:17:18 PM
And since Trump only won 46% of the vote in 2016, I certainly wouldn't call 'half of his supporters' 25% of the population - only 23%.  But that's just math.   
No, it's a failure to understand how to correctly apply math to the real world. In 2016, 63 million voted for Trump, and the US population was 323 million. That's 19.5% of the population. Halve that for the targets of Hillary's hate speech.

Wrong denominator; the voting eligible population in 2016 was much lower, and Clinton's statement was about supporters, not voters.
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/01/30/2017-01890/estimates-of-the-voting-age-population-for-2016
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/11/03/in-past-elections-u-s-trailed-most-developed-countries-in-voter-turnout/

The low turnout is lamentable; I hope nobody is discouraging turnout by saying that an individual's vote doesn't matter.
Correct denominator. I specifically used the total population in 2016, not the total number of eligible voters, because this isn't about who is allowed to vote. It's about who the politicians really represent, and their claims of authority based on the explicit support of the population. And I don't really care about Hillary's statement; only I threw that to make it clear that my numbers was not the half number DeadDMwalking was using.

Your vote doesn't matter, no politician has anything approaching a mandate, and even if they did that's still no excuse to run roughshod over the rest of the population.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 09, 2021, 02:35:48 PM
No one, including myself, is trying to convince anyone of anything here; we are just expressing ourselves because for some reason people like to do that in times of chaos and stress. But  if you don't like my posts, don't worry about it; I just came by  to see what the the alt-right segment of the gaming community - the only part of the right I regularly encounter - was saying in a place where they feel safe to fume and blather. It confirmed my impression that the cultural divorce between the right and everyone else is still well in effect, and good riddance.

The various slices of the Trumpism pie have a lot of details to natter on about during the coming days, including but reaching far beyond the stew of absurd ideas and beloved grievances they talk about here. But the main thing they will have to confront is that over a short few years they have basically nothing to show for, they have evolved from a powerful voting block into a group that's just walked into the political wilderness with no plan for getting back out. To one side is the abandonment of your weird belief system and re-integration with the part of society that likes things like the Constitution, democracy and fact-based decision making; to the other side is the descent from political minority to something like a Sunni factionalism to something like an ISIS self-governing gang of violent dipshits, to dead (the end point of anyone who refuses to leave this path). As  far as I am concerned, you can all choke on each other's dicks. But it will be interesting to watch what sorts of choices they all make.

When the "alt-right" is whoever you declare them to be, everyone you meet is "alt-right". You're just a delusion idiot blabbering incomprehensible nonsense at figments of your imagination that don't connect with anything that anyone is saying here and venting onto people you decided are evil monsters apparently based on your desire to frame people as such as a type of sick therapy of sorts, like yelling at random people on the internet makes you feel better. I don't even remember seeing you before last night (or maybe the night before that), yet somehow you have an accurate lock on WTF my actual believes are? Go visit a psych doctor and get medicated or something, or smoke some weed instead.
Seems to me there's no difference between what you posted and:
When the "Marxist" is whoever you declare them to be, everyone you meet is "Marxist". You're just a delusion idiot blabbering incomprehensible nonsense at figments of your imagination that don't connect with anything that anyone is saying here and venting onto people you decided are evil monsters apparently based on your desire to frame people as such as a type of sick therapy of sorts, like yelling at random people on the internet makes you feel better.
Kinda weird, no?

Yeah, specially since I've rarely ever even used the word "Marxist", specially not to declare everyone that indiscriminately.
Cool. Glad to hear that you'll be blasting at the bleating asswipes that are calling everyone they dislike Marxists. For the record, I don't tend to use labels like alt-right or Marxist either. I do call a lot of people assholes and similar names, but those don't fall along party lines.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 09, 2021, 02:42:38 PM
There are  well documented news reports of everything I wrote. If you haven't seen them, it means you have not been interested enough to check. 
Your first claim is "'protesters' murdered a cop by crushing his head with fire extinguisher". Except I've seen no source beyond random nobodies like you claiming it was directly caused by protesters, that it qualifies as murder, or that his head was crushed. The press release by the Capitol Police on the 7th said he was "injured while physically engaging with protesters". Which is a remarkably useless statement, because it could include friendly fire, an accident like a fall, or some kind of medical condition triggered by stress, like having a stroke. The statement also says he "returned to his division office and collapsed", which seems somewhat unlikely if it was the result of major, obvious trauma (he wouldn't be transporting himself, and he'd be taken to a hospital instead), though I can think of some scenarios where that could have happened. There's also a statement on the 8th by the acting attorney general that they are starting a murder investigation, and "will spare no resources in investigating and holding accountable those responsible". But again, that says little or nothing. An investigation was pretty much guaranteed, looking into whether it was murder does not mean it's murder, and responsibility can mean almost anything. Almost all the news reports seem to be based on the press release and the statement by the acting attorney general. The article l linked below has some additional information, mentioning that the reports of a fire extinguisher can't be confirmed, and that one of their sources said the death was the result of a medical condition, which further suggest it was very different from what you said.

If anybody has any good sources giving more detail on Sicknick's death, I'd like to see them.

It's similar to what we know about the three people who died due to "medical emergencies". Which could be anything; heat stroke, anaphylactic shock, and massive trauma are all medical emergencies. The only death where there seems to be any real information at the moment is Ashli Babbitt's, where they've been very clear she was shot and killed by a cop.

https://www.uscp.gov/media-center/press-releases/loss-uscp-colleague-brian-d-sicknick
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/capitol-police-officer-dies-injuries-suffered-riots/story?id=75124131
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 09, 2021, 03:44:12 PM
And since Trump only won 46% of the vote in 2016, I certainly wouldn't call 'half of his supporters' 25% of the population - only 23%.  But that's just math.   
No, it's a failure to understand how to correctly apply math to the real world. In 2016, 63 million voted for Trump, and the US population was 323 million. That's 19.5% of the population. Halve that for the targets of Hillary's hate speech.

Wrong denominator; the voting eligible population in 2016 was much lower, and Clinton's statement was about supporters, not voters.
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/01/30/2017-01890/estimates-of-the-voting-age-population-for-2016
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/11/03/in-past-elections-u-s-trailed-most-developed-countries-in-voter-turnout/

The low turnout is lamentable; I hope nobody is discouraging turnout by saying that an individual's vote doesn't matter.
Correct denominator.

Nope, it's not correct. You can't compare number of votes Trump received to the entire population, which includes those who are too young to vote, to determine the level of support. Just speaking from the point of view of applying mathematics to the real world.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 09, 2021, 05:23:42 PM
If anybody has any good sources giving more detail on Sicknick's death, I'd like to see them.

Here's the most that I see:

Quote
Sicknick, 42, was hit in the head with a fire extinguisher during a struggle, two law enforcement officials said, although it was not clear if he was the officer shown in the video. The officials could not discuss the ongoing investigation publicly and spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity.
Source: https://apnews.com/article/capitol-police-death-brian-sicknick-46933a828d7b12de7e3d5620a8a04583

It's similar to what we know about the three people who died due to "medical emergencies". Which could be anything; heat stroke, anaphylactic shock, and massive trauma are all medical emergencies. The only death where there seems to be any real information at the moment is Ashli Babbitt's, where they've been very clear she was shot and killed by a cop.

https://www.uscp.gov/media-center/press-releases/loss-uscp-colleague-brian-d-sicknick
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/capitol-police-officer-dies-injuries-suffered-riots/story?id=75124131

DC police have confirmed the other three dead as Benjamin Phillips, 50, of Ringtown, Pennsylvania; Kevin Greeson, 55, of Athens, Alabama; and Rosanne Boyland, 34, of Kennesaw, Georgia.

Quote
Rosanne Boyland, 34, was killed in the crush when a few rioters started pushing people, her friend Justin Winchell said.

"They basically created a panic, and the police, in turn, push back on them, so people started falling," Mr Winchell said.

"I put my arm underneath her and was pulling her out and then another guy fell on top of her, and another guy was just walking (on top of her).

"There were people stacked two-three deep…people just crushed."

Paramedics desperately tried to revive her but were unable to.

Photos from earlier that day showed her carrying the banner with the phrase "Don't tread on me".
Source: https://www.9news.com.au/world/rosanne-boyland-trampled-dont-tread-on-me-gadsden-flag-donald-trump-us-capitol-riot/5d5c7251-e17c-4961-88a8-a906f38d7b54

The other two apparently died of strokes -> heart problems. The circumstances of Phillips stroke are still unclear, but Greeson was on the phone with his wife and collapsed near a reporter.

Quote
A member of the group from Honesdale, Gordy Smith, said several people called Phillips when it was time to leave but he didn't arrive. One of those calls was answered by Washington police and told them Phillips suffered a stroke and died at George Washington University Hospital.
Source: https://meaww.com/benjamin-phillips-death-capitol-riots-trumparoo-donald-trump-died-stroke-pennsylvania-ex-wife-kids

Quote
Mr. Greeson had been talking to his wife on his phone when he fell to the sidewalk. A New York Times reporter watched as emergency personnel rushed to help, furiously performing chest compressions, but were unable to revive him.
Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/us/politics/an-alabama-man-who-suffered-a-heart-attack-outside-the-capitol-is-among-the-dead.html
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Daztur on January 09, 2021, 05:36:54 PM
One them them apparently tasered himself.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 09, 2021, 05:45:17 PM
One them them apparently tasered himself.

That was retracted as unconfirmed by the reporter who originally wrote it. It could have been Phillips, but it might just be a false rumor.

Source: https://www.distractify.com/p/did-a-rioter-taser-himself-to-death
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 09, 2021, 05:50:24 PM
There are  well documented news reports of everything I wrote. If you haven't seen them, it means you have not been interested enough to check. 
Your first claim is "'protesters' murdered a cop by crushing his head with fire extinguisher". Except I've seen no source beyond random nobodies like you claiming it was directly caused by protesters, that it qualifies as murder, or that his head was crushed. The press release by the Capitol Police on the 7th said he was "injured while physically engaging with protesters". Which is a remarkably useless statement, because it could include friendly fire, an accident like a fall, or some kind of medical condition triggered by stress, like having a stroke. The statement also says he "returned to his division office and collapsed", which seems somewhat unlikely if it was the result of major, obvious trauma (he wouldn't be transporting himself, and he'd be taken to a hospital instead), though I can think of some scenarios where that could have happened. There's also a statement on the 8th by the acting attorney general that they are starting a murder investigation, and "will spare no resources in investigating and holding accountable those responsible". But again, that says little or nothing. An investigation was pretty much guaranteed, looking into whether it was murder does not mean it's murder, and responsibility can mean almost anything. Almost all the news reports seem to be based on the press release and the statement by the acting attorney general. The article l linked below has some additional information, mentioning that the reports of a fire extinguisher can't be confirmed, and that one of their sources said the death was the result of a medical condition, which further suggest it was very different from what you said.

If anybody has any good sources giving more detail on Sicknick's death, I'd like to see them.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/us/brian-sicknick-police-capitol-dies.html
Quote
At some point in the chaos — with the mob rampaging through the halls of Congress while lawmakers were forced to hide under their desks — he was struck with a fire extinguisher, according to two law enforcement officials.

If it was the fire extinguisher, one would infer that he was hit in the head; it's difficult to imagine any other location that would lead to him collapsing and dying later without having noticed a severe injury immediately. But perhaps he sustained injuries in other ways and the fire extinguisher is a red herring (they do tend to be red). I can't imagine that he was struck with a fire extinguisher by a member of Congress, a staffer, a legitimate visitor, or other police, so I'm pretty sure that would have been a rioter. An AP story (https://apnews.com/article/capitol-police-death-brian-sicknick-46933a828d7b12de7e3d5620a8a04583) references a video of a rioter hitting a police officer with a fire extinguisher:
Quote
Armed with metal pipes, pepper spray and other weapons, the mob pushed past the thin police line, and one protester hurled a fire extinguisher at a officer, according to video widely circulated on YouTube.
...
Sicknick, 42, was hit in the head with a fire extinguisher during a struggle, two law enforcement officials said, although it was not clear if he was the officer shown in the video.
Given that very few Capitol Police have ever died in the line of duty (https://www.uscp.gov/media-center/uscp-fast-facts), it would be an extreme coincidence if he just happened to die then for unrelated reasons.

jhkim summarized the other deaths, although I think Kevin Greeson was reported to have died of a heart attack rather than a stroke (lots of claims that he caused it by tasering himself, but now jhkim has posted corrections about that.)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 09, 2021, 05:59:41 PM
Quote
Correct denominator.

Nope, it's not correct. You can't compare number of votes Trump received to the entire population, which includes those who are too young to vote, to determine the level of support. Just speaking from the point of view of applying mathematics to the real world.
Yes, it is correct. I'm talking about mandates, and how politicians claim they have a mandate when only a tiny sliver of the population voted for them. In that context, the entire population matters. It doesn't matter whether they're in prison or whether they're too young, because they're still part of the population being represented by the politician.

Are you just obstinately refusing to see any point of view other than your own, as usual?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 09, 2021, 06:17:55 PM
If anybody has any good sources giving more detail on Sicknick's death, I'd like to see them.

Here's the most that I see:

Quote
Sicknick, 42, was hit in the head with a fire extinguisher during a struggle, two law enforcement officials said, although it was not clear if he was the officer shown in the video. The officials could not discuss the ongoing investigation publicly and spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity.
Source: https://apnews.com/article/capitol-police-death-brian-sicknick-46933a828d7b12de7e3d5620a8a04583

It's similar to what we know about the three people who died due to "medical emergencies". Which could be anything; heat stroke, anaphylactic shock, and massive trauma are all medical emergencies. The only death where there seems to be any real information at the moment is Ashli Babbitt's, where they've been very clear she was shot and killed by a cop.

https://www.uscp.gov/media-center/press-releases/loss-uscp-colleague-brian-d-sicknick
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/capitol-police-officer-dies-injuries-suffered-riots/story?id=75124131

DC police have confirmed the other three dead as Benjamin Phillips, 50, of Ringtown, Pennsylvania; Kevin Greeson, 55, of Athens, Alabama; and Rosanne Boyland, 34, of Kennesaw, Georgia.

Quote
Rosanne Boyland, 34, was killed in the crush when a few rioters started pushing people, her friend Justin Winchell said.

"They basically created a panic, and the police, in turn, push back on them, so people started falling," Mr Winchell said.

"I put my arm underneath her and was pulling her out and then another guy fell on top of her, and another guy was just walking (on top of her).

"There were people stacked two-three deep…people just crushed."

Paramedics desperately tried to revive her but were unable to.

Photos from earlier that day showed her carrying the banner with the phrase "Don't tread on me".
Source: https://www.9news.com.au/world/rosanne-boyland-trampled-dont-tread-on-me-gadsden-flag-donald-trump-us-capitol-riot/5d5c7251-e17c-4961-88a8-a906f38d7b54

The other two apparently died of strokes -> heart problems. The circumstances of Phillips stroke are still unclear, but Greeson was on the phone with his wife and collapsed near a reporter.

Quote
A member of the group from Honesdale, Gordy Smith, said several people called Phillips when it was time to leave but he didn't arrive. One of those calls was answered by Washington police and told them Phillips suffered a stroke and died at George Washington University Hospital.
Source: https://meaww.com/benjamin-phillips-death-capitol-riots-trumparoo-donald-trump-died-stroke-pennsylvania-ex-wife-kids

Quote
Mr. Greeson had been talking to his wife on his phone when he fell to the sidewalk. A New York Times reporter watched as emergency personnel rushed to help, furiously performing chest compressions, but were unable to revive him.
Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/us/politics/an-alabama-man-who-suffered-a-heart-attack-outside-the-capitol-is-among-the-dead.html
Useful. Sicknick's death could still be an accident of some kind, but based on your links it seems far more likely someone is culpable of something, though murder is still pure speculation. Since he returned to the division office on his own, the injury was neither immediately fatal nor obviously critical. Sounds like there was a scuffle, an injury, and that resulted in death because of underlying conditions. But the fire extinguisher, the nature of the injury, and the preexisting conditions are all based on unknown sources, so it's still not conclusive. It may be a while before we learn the entire truth, because they won't be sharing much during the investigation.

Being crushed in a crowd is a terrible way to go, but it's hard to pin on a single individual. The other two are unfortunate, but may be nobody's responsibility.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on January 09, 2021, 06:19:38 PM
So is this the new thread for discussion of the cosplay coup?

Eager to get it shut down as well?

No, not at all. What gave you the impression I want a thread shut down, much less one I like to participate in?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 09, 2021, 09:37:56 PM
No one, including myself, is trying to convince anyone of anything here; we are just expressing ourselves because for some reason people like to do that in times of chaos and stress. But  if you don't like my posts, don't worry about it; I just came by  to see what the the alt-right segment of the gaming community - the only part of the right I regularly encounter - was saying in a place where they feel safe to fume and blather. It confirmed my impression that the cultural divorce between the right and everyone else is still well in effect, and good riddance.

The various slices of the Trumpism pie have a lot of details to natter on about during the coming days, including but reaching far beyond the stew of absurd ideas and beloved grievances they talk about here. But the main thing they will have to confront is that over a short few years they have basically nothing to show for, they have evolved from a powerful voting block into a group that's just walked into the political wilderness with no plan for getting back out. To one side is the abandonment of your weird belief system and re-integration with the part of society that likes things like the Constitution, democracy and fact-based decision making; to the other side is the descent from political minority to something like a Sunni factionalism to something like an ISIS self-governing gang of violent dipshits, to dead (the end point of anyone who refuses to leave this path). As  far as I am concerned, you can all choke on each other's dicks. But it will be interesting to watch what sorts of choices they all make.

When the "alt-right" is whoever you declare them to be, everyone you meet is "alt-right". You're just a delusion idiot blabbering incomprehensible nonsense at figments of your imagination that don't connect with anything that anyone is saying here and venting onto people you decided are evil monsters apparently based on your desire to frame people as such as a type of sick therapy of sorts, like yelling at random people on the internet makes you feel better. I don't even remember seeing you before last night (or maybe the night before that), yet somehow you have an accurate lock on WTF my actual believes are? Go visit a psych doctor and get medicated or something, or smoke some weed instead.
Seems to me there's no difference between what you posted and:
When the "Marxist" is whoever you declare them to be, everyone you meet is "Marxist". You're just a delusion idiot blabbering incomprehensible nonsense at figments of your imagination that don't connect with anything that anyone is saying here and venting onto people you decided are evil monsters apparently based on your desire to frame people as such as a type of sick therapy of sorts, like yelling at random people on the internet makes you feel better.
Kinda weird, no?

Yeah, specially since I've rarely ever even used the word "Marxist", specially not to declare everyone that indiscriminately.
Cool. Glad to hear that you'll be blasting at the bleating asswipes that are calling everyone they dislike Marxists. For the record, I don't tend to use labels like alt-right or Marxist either. I do call a lot of people assholes and similar names, but those don't fall along party lines.

You seem awfully eager to see the boards policed. Maybe Pundit should make you a mod.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 09, 2021, 10:54:59 PM
Quote
Correct denominator.

Nope, it's not correct. You can't compare number of votes Trump received to the entire population, which includes those who are too young to vote, to determine the level of support. Just speaking from the point of view of applying mathematics to the real world.
Yes, it is correct. I'm talking about mandates, and how politicians claim they have a mandate when only a tiny sliver of the population voted for them. In that context, the entire population matters. It doesn't matter whether they're in prison or whether they're too young, because they're still part of the population being represented by the politician.

Are you just obstinately refusing to see any point of view other than your own, as usual?

You were talking about what percentage of the population Hillary considered deplorable, which was a statement about supporters rather than voters, and nothing about a mandate for Trump or Clinton. No reason to think there were no supporters of either candidate under the age of 18, or otherwise ineligible to vote, among the total population of the US.

If you want to talk about low voter turnout, lowering the percentages generally reported and making it impossible to ever reach 100% turnout because of all the people who are not eligible to vote seems to be exaggerating the problem. It's enough to say that the turnout among eligible voters is embarrassingly low without trying to distort the statistics. Why count non-citizens? Are you advocating that parents and guardians get an extra vote per child? Please, be forthcoming about what you're arguing for if you're not just being a curmudgeon who wants to exaggerate the problem of low voting rates.

Otherwise it's like counting the number of prostate exams but dividing by the entire population and then expressing great concern that a more inadequate rate of diagnostic examinations is being done, at about half the rate responsible public health experts are reporting.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 10, 2021, 01:23:36 AM
You were talking about what percentage of the population Hillary considered deplorable...
No, I was not. I was addressing the concept of the mandate.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 10, 2021, 06:22:10 AM
No one, including myself, is trying to convince anyone of anything here; we are just expressing ourselves because for some reason people like to do that in times of chaos and stress. But  if you don't like my posts, don't worry about it; I just came by  to see what the the alt-right segment of the gaming community - the only part of the right I regularly encounter - was saying in a place where they feel safe to fume and blather. It confirmed my impression that the cultural divorce between the right and everyone else is still well in effect, and good riddance.

The various slices of the Trumpism pie have a lot of details to natter on about during the coming days, including but reaching far beyond the stew of absurd ideas and beloved grievances they talk about here. But the main thing they will have to confront is that over a short few years they have basically nothing to show for, they have evolved from a powerful voting block into a group that's just walked into the political wilderness with no plan for getting back out. To one side is the abandonment of your weird belief system and re-integration with the part of society that likes things like the Constitution, democracy and fact-based decision making; to the other side is the descent from political minority to something like a Sunni factionalism to something like an ISIS self-governing gang of violent dipshits, to dead (the end point of anyone who refuses to leave this path). As  far as I am concerned, you can all choke on each other's dicks. But it will be interesting to watch what sorts of choices they all make.

When the "alt-right" is whoever you declare them to be, everyone you meet is "alt-right". You're just a delusion idiot blabbering incomprehensible nonsense at figments of your imagination that don't connect with anything that anyone is saying here and venting onto people you decided are evil monsters apparently based on your desire to frame people as such as a type of sick therapy of sorts, like yelling at random people on the internet makes you feel better. I don't even remember seeing you before last night (or maybe the night before that), yet somehow you have an accurate lock on WTF my actual believes are? Go visit a psych doctor and get medicated or something, or smoke some weed instead.
Seems to me there's no difference between what you posted and:
When the "Marxist" is whoever you declare them to be, everyone you meet is "Marxist". You're just a delusion idiot blabbering incomprehensible nonsense at figments of your imagination that don't connect with anything that anyone is saying here and venting onto people you decided are evil monsters apparently based on your desire to frame people as such as a type of sick therapy of sorts, like yelling at random people on the internet makes you feel better.
Kinda weird, no?

Yeah, specially since I've rarely ever even used the word "Marxist", specially not to declare everyone that indiscriminately.
Cool. Glad to hear that you'll be blasting at the bleating asswipes that are calling everyone they dislike Marxists. For the record, I don't tend to use labels like alt-right or Marxist either. I do call a lot of people assholes and similar names, but those don't fall along party lines.

You seem awfully eager to see the boards policed. Maybe Pundit should make you a mod.
I see you too use sarcastic black type. ;)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 10, 2021, 11:26:19 AM
You were talking about what percentage of the population Hillary considered deplorable...
No, I was not. I was addressing the concept of the mandate.

No, in the context of claiming to apply math but using the wrong denominator, you said:
No, it's a failure to understand how to correctly apply math to the real world. In 2016, 63 million voted for Trump, and the US population was 323 million. That's 19.5% of the population. Halve that for the targets of Hillary's hate speech.

You went on to extend the idea of this incorrect calculation to the concept of a mandate. Why should you expect a mandate to include people who can't vote? George Washington certainly had a mandate, with 100% of electors voting for him, but there was almost no popular vote.

But you haven't explained your position: if only 65% of the population can vote, and 40% actually vote and all voted for candidate X, that would be a turnout by the normal calculation of 61.5%, which is only exceeded by 2008 from 1968 to 2016. Would X have a mandate with 100% of the vote but only 40% of the population? Any candidate who wins has a mandate in one sense; the authority to govern in the office elected to.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 10, 2021, 11:37:15 AM
You were talking about what percentage of the population Hillary considered deplorable...
No, I was not. I was addressing the concept of the mandate.

No, in the context of claiming to apply math but using the wrong denominator, you said:
No, it's a failure to understand how to correctly apply math to the real world. In 2016, 63 million voted for Trump, and the US population was 323 million. That's 19.5% of the population. Halve that for the targets of Hillary's hate speech.

You went on to extend the idea of this incorrect calculation to the concept of a mandate. Why should you expect a mandate to include people who can't vote? George Washington certainly had a mandate, with 100% of electors voting for him, but there was almost no popular vote.

But you haven't explained your position: if only 65% of the population can vote, and 40% actually vote and all voted for candidate X, that would be a turnout by the normal calculation of 61.5%, which is only exceeded by 2008 from 1968 to 2016. Would X have a mandate with 100% of the vote but only 40% of the population? Any candidate who wins has a mandate in one sense; the authority to govern in the office elected to.
What the fuck are you talking about? I'm not talking about the percentage of people who can vote. DeadDMwalking's post specifically said "population", not the "smaller percentage of the population who are allowed to vote". That's what I replied to, and I said "population" as well. I was referring to the total population, which should be from context, from the words I used, and in every other conceivable interpretation. And in the post you replied to, already I pointed out that I was mentioned the percentage of delorables just to clarify the percentage I was using was based on the full population, not the halved deplorables, and that I don't care about that. The entire focus and point of my post was to talk about the mandate, and how tiny a percentage of the population actually composes any "mandate". That's my position, which I clearly explained in my very first post, and my math is correct.

You really should practice listening to what people say, or at the very least listening to them when they tell you what they said, after you didn't bother to listen in the first place. Or listen to them the time after that, after they explain again what they said. Or when they explain it again. Heck, any one of those four times would work. You just have listen to them once.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 10, 2021, 12:53:06 PM
0
What the fuck are you talking about? I'm not talking about the percentage of people who can vote. DeadDMwalking's post specifically said "population", not the "smaller percentage of the population who are allowed to vote".

But he also referenced the voters from Trump as if they were all the supporters of Trump. So you can claim incorrect numerator instead if you want.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 10, 2021, 01:02:41 PM
The storming of the Capitol Building looks worse and worse by the day.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/09/media/reliable-sources-january-8/index.html
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-attempted-coup-federal-law-enforcement-capitol-police-2021-1
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2021/01/08/maryland-governor-describes-delayed-permission-to-send-national-guard/
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 10, 2021, 04:11:27 PM
0
What the fuck are you talking about? I'm not talking about the percentage of people who can vote. DeadDMwalking's post specifically said "population", not the "smaller percentage of the population who are allowed to vote".

But he also referenced the voters from Trump as if they were all the supporters of Trump. So you can claim incorrect numerator instead if you want.
Shame you didn't address the person who said that, not the person who was only interested in talking about the concept of a mandate.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 10, 2021, 05:02:02 PM
[But he also referenced the voters from Trump as if they were all the supporters of Trump. So you can claim incorrect numerator instead if you want.
Shame you didn't address the person who said that, not the person who was only interested in talking about the concept of a mandate.

His response was mathematically correct even if it did not address non-voters. You're welcome to talk about something else, no matter how lame the segue, but not using mathematical errors.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 10, 2021, 05:54:50 PM
Following up on earlier comparison of the June 2020 BLM action at the White House, and the January 2021 at the Capitol...

"In june they stormed the white house...Black Lives Matter stromed the White House, they broke the barricades...no one was killed, no one was shot...we had a group of largely people of color storming the White House and none of them were murdered" - Michael Malice
...
It's all about framing, unexamined bias and people's short memory spans. I didn't even remember this. BLM actually stormed the White House and NO ONE called them "Insurgents" back then.
Source? As far as I saw, all of the June 2020 protests were *outside* the White House - and they were dispersed with tear gas and stun grenades from the area. Here's some video from the time:
...
EDITED TO ADD: I guess one could read "broke the barricades" to mean that they pushed past barricades on the street - but as far as I saw, no one got up to the White House building itself, let alone broke inside and looted the place.

There was still a breach and potential threat to the President, and no one was killed, and no one took it seriously, cuz Orange Man Bad.

You're using "stormed" and "breach" as if the two events were equivalent, but you're not denying the facts that I'm citing here. You claimed that the BLM protesters "stormed the White House" -- when they were all hundreds of feet away from the building. A "breach" which happens on the street hundreds of feet from the building is not at all equivalent to smashing in windows and doors to go in and loot the place.


More broadly, when comparing BLM protests to this the Capitol -- it's important to compare apples to apples. There's mass action that is supported by the crowd, and there's individual actions by fringe elements on their own. The Capitol storming was something that was broadly supported. A large minority of Republicans are supportive not just of Trump protests in general, but of storming the Capitol in particular. We saw that here in this forum, as posters like SHARK cheered as the Capitol was stormed.

I think the closest equivalent to storming the DC Capitol would be the Seattle riots that overran the Capitol Hill police station. (And the names make it an appropriate parallel.) But that was vastly smaller scale than the DC Capitol.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 10, 2021, 06:25:05 PM
More broadly, when comparing BLM protests to this the Capitol -- it's important to compare apples to apples. There's mass action that is supported by the crowd, and there's individual actions by fringe elements on their own. The Capitol storming was something that was broadly supported. A large minority of Republicans are supportive not just of Trump protests in general, but of storming the Capitol in particular. We saw that here in this forum, as posters like SHARK cheered as the Capitol was stormed.

I think the closest equivalent to storming the DC Capitol would be the Seattle riots that overran the Capitol Hill police station. (And the names make it an appropriate parallel.) But that was vastly smaller scale than the DC Capitol.

If you want to compare storming of the Capitol then we all remember the Kavanaugh hearing where over 300 protestors were arrested:

(https://thehill.com/sites/default/files/styles/thumb_small_article/public/protest_grassleychuck_aca_kavanaughbrett_090618gn_lead.jpg?itok=aoV_bHF9)

Elizabeth Warren stirring up the demonstrators:

(https://media3.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2018_39/2579996/ss-180926-brett-kavanaugh-confirmation-hearing-19_53f084026d39f34b1c59035b82f80c53.fit-880w.jpg)

More Kavanaugh Protestors:

(https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2018/10/1862/1048/hart.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 10, 2021, 07:13:12 PM
[But he also referenced the voters from Trump as if they were all the supporters of Trump. So you can claim incorrect numerator instead if you want.
Shame you didn't address the person who said that, not the person who was only interested in talking about the concept of a mandate.

His response was mathematically correct even if it did not address non-voters. You're welcome to talk about something else, no matter how lame the segue, but not using mathematical errors.
I never said the math was wrong, I said it was applied incorrectly. Completely different things. Have you lost track of the discussion?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 10, 2021, 07:17:50 PM
More broadly, when comparing BLM protests to this the Capitol -- it's important to compare apples to apples. There's mass action that is supported by the crowd, and there's individual actions by fringe elements on their own. The Capitol storming was something that was broadly supported. A large minority of Republicans are supportive not just of Trump protests in general, but of storming the Capitol in particular. We saw that here in this forum, as posters like SHARK cheered as the Capitol was stormed.

I think the closest equivalent to storming the DC Capitol would be the Seattle riots that overran the Capitol Hill police station. (And the names make it an appropriate parallel.) But that was vastly smaller scale than the DC Capitol.

If you want to compare storming of the Capitol then we all remember the Kavanaugh hearing where over 300 protestors were arrested:
Quote
Elizabeth Warren stirring up the demonstrators:
Quote
More Kavanaugh Protestors:

There must have been many Capitol Police killed and injured, since it's comparable. How long did the Senators have to shelter in secure bunkers?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 10, 2021, 07:22:50 PM
I never said the math was wrong, I said it was applied incorrectly. Completely different things. Have you lost track of the discussion?

I never said you said his math was wrong; I was explaining that I corrected the person whose math was wrong.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 10, 2021, 07:30:57 PM
I never said the math was wrong, I said it was applied incorrectly. Completely different things. Have you lost track of the discussion?

I never said you said his math was wrong; I was explaining that I corrected the person whose math was wrong.
You literally just said "You're welcome to talk about something else... (insert obligatory attack)... but not using mathematical errors."

Why are you doing this? There's literally no point to it.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 10, 2021, 07:54:40 PM
I never said the math was wrong, I said it was applied incorrectly. Completely different things. Have you lost track of the discussion?

I never said you said his math was wrong; I was explaining that I corrected the person whose math was wrong.
You literally just said "You're welcome to talk about something else... (insert obligatory attack)... but not using mathematical errors."

Why are you doing this? There's literally no point to it.

Your segue from Hillary's comments and what it implied to the mandate was not very smooth.

I care about mathematics and I think it matters.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 10, 2021, 08:22:12 PM
Your segue from Hillary's comments and what it implied to the mandate was not very smooth.

I care about mathematics and I think it matters.
I don't care about Hillary as much as you seem to, but I do care about mathematics and I think it matters. That's why I placed it in context and then addressed a broader issue than parochial partisanship. We could have discussed the different ways it could have been sliced and diced, but you shot that pooch.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 10, 2021, 08:51:22 PM
Math is racist. I'm ashamed to be posting on a board with a bunch of white supremacists.

https://money.cnn.com/2016/09/06/technology/weapons-of-math-destruction/index.html

https://www.k12.wa.us/sites/default/files/public/socialstudies/pubdocs/Math%20SDS%20ES%20Framework.pdf
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 10, 2021, 09:45:03 PM
I think the closest equivalent to storming the DC Capitol would be the Seattle riots that overran the Capitol Hill police station. (And the names make it an appropriate parallel.) But that was vastly smaller scale than the DC Capitol.

If you want to compare storming of the Capitol then we all remember the Kavanaugh hearing where over 300 protestors were arrested:
...
Elizabeth Warren stirring up the demonstrators:
...
More Kavanaugh Protestors:

But as rawma alludes to, the Kavanaugh protests were entirely peaceful - the arrests were for crowding or obstructing at most. As far as I know, no officers were injured, and there was no property damage. If the Jan 6 protests had been like this, Trump's supporters would have looked a lot better.

At least in my parallel, there were officers injured and property damage.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 10, 2021, 10:04:07 PM
I think the closest equivalent to storming the DC Capitol would be the Seattle riots that overran the Capitol Hill police station. (And the names make it an appropriate parallel.) But that was vastly smaller scale than the DC Capitol.

If you want to compare storming of the Capitol then we all remember the Kavanaugh hearing where over 300 protestors were arrested:
...
Elizabeth Warren stirring up the demonstrators:
...
More Kavanaugh Protestors:

But as rawma alludes to, the Kavanaugh protests were entirely peaceful - the arrests were for crowding or obstructing at most. As far as I know, no officers were injured, and there was no property damage. If the Jan 6 protests had been like this, Trump's supporters would have looked a lot better.

At least in my parallel, there were officers injured and property damage.

You dont have over 300 people arrested at an entirely peaceful protest.

And as for property damage, you have insurance, right?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 10, 2021, 10:44:36 PM
But as rawma alludes to, the Kavanaugh protests were entirely peaceful - the arrests were for crowding or obstructing at most. As far as I know, no officers were injured, and there was no property damage. If the Jan 6 protests had been like this, Trump's supporters would have looked a lot better.

At least in my parallel, there were officers injured and property damage.

You dont have over 300 people arrested at an entirely peaceful protest.

And as for property damage, you have insurance, right?

The crimes they were arrested and charged with were "crowding, obstruction, or incommoding" along with "unlawful conduct" and "disorderly conduct". As far as I know, this was all done within areas legally accessible to the public. They walked in and stood there, holding signs and chanting or yelling. That is what I would call non-violent protest, like what was done by MLK Jr and the SNCC in the 1960s, which also had mass arrests.

They never pushed or struck any officers or other people.

If you disagree, could you specify what violent activities were committed?

Sources:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/capitol-police-arrest-101-people-in-washington-dc-amid-kavanaugh-protests
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/73-arrested-charged-amid-protests-at-kavanaugh-hearings
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/410015-capitol-police-make-over-300-arrests-during-anti-kavanaugh-protests
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Spinachcat on January 10, 2021, 11:35:58 PM
BLM riots = doubleplusgood
Trump "riot" = doubleplusbad

Civil war and/or national collapse has been earned mightily.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 11, 2021, 01:41:41 AM
BLM riots = doubleplusgood
Trump "riot" = doubleplusbad

I'd say: as far as actions done (leaving aside the cause), the various BLM protests and riots were mixed with some good and some bad (violent/non-violent). Trump protests have also been mixed and mostly good, but specifically storming the Capitol was worse than any single BLM event.

The Kavanaugh protests were purely non-violent. That doesn't mean that the protesters were right - just that how they conducted their protest was good.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 11, 2021, 03:09:33 AM
BLM riots = doubleplusgood
Trump "riot" = doubleplusbad

Civil war and/or national collapse has been earned mightily.

Greetings!

Indeed, Spinachcat! The Democrats sniveling corruption, duplicitous hypocrisy, and pursuit of tyranny is not going to end well. Civil War or national collapse.

The protestors at the Capital building are a good example--more will come. Next time, people will say fuck it, Marxism is here. Time to stand against tyranny, and bring guns.

"The underlying context needs to be understood! Protesters are expressing their pain, and anger at injustice and oppression! We need to listen to them, and take them seriously." And Chris Cuomo, lecturing America on national television to the great applause and support from Liberals, saying that "Who said protests have to be polite and peaceful?" That is what Democrats have all been saying about BLM and ANTIFA rioters for months

The Democrats keep cock-sucking for Marxism, we are likely to see the Troubles of Ireland breaking out all over the country. People being flame-throwered, mobbed and beaten to death, assassinated by snipers, blown the fuck up in bombs. Every week, every month, bodies will be hitting the floor. High and low, no one will be safe from the wrath and Hell that's coming.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Daztur on January 11, 2021, 03:15:31 AM
The protestors at the Capital building are a good example--more will come.

And how many cops will they murder next time?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 11, 2021, 04:25:42 AM
The protestors at the Capital building are a good example--more will come.

And how many cops will they murder next time?

Greetings!

Well, as other posters have mentioned--I think it was Pat--there is certainly questions about whether the Capital police officer died from some other cause. In any event, if there is a person that is found to be guilty of assault and murder--then such a person will be prosecuted. I have heard that the Capital police officer's family have stated that their police officer died from pre-existing medical conditions, and was not murdered by anyone.

Then, of course, why are the Leftists not screaming about how a Capital police officer shot and murdered US Air Force veteran, Ashli Babbit, who was unarmed. Such an example of excessive force, right? That Capital police officer didn't have to resort to deadly force, as Ashli Babbit was unarmed, and not a threat to anyone.

Right, that is essentially the same argument made by Leftists concerning many of the BLM and ANTIFA people, and others involved with various incidents involving law enforcement.

I wonder how many BLM and ANTFA members were prosecuted for murder during the months of violent rioting, burning, and looting that gripped America for these past many months?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Spinachcat on January 11, 2021, 04:27:36 AM
January 6th will live in infamy because it was the Unveiling. The unbelievably and grotesquely obvious election fraud is the ultimate litmus test - do you stand by the theft of a Presidential election or not? And we got the answers.

NOW everyone knows who are the Patriots vs. the Traitors, and no Republican voter can make believe their party leadership stands for anything remotely American. No Democrat can pretend they have the slightest integrity. It's ONLY about a power grab and subjugation of wrongthinkers.

1/6 was the axe that divides America forever. Everyone knows where they stand - and THAT is powerful.

All that's left is the divorce or the slaughter.


Trump protests have also been mixed and mostly good, but specifically storming the Capitol was worse than any single BLM event.

Kinda hard to "storm the Capitol" when the guards open the doors for you.

And its a shame you don't have a business I can loot and burn down "for racial justice" so you can tell me how Trump's protest was so much worse than any BLM event.


And how many cops will they murder next time?

All of them? That's how an actual coup works in the real world.

But why would cops even be there under Dementia JoJo? I thought we had to Defund the Police and replace them with social workers?

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: deadDMwalking on January 11, 2021, 06:45:59 AM
I disagree with 'obvious and grotesque election fraud'.

There is no evidence of fraud.  Claims of fraud have been investigated.  Most of the states where fraud has been claimed - all of which are battleground states that showed Biden with a lead in pre-election polling - have Republican officials in charge of the elections.

Prior to the election, Trump claimed that it was fraud if he lost.  It would have been appropriate to take actions to prevent fraud.  Nearly every single court case was decided along the lines of 'if this was unfair you should have brought it up BEFORE the election'.  None of those contentions are actually of fraud - just states running their elections following the rule of law as they do.  Post-election, Trump demanding that states like Georgia 'find the votes' to put him in the lead are criminal attempts at stealing an election. 

The Republican secretary of state submitted a point-by-point rebuttal of every single claim.  These things are not complicated. 

The one consistent message is that every year a small number of fraudulent votes are initially counted - but they are investigated and dealt with and they are not enough to swing an election.  Not in a single state and not nationally.  While polling may have failed to capture Trump's full support (which was a major point of discussion) our best models and tools indicated this would be a close election in the Electoral College, but not in the popular vote.  That's exactly what happened.

Republican attempts to disenfranchise millions of Americans for voting their conscience are traitorous.  Our officials take an oath to uphold the constitution.  Elections are integral to the Democratic process.  Throwing out the results of this election without any evidence of fraud would not magically make things 'fair' - how would you be certain that your new 'chosen results actually reflect the will of the people?  These things can't be decided by 'feelz'.

Prior conversations about California and 'coastal elites' acknowledge that a huge chunk of this country subscribes to Democratic philosophies.  There were a few states that flipped from Trump to Biden - those states had been won by Trump by relatively small margins (some razor thin) and conventional wisdom has been that demographic changes would erase those margins.

It is not controversial that older and more religious voters are staunchly Republican, and minorities and younger voters lean Democrat.  Demographic shifts explain just about everything we saw in 2020.  There is no conspiracy required.  There was no fraud required. 

Disregarding election results because you don't like them is Un-american.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 11, 2021, 06:48:43 AM
BLM riots = doubleplusgood
Trump "riot" = doubleplusbad

I'd say: as far as actions done (leaving aside the cause), the various BLM protests and riots were mixed with some good and some bad (violent/non-violent). Trump protests have also been mixed and mostly good, but specifically storming the Capitol was worse than any single BLM event.


Ahhh...the old 'terrorism is ok as long as I agree with their political motives' defense.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 11, 2021, 06:51:13 AM
Interesting comment, in the New York Times, about Pelosi's attempt to get the Joint Chiefs to take away Trump's powers as Commander in Chief:
Quote from: NYT, Jan. 8, 2021
Speaker Nancy Pelosi of California on Friday took the unprecedented step of asking the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff about “available precautions” to prevent President Trump from initiating military action abroad or using his sole authority to launch nuclear weapons in the last days of his term.

In a phone call to the chairman, Gen. Mark A. Milley, Ms. Pelosi appeared to be seeking to have the Pentagon leadership essentially remove Mr. Trump from his authorities as the commander in chief. That could be accomplished by ignoring the president’s orders or slowing them by questioning whether they were issued legally.

But General Milley appears to have made no commitments. Short of the cabinet invoking the 25th Amendment or removing Mr. Trump through impeachment in the House and conviction in the Senate, it is unconstitutional to defy legal orders from the commander in chief.

Ms. Pelosi’s request, which she announced to the Democratic caucus as an effort to prevent “an unhinged president” from using the nuclear codes, was wrapped in the politics of seeking a second impeachment of Mr. Trump.

Col. Dave Butler, a spokesman for General Milley, confirmed that the phone call with the speaker had taken place but described it as informational. “He answered her questions regarding the process of nuclear command authority,” he said.

But some Defense Department officials clearly resented being asked to act outside of the legal authority of the 25th Amendment and saw it as more evidence of a broken political system. They said that some political leaders were trying to get the Pentagon to do the work of Congress and cabinet secretaries, who have legal options to remove a president.

Mr. Trump, they noted, is still the commander in chief; unless he is removed, the military is bound to follow his lawful orders. While military officials can refuse to carry out orders they view as illegal — or slow the process by sending those orders for careful legal review — they cannot remove the president from the chain of command. That would amount to a military coup, the officials said.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/us/politics/trump-pelosi-nuclear-military.html
There's that word "coup" again. This time talking about Pelosi, and coming from top military officials.

Even Vox criticized her actions, with very strong language:
Quote from: Vox, Jan. 8, 2021
“This morning, I spoke to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley to discuss available precautions for preventing an unstable president from initiating military hostilities or accessing the launch codes and ordering a nuclear strike,” Pelosi wrote.

She later told House Democrats on a call that Milley assured her there are safeguards in place to prevent the president from ordering an illegal nuclear strike, USA Today reported. (A Joint Chiefs spokesperson later confirmed that Milley had spoken with Pelosi: “Speaker Pelosi initiated a call with the Chairman. He answered her questions regarding the process of nuclear command authority.”)

It’s understandable that his critics on the Hill — who were hunkered down in the belly of the Capitol while Trump’s supporters raided their offices Wednesday — would be tempted to snatch the president’s keys to the “red button.”

But the House speaker does not have the authority to try to keep the nuclear codes from Trump. Like it or not, the president of the United States has sole authority to launch a nuclear weapon.

Pelosi knows this full well — and that’s the point.

The move was political, a way to gin up support for the new Democratic push to impeach Trump over his incitement of the violence that occurred at the US Capitol on Wednesday. (The Washington insider newsletter Punchbowl reported Friday that some Republicans would be “sure to support the move” to impeach.)

Pelosi is a savvy political operator, and painting Trump as not just unhinged but an imminent threat to global security is certainly a way to heighten pressure on members of Congress to support impeachment.

But in this case, Pelosi is playing with literal fire.

Using the US nuclear command-and-control system for politics undermines the longstanding US approach to dissuading foreign adversaries from attacking the United States with nuclear weapons.

The president, as commander in chief, has sole authority to launch a nuclear weapon for an important reason: speed. In order to deter an adversary from launching nukes at the US, the thinking goes, they need to know that the US can send one (or more, potentially a lot more) right back at them, even before the enemy nukes get close to the US.

The idea is that knowing the US can obliterate a country no matter what, even if the US is attacked with nukes itself, will prevent a country from ever trying it.
https://www.vox.com/22220989/trump-nuclear-codes-pelosi-impeachment
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Melan on January 11, 2021, 06:52:39 AM
If the American elite had actual wisdom, they would try to defuse this any way they could, deescalate, and offer an olive branch; hell, they would never have overreached. Trump and his movement would have faded; scandals would have tarnished his image for a few decades (before getting reappraised as an ultimately decent president hamstrung by a scheming bureaucracy), and a lighter version of his brand could have been assimilated into the political class, by someone like President Tucker, or one of the smarter young Republicans. Instead, they just turned the heat to from "frog-boiling" to the max, because they are afraid, and drunk with visions of revenge. This is how weak, scared men consolidate their rule, and create a myriad grievances.

Back Trump and US conservatives into a corner; create a pressure cooker atmosphere, and tear down their illusions of being invested in the system and in control of their own destiny - where every bankrupted small businessman would still have a fanatical belief in the free market and the cops and the courts. Expose these guys to the previously fringe idea that the state is in the hands of aliens who want them gone, and "these people want you broke, dead, your kids raped and brainwashed, and they think it's funny".

This will simmer for a while - might be a few years, honestly, while the anger accummulates - and explode in a phenomenally ugly fashion when it is least expected. History proves ruling over a people against its values it is not a stable way of governance. They will not rule over America for long. This will be over in 8-10 years, tops.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 11, 2021, 07:04:53 AM
For those of you who believe 'credentials' add some kind of level of wisdom, I present Keith Boykin.

Graduated from Harvard. But evidently has major amnesia, or at the least can't pick up a book.

https://gunfreezone.net/graduated-from-harvard-works-at-cnn-wrote-a-book-knows-nothing/

'Durr, what if Al Sharpton led a rally and a riot broke out?'
'....Well, he did. Twice. And has never been charged. He's also evaded civil judgements against him by arranging his assets such that he doesn't actually -own- anything.'
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 11, 2021, 07:08:59 AM
Aaaaannnnd... Parler's gone.

As of a little after 3 am (EST), apparently. It was hosted on Amazon (their cloud-based webservice AWS, most likely), and they suspended the service "after finding 98 posts that supported violence".

https://www.newsweek.com/parler-users-say-goodbyes-site-taken-down-1560428

We're living in crazy times.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 11, 2021, 07:23:48 AM
And now the president-elect has compared sitting US senators to Nazis.
 
Reporter: Do you think some of them resign? Should Senator Cruz or Senator Hawley resign?
Biden: I think they should be flat beaten the next time they run. I think the American public has a real good clear look at who they are. They’re part of the big lie. The big lie. Goebbels and the great lie. You keep repeating the lie.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2021/01/08/biden-likens-ted-cruz-to-nazi-propagandist-goebbels-for-helping-trump-spread-big-lie-about-election-fraud/

Why yes, Godwinning your opponents is a way of calling for unity and reconciliation.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 11, 2021, 07:33:10 AM
Greetings!

The preponderance of evidence shows there is fraud and corruption. Legitimate and thorough investigations need to be made--and have not been. Having controlling Democrats and RINO's in various offices claim that they have investigated is laughable, and means nothing. All of America and even people around the world know that the 2020 elections have been an absolute corrupt mess. Justice needs to prevail. No one gives a fuck if some jello-filled Marxists believe that Biden won and the election was fine--75 million Americans think they are full of shit and corrupt as fuck. Oh, that's right, why might that be? Again, review what the cock-sucking Democrats have done over the last four years, hand in hand with a corrupt, lying media. Review how Biden hardly campaigned at all. Review how several state's Governors, Attorney Generals, and Secretary of States have violated their own constitution and changed election laws and procedures in entirely unconstitutional manner. Review how 5 or six of the battleground states all stopped voting at approximately the same time in the late night--when Trump was ahead by large margins--and then in the morning, somehow Biden had won. Think about the cacophony of all of these media outlets and politicians braying for people to shut up, sit down, there's no fraud! Nothing to see here! Then, look at absolute censorship and tyranny breaking out in society and online--with people being censored, banned, and shut down because they don't swallow down the cock-sucking Marxist narrative.

Fucking Marxists need to be resisted. If the President of the United States can be censored, what does that mean for anyone else? Marxism, tyranny, censorship and oppression is right here, right now, and rushing America stronger by the day.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 11, 2021, 07:46:32 AM
Interesting comment, in the New York Times, about Pelosi's attempt to get the Joint Chiefs to take away Trump's powers as Commander in Chief:
Quote from: NYT, Jan. 8, 2021
Speaker Nancy Pelosi of California on Friday took the unprecedented step of asking the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff about “available precautions” to prevent President Trump from initiating military action abroad or using his sole authority to launch nuclear weapons in the last days of his term.

In a phone call to the chairman, Gen. Mark A. Milley, Ms. Pelosi appeared to be seeking to have the Pentagon leadership essentially remove Mr. Trump from his authorities as the commander in chief. That could be accomplished by ignoring the president’s orders or slowing them by questioning whether they were issued legally.

But General Milley appears to have made no commitments. Short of the cabinet invoking the 25th Amendment or removing Mr. Trump through impeachment in the House and conviction in the Senate, it is unconstitutional to defy legal orders from the commander in chief.

Ms. Pelosi’s request, which she announced to the Democratic caucus as an effort to prevent “an unhinged president” from using the nuclear codes, was wrapped in the politics of seeking a second impeachment of Mr. Trump.

Col. Dave Butler, a spokesman for General Milley, confirmed that the phone call with the speaker had taken place but described it as informational. “He answered her questions regarding the process of nuclear command authority,” he said.

But some Defense Department officials clearly resented being asked to act outside of the legal authority of the 25th Amendment and saw it as more evidence of a broken political system. They said that some political leaders were trying to get the Pentagon to do the work of Congress and cabinet secretaries, who have legal options to remove a president.

Mr. Trump, they noted, is still the commander in chief; unless he is removed, the military is bound to follow his lawful orders. While military officials can refuse to carry out orders they view as illegal — or slow the process by sending those orders for careful legal review — they cannot remove the president from the chain of command. That would amount to a military coup, the officials said.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/us/politics/trump-pelosi-nuclear-military.html
There's that word "coup" again. This time talking about Pelosi, and coming from top military officials.

Even Vox criticized her actions, with very strong language:
Quote from: Vox, Jan. 8, 2021
“This morning, I spoke to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley to discuss available precautions for preventing an unstable president from initiating military hostilities or accessing the launch codes and ordering a nuclear strike,” Pelosi wrote.

She later told House Democrats on a call that Milley assured her there are safeguards in place to prevent the president from ordering an illegal nuclear strike, USA Today reported. (A Joint Chiefs spokesperson later confirmed that Milley had spoken with Pelosi: “Speaker Pelosi initiated a call with the Chairman. He answered her questions regarding the process of nuclear command authority.”)

It’s understandable that his critics on the Hill — who were hunkered down in the belly of the Capitol while Trump’s supporters raided their offices Wednesday — would be tempted to snatch the president’s keys to the “red button.”

But the House speaker does not have the authority to try to keep the nuclear codes from Trump. Like it or not, the president of the United States has sole authority to launch a nuclear weapon.

Pelosi knows this full well — and that’s the point.

The move was political, a way to gin up support for the new Democratic push to impeach Trump over his incitement of the violence that occurred at the US Capitol on Wednesday. (The Washington insider newsletter Punchbowl reported Friday that some Republicans would be “sure to support the move” to impeach.)

Pelosi is a savvy political operator, and painting Trump as not just unhinged but an imminent threat to global security is certainly a way to heighten pressure on members of Congress to support impeachment.

But in this case, Pelosi is playing with literal fire.

Using the US nuclear command-and-control system for politics undermines the longstanding US approach to dissuading foreign adversaries from attacking the United States with nuclear weapons.

The president, as commander in chief, has sole authority to launch a nuclear weapon for an important reason: speed. In order to deter an adversary from launching nukes at the US, the thinking goes, they need to know that the US can send one (or more, potentially a lot more) right back at them, even before the enemy nukes get close to the US.

The idea is that knowing the US can obliterate a country no matter what, even if the US is attacked with nukes itself, will prevent a country from ever trying it.
https://www.vox.com/22220989/trump-nuclear-codes-pelosi-impeachment

Greetings!

It would be very interesting if President Trump signs the Insurrection Act and Nancy Polosi and others are arrested for Sedition and Treason.

Twitter, Google, all of them could be seized and confiscated by the government. Imagine how all of the Marxists would be REEEing.

So many corrupt politicians and bureaucrats in Washington. They need to be cleaned out.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 11, 2021, 08:06:17 AM
BLM riots = doubleplusgood
Trump "riot" = doubleplusbad

Civil war and/or national collapse has been earned mightily.

Correct.

And these double standard are precisely how the dominant society has always treated the undesired marginalized groups throughout history, by the way.

Rosa Parks got famous cuz she wouldn't go to the back of the bus, like she was supposed to. How dare she even sit in the front? Right now, there are THOUSANDS of Trump supporters and wrong thinkers being purged from social media. Alternatives to those sites are also being purged as well. People are even talking about denying Trump and his supporters BANKING services and removing them from the economy. There is NOWHERE to go. Trump supporters and people who don't agree with the establishment aren't being told that they need to go to the back of the bus. They're being told they don't have a right to even be in one.

And as much as the ignorant credulous idiots would like to see social media and the internet as this frivolous, optional thing that didn't even exist a couple decades ago, neither did cars (or busses) at one point. And the internet is the greatest, most powerful invention and communications tool in the entire span of human history. Right now there are people from all over the world posting near-instant messages right on this very forum. People from across the globe are doing lifestreams and having life discussions in real time for thousands of people across the planet. Businesses are still flourishing even throughout the lockdowns if they were smart enough and able to develop some type of online presence were they could sell their goods and services, which they can sell, not only to those within walking or driving distance of their business establishment, but to anyone in the entire world. Entire elections have been decided for decades, going back to Obama, by social media presence, advertisement and engagement. The internet is the future and we're living in the Information Age. If you don't have access to it you mean NOTHING.

I know that some Trump supporters may not like to hear this word or apply it to themselves given how SJWs have completely wipe their butts with it, and that people have been conditioned to believe that it can only ever apply to certain groups or races in society (particularly in the US)--never to "white people", but Trump supporters are being OPPRESSED in the literal meaning of the word. They're being treated as second class fucking subhumans cuz they had the audacity to rise up and voice their concerns, and are being denied the right to ever voice their grievances or participate in the political process in any meaningful way, or even participate in the online economy in the information era, while their political opposition gets to keep theirs.

But what's important to remember is that the storming of the Capitol was the worse attack in US history...cuz it was the wrong people doing it.

And how dare they?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 11, 2021, 08:12:43 AM
Greetings!

The preponderance of evidence shows there is fraud and corruption. Legitimate and thorough investigations need to be made--and have not been. Having controlling Democrats and RINO's in various offices claim that they have investigated is laughable, and means nothing. All of America and even people around the world know that the 2020 elections have been an absolute corrupt mess. Justice needs to prevail. No one gives a fuck if some jello-filled Marxists believe that Biden won and the election was fine--75 million Americans think they are full of shit and corrupt as fuck. Oh, that's right, why might that be? Again, review what the cock-sucking Democrats have done over the last four years, hand in hand with a corrupt, lying media. Review how Biden hardly campaigned at all. Review how several state's Governors, Attorney Generals, and Secretary of States have violated their own constitution and changed election laws and procedures in entirely unconstitutional manner. Review how 5 or six of the battleground states all stopped voting at approximately the same time in the late night--when Trump was ahead by large margins--and then in the morning, somehow Biden had won. Think about the cacophony of all of these media outlets and politicians braying for people to shut up, sit down, there's no fraud! Nothing to see here! Then, look at absolute censorship and tyranny breaking out in society and online--with people being censored, banned, and shut down because they don't swallow down the cock-sucking Marxist narrative.

Fucking Marxists need to be resisted. If the President of the United States can be censored, what does that mean for anyone else? Marxism, tyranny, censorship and oppression is right here, right now, and rushing America stronger by the day.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
You are a delusional idiot. Everything you posted is pure crap propaganda and lies.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Abraxus on January 11, 2021, 08:42:06 AM
Ahhh...the old 'terrorism is ok as long as I agree with their political motives' defense.

Big time

It's pretty much the excuse many on of my friends and those I follow on Facebook used to "chastise" me so to speak when I called the Left publicly out on the platform. It's all well and good for Burn, Loot and Murder as well as Thugtifa to do the same as the protesters because it follows their narratives and political beliefs. The Left has lost the moral high ground completely. I am against that kind of violence from both sides don't try and con me into thinking one side is right because it's the favored site because of reasons and feelzs and nothing else. In any case most of them have proven to me to be armchair rioters and terrorists. If both of the groups went and attacked them or their businesses they would shit their pants and run away while also crying out for the police. Who many also want and still want defunded.   
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 11, 2021, 08:57:39 AM
Greetings!

The preponderance of evidence shows there is fraud and corruption. Legitimate and thorough investigations need to be made--and have not been. Having controlling Democrats and RINO's in various offices claim that they have investigated is laughable, and means nothing. All of America and even people around the world know that the 2020 elections have been an absolute corrupt mess. Justice needs to prevail. No one gives a fuck if some jello-filled Marxists believe that Biden won and the election was fine--75 million Americans think they are full of shit and corrupt as fuck. Oh, that's right, why might that be? Again, review what the cock-sucking Democrats have done over the last four years, hand in hand with a corrupt, lying media. Review how Biden hardly campaigned at all. Review how several state's Governors, Attorney Generals, and Secretary of States have violated their own constitution and changed election laws and procedures in entirely unconstitutional manner. Review how 5 or six of the battleground states all stopped voting at approximately the same time in the late night--when Trump was ahead by large margins--and then in the morning, somehow Biden had won. Think about the cacophony of all of these media outlets and politicians braying for people to shut up, sit down, there's no fraud! Nothing to see here! Then, look at absolute censorship and tyranny breaking out in society and online--with people being censored, banned, and shut down because they don't swallow down the cock-sucking Marxist narrative.

Fucking Marxists need to be resisted. If the President of the United States can be censored, what does that mean for anyone else? Marxism, tyranny, censorship and oppression is right here, right now, and rushing America stronger by the day.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
You are a delusional idiot. Everything you posted is pure crap propaganda and lies.

Greetings!

Keep on Reeing like the wormy fuckstick you are. Everything I said is truth.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 11, 2021, 09:01:10 AM
BLM riots = doubleplusgood
Trump "riot" = doubleplusbad

Civil war and/or national collapse has been earned mightily.

Correct.

And these double standard are precisely how the dominant society has always treated the undesired marginalized groups throughout history, by the way.

Rosa Parks got famous cuz she wouldn't go to the back of the bus, like she was supposed to. How dare she even sit in the front? Right now, there are THOUSANDS of Trump supporters and wrong thinkers being purged from social media. Alternatives to those sites are also being purged as well. People are even talking about denying Trump and his supporters BANKING services and removing them from the economy. There is NOWHERE to go. Trump supporters and people who don't agree with the establishment aren't being told that they need to go to the back of the bus. They're being told they don't have a right to even be in one.

And as much as the ignorant credulous idiots would like to see social media and the internet as this frivolous, optional thing that didn't even exist a couple decades ago, neither did cars (or busses) at one point. And the internet is the greatest, most powerful invention and communications tool in the entire span of human history. Right now there are people from all over the world posting near-instant messages right on this very forum. People from across the globe are doing lifestreams and having life discussions in real time for thousands of people across the planet. Businesses are still flourishing even throughout the lockdowns if they were smart enough and able to develop some type of online presence were they could sell their goods and services, which they can sell, not only to those within walking or driving distance of their business establishment, but to anyone in the entire world. Entire elections have been decided for decades, going back to Obama, by social media presence, advertisement and engagement. The internet is the future and we're living in the Information Age. If you don't have access to it you mean NOTHING.

I know that some Trump supporters may not like to hear this word or apply it to themselves given how SJWs have completely wipe their butts with it, and that people have been conditioned to believe that it can only ever apply to certain groups or races in society (particularly in the US)--never to "white people", but Trump supporters are being OPPRESSED in the literal meaning of the word. They're being treated as second class fucking subhumans cuz they had the audacity to rise up and voice their concerns, and are being denied the right to ever voice their grievances or participate in the political process in any meaningful way, or even participate in the online economy in the information era, while their political opposition gets to keep theirs.

But what's important to remember is that the storming of the Capitol was the worse attack in US history...cuz it was the wrong people doing it.

And how dare they?

Greetings!

Damn straight, Visionstorm! Censorship, tyranny and oppression is right here in our face. Marxists are just fine with oppressing patriots. They hate America, they hate Conservatives, and they hate President Trump.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 11, 2021, 09:01:27 AM
Remember how I remarked on the curiousity of John Earle Sullivan being present in DC on 1/6?

Seems he was doing a bit more than just filming.

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2021/1/7/22219733/utah-activist-inside-u-s-capitol-says-woman-killed-was-first-to-try-and-enter-house-chamber-sullivan

So does he get a pass, because he has 'the right politics'?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 11, 2021, 09:20:11 AM
Remember how I remarked on the curiousity of John Earle Sullivan being present in DC on 1/6?

Seems he was doing a bit more than just filming.

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2021/1/7/22219733/utah-activist-inside-u-s-capitol-says-woman-killed-was-first-to-try-and-enter-house-chamber-sullivan

So does he get a pass, because he has 'the right politics'?

Greetings!

That's right, Ghostmaker. Very suspicious. He's a member of ANTIFA. The FBI can make all the claims they want that they don't think ANTIFA members or BLM were at the rally all they want. Like we can believe anything the fucking FBI says? They've been compromised and subverted. I have heard many people saying that ANTIFA were present. Hell, lots and lots of people--long before the rally and protest event occurred--like weeks beforehand, were discussing intelligence that ANTIFA had plans to infiltrate the rally, and seek to cause problems.

Then, I have also seen live video where hundreds of people are chanting, "NO ANTIFA! NO ANTIFA!" and "DON'T BREAK THE WINDOWS!" Yeah, MAGA patriots there, encouraging everyone to remain peaceful and non-violent. But of course, you won't see or hear any of that from CNN and all these cock-sucking Marxists that hate America.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 11, 2021, 09:25:10 AM
Greetings!

The preponderance of evidence shows there is fraud and corruption. Legitimate and thorough investigations need to be made--and have not been. Having controlling Democrats and RINO's in various offices claim that they have investigated is laughable, and means nothing. All of America and even people around the world know that the 2020 elections have been an absolute corrupt mess. Justice needs to prevail. No one gives a fuck if some jello-filled Marxists believe that Biden won and the election was fine--75 million Americans think they are full of shit and corrupt as fuck. Oh, that's right, why might that be? Again, review what the cock-sucking Democrats have done over the last four years, hand in hand with a corrupt, lying media. Review how Biden hardly campaigned at all. Review how several state's Governors, Attorney Generals, and Secretary of States have violated their own constitution and changed election laws and procedures in entirely unconstitutional manner. Review how 5 or six of the battleground states all stopped voting at approximately the same time in the late night--when Trump was ahead by large margins--and then in the morning, somehow Biden had won. Think about the cacophony of all of these media outlets and politicians braying for people to shut up, sit down, there's no fraud! Nothing to see here! Then, look at absolute censorship and tyranny breaking out in society and online--with people being censored, banned, and shut down because they don't swallow down the cock-sucking Marxist narrative.

Fucking Marxists need to be resisted. If the President of the United States can be censored, what does that mean for anyone else? Marxism, tyranny, censorship and oppression is right here, right now, and rushing America stronger by the day.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
You are a delusional idiot. Everything you posted is pure crap propaganda and lies.

Greetings!

Keep on Reeing like the wormy fuckstick you are. Everything I said is truth.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
You're the idiot going off like a violence-loving proponent of flat Earth theories. The nonsense you're peddling has stood up just as well as that load of bullshit. But you just keep on braying like the traitorous dumb ass you've proven yourself to be.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 11, 2021, 10:11:39 AM
Greetings!

The preponderance of evidence shows there is fraud and corruption. Legitimate and thorough investigations need to be made--and have not been. Having controlling Democrats and RINO's in various offices claim that they have investigated is laughable, and means nothing. All of America and even people around the world know that the 2020 elections have been an absolute corrupt mess. Justice needs to prevail. No one gives a fuck if some jello-filled Marxists believe that Biden won and the election was fine--75 million Americans think they are full of shit and corrupt as fuck. Oh, that's right, why might that be? Again, review what the cock-sucking Democrats have done over the last four years, hand in hand with a corrupt, lying media. Review how Biden hardly campaigned at all. Review how several state's Governors, Attorney Generals, and Secretary of States have violated their own constitution and changed election laws and procedures in entirely unconstitutional manner. Review how 5 or six of the battleground states all stopped voting at approximately the same time in the late night--when Trump was ahead by large margins--and then in the morning, somehow Biden had won. Think about the cacophony of all of these media outlets and politicians braying for people to shut up, sit down, there's no fraud! Nothing to see here! Then, look at absolute censorship and tyranny breaking out in society and online--with people being censored, banned, and shut down because they don't swallow down the cock-sucking Marxist narrative.

Fucking Marxists need to be resisted. If the President of the United States can be censored, what does that mean for anyone else? Marxism, tyranny, censorship and oppression is right here, right now, and rushing America stronger by the day.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
You are a delusional idiot. Everything you posted is pure crap propaganda and lies.

Greetings!

Keep on Reeing like the wormy fuckstick you are. Everything I said is truth.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
You're the idiot going off like a violence-loving proponent of flat Earth theories. The nonsense you're peddling has stood up just as well as that load of bullshit. But you just keep on braying like the traitorous dumb ass you've proven yourself to be.

Greetings!

Everything I mentioned in the post is TRUTH. Senators, Congress people, numerous witnesses and analysts all support what I have said. Millions and millions of patriotic Americans also want real investigations done. For the last four years, the Democrats and the MSM have done nothing but spew absolute hateful propaganda and lies. You are in denial, you are blind, and delusional.

I haven't shown myself to be a traitor to anything, fucking moron. I support America, our Constitution, and President Trump. I have also carried a rifle and defended my country. I have not just *talked* about supporting America--I've done it, you wormy, pathetic fuck. I have jumped out of helicopters for this country, and put my ass on the wall, serving America.

Get fucked.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 11, 2021, 10:13:13 AM
Greetings!

Here is a beautiful and inspiring video.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 11, 2021, 10:23:43 AM
Hey guys, remember back when dissent was patriotic, up to and including subverting the President's perogatives on foreign policy, full on invasions of capitol buildings in protest of a SCOTUS nomination, and technical violations of the Boland and Logan Acts?

Pepperidge Farms remembers. And so do I.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: tenbones on January 11, 2021, 10:53:34 AM
Cumulus Media just put a gag on all conservative talk-show hosts about election fraud discussion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/media/cumulus-radio-conservative-election-fraud/2021/01/11/e12ec46e-537c-11eb-a817-e5e7f8a406d6_story.html

That includes Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin and pretty much most of the 'Right' leaning talk-show personalities. Straight up ultimatum that if they say anything about election fraud they will be terminated immediately.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 11, 2021, 11:04:32 AM
Greetings!

The preponderance of evidence shows there is fraud and corruption. Legitimate and thorough investigations need to be made--and have not been. Having controlling Democrats and RINO's in various offices claim that they have investigated is laughable, and means nothing. All of America and even people around the world know that the 2020 elections have been an absolute corrupt mess. Justice needs to prevail. No one gives a fuck if some jello-filled Marxists believe that Biden won and the election was fine--75 million Americans think they are full of shit and corrupt as fuck. Oh, that's right, why might that be? Again, review what the cock-sucking Democrats have done over the last four years, hand in hand with a corrupt, lying media. Review how Biden hardly campaigned at all. Review how several state's Governors, Attorney Generals, and Secretary of States have violated their own constitution and changed election laws and procedures in entirely unconstitutional manner. Review how 5 or six of the battleground states all stopped voting at approximately the same time in the late night--when Trump was ahead by large margins--and then in the morning, somehow Biden had won. Think about the cacophony of all of these media outlets and politicians braying for people to shut up, sit down, there's no fraud! Nothing to see here! Then, look at absolute censorship and tyranny breaking out in society and online--with people being censored, banned, and shut down because they don't swallow down the cock-sucking Marxist narrative.

Fucking Marxists need to be resisted. If the President of the United States can be censored, what does that mean for anyone else? Marxism, tyranny, censorship and oppression is right here, right now, and rushing America stronger by the day.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
You are a delusional idiot. Everything you posted is pure crap propaganda and lies.

Greetings!

Keep on Reeing like the wormy fuckstick you are. Everything I said is truth.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
You're the idiot going off like a violence-loving proponent of flat Earth theories. The nonsense you're peddling has stood up just as well as that load of bullshit. But you just keep on braying like the traitorous dumb ass you've proven yourself to be.

Greetings!

Everything I mentioned in the post is TRUTH. Senators, Congress people, numerous witnesses and analysts all support what I have said. Millions and millions of patriotic Americans also want real investigations done. For the last four years, the Democrats and the MSM have done nothing but spew absolute hateful propaganda and lies. You are in denial, you are blind, and delusional.

I haven't shown myself to be a traitor to anything, fucking moron. I support America, our Constitution, and President Trump. I have also carried a rifle and defended my country. I have not just *talked* about supporting America--I've done it, you wormy, pathetic fuck. I have jumped out of helicopters for this country, and put my ass on the wall, serving America.

Get fucked.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
And you've betrayed all of that to follow a pack of lying liars that endorse violence against Americans and attacks against America. Are you really so stupid? Oh well, at least you're all talk now, right?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 11, 2021, 11:08:21 AM
Cumulus Media just put a gag on all conservative talk-show hosts about election fraud discussion.

https://archive.vn/0rEEi

That includes Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin and pretty much most of the 'Right' leaning talk-show personalities. Straight up ultimatum that if they say anything about election fraud they will be terminated immediately.
Your link didn't work for me, but I found this:
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/talk-radio-owner-threatens-to-fire-hosts-who-dispute-election-results/ (https://www.nationalreview.com/news/talk-radio-owner-threatens-to-fire-hosts-who-dispute-election-results/)
Apparently it happened a little earlier than the Parler thing.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: tenbones on January 11, 2021, 11:15:02 AM
you know, I don't know why this is so difficult to simple take everyone at their word.

If you look at the Democrat leadership - they've been saying what they want to do for years. And they've proven to be willing to do anything outside whatever has been established as rules (because Republican establishment are morons for many reasons that have to do with them being as corrupt as Democrats but are shy about being open about it).

There has *never* been a time better to do all the things they want and established single-party rule than right now. But they gotta lock some things in.

Easy things they could do for themselves -

1) Guam, Puerto Rico statehood. D.C. will not happen. But Guam and Puerto Rico? Definitely possible. All the RINO's have more incentive to go Democrat on everything because the Republican's have cut their own throat. If successful, this will lock up the Senate for generations.

2) Amnesty. This should be a surprise to *no one*.

Big ticket things like Single-Payor, Green New Deal and shit like that would collapse the economy, so that would be a virtual guaranteed civil-unrest scenario (which may happen regardless).

But I hear all the current rhetoric of going after the NRA/2a, and all this censorship stuff - to me is strategically retarded. They would earn *nothing* in the system they pretend they want to overhaul but guaranteed insurgency going after those things when they could be locking up bigger things for themselves.

Either way, it's going to go down bad. There is no way the Democrat policy platform is digging out of this gaping hole in the Covid lockdown economy. Biden is already committing himself by his own words, to spending (printing) another trillion-dollars for "relief" - which means money for his donors, and foreign friends.

And let's face it, a trillion-more on the fire ain't gonna help anyone. And while bitcoin seems lucrative right now, the reality is if the Great Reset becomes a thing, there is no way they can allow any crypto-currency to exist outside of their control. So ride that wave while you can.

Or go full dwarven and go gold and silver (silver is particularly good right now).

The elites of both these parties are incompetent clowns. History has shown us all many many times that when the buffoonery at the top gets this dense, the only Great Reset that happens is the nasty kind. And always at our expense.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: tenbones on January 11, 2021, 11:16:43 AM
Cumulus Media just put a gag on all conservative talk-show hosts about election fraud discussion.

https://archive.vn/0rEEi

That includes Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin and pretty much most of the 'Right' leaning talk-show personalities. Straight up ultimatum that if they say anything about election fraud they will be terminated immediately.
Your link didn't work for me, but I found this:
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/talk-radio-owner-threatens-to-fire-hosts-who-dispute-election-results/ (https://www.nationalreview.com/news/talk-radio-owner-threatens-to-fire-hosts-who-dispute-election-results/)
Apparently it happened a little earlier than the Parler thing.

I put the original link. Yep same story.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 11, 2021, 11:17:08 AM
Trump protests have also been mixed and mostly good, but specifically storming the Capitol was worse than any single BLM event.

Kinda hard to "storm the Capitol" when the guards open the doors for you.

It seems to me that they are making the effort.




I'd say: as far as actions done (leaving aside the cause), the various BLM protests and riots were mixed with some good and some bad (violent/non-violent). Trump protests have also been mixed and mostly good, but specifically storming the Capitol was worse than any single BLM event.
Ahhh...the old 'terrorism is ok as long as I agree with their political motives' defense.
Big time

It's pretty much the excuse many on of my friends and those I follow on Facebook used to "chastise" me so to speak when I called the Left publicly out on the platform. It's all well and good for Burn, Loot and Murder as well as Thugtifa to do the same as the protesters because it follows their narratives and political beliefs.

I don't get how you read that from what I wrote. Terrorism is not OK in any case - and I am saying that violent BLM activities are wrong. Peaceful Trump demonstrations are good, and peaceful BLM demonstrations are good. If you think that there was a single BLM event that was worse than the Capitol storming, then specify it, and we can compare.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: tenbones on January 11, 2021, 11:25:55 AM
Does it matter?

Seriously - the only thing going on here is one side wants to use State power to destroy the other sides rioters/protestors.

You *do* realize that each side hates one another ideologically? And what that really spells as they draw state-power to enact their ideolgy?

But compare riots sounds like fun. But it also sounds a bit like building sandcastles as the high-tide comes in. (or tsunami if you prefer)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 11, 2021, 11:32:38 AM
But I hear all the current rhetoric of going after the NRA/2a, and all this censorship stuff - to me is strategically retarded. They would earn *nothing* in the system they pretend they want to overhaul but guaranteed insurgency going after those things when they could be locking up bigger things for themselves.
Part of that has to do with the NRA's current woes (mostly self inflicted, thanks LaPierre). For a -long- time, despite its flaws, the NRA was the 800 lb tank in the political arena, and it's caused the Dems numerous stomachaches. The chance to gut a long-standing enemy voting bloc is very attractive.

Of course, it hasn't dawned on them that there are other orgs who will happily pick up NRA members (SAF, GOA). Or that even if you kill the org, the members don't go away.

But the chance to disarm Americans and limit their ability to screw with their shenanigans is too much to pass up, I suppose.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: tenbones on January 11, 2021, 12:23:30 PM
I don't see the "opportunity" here.

NRA is just the big canary in the coal-mine. The people that lawfully own firearms are not going to all surreptitiously give up their arms. It's not going to happen. This is not the means to secure ones position, at least bureaucratically.

If they make this their first order of business - while everyone is red-hot, it would be complete folly. But I maintain that's likely what will happen because the elites in both parties have long overdosed on sniffing their own farts and drinking their own urine, and believing their own hype. And of course as the noble-class tends to do - they underestimate their situation like dogs chasing cars that actually have bitten the bumper.

Now what? Yeah, dummies, you're going for a drag.



Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 11, 2021, 01:00:44 PM
Me for half a decade now...



Also, we're slinking into a new kind of technocratic neo-fascism. Welcome to Cyberpunk.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 11, 2021, 01:24:19 PM
1) Guam, Puerto Rico statehood. D.C. will not happen. But Guam and Puerto Rico? Definitely possible. All the RINO's have more incentive to go Democrat on everything because the Republican's have cut their own throat. If successful, this will lock up the Senate for generations.

I wonder what would actually happen if Puerto Rico became a state. I know that people often think that we'd all vote Democrat, and that may well be the case, since we've been conditioned for decades to be dependent on the US and the Democratic party is the cornerstone for that dependency, and we've also been conditioned to believe that the US, and the Republican party in particular, is full of racists who would never accept us. But there's also a strong Christian social conservative contingent in the island, and they've been blocking progressive policies for decades. We haven't had any LGBT courses taught in schools here because the social conservative types keep blocking any efforts to institute them into the curriculum (which I have mixed feelings about, since I'm pro-LGBT, but anti-woke nonsense that get taught in those courses). I don't like them very much, since I've never been conservative and haven't been Christian for most of my life, and the idea makes me uncomfortable, but I wonder if the island can be flipped away from the Democratic party by appealing to the Christian social conservative side.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on January 11, 2021, 01:25:01 PM
January 6th will live in infamy because it was the Unveiling. The unbelievably and grotesquely obvious election fraud is the ultimate litmus test - do you stand by the theft of a Presidential election or not? And we got the answers.

NOW everyone knows who are the Patriots vs. the Traitors, and no Republican voter can make believe their party leadership stands for anything remotely American. No Democrat can pretend they have the slightest integrity. It's ONLY about a power grab and subjugation of wrongthinkers.

1/6 was the axe that divides America forever. Everyone knows where they stand - and THAT is powerful.

All that's left is the divorce or the slaughter.


Trump protests have also been mixed and mostly good, but specifically storming the Capitol was worse than any single BLM event.

Kinda hard to "storm the Capitol" when the guards open the doors for you.

And its a shame you don't have a business I can loot and burn down "for racial justice" so you can tell me how Trump's protest was so much worse than any BLM event.


And how many cops will they murder next time?

All of them? That's how an actual coup works in the real world.

But why would cops even be there under Dementia JoJo? I thought we had to Defund the Police and replace them with social workers?

You are so deeply out of touch these days:

(https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2021/01/capitol-attack-support-1024x675.png)


By the way, even among those who do not trust the election results, most still do not support what happened with the raid on the Capital. 35 percent of Americans don’t trust the election results. But only 8% support what happened at the Capital.

Yes, battle lines were drawn, and you chose the losing side. Like not even a question anymore, you're the loser in the room on this topic if you could only get 8% of America to side with your view. You can usually get more than 8% of America to side with ANY view. Make up any claim and poll on it and you can usually squeeze out more than 8% support on even the craziest position. That's how badly you lost this one.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 11, 2021, 01:49:35 PM
Aaaaannnnd... Parler's gone.

As of a little after 3 am (EST), apparently. It was hosted on Amazon (their cloud-based webservice AWS, most likely), and they suspended the service "after finding 98 posts that supported violence".

https://www.newsweek.com/parler-users-say-goodbyes-site-taken-down-1560428

We're living in crazy times.

Parler was already planning for that.  Their CEO (I believe, don't have time to track down the article) talked about it early yesterday or late Saturday and said they were already planning an alternative.

I am now officially getting worried.

They keep saying 'build your own', then they flout the law to prevent it...
Add in the establishment, pushing the throttle to the floor to raise the tension...


But I hear all the current rhetoric of going after the NRA/2a, and all this censorship stuff - to me is strategically retarded. They would earn *nothing* in the system they pretend they want to overhaul but guaranteed insurgency going after those things when they could be locking up bigger things for themselves.

If the American elite had actual wisdom, they would try to defuse this any way they could, deescalate, and offer an olive branch; hell, they would never have overreached. Trump and his movement would have faded; scandals would have tarnished his image for a few decades (before getting reappraised as an ultimately decent president hamstrung by a scheming bureaucracy), and a lighter version of his brand could have been assimilated into the political class, by someone like President Tucker, or one of the smarter young Republicans. Instead, they just turned the heat to from "frog-boiling" to the max, because they are afraid, and drunk with visions of revenge. This is how weak, scared men consolidate their rule, and create a myriad grievances.

Back Trump and US conservatives into a corner; create a pressure cooker atmosphere, and tear down their illusions of being invested in the system and in control of their own destiny - where every bankrupted small businessman would still have a fanatical belief in the free market and the cops and the courts. Expose these guys to the previously fringe idea that the state is in the hands of aliens who want them gone, and "these people want you broke, dead, your kids raped and brainwashed, and they think it's funny".


I think they are trying to push for an 'event'.  2016 scared the ever-living fuck out of the uniparty establishment.  Remember...

1. No matter what anyone says about 'proof' of election fraud, the statistical analysis is showing massive circumstantial evidence. 

2. No one on Biden's side has questioned the validity of Trump's vote count.

The backlash against Obamacare/Bailouts with the Tea Party and others surprised them.  Suppose they 'did' rig this election.  They now have everything they want legally, but they know the people are actually opposed to it.

Add in the fact that DJT (The super-waaaciissst) managed to get more minority support than any other Republican.  If they can force something, while they have all the reins of power they think they can prevent a 2022 backlash.

Think of all the double-standards from the DOJ/Court system and the media.  All the two-tier stuff is out in the open now.  Just because a portion of the population believes that is ok because it suits their agenda, don't believe what the  media says.  There is a significant resistance to the whole establishment 'do what I say, not what I do' narrative.

Talk to somebody in a militia, if you know anyone.  They will tell you that over the last ten years, the number of people talking on a personal level about armed opposition to the government has increased dramatically.  There is also a significant rise in the distrust of law enforcement.  For the last 4 years I have had friends from all over the political spectrum saying 'Man, you were right about the FBI'.  That may anecdotal, but I will trust it because a number of those friends weren't Trump supporters and I have been saying it for 30+ years.  When people I know change their outlook after 30 years, I am going to pay attention to why.

They also need to go now (while they have complete control) because of the firepower situation.  Note that in the article that jhkim linked a while back, the FBI classifies anti-government groups, incels, and 'religious groups' as all being 'right-wing'.  Then uses that as an excuse to claim that the 'right-wing' is the "Big Threat".  They are doing that to prepare the public for them using the military for intervention.  They have no choice, because even Federal law enforcement is extremely outgunned and they know it.

Note: Its not the conservatives/Republicans they have to worry about...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 11, 2021, 01:52:50 PM

I don't get how you read that from what I wrote. Terrorism is not OK in any case - and I am saying that violent BLM activities are wrong. Peaceful Trump demonstrations are good, and peaceful BLM demonstrations are good. If you think that there was a single BLM event that was worse than the Capitol storming, then specify it, and we can compare.

Go ahead and look up the USC legal definition of 'terrorism' then get back to me.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 11, 2021, 02:46:56 PM
The protestors at the Capital building are a good example--more will come.

And how many cops will they murder next time?

At the moment the Cops lead Cops: 1, White protesters: 0

How knows what will happen next time?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 11, 2021, 02:47:13 PM
Remember...

1. No matter what anyone says about 'proof' of election fraud, the statistical analysis is showing massive circumstantial evidence. 

2. No one on Biden's side has questioned the validity of Trump's vote count.

The backlash against Obamacare/Bailouts with the Tea Party and others surprised them.  Suppose they 'did' rig this election.  They now have everything they want legally, but they know the people are actually opposed to it.

What statistical analysis are you referring to? In the other thread, I tried to read and discuss a bunch of the statistical claims, but most failed to show their sources or explain their analysis. The statistical claims that I'm most familiar with from the previous thread are three of the court case testimonies:

1) Navid Keshavarz-Nia (ref) (https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mied.350905/gov.uscourts.mied.350905.1.19.pdf)
2) Russell James Ramsland (ref) (https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.gand.283580/gov.uscourts.gand.283580.7.1_2.pdf)
3) Charles J. Cicchetti (ref) (https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/22/22O155/163048/20201208132827887_TX-v-State-ExpedMot%202020-12-07%20FINAL.pdf) (see page 20)

The first two don't explain themselves well and have blatant errors. Keshavarz-Nia cites data from the non-existent Edison County, MI. Ramsland cites a list of Precinct Townships in Michigan that do not exist - Benville, Monticello, etc. One can dig further into problems with these, but I think the non-existent places already tosses out their reliability. The links above show the actual testimony, and you can easily confirm for yourself that the places do not exist as stated.

Cicchetti does a better job of explaining how he gets his data, and the tests that he is doing on them. But the assumptions behind the analysis are openly flawed. He assumes that there is no change between the 2016 vote for Clinton and the 2020 vote for Biden, and then analyzes to find that they're different. That shows nothing. In his second analysis, he compares early to late results assuming that they will be identical, but there is no reason for that assumption.

It's been demonstrated by lots of polls that Democrats have been more concerned over covid-19 than Republicans, and more likely to vote by mail. So it should be expected that vote-by-mail will favor Democrats more than Republicans compared to vote-in-person.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 11, 2021, 02:48:32 PM
And you've betrayed all of that to follow a pack of lying liars that endorse violence against Americans and attacks against America. Are you really so stupid? Oh well, at least you're all talk now, right?

You can not be a traitor for fighting American enemies both foreign and domestic.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 11, 2021, 02:52:26 PM
I don't get how you read that from what I wrote. Terrorism is not OK in any case - and I am saying that violent BLM activities are wrong. Peaceful Trump demonstrations are good, and peaceful BLM demonstrations are good. If you think that there was a single BLM event that was worse than the Capitol storming, then specify it, and we can compare.

Which bit was the Terroism bit?

Was it when the Protestors were shot?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 11, 2021, 03:08:29 PM
I don't get how you read that from what I wrote. Terrorism is not OK in any case - and I am saying that violent BLM activities are wrong. Peaceful Trump demonstrations are good, and peaceful BLM demonstrations are good. If you think that there was a single BLM event that was worse than the Capitol storming, then specify it, and we can compare.

Which bit was the Terroism bit?

Was it when the Protestors were shot?

I think you're mixing up quotes here. moonsweeper was the one who brought up terrorism. I didn't make any claim about terrorism except to say that it is bad -- because moonsweeper accused me of saying that terrorism is OK.

I haven't made any claim about someone being a terrorist, and I feel like moonsweeper's bringing it up was a distraction - that apparently worked.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: tenbones on January 11, 2021, 03:43:22 PM
1) Guam, Puerto Rico statehood. D.C. will not happen. But Guam and Puerto Rico? Definitely possible. All the RINO's have more incentive to go Democrat on everything because the Republican's have cut their own throat. If successful, this will lock up the Senate for generations.

I wonder what would actually happen if Puerto Rico became a state. I know that people often think that we'd all vote Democrat, and that may well be the case, since we've been conditioned for decades to be dependent on the US and the Democratic party is the cornerstone for that dependency, and we've also been conditioned to believe that the US, and the Republican party in particular, is full of racists who would never accept us. But there's also a strong Christian social conservative contingent in the island, and they've been blocking progressive policies for decades. We haven't had any LGBT courses taught in schools here because the social conservative types keep blocking any efforts to institute them into the curriculum (which I have mixed feelings about, since I'm pro-LGBT, but anti-woke nonsense that get taught in those courses). I don't like them very much, since I've never been conservative and haven't been Christian for most of my life, and the idea makes me uncomfortable, but I wonder if the island can be flipped away from the Democratic party by appealing to the Christian social conservative side.

This is a salient point. But given the sheer willingness for the Democrat party to do "whatever it takes" to secure support for their cause, I'm pretty confident they can buy off whomever it takes to secure Puerto Rico at the legislative bureaucratic level. Like they did here.

I'm perfectly willing to go with you in terms of the populist sentiment. But we both know the problem here isn't with the people... and that window may have closed on all of us that don't prescribe to the current Purity Test standards of the day.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 11, 2021, 04:04:47 PM
I don't get how you read that from what I wrote. Terrorism is not OK in any case - and I am saying that violent BLM activities are wrong. Peaceful Trump demonstrations are good, and peaceful BLM demonstrations are good. If you think that there was a single BLM event that was worse than the Capitol storming, then specify it, and we can compare.

Which bit was the Terroism bit?

Was it when the Protestors were shot?

I think you're mixing up quotes here. moonsweeper was the one who brought up terrorism. I didn't make any claim about terrorism except to say that it is bad -- because moonsweeper accused me of saying that terrorism is OK.

I haven't made any claim about someone being a terrorist, and I feel like moonsweeper's bringing it up was a distraction - that apparently worked.

So you disavow the statements made by Biden?

Thats a good start.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 11, 2021, 04:08:51 PM

This is a salient point. But given the sheer willingness for the Democrat party to do "whatever it takes" to secure support for their cause, I'm pretty confident they can buy off whomever it takes to secure Puerto Rico at the legislative bureaucratic level. Like they did here.

I'm perfectly willing to go with you in terms of the populist sentiment. But we both know the problem here isn't with the people... and that window may have closed on all of us that don't prescribe to the current Purity Test standards of the day.
Oh great, guess we can look forward to a resurgence of the FALN. Just what we need, especially since that jug-eared dolt Obama let their head honcho out before he left office.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 11, 2021, 04:22:56 PM
The protestors at the Capital building are a good example--more will come.

And how many cops will they murder next time?

At the moment the Cops lead Cops: 1, White protesters: 0

How knows what will happen next time?

Greetings!

Yeah, Shasarak, it unfortunately isn't looking good. As Spinachcat explained, we seem to be heading for either Civil War or National Collapse. The more censorship, tyranny, and oppression pushed by Big Tech, the MSM, and the Democrats just is not going to end well. Thousands of Conservatives, besides President Trump, have been censored now from the internet. The MSM is in such a hysterical propaganda mode, it is unbelievable how virtually every report or opinion they write, every interview, whatever, is just more dressed up propaganda designed to support the Marxist Democrat narrative. Then you have the fucking Democrats making "Lists", making demands for resignations of opposition Republican leaders, and essentially declaring Trump supporters to be "Domestic Terrorists". It is all absolutely insane and monstrously evil, but all of the cock-sucking Democrats and RINO cucks think all of these things are just great. It is mind-boggling.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 11, 2021, 04:23:11 PM
Greetings!

It would be very interesting if President Trump signs the Insurrection Act and Nancy Polosi and others are arrested for Sedition and Treason.

Twitter, Google, all of them could be seized and confiscated by the government. Imagine how all of the Marxists would be REEEing.

So many corrupt politicians and bureaucrats in Washington. They need to be cleaned out.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
That sounds just as horrible. Totalitarian measures are never a good idea.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 11, 2021, 04:31:04 PM
But what's important to remember is that the storming of the Capitol was the worse attack in US history...cuz it was the wrong people doing it.

And how dare they?
The vehemence of the reaction to the ruckus in the Capitol seems to be personal. Pelosi is furious because it's her house, and some dirty peasant put his feet up on her desk. Same with Schumer, McConnell, and so on.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 11, 2021, 04:32:50 PM
Greetings!

It would be very interesting if President Trump signs the Insurrection Act and Nancy Polosi and others are arrested for Sedition and Treason.

Twitter, Google, all of them could be seized and confiscated by the government. Imagine how all of the Marxists would be REEEing.

So many corrupt politicians and bureaucrats in Washington. They need to be cleaned out.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
That sounds just as horrible. Totalitarian measures are never a good idea.

Greetings!

America is heading down a terrible road. The Democrats are embracing tyranny, censorship, and oppression as we speak, and Biden hasn't even been inaugurated yet. I imagine that more tyranny and oppression will soon be coming down the pipe.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 11, 2021, 04:34:07 PM
It would be very interesting if President Trump signs the Insurrection Act and Nancy Polosi and others are arrested for Sedition and Treason.

Twitter, Google, all of them could be seized and confiscated by the government. Imagine how all of the Marxists would be REEEing.

So many corrupt politicians and bureaucrats in Washington. They need to be cleaned out.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I was watching Viva Frei last night and Robert Barnes explained that if Trump had signed the Insurrection Act then the Democrats would have immediately used it against him.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 11, 2021, 05:02:55 PM
Remember...

1. No matter what anyone says about 'proof' of election fraud, the statistical analysis is showing massive circumstantial evidence. 

2. No one on Biden's side has questioned the validity of Trump's vote count.

The backlash against Obamacare/Bailouts with the Tea Party and others surprised them.  Suppose they 'did' rig this election.  They now have everything they want legally, but they know the people are actually opposed to it.

What statistical analysis are you referring to? In the other thread, I tried to read and discuss a bunch of the statistical claims, but most failed to show their sources or explain their analysis. The statistical claims that I'm most familiar with from the previous thread are three of the court case testimonies:

1) Navid Keshavarz-Nia (ref) (https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mied.350905/gov.uscourts.mied.350905.1.19.pdf)
2) Russell James Ramsland (ref) (https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.gand.283580/gov.uscourts.gand.283580.7.1_2.pdf)
3) Charles J. Cicchetti (ref) (https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/22/22O155/163048/20201208132827887_TX-v-State-ExpedMot%202020-12-07%20FINAL.pdf) (see page 20)

The first two don't explain themselves well and have blatant errors. Keshavarz-Nia cites data from the non-existent Edison County, MI. Ramsland cites a list of Precinct Townships in Michigan that do not exist - Benville, Monticello, etc. One can dig further into problems with these, but I think the non-existent places already tosses out their reliability. The links above show the actual testimony, and you can easily confirm for yourself that the places do not exist as stated.

Cicchetti does a better job of explaining how he gets his data, and the tests that he is doing on them. But the assumptions behind the analysis are openly flawed. He assumes that there is no change between the 2016 vote for Clinton and the 2020 vote for Biden, and then analyzes to find that they're different. That shows nothing. In his second analysis, he compares early to late results assuming that they will be identical, but there is no reason for that assumption.

You have a doctorate.  Ignore the 'court' documents and do an analysis of the data comparing across all of the swing states.  Then examine the historical data along the same axes.  You will find some glaring discrepancies that only happened in this election and only happened in the swing states that had the 'delayed' count and then went for Biden.  Ignore the 'fraud' accusations and actually look at all of the data...

It's been demonstrated by lots of polls that Democrats have been more concerned over covid-19 than Republicans, and more likely to vote by mail. So it should be expected that vote-by-mail will favor Democrats more than Republicans compared to vote-in-person.

I never said that the mail-in vote wouldn't favor D over R...All I said was that a statistical analysis shows some very interesting data points, especially if you understand how voter fraud actually works.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 11, 2021, 05:16:03 PM
I don't get how you read that from what I wrote. Terrorism is not OK in any case - and I am saying that violent BLM activities are wrong. Peaceful Trump demonstrations are good, and peaceful BLM demonstrations are good. If you think that there was a single BLM event that was worse than the Capitol storming, then specify it, and we can compare.

Which bit was the Terroism bit?

Was it when the Protestors were shot?

I think you're mixing up quotes here. moonsweeper was the one who brought up terrorism. I didn't make any claim about terrorism except to say that it is bad -- because moonsweeper accused me of saying that terrorism is OK.

I haven't made any claim about someone being a terrorist, and I feel like moonsweeper's bringing it up was a distraction - that apparently worked.

Nope, no distraction...here is the quote I referenced (Bolding is mine for emphasis)

BLM riots = doubleplusgood
Trump "riot" = doubleplusbad

I'd say: as far as actions done (leaving aside the cause), the various BLM protests and riots were mixed with some good and some bad (violent/non-violent). Trump protests have also been mixed and mostly good, but specifically storming the Capitol was worse than any single BLM event.

The Kavanaugh protests were purely non-violent. That doesn't mean that the protesters were right - just that how they conducted their protest was good.

So go ahead then...enlighten us as to what makes 'Terrorism A' not as bad as 'Terrorism B.'
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 11, 2021, 05:34:33 PM
And you've betrayed all of that to follow a pack of lying liars that endorse violence against Americans and attacks against America. Are you really so stupid? Oh well, at least you're all talk now, right?

You can not be a traitor for fighting American enemies both foreign and domestic.
The soldier doesn't designate enemies; that's for the government the soldier is serving to do. And that is why SHARK is a traitor.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 11, 2021, 05:50:08 PM
And you've betrayed all of that to follow a pack of lying liars that endorse violence against Americans and attacks against America. Are you really so stupid? Oh well, at least you're all talk now, right?

You can not be a traitor for fighting American enemies both foreign and domestic.
The soldier doesn't designate enemies; that's for the government the soldier is serving to do. And that is why SHARK is a traitor.

No, being a traitor is when someone like Nancy Pelosi tries to take control of the US Nuclear weapons.

George Washington never sat around waiting to find out what the government wanted him to do.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Elfdart on January 11, 2021, 05:50:15 PM
Greetings!

America is heading down a terrible road. The Democrats are embracing tyranny, censorship, and oppression as we speak, and Biden hasn't even been inaugurated yet. I imagine that more tyranny and oppression will soon be coming down the pipe.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Who just whipped up a mob of Nazis and sicced them on Capitol Hill, killing five (including a policeman)? Here's a hint: not the Democrats.

You are one dumb twat.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 11, 2021, 05:54:30 PM
What statistical analysis are you referring to? In the other thread, I tried to read and discuss a bunch of the statistical claims, but most failed to show their sources or explain their analysis. The statistical claims that I'm most familiar with from the previous thread are three of the court case testimonies:
...(specific fraud claims from court cases)...

You have a doctorate.  Ignore the 'court' documents and do an analysis of the data comparing across all of the swing states.  Then examine the historical data along the same axes.  You will find some glaring discrepancies that only happened in this election and only happened in the swing states that had the 'delayed' count and then went for Biden.  Ignore the 'fraud' accusations and actually look at all of the data...

Those are actual court documents from lawsuits by the President. I think they are reasonable sources to check. He's the President of the United States, and has hired people to look into this. I shouldn't have to do all my work from scratch. And I already spent a while in the other thread checking on a number of other claims, and all of the ones I looked into didn't show evidence of fraud.

If you believe that there is a particular discrepancy, then specify it and we can discuss it.


It's been demonstrated by lots of polls that Democrats have been more concerned over covid-19 than Republicans, and more likely to vote by mail. So it should be expected that vote-by-mail will favor Democrats more than Republicans compared to vote-in-person.

I never said that the mail-in vote wouldn't favor D over R...All I said was that a statistical analysis shows some very interesting data points, especially if you understand how voter fraud actually works.

If you have interesting data points, then show them. Why would you keep them a secret?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: tenbones on January 11, 2021, 05:58:26 PM
Looks like they just banned Ron Paul from Facebook.

FBI sent out a notice that their are armed protests being planned in all 50-states. I kinda call bullshit on this, it sounds like an invitation to a false-flag, but who knows.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 11, 2021, 06:11:14 PM
And you've betrayed all of that to follow a pack of lying liars that endorse violence against Americans and attacks against America. Are you really so stupid? Oh well, at least you're all talk now, right?

You can not be a traitor for fighting American enemies both foreign and domestic.
The soldier doesn't designate enemies; that's for the government the soldier is serving to do. And that is why SHARK is a traitor.

You're talking about a country that was founded by a bunch of people telling the government to piss off and then shooting the government soldiers sent to stop them.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 11, 2021, 06:35:07 PM
Greetings!

America is heading down a terrible road. The Democrats are embracing tyranny, censorship, and oppression as we speak, and Biden hasn't even been inaugurated yet. I imagine that more tyranny and oppression will soon be coming down the pipe.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Who just whipped up a mob of Nazis and sicced them on Capitol Hill, killing five (including a policeman)? Here's a hint: not the Democrats.

You are one dumb twat.

Meanwhile anti Nazi Democrat Andrew "Granny Killer" Cuomo is trying to legalize putting Jews into camps.

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2021/a416
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Elfdart on January 11, 2021, 06:38:09 PM
Looks like they just banned Ron Paul from Facebook.

FBI sent out a notice that their are armed protests being planned in all 50-states. I kinda call bullshit on this, it sounds like an invitation to a false-flag, but who knows.

Have you ever heard the expression "shipping coal to Newscastle"? Why would the FBI, Antifa, BLM, or anyone else bother to fabricate fascists when there are so many out there already?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 11, 2021, 06:43:31 PM
Meanwhile anti Nazi Democrat Andrew "Granny Killer" Cuomo is trying to legalize putting Jews into camps.

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2021/a416

This is a draft bill first introduced in 2015 by State Assembly member Nick Perry, who keeps reintroducing it each year. It has always failed to pass, and is not sponsored by Cuomo or any member of the State Senate. If you follow Shasarak's link, you can go see the 2015 version and how it keeps being reintroduced.

EDITED TO ADD: Also, there is nothing about Jews or camps in it.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Elfdart on January 11, 2021, 06:43:36 PM
Meanwhile anti Nazi Democrat Andrew "Granny Killer" Cuomo is trying to legalize putting Jews into camps.

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2021/a416

Would you so kind as to quote the part of the bill about Jews being put into camps?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 11, 2021, 07:05:18 PM
Meanwhile anti Nazi Democrat Andrew "Granny Killer" Cuomo is trying to legalize putting Jews into camps.

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2021/a416

This is a draft bill first introduced in 2015 by State Assembly member Nick Perry, who keeps reintroducing it each year. It has always failed to pass, and is not sponsored by Cuomo or any member of the State Senate. If you follow Shasarak's link, you can go see the 2015 version and how it keeps being reintroduced.

EDITED TO ADD: Also, there is nothing about Jews or camps in it.

Quote
   2.  UPON  DETERMINING BY CLEAR AND CONVINCING EVIDENCE THAT THE HEALTH
 OF OTHERS IS OR MAY BE ENDANGERED BY A  CASE,  CONTACT  OR  CARRIER,  OR
 SUSPECTED  CASE, CONTACT OR CARRIER OF A CONTAGIOUS DISEASE THAT, IN THE
 OPINION OF THE GOVERNOR, AFTER CONSULTATION WITH THE  COMMISSIONER,  MAY
 POSE  AN  IMMINENT AND SIGNIFICANT THREAT TO THE PUBLIC HEALTH RESULTING
 IN SEVERE MORBIDITY OR HIGH MORTALITY, THE GOVERNOR OR HIS OR HER  DELE-
 GEE,  INCLUDING,  BUT  NOT  LIMITED  TO THE COMMISSIONER OR THE HEADS OF
 LOCAL HEALTH DEPARTMENTS, MAY ORDER THE REMOVAL AND/OR DETENTION OF SUCH
 A PERSON OR OF A GROUP OF SUCH PERSONS BY ISSUING A SINGLE ORDER,  IDEN-
 TIFYING  SUCH  PERSONS  EITHER  BY  NAME  OR  BY  A  REASONABLY SPECIFIC
 DESCRIPTION OF THE INDIVIDUALS OR GROUP BEING DETAINED. SUCH  PERSON  OR
 GROUP OF PERSONS SHALL BE DETAINED IN A MEDICAL FACILITY OR OTHER APPRO-
 PRIATE  FACILITY  OR  PREMISES  DESIGNATED BY THE GOVERNOR OR HIS OR HER
 DELEGEE AND COMPLYING WITH SUBDIVISION FIVE OF THIS SECTION.

You are right jhkim, it is not a camp, it is a medical facility, or other appropriate facility or premises designated by the Governor.

I am sure that the Jews will feel so much better knowing that they are in an appropriate premises and not a camp.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 11, 2021, 07:09:36 PM
Meanwhile anti Nazi Democrat Andrew "Granny Killer" Cuomo is trying to legalize putting Jews into camps.

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2021/a416

Would you so kind as to quote the part of the bill about Jews being put into camps?

Was my link broken?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 11, 2021, 07:12:57 PM
Meanwhile anti Nazi Democrat Andrew "Granny Killer" Cuomo is trying to legalize putting Jews into camps.

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2021/a416

This is a draft bill first introduced in 2015 by State Assembly member Nick Perry, who keeps reintroducing it each year. It has always failed to pass, and is not sponsored by Cuomo or any member of the State Senate. If you follow Shasarak's link, you can go see the 2015 version and how it keeps being reintroduced.

EDITED TO ADD: Also, there is nothing about Jews or camps in it.

You are right jhkim, it is not a camp, it is a medical facility, or other appropriate facility or premises designated by the Governor.

Do you also agree that I am right that it was from 2015, rejected four times, and is not sponsored by Cuomo or anyone in the State Senate?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 11, 2021, 07:17:12 PM
Do you also agree that I am right that it was from 2015, rejected four times, and is not sponsored by Cuomo or anyone in the State Senate?

You mean Assembly Bill A4162021-2022 Legislative Session dated January 6, 2021?

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 11, 2021, 07:23:39 PM
Do you also agree that I am right that it was from 2015, rejected four times, and is not sponsored by Cuomo or anyone in the State Senate?

You mean Assembly Bill A4162021-2022 Legislative Session dated January 6, 2021?

Yes. If you look down a little in the text for Bill A416 you will see:

Quote
Versions Introduced in Other Legislative Sessions:2015-2016: A6891
2017-2018: A680
2019-2020: A99
Source: https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2021/a416

Each of those links to the previous versions. The bill is renumbered each time that it is re-introduced, but if you look at the previous versions, you will see the exact same language. The following is my cut-and-paste from the 2015 version of the bill. 

Quote
2.  UPON  DETERMINING BY CLEAR AND CONVINCING EVIDENCE THAT THE HEALTH
OF OTHERS IS OR MAY BE ENDANGERED BY A  CASE,  CONTACT  OR  CARRIER,  OR
SUSPECTED  CASE, CONTACT OR CARRIER OF A CONTAGIOUS DISEASE THAT, IN THE
OPINION OF THE GOVERNOR, AFTER CONSULTATION WITH THE  COMMISSIONER,  MAY
POSE  AN  IMMINENT AND SIGNIFICANT THREAT TO THE PUBLIC HEALTH RESULTING
IN SEVERE MORBIDITY OR HIGH MORTALITY, THE GOVERNOR OR HIS OR HER  DELE-
GEE,  INCLUDING,  BUT  NOT  LIMITED  TO THE COMMISSIONER OR THE HEADS OF
LOCAL HEALTH DEPARTMENTS, MAY ORDER THE REMOVAL AND/OR DETENTION OF SUCH
A PERSON OR OF A GROUP OF SUCH PERSONS BY ISSUING A SINGLE ORDER,  IDEN-
TIFYING  SUCH  PERSONS  EITHER  BY  NAME  OR  BY  A  REASONABLY SPECIFIC
DESCRIPTION OF THE INDIVIDUALS OR GROUP BEING DETAINED. SUCH  PERSON  OR
GROUP OF PERSONS SHALL BE DETAINED IN A MEDICAL FACILITY OR OTHER APPRO-
PRIATE  FACILITY  OR  PREMISES  DESIGNATED BY THE GOVERNOR OR HIS OR HER
DELEGEE AND COMPLYING WITH SUBDIVISION FIVE OF THIS SECTION.
Source: https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2015/A6891

The Assembly member Nick Perry keeps re-introducing this bill, but it has failed to pass three times previously.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 11, 2021, 07:31:47 PM
The Assembly member Nick Perry keeps re-introducing this bill, but it has failed to pass three times previously.

So you are saying that they have been able to successfully fight the introduction of this kind of "camp" until now?

I hope there is no chance of some kind of global pandemic that gives an excuse for it to be passed this year.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 11, 2021, 07:34:03 PM
I don't get how you read that from what I wrote. Terrorism is not OK in any case - and I am saying that violent BLM activities are wrong. Peaceful Trump demonstrations are good, and peaceful BLM demonstrations are good. If you think that there was a single BLM event that was worse than the Capitol storming, then specify it, and we can compare.

Which bit was the Terroism bit?

Was it when the Protestors were shot?

I think you're mixing up quotes here. moonsweeper was the one who brought up terrorism. I didn't make any claim about terrorism except to say that it is bad -- because moonsweeper accused me of saying that terrorism is OK.

I haven't made any claim about someone being a terrorist, and I feel like moonsweeper's bringing it up was a distraction - that apparently worked.

Did you disavow the statements made by Biden regarding terrorists or did you support them?



Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 11, 2021, 08:00:50 PM
Go ahead and look up the USC legal definition of 'terrorism' then get back to me.

Quote from: 18 U.S. Code § 2331 - Definitions
(5) the term “domestic terrorism” means activities that—
(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
(B) appear to be intended—
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States;

With regard to the Kavanaugh protests,
The crimes they were arrested and charged with were "crowding, obstruction, or incommoding" along with "unlawful conduct" and "disorderly conduct".
These don't sound like crimes "dangerous to human life". With respect to the infrequent violence at BLM protests, that does not seem systematic enough to fit (B) in the definition; otherwise any isolated criminal act dangerous to human life would be terrorism. The assassination of police officers would probably fit B(iii) but those appear to have been carried out by a few right-wingers. B(ii) and B(iii) seem to have been a major objective for many of the rioters on January 6th; disrupting the electoral vote count at least, and for some, capturing Pence, Pelosi or others to hold hostage or execute.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: deadDMwalking on January 11, 2021, 08:06:17 PM

Did you disavow the statements made by Biden regarding terrorists or did you support them?

You mean this one?

Quote from: Biden
No major party, no major party nominee in the history of this nation has ever known less or has been less prepared to deal with national security.  We cannot elect a man who exploits our fears of ISIS and other terrorists, who has no plan whatsoever to make us safer.

Or do you have another quote in mind? 

Personally, I think armed protesters storming the US Capitol combined with statements like the ones on this site about this being 'just the beginning' qualify as an attempt to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion, so sure, I'm willing to agree that some of the protestors last week are terrorists.  Not CONVICTED terrorists, which I know matters to everyone here up until that person in Muslim or black. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 11, 2021, 08:08:38 PM
I think you're mixing up quotes here. moonsweeper was the one who brought up terrorism. I didn't make any claim about terrorism except to say that it is bad -- because moonsweeper accused me of saying that terrorism is OK.

I haven't made any claim about someone being a terrorist, and I feel like moonsweeper's bringing it up was a distraction - that apparently worked.

Did you disavow the statements made by Biden regarding terrorists or did you support them?

I do not support them. In general, I find that terrorist is used as a generic buzzword for "bad person" far too much by both sides of the political spectrum. I think that particularly in casual usage, it is an over-hyped distinction. Under U.S. law, letting animals out of cages can be terrorism - while murdering dozens isn't necessarily terrorism. Particularly since it is so charged, I would prefer to discuss the morality of actions without using the label "terrorist" at all - instead judging it from other principles.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 11, 2021, 08:12:31 PM
No, being a traitor is when someone like Nancy Pelosi tries to take control of the US Nuclear weapons.

George Washington never sat around waiting to find out what the government wanted him to do.

By the Constitution,
Quote from: US Constitution
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Since George Washington was President of the United States, he was Commander in Chief; who we would he wait around to hear from? If no war were declared, he would probably have waited for Congress to declare war before conducting a war, since that was in the Constitution and he was fairly careful to set no unfortunate precedents, so the answer is, to some extent, yes, he would, and likely similarly for other situations where the executive branch should not act without legislation from the legislative branch. Earlier, he was Commander in Chief of the Continental Army. The President as Commander in Chief recognizes that wars cannot be fought under the command of a divided committee, while limiting the power of the executive in many ways (impeachment and later the 25th amendment being among them).

I'd say invading the Capitol Building, the seat of the Article I branch of the federal government, and injuring and even killing members of its police force, looks like levying war against the United States and thus treason. Nancy Pelosi asking the Joint Chiefs of Staff about something she probably knew the answer to looks like drumming up support for the stronger constitutional options, by undercutting the argument that the military would resist Trump's orders (almost certainly true for clearly illegal orders, almost certainly false for clearly legal orders).
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 11, 2021, 08:15:39 PM
Looks like they just banned Ron Paul from Facebook.
Looks like it's temporary, and it's not clear why. It's for unspecified violations of their community standards.

That could bite them in the ass. He's never had much political power, but he's been surprisingly influential and is widely respected.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 11, 2021, 08:17:34 PM
And you've betrayed all of that to follow a pack of lying liars that endorse violence against Americans and attacks against America. Are you really so stupid? Oh well, at least you're all talk now, right?

You can not be a traitor for fighting American enemies both foreign and domestic.
The soldier doesn't designate enemies; that's for the government the soldier is serving to do. And that is why SHARK is a traitor.

Greetings!

I am not a traitor to anything. You are delusional.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 11, 2021, 08:17:52 PM
1) Guam, Puerto Rico statehood. D.C. will not happen. But Guam and Puerto Rico? Definitely possible. All the RINO's have more incentive to go Democrat on everything because the Republican's have cut their own throat. If successful, this will lock up the Senate for generations.
Guam will never happen. 170,000 people vs. about 500,000 for the smallest House district. They'd need to triple the number of reps. Puerto Rico is more than large enough, but can the statehood movement overcome the independence movement, and is the US willing to accept a bankrupt state?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 11, 2021, 08:21:16 PM
In general, I find that terrorist is used as a generic buzzword for "bad person" far too much by both sides of the political spectrum. I think that particularly in casual usage, it is an over-hyped distinction. Under U.S. law, letting animals out of cages can be terrorism - while murdering dozens isn't necessarily terrorism. Particularly since it is so charged, I would prefer to discuss the morality of actions without using the label "terrorist" at all - instead judging it from other principles.
Agreed. Terrorism, treason, and hate crimes are all being used too casually.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 11, 2021, 08:37:32 PM
An interview with Peter Meijer (https://reason.com/2021/01/08/amash-successor-peter-meijer-trumps-deceptions-are-rankly-unfit/), who replaced Justin Amash in Congress:
Quote
And then one of the saddest things is I had colleagues who, when it came time to recognize reality and vote to certify Arizona and Pennsylvania in the Electoral College, they knew in their heart of hearts that they should've voted to certify, but some had legitimate concerns about the safety of their families. They felt that that vote would put their families in danger.

The delay of the electoral vote count was probably aimed at increasing or at least getting more time for the same intimidation of state legislators. Anybody but Trump probably would have recognized that it was going to blow up in his face, but per Ben Sasse, "As this was unfolding on television, Donald Trump was walking around the White House confused about why other people on his team weren’t as excited as he was.... He was delighted."
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 11, 2021, 08:47:43 PM
Go ahead and look up the USC legal definition of 'terrorism' then get back to me.

Quote from: 18 U.S. Code § 2331 - Definitions
(5) the term “domestic terrorism” means activities that—
(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
(B) appear to be intended—
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States;

With regard to the Kavanaugh protests,
The crimes they were arrested and charged with were "crowding, obstruction, or incommoding" along with "unlawful conduct" and "disorderly conduct".
These don't sound like crimes "dangerous to human life". With respect to the infrequent violence at BLM protests, that does not seem systematic enough to fit (B) in the definition; otherwise any isolated criminal act dangerous to human life would be terrorism. The assassination of police officers would probably fit B(iii) but those appear to have been carried out by a few right-wingers. B(ii) and B(iii) seem to have been a major objective for many of the rioters on January 6th; disrupting the electoral vote count at least, and for some, capturing Pence, Pelosi or others to hold hostage or execute.

That might matter if I had said anything about the Kavanaugh hearings...
(Here's a little secret: I didn't)

The discussion I was having was about the destruction/attacks committed during BLM/Antifa riots which fall under (i), (ii) and maybe (iii) and therefore mark the perpetrators as terrorists by legal definition.  Because people ought to know what words mean when they use them...especially people with doctorates.

You also fail on the second part, since I never defended the people who broke into the Capitol...

*pats rawma on the cheek*

It'll be ok.  You can try again next time.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 11, 2021, 08:49:56 PM

Did you disavow the statements made by Biden regarding terrorists or did you support them?

You mean this one?

Quote from: Biden
No major party, no major party nominee in the history of this nation has ever known less or has been less prepared to deal with national security.  We cannot elect a man who exploits our fears of ISIS and other terrorists, who has no plan whatsoever to make us safer.

Or do you have another quote in mind? 

Personally, I think armed protesters storming the US Capitol combined with statements like the ones on this site about this being 'just the beginning' qualify as an attempt to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion, so sure, I'm willing to agree that some of the protestors last week are terrorists.  Not CONVICTED terrorists, which I know matters to everyone here up until that person in Muslim or black.

"“These are a bunch of thugs, they’re terrorists, domestic terrorists and that will be a judgment for the justice department as to what the charges should be, but the fact is they should be prosecuted,” Biden said."

https://www.jpost.com/american-politics/biden-capitol-rioters-are-thugs-antisemites-who-should-be-prosecuted-654800 (https://www.jpost.com/american-politics/biden-capitol-rioters-are-thugs-antisemites-who-should-be-prosecuted-654800)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Cloyer Bulse on January 11, 2021, 08:57:20 PM
For the 30 states with republican legislators, they need to get those Dominion (it could not be more obvious if they named those machines "fuck you peasants!") cheating machines out of their states, otherwise they are going to be "voted" out of office very quickly, and then they need to impeach their democratic governors, all of whom were "elected" by election fraud.

If they do this, they could easily retake both the house and the senate, reinstate the republic and impeach Beijing Biden and Blowjob Harris, both of whom have the popularity of a raging gonorrhea infection.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 11, 2021, 08:58:15 PM
I think you're mixing up quotes here. moonsweeper was the one who brought up terrorism. I didn't make any claim about terrorism except to say that it is bad -- because moonsweeper accused me of saying that terrorism is OK.

I haven't made any claim about someone being a terrorist, and I feel like moonsweeper's bringing it up was a distraction - that apparently worked.

Did you disavow the statements made by Biden regarding terrorists or did you support them?

I do not support them. In general, I find that terrorist is used as a generic buzzword for "bad person" far too much by both sides of the political spectrum. I think that particularly in casual usage, it is an over-hyped distinction. Under U.S. law, letting animals out of cages can be terrorism - while murdering dozens isn't necessarily terrorism. Particularly since it is so charged, I would prefer to discuss the morality of actions without using the label "terrorist" at all - instead judging it from other principles.

I would agree, its just like calling everyone Nazi and it is a shame to hear it from the most popular man in American electoral history.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 11, 2021, 09:02:29 PM
And you've betrayed all of that to follow a pack of lying liars that endorse violence against Americans and attacks against America. Are you really so stupid? Oh well, at least you're all talk now, right?

You can not be a traitor for fighting American enemies both foreign and domestic.
The soldier doesn't designate enemies; that's for the government the soldier is serving to do. And that is why SHARK is a traitor.

Greetings!

I am not a traitor to anything. You are delusional.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Your denial gets weaker every time. Look in a mirror next time you want to see the face of the "enemy" because that's where you'll see a piece of shit advocating for violence against Americans and American institutions.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 11, 2021, 09:03:24 PM
Personally, I think armed protesters storming the US Capitol combined with statements like the ones on this site about this being 'just the beginning' qualify as an attempt to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion, so sure, I'm willing to agree that some of the protestors last week are terrorists.  Not CONVICTED terrorists, which I know matters to everyone here up until that person in Muslim or black.

I challenge you to find a quote from every poster to back that up. You can skip the banned ones.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 11, 2021, 09:26:11 PM
No, being a traitor is when someone like Nancy Pelosi tries to take control of the US Nuclear weapons.

George Washington never sat around waiting to find out what the government wanted him to do.

By the Constitution,
Quote from: US Constitution
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Since George Washington was President of the United States, he was Commander in Chief; who we would he wait around to hear from? If no war were declared, he would probably have waited for Congress to declare war before conducting a war, since that was in the Constitution and he was fairly careful to set no unfortunate precedents, so the answer is, to some extent, yes, he would, and likely similarly for other situations where the executive branch should not act without legislation from the legislative branch. Earlier, he was Commander in Chief of the Continental Army. The President as Commander in Chief recognizes that wars cannot be fought under the command of a divided committee, while limiting the power of the executive in many ways (impeachment and later the 25th amendment being among them).

George Washington was born commander in chief which caused a lot of initial trouble on the play ground.

Quote
I'd say invading the Capitol Building, the seat of the Article I branch of the federal government, and injuring and even killing members of its police force, looks like levying war against the United States and thus treason. Nancy Pelosi asking the Joint Chiefs of Staff about something she probably knew the answer to looks like drumming up support for the stronger constitutional options, by undercutting the argument that the military would resist Trump's orders (almost certainly true for clearly illegal orders, almost certainly false for clearly legal orders).

It would have been really bad if any members of the police force had been killed by protestors but luckily the only ones hurt were the white protestors who were really asking for it by protesting against systemic corruption.

Nancy Pelosi asking to commit treason is really just another Tuesday.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 11, 2021, 09:31:33 PM
Just so I can keep it straight we have the people that believe terrorists attacked the Capitol:

deadDMwalking,
rawma,
Elfdart

anyone else I missed?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: KingCheops on January 11, 2021, 09:42:44 PM
Apparently even mini-dictators Macron and Merkel think the social media companies have gone too far.  I guess they realize the High Priests of the Cathedral will come for them eventually so they want to get out ahead of it.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 11, 2021, 09:50:27 PM
Just so I can keep it straight we have the people that believe terrorists attacked the Capitol:

deadDMwalking,
rawma,
Elfdart

anyone else I missed?

I have to wait on jhkim to determine if the antifa/BLM rioters fit the definition of terrorism...I need to know if we are using the legal definition or just the rhetorical mudslinging one...

unless of course he weasels by using his typical "a 'protected-class' doesn't have to be held to the same standards defense..."

But I am perfectly willing to go down the legal road of all violence for political ends is terrorism and should be investigated as such...but damn the police and FBI will have to open a few new offices in Portland and Seattle.   :D

Of course, if certain people don't believe in equal treatment under the law, then I consider their opinion on the matter irrelevant due to lack of ethical character.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: tenbones on January 11, 2021, 09:53:13 PM
1) Guam, Puerto Rico statehood. D.C. will not happen. But Guam and Puerto Rico? Definitely possible. All the RINO's have more incentive to go Democrat on everything because the Republican's have cut their own throat. If successful, this will lock up the Senate for generations.
Guam will never happen. 170,000 people vs. about 500,000 for the smallest House district. They'd need to triple the number of reps. Puerto Rico is more than large enough, but can the statehood movement overcome the independence movement, and is the US willing to accept a bankrupt state?

Why Pat, you make it sound like "rules" matter these days. LOL

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: tenbones on January 11, 2021, 09:54:40 PM
Apparently even mini-dictators Macron and Merkel think the social media companies have gone too far.  I guess they realize the High Priests of the Cathedral will come for them eventually so they want to get out ahead of it.

Bingo is your name-o. Much like the ACLU is suddenly fretting about Trump's civil liberties being trodden upon. It's almost as if they realize the current stock value of "Civil Liberties" is dropping through the floor in the current market...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 11, 2021, 10:06:34 PM
Just so I can keep it straight we have the people that believe terrorists attacked the Capitol:

deadDMwalking,
rawma,
Elfdart

anyone else I missed?

I have to wait on jhkim to determine if the antifa/BLM rioters fit the definition of terrorism...I need to know if we are using the legal definition or just the rhetorical mudslinging one...

unless of course he weasels by using his typical "a 'protected-class' doesn't have to be held to the same standards defense..."

But I am perfectly willing to go down the legal road of all violence for political ends is terrorism and should be investigated as such...but damn the police and FBI will have to open a few new offices in Portland and Seattle.   :D

Of course, if certain people don't believe in equal treatment under the law, then I consider their opinion on the matter irrelevant due to lack of ethical character.

Jhkim does not agree.


I think you're mixing up quotes here. moonsweeper was the one who brought up terrorism. I didn't make any claim about terrorism except to say that it is bad -- because moonsweeper accused me of saying that terrorism is OK.

I haven't made any claim about someone being a terrorist, and I feel like moonsweeper's bringing it up was a distraction - that apparently worked.

Did you disavow the statements made by Biden regarding terrorists or did you support them?

I do not support them. In general, I find that terrorist is used as a generic buzzword for "bad person" far too much by both sides of the political spectrum. I think that particularly in casual usage, it is an over-hyped distinction. Under U.S. law, letting animals out of cages can be terrorism - while murdering dozens isn't necessarily terrorism. Particularly since it is so charged, I would prefer to discuss the morality of actions without using the label "terrorist" at all - instead judging it from other principles.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 11, 2021, 10:33:49 PM
Quote from: 18 U.S. Code § 2331 - Definitions
(5) the term “domestic terrorism” means activities that—
(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
(B) appear to be intended—
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States;
The discussion I was having was about the destruction/attacks committed during BLM/Antifa riots which fall under (i), (ii) and maybe (iii) and therefore mark the perpetrators as terrorists by legal definition.

Individual isolated acts are not going to fall under the definition of terrorism, unless every criminal act dangerous to human life within the United States is domestic terrorism, which would make the definition pointless as a label (which jhkim seems to believe). At BLM protests, looting was more likely opportunistic than anything under B; vandalism on an irregular scale similarly does not appear to be aimed at anything under B. Most of the protesting did not involve criminal acts. The more extreme acts in the vicinity of BLM protests appear to have been mostly right-wingers, whether as a false flag or for their own purposes.

Quote
You also fail on the second part, since I never defended the people who broke into the Capitol...

You asked for the definition of terrorism; I provided it, since jhkim did not seem interested in doing so. I was not certain what you intended to apply it to, in reply to jhkim, since he had talked about several of those things. But since we have the definition in front of us, why won't you label "the people who broke into the Capitol" as domestic terrorists?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 11, 2021, 11:23:48 PM
And you've betrayed all of that to follow a pack of lying liars that endorse violence against Americans and attacks against America. Are you really so stupid? Oh well, at least you're all talk now, right?

You can not be a traitor for fighting American enemies both foreign and domestic.
The soldier doesn't designate enemies; that's for the government the soldier is serving to do. And that is why SHARK is a traitor.

Greetings!

I am not a traitor to anything. You are delusional.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Your denial gets weaker every time. Look in a mirror next time you want to see the face of the "enemy" because that's where you'll see a piece of shit advocating for violence against Americans and American institutions.

Greetings!

*Laughing* No, fuckstick, I am not the enemy. I haven't specifically advocated violence against Americans or American institutions, jackass. You have no understanding of Marxism, or its influence and infiltration into American society--nor do you fucking comprehend the threat to our Republic that Marxism presents. That is what I have advocated resisting, by all true Americans, in a variety of means. Which is what any true, patriotic American would and should support.

Unless, of course, you really do understand what Marxism is all about, because you approve of the Marxist-Globalist agenda.

But, you know what? Yeah, moron. Sometimes, violence must be used against different people. That's what the oath is all about, "Against all enemies, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC". It can become necessary, and I am a loyal patriot for supporting and honoring that sacred oath.

YOU obviously do not fucking understand it at all, or perhaps you do not care. Either way, I don't give a fuck if a wormy, coward pussy like you agrees or approves of me, or how I feel about it. You can get fucked.

You are a fucking moron and a coward. That's ok, though, jackass. The world is full of brainwashed pathetic sheep like you that are so fucking eager to get on their knees before tyranny. Wrapped up in bubble wrap, wearing your mask, groveling to the tyrant masters.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 11, 2021, 11:27:51 PM
It would have been really bad if any members of the police force had been killed by protestors but luckily the only ones hurt were the white protestors who were really asking for it by protesting against systemic corruption.

You have an ugly amount of denial over the death of Officer Sicknick, the fifteen officers hospitalized and the dozens more injured. At least you don't claim that the Capitol Building attackers were peaceful; that would be a harder bit of denial and you should have a spotter and stretch thoroughly before attempting it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/police-capitol-injuires-trump/2021/01/11/ca68e3e2-5438-11eb-a08b-f1381ef3d207_story.html
https://thehill.com/homenews/news/533274-Capitol-Police-say-reports-of-officer%27s-death-are-wrong-
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 11, 2021, 11:53:36 PM
It would have been really bad if any members of the police force had been killed by protestors but luckily the only ones hurt were the white protestors who were really asking for it by protesting against systemic corruption.

You have an ugly amount of denial over the death of Officer Sicknick, the fifteen officers hospitalized and the dozens more injured. At least you don't claim that the Capitol Building attackers were peaceful; that would be a harder bit of denial and you should have a spotter and stretch thoroughly before attempting it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/police-capitol-injuires-trump/2021/01/11/ca68e3e2-5438-11eb-a08b-f1381ef3d207_story.html
https://thehill.com/homenews/news/533274-Capitol-Police-say-reports-of-officer%27s-death-are-wrong-


Your quote says:

"Media outlets Thursday night incorrectly reported that a Capitol Hill police officer had died during the riot at the Capitol on Wednesday.
 
"Media reports regarding the death of a United States Capitol Police (USCP) officer are not accurate," Eva Malecki, communications director for the Capitol Police said in a statement. "Although some officers were injured and hospitalized yesterday, no USCP officers have passed away."

So what amount of denial should I have for poor officer Sicknick?  Every death is a tragedy.

And of course I never said that the protests were peaceful, they were only mostly peaceful interspersed with a minority of non-peace.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 11, 2021, 11:55:48 PM
I found rawmas terrorist, it was Aunt Tifa:

(https://i.chzbgr.com/full/9584774912/hB45CF018/youre-right-it-was-aunt-tifa-antifa-pun-old-lady-breaking-into-capitol-hill-2021-riots)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 12, 2021, 12:25:26 AM
It would have been really bad if any members of the police force had been killed by protestors but luckily the only ones hurt were the white protestors who were really asking for it by protesting against systemic corruption.

You have an ugly amount of denial over the death of Officer Sicknick, the fifteen officers hospitalized and the dozens more injured. At least you don't claim that the Capitol Building attackers were peaceful; that would be a harder bit of denial and you should have a spotter and stretch thoroughly before attempting it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/police-capitol-injuires-trump/2021/01/11/ca68e3e2-5438-11eb-a08b-f1381ef3d207_story.html
https://thehill.com/homenews/news/533274-Capitol-Police-say-reports-of-officer%27s-death-are-wrong-


Your quote says:

"Media outlets Thursday night incorrectly reported that a Capitol Hill police officer had died during the riot at the Capitol on Wednesday.
 
"Media reports regarding the death of a United States Capitol Police (USCP) officer are not accurate," Eva Malecki, communications director for the Capitol Police said in a statement. "Although some officers were injured and hospitalized yesterday, no USCP officers have passed away."

So what amount of denial should I have for poor officer Sicknick?  Every death is a tragedy.

Officer Sicknick died of injuries sustained on Wednesday, including reports of being struck with a fire extinguisher, but the death did not happen until after last Wednesday (hospitalized and died Friday). Homicide investigation is in progress. The link to a story from Thursday was to point out the large number of other injuries sustained.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 12, 2021, 12:32:27 AM
Quote from: 18 U.S. Code § 2331 - Definitions
(5) the term “domestic terrorism” means activities that—
(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
(B) appear to be intended—
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States;
The discussion I was having was about the destruction/attacks committed during BLM/Antifa riots which fall under (i), (ii) and maybe (iii) and therefore mark the perpetrators as terrorists by legal definition.

Individual isolated acts are not going to fall under the definition of terrorism, unless every criminal act dangerous to human life within the United States is domestic terrorism, which would make the definition pointless as a label (which jhkim seems to believe). At BLM protests, looting was more likely opportunistic than anything under B; vandalism on an irregular scale similarly does not appear to be aimed at anything under B. Most of the protesting did not involve criminal acts. The more extreme acts in the vicinity of BLM protests appear to have been mostly right-wingers, whether as a false flag or for their own purposes.


...and there you have it folks.  Apparently creating your own 'autonomous zone', burning government buildings or a crowd illegally obtaining access to areas for political intimidation do not count as terrorism...

Jesus, dude, you're really pathetic as a troll...


You also fail on the second part, since I never defended the people who broke into the Capitol...

You asked for the definition of terrorism; I provided it, since jhkim did not seem interested in doing so. I was not certain what you intended to apply it to, in reply to jhkim, since he had talked about several of those things. But since we have the definition in front of us, why won't you label "the people who broke into the Capitol" as domestic terrorists?


Well, maybe I intended to apply it to the post of jhkim's that I originally quoted...


BLM riots = doubleplusgood
Trump "riot" = doubleplusbad

I'd say: as far as actions done (leaving aside the cause), the various BLM protests and riots were mixed with some good and some bad (violent/non-violent). Trump protests have also been mixed and mostly good, but specifically storming the Capitol was worse than any single BLM event.


Ahhh...the old 'terrorism is ok as long as I agree with their political motives' defense.



...and, gee, I only clarified it a second time in post#196


I don't get how you read that from what I wrote. Terrorism is not OK in any case - and I am saying that violent BLM activities are wrong. Peaceful Trump demonstrations are good, and peaceful BLM demonstrations are good. If you think that there was a single BLM event that was worse than the Capitol storming, then specify it, and we can compare.

Which bit was the Terroism bit?

Was it when the Protestors were shot?

I think you're mixing up quotes here. moonsweeper was the one who brought up terrorism. I didn't make any claim about terrorism except to say that it is bad -- because moonsweeper accused me of saying that terrorism is OK.

I haven't made any claim about someone being a terrorist, and I feel like moonsweeper's bringing it up was a distraction - that apparently worked.

Nope, no distraction...here is the quote I referenced (Bolding is mine for emphasis)

BLM riots = doubleplusgood
Trump "riot" = doubleplusbad

I'd say: as far as actions done (leaving aside the cause), the various BLM protests and riots were mixed with some good and some bad (violent/non-violent). Trump protests have also been mixed and mostly good, but specifically storming the Capitol was worse than any single BLM event.

The Kavanaugh protests were purely non-violent. That doesn't mean that the protesters were right - just that how they conducted their protest was good.

So go ahead then...enlighten us as to what makes 'Terrorism A' not as bad as 'Terrorism B.'


...nope, apparently I am still not concerned about Kavanaugh...

As to your last question...if your reading comprehension wasn't so abysmal, you would have noticed this just 4 little posts ahead of yours...



But I am perfectly willing to go down the legal road of all violence for political ends is terrorism and should be investigated as such...but damn the police and FBI will have to open a few new offices in Portland and Seattle.   :D



I thought jhkim was bad, but I wouldn't wipe my ass with the degree someone felt sorry enough to give you.


To everybody else, who has a reading comprehension above Dick & Jane, I apologize for the wall of quotations.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: consolcwby on January 12, 2021, 12:49:00 AM
* INFO * INFO * INFO * INFO *
========================
Who here is willing to fight the whole of the U.S. military? Mr. Kim? rawma? HappyDaze? Others?
Who here is willing to die for the corruption forced upon us by a lying MSM/SM/Politicians?
Who here is willing to support FREEDOM, PEACE, UNITY?
Do you really think the internet was fully privatized? What entity owns the backbone? How is all information on the internet transmitted? Who captures the data?
YOU HAVE ALL BEEN WARNED! For the STORM is nearly upon us all. THIS IS YOUR LAST WARNING.
For some, HISTORY WILL NOT BE KIND.
---------------------------------------------------------
POTUS will not go on tv to address nation. POTUS must isolate himself to prevent negative optics. POTUS knew removing criminal rogue elements as a first step was essential to free and pass legislation. Who has access to everything classified? Do you believe HRC, Soros, Obama etc have more power than Trump? Fantasy.
Whoever controls the office of the Presidecy controls this great land.
They never believed for a moment they (Democrats and Republicans) would lose control. This is not a R v D battle.
If your expecting Trump to come out and announce that a secret operation will be launched, think again!

We were not told to storm the capitol.
We were not told to take up arms.
We were not told to have the second revolution.
We were told the hold the line, no retreat…

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/01/09/national-guard-troops-deploying-dc-will-come-lethal-weapons.html
BREAKING: National Guard says it will increase troops in DC to at least 10,000 by Saturday to boost security ahead of inauguration. DC is being LOCKED DOWN , NG is being brought in, Trump wants them to do the work, they think they are in control. The mayor of DC has been fooled into demanding them. They are locking themselves in, not the people out!

I shall reiterate:
Who controls the NG? Normally the states; the state governors. During peacetime each state National Guard answers to leadership in the 50 states, three territories and the District of Columbia. During national emergencies, however, the President reserves the right to mobilize the National Guard, putting them in federal duty status.
Can the NG work in coordination w/ the marines? Yes.

Do conditions need to be satisfied to authorize? The NG is mainly activated by the states, the POTUS needs Congressional approval to activate the NG. If the states activate them, POTUS can take control of them. This would allow the Marines and the NG to work together under one set of orders. This is shown in the Posse Comitatus Act where by the POTUS can take control. However, We are in a state of National Emergency due to Pandemic. Emergency powers have NOT been removed from POTUS. DEMS feel threatened. Why else impeach POTUS?

https://www.westernjournal.com/defense-officials-confirm-trump-still-commander-chief-refuse-participate-military-coup-oust/
Department of Defense officials intend to avoid outside pressure and continue to recognize him as the commander in chief:
“Mr. Trump, they noted, is still the commander in chief; unless he is removed, the military is bound to follow his lawful orders. While military officials can refuse to carry out orders they view as illegal — or slow the process by sending those orders for careful legal review — they cannot remove the president from the chain of command. That would amount to a military coup, the officials said,” Sanger and Schmitt reported.

THE STORM IS ALMOST HERE. DESPAIR WILL CONSUME UNLESS PRECAUTIONS ARE TAKEN NOW.
BE SAFE. BE CAREFUL. READ COMMS.

CONCOMMS:
-------------------
BEWARE of MAJOR FALSE FLAG attempts this week.
KNOW your surroundings.
CHANGE OF NEWS CYCLE WILL BE NEEDED.
--end---
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 12, 2021, 01:10:57 AM
You are so deeply out of touch these days:

(https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2021/01/capitol-attack-support-1024x675.png)


By the way, even among those who do not trust the election results, most still do not support what happened with the raid on the Capital. 35 percent of Americans don’t trust the election results. But only 8% support what happened at the Capital.

Yes, battle lines were drawn, and you chose the losing side. Like not even a question anymore, you're the loser in the room on this topic if you could only get 8% of America to side with your view. You can usually get more than 8% of America to side with ANY view. Make up any claim and poll on it and you can usually squeeze out more than 8% support on even the craziest position. That's how badly you lost this one.
There's that, and there's this:

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/trump_approval_index_history

Trump's approval rating went up the day after the mostly peaceful acts of Nazi terrorist patriotism in the Capitol. Just a point, but it still went up, and his approval rating is as high as it's ever been.

I'm not sure polls mean anything anymore.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: myleftnut on January 12, 2021, 01:30:02 AM
You are so deeply out of touch these days:

(https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2021/01/capitol-attack-support-1024x675.png)


By the way, even among those who do not trust the election results, most still do not support what happened with the raid on the Capital. 35 percent of Americans don’t trust the election results. But only 8% support what happened at the Capital.

Yes, battle lines were drawn, and you chose the losing side. Like not even a question anymore, you're the loser in the room on this topic if you could only get 8% of America to side with your view. You can usually get more than 8% of America to side with ANY view. Make up any claim and poll on it and you can usually squeeze out more than 8% support on even the craziest position. That's how badly you lost this one.
There's that, and there's this:

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/trump_approval_index_history

Trump's approval rating went up the day after the mostly peaceful acts of Nazi terrorist patriotism in the Capitol. Just a point, but it still went up, and his approval rating is as high as it's ever been.

I'm not sure polls mean anything anymore.

Polls have proven to be bs but Trump has a really effective cult of personality going.  All revolutionary movements have a supreme leader.  I personally think his enemies will destroy him in the end and the movement will fizzle out.  I don’t think another person could muster the charisma to keep it going as strongly.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 12, 2021, 07:44:28 AM
And you've betrayed all of that to follow a pack of lying liars that endorse violence against Americans and attacks against America. Are you really so stupid? Oh well, at least you're all talk now, right?

You can not be a traitor for fighting American enemies both foreign and domestic.
The soldier doesn't designate enemies; that's for the government the soldier is serving to do. And that is why SHARK is a traitor.

Greetings!

I am not a traitor to anything. You are delusional.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Your denial gets weaker every time. Look in a mirror next time you want to see the face of the "enemy" because that's where you'll see a piece of shit advocating for violence against Americans and American institutions.

Greetings!

*Laughing* No, fuckstick, I am not the enemy. I haven't specifically advocated violence against Americans or American institutions, jackass. You have no understanding of Marxism, or its influence and infiltration into American society--nor do you fucking comprehend the threat to our Republic that Marxism presents. That is what I have advocated resisting, by all true Americans, in a variety of means. Which is what any true, patriotic American would and should support.

Unless, of course, you really do understand what Marxism is all about, because you approve of the Marxist-Globalist agenda.

But, you know what? Yeah, moron. Sometimes, violence must be used against different people. That's what the oath is all about, "Against all enemies, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC". It can become necessary, and I am a loyal patriot for supporting and honoring that sacred oath.

YOU obviously do not fucking understand it at all, or perhaps you do not care. Either way, I don't give a fuck if a wormy, coward pussy like you agrees or approves of me, or how I feel about it. You can get fucked.

You are a fucking moron and a coward. That's ok, though, jackass. The world is full of brainwashed pathetic sheep like you that are so fucking eager to get on their knees before tyranny. Wrapped up in bubble wrap, wearing your mask, groveling to the tyrant masters.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
You're wrong about damn near everything you posted here. Try harder, with more thought and less of your butthurt feelings. You can do it...maybe...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 12, 2021, 08:10:34 AM

Ah now it makes sense. You guys have no country and have been the US's dogs for how long? No wonder you were collectivelly scrambling to get selfies with Trump after he threw paper towels at you, lol.

Say what you will about Venezuela, but at least they have a country. The US don't even want you, lol.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 12, 2021, 08:13:46 AM
You're wrong about damn near everything you posted here. Try harder, with more thought and less of your butthurt feelings. You can do it...maybe...

I've now seen that some veterans try to use their service as a kind of talisman to protect them from any and all criticism, lol. Anyone who defends these terroritsts should have a retroactive dishonorable discharge.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 12, 2021, 08:13:59 AM
Greetings!

Here Pleb Media has a very interesting discussion about the events on Jan 6 in DC, and more. Both the host Don, and the guest, Cannabis Conservative, were present during most of the day's events.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 12, 2021, 08:37:32 AM
1) Guam, Puerto Rico statehood. D.C. will not happen. But Guam and Puerto Rico? Definitely possible. All the RINO's have more incentive to go Democrat on everything because the Republican's have cut their own throat. If successful, this will lock up the Senate for generations.
Guam will never happen. 170,000 people vs. about 500,000 for the smallest House district. They'd need to triple the number of reps. Puerto Rico is more than large enough, but can the statehood movement overcome the independence movement, and is the US willing to accept a bankrupt state?

The independence movement in Puerto Rico is VERY weak, TBH. We have three traditional political parties based around the island's political status: Pro-Statehood (Partido Nuevo Progresista "New Progressive Party"), Pro-Commonwealth/Status Quo (Partido Popular Democratico "Popular Democratic Party") and Pro-Independence (Partido Independentista Puertorriqueño "Puerto Rican Independence Party"). And in my lifetime, the pro-independence party has never gotten more than 5% of the vote. There used to be paramilitary movements, but they got crushed decades ago and they never had broad popular support in my lifetime. They used to be stronger before I was born, but a bunch of them got caught after they tried an actual armed insurrection of the US Capitol (unlike what we saw last week), and it all went downhill from there.

Every time the push for statehood has been stalled, it has been from the pro-commonwealth/status quo side, with zero plans for independence. I've never heard anyone with broad popular appeal lay out some plans that captured the public's imagination about WTF we would do as an independent nation or WTF that government would look like. The dominant forces have always been the pro-statehood party and the pro-commonwealth/status quo party (either of which have won every election in my life), so for as long as I've been alive the fight has never been about statehood vs independence, but about people who want PR to become a state vs people who have NO plans beyond perpetually being a disenfranchised US colony forever. So what really needs to be overcome for PR to become a state (aside from the US gov actually accepting PR statehood) is not the independence movement, but blind, directionless inertia.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 12, 2021, 08:59:14 AM
You're wrong about damn near everything you posted here. Try harder, with more thought and less of your butthurt feelings. You can do it...maybe...

I've now seen that some veterans try to use their service as a kind of talisman to protect them from any and all criticism, lol. Anyone who defends these terroritsts should have a retroactive dishonorable discharge.
Wow, open up that can of worms, you unbelievable moron. Do you know what a D-D entails? You're effectively endorsing a felony conviction for wrongthink.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 12, 2021, 09:38:59 AM
I thought jhkim was bad, but I wouldn't wipe my ass with the degree someone felt sorry enough to give you.

TBH, I think jhkim is the least bad out of everybody on the other side of this discussion. I may not always agree with him and he may come off as obtuse a lot of the time, but at least he makes a semblance of an effort of arguing in good faith. Everyone else is just a clapback imbecile with no real counterarguments and absolutely nothing of value to add--just broad yet empty and snide declarations and dismissals--or brazenly biased and partisan to the point you might as well ignore their wall of text and convoluted rationalizations, and save yourself the trouble.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Arkansan on January 12, 2021, 11:19:44 AM
Looks like they just banned Ron Paul from Facebook.

FBI sent out a notice that their are armed protests being planned in all 50-states. I kinda call bullshit on this, it sounds like an invitation to a false-flag, but who knows.

Have you ever heard the expression "shipping coal to Newscastle"? Why would the FBI, Antifa, BLM, or anyone else bother to fabricate fascists when there are so many out there already?

Because the "fascists" aren't doing what the FBI wants them to do? Let's not act like American alphabet agencies don't have a long sordid history ginning things up. I mean for fucks sake they bent over backward to make Ruby Ridge happen. Not to mention several times they've (been caught) used agent provocateurs to hound someone who is mentally ill or low IQ in to doing an act of "terror" then proudly touted themselves as heroes for stopping it.

States and their constituent apparatus are entities that seek to grow and centralize, the appearance of both threat and success and deterring said threat is good for them.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 12, 2021, 11:50:34 AM
Looks like they just banned Ron Paul from Facebook.

FBI sent out a notice that their are armed protests being planned in all 50-states. I kinda call bullshit on this, it sounds like an invitation to a false-flag, but who knows.

Have you ever heard the expression "shipping coal to Newscastle"? Why would the FBI, Antifa, BLM, or anyone else bother to fabricate fascists when there are so many out there already?

Because the "fascists" aren't doing what the FBI wants them to do? Let's not act like American alphabet agencies don't have a long sordid history ginning things up. I mean for fucks sake they bent over backward to make Ruby Ridge happen. Not to mention several times they've (been caught) used agent provocateurs to hound someone who is mentally ill or low IQ in to doing an act of "terror" then proudly touted themselves as heroes for stopping it.

States and their constituent apparatus are entities that seek to grow and centralize, the appearance of both threat and success and deterring said threat is good for them.

What you need to understand is that US alphabet agencies may have been toppling foreign governments to plant US-controlled puppets and secure US interests abroad, planting false evidence and entrapping ordinary citizens who would otherwise have never seriously contemplated undertaking nefarious activities into engaging in acts of "terrorism" for almost a century, but the people protesting the Capitol are the fascists, and the ones defending the alphabet agencies are the anti-fascists.

Because logic.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 12, 2021, 11:50:41 AM
You're wrong about damn near everything you posted here. Try harder, with more thought and less of your butthurt feelings. You can do it...maybe...

I've now seen that some veterans try to use their service as a kind of talisman to protect them from any and all criticism, lol. Anyone who defends these terroritsts should have a retroactive dishonorable discharge.
Wow, open up that can of worms, you unbelievable moron. Do you know what a D-D entails? You're effectively endorsing a felony conviction for wrongthink.

§2385. Advocating overthrow of Government
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title18/part1/chapter115&edition=prelim

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 12, 2021, 12:06:00 PM
You're wrong about damn near everything you posted here. Try harder, with more thought and less of your butthurt feelings. You can do it...maybe...

I've now seen that some veterans try to use their service as a kind of talisman to protect them from any and all criticism, lol. Anyone who defends these terroritsts should have a retroactive dishonorable discharge.
Wow, open up that can of worms, you unbelievable moron. Do you know what a D-D entails? You're effectively endorsing a felony conviction for wrongthink.

§2385. Advocating overthrow of Government
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title18/part1/chapter115&edition=prelim
Cool story bro. Except that's not what you said, you dishonest bitch.

You want anyone who even defends them to be retroactively given a felony conviction. This strikes me as a great way to be retroactively aborted by way of high-speed lead injection.

But sure, go down that road. We'll be more than happy to whip it out for everyone from Jane Fonda to Pantifa.

Say when.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 12, 2021, 12:43:00 PM
You're wrong about damn near everything you posted here. Try harder, with more thought and less of your butthurt feelings. You can do it...maybe...

I've now seen that some veterans try to use their service as a kind of talisman to protect them from any and all criticism, lol. Anyone who defends these terroritsts should have a retroactive dishonorable discharge.
Wow, open up that can of worms, you unbelievable moron. Do you know what a D-D entails? You're effectively endorsing a felony conviction for wrongthink.

§2385. Advocating overthrow of Government
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title18/part1/chapter115&edition=prelim
Cool story bro. Except that's not what you said, you dishonest bitch.

You want anyone who even defends them to be retroactively given a felony conviction. This strikes me as a great way to be retroactively aborted by way of high-speed lead injection.

But sure, go down that road. We'll be more than happy to whip it out for everyone from Jane Fonda to Pantifa.

Say when.

lol, they can downgrade an honorable discharge if you're receiving retirement benefits. Not likely they would bother, but they should when you're advocating sedition, lol.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on January 12, 2021, 12:58:47 PM
Does your username refer to John Del Arroz?

If it refers to JDA, you could easily get lumped into punishment for wrongthinking; his public take on this is much different than yours. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 12, 2021, 01:02:55 PM
There's a difference between wrongthink and sedition. Last I checked, I haven't egged on or advocated sedition publicly nor privately for the violent overthrow of our democratic process, lol.

In any case, people here egging on violent sedition are not likely to get caught unless some incel loser turns into the next Timothy McVeigh. I doubt that the relevant authorities even know of this little anthill.  Shark's VA benefits will likely remain intact and his body will probably desecrate the national cemetery. Those are the sad facts.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on January 12, 2021, 01:12:14 PM
Thats not my point; I’m saying by the definition you’re using, JDA is/has currently engaged in seditious speech, and you’re advocating punishing that, while affiliating yourself at the same time.

Not hard to see potential unintended consequences there, if the consequences you state you want were to happen.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 12, 2021, 01:13:36 PM
RIght, just like I'd be associating myself with Condoleeza  if I called myself RiceWithMil instead? lol

Quote
Not hard to see potential unintended consequences there, if the consequences you state you want were to happen.

LOL Have you actually read any of the inflammatory, seditious shit written here??

Like, seriously, I understand the majority of the forum really loves Trump. I came to like him, despite myself, for much of his presidency. FOr the things he did right. He fucked up during covid, but even then I just thought he was being stupid/opportunistic. But all this seditious nonsense he has started since before the election even happened? Downright un-American, just like anyone defending it.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on January 12, 2021, 01:18:37 PM
You can LOL me 16 different ways, but all of them depend on a rigorous application of due process mostly absent from the priorities of those crying “sedition” the loudest.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 12, 2021, 01:20:06 PM
Oh yeah, all I want is for those advocating or engaging in voilence to get their day in court. you against that? But I'm realisitc. Other than a few who actually attacked the capitol, the chances of anyone online even getting a tap on the wrist are vanishingly tiny (like many an RPG site members' own penis).
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 12, 2021, 01:30:59 PM
Oh yeah, all I want is for those advocating or engaging in voilence to get their day in court. you against that? But I'm realisitc. Other than a few who actually attacked the capitol, the chances of anyone online even getting a tap on the wrist are vanishingly tiny (like many an RPG site members' penises).
And on that note, I think you can be safely relegated to the bitbucket. Nothing of value will be lost.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on January 12, 2021, 01:34:13 PM
I don’t think the likelihood of punishment for online badthink is vanishingly tiny anymore, no.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 12, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
So you're saying that the chance of getting prosecuted is larger than @Ghostmaker's micropenis?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 12, 2021, 01:40:35 PM
There's a difference between wrongthink and sedition. Last I checked, I haven't egged on or advocated sedition publicly nor privately for the violent overthrow of our democratic process, lol.

In any case, people here egging on violent sedition are not likely to get caught unless some incel loser turns into the next Timothy McVeigh. I doubt that the relevant authorities even know of this little anthill.  Shark's VA benefits will likely remain intact and his body will probably desecrate the national cemetery. Those are the sad facts.

Greetings!

Choke on it bitch. That's right, I'm such a monster. Fuck off, jackass.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 12, 2021, 01:43:07 PM
1) Guam, Puerto Rico statehood. D.C. will not happen. But Guam and Puerto Rico? Definitely possible. All the RINO's have more incentive to go Democrat on everything because the Republican's have cut their own throat. If successful, this will lock up the Senate for generations.
Guam will never happen. 170,000 people vs. about 500,000 for the smallest House district. They'd need to triple the number of reps. Puerto Rico is more than large enough, but can the statehood movement overcome the independence movement, and is the US willing to accept a bankrupt state?

The independence movement in Puerto Rico is VERY weak, TBH. We have three traditional political parties based around the island's political status: Pro-Statehood (Partido Nuevo Progresista "New Progressive Party"), Pro-Commonwealth/Status Quo (Partido Popular Democratico "Popular Democratic Party") and Pro-Independence (Partido Independentista Puertorriqueño "Puerto Rican Independence Party"). And in my lifetime, the pro-independence party has never gotten more than 5% of the vote. There used to be paramilitary movements, but they got crushed decades ago and they never had broad popular support in my lifetime. They used to be stronger before I was born, but a bunch of them got caught after they tried an actual armed insurrection of the US Capitol (unlike what we saw last week), and it all went downhill from there.

Every time the push for statehood has been stalled, it has been from the pro-commonwealth/status quo side, with zero plans for independence. I've never heard anyone with broad popular appeal lay out some plans that captured the public's imagination about WTF we would do as an independent nation or WTF that government would look like. The dominant forces have always been the pro-statehood party and the pro-commonwealth/status quo party (either of which have won every election in my life), so for as long as I've been alive the fight has never been about statehood vs independence, but about people who want PR to become a state vs people who have NO plans beyond perpetually being a disenfranchised US colony forever. So what really needs to be overcome for PR to become a state (aside from the US gov actually accepting PR statehood) is not the independence movement, but blind, directionless inertia.
Good to have an insider perspective. I was in San Juan during one of your periodic referendums, and there were parades and celebrations and a lot of, for lack of a better word, nationalistic fervor. Probably gave me the impression it was bigger than it really was, though everyone I talked to favored the status quo. Just too many tax and funding benefits, and abstract things like having a vote in national elections weren't as important. Seems to be a slow shift towards statehood over time, though, especially based on the last referendum.

How are the finances? That was covered a lot during the last storm, and most pundits were saying PR would have to get their house in order before statehood could even be considered.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 12, 2021, 01:46:53 PM
There's a difference between wrongthink and sedition. Last I checked, I haven't egged on or advocated sedition publicly nor privately for the violent overthrow of our democratic process, lol.

In any case, people here egging on violent sedition are not likely to get caught unless some incel loser turns into the next Timothy McVeigh. I doubt that the relevant authorities even know of this little anthill.  Shark's VA benefits will likely remain intact and his body will probably desecrate the national cemetery. Those are the sad facts.

Greetings!

Choke on it bitch. That's right, I'm such a monster. Fuck off, jackass.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Oh, SHARKy, you're so close to accepting that you're the monster. All it will take is you being a little more honest with yourself, and then perhaps you can start to be better.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: tenbones on January 12, 2021, 02:21:53 PM
1) Guam, Puerto Rico statehood. D.C. will not happen. But Guam and Puerto Rico? Definitely possible. All the RINO's have more incentive to go Democrat on everything because the Republican's have cut their own throat. If successful, this will lock up the Senate for generations.
Guam will never happen. 170,000 people vs. about 500,000 for the smallest House district. They'd need to triple the number of reps. Puerto Rico is more than large enough, but can the statehood movement overcome the independence movement, and is the US willing to accept a bankrupt state?

The independence movement in Puerto Rico is VERY weak, TBH. We have three traditional political parties based around the island's political status: Pro-Statehood (Partido Nuevo Progresista "New Progressive Party"), Pro-Commonwealth/Status Quo (Partido Popular Democratico "Popular Democratic Party") and Pro-Independence (Partido Independentista Puertorriqueño "Puerto Rican Independence Party"). And in my lifetime, the pro-independence party has never gotten more than 5% of the vote. There used to be paramilitary movements, but they got crushed decades ago and they never had broad popular support in my lifetime. They used to be stronger before I was born, but a bunch of them got caught after they tried an actual armed insurrection of the US Capitol (unlike what we saw last week), and it all went downhill from there.

Every time the push for statehood has been stalled, it has been from the pro-commonwealth/status quo side, with zero plans for independence. I've never heard anyone with broad popular appeal lay out some plans that captured the public's imagination about WTF we would do as an independent nation or WTF that government would look like. The dominant forces have always been the pro-statehood party and the pro-commonwealth/status quo party (either of which have won every election in my life), so for as long as I've been alive the fight has never been about statehood vs independence, but about people who want PR to become a state vs people who have NO plans beyond perpetually being a disenfranchised US colony forever. So what really needs to be overcome for PR to become a state (aside from the US gov actually accepting PR statehood) is not the independence movement, but blind, directionless inertia.
Good to have an insider perspective. I was in San Juan during one of your periodic referendums, and there were parades and celebrations and a lot of, for lack of a better word, nationalistic fervor. Probably gave me the impression it was bigger than it really was, though everyone I talked to favored the status quo. Just too many tax and funding benefits, and abstract things like having a vote in national elections weren't as important. Seems to be a slow shift towards statehood over time, though, especially based on the last referendum.

How are the finances? That was covered a lot during the last storm, and most pundits were saying PR would have to get their house in order before statehood could even be considered.

Yeah I'm curious about the current situation post-hurricane etc. What's the scoop?

Edit: My feelings, much like the Guam situation, is that if the Democrat Party wanted to push the issue, I don't think the will of the Puerto Rican people, nor any legal exemptions from Guam becoming a State will matter one iota to the Democrat party while they have both Houses and the Presidency. Coupled with the fact that the Republicans have a herd of Rino's in their ranks that want nothing more than to simp for the Dems, I don't imagine it would be much effort nor even controversial among themselves to make these moves. Vs. say Single Payer etc.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 12, 2021, 02:43:24 PM
There's a difference between wrongthink and sedition. Last I checked, I haven't egged on or advocated sedition publicly nor privately for the violent overthrow of our democratic process, lol.

In any case, people here egging on violent sedition are not likely to get caught unless some incel loser turns into the next Timothy McVeigh. I doubt that the relevant authorities even know of this little anthill.  Shark's VA benefits will likely remain intact and his body will probably desecrate the national cemetery. Those are the sad facts.

Greetings!

Choke on it bitch. That's right, I'm such a monster. Fuck off, jackass.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Oh, SHARKy, you're so close to accepting that you're the monster. All it will take is you being a little more honest with yourself, and then perhaps you can start to be better.

Greetings!

Be a little more honest with myself? There's nothing to be "More honest with myself" about. I watched the different videos from the day's events--live--at the time. President Trump's speech was awesome, and inspiring. A million, probably more than that, Americans gathered together for the rally was awesome, too. Pretty incredible to see. As far as the subsequent protest, that is their right to protest!

I haven't told anyone to murder anyone, or attack anyone, or burn any buildings down. I have not said that the government of the United States needs to be violently and unlawfully overthrown. I have not engaged in such myself, nor have I encouraged anyone do such a thing.

Sedition my ass. Stop being a lying, disgraceful fucktard.

As for you, or anyone else believing or thinking that a "coup" was engaged in during the events, well, in my opinion, you and others that believe such are brainwashed morons. The entire Leftist narrative put forth by the MSM and the Leftist politicians on the day is a fucking sham, a psyop, and absolute hateful propaganda, filled with lies, overblown, incendiary language, utter manipulation, and entirely designed to demonize half the fucking country that supports President Trump and opposes Marxism.

I think it is unfortunate that anyone died during the event--including Ashli Babbit, and unarmed veteran that was shot and killed by the capital police. The police officer that died--that too was unfortunate, and tragic. Some old people also died from medical conditions--also unfortunate. There were one million, two million? people present. There are always tensions during protests--which is what occured at the Capitol building. A protest, not a fucking "Insurrection" or a goddamned "Coup".

And as I mentioned before, there is evidence that ANTIFA provocatuers were also in the crowds, likely leading the way to instigating the violence that occured. I saw that with my own eyes watching live video, American Patriots chanting, "NO ANTIFA!" and attempting to restrain and discourage people present from any violence or vandalism. The FBI report is fucking wrong. I saw it and heard it right there in a video, with hundreds of people gathered about.

So, if there is anyone that should get honest with themselves, it is you.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK


Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 12, 2021, 02:46:40 PM
1) Guam, Puerto Rico statehood. D.C. will not happen. But Guam and Puerto Rico? Definitely possible. All the RINO's have more incentive to go Democrat on everything because the Republican's have cut their own throat. If successful, this will lock up the Senate for generations.
Guam will never happen. 170,000 people vs. about 500,000 for the smallest House district. They'd need to triple the number of reps. Puerto Rico is more than large enough, but can the statehood movement overcome the independence movement, and is the US willing to accept a bankrupt state?

The independence movement in Puerto Rico is VERY weak, TBH. We have three traditional political parties based around the island's political status: Pro-Statehood (Partido Nuevo Progresista "New Progressive Party"), Pro-Commonwealth/Status Quo (Partido Popular Democratico "Popular Democratic Party") and Pro-Independence (Partido Independentista Puertorriqueño "Puerto Rican Independence Party"). And in my lifetime, the pro-independence party has never gotten more than 5% of the vote. There used to be paramilitary movements, but they got crushed decades ago and they never had broad popular support in my lifetime. They used to be stronger before I was born, but a bunch of them got caught after they tried an actual armed insurrection of the US Capitol (unlike what we saw last week), and it all went downhill from there.

Every time the push for statehood has been stalled, it has been from the pro-commonwealth/status quo side, with zero plans for independence. I've never heard anyone with broad popular appeal lay out some plans that captured the public's imagination about WTF we would do as an independent nation or WTF that government would look like. The dominant forces have always been the pro-statehood party and the pro-commonwealth/status quo party (either of which have won every election in my life), so for as long as I've been alive the fight has never been about statehood vs independence, but about people who want PR to become a state vs people who have NO plans beyond perpetually being a disenfranchised US colony forever. So what really needs to be overcome for PR to become a state (aside from the US gov actually accepting PR statehood) is not the independence movement, but blind, directionless inertia.
Good to have an insider perspective. I was in San Juan during one of your periodic referendums, and there were parades and celebrations and a lot of, for lack of a better word, nationalistic fervor. Probably gave me the impression it was bigger than it really was, though everyone I talked to favored the status quo. Just too many tax and funding benefits, and abstract things like having a vote in national elections weren't as important. Seems to be a slow shift towards statehood over time, though, especially based on the last referendum.

How are the finances? That was covered a lot during the last storm, and most pundits were saying PR would have to get their house in order before statehood could even be considered.

Yeah I'm curious about the current situation post-hurricane etc. What's the scoop?

Edit: My feelings, much like the Guam situation, is that if the Democrat Party wanted to push the issue, I don't think the will of the Puerto Rican people, nor any legal exemptions from Guam becoming a State will matter one iota to the Democrat party while they have both Houses and the Presidency. Coupled with the fact that the Republicans have a herd of Rino's in their ranks that want nothing more than to simp for the Dems, I don't imagine it would be much effort nor even controversial among themselves to make these moves. Vs. say Single Payer etc.

Greetings!

Hey Tenbones! Yeah, I have talked to a number of PR as well, and they do not seem to be in a hurry to become a state. They like things the way they are.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 12, 2021, 02:47:59 PM
The current people that believe terrorists attacked the Capitol:

deadDMwalking,
rawma,
Elfdart
ArrozConLeche

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 12, 2021, 02:51:12 PM
Translation:

A few eggs were broken. What's the big deal? Antifa destroyed property. We were mostly peaceful.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 12, 2021, 02:55:53 PM
We've spent the past year being told by mainstream media and politicians that the police are systematically racist and engaging in a genocide of black Americans.
Suddenly people are concerned about cops getting hurt again.
How convenient.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 12, 2021, 02:56:43 PM
Who is we, kimosabe? lol

Maybe your opinion changes with the media winds, but not everyone's, :-
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 12, 2021, 02:57:04 PM
So, if there is anyone that should get honest with themselves, it is you.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Dont worry about HappyDaze SHARK.  He has not been the same since Chinese Corona Virus Derangement Syndrome broke his brain.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 12, 2021, 02:58:05 PM
We've spent the past year being told by mainstream media and politicians that the police are systematically racist and engaging in a genocide of black Americans.
Suddenly people are concerned about cops getting hurt again.
How convenient.
Funny how 'defund the police' disappeared off the narrative suddenly when it was their asses on the line and the chance to hammer down some dissent came into play.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 12, 2021, 02:59:47 PM
That's exactly why you're all the same as those your criticize. All of a sudden, police are just tragic casualties. BLue Lives don't matter anymore, eh.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 12, 2021, 03:03:42 PM
That's exactly why you're all the same as those your criticize. All of a sudden, police are just tragic casualties. BLue Lives don't matter anymore, eh.

Thats cute.  Pretending to care about the Police.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 12, 2021, 03:06:38 PM
yeppers. i'm not the one on record flip flopping. good luck in your search though. inche hypocrite.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 12, 2021, 03:07:04 PM
Translation:

A few eggs were broken. What's the big deal? Antifa destroyed property. We were mostly peaceful.



Greetings!

So, you don't think there is a difference between supporting people's right to protest, and pursue violence?

I think the people there had the right to protest, and make their voices heard. I don't think it was necessary for anyone to become violent.

Chris Cuomo, of CNN though, strangely disagrees. He said, when regarding BLM and ANTIFA riots during the summer, "Who said protests have to be peaceful or non violent?"

It's ok to be violent though, and murder people, and burn, and loot, right? That's what BLM and ANTIFA did for *months* across the country. The cock-sucking Marxist politicians and MSM were all in favour of that--many of which are on public record for supporting such, like AOC, Maxine Waters, and more. That's all good though, right?

The violence in DC on Jan 06 was unfortunate, and even tragic. After months of BLM and ANTIFA rioting across the country--often supported by the MSM and Marxist politicians--I don't think having some engage in such violence, considering the tensions involved, as being surprising. Even more so, when there is evidence that much of it was provoked by ANTIFA members that were also present, in an effort to heighten and provoke such tensions in a purposeful and coordinated manner.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 12, 2021, 03:08:40 PM
I agree those reporters have been hypocrites. But for so many people in here to turn on a dime and start doing the same? come on, bruh. that's just fucking disgusting. I had faith in ya'all.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 12, 2021, 03:10:02 PM
Quote
The violence in DC on Jan 06 was unfortunate, and even tragic. After months of BLM and ANTIFA rioting across the country--often supported by the MSM and Marxist politicians--I don't think having some engage in such violence, considering the tensions involved, as being surprising. Even more so, when there is evidence that much of it was provoked by ANTIFA members that were also present, in an effort to heighten and provoke such tensions in a purposeful and coordinated manner.

This here is hypocritical beyond belief. "ANTIFA DID IT!" isn't an excuse. I thought you knew better.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 12, 2021, 03:10:48 PM
yeppers. i'm not the one on record flip flopping. good luck in your search though. inche hypocrite.

Sure, we should believe all women!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 12, 2021, 03:15:02 PM
That's exactly why you're all the same as those your criticize. All of a sudden, police are just tragic casualties. BLue Lives don't matter anymore, eh.

I never said blue lives matter. I prefer the slogan All Lives Matter, though I tend to hate slogans as trite and mindless things to repeat to convince the person yelling them more than anyone else.

But then I condemned the riot way back in the previous thread. I think 1. All violence is deplorable and only to be used in extreme circumstances of self defense, and 2. We're way past the point of talking people down. Political violence has been justified by politicians and the mainstream media for years now, and they have no moral footing to stand on when it happens from a group they don't like.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 12, 2021, 03:16:59 PM
The only people I've been talking about are the flip floppers. Thought that was obivious.

What are the chances that anyone here who is now justifying the capitol attack was also down with the BLM and Antifa violence?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 12, 2021, 03:18:52 PM
Quote
The violence in DC on Jan 06 was unfortunate, and even tragic. After months of BLM and ANTIFA rioting across the country--often supported by the MSM and Marxist politicians--I don't think having some engage in such violence, considering the tensions involved, as being surprising. Even more so, when there is evidence that much of it was provoked by ANTIFA members that were also present, in an effort to heighten and provoke such tensions in a purposeful and coordinated manner.

This here is hypocritical beyond belief. "ANTIFA DID IT!" isn't an excuse. I thought you knew better.

Why is Antifa did it, not an excuse?

Why now you want people to be consistent?  My theory is that it is because the TV told you what to believe.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 12, 2021, 03:21:49 PM
Yeah, Mr. Rogers taught me not to be a hypocrite. Who taught you to be a hypocrite?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 12, 2021, 03:29:02 PM
Yeah, Mr. Rogers taught me not to be a hypocrite. Who taught you to be a hypocrite?

Grandma Nancy Pelosi and BLM.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 12, 2021, 03:34:00 PM
Yeah, Mr. Rogers taught me not to be a hypocrite. Who taught you to be a hypocrite?

Grandma Nancy Pelosi and BLM.

And you took to the lessons so easily! Natural talent for it.  Thank you for contributions in making the United States a shithole!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 12, 2021, 03:38:38 PM
...
The only people I've been talking about are the flip floppers. Thought that was obivious.

That's exactly why you're all the same as those your criticize. All of a sudden, police are just tragic casualties. BLue Lives don't matter anymore, eh.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 12, 2021, 03:38:52 PM
Yeah, Mr. Rogers taught me not to be a hypocrite. Who taught you to be a hypocrite?

Grandma Nancy Pelosi and BLM.

And you took to the lessons so easily! Natural talent for it.  Thank you for contributions in making the United States a shithole!

I had to hurry, BLM was doing such a good job that I was worried it would be a steaming pile of burned down shit before I got there.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 12, 2021, 03:41:02 PM
Translation:

A few eggs were broken. What's the big deal? Antifa destroyed property. We were mostly peaceful.



Greetings!

So, you don't think there is a difference between supporting people's right to protest, and pursue violence?

I think the people there had the right to protest, and make their voices heard. I don't think it was necessary for anyone to become violent.

Chris Cuomo, of CNN though, strangely disagrees. He said, when regarding BLM and ANTIFA riots during the summer, "Who said protests have to be peaceful or non violent?"

It's ok to be violent though, and murder people, and burn, and loot, right? That's what BLM and ANTIFA did for *months* across the country. The cock-sucking Marxist politicians and MSM were all in favour of that--many of which are on public record for supporting such, like AOC, Maxine Waters, and more. That's all good though, right?

The violence in DC on Jan 06 was unfortunate, and even tragic. After months of BLM and ANTIFA rioting across the country--often supported by the MSM and Marxist politicians--I don't think having some engage in such violence, considering the tensions involved, as being surprising. Even more so, when there is evidence that much of it was provoked by ANTIFA members that were also present, in an effort to heighten and provoke such tensions in a purposeful and coordinated manner.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
So now you see it as "unfortunate and tragic" rather than "AMAZING Lock and Load"? Look folks, SHARK has started spewing weasel words. He must have realized that openly endorsing violence is not OK, even in this place.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 12, 2021, 03:41:48 PM
Yeah, Mr. Rogers taught me not to be a hypocrite. Who taught you to be a hypocrite?

Grandma Nancy Pelosi and BLM.

And you took to the lessons so easily! Natural talent for it.  Thank you for contributions in making the United States a shithole!

I had to hurry, BLM was doing such a good job that I was worried it would be a steaming pile of burned down shit before I got there.

The stuident has surpassed the master. Excellent job, grasshopper!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 12, 2021, 03:49:09 PM
Seems they're looking at the cop's death as murder and have put out a photo of the primary suspect.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 12, 2021, 03:53:20 PM
Yeah, Mr. Rogers taught me not to be a hypocrite. Who taught you to be a hypocrite?

Grandma Nancy Pelosi and BLM.

And you took to the lessons so easily! Natural talent for it.  Thank you for contributions in making the United States a shithole!

I had to hurry, BLM was doing such a good job that I was worried it would be a steaming pile of burned down shit before I got there.

The stuident has surpassed the master. Excellent job, grasshopper!

That is what the TV said.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 12, 2021, 03:54:48 PM
So now you see it as "unfortunate and tragic" rather than "AMAZING Lock and Load"? Look folks, SHARK has started spewing weasel words. He must have realized that openly endorsing violence is not OK, even in this place.

Remember that time when AOC told her supporters to attack ICE and the poor idiot that believed her got shot for his troubles?

Ah, good times good time.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 12, 2021, 03:56:43 PM
Remember that time Bernie Sanders campaigned to be elected President of the USA on his history of illegally protesting federal facilities?

Ah, good times good times.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 12, 2021, 03:58:20 PM
Remember that time when people decided that they wanted everyone else to be consistent with their beliefs?

Oh wait that was Tuesday
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 12, 2021, 03:59:46 PM
I will say as regards the Trump movement in general, I have three significant overlaps with it:

1) Opposition to greater control by major corporations and billionaires.
2) Opposition to foreign wars, like the Iraq War pursued by George W. Bush.
3) Valuing of free speech

But I also have major differences with it, in environmental policy (weakening environmental regulations), in economic policy (run up the deficit, tax cuts to the rich), and in foreign policy (pissing off democratic allies while continuing to pal up with Saudi Arabia).


I watched the different videos from the day's events--live--at the time. President Trump's speech was awesome, and inspiring. A million, probably more than that, Americans gathered together for the rally was awesome, too. Pretty incredible to see. As far as the subsequent protest, that is their right to protest!

I haven't told anyone to murder anyone, or attack anyone, or burn any buildings down. I have not said that the government of the United States needs to be violently and unlawfully overthrown. I have not engaged in such myself, nor have I encouraged anyone do such a thing.

As confirmed by their own words, I believe that the protesters intended to *force* Congress members to not endorse the Electoral College vote. They thought that by a show of strength in breaking into the building and confronting the members directly, then the Senate would back down and agree to their demands of challenging the Electoral vote.

I don't think that I am mischaracterizing them in this.

But I believe that is using force to intimidate and threaten Congress. We can see in the pictures that Congress members were afraid for their personal well being. They were hiding under desks, and fled the chambers under armed guard. I would say the same thing about Senator Rand Paul being threatened by a crowd after the RNC. The point isn't how much harm actually happened to him - the point is that he was personally threatened and intimidated.

I think this sort of direct physical intimidation of elected officials is completely counter to democracy. Allowing it without the highest punishment is turning the government into a sham.

Not all direct action is physical threat. As I noted earlier, the Kavanaugh protesters were highly visible - and they blocked hallways and made noise, but no one was physically threatened by them.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 12, 2021, 04:05:18 PM
To be fair, here is a clip of Republicans calling for rioting in the streets:

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 12, 2021, 04:09:24 PM
Sorry got my clips confused, that was the Democrats calling for riots in the street.

My bad.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 12, 2021, 04:10:07 PM
Remember Mad Maxine Waters calling for her followers to 'get in their faces, don't let them have any peace'?

Pepperidge Farms remembers.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 12, 2021, 04:34:38 PM
Remember that time when people decided that they wanted everyone else to be consistent with their beliefs?

Oh wait that was Tuesday

So who here are you claiming has been inconsistent in their beliefs? I'll nominate SHARK, with his posts:

Quote from: SHARK
*Thousands* of American patriots all singing the National Anthem as more patriots storm the Capital building!

Huge chants of "OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE!"

More chanting, "USA! USA! USA!"

Hundreds of Americans pouring inside the doors! Thousands everywhere, surrounding everything!

Fucking LOCK AND LOAD!!! Amazing!
(ref) (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159401/#msg1159401)

The violence in DC on Jan 06 was unfortunate, and even tragic. After months of BLM and ANTIFA rioting across the country--often supported by the MSM and Marxist politicians--I don't think having some engage in such violence, considering the tensions involved, as being surprising. Even more so, when there is evidence that much of it was provoked by ANTIFA members that were also present, in an effort to heighten and provoke such tensions in a purposeful and coordinated manner.
(ref) (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/live-coverage-of-rally-for-president-trump-in-dc!-01062021/msg1160254/#msg1160254)


Outside this forum, sure - there are plenty of people all over the political spectrum who are inconsistent in their beliefs. Citing individual people in the wider world who are inconsistent will be an awfully long list.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 12, 2021, 04:52:25 PM
Pepperidge Farms remembers.
Who posted shit supporting the criminal actions in DC on 1/6/21?

The internet remembers.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 12, 2021, 05:00:49 PM
Remember that time when people decided that they wanted everyone else to be consistent with their beliefs?

Oh wait that was Tuesday

So who here are you claiming has been inconsistent in their beliefs? I'll nominate SHARK, with his posts:

Quote from: SHARK
*Thousands* of American patriots all singing the National Anthem as more patriots storm the Capital building!

Huge chants of "OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE!"

More chanting, "USA! USA! USA!"

Hundreds of Americans pouring inside the doors! Thousands everywhere, surrounding everything!

Fucking LOCK AND LOAD!!! Amazing!
(ref) (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159401/#msg1159401)

The violence in DC on Jan 06 was unfortunate, and even tragic. After months of BLM and ANTIFA rioting across the country--often supported by the MSM and Marxist politicians--I don't think having some engage in such violence, considering the tensions involved, as being surprising. Even more so, when there is evidence that much of it was provoked by ANTIFA members that were also present, in an effort to heighten and provoke such tensions in a purposeful and coordinated manner.
(ref) (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/live-coverage-of-rally-for-president-trump-in-dc!-01062021/msg1160254/#msg1160254)


Outside this forum, sure - there are plenty of people all over the political spectrum who are inconsistent in their beliefs. Citing individual people in the wider world who are inconsistent will be an awfully long list.

Greetings!

Yeah, damn right I was excited, and enthusiastic, Jhkim. It was amazing to see, especially live like that, with so many people there.

I also note that of the people I saw--no one was armed, and there wasn't any real violence going on aside from *some* wrestling and pushing with police officers, in some areas. Other areas, the police weren't doing anything. None the less, I did not want anyone to be assaulted, or killed, whether patriots, police, or whoever. Nothing inconsistent at all.

As AOC declared, "Protests are uncomfortable. People should be forced to be uncomfortable." *paraphrasing* So, again, was it appropriate for people to march, and wave flags, and scream, and make the fat, elitist and corrupt politicians listen to angry citizens, even if they were made *uncomfortable*? Well, fuck yeah. Why not? AOC and many other political and media leaders that cock-sucking Leftists love to suck on certainly think that is all fine and good.

I make no apologies, so stop trying to insist that I'm "inconsistent". I remember watching the whole cities fucking *BURN*, people being beaten and killed, stores being destroyed and looted, with thousands of fucking BLM and ANTIFA people marching and screaming, and calling for people to be killed--and the protest at the Capitol building was nothing close to any of that, which went on in city after fucking city, and like in Portland, Oregon, every fucking night--while the politicians did nothing. In fact, political leaders like Mayor Wheeler, the Portland AG, specifically refused to prosecute anyone, for anything. Meanwhile numerous other political and media leaders praised the BLM and ANTIFA as good and noble, and justified in making their voices heard, and expressing their rage.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 12, 2021, 05:03:21 PM
I make no apologies, so stop trying to insist that I'm "inconsistent". I remember watching the whole cities fucking *BURN*, people being beaten and killed, stores being destroyed and looted, with thousands of fucking BLM and ANTIFA people marching and screaming, and calling for people to be killed--and the protest at the Capitol building was nothing close to any of that, which went on in city after fucking city, and like in Portland, Oregon, every fucking night--while the politicians did nothing. In fact, political leaders like Mayor Wheeler, the Portland AG, specifically refused to prosecute anyone, for anything. Meanwhile numerous other political and media leaders praised the BLM and ANTIFA as good and noble, and justified in making their voices heard, and expressing their rage.

And you are their equivalent on the other side! Congratulations!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on January 12, 2021, 05:08:10 PM
Leaving aside the capital and speaking generally, the two flip sides of consistency and hypocrisy are both stupid.  Beyond those bedrock beliefs each person has, that they would rather die than violate, it is no virtue to extend rigidity broadly across all the beliefs you hold.  Nearly all of them are conditional, and should be recognized as such

This is why “you’re a hypocrite” changes no one's mind, and never has since rhetoric was identified.  If you’ve ever promised someone you will hold to a particular (not-bedrock) belief regardless of any outcome that would stem from your holding it, you’re a moron putting a ring in your nose, to be lead around with by more pragmatic individuals.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 12, 2021, 05:10:21 PM
So at least be honest and say outright that you think you have exclusive rights to being a violent moron.

It's also very rich in irony to say that given that the bread and butter of this board is pointing out how hypocritical the left is, lol. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 12, 2021, 05:16:53 PM
As confirmed by their own words, I believe that the protesters intended to *force* Congress members to not endorse the Electoral College vote. They thought that by a show of strength in breaking into the building and confronting the members directly, then the Senate would back down and agree to their demands of challenging the Electoral vote.

I like to distinguish between protest and riot. We have linked to protesters who wanted to peacefully voice their dissatisfaction with how the election was investigated. That was their stated goal.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 12, 2021, 05:29:41 PM
As confirmed by their own words, I believe that the protesters intended to *force* Congress members to not endorse the Electoral College vote. They thought that by a show of strength in breaking into the building and confronting the members directly, then the Senate would back down and agree to their demands of challenging the Electoral vote.

I like to distinguish between protest and riot. We have linked to protesters who wanted to peacefully voice their dissatisfaction with how the election was investigated. That was their stated goal.
Not for all of them. The FBI are investigating a whole lot of them that had planned & organized illegal actions online. Every time they find one, that one's electronic trail shows even more.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 12, 2021, 05:32:28 PM
Remember that time when people decided that they wanted everyone else to be consistent with their beliefs?

Oh wait that was Tuesday

So who here are you claiming has been inconsistent in their beliefs? I'll nominate SHARK, with his posts:

Quote from: SHARK
*Thousands* of American patriots all singing the National Anthem as more patriots storm the Capital building!

Huge chants of "OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE!"

More chanting, "USA! USA! USA!"

Hundreds of Americans pouring inside the doors! Thousands everywhere, surrounding everything!

Fucking LOCK AND LOAD!!! Amazing!
(ref) (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159401/#msg1159401)

The violence in DC on Jan 06 was unfortunate, and even tragic. After months of BLM and ANTIFA rioting across the country--often supported by the MSM and Marxist politicians--I don't think having some engage in such violence, considering the tensions involved, as being surprising. Even more so, when there is evidence that much of it was provoked by ANTIFA members that were also present, in an effort to heighten and provoke such tensions in a purposeful and coordinated manner.
(ref) (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/live-coverage-of-rally-for-president-trump-in-dc!-01062021/msg1160254/#msg1160254)


Outside this forum, sure - there are plenty of people all over the political spectrum who are inconsistent in their beliefs. Citing individual people in the wider world who are inconsistent will be an awfully long list.

Greetings!

Yeah, damn right I was excited, and enthusiastic, Jhkim. It was amazing to see, especially live like that, with so many people there.

I also note that of the people I saw--no one was armed, and there wasn't any real violence going on aside from *some* wrestling and pushing with police officers, in some areas. Other areas, the police weren't doing anything. None the less, I did not want anyone to be assaulted, or killed, whether patriots, police, or whoever. Nothing inconsistent at all.

As AOC declared, "Protests are uncomfortable. People should be forced to be uncomfortable." *paraphrasing* So, again, was it appropriate for people to march, and wave flags, and scream, and make the fat, elitist and corrupt politicians listen to angry citizens, even if they were made *uncomfortable*? Well, fuck yeah. Why not? AOC and many other political and media leaders that cock-sucking Leftists love to suck on certainly think that is all fine and good.

I make no apologies, so stop trying to insist that I'm "inconsistent". I remember watching the whole cities fucking *BURN*, people being beaten and killed, stores being destroyed and looted, with thousands of fucking BLM and ANTIFA people marching and screaming, and calling for people to be killed--and the protest at the Capitol building was nothing close to any of that, which went on in city after fucking city, and like in Portland, Oregon, every fucking night--while the politicians did nothing. In fact, political leaders like Mayor Wheeler, the Portland AG, specifically refused to prosecute anyone, for anything. Meanwhile numerous other political and media leaders praised the BLM and ANTIFA as good and noble, and justified in making their voices heard, and expressing their rage.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Oh, bullshit, you fucking liar. You always hype up pro-Trump or anti-Left violence with whatever shitty ass rationalizations your Trump-addled mind can come up with. I wonder if you will come to the FBI's attention if your words of encouragement for the violence are found on someone's electronic trail. They are looking.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on January 12, 2021, 05:42:37 PM
So at least be honest and say outright that you think you have exclusive rights to being a violent moron.

It's also very rich in irony to say that given that the bread and butter of this board is pointing out how hypocritical the left is, lol.

Your “lets be honest” is a cardboard caricature; all it does is identify the level of complexity you can handle.  Things aren’t quite that simple.  You, yourself, apply different standards to varying circumstances every day of your life.

I’m not the board, and find the fascination with left hypocrisy a waste of time.  I use it sparingly, to discredit, when I’m playing to a neutral audience who would be sympathetic to the argument.  But no, I don’t get worked up over leftists behaving in accordance with all of their beliefs. 

Most hypocrisy arguments, when made from a genuine disgust, are made by those who are unwilling to come to grips with what the target of their argument really is, as opposed to what they wish them to be.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 12, 2021, 05:43:03 PM
1) Guam, Puerto Rico statehood. D.C. will not happen. But Guam and Puerto Rico? Definitely possible. All the RINO's have more incentive to go Democrat on everything because the Republican's have cut their own throat. If successful, this will lock up the Senate for generations.
Guam will never happen. 170,000 people vs. about 500,000 for the smallest House district. They'd need to triple the number of reps. Puerto Rico is more than large enough, but can the statehood movement overcome the independence movement, and is the US willing to accept a bankrupt state?

The independence movement in Puerto Rico is VERY weak, TBH. We have three traditional political parties based around the island's political status: Pro-Statehood (Partido Nuevo Progresista "New Progressive Party"), Pro-Commonwealth/Status Quo (Partido Popular Democratico "Popular Democratic Party") and Pro-Independence (Partido Independentista Puertorriqueño "Puerto Rican Independence Party"). And in my lifetime, the pro-independence party has never gotten more than 5% of the vote. There used to be paramilitary movements, but they got crushed decades ago and they never had broad popular support in my lifetime. They used to be stronger before I was born, but a bunch of them got caught after they tried an actual armed insurrection of the US Capitol (unlike what we saw last week), and it all went downhill from there.

Every time the push for statehood has been stalled, it has been from the pro-commonwealth/status quo side, with zero plans for independence. I've never heard anyone with broad popular appeal lay out some plans that captured the public's imagination about WTF we would do as an independent nation or WTF that government would look like. The dominant forces have always been the pro-statehood party and the pro-commonwealth/status quo party (either of which have won every election in my life), so for as long as I've been alive the fight has never been about statehood vs independence, but about people who want PR to become a state vs people who have NO plans beyond perpetually being a disenfranchised US colony forever. So what really needs to be overcome for PR to become a state (aside from the US gov actually accepting PR statehood) is not the independence movement, but blind, directionless inertia.
Good to have an insider perspective. I was in San Juan during one of your periodic referendums, and there were parades and celebrations and a lot of, for lack of a better word, nationalistic fervor. Probably gave me the impression it was bigger than it really was, though everyone I talked to favored the status quo. Just too many tax and funding benefits, and abstract things like having a vote in national elections weren't as important. Seems to be a slow shift towards statehood over time, though, especially based on the last referendum.

How are the finances? That was covered a lot during the last storm, and most pundits were saying PR would have to get their house in order before statehood could even be considered.
Yeah I'm curious about the current situation post-hurricane etc. What's the scoop?

Edit: My feelings, much like the Guam situation, is that if the Democrat Party wanted to push the issue, I don't think the will of the Puerto Rican people, nor any legal exemptions from Guam becoming a State will matter one iota to the Democrat party while they have both Houses and the Presidency. Coupled with the fact that the Republicans have a herd of Rino's in their ranks that want nothing more than to simp for the Dems, I don't imagine it would be much effort nor even controversial among themselves to make these moves. Vs. say Single Payer etc.

Yeah, that's the thing. Any time you go to a protest in Puerto Rico you're gonna find a lot of nationalistic sentiment, but a lot of those people favor the status quo and vote for the pro-commonwealth party, and for the status quo during referendums rather than for independence. Part of the problem is that the pro-commonwealth party was founded by Luis Muñoz Marín, who was the first Puerto Rican governor elected in the island, one of the people who established the Puerto Rican commonwealth (Estado Libre Asociado, or “Free Associated State”) and a very prominent political figure in his day. And he was such a popular character that older people who were alive in his day and may have had nationalistic sentiment kept voting for his party—which is NOT a nationalistic party—which ended up cementing the pro-commonwealth party’s dominance in the island, along with the pro-statehood party as its main opposition, and completely sidelining the pro-independence party and movement (he also helped suppress Nationalist movements in the island, but that’s another rabbit hole covered in his Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Mu%C3%B1oz_Mar%C3%ADn#Passage_of_Law_53_(the_Gag_Law))).

And to compound matters further, a lot of the old hardcore nationalistic movements were Marxist socialists anti-Capitalist/US Government types out in the fringes, with the paramilitary types getting aid from Cuba and such, so they all eventually got crushed by the feds. So independence movements never gained much popular support, partly out of fear that Puerto Rico would turn into something like Communist Cuba if it gained its independence (which is something I used to hear a lot growing up as a kid).

Another thing to consider is that every time we get these large protests a lot of the more ardent pro-independence people tend to attend those events, while most of the normal everyday people that don't really care that much about politics just stay at home. So if you talk to the people at the protests you're gonna get a lot of skewed perspectives that don't necessarily match what the average person in the island thinks or wants, because most of the minority pro-independence crowd are gonna be at those events (however, people who attend the protests also tend to be better educated about the issues than the non-political folk, so they might still bring up valid points). But most average people just wanna get through their everyday lives without disruptions and none of them wanna give up their US citizenship.

Ironically, I haven’t been following the situation in the island as closely as I’ve been following US politics or the pandemic, but the situation has been pretty much a bumpy ride since the hurricane, followed by the earthquake (and aftershocks that caused further damage), and now with the pandemic things have pretty much gone to hell, and I have no clue if/when we will ever recover. We had like three different governors in one single term, since the one that was on during the hurricane had to resign due to scandals (mostly about spicy comments made in some chat logs that surfaced, rather than due to his rampant mismanagement of the crisis after the hurricane), the one that followed was annulled due to scandals related to the first one (don’t think he was even allowed to officially become active governor), and the third managed to complete her term, but was unable to secure the nomination to run for governor again. Then the second one of these three governors (Pedro Pierluisi, who has been the target of numerous conflict of interest and corruption allegations) somehow managed to become governor again during the last election, which is a testament to how ineffective and corrupt our government and the two dominant parties are.

However, the last election saw a resurgence of third party candidates, with three of them getting a significant portion of the votes—far greater than at any other time in the island’s history—which is an indicator that the island has been losing faith in the two parties that have been dominant throughout its history as the “Free Associated State”. The one who got the most votes was Alexandra Lúgaro, who got 14.21% and I voted for in 2016, but refrained from voting for this time around, cuz she buys into Intersectionality and had been pushing to get LGBT courses into schools. So I basically sat this one out and stayed at home following the US elections, but with some reservations, since I considered her otherwise to be the best candidate. But I just couldn’t bring myself to vote to bring wokeness into the island in the current political climate. Plus my vote wouldn’t have been enough to make her win anyways, but she current has the most votes of any independent/third party candidate in the island’s history.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 12, 2021, 05:50:46 PM
As confirmed by their own words, I believe that the protesters intended to *force* Congress members to not endorse the Electoral College vote. They thought that by a show of strength in breaking into the building and confronting the members directly, then the Senate would back down and agree to their demands of challenging the Electoral vote.
I like to distinguish between protest and riot. We have linked to protesters who wanted to peacefully voice their dissatisfaction with how the election was investigated. That was their stated goal.
Not for all of them. The FBI are investigating a whole lot of them that had planned & organized illegal actions online. Every time they find one, that one's electronic trail shows even more.

I'm sure that some of the Trump supporters at the Capitol only wanted to voice dissatisfaction. However, from what I see of the crowds and interviews, they were not shocked at their fellows breaking in by force. When the police were shoved past and doors and windows broken in, lots of people continued to cheer. I think it's fair to say that a large fraction of them were in support of breaking in and demanding change.

Also, an important note: there's a huge difference between *illegal* and *violent*. Lots of peaceful protests have been *illegal*. Martin Luther King Jr was jailed multiple times, for example. Often protesters can be arrested for various crimes like "crowding, obstructing, or incommoding" or just demonstrating without a permit.

But if the targets of the demonstration are legitimately in fear for their physical safety, then that goes past "illegal" and into "violent".
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 12, 2021, 05:55:16 PM
Remember that time when people decided that they wanted everyone else to be consistent with their beliefs?

Oh wait that was Tuesday

So who here are you claiming has been inconsistent in their beliefs? I'll nominate SHARK, with his posts:

Quote from: SHARK
*Thousands* of American patriots all singing the National Anthem as more patriots storm the Capital building!

Huge chants of "OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE!"

More chanting, "USA! USA! USA!"

Hundreds of Americans pouring inside the doors! Thousands everywhere, surrounding everything!

Fucking LOCK AND LOAD!!! Amazing!
(ref) (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159401/#msg1159401)

The violence in DC on Jan 06 was unfortunate, and even tragic. After months of BLM and ANTIFA rioting across the country--often supported by the MSM and Marxist politicians--I don't think having some engage in such violence, considering the tensions involved, as being surprising. Even more so, when there is evidence that much of it was provoked by ANTIFA members that were also present, in an effort to heighten and provoke such tensions in a purposeful and coordinated manner.
(ref) (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/live-coverage-of-rally-for-president-trump-in-dc!-01062021/msg1160254/#msg1160254)


Outside this forum, sure - there are plenty of people all over the political spectrum who are inconsistent in their beliefs. Citing individual people in the wider world who are inconsistent will be an awfully long list.

Greetings!

Yeah, damn right I was excited, and enthusiastic, Jhkim. It was amazing to see, especially live like that, with so many people there.

I also note that of the people I saw--no one was armed, and there wasn't any real violence going on aside from *some* wrestling and pushing with police officers, in some areas. Other areas, the police weren't doing anything. None the less, I did not want anyone to be assaulted, or killed, whether patriots, police, or whoever. Nothing inconsistent at all.

As AOC declared, "Protests are uncomfortable. People should be forced to be uncomfortable." *paraphrasing* So, again, was it appropriate for people to march, and wave flags, and scream, and make the fat, elitist and corrupt politicians listen to angry citizens, even if they were made *uncomfortable*? Well, fuck yeah. Why not? AOC and many other political and media leaders that cock-sucking Leftists love to suck on certainly think that is all fine and good.

I make no apologies, so stop trying to insist that I'm "inconsistent". I remember watching the whole cities fucking *BURN*, people being beaten and killed, stores being destroyed and looted, with thousands of fucking BLM and ANTIFA people marching and screaming, and calling for people to be killed--and the protest at the Capitol building was nothing close to any of that, which went on in city after fucking city, and like in Portland, Oregon, every fucking night--while the politicians did nothing. In fact, political leaders like Mayor Wheeler, the Portland AG, specifically refused to prosecute anyone, for anything. Meanwhile numerous other political and media leaders praised the BLM and ANTIFA as good and noble, and justified in making their voices heard, and expressing their rage.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Oh, bullshit, you fucking liar. You always hype up pro-Trump or anti-Left violence with whatever shitty ass rationalizations your Trump-addled mind can come up with. I wonder if you will come to the FBI's attention if your words of encouragement for the violence are found on someone's electronic trail. They are looking.

Greetings!

Choke on it, wormy little bitch. It's always fun to see you squirm and clutch your pearls like the cuck you are.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: tenbones on January 12, 2021, 05:58:13 PM
The math will sort itself out.

This thread cracks me up.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 12, 2021, 06:03:49 PM
1) Guam, Puerto Rico statehood. D.C. will not happen. But Guam and Puerto Rico? Definitely possible. All the RINO's have more incentive to go Democrat on everything because the Republican's have cut their own throat. If successful, this will lock up the Senate for generations.
Guam will never happen. 170,000 people vs. about 500,000 for the smallest House district. They'd need to triple the number of reps. Puerto Rico is more than large enough, but can the statehood movement overcome the independence movement, and is the US willing to accept a bankrupt state?

The independence movement in Puerto Rico is VERY weak, TBH. We have three traditional political parties based around the island's political status: Pro-Statehood (Partido Nuevo Progresista "New Progressive Party"), Pro-Commonwealth/Status Quo (Partido Popular Democratico "Popular Democratic Party") and Pro-Independence (Partido Independentista Puertorriqueño "Puerto Rican Independence Party"). And in my lifetime, the pro-independence party has never gotten more than 5% of the vote. There used to be paramilitary movements, but they got crushed decades ago and they never had broad popular support in my lifetime. They used to be stronger before I was born, but a bunch of them got caught after they tried an actual armed insurrection of the US Capitol (unlike what we saw last week), and it all went downhill from there.

Every time the push for statehood has been stalled, it has been from the pro-commonwealth/status quo side, with zero plans for independence. I've never heard anyone with broad popular appeal lay out some plans that captured the public's imagination about WTF we would do as an independent nation or WTF that government would look like. The dominant forces have always been the pro-statehood party and the pro-commonwealth/status quo party (either of which have won every election in my life), so for as long as I've been alive the fight has never been about statehood vs independence, but about people who want PR to become a state vs people who have NO plans beyond perpetually being a disenfranchised US colony forever. So what really needs to be overcome for PR to become a state (aside from the US gov actually accepting PR statehood) is not the independence movement, but blind, directionless inertia.
Good to have an insider perspective. I was in San Juan during one of your periodic referendums, and there were parades and celebrations and a lot of, for lack of a better word, nationalistic fervor. Probably gave me the impression it was bigger than it really was, though everyone I talked to favored the status quo. Just too many tax and funding benefits, and abstract things like having a vote in national elections weren't as important. Seems to be a slow shift towards statehood over time, though, especially based on the last referendum.

How are the finances? That was covered a lot during the last storm, and most pundits were saying PR would have to get their house in order before statehood could even be considered.
Yeah I'm curious about the current situation post-hurricane etc. What's the scoop?

Edit: My feelings, much like the Guam situation, is that if the Democrat Party wanted to push the issue, I don't think the will of the Puerto Rican people, nor any legal exemptions from Guam becoming a State will matter one iota to the Democrat party while they have both Houses and the Presidency. Coupled with the fact that the Republicans have a herd of Rino's in their ranks that want nothing more than to simp for the Dems, I don't imagine it would be much effort nor even controversial among themselves to make these moves. Vs. say Single Payer etc.

Yeah, that's the thing. Any time you go to a protest in Puerto Rico you're gonna find a lot of nationalistic sentiment, but a lot of those people favor the status quo and vote for the pro-commonwealth party, and for the status quo during referendums rather than for independence. Part of the problem is that the pro-commonwealth party was founded by Luis Muñoz Marín, who was the first Puerto Rican governor elected in the island, one of the people who established the Puerto Rican commonwealth (Estado Libre Asociado, or “Free Associated State”) and a very prominent political figure in his day. And he was such a popular character that older people who were alive in his day and may have had nationalistic sentiment kept voting for his party—which is NOT a nationalistic party—which ended up cementing the pro-commonwealth party’s dominance in the island, along with the pro-statehood party as its main opposition, and completely sidelining the pro-independence party and movement (he also helped suppress Nationalist movements in the island, but that’s another rabbit hole covered in his Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Mu%C3%B1oz_Mar%C3%ADn#Passage_of_Law_53_(the_Gag_Law))).

And to compound matters further, a lot of the old hardcore nationalistic movements were Marxist socialists anti-Capitalist/US Government types out in the fringes, with the paramilitary types getting aid from Cuba and such, so they all eventually got crushed by the feds. So independence movements never gained much popular support, partly out of fear that Puerto Rico would turn into something like Communist Cuba if it gained its independence (which is something I used to hear a lot growing up as a kid).

Another thing to consider is that every time we get these large protests a lot of the more ardent pro-independence people tend to attend those events, while most of the normal everyday people that don't really care that much about politics just stay at home. So if you talk to the people at the protests you're gonna get a lot of skewed perspectives that don't necessarily match what the average person in the island thinks or wants, because most of the minority pro-independence crowd are gonna be at those events (however, people who attend the protests also tend to be better educated about the issues than the non-political folk, so they might still bring up valid points). But most average people just wanna get through their everyday lives without disruptions and none of them wanna give up their US citizenship.

Ironically, I haven’t been following the situation in the island as closely as I’ve been following US politics or the pandemic, but the situation has been pretty much a bumpy ride since the hurricane, followed by the earthquake (and aftershocks that caused further damage), and now with the pandemic things have pretty much gone to hell, and I have no clue if/when we will ever recover. We had like three different governors in one single term, since the one that was on during the hurricane had to resign due to scandals (mostly about spicy comments made in some chat logs that surfaced, rather than due to his rampant mismanagement of the crisis after the hurricane), the one that followed was annulled due to scandals related to the first one (don’t think he was even allowed to officially become active governor), and the third managed to complete her term, but was unable to secure the nomination to run for governor again. Then the second one of these three governors (Pedro Pierluisi, who has been the target of numerous conflict of interest and corruption allegations) somehow managed to become governor again during the last election, which is a testament to how ineffective and corrupt our government and the two dominant parties are.

However, the last election saw a resurgence of third party candidates, with three of them getting a significant portion of the votes—far greater than at any other time in the island’s history—which is an indicator that the island has been losing faith in the two parties that have been dominant throughout its history as the “Free Associated State”. The one who got the most votes was Alexandra Lúgaro, who got 14.21% and I voted for in 2016, but refrained from voting for this time around, cuz she buys into Intersectionality and had been pushing to get LGBT courses into schools. So I basically sat this one out and stayed at home following the US elections, but with some reservations, since I considered her otherwise to be the best candidate. But I just couldn’t bring myself to vote to bring wokeness into the island in the current political climate. Plus my vote wouldn’t have been enough to make her win anyways, but she current has the most votes of any independent/third party candidate in the island’s history.

Greetings!

Very interesting, Visionstorm! I hope the island recovers swiftly and enjoys new prosperity.

As an aside, though, I get the impression from your commentary that the island's political environment is perhaps hopelessly corrupt? It isn't much different than what goes on in the mainland, then, heh? ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: consolcwby on January 12, 2021, 06:07:27 PM
As all of you probably know, I've come back, kinda, sort of, in a way.

Reading through this thread.. I love love love a good old-fashioned flame war. I would never ever think of adding any gasoline to it!
But, ETHANOL IS OKAY, amirite?

So, I'll place this here: https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/483344-why-trump-has-already-secured-a-second-term-no-matter-who-his-opponent-is

Now, all of you: COME OUT OF YOUR CORNERS, AND FIGHT! lol  ;D
That link is old, isn't it? Did it fool anyone?  ??? I guess not!
So, this will do it:
https://twitter.com/joshdcaplan/status/1349087546693853184
https://twitter.com/rising_serpent/status/1349047960894656513

AND THE AWARD FOR BIGGEST HIPPOCRITE ON THE INTERWEBS GOES TO.... TWATTER! YAY! No one here can top this:
https://twitter.com/Policy/status/1349059275461685250
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 12, 2021, 06:10:06 PM
I thought jhkim was bad, but I wouldn't wipe my ass with the degree someone felt sorry enough to give you.

TBH, I think jhkim is the least bad out of everybody on the other side of this discussion. I may not always agree with him and he may come off as obtuse a lot of the time, but at least he makes a semblance of an effort of arguing in good faith. Everyone else is just a clapback imbecile with no real counterarguments and absolutely nothing of value to add--just broad yet empty and snide declarations and dismissals--or brazenly biased and partisan to the point you might as well ignore their wall of text and convoluted rationalizations, and save yourself the trouble.

What I most despise him for is

(A) blind obedience to scientists as if they cannot have a political agenda. (at least as long as he supports their results)

(B) he has constantly defended a position of 'Discrimination is ok, as long as the target is not a "legally, protected class"'

Then the second one of these three governors (Pedro Pierluisi, who has been the target of numerous conflict of interest and corruption allegations) somehow managed to become governor again during the last election, which is a testament to how ineffective and corrupt our government and the two dominant parties are.

Gee, that sounds kind of familiar...

You have my sympathies.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 12, 2021, 06:27:42 PM
Remember that time when people decided that they wanted everyone else to be consistent with their beliefs?

Oh wait that was Tuesday

So who here are you claiming has been inconsistent in their beliefs? I'll nominate SHARK, with his posts:

Quote from: SHARK
*Thousands* of American patriots all singing the National Anthem as more patriots storm the Capital building!

Huge chants of "OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE!"

More chanting, "USA! USA! USA!"

Hundreds of Americans pouring inside the doors! Thousands everywhere, surrounding everything!

Fucking LOCK AND LOAD!!! Amazing!
(ref) (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1159401/#msg1159401)

The violence in DC on Jan 06 was unfortunate, and even tragic. After months of BLM and ANTIFA rioting across the country--often supported by the MSM and Marxist politicians--I don't think having some engage in such violence, considering the tensions involved, as being surprising. Even more so, when there is evidence that much of it was provoked by ANTIFA members that were also present, in an effort to heighten and provoke such tensions in a purposeful and coordinated manner.
(ref) (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/live-coverage-of-rally-for-president-trump-in-dc!-01062021/msg1160254/#msg1160254)


Outside this forum, sure - there are plenty of people all over the political spectrum who are inconsistent in their beliefs. Citing individual people in the wider world who are inconsistent will be an awfully long list.

Greetings!

Yeah, damn right I was excited, and enthusiastic, Jhkim. It was amazing to see, especially live like that, with so many people there.

I also note that of the people I saw--no one was armed, and there wasn't any real violence going on aside from *some* wrestling and pushing with police officers, in some areas. Other areas, the police weren't doing anything. None the less, I did not want anyone to be assaulted, or killed, whether patriots, police, or whoever. Nothing inconsistent at all.

As AOC declared, "Protests are uncomfortable. People should be forced to be uncomfortable." *paraphrasing* So, again, was it appropriate for people to march, and wave flags, and scream, and make the fat, elitist and corrupt politicians listen to angry citizens, even if they were made *uncomfortable*? Well, fuck yeah. Why not? AOC and many other political and media leaders that cock-sucking Leftists love to suck on certainly think that is all fine and good.

I make no apologies, so stop trying to insist that I'm "inconsistent". I remember watching the whole cities fucking *BURN*, people being beaten and killed, stores being destroyed and looted, with thousands of fucking BLM and ANTIFA people marching and screaming, and calling for people to be killed--and the protest at the Capitol building was nothing close to any of that, which went on in city after fucking city, and like in Portland, Oregon, every fucking night--while the politicians did nothing. In fact, political leaders like Mayor Wheeler, the Portland AG, specifically refused to prosecute anyone, for anything. Meanwhile numerous other political and media leaders praised the BLM and ANTIFA as good and noble, and justified in making their voices heard, and expressing their rage.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Oh, bullshit, you fucking liar. You always hype up pro-Trump or anti-Left violence with whatever shitty ass rationalizations your Trump-addled mind can come up with. I wonder if you will come to the FBI's attention if your words of encouragement for the violence are found on someone's electronic trail. They are looking.

Greetings!

Choke on it, wormy little bitch. It's always fun to see you squirm and clutch your pearls like the cuck you are.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
I'm not one of those that's voiced support for violent activities intended to coerce the government of our nation. Unlike yourself, the despicable traitor in our midst that tries to claim he's a bigger patriot than everyone else. You're a sad, silly little man...and maybe a criminal too. I can't wait to see!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 12, 2021, 06:28:15 PM
...and in other news...


Quote
    Ahead of the Ugandan election, we're hearing reports that Internet service providers are being ordered to block social media and messaging apps.

    We strongly condemn internet shutdowns – they are hugely harmful, violate basic human rights and the principles of the #OpenInternet.

    — Twitter Public Policy (@Policy) January 12, 2021

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Access to information and freedom of expression, including the public conversation on Twitter, is never more important than during democratic processes, particularly elections.#UgandaDecides2021 #KeepItOn https://t.co/Q2SJfsFUiD

    — Twitter Public Policy (@Policy) January 12, 2021


 ???  :o
Man, I am so confused...

 ;)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 12, 2021, 06:34:54 PM
...and in other news...


Quote
    Ahead of the Ugandan election, we're hearing reports that Internet service providers are being ordered to block social media and messaging apps.

    We strongly condemn internet shutdowns – they are hugely harmful, violate basic human rights and the principles of the #OpenInternet.

    — Twitter Public Policy (@Policy) January 12, 2021

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Access to information and freedom of expression, including the public conversation on Twitter, is never more important than during democratic processes, particularly elections.#UgandaDecides2021 #KeepItOn https://t.co/Q2SJfsFUiD

    — Twitter Public Policy (@Policy) January 12, 2021


 ???  :o
Man, I am so confused...

 ;)
I think what they are going with is that it is one thing to block individual users (even if that user is POTUS) that violate their terms of service, but quite another to block out entire areas indiscriminately.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: consolcwby on January 12, 2021, 06:45:31 PM
...and in other news...


Quote
    Ahead of the Ugandan election, we're hearing reports that Internet service providers are being ordered to block social media and messaging apps.

    We strongly condemn internet shutdowns – they are hugely harmful, violate basic human rights and the principles of the #OpenInternet.

    — Twitter Public Policy (@Policy) January 12, 2021

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Access to information and freedom of expression, including the public conversation on Twitter, is never more important than during democratic processes, particularly elections.#UgandaDecides2021 #KeepItOn https://t.co/Q2SJfsFUiD

    — Twitter Public Policy (@Policy) January 12, 2021


 ???  :o
Man, I am so confused...

 ;)
I think what they are going with is that it is one thing to block individual users (even if that user is POTUS) that violate their terms of service, but quite another to block out entire areas indiscriminately.
BWA-HAHAHAHAHAHA!
Your DESPAIR is so full of clown today, it is becoming it's own CREATURE!  ;D
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 12, 2021, 06:54:50 PM
Yeah, damn right I was excited, and enthusiastic, Jhkim. It was amazing to see, especially live like that, with so many people there.

I also note that of the people I saw--no one was armed, and there wasn't any real violence going on aside from *some* wrestling and pushing with police officers, in some areas. Other areas, the police weren't doing anything. None the less, I did not want anyone to be assaulted, or killed, whether patriots, police, or whoever. Nothing inconsistent at all.

As AOC declared, "Protests are uncomfortable. People should be forced to be uncomfortable." *paraphrasing* So, again, was it appropriate for people to march, and wave flags, and scream, and make the fat, elitist and corrupt politicians listen to angry citizens, even if they were made *uncomfortable*? Well, fuck yeah. Why not?

Do you approve of the smashing in windows, pushing past police, and breaking down doors that forced Congress members to evacuate? Is that just making them uncomfortable, or is it part of the violence that you disapprove of?

When I see liberal-leaning events where they shove police, smash in windows, and loot offices - I never think "Hell yeah". I think "Fuck, this is going wrong."
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 12, 2021, 06:56:54 PM
Greetings!

Very interesting, Visionstorm! I hope the island recovers swiftly and enjoys new prosperity.

As an aside, though, I get the impression from your commentary that the island's political environment is perhaps hopelessly corrupt? It isn't much different than what goes on in the mainland, then, heh? ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Pretty much. The two dominant parties have been hopelessly corrupt for a long time, often stealing and mismanaging public funds, but people kept voting them in out of habit, much the same way everyone in the mainland just votes Democrat or Republican. Then the hurricane hit, completely devastating most of the island's poorly maintained infrastructure, as a result of years of mismanagement from past administrations, and all hell broke lose. Most of the lives that were lost (which some people tried to blame on Trump, desperately trying to turn it into his Katrina) were the result of rescue workers not been able to even reach parts of the island cuz the roads and bridges were destroyed or covered in fallen trees and landslides. And with communications down, with no phone lines and almost all cellphone towers wiped out, nobody could get a hold anyone from those municipalities to ascertain what the situation was there, how to reach them or what they could do to help. Hopefully we'll get better leadership now that people are waking up to our major political parties corruption and ineffectiveness, and are starting to look into other alternatives.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: consolcwby on January 12, 2021, 07:00:50 PM
Yeah, damn right I was excited, and enthusiastic, Jhkim. It was amazing to see, especially live like that, with so many people there.

I also note that of the people I saw--no one was armed, and there wasn't any real violence going on aside from *some* wrestling and pushing with police officers, in some areas. Other areas, the police weren't doing anything. None the less, I did not want anyone to be assaulted, or killed, whether patriots, police, or whoever. Nothing inconsistent at all.

As AOC declared, "Protests are uncomfortable. People should be forced to be uncomfortable." *paraphrasing* So, again, was it appropriate for people to march, and wave flags, and scream, and make the fat, elitist and corrupt politicians listen to angry citizens, even if they were made *uncomfortable*? Well, fuck yeah. Why not?

Do you approve of the smashing in windows, pushing past police, and breaking down doors that forced Congress members to evacuate? Is that just making them uncomfortable, or is it part of the violence that you disapprove of?

When I see liberal-leaning events where they shove police, smash in windows, and loot offices - I never think "Hell yeah". I think "Fuck, this is going wrong."
I think it's wrong, but you didn't ask me so you don't care.
HOWEVER: It was an opportunity for OC DANK MEMES. Gotta appreciate that.
ON THE OTHER-HAND: You don't like memes. YOU have a PhD. Therefore, everyone else is wrong.
Just so you know, I don't care. And if SHARK is smart, he will IGNORE YOUR POST as the BAIT IT IS.
But, you don't care about what I think...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 12, 2021, 07:04:43 PM
Greetings!

Will Johnson hosts Unite America First. Here he discusses Leftist political hypocrisy, rioting, and more.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 12, 2021, 07:08:27 PM
Greetings!

Very interesting, Visionstorm! I hope the island recovers swiftly and enjoys new prosperity.

As an aside, though, I get the impression from your commentary that the island's political environment is perhaps hopelessly corrupt? It isn't much different than what goes on in the mainland, then, heh? ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Pretty much. The two dominant parties have been hopelessly corrupt for a long time, often stealing and mismanaging public funds, but people kept voting them in out of habit, much the same way everyone in the mainland just votes Democrat or Republican. Then the hurricane hit, completely devastating most of the island's poorly maintained infrastructure, as a result of years of mismanagement from past administrations, and all hell broke lose. Most of the lives that were lost (which some people tried to blame on Trump, desperately trying to turn it into his Katrina) were the result of rescue workers not been able to even reach parts of the island cuz the roads and bridges were destroyed or covered in fallen trees and landslides. And with communications down, with no phone lines and almost all cellphone towers wiped out, nobody could get a hold anyone from those municipalities to ascertain what the situation was there, how to reach them or what they could do to help. Hopefully we'll get better leadership now that people are waking up to our major political parties corruption and ineffectiveness, and are starting to look into other alternatives.

Greetings!

Geesus, my friend! You sound very well aquainted with mind-boggling corruption and inefficiency. Even government and bureaucratic *incompetence* So frustrating!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: deadDMwalking on January 12, 2021, 07:11:00 PM
(B) he has constantly defended a position of 'Discrimination is ok, as long as the target is not a "legally, protected class"'

You know, it's funny, but that's almost the literal definition used by insurance companies. 

Charge you more because teen men are reckless drivers compared to teen females - they do it every day.  Charge you more because you're younger or VERY OLD?  As long as they're not refusing to hire you, that type of discrimination is okay. 

And of course, many clubs and associations have membership rules (like being male) that are allowed. 

Where discrimination becomes a problem is when the objective is specifically to be exclusionary. 

Setting that aside, Five Thirty Eight (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-much-danger-is-american-democracy-in/) had a chat about how much danger our Democracy was in.  There is a chart titled 'V-Dem's 'illiberalism index' shows Republican party has retreated from upholding democratic norms'. 

Bearing in mind that this is data driven and you can dissect the data (available from their site (https://www.v-dem.net/en/)) I think this jives with my lived experience.  On this site there are a lot of people who claim that Democrats are the threat to Democracy, but they're the ones that have been using electoral majorities to affect change.  Many of the institutional advantages favor Republicans (ie, Rural states have more per capita representation in the Senate than urban States -  Wyoming has the same influence as California despite having 1/70th the population), so while you could claim that Democracy has been 'unfair', Republicans seem surprisingly willing to abandon Democracy as the will of the majority seems about to overcome the institutionalized barriers. 

We don't HAVE to have an all or nothing election system.  We could have proportional representation.  There's certainly an argument for that being 'more fair', but that's not something either party has really committed to. 

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 12, 2021, 07:12:47 PM
Do you approve of the smashing in windows, pushing past police, and breaking down doors that forced Congress members to evacuate? Is that just making them uncomfortable, or is it part of the violence that you disapprove of?

When I see liberal-leaning events where they shove police, smash in windows, and loot offices - I never think "Hell yeah". I think "Fuck, this is going wrong."
I think it's wrong, but you didn't ask me so you don't care.
HOWEVER: It was an opportunity for OC DANK MEMES. Gotta appreciate that.
ON THE OTHER-HAND: You don't like memes. YOU have a PhD. Therefore, everyone else is wrong.
Just so you know, I don't care. And if SHARK is smart, he will IGNORE YOUR POST as the BAIT IT IS.
But, you don't care about what I think...

Aw, consolcwby! I'm sorry. I care about *all* the little animals.  ::) 

But seriously, I do appreciate that you agree the breaking in was wrong.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 12, 2021, 07:13:34 PM
...and in other news...


Quote
    Ahead of the Ugandan election, we're hearing reports that Internet service providers are being ordered to block social media and messaging apps.

    We strongly condemn internet shutdowns – they are hugely harmful, violate basic human rights and the principles of the #OpenInternet.

    — Twitter Public Policy (@Policy) January 12, 2021

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Access to information and freedom of expression, including the public conversation on Twitter, is never more important than during democratic processes, particularly elections.#UgandaDecides2021 #KeepItOn https://t.co/Q2SJfsFUiD

    — Twitter Public Policy (@Policy) January 12, 2021


 ???  :o
Man, I am so confused...

 ;)

Greetings!

OMG! Damn, Moonsweeper! The monstrous hypocrisy of the fucking Liberals is stupefying. Poor Twitter! ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 12, 2021, 07:25:22 PM
Yeah, damn right I was excited, and enthusiastic, Jhkim. It was amazing to see, especially live like that, with so many people there.

I also note that of the people I saw--no one was armed, and there wasn't any real violence going on aside from *some* wrestling and pushing with police officers, in some areas. Other areas, the police weren't doing anything. None the less, I did not want anyone to be assaulted, or killed, whether patriots, police, or whoever. Nothing inconsistent at all.

As AOC declared, "Protests are uncomfortable. People should be forced to be uncomfortable." *paraphrasing* So, again, was it appropriate for people to march, and wave flags, and scream, and make the fat, elitist and corrupt politicians listen to angry citizens, even if they were made *uncomfortable*? Well, fuck yeah. Why not?

Do you approve of the smashing in windows, pushing past police, and breaking down doors that forced Congress members to evacuate? Is that just making them uncomfortable, or is it part of the violence that you disapprove of?

When I see liberal-leaning events where they shove police, smash in windows, and loot offices - I never think "Hell yeah". I think "Fuck, this is going wrong."
I think it's wrong, but you didn't ask me so you don't care.
HOWEVER: It was an opportunity for OC DANK MEMES. Gotta appreciate that.
ON THE OTHER-HAND: You don't like memes. YOU have a PhD. Therefore, everyone else is wrong.
Just so you know, I don't care. And if SHARK is smart, he will IGNORE YOUR POST as the BAIT IT IS.
But, you don't care about what I think...

Greetings!

Welcome back, my friend! Good to see you! Yeah, the flame wars can be fun, though I get bored after awhile.

I don't think breaking into the Capital building was wise, and rioting isn't generally wise or beneficial, either. Even more so when such is unorganized, and directionless. The capital riot wasn't going to accomplish anything meaningful. Context and nuance are important concepts, but are generally entirely lost on moron slugs that have room-temperature IQ's.

However, perhaps the entire riot was merely a pretext so as to facilitate several Special Forces members getting inside and taking possession of Pelosi's laptop...with who knows what incriminating information and secrets within? Such information could no doubt be very valuable to some people. ;)

I believe in being a law-abiding citizen. Chaos and savagery is no doubt coming to America, and it is the corrupt, Marxist Democrats that are responsible. They love globalism, and tyranny, and mindless group-think. They love seeing themselves as the creme elite, ruling over the impoverished masses. They love totalitarianism, gulags, censorship, and oppression. That is exactly what all of these scum are doing in our country right now. Opening that fucking door. Well, they shouldn't be surprised when the unwashed masses rise up and bite back.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK


Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 12, 2021, 07:37:42 PM
(B) he has constantly defended a position of 'Discrimination is ok, as long as the target is not a "legally, protected class"'

You know, it's funny, but that's almost the literal definition used by insurance companies. 

Charge you more because teen men are reckless drivers compared to teen females - they do it every day.  Charge you more because you're younger or VERY OLD?  As long as they're not refusing to hire you, that type of discrimination is okay. 

And of course, many clubs and associations have membership rules (like being male) that are allowed. 

Where discrimination becomes a problem is when the objective is specifically to be exclusionary. 

Setting that aside, Five Thirty Eight (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-much-danger-is-american-democracy-in/) had a chat about how much danger our Democracy was in.  There is a chart titled 'V-Dem's 'illiberalism index' shows Republican party has retreated from upholding democratic norms'. 

Bearing in mind that this is data driven and you can dissect the data (available from their site (https://www.v-dem.net/en/)) I think this jives with my lived experience.  On this site there are a lot of people who claim that Democrats are the threat to Democracy, but they're the ones that have been using electoral majorities to affect change.  Many of the institutional advantages favor Republicans (ie, Rural states have more per capita representation in the Senate than urban States -  Wyoming has the same influence as California despite having 1/70th the population), so while you could claim that Democracy has been 'unfair', Republicans seem surprisingly willing to abandon Democracy as the will of the majority seems about to overcome the institutionalized barriers. 

We don't HAVE to have an all or nothing election system.  We could have proportional representation.  There's certainly an argument for that being 'more fair', but that's not something either party has really committed to.

Well I really don't like insurance companies, either...so whatever.



You do realize the House of Representatives is the 'proportional representation' part of the legislature and the Senate is the 'all individual states have equal representation' portion, right?

If the founding setup favors the 'Republicans' over the 'Democrats' in some way, that kind of shoots your whole 'Republicans' are actually the threat narrative doesn't it?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 12, 2021, 07:47:37 PM
I'm not sure polls mean anything anymore.

Polls have proven to be bs but Trump has a really effective cult of personality going.  All revolutionary movements have a supreme leader.  I personally think his enemies will destroy him in the end and the movement will fizzle out.  I don’t think another person could muster the charisma to keep it going as strongly.

Polls have been reasonably accurate when Trump isn't on the ballot (e.g., 2018); on the ballot, he does seem to call forth supporters that polls cannot find in advance. The failings ended up more in the downballot races in the recent election, where Trump's extra turnout helped Republicans and Trump himself did not hurt them; although barely and by less than polled, Democrats took the Presidency and Senate and held the House. FiveThirtyEight's final presidential forecast was right for all but Florida (an actual polling failure with Hispanic voters), North Carolina and Maine's 2nd District, which varied from 31% to 43% likely to go for Trump.

But Trump's popularity is going down, as shown in the FiveThirtyEight.com polling averages (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/); And Rasmussen is biased to Republicans and not a very high quality pollster. Not sure that polls over multiple days around then would capture a significant trend yet; anyone could find a Trump video on Wednesday or Thursday that said what they wanted to hear: love the rioters and the election was stolen,  or Biden will take office and lawbreakers will pay.

EDIT: I should add that I'm suspicious of polling, just because who answers their telephone any more if they don't recognize the caller? I answered a lot of junk calls over the past year to get polled only a few times; I expect most people won't take the trouble.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: consolcwby on January 12, 2021, 08:12:03 PM
Yeah, damn right I was excited, and enthusiastic, Jhkim. It was amazing to see, especially live like that, with so many people there.

I also note that of the people I saw--no one was armed, and there wasn't any real violence going on aside from *some* wrestling and pushing with police officers, in some areas. Other areas, the police weren't doing anything. None the less, I did not want anyone to be assaulted, or killed, whether patriots, police, or whoever. Nothing inconsistent at all.

As AOC declared, "Protests are uncomfortable. People should be forced to be uncomfortable." *paraphrasing* So, again, was it appropriate for people to march, and wave flags, and scream, and make the fat, elitist and corrupt politicians listen to angry citizens, even if they were made *uncomfortable*? Well, fuck yeah. Why not?

Do you approve of the smashing in windows, pushing past police, and breaking down doors that forced Congress members to evacuate? Is that just making them uncomfortable, or is it part of the violence that you disapprove of?

When I see liberal-leaning events where they shove police, smash in windows, and loot offices - I never think "Hell yeah". I think "Fuck, this is going wrong."
I think it's wrong, but you didn't ask me so you don't care.
HOWEVER: It was an opportunity for OC DANK MEMES. Gotta appreciate that.
ON THE OTHER-HAND: You don't like memes. YOU have a PhD. Therefore, everyone else is wrong.
Just so you know, I don't care. And if SHARK is smart, he will IGNORE YOUR POST as the BAIT IT IS.
But, you don't care about what I think...

Greetings!

Welcome back, my friend! Good to see you! Yeah, the flame wars can be fun, though I get bored after awhile.

I don't think breaking into the Capital building was wise, and rioting isn't generally wise or beneficial, either. Even more so when such is unorganized, and directionless. The capital riot wasn't going to accomplish anything meaningful. Context and nuance are important concepts, but are generally entirely lost on moron slugs that have room-temperature IQ's.

However, perhaps the entire riot was merely a pretext so as to facilitate several Special Forces members getting inside and taking possession of Pelosi's laptop...with who knows what incriminating information and secrets within? Such information could no doubt be very valuable to some people. ;)
Yes. I would like to think that as well.  However, the opposite may also be true. The problem with the situation is thus: We don't REALLY know the who the why and the reason. By faith I agree with you. The black pill part of me though thinks the worst. Antifa/BLM or CCP has it for blackmail purposes. I would say the Squad, but I doubt they're actually that intelligent to pull something like that off. Amazingly, I want to find more answers but I'm not deep-diving in this particular aspect. Useful information is hard to come by nowadays, as you are well aware.

I believe in being a law-abiding citizen. Chaos and savagery is no doubt coming to America, and it is the corrupt, Marxist Democrats that are responsible. They love globalism, and tyranny, and mindless group-think. They love seeing themselves as the creme elite, ruling over the impoverished masses. They love totalitarianism, gulags, censorship, and oppression. That is exactly what all of these scum are doing in our country right now. Opening that fucking door. Well, they shouldn't be surprised when the unwashed masses rise up and bite back.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
I'll tell you the reason why I didn't want you to answer this part of Mr. Kim's question:
---------------
I understand, for the past decade ~ in particular the last few years ~ you have been arguing principles over emotion, and recently due to forced-confinement and mandatory restrictions, you have allowed your own emotions to cloud your judgement. This is the excuse of ANTIFA and BLM: The disenfranchisement and killing of innocent people MUST BE STOPPED even by ANY MEANS NECESSARY. That is why Mr. Kim asked, because no matter HOW you answer, you ARE WRONG. If you say the violence isn't justified he can point to your emotional in-the-moment response. If you say violence is justified he can point to your hypocrisy in calling out hypocrites. You can't win because YOU BECAME EMOTIONAL. And he can throw your OWN WORDS back in your face. This is meant as a means to vilify. discredit, and make an example out of you, using you as a way to demoralize those who trust ~ not only you ~ but also the military. He takes the high road, and thereby takes control of a narrative that he is helping MSM/SM to push. He is an academic, and therefore dangerous misinformation is believed by himself and his echo chambers. My advice?
Be more careful.
Honestly, I have no respect for him or the others of his ilk. I know the enemy's plan. I understand why the plan exists and I know the 'good intentions' behind the plan.
Unfortunately, the BASIS of the plan is full of shit.
Consider: Are you and I outing THEM? Or are they outing US?
My fate is already decided. Your's is not.
Just take more care!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Brad on January 12, 2021, 08:31:10 PM
Since the commentary thread is locked, just gonna say Tubesockarmy can suck a dick. I didn’t “cry to the mods”, jackass, I’m merely pointed out you’re an immense SJW fucktard.

Further, the level of hypocrisy exhibited by the usual suspects is incredible, but expected. MSM and loser politicians have brainwashed the leftists really good; I think even Stalin would be impressed. Anyone who cannot see what’s actually going on is in for a rude awakening fairly soon. If you trust a word anyone in Washington says your IQ is probably in the single digits. Trump did everyone a great service by exposing the swamp; if you say “yeah but MY guy isn’t like that!” I got some bad news for you...

Anyway, when I was a kid we made fun of politicians and lawyers as lying scumbags, sometime in the past ten years they were held to a level of esteem I’ve never seen, and now if you have a D after your name, might as well make a feast day to celebrate your sainthood. It’s incredible how retarded the leftists are, especially the “educated” ones., and even more incredible they’re so deluded they will ignore anything that doesn’t precisely line up with the narrative they’ve been fed. Democrats say the sun rises in the west? Well you’re a moron if you say it’s the east because cardinal directions were invented by a white male which means they’re oppressive. Wish that example was a joke, but I’ve read 1984, I know how this story ends.

In  closing, none of this has to do with gaming, but oddly enough it most certainly does. “They’re not gonna come for you’re books!” You sure your that?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on January 12, 2021, 08:36:30 PM

There's that, and there's this:

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/trump_approval_index_history

Trump's approval rating went up the day after the mostly peaceful acts of Nazi terrorist patriotism in the Capitol. Just a point, but it still went up, and his approval rating is as high as it's ever been.

I'm not sure polls mean anything anymore.

That's bullshit Pat. Not the poll you linked to, but your attempt to claim that a poll about what happened at the Capital is the same as how people feel about Trump. I didn't say anything about Trump. I said supporting the people who stormed the Capital puts you in the extreme minority, and your poll does not speak to that issue at all.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 12, 2021, 08:59:05 PM
Do you approve of the smashing in windows, pushing past police, and breaking down doors that forced Congress members to evacuate? Is that just making them uncomfortable, or is it part of the violence that you disapprove of?

When I see liberal-leaning events where they shove police, smash in windows, and loot offices - I never think "Hell yeah". I think "Fuck, this is going wrong."

I don't think breaking into the Capital building was wise, and rioting isn't generally wise or beneficial, either. Even more so when such is unorganized, and directionless. The capital riot wasn't going to accomplish anything meaningful. Context and nuance are important concepts, but are generally entirely lost on moron slugs that have room-temperature IQ's.

Thanks, SHARK. It's good to hear that, and I agree. Maybe you were emotionally cheering at the time - as consolcwby suggests - but it sounds like you now think it was wrong. Getting emotional and/or changing one's opinion isn't a crime. If someone gets emotional and says something, and then later on admits it and corrects themselves - that's being mature and wise, in my opinion.

Where I still may disagree is how you call it out for being unorganized and directionless. Is there some sort of organized and well-directed action that you would have approved of at the Capitol on January 6? What would that have been?

To my mind, a big non-violent demonstration outside the Capitol would have been both wiser and more ethical.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: consolcwby on January 12, 2021, 09:02:58 PM
HERE COMES THE DESPAIR:
========================
PBS Lawyer Is Now CANCELED:
https://twitter.com/MatthewKeysLive/status/1349059560946888705
https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/1349023335628288006

The Call For ROUND-UPS Begin Here:
https://twitter.com/paulsperry_/status/1349023204661219335

Senators on No-Fly Lists?
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/01/terrorist-terrorist-democrat-house-homeland-security-chair-wants-gop-senators-ted-cruz-josh-hawley-federal-no-fly-list-audio/
Homeland Security Committee Chair Rep. Bennie Thompson (D-MS) wants to place Republican Senators Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley on the federal “No Fly” list due to the “actions they participated in.”

Mr.Corney Should STFU!
https://www.rawstory.com/james-comey-2649906561/
Former FBI director James Comey described militant supporters of President Donald Trump as “terrorists” and called for charges against all of them for storming the U.S. Capitol.
“It’s important that every last person who entered that Capitol be found and charged,” Comey said. “They need to feel the force of the rule of law, they need to feel the American peoples’ will to make sure that we’re a country that doesn’t accept attacks on our democracy.”

CBS Reports TRUTH?!
https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1348793720846610432

Hmm...
https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1349022667085590530
Do people really believe this attack can happen against the President of the United States and nothing will happen?

(https://v1.nitrocdn.com/PtUefQrfncdsWOjilqcqdvGyQbUvpoWC/assets/static/optimized/rev-f43d399/us-west-2:e4b946ea-ffa3-47d3-8497-e187e1ad3b4d/4c2f02e35c116fc196edd51afd09923b.92CB7B3B-D192-4931-BA09-53D85E2E5358.jpeg)
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/01/behind-planned-armed-march-capitol-hill-deep-state-plot/
WARNING! There are several armed protests at state capitols across the country before inaugural ceremonies next week. For the record, these “armed protests” in the coming days ARE NOT sanctioned by the Trump Campaign. Notice there is no organizing group listed on the flyer.

CONSPIRACY THEORY CHAN:
(https://v1.nitrocdn.com/PtUefQrfncdsWOjilqcqdvGyQbUvpoWC/assets/static/optimized/rev-f43d399/system/media_attachments/files/061/753/215/small/49b0fe565bce2b01.jpeg)
check it out:
(https://v1.nitrocdn.com/PtUefQrfncdsWOjilqcqdvGyQbUvpoWC/assets/desktop/source/rev-f43d399/media/4712a921f8f27cbf8e5651ce3d906935.Erj6_FwXAAM5UZ-)https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-addressing-threat-securities-investments-finance-communist-chinese-military-companies/

My Take:
The patriots are now moving all pieces into position to move in on the Deep State. Election fraud, treason, sedition and crimes against humanity have now been completed.Why is Trump waiting to the last moment? He is going to play the Trump card. The Deep State is now panicking, Trump gave them multiple chances to tell the truth and to do the right thing and they didn’t. Now it will all be exposed to the public.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 12, 2021, 09:10:15 PM
So at least be honest and say outright that you think you have exclusive rights to being a violent moron.

It's also very rich in irony to say that given that the bread and butter of this board is pointing out how hypocritical the left is, lol.

Its like watching a narrative thrashing around trying desperately to latch on to something.

First it was sexist then homophobic, nazi, right winger, white supremacist, sure I am missing a few and now its trying out hypocrite.

Here is a goody:  Irony.  Mmm, love the taste of a good irony.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 12, 2021, 09:14:37 PM
I'm not one of those that's voiced support for violent activities intended to coerce the government of our nation. Unlike yourself, the despicable traitor in our midst that tries to claim he's a bigger patriot than everyone else. You're a sad, silly little man...and maybe a criminal too. I can't wait to see!

If you want to see Happydaze jump, just let him know about an unmasked traitor I mean citizen trying to go about their mundane life.

Then its all tasers and pepper spray.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 12, 2021, 09:16:32 PM
The math will sort itself out.

Personally I dont want to be doing things like flying in a Plane while we wait for the math to sort itself out.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: GameDaddy on January 12, 2021, 09:19:29 PM

However, perhaps the entire riot was merely a pretext so as to facilitate several Special Forces members getting inside and taking possession of Pelosi's laptop...with who knows what incriminating information and secrets within? Such information could no doubt be very valuable to some people. ;)

I believe in being a law-abiding citizen. Chaos and savagery is no doubt coming to America, and it is the corrupt, Marxist Democrats that are responsible. They love globalism, and tyranny, and mindless group-think. They love seeing themselves as the creme elite, ruling over the impoverished masses. They love totalitarianism, gulags, censorship, and oppression. That is exactly what all of these scum are doing in our country right now. Opening that fucking door. Well, they shouldn't be surprised when the unwashed masses rise up and bite back.

Oh, you didn't hear?... I was over reading Pravda the other day, and their was an article about the Moldavian that went something like this:

"She's not one of us, She's Moldavian, and we would never ever admit a Moldavian into the SVR or the FSB."   

They were talking about a Russian woman that was arrested in the Capitol on January 6th who spoke only Russian and required a translator in order for her arrest to be processed. My eyebrows instantly went up on that article of denial, cause I hadn't heard anything about it until Pravda confessed about the incident. Pretty sure if she made it to Pelosi's office, she got Pelosi's laptop and handed it off, and was probably cruisin' for more goodies when the lockdown went into effect, Lol!  Also that article wasn't in the English version of Pravda, it was on the Russki pages in Russian.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 12, 2021, 09:35:26 PM
I said supporting the people who stormed the Capital puts you in the extreme minority...
You did? Where? Because this is the first I've heard you say it. Probably because I never said anything on the topic.

You posted a link showing how many people disapprove of something that's been widely blamed on Trump. I posted a poll showing that Trump's approval rating went up, after the same event. They're not measuring the same thing, but they're very much related, and together they suggest a disconnect.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 12, 2021, 09:40:58 PM
First it was sexist then homophobic, nazi, right winger, white supremacist, sure I am missing a few and now its trying out hypocrite.

You actually said all that? Oh my. Good thing I haven't, lol.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 12, 2021, 09:49:23 PM
Your “lets be honest” is a cardboard caricature; all it does is identify the level of complexity you can handle.  Things aren’t quite that simple.  You, yourself, apply different standards to varying circumstances every day of your life.

I’m not the board, and find the fascination with left hypocrisy a waste of time.  I use it sparingly, to discredit, when I’m playing to a neutral audience who would be sympathetic to the argument.  But no, I don’t get worked up over leftists behaving in accordance with all of their beliefs. 

Most hypocrisy arguments, when made from a genuine disgust, are made by those who are unwilling to come to grips with what the target of their argument really is, as opposed to what they wish them to be.

So bruh, what's your actual position on BLM violence and the right wing violence? I mean, other than not wanting hypocrites to be called hypocrites unless you happen to agree with it?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 12, 2021, 09:50:52 PM
First it was sexist then homophobic, nazi, right winger, white supremacist, sure I am missing a few and now its trying out hypocrite.

You actually said all that? Oh my. Good thing I haven't, lol.

Most people would not believe you, but I do.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 12, 2021, 09:52:31 PM
You'd have to because you wouldn't find any instances of me saying that in the context of these riots/attacks, lol.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Daztur on January 12, 2021, 09:59:13 PM
My Take:
The patriots are now moving all pieces into position to move in on the Deep State. Election fraud, treason, sedition and crimes against humanity have now been completed.Why is Trump waiting to the last moment? He is going to play the Trump card. The Deep State is now panicking, Trump gave them multiple chances to tell the truth and to do the right thing and they didn’t. Now it will all be exposed to the public.

This is the bit that gets me.

I've heard a thousand complaints about election fraud over the years and the lazy Whataboutism that this thread is full of is pretty standard all around the world and all over the political spectrum. That's nothing new, just a bit dumber and more strident.

But this kind of messianic belief is really something new. The idea that Trump will magically fart rainbows and all the pieces will suddenly fall into place and there'll be the Day of the Rope and all the good little "patriots" will get to live happily ever after without actually having to do anything.

I never used to see that sort of thing even in the most batshit conspiracy circles but now it's all over the place. And it's just bizarre. That sort of elaborate masterplan that has been planned for years in advance and then sprung perfectly in the last second is something that has just never happened in all of history. Humans don't work that way.

And of course Trump will do sweet fuck-all during inauguration except whine a bit and then the goal posts will be moved again. Now it'll be a clever plan to give Biden a chance to be a fake president for a little while and then, then, when Biden has shown everyone his evil for all the world to see the trap will spring shut! Just wait a bit more! Trust the plan! And then that won't happen and the goal posts will get moved again... and again... and again...

Ye gods, this is dumber than the Jehovah's Witnesses. At least they wait a few years before making a new prediction about when the Promised Day is occuring.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 12, 2021, 10:04:23 PM
Why expect anything else from a QAnus dumbass who hangs out at 4chan?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 12, 2021, 10:13:51 PM
You'd have to because you wouldn't find any instances of me saying that in the context of these riots/attacks, lol.

I see, so in the context of these riots, between the hours of 2am to 4am, on the 4th of January 2020, you never said any instance of your typical moronic platitudes?

I mean I believe you.

You should probably tell us again though just to confirm the lack of the evidence of you saying these things.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Daztur on January 12, 2021, 10:17:35 PM
Why expect anything else from a QAnus dumbass who hangs out at 4chan?

Yeah but it's kind of interesting from a sociological perspective. My brother is a Truther and a bit of a tankie so I get treated to his rants about that or ancient Egyptians with freaking laser beams or whatever whenever he's drunk so most of this stupid crap is nothing new to me. Pretty much all of Q stuff is recycled crap from decades or even centuries ago with a new paint job. This stuff goes back to the dawn of American history: harpers.org/archive/1964/11/the-paranoid-style-in-american-politics and keeps on cropping up over and over again in different guises.

It's the Millenarianism that really sets Q apart (and which is especially stupid). The idea of a promised day when all will be set right with a specific date given. That's more fringe religion than normal politics. Even freaking Nazis didn't do stuff like that. They knew they'd have to take power in the normal way and then destroy their political opponents in the normal way and then set out to do that. No bizarre Promised Day at all that I can remember from my history reading.

I guess I should appreciate Q. He's inculcated a lot of fascists with the idea that they should just sit back and trust the plan. I'd rather have fascists sitting around with their thumbs up their butts waiting for a Storm that never comes than fascists going out murdering people. I just wonder how many times the Qtards can stand to have the the goalposts moved again and be given get ANOTHER day for when the Storm is really coming (for real this time) before it manages to pierce through their thick skulls that the whole thing is bullshit. They can't keep on stringing themselves along forever, can they? What happens then?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 12, 2021, 10:22:09 PM
You'd have to because you wouldn't find any instances of me saying that in the context of these riots/attacks, lol.

I see, so in the context of these riots, between the hours of 2am to 4am, on the 4th of January 2020, you never said any instance of your typical moronic platitudes?

I mean I believe you.

You should probably tell us again though just to confirm the lack of the evidence of you saying these things.

Sure. thank you, bruh.

I'd also believe you if you said you never used the n-word to describe BLM rioters in the last 30 minutes. I'll back you up if anyone doesn't believe you.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 12, 2021, 10:36:13 PM
I said supporting the people who stormed the Capital puts you in the extreme minority...
You did? Where? Because this is the first I've heard you say it. Probably because I never said anything on the topic.

::)  Pat, it's not always about Pat. Mistwell's "you" looks to be generic, as in "if you support the people who stormed the Capitol then you are in the extreme minority". He conveyed exactly that through the polling numbers about approval of that riot, but the "you" in that post might have been a generic person or specific to Spinachcat, to whom he was replying (and to whom he might still be referring, although it seems unlikely to me). Which you (Pat) presumably read since you (Pat) replied to that post. (The "your" in "your poll" which you omitted is you (Pat), by context, though.)

And he really didn't talk about Trump approval, only about people who don't trust the election results. Trump approval is going to be more stable, since supporters and detractors alike are going to look at Trump over a much longer period of time. Finding a more stable statistic to rebut the opinions of current events (last week's riot, the election of just over two months ago) looks like cherry picking.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 12, 2021, 10:43:41 PM
My Take:
The patriots are now moving all pieces into position to move in on the Deep State. Election fraud, treason, sedition and crimes against humanity have now been completed.Why is Trump waiting to the last moment? He is going to play the Trump card. The Deep State is now panicking, Trump gave them multiple chances to tell the truth and to do the right thing and they didn’t. Now it will all be exposed to the public.

This is the bit that gets me.

I've heard a thousand complaints about election fraud over the years and the lazy Whataboutism that this thread is full of is pretty standard all around the world and all over the political spectrum. That's nothing new, just a bit dumber and more strident.

But this kind of messianic belief is really something new.

(https://markhumphrys.com/Bitmaps/obama.36.jpg)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Daztur on January 12, 2021, 10:47:57 PM
My Take:
The patriots are now moving all pieces into position to move in on the Deep State. Election fraud, treason, sedition and crimes against humanity have now been completed.Why is Trump waiting to the last moment? He is going to play the Trump card. The Deep State is now panicking, Trump gave them multiple chances to tell the truth and to do the right thing and they didn’t. Now it will all be exposed to the public.

This is the bit that gets me.

I've heard a thousand complaints about election fraud over the years and the lazy Whataboutism that this thread is full of is pretty standard all around the world and all over the political spectrum. That's nothing new, just a bit dumber and more strident.

But this kind of messianic belief is really something new.

(https://markhumphrys.com/Bitmaps/obama.36.jpg)

"Obama is going to be an awesome president!"

and

"The Storm is coming! Trust the plan!"

aren't really the same at all. One is just sucking someone's dick because you think they're awesome. That's normal politics. Normal non-insane Trump supporters do the same thing. It's the idea that there's a specific super special plan that will happen on a specific day and that'll fix everything (i.e. all the Q stuff) that's just insane. Obama groupies never talked about how on a specific day he'd come and arrest all of his enemies and fix everything, just that he'd charm the pants off everyone and make everyone hold hands and sing kumbaya or some bullshit...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 12, 2021, 10:50:00 PM
You'd have to because you wouldn't find any instances of me saying that in the context of these riots/attacks, lol.

I see, so in the context of these riots, between the hours of 2am to 4am, on the 4th of January 2020, you never said any instance of your typical moronic platitudes?

I mean I believe you.

You should probably tell us again though just to confirm the lack of the evidence of you saying these things.

Sure. thank you, bruh.

I'd also believe you if you said you never used the n-word to describe BLM rioters in the last 30 minutes. I'll back you up if anyone doesn't believe you.

Nigger, I never go more then 30 seconds without saying nigger.

Or are we talking about a different N word.  Help a brother out nigger.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 12, 2021, 10:52:26 PM
well, I can certify you didn't say it in the 30 minutes before that!

I can't certify that you didn't any other racist language about other groups prior to that, though.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 12, 2021, 10:54:33 PM
Remember that time when people decided that they wanted everyone else to be consistent with their beliefs?

Oh wait that was Tuesday

So who here are you claiming has been inconsistent in their beliefs? I'll nominate SHARK, with his posts:

We could be worried about posters like SHARK with their inconsistent beliefs.  I mean sure that is certainly something that ranks in the things that we could be worried about.

Or we could be worried about Nancy Pelosi committing treason 2 seconds after accusing Trump of committing treason.

I dont know if she would survive 20 years at Guantanamo Bay, so she should probably make a plea deal.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 12, 2021, 10:55:27 PM
well, I can certify you didn't say it in the 30 minutes before that!

I can't certify that you didn't any other racist language about other groups prior to that, though.

All my language is racist.

Edit:  Well that is not true, some of it is sexist.  How can you be racist against boobs?  Its unpossible.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 12, 2021, 10:57:19 PM
"Obama is going to be an awesome president!"

and

"The Storm is coming! Trust the plan!"

aren't really the same at all. One is just sucking someone's dick because you think they're awesome. That's normal politics. Normal non-insane Trump supporters do the same thing. It's the idea that there's a specific super special plan that will happen on a specific day and that'll fix everything (i.e. all the Q stuff) that's just insane. Obama groupies never talked about how on a specific day he'd come and arrest all of his enemies and fix everything, just that he'd charm the pants off everyone and make everyone hold hands and sing kumbaya or some bullshit...

I think the precedent was set when so many pundits and media personalities and even the sitting president said Trump didn't have a chance in hell of winning the election, and leaned into the ridicule. And then the "unthinkable" happened, and Trump won, and his opposition lost their shit over it.
I imagine there's not a few people hoping Trump can pull another rabbit out of his hat.
Personally, I don't think so. Trump got past an entrenched establishment government that had gotten very complacent. They won't let that happen again, and even said as much. From here on in, we're going to get the candidates the government provides for us to choose from.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 12, 2021, 10:59:10 PM
well, I can certify you didn't say it in the 30 minutes before that!

I can't certify that you didn't any other racist language about other groups prior to that, though.

All my language is racist.

If you say so. I saw you use the n-word (https://imgur.com/MA9vwuO), but haven't seen you say 'beaner', 'spic' and other racist stuff in the last hour at least.  I"m inclined to believe you would though, since you admit so!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on January 12, 2021, 11:12:45 PM
Your “lets be honest” is a cardboard caricature; all it does is identify the level of complexity you can handle.  Things aren’t quite that simple.  You, yourself, apply different standards to varying circumstances every day of your life.

I’m not the board, and find the fascination with left hypocrisy a waste of time.  I use it sparingly, to discredit, when I’m playing to a neutral audience who would be sympathetic to the argument.  But no, I don’t get worked up over leftists behaving in accordance with all of their beliefs. 

Most hypocrisy arguments, when made from a genuine disgust, are made by those who are unwilling to come to grips with what the target of their argument really is, as opposed to what they wish them to be.

So bruh, what's your actual position on BLM violence and the right wing violence? I mean, other than not wanting hypocrites to be called hypocrites unless you happen to agree with it?

Both sides have a trolley problem.  And both are likely to pull the switch.  The only person dumber than either side, are those that want to believe neither side faces a trolley problem because they dislike either side making a choice.  And there's a 4th group that arranged for people to be put on the tracks because they like the idea of a world without trolleys. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 13, 2021, 04:54:46 AM
Greetings!

Conservative Resurgence program discusses the implications of the Left's censorship of Conservatives, and the spread of tyranny. Interesting facts and aspects of the DC protest as well.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK


Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 13, 2021, 06:25:45 AM
I said supporting the people who stormed the Capital puts you in the extreme minority...
You did? Where? Because this is the first I've heard you say it. Probably because I never said anything on the topic.

::)  Pat, it's not always about Pat. Mistwell's "you" looks to be generic, as in "if you support the people who stormed the Capitol then you are in the extreme minority". He conveyed exactly that through the polling numbers about approval of that riot, but the "you" in that post might have been a generic person or specific to Spinachcat, to whom he was replying (and to whom he might still be referring, although it seems unlikely to me). Which you (Pat) presumably read since you (Pat) replied to that post. (The "your" in "your poll" which you omitted is you (Pat), by context, though.)

And he really didn't talk about Trump approval, only about people who don't trust the election results. Trump approval is going to be more stable, since supporters and detractors alike are going to look at Trump over a much longer period of time. Finding a more stable statistic to rebut the opinions of current events (last week's riot, the election of just over two months ago) looks like cherry picking.
The you looks specific to me. Confusing posters in a fast-moving thread is pretty easy.

And rebutting what? I didn't refute anything, I provided another data point. That raises a meta issue: The increased partisanship in everything seems to have made tangential or related comments more difficult. The zeitgeist has changed enough that people tend to assume that any reply is an attempted refutation, rather than a comment that expands on something, or adds something new. Mine was kind of in the middle. It didn't directly address the riots, but it did address a related figure, and provided some of what I thought was interesting context. It's weird, if you have a major incident that's widely denounced, and it doesn't seem to affect the reputation of the person who was blamed for it. That could imply several things, and I don't think saying Trump's support is stable answers it entirely, because the disapproval of the happy fun head breaking revolutionary riot in the Capitol is too high -- that has to include a number of Trump supporters. Even if most look at it from a long-term perspective (which I doubt), a small swing would be expected.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 13, 2021, 07:51:37 AM
Your “lets be honest” is a cardboard caricature; all it does is identify the level of complexity you can handle.  Things aren’t quite that simple.  You, yourself, apply different standards to varying circumstances every day of your life.

I’m not the board, and find the fascination with left hypocrisy a waste of time.  I use it sparingly, to discredit, when I’m playing to a neutral audience who would be sympathetic to the argument.  But no, I don’t get worked up over leftists behaving in accordance with all of their beliefs. 

Most hypocrisy arguments, when made from a genuine disgust, are made by those who are unwilling to come to grips with what the target of their argument really is, as opposed to what they wish them to be.

So bruh, what's your actual position on BLM violence and the right wing violence? I mean, other than not wanting hypocrites to be called hypocrites unless you happen to agree with it?

Both sides have a trolley problem.  And both are likely to pull the switch.  The only person dumber than either side, are those that want to believe neither side faces a trolley problem because they dislike either side making a choice.  And there's a 4th group that arranged for people to be put on the tracks because they like the idea of a world without trolleys.

Go on. Define what their trolley problems are, and why that means you can't call a hypocrite a hypocrite (unless, of course, EOTB approves of it).
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 13, 2021, 08:34:43 AM
My Take:
The patriots are now moving all pieces into position to move in on the Deep State. Election fraud, treason, sedition and crimes against humanity have now been completed.Why is Trump waiting to the last moment? He is going to play the Trump card. The Deep State is now panicking, Trump gave them multiple chances to tell the truth and to do the right thing and they didn’t. Now it will all be exposed to the public.

This is the bit that gets me.

I've heard a thousand complaints about election fraud over the years and the lazy Whataboutism that this thread is full of is pretty standard all around the world and all over the political spectrum. That's nothing new, just a bit dumber and more strident.

But this kind of messianic belief is really something new.

(https://markhumphrys.com/Bitmaps/obama.36.jpg)

"Obama is going to be an awesome president!"

and

"The Storm is coming! Trust the plan!"

aren't really the same at all. One is just sucking someone's dick because you think they're awesome. That's normal politics. Normal non-insane Trump supporters do the same thing. It's the idea that there's a specific super special plan that will happen on a specific day and that'll fix everything (i.e. all the Q stuff) that's just insane. Obama groupies never talked about how on a specific day he'd come and arrest all of his enemies and fix everything, just that he'd charm the pants off everyone and make everyone hold hands and sing kumbaya or some bullshit...

Dude, there is exactly just ONE guy in these boards that spouts anything like "Trust the plan!" and many accuse him of being a LARPer. I'm not even sure that he's serious. For most Trump supporters it isn't even about the guy, but the movement that sprang around him. But people still suck Obama's dick despite being demonstrably a horrible President and war criminal second only to George Dubya Bush. They even sucked Bush's dick just cuz he's not Trump, and he's the worst war criminal in US history! THAT's the level of cult mentality that exists in the so-called "Left". It's just not centered around a person, but around their dogmatic ideology.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Abraxus on January 13, 2021, 08:36:57 AM
At this point neither the Left or Right is going to come looking positive as an ideological movement imo. Especially the Left as for years Leftist have been complaining about the behavior of the right and claiming to be better. Yet when it comes down to same shit different goals. To be clear the Left has lost all the moral high ground it had. As long as violence and rioting are done for the approved and carefully constructed personal narrative it's all well and good. Burn Loot and Murder and Thugtifa can harass, attack and even kill and burn down property because the Left approves of it. None of the Leftists here or elsewhere really said anything negative about the actions of both because then it's the old saying one person terrorist is another man freedom fighter.

When the Right does it then suddenly it's not ok because it goes against the narrative and more importantly not from an approved faction like the above. Then when you get called out on your hypocrisy pull shit fits as you all sure as hell don't like it when others do. Neither the Right has made a good showing of itself except I don't expect them to be better. I used to think the Left was but they are just the same with a different coat of paint and beliefs.

The fact that th so called Leftists Champions here did not react badly to Facebook banning people or even Parler shows that as long as their feelings are protected they don't care how much freedom they lose. It's all about priorities am I right mostly it's "reasons and feels". Once one goes down the rabbit hole of censorship where does it fucking stop. But hey who the fuck cares as long as one is protected from contrary opinions it's all that is important.

I may not agree with others say I rather they spew their hate out in the open. Why so they can be monitored and kept on eye. All the Censorship is doing is just making the more radical and dangerous elements go under ground both actually and figuratively making it harder for law enforcement to track them. In the end though many perhaps too many on the Left have show themselves to be nothing more than armchair terrorists and rioters. Their is friends I used to trust with my life who while I remain friends and staunch leftist who close their eyes to the violence as long as it's for the "right" cause. No matter the violence because hey their approved factions get a free pass. Those that are not the approved faction get labelled "domestic terrorists " even when both engage in the same tactics.

In the end keep up the fake innocence and not understanding why your ideological opponents engage in the same tactics you approved of earlier. Blame it on the media because most of you will never admit to the truth.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 13, 2021, 08:50:29 AM
I don't agree with the censoring either. Sheit, not even Angela Merker agreed with it, though for different retarded reasons.

At the same time, I think that it's time for platforms to be responsible for the actual incitements to violence (far-left or far-right). They are pretty good at detecting and shutting down even fair-use of music or other media on their platforms, but they can't do shit about people who shout "FIRE" in a "crowded theater"?

And for the record, I've never defended antifa (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/unmask-antifa-bill/msg1048448/#msg1048448). I've always felt they should be prosecuted, and that also goes for the other side of the coin in the far right. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 13, 2021, 09:20:49 AM
At the same time, I think that it's time for platforms to be responsible for the actual incitements to violence (far-left or far-right). They are pretty good at detecting and shutting down even fair-use of music or other media on their platforms, but they can't do shit about people who shout "FIRE" in a "crowded theater"?

No, online platforms should NOT be responsible for anything anyone posts in their site, and they are NOT good at detecting and shutting down copyrighted material precisely because they consistently shut down fair-use of music and other media. It is not the role of tech companies (or of self-entitled users within their platforms going after people they personally don't like) to make legal determinations about ANYTHING. They're not lawyers, they're not legal scholars or judges or law enforcement and have NO role in the government or legal procedures. These are NOT functions that fall within the purview of fucking monopolistic tech giants. It is not their job and they are not properly equipped to determine whether or not a supposed "tHrEaT oF vIolEnCe" or any other questionable post is legally actionable material. That is the job of the FBI, or equivalent agencies when it comes to users outside of the US. It's supposed to be THEM who make that determination, not our self-appointed tech overlords. That is why section 230 exists, and their insistence on stepping beyond their bounds is precisely why we're on this mess.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 13, 2021, 09:27:17 AM
I had commented earlier on how John Earle Sullivan, last seen shilling and supporting a BLM-Antifa riot in Provo, Utah, seemed just a BIT out of place in DC on 1/6.

Now there's another. Remember the guy with the funky horned headdress?

https://thenationalpulse.com/exclusive/capitol-antagonist-climate-change/

Yeah, I'm starting to get a distinct feeling of 'agent provocateur' here. I could be wrong, but, y'know, having these guys in the mix is a lot like Mr. Rogers as frontman for GWAR. Doesn't quite fit.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 13, 2021, 09:36:32 AM
At the same time, I think that it's time for platforms to be responsible for the actual incitements to violence (far-left or far-right). They are pretty good at detecting and shutting down even fair-use of music or other media on their platforms, but they can't do shit about people who shout "FIRE" in a "crowded theater"?

No, online platforms should NOT be responsible for anything anyone posts in their site, and they are NOT good at detecting and shutting down copyrighted material precisely because they consistently shut down fair-use of music and other media. It is not the role of tech companies (or of self-entitled users within their platforms going after people they personally don't like) to make legal determinations about ANYTHING. They're not lawyers, they're not legal scholars or judges or law enforcement and have NO role in the government or legal procedures. These are NOT functions that fall within the purview of fucking monopolistic tech giants. It is not their job and they are not properly equipped to determine whether or not a supposed "tHrEaT oF vIolEnCe" or any other questionable post is legally actionable material. That is the job of the FBI, or equivalent agencies when it comes to users outside of the US. It's supposed to be THEM who make that determination, not our self-appointed tech overlords. That is why section 230 exists, and their insistence on stepping beyond their bounds is precisely why we're on this mess.

How should they not be responsible for monitoring what goes on their platforms? Unless you are saying that law enforcement should have people sitting at their desk sifting through YouTube crap.


And you're completely wrong. Their AI is excellent at auto-flagging even melodies played on a guitar that match copyrighted material. They could do the same with people inciting violence.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 13, 2021, 09:44:50 AM
At the same time, I think that it's time for platforms to be responsible for the actual incitements to violence (far-left or far-right). They are pretty good at detecting and shutting down even fair-use of music or other media on their platforms, but they can't do shit about people who shout "FIRE" in a "crowded theater"?

No, online platforms should NOT be responsible for anything anyone posts in their site, and they are NOT good at detecting and shutting down copyrighted material precisely because they consistently shut down fair-use of music and other media. It is not the role of tech companies (or of self-entitled users within their platforms going after people they personally don't like) to make legal determinations about ANYTHING. They're not lawyers, they're not legal scholars or judges or law enforcement and have NO role in the government or legal procedures. These are NOT functions that fall within the purview of fucking monopolistic tech giants. It is not their job and they are not properly equipped to determine whether or not a supposed "tHrEaT oF vIolEnCe" or any other questionable post is legally actionable material. That is the job of the FBI, or equivalent agencies when it comes to users outside of the US. It's supposed to be THEM who make that determination, not our self-appointed tech overlords. That is why section 230 exists, and their insistence on stepping beyond their bounds is precisely why we're on this mess.

How should they not be responsible for monitoring what goes on their platforms? Unless you are saying that law enforcement should have people sitting at their desk sifting through YouTube crap.


And you're completely wrong. Their AI is excellent at auto-flagging even melodies played on a guitar that match copyrighted material. They could do the same with people inciting violence.

If they see something that they BELIEVE might be legally actionable they're supposed to report it to law enforcement and let THEM make the determination. If "concerned" citizens participating within those platforms see something questionable and want to rat out their political adversaries they could do the same. It's not rocket science.

And you're completely wrong. Their AI is excellent at auto-flagging even melodies played on a guitar that match copyrighted material. They could do the same with people inciting violence.

I already explained why algorithmically removing content doesn't work, you fucking retard.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 13, 2021, 09:46:01 AM
I had commented earlier on how John Earle Sullivan, last seen shilling and supporting a BLM-Antifa riot in Provo, Utah, seemed just a BIT out of place in DC on 1/6.

Now there's another. Remember the guy with the funky horned headdress?

https://thenationalpulse.com/exclusive/capitol-antagonist-climate-change/

Yeah, I'm starting to get a distinct feeling of 'agent provocateur' here. I could be wrong, but, y'know, having these guys in the mix is a lot like Mr. Rogers as frontman for GWAR. Doesn't quite fit.

How do we know that's his sign and that he's not there counter protesting? He's done that at other times:

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/people/jake-angeli-q-shaman

I am not certain either way. Just want more evidence than a contextless photograph.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 13, 2021, 09:50:47 AM
At the same time, I think that it's time for platforms to be responsible for the actual incitements to violence (far-left or far-right). They are pretty good at detecting and shutting down even fair-use of music or other media on their platforms, but they can't do shit about people who shout "FIRE" in a "crowded theater"?

No, online platforms should NOT be responsible for anything anyone posts in their site, and they are NOT good at detecting and shutting down copyrighted material precisely because they consistently shut down fair-use of music and other media. It is not the role of tech companies (or of self-entitled users within their platforms going after people they personally don't like) to make legal determinations about ANYTHING. They're not lawyers, they're not legal scholars or judges or law enforcement and have NO role in the government or legal procedures. These are NOT functions that fall within the purview of fucking monopolistic tech giants. It is not their job and they are not properly equipped to determine whether or not a supposed "tHrEaT oF vIolEnCe" or any other questionable post is legally actionable material. That is the job of the FBI, or equivalent agencies when it comes to users outside of the US. It's supposed to be THEM who make that determination, not our self-appointed tech overlords. That is why section 230 exists, and their insistence on stepping beyond their bounds is precisely why we're on this mess.

How should they not be responsible for monitoring what goes on their platforms? Unless you are saying that law enforcement should have people sitting at their desk sifting through YouTube crap.


And you're completely wrong. Their AI is excellent at auto-flagging even melodies played on a guitar that match copyrighted material. They could do the same with people inciting violence.

If they see something that they BELIEVE might be legally actionable they're supposed to report it to law enforcement and let THEM make the determination. If "concerned" citizens participating within those platforms see something questionable and want to rat out their political adversaries they could do the same. It's not rocket science.

So you think that this should be handled by people sifting through thousands of Youtube videos, thousands of Facebook posts, etc?

And you're completely wrong. Their AI is excellent at auto-flagging even melodies played on a guitar that match copyrighted material. They could do the same with people inciting violence.

I already explained why algorithmically removing content doesn't work, you fucking retard.

(https://www.generadormemes.com/media/created/1200x675x49thhu2ap4h47d0act3y0mu2bbqkhz6w6h3o95pp25af8ngb7vn9dv11bhq7owb.jpg.pagespeed.ic.meme.jpg)

Did I say they should automatically remove it, pinche pendejo? lol I just said they alaready have the technology to recognize and monitor it.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 13, 2021, 10:37:31 AM
I already explained why algorithmically removing content doesn't work, you fucking retard.
I love how he assumes that any algorithm won't be skewed by programmers anyways.

It's like how Twitter happily leaves the genocidal blathering of Ayatollah Khamenei up, but God forbid Trump say mean things. Bias is a thing.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: KingCheops on January 13, 2021, 12:10:17 PM
Holy Shit!

Rolling Stone magazine still covers music?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 13, 2021, 12:14:34 PM
Seven days from now, Joseph R. Biden of Delaware will be President of the United States.

The attack on the Capitol Building continues to look worse and worse; the insurrection was coming from within the House. The 14th amendment is probably more in play than the 25th amendment ever was.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/01/13/mikie-sherrill-reconnaissance-capitol-attack/
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 13, 2021, 12:23:31 PM
::)  Pat, it's not always about Pat. Mistwell's "you" looks to be generic, as in "if you support the people who stormed the Capitol then you are in the extreme minority". He conveyed exactly that through the polling numbers about approval of that riot, but the "you" in that post might have been a generic person or specific to Spinachcat, to whom he was replying (and to whom he might still be referring, although it seems unlikely to me). Which you (Pat) presumably read since you (Pat) replied to that post. (The "your" in "your poll" which you omitted is you (Pat), by context, though.)

And he really didn't talk about Trump approval, only about people who don't trust the election results. Trump approval is going to be more stable, since supporters and detractors alike are going to look at Trump over a much longer period of time. Finding a more stable statistic to rebut the opinions of current events (last week's riot, the election of just over two months ago) looks like cherry picking.
The you looks specific to me. Confusing posters in a fast-moving thread is pretty easy.

Willfully misinterpreting posts to fuel complaints is a trademark Pat move.

Quote
And rebutting what? I didn't refute anything, I provided another data point.
Rather than using a strained segue into a different topic (you (Pat) now claim you intended to discuss something else), how about just posting what you (Pat) want to talk about? You (Pat) wrote:
There's that, and there's this:

Your (Pat's) polling number directly juxtaposed with the polling numbers that Mistwell posted, clearly to rebut that Mistwell's polling numbers were meaningful.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 13, 2021, 12:40:18 PM
::)  Pat, it's not always about Pat. Mistwell's "you" looks to be generic, as in "if you support the people who stormed the Capitol then you are in the extreme minority". He conveyed exactly that through the polling numbers about approval of that riot, but the "you" in that post might have been a generic person or specific to Spinachcat, to whom he was replying (and to whom he might still be referring, although it seems unlikely to me). Which you (Pat) presumably read since you (Pat) replied to that post. (The "your" in "your poll" which you omitted is you (Pat), by context, though.)

And he really didn't talk about Trump approval, only about people who don't trust the election results. Trump approval is going to be more stable, since supporters and detractors alike are going to look at Trump over a much longer period of time. Finding a more stable statistic to rebut the opinions of current events (last week's riot, the election of just over two months ago) looks like cherry picking.
The you looks specific to me. Confusing posters in a fast-moving thread is pretty easy.

Willfully misinterpreting posts to fuel complaints is a trademark Pat move.

Quote
And rebutting what? I didn't refute anything, I provided another data point.
Rather than using a strained segue into a different topic (you (Pat) now claim you intended to discuss something else), how about just posting what you (Pat) want to talk about? You (Pat) wrote:
There's that, and there's this:

Your (Pat's) polling number directly juxtaposed with the polling numbers that Mistwell posted, clearly to rebut that Mistwell's polling numbers were meaningful.
And you're back to blatantly lying about me, you odious little troll.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 13, 2021, 01:40:16 PM
At the same time, I think that it's time for platforms to be responsible for the actual incitements to violence (far-left or far-right). They are pretty good at detecting and shutting down even fair-use of music or other media on their platforms, but they can't do shit about people who shout "FIRE" in a "crowded theater"?

No, online platforms should NOT be responsible for anything anyone posts in their site, and they are NOT good at detecting and shutting down copyrighted material precisely because they consistently shut down fair-use of music and other media. It is not the role of tech companies (or of self-entitled users within their platforms going after people they personally don't like) to make legal determinations about ANYTHING. They're not lawyers, they're not legal scholars or judges or law enforcement and have NO role in the government or legal procedures. These are NOT functions that fall within the purview of fucking monopolistic tech giants. It is not their job and they are not properly equipped to determine whether or not a supposed "tHrEaT oF vIolEnCe" or any other questionable post is legally actionable material. That is the job of the FBI, or equivalent agencies when it comes to users outside of the US. It's supposed to be THEM who make that determination, not our self-appointed tech overlords. That is why section 230 exists, and their insistence on stepping beyond their bounds is precisely why we're on this mess.

How should they not be responsible for monitoring what goes on their platforms? Unless you are saying that law enforcement should have people sitting at their desk sifting through YouTube crap.


And you're completely wrong. Their AI is excellent at auto-flagging even melodies played on a guitar that match copyrighted material. They could do the same with people inciting violence.

If they see something that they BELIEVE might be legally actionable they're supposed to report it to law enforcement and let THEM make the determination. If "concerned" citizens participating within those platforms see something questionable and want to rat out their political adversaries they could do the same. It's not rocket science.

So you think that this should be handled by people sifting through thousands of Youtube videos, thousands of Facebook posts, etc?

Yes.

The immediate necessity to purge every single instance of anyone saying something that could possibly, MAAAYBE be construed as theoretically "inciting" violence (according to someone's subjective interpretation of it) or some other objectionable material is the fevered dream of demented imbeciles who feel the need to control absolutely, positively EVERYTHING. We don't NEED to police every single instance of someone telling someone else to "KYS retard, lol" in social media. It's NEUROTIC.

If it's so egregious someone feels the need to do something they can just report it (and even then that tends to lead to bans for completely harmless wrongthink or edgyspeak). But if no one saw it and no one was upset it doesn't fucking matter. We don't need to scour the internet for every instance of someone failing to toe the line.

And you're completely wrong. Their AI is excellent at auto-flagging even melodies played on a guitar that match copyrighted material. They could do the same with people inciting violence.

I already explained why algorithmically removing content doesn't work, you fucking retard.

(https://www.generadormemes.com/media/created/1200x675x49thhu2ap4h47d0act3y0mu2bbqkhz6w6h3o95pp25af8ngb7vn9dv11bhq7owb.jpg.pagespeed.ic.meme.jpg)

Did I say they should automatically remove it, pinche pendejo? lol I just said they alaready have the technology to recognize and monitor it.

Dude, I'm Puerto Rican, not Mexican. Das waycist, yo!  :o

We don't even use the word "pinche" here. We'd just probably say "Canto 'e pedenjo!", or maybe "Jodio fuckin' pendejo!", "Canto 'e fuckin' pedenjo!" or something like that.

I already explained why algorithmically removing content doesn't work, you fucking retard.
I love how he assumes that any algorithm won't be skewed by programmers anyways.

It's like how Twitter happily leaves the genocidal blathering of Ayatollah Khamenei up, but God forbid Trump say mean things. Bias is a thing.

Implying that the Ayatollah needs to be banned is deeply Islamophobic, though. But banning Trump for saying that he's supporters will not be disrespected is OK, cuz Orange Man Bad + White Privilege.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on January 13, 2021, 01:41:05 PM
Go on. Define what their trolley problems are, and why that means you can't call a hypocrite a hypocrite (unless, of course, EOTB approves of it).

I don’t think so, bruh.  I made a statement that using hypocrisy arguments as direct persuasion was a foolish waste of time, because people don’t care about some rando “shaming” them.  Which is self-evident in the impact your own crying hypocrisy has had here - the exact same big fat zero that all the hypocrisy arguments thrown from here in the direction of RPG.net have had. 

This you’ve twisted into saying you can’t use that rhetoric without my permission.  So don’t ask me for further good-faith explanations on anything else.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 13, 2021, 01:53:09 PM
Holy Shit!

Rolling Stone magazine still covers music?

Well, that issue is 12 years old...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 13, 2021, 02:42:58 PM
Regarding social media responsibility:

No, online platforms should NOT be responsible for anything anyone posts in their site, and they are NOT good at detecting and shutting down copyrighted material precisely because they consistently shut down fair-use of music and other media. It is not the role of tech companies (or of self-entitled users within their platforms going after people they personally don't like) to make legal determinations about ANYTHING. They're not lawyers, they're not legal scholars or judges or law enforcement and have NO role in the government or legal procedures. These are NOT functions that fall within the purview of fucking monopolistic tech giants. It is not their job and they are not properly equipped to determine whether or not a supposed "tHrEaT oF vIolEnCe" or any other questionable post is legally actionable material. That is the job of the FBI, or equivalent agencies when it comes to users outside of the US. It's supposed to be THEM who make that determination, not our self-appointed tech overlords. That is why section 230 exists, and their insistence on stepping beyond their bounds is precisely why we're on this mess.

What do you think about Trump's calls to remove Section 230 protections for social media?

https://techcrunch.com/2020/12/23/trump-ndaa-veto-section-230/

I'm not sure exactly where I stand on how to reform Section 230, but I do think that it is *not* simply the purview of the FBI and police to handle all lawbreaking. Citizens have a responsibility to report crime and not participate in it.

For example, someone tells me a slanderous rumor about someone else - I then write it up and send it to a newspaper, which prints it. I think both I and the newspaper have some responsibility here - both legally and ethically. Just mindlessly repeating what one is told is wrong. People should be responsible for what they say and publish. That is a standard that newspapers are held to, but social media companies get a special legal loophole.

That said, I'm not eager for social media companies to be the determiners of truth. *If* we give them a legal loophole to avoid responsibility, though, then there need to be strings attached that make the social media more functionally public and allowing of free speech.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 13, 2021, 02:46:54 PM
Go on. Define what their trolley problems are, and why that means you can't call a hypocrite a hypocrite (unless, of course, EOTB approves of it).

I don’t think so, bruh.  I made a statement that using hypocrisy arguments as direct persuasion was a foolish waste of time, because people don’t care about some rando “shaming” them.  Which is self-evident in the impact your own crying hypocrisy has had here - the exact same big fat zero that all the hypocrisy arguments thrown from here in the direction of RPG.net have had. 


So you're admitting that when you cry 'hypocrisy', you've been willfully wasting your time. Got it, bruh.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 13, 2021, 02:53:58 PM
If you say so. I saw you use the n-word (https://imgur.com/MA9vwuO), but haven't seen you say 'beaner', 'spic' and other racist stuff in the last hour at least.  I"m inclined to believe you would though, since you admit so!

Beaner?

What are you, retarded or legitimately brain damaged?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 13, 2021, 02:55:32 PM
If you say so. I saw you use the n-word (https://imgur.com/MA9vwuO), but haven't seen you say 'beaner', 'spic' and other racist stuff in the last hour at least.  I"m inclined to believe you would though, since you admit so!

Beaner?

What are you, retarded or legitimately brain damaged?

You're projecting there. But at least you haven't said 'beaner' in the last 10 minutes.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on January 13, 2021, 02:57:14 PM
Go on. Define what their trolley problems are, and why that means you can't call a hypocrite a hypocrite (unless, of course, EOTB approves of it).

I don’t think so, bruh.  I made a statement that using hypocrisy arguments as direct persuasion was a foolish waste of time, because people don’t care about some rando “shaming” them.  Which is self-evident in the impact your own crying hypocrisy has had here - the exact same big fat zero that all the hypocrisy arguments thrown from here in the direction of RPG.net have had. 



So you're admitting that when you cry 'hypocrisy', you've been willfully wasting your time. Got it, bruh.

Not surprised at all that this is all you could “get” from that. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 13, 2021, 02:58:17 PM
Not surprised you can't deal with your own cognitive dissonance, lol.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 13, 2021, 02:58:51 PM
What do you think about Trump's calls to remove Section 230 protections for social media?

https://techcrunch.com/2020/12/23/trump-ndaa-veto-section-230/

I'm not sure exactly where I stand on how to reform Section 230, but I do think that it is *not* simply the purview of the FBI and police to handle all lawbreaking. Citizens have a responsibility to report crime and not participate in it.

For example, someone tells me a slanderous rumor about someone else - I then write it up and send it to a newspaper, which prints it. I think both I and the newspaper have some responsibility here - both legally and ethically. Just mindlessly repeating what one is told is wrong. People should be responsible for what they say and publish. That is a standard that newspapers are held to, but social media companies get a special legal loophole.

That said, I'm not eager for social media companies to be the determiners of truth. *If* we give them a legal loophole to avoid responsibility, though, then there need to be strings attached that make the social media more functionally public and allowing of free speech.
I know you weren't asking me, but my two cents? It was a bad idea. He was flinging the baby out with the bathwater.

Part of the problem with 230, as I understand it, is that there's no real way to determine and enforce it from a negative standpoint. You can't call up the FCC and say 'Twitter is deliberately straddling the publisher / provider line' and have regulators lean on them till they get their head on straight. It only functions as a defense against civil actions, which means it's case by case.

I can understand Trump's frustration, as Big Tech has been nothing less than blatantly obnoxious, but his solution was worse than the disease.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 13, 2021, 03:03:36 PM
The government broke up big oil and ma bell over monopoly issues. Maybe it's time to consider something similar for these social media megacorps.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on January 13, 2021, 03:14:33 PM
Not surprised you can't deal with your own cognitive dissonance, lol.

Bruh, I’m not the one starting out my posts with “so what you mean is” and throwing lols around like penny candy at a marti gras parade.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 13, 2021, 03:23:32 PM

Did I say they should automatically remove it, pinche pendejo? lol I just said they alaready have the technology to recognize and monitor it.

Dude, I'm Puerto Rican, not Mexican. Das waycist, yo!  :o

We don't even use the word "pinche" here. We'd just probably say "Canto 'e pedenjo!", or maybe "Jodio fuckin' pendejo!", "Canto 'e fuckin' pedenjo!" or something like that.


Did I say you were Mexican? lol

So you think that this should be handled by people sifting through thousands of Youtube videos, thousands of Facebook posts, etc?

Yes.

The immediate necessity to purge every single instance of anyone saying something that could possibly, MAAAYBE be construed as theoretically "inciting" violence (according to someone's subjective interpretation of it) or some other objectionable material is the fevered dream of demented imbeciles who feel the need to control absolutely, positively EVERYTHING. We don't NEED to police every single instance of someone telling someone else to "KYS retard, lol" in social media. It's NEUROTIC.

If it's so egregious someone feels the need to do something they can just report it (and even then that tends to lead to bans for completely harmless wrongthink or edgyspeak). But if no one saw it and no one was upset it doesn't fucking matter. We don't need to scour the internet for every instance of someone failing to toe the line.

Weeepa! Nice elaborate strawman you've built there, bori bori, pero I have a couple of questions for you. Hope they don't overheat your small brain:

Do you know how to generally distinguish incitement to violence and normal speech? Or are you too much of an asno to tell the difference? Futhermore, does you being too much of a dumbass to distinguish between most normal speech  and incitement to violence mean that it shouldn't be monitored and at least have eyes on it?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 13, 2021, 03:24:34 PM
Bruh, I’m not the one starting out my posts with “so what you mean is” and throwing lols around like penny candy at a marti gras parade.

No, you're just the one making grand statements you won't back up, lol.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 13, 2021, 03:25:32 PM
Watch out, its a Beaner!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1290434690487218176/DNmKXZQ6_400x400.jpg)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 13, 2021, 03:27:44 PM
Watch out, its a Beaner!

I can also believe that you haven't called hispanics 'spics' in the last ten minutes, or that you haven't spewed any of your usual dumb shit in that time period. You are on a roll. :)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 13, 2021, 03:40:01 PM
Watch out, its a Beaner!

I can also believe that you haven't called hispanics 'spics' in the last ten minutes, or that you haven't spewed any of your usual dumb shit in that time period. You are on a roll. :)

Ok, Beaner.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 13, 2021, 03:44:05 PM
Ok, Beaner.

I've never worn a beanie hat in my life, so you most likely mean it in some other way. A-OK!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on January 13, 2021, 03:48:01 PM
If the lefties hate America so much, then they should secede.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 13, 2021, 03:52:32 PM
I've never worn a beanie hat in my life, so you most likely mean it in some other way. A-OK!

If you were from South Africa you would be complaining about the blics
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 13, 2021, 03:53:58 PM
I'm not sure exactly where I stand on how to reform Section 230, but I do think that it is *not* simply the purview of the FBI and police to handle all lawbreaking. Citizens have a responsibility to report crime and not participate in it.

For example, someone tells me a slanderous rumor about someone else - I then write it up and send it to a newspaper, which prints it. I think both I and the newspaper have some responsibility here - both legally and ethically. Just mindlessly repeating what one is told is wrong. People should be responsible for what they say and publish. That is a standard that newspapers are held to, but social media companies get a special legal loophole.

That said, I'm not eager for social media companies to be the determiners of truth. *If* we give them a legal loophole to avoid responsibility, though, then there need to be strings attached that make the social media more functionally public and allowing of free speech.
Your standard for spreading of the responsibility for a slanderous rumor would come close to preventing anyone from saying anything negative about anyone else, ever. That would pretty much kill public discussion about people. The internet can be one huge dogpile for one who gets the slightest bit famous just because of the asymmetric number of responses, but we also shouldn't criminalize gossip.

I don't have a clear answer on 230, either, except to say all the proposals seem terrible. The platform vs. publisher distinction is a good one, but requires a lot of thought to implement.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on January 13, 2021, 04:27:27 PM
Bruh, I’m not the one starting out my posts with “so what you mean is” and throwing lols around like penny candy at a marti gras parade.

No, you're just the one making grand statements you won't back up, lol.

Fact check: true

All you get is the conclusion 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 13, 2021, 04:34:54 PM
*Throws many a pearl*
*oink oink oink*
*Realizes you don't throw pearls before swine*
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 13, 2021, 04:57:14 PM
Donald Trump impeached, a second time, for inciting the insurrection discussed in this thread. Ten Republicans overcame the fear gripping so many in their caucus to vote for it.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 13, 2021, 05:00:33 PM
I doubt it will go beyond a symbolic gesture. The Senate will slap it down.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: myleftnut on January 13, 2021, 05:18:56 PM
I doubt it will go beyond a symbolic gesture. The Senate will slap it down.

I think that’s the point.  It’s a political strategy.  They want to force Republicans to vote innocent. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 13, 2021, 05:33:35 PM
I know. We'll see if that's a strategy that pays out. I know most sane people are angry at Trump, but this could come across like a political ploy (which for Pelosi, I'm sure it is). It's not going to make people suddenly start voting democratic in droves. Just my two.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 13, 2021, 05:45:43 PM
I know. We'll see if that's a strategy that pays out. I know most sane people are angry at Trump, but this could come across like a political ploy (which for Pelosi, I'm sure it is). It's not going to make people suddenly start voting democratic in droves. Just my two.

My impression was that Bill Clinton's impeachment trial did reduce his approval rating, mostly by keeping testimony about his questionable actions in the news for week after week. Though Clinton was at a very high approval rating at the time the trial started, so the situation is quite different. That also seemed like political theater, in that there was no possibility of getting two-thirds of the Senate. At least with Andrew Johnson, the Senate was very close to confirming impeachment (just one vote short).
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 13, 2021, 05:55:32 PM
Regarding social media responsibility:

No, online platforms should NOT be responsible for anything anyone posts in their site, and they are NOT good at detecting and shutting down copyrighted material precisely because they consistently shut down fair-use of music and other media. It is not the role of tech companies (or of self-entitled users within their platforms going after people they personally don't like) to make legal determinations about ANYTHING. They're not lawyers, they're not legal scholars or judges or law enforcement and have NO role in the government or legal procedures. These are NOT functions that fall within the purview of fucking monopolistic tech giants. It is not their job and they are not properly equipped to determine whether or not a supposed "tHrEaT oF vIolEnCe" or any other questionable post is legally actionable material. That is the job of the FBI, or equivalent agencies when it comes to users outside of the US. It's supposed to be THEM who make that determination, not our self-appointed tech overlords. That is why section 230 exists, and their insistence on stepping beyond their bounds is precisely why we're on this mess.

What do you think about Trump's calls to remove Section 230 protections for social media?

https://techcrunch.com/2020/12/23/trump-ndaa-veto-section-230/

Guy's an idiot who's just repeating what some people said about removing section 230 protections from big tech companies that insist on acting like publishers without looking into what section 230 does. I mean, the guy was a better choice than Biden, but he's not perfect. Section 230 should be reformed so that section 230 still exists, but any company that behaves like publishers lose their protections but the rest of the internet keeps theirs. But outright removing section 230 rather than reforming it would be disastrous for the internet as we know it.

I'm not sure exactly where I stand on how to reform Section 230, but I do think that it is *not* simply the purview of the FBI and police to handle all lawbreaking. Citizens have a responsibility to report crime and not participate in it.

For example, someone tells me a slanderous rumor about someone else - I then write it up and send it to a newspaper, which prints it. I think both I and the newspaper have some responsibility here - both legally and ethically. Just mindlessly repeating what one is told is wrong. People should be responsible for what they say and publish. That is a standard that newspapers are held to, but social media companies get a special legal loophole.

I mean, I'm not hot about people ratting out other people for petty crimes. I'd never call the cops on someone for using drugs, for example. Victimless "crimes" are none of my business as far as I'm concerned. But any serious crimes need to be reported.

The stuff about newspapers is a tricky business, though, cuz it's one thing for some random person to idly speculate about potentially slanderous stuff down the street, or even in social media. It's another thing for a newspaper or other news publishers with broad reach and credibility to just run with it and publish it as fact, as they often seem to do (particularly when discussing broad groups of people, like GamerGate or Trump supporters, as opposed to specific individuals, where "slander" would more properly apply legally speaking from what I understand). People have a right to discuss potentially false or inaccurate stuff, particularly since no one has perfect knowledge of every topic, so they might simply be wrong or just speculating about something. But when "authoritative" sources disseminate false claims to a credulous public it becomes an issue because they may take it as fact. But they might not take as fact something some random anonymous guy told them in social media one time.

That said, I'm not eager for social media companies to be the determiners of truth. *If* we give them a legal loophole to avoid responsibility, though, then there need to be strings attached that make the social media more functionally public and allowing of free speech.

Pretty much agree.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 13, 2021, 06:03:12 PM
Calling for peaceful and law abiding protest is insurrection.
I hope Trump runs again in 2024 and wins, and I hope the populists give the "progressive" Democrats and thier crony Republican allies four years of hell.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Melan on January 13, 2021, 06:06:13 PM
The government broke up big oil and ma bell over monopoly issues. Maybe it's time to consider something similar for these social media megacorps.
Maybe?
Consider???
Now?
Who? What government?! The one who is now enjoying incredible power thanks to these same tech monopolies?

The guys who might have done it hemmed and hawed for four years, while their allies and supporters were hunted down one by one.

Now it is too late. The proverbial "good people" (in this respect, at least) did nothing, and Evil has won. It will be a long, dark night that follows.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 13, 2021, 06:09:01 PM
Donald Trump impeached, a second time, for inciting the insurrection discussed in this thread. Ten Republicans overcame the fear gripping so many in their caucus to vote for it.

I guess that makes Trump the first president in history to have been impeached twice for completely bullshit and baseless reasons fabricated by his political opponents. Democrats will continue to get the world that they have created.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: myleftnut on January 13, 2021, 06:14:50 PM
Reeeemix!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on January 13, 2021, 06:16:45 PM
Holy Shit!

Rolling Stone magazine still covers music?

Of all the unbelievable things said in this thread, that's the most unbelievable.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: VisionStorm on January 13, 2021, 06:19:56 PM

Did I say they should automatically remove it, pinche pendejo? lol I just said they alaready have the technology to recognize and monitor it.

Dude, I'm Puerto Rican, not Mexican. Das waycist, yo!  :o

We don't even use the word "pinche" here. We'd just probably say "Canto 'e pedenjo!", or maybe "Jodio fuckin' pendejo!", "Canto 'e fuckin' pedenjo!" or something like that.


Did I say you were Mexican? lol

So you think that this should be handled by people sifting through thousands of Youtube videos, thousands of Facebook posts, etc?

Yes.

The immediate necessity to purge every single instance of anyone saying something that could possibly, MAAAYBE be construed as theoretically "inciting" violence (according to someone's subjective interpretation of it) or some other objectionable material is the fevered dream of demented imbeciles who feel the need to control absolutely, positively EVERYTHING. We don't NEED to police every single instance of someone telling someone else to "KYS retard, lol" in social media. It's NEUROTIC.

If it's so egregious someone feels the need to do something they can just report it (and even then that tends to lead to bans for completely harmless wrongthink or edgyspeak). But if no one saw it and no one was upset it doesn't fucking matter. We don't need to scour the internet for every instance of someone failing to toe the line.

Weeepa! Nice elaborate strawman you've built there, bori bori, pero I have a couple of questions for you. Hope they don't overheat your small brain:

Do you know how to generally distinguish incitement to violence and normal speech? Or are you too much of an asno to tell the difference? Futhermore, does you being too much of a dumbass to distinguish between most normal speech  and incitement to violence mean that it shouldn't be monitored and at least have eyes on it?

Muthafucka, you can't tell the difference between me being serious or joking, or between me elaborating on a subject or making a StRaWmAn, but you're gonna tell me that a fucking algorithm is gonna do a good job of accomplishing that task? Or that brazenly politically biased tech giants are adequately equipped to distinguish between "acceptable" speech and supposed InCiTeMeNt To ViOlEnCe? You truly are a fucking imbecile.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on January 13, 2021, 06:25:43 PM
I doubt it will go beyond a symbolic gesture. The Senate will slap it down.

I am not so sure about that. I used to think that...but no longer.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 13, 2021, 06:33:40 PM
Muthafucka, you can't tell the difference between me being serious or joking, or between me elaborating on a subject or making a StRaWmAn, but you're gonna tell me that a fucking algorithm is gonna do a good job of accomplishing that task? Or that brazenly politically biased tech giants are adequately equipped to distinguish between "acceptable" speech and supposed InCiTeMeNt To ViOlEnCe? You truly are a fucking imbecile.

I'd put my money on a COBOL program doing a better job at that than you, for sure, lol. Let me edit that: the smart money says an abacus can do a better job than you at that.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 13, 2021, 06:42:18 PM
I've submitted to have the social media discussion be a separate thread, but it hasn't been approved yet.

I'm not sure exactly where I stand on how to reform Section 230, but I do think that it is *not* simply the purview of the FBI and police to handle all lawbreaking. Citizens have a responsibility to report crime and not participate in it.

For example, someone tells me a slanderous rumor about someone else - I then write it up and send it to a newspaper, which prints it. I think both I and the newspaper have some responsibility here - both legally and ethically. Just mindlessly repeating what one is told is wrong. People should be responsible for what they say and publish. That is a standard that newspapers are held to, but social media companies get a special legal loophole.

That said, I'm not eager for social media companies to be the determiners of truth. *If* we give them a legal loophole to avoid responsibility, though, then there need to be strings attached that make the social media more functionally public and allowing of free speech.
Your standard for spreading of the responsibility for a slanderous rumor would come close to preventing anyone from saying anything negative about anyone else, ever. That would pretty much kill public discussion about people. The internet can be one huge dogpile for one who gets the slightest bit famous just because of the asymmetric number of responses, but we also shouldn't criminalize gossip.

I don't have a clear answer on 230, either, except to say all the proposals seem terrible. The platform vs. publisher distinction is a good one, but requires a lot of thought to implement.

I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that spreading responsibility is how the law works already - and in fact, that's how it has been for decades if not centuries. If a newspaper publishes libel about someone, they have some responsibility for what they say. It is only because of Section 230 that Internet publishers are not liable.

https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/immunity-online-publishers-under-communications-decency-act


I mean, I'm not hot about people ratting out other people for petty crimes. I'd never call the cops on someone for using drugs, for example. Victimless "crimes" are none of my business as far as I'm concerned. But any serious crimes need to be reported.

The stuff about newspapers is a tricky business, though, cuz it's one thing for some random person to idly speculate about potentially slanderous stuff down the street, or even in social media. It's another thing for a newspaper or other news publishers with broad reach and credibility to just run with it and publish it as fact, as they often seem to do (particularly when discussing broad groups of people, like GamerGate or Trump supporters, as opposed to specific individuals, where "slander" would more properly apply legally speaking from what I understand). People have a right to discuss potentially false or inaccurate stuff, particularly since no one has perfect knowledge of every topic, so they might simply be wrong or just speculating about something. But when "authoritative" sources disseminate false claims to a credulous public it becomes an issue because they may take it as fact. But they might not take as fact something some random anonymous guy told them in social media one time.

I think it's the opposite. These days, I think social media has far *more* influence over people than newspapers do. That's because it seems personal -- my friend Mike showed me this link, and I trust Mike. And it has a built-in mechanism for reinforcing this with "likes", which gives it an interactive feedback loop. Newspapers are struggling to compete with social media, and a lot of them are being forced to close shop (especially the local ones).

And social media companies strongly influence the content on their platforms. This isn't primarily by banning -- it's by suggesting and increasing visibility of certain content, and decreasing the visibility of other content. And they also do block posts and/or ban people.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 13, 2021, 06:53:17 PM
I doubt it will go beyond a symbolic gesture. The Senate will slap it down.

I am not so sure about that. I used to think that...but no longer.

There's some merit to having the impeachment hanging over Trump in the final days. McConnell has stated that it won't be taken up by the Senate before Biden is inaugurated. Maybe there's an implicit "barring another stunt like the insurrection", maybe not; I hope Trump isn't too sure of the latter.

I hope Trump runs again in 2024 and wins, and I hope the populists give the "progressive" Democrats and thier crony Republican allies four years of hell.

Trump will be back?

From two months ago, so both dated and prescient. "And if you still dissent, I will kill democracy to remain the president."
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 13, 2021, 07:15:57 PM
I guess that makes Trump the first president in history to have been impeached twice for completely bullshit and baseless reasons fabricated by his political opponents. Democrats will continue to get the world that they have created.
Why stop at twice? There's a full week until the inauguration.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 13, 2021, 07:23:32 PM
I've submitted to have the social media discussion be a separate thread, but it hasn't been approved yet.

I'm not sure exactly where I stand on how to reform Section 230, but I do think that it is *not* simply the purview of the FBI and police to handle all lawbreaking. Citizens have a responsibility to report crime and not participate in it.

For example, someone tells me a slanderous rumor about someone else - I then write it up and send it to a newspaper, which prints it. I think both I and the newspaper have some responsibility here - both legally and ethically. Just mindlessly repeating what one is told is wrong. People should be responsible for what they say and publish. That is a standard that newspapers are held to, but social media companies get a special legal loophole.

That said, I'm not eager for social media companies to be the determiners of truth. *If* we give them a legal loophole to avoid responsibility, though, then there need to be strings attached that make the social media more functionally public and allowing of free speech.
Your standard for spreading of the responsibility for a slanderous rumor would come close to preventing anyone from saying anything negative about anyone else, ever. That would pretty much kill public discussion about people. The internet can be one huge dogpile for one who gets the slightest bit famous just because of the asymmetric number of responses, but we also shouldn't criminalize gossip.

I don't have a clear answer on 230, either, except to say all the proposals seem terrible. The platform vs. publisher distinction is a good one, but requires a lot of thought to implement.

I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that spreading responsibility is how the law works already - and in fact, that's how it has been for decades if not centuries. If a newspaper publishes libel about someone, they have some responsibility for what they say. It is only because of Section 230 that Internet publishers are not liable.

https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/immunity-online-publishers-under-communications-decency-act
There's a big difference between treating a newspaper as a publisher, and treating every backyard gossip who posts on twitter or facebook as a publisher.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 13, 2021, 08:21:08 PM
I doubt it will go beyond a symbolic gesture. The Senate will slap it down.

I am not so sure about that. I used to think that...but no longer.

There's some merit to having the impeachment hanging over Trump in the final days. McConnell has stated that it won't be taken up by the Senate before Biden is inaugurated. Maybe there's an implicit "barring another stunt like the insurrection", maybe not; I hope Trump isn't too sure of the latter.

I hope Trump runs again in 2024 and wins, and I hope the populists give the "progressive" Democrats and thier crony Republican allies four years of hell.

Trump will be back?

From two months ago, so both dated and prescient. "And if you still dissent, I will kill democracy to remain the president."

The social media crackdowns have let Conservatives know that the current media industrial complex is gunning for them. It's not just Trump, but anyone in the way of their narrative. They tightend their grip, and now more voters are going to slip through their fingers.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 13, 2021, 08:31:13 PM
Donald Trump impeached, a second time, for inciting the insurrection discussed in this thread. Ten Republicans overcame the fear gripping so many in their caucus to vote for it.

Finally Trump impeached!  Lets see if it will stick this time or just another big nothing burger.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 13, 2021, 08:35:31 PM
"And if you still dissent, I will kill democracy to remain the president."

Thats a good one, Trump will kill democracy.

I had my money on retarded Beaners.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: consolcwby on January 13, 2021, 10:13:07 PM
(https://v1.nitrocdn.com/PtUefQrfncdsWOjilqcqdvGyQbUvpoWC/assets/desktop/optimized/rev-f43d399/media/4712a921f8f27cbf8e5651ce3d906935.EroXmS4XIAANS9G)
FOOD FOR THOUGHT
================
Eric Swalwell being promoted to House Impeachment Manager instead of being removed from the House Intelligence Committee is proof that Democrats have no problem with the CCP controlling their members. That should tell you everything you need to know about their party.
House Republicans who backed impeachment: Rep. Liz Cheney (WY) Rep. Jaime Herrera Beutler (WA) Rep. John Katko (NY) Rep. Adam Kinzinger (IL) Rep. Fred Upton (MI) Rep. Dan Newhouse (WA) Rep. Peter Meijer (MI) Rep. Anthony Gonzalez (OH) Rep. Tom Rice (SC) Rep. David Valadao (CA)

Rep. Lauren Boebert (R-CO), one of President Trump’s most vocal defenders, has been locked out of her Twitter account until inauguration day.
YouTube announced it is suspending the channel of President Trump for a minimum of one week for posting an unspecified video the tech giant accused of “inciting violence.” The video was taken down by YouTube and the posting of comments to Trump’s videos was also disabled. Trumps channel received 1 strike, which means it will be down for 7 days, interesting isn't it?

Also, Vice President Mike Pence confirmed in a letter addressed to Nancy Pelosi that he will not invoke the 25th amendment to remove President Trump from office, just hours before the House was set to vote on a resolution formally calling on him to do so.
In a letter to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Pence said he does not “believe that such a course of action is in the best interest of our Nation or consistent with our Constitution”, and adding that he did “not yield to pressure to exert power beyond my constitutional authority to determine the outcome of the election, and I will not now yield to efforts in the House of Representatives to play political games at a time so serious in the life of our Nation.” 

GABBY PREZ REINSTATED!
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/01/wow-gab-ceo-defies-tech-tyrants-restores-president-trumps-tweets-twitter-trumps-account-gab-https-gab-com-realdonaldtrump/

VIRUS?! THERE WAS NEVER ANY VIRUS!
The coronavirus is here to stay, but once most adults are immune — following natural infection or vaccination — the virus will be no more of a threat than the common cold, according to a study published in the journal Science on Tuesday. No moar ORANGEMAN, no moar VYE-RUSS!!
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/health/coronavirus-immunity-future.html
CUZ, SCIENCE!
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2021/01/11/science.abe6522

RIOTS?! THERE WAS NEVER ANY- OH! WAIT!
https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1305642555854524419

ACting DHS Chad Wolf Resigned

Peter Thomas Gaynor (born 1958) is an American Certified Emergency Manager who is the Administrator of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). He was appointed as Acting Administrator by President Donald Trump on March 8, 2019, and became Administrator on January 16, 2020. On January 12, 2021, upon the resignation of Chad Wolf, he assumed the role of Acting Secretary of Homeland Security.His specialty is on INSURGENCY, btw!

And, finally:
WHO KILLED JFK?
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/01/president-kennedy-asked-fbi-look-speaker-pelosis-father-connections-mob-documents-quietly-released-last-week-confirm/
President John F. Kennedy requested that Speaker Pelosi’s father, Thomas D’Alesandro Jr. be investigated by the FBI for his connections to organized crime.  The related FBI documents were quietly released on January 6th. On January 6th the FBI quietly released documents related to Nancy Pelosi’s father.  Thomas D’Alesandro Jr was investigated by the FBI in 1961 per a request from President John F. Kennedy.  The document drop was released while Big Media and the Democrats were busy approving a stolen election and pushing the narrative that Trump supporters are violent: We might see  SUICIDES this week and next!!!

Trump needed to see the entire board, who was on his side and who was bought and paid for. This new impeachment doesn’t matter it is meaningless! At this stage of the game, those who are going to carry out the operation already know the treasonous crimes these people have committed, the indictments are already in place, Durhams investigation is complete, Radcliffe already delivered the report, they have been waiting for this very moment, Trump is insulated.

Trump might wait until the inauguration, allow Biden to get on stage and then Trump plays the final Trump card. WE did our JOB on Nov. 3rd, we VOTED. When the vote was stolen WE shouted our OUTRAGE! The PEOPLE have spoken, our job is done! It’s out of our hands at this point.

Trump is already letting us know,  “Trump To Supporters: ‘NO Violence, NO Lawbreaking’ At Inauguration Protests”
TRUMP: “In light of reports of more demonstrations, I urge that there must be NO violence, NO lawbreaking and NO vandalism of any kind. That is not what I stand for, and it is not what America stands for. I call on ALL Americans to help ease tensions and calm tempers. Thank You.”
So NOW Trump can present evidence of election theft, foreign interference, and attempted coups by any means. The Democrats, the press, and Big Tech thought they were masters of the universe!
The election theft was done  online.
That means the US military got the evidence.
The Pelosi went to the military under the cover story that Trump was going to fire nuclear missiles, she was pushing the military to instigate a coup!
Just like dear old DAD!

fnord.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 13, 2021, 11:29:19 PM
Donald Trump impeached, a second time, for inciting the insurrection discussed in this thread. Ten Republicans overcame the fear gripping so many in their caucus to vote for it.

Finally Trump impeached!  Lets see if it will stick this time or just another big nothing burger.

The last impeachment kept him somewhat restrained for a while; he was furious about it then, even though nobody expected anything at all to happen in the Senate. A lot of it now is reestablishing norms, like not attacking Congress to overturn election results, and putting a hard choice to Republicans in the Senate - party of Trump or of not-Trump? I'd be satisfied with Trump never holding office again; "impeached twice" is almost as big a résumé stain as having worked in the Trump administration.

"And if you still dissent, I will kill democracy to remain the president."

Thats a good one, Trump will kill democracy.

He tried, last Wednesday; you could look it up. There's probably a thread about it around here with 400+ posts.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: myleftnut on January 13, 2021, 11:35:31 PM
Trump doesn’t give a crap about getting impeached.  Look at his video from today (yesterday?).  He’s more worried about his Twitter ban.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 14, 2021, 12:55:12 AM
Trump doesn’t give a crap about getting impeached.  Look at his video from today (yesterday?).  He’s more worried about his Twitter ban.

And rightfully so. Twitter is more powerful than the US Government.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 14, 2021, 08:17:30 AM
The fact that they're putting Eric 'Me Love Chinese Spygirls' Swalwell on the impeachment committee is proof this is a farce.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 14, 2021, 08:28:33 AM
Speaking of reestablishing norms, in response to the mostly peaceful but terrifying events that led lawmakers to courageously cower in their chambers or bravely flee, metal detectors have suddenly appeared at the entrances to the House floor.

https://nypost.com/2021/01/13/rep-boebert-clashes-with-capitol-police-over-metal-detector/

This wouldn't have affected the protesters in the slightest, so it must be a response to the danger presented by members of Congress. They're telling us we clearly can't trust them.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 14, 2021, 09:10:01 AM
The social media crackdowns have let a certain subset of Conservatives know that the current media industrial complex is gunning for them.
Fixed that for you.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 14, 2021, 09:14:26 AM
Trump doesn’t give a crap about getting impeached.  Look at his video from today (yesterday?).  He’s more worried about his Twitter ban.
Exactly. Trump doesn't care about being president now or in the future (but he want to keep fools believing the the possibility of the latter). What he wants is easy access to the fools that will keep channeling their money to him for at least the next four years. Along the way, he wants to use that access to extort Republicans ("nice elected position you have there, be a shame if something happened to it").
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 14, 2021, 09:44:39 AM
Speaking of reestablishing norms, in response to the mostly peaceful but terrifying events that led lawmakers to courageously cower in their chambers or bravely flee, metal detectors have suddenly appeared at the entrances to the House floor.

https://nypost.com/2021/01/13/rep-boebert-clashes-with-capitol-police-over-metal-detector/

This wouldn't have affected the protesters in the slightest, so it must be a response to the danger presented by members of Congress. They're telling us we clearly can't trust them.
Are they worried Lauren's going to whip out her piece and gank a few Dems?

So much projection.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 14, 2021, 10:05:56 AM
Trump doesn’t give a crap about getting impeached.  Look at his video from today (yesterday?).  He’s more worried about his Twitter ban.
Exactly. Trump doesn't care about being president now or in the future (but he want to keep fools believing the the possibility of the latter). What he wants is easy access to the fools that will keep channeling their money to him for at least the next four years. Along the way, he wants to use that access to extort Republicans ("nice elected position you have there, be a shame if something happened to it").
I think the whole post election fight proves Trump really cares about being president. He seems really sure he legitimately won, fought it using all the legal means available, and ended up sabotaging the Georgia races, which damaged his potential as future kingmaker.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 14, 2021, 10:11:41 AM
I'm glad they went after Trump. Eventually, the Democrates are going to lose, and whoever is in power at the time should prosecute people like Maxine Waters for doing what Trump did. No should be above the law.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Trond on January 14, 2021, 11:22:55 AM
So........ that went well.


As a side note, also this:
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: KingCheops on January 14, 2021, 12:24:18 PM
It's about compliance.  You will comply.  Those words are banned unless I say them.  If you question me you are a white supremacist and I'll charge you as a domestic terrorist.  You will comply.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 14, 2021, 12:30:29 PM
consolcwby posted about the Rachel Rodriguez arrest in San Antonio. (ref) (https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/ag-paxton-woman-accused-of-voter-fraud-in-san-antonio-arrested-charged/)

Trump is already letting us know,  “Trump To Supporters: ‘NO Violence, NO Lawbreaking’ At Inauguration Protests”
TRUMP: “In light of reports of more demonstrations, I urge that there must be NO violence, NO lawbreaking and NO vandalism of any kind. That is not what I stand for, and it is not what America stands for. I call on ALL Americans to help ease tensions and calm tempers. Thank You.”
So NOW Trump can present evidence of election theft, foreign interference, and attempted coups by any means. The Democrats, the press, and Big Tech thought they were masters of the universe!
The election theft was done  online.
That means the US military got the evidence.

I might disagree about facts, but I approve of how consolcwby advocates proceeding in this case. It seems to me that many Trump supporters are giving up on providing evidence of fraud -- when I think that is the most crucial issue. For one, I'd like to see a collected document that assembles the statistical evidence of voter fraud that has double-checked data, and shows its sources and methods. I would think that should have been done early on, and the document updated as more evidence was collected.

Crimes can continue to be prosecuted, and investigations continued. Trump-supporting lawmakers can propose election-reform bills - both on a state level and a federal level.

The Rodriguez case looks like it has merit. People who commit fraud should be investigated and prosecuted.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 14, 2021, 01:00:32 PM
Trump doesn’t give a crap about getting impeached.  Look at his video from today (yesterday?).  He’s more worried about his Twitter ban.
Exactly. Trump doesn't care about being president now or in the future (but he want to keep fools believing the the possibility of the latter). What he wants is easy access to the fools that will keep channeling their money to him for at least the next four years. Along the way, he wants to use that access to extort Republicans ("nice elected position you have there, be a shame if something happened to it").
I think the whole post election fight proves Trump really cares about being president. He seems really sure he legitimately won, fought it using all the legal means available, and ended up sabotaging the Georgia races, which damaged his potential as future kingmaker.
His effort was all smoke, no fire. It wasn't truly an attempt to win--even he isn't stupid enough to think that would happen. But his dumbest supporters...gotta keep them hooked so the money keeps coming in.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 14, 2021, 01:48:10 PM
The social media crackdowns have let a certain subset of Conservatives know that the current media industrial complex is gunning for them.
Fixed that for you.

When has Ron Paul participated in this certain subset?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ron-paul-facebook-censorship-reaction-your-world-liberty-report

And it's not just conservatives, though part of the battle plan is to accuse them of being conservative.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/conservative-walk-away-facebook-page-removed
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 14, 2021, 02:02:40 PM
Yes. The Ron Paul ban is bullshit.

In the long run any of that broad deplatforming will survive scrutiny in the courts.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on January 14, 2021, 02:52:40 PM
All news nowadays is fake news, so I have no idea what is actually the truth anymore since both sides are spin doctoring or outright fabricating everything to the point of absurdity.

Peaceful rally? Violent riot? False flag operation? The answer is whatever is politically expedient from moment to moment.

America done fucked up. Fuck the politicians. Fuck big tech. They're all scum-sucking vampires.

This country desperately needs another revolution to free us from the tyranny of the plutarchy. Viva la America!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 14, 2021, 02:53:25 PM
Yes. The Ron Paul ban is bullshit.

In the long run any of that broad deplatforming will survive scrutiny in the courts.

I replied on the other thread (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/what-to-do-about-social-media-corporations/msg1160617/#msg1160617), since it seems more on-topic there.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 14, 2021, 03:01:08 PM
As a side note, also this:

Rules for you, not rules for me pleeb.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 14, 2021, 03:44:24 PM
Trump doesn’t give a crap about getting impeached.  Look at his video from today (yesterday?).  He’s more worried about his Twitter ban.
Exactly. Trump doesn't care about being president now or in the future (but he want to keep fools believing the the possibility of the latter). What he wants is easy access to the fools that will keep channeling their money to him for at least the next four years. Along the way, he wants to use that access to extort Republicans ("nice elected position you have there, be a shame if something happened to it").

Does your mind reading power do anything else?  I need the Lotto numbers for Saturday.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 14, 2021, 05:45:05 PM
Trump doesn’t give a crap about getting impeached.  Look at his video from today (yesterday?).  He’s more worried about his Twitter ban.
Exactly. Trump doesn't care about being president now or in the future (but he want to keep fools believing the the possibility of the latter). What he wants is easy access to the fools that will keep channeling their money to him for at least the next four years. Along the way, he wants to use that access to extort Republicans ("nice elected position you have there, be a shame if something happened to it").

Does your mind reading power do anything else?  I need the Lotto numbers for Saturday.
Come on, if Trump were serious, would he have used the guest star from the Borat sequel to lead his legal efforts?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 14, 2021, 06:00:51 PM
Trump doesn’t give a crap about getting impeached.  Look at his video from today (yesterday?).  He’s more worried about his Twitter ban.
Exactly. Trump doesn't care about being president now or in the future (but he want to keep fools believing the the possibility of the latter). What he wants is easy access to the fools that will keep channeling their money to him for at least the next four years. Along the way, he wants to use that access to extort Republicans ("nice elected position you have there, be a shame if something happened to it").

Does your mind reading power do anything else?  I need the Lotto numbers for Saturday.
Come on, if Trump were serious, would he have used the guest star from the Borat sequel to lead his legal efforts?

Borat is all you got?  I also support Americas war of terror.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Trond on January 14, 2021, 07:38:59 PM
Not sure how much of a difference it makes at this point, but one “anti-fascist” leftist* has been confirmed to have entered the Capitol building during the riot. He says he wanted to document the moment, but looks like he was deliberately fanning the flames while doing so.

*(though he says he’s not Antifa, this description is clearly correct)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 14, 2021, 07:45:51 PM
Speaking of reestablishing norms, in response to the mostly peaceful but terrifying events that led lawmakers to courageously cower in their chambers or bravely flee, metal detectors have suddenly appeared at the entrances to the House floor.

https://nypost.com/2021/01/13/rep-boebert-clashes-with-capitol-police-over-metal-detector/

This wouldn't have affected the protesters in the slightest, so it must be a response to the danger presented by members of Congress. They're telling us we clearly can't trust them.

Members of Congress are explicitly telling us other members of Congress are not trustworthy. Some may have given inside information, either in advance reconnaissance or sharing information during the insurrection, or incited the insurrectionists whether strongly or lightly. I'm looking forward to hearing the results of the investigations.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 14, 2021, 08:29:51 PM
Speaking of reestablishing norms, in response to the mostly peaceful but terrifying events that led lawmakers to courageously cower in their chambers or bravely flee, metal detectors have suddenly appeared at the entrances to the House floor.

https://nypost.com/2021/01/13/rep-boebert-clashes-with-capitol-police-over-metal-detector/

This wouldn't have affected the protesters in the slightest, so it must be a response to the danger presented by members of Congress. They're telling us we clearly can't trust them.

Members of Congress are explicitly telling us other members of Congress are not trustworthy. Some may have given inside information, either in advance reconnaissance or sharing information during the insurrection, or incited the insurrectionists whether strongly or lightly. I'm looking forward to hearing the results of the investigations.

Uhhh...have you ever been to the House of Representatives???  Their are maps available, votes are scheduled and you are free to walk around with your Rep if they have time...my grandma could do 'advanced recon' over the damn internet and then spend a couple of hours touring the building to get an actual 'lay of the land' feel...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 14, 2021, 08:49:12 PM
I'm glad they went after Trump. Eventually, the Democrates are going to lose, and whoever is in power at the time should prosecute people like Maxine Waters for doing what Trump did. No should be above the law.

Maxine Waters extorted the President of Ukraine and incited an insurrection that killed people? Is this a Q conspiracy theory thing? I did find this, but it doesn't say what the citizen's arrest would have been for:
https://www.silive.com/news/2019/03/suspect-in-mob-boss-shooting-tried-to-make-citizens-arrest-of-mayor-elected-officials.html
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 14, 2021, 08:57:13 PM
Come on, Maxine Waters is a racist but she is no criminal master mind.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: consolcwby on January 14, 2021, 09:09:03 PM
Here's something interesting:
Evidence uncovered so far, including weapons and tactics seen on surveillance video, suggests a level of planning that has led investigators to believe the attack on the US Capitol was not just a protest that spiraled out of control.
from: https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/13/politics/capitol-riot-investigation/index.html
Also: https://twitter.com/paulsperry_/status/1349536597004460033

Tuesday, January 19: Transmittal of Article of Impeachment to the Senate:
It’s up to Nancy Pelosi to decide when to march the managers over to the Senate to “exhibit” the article and trigger a trial under the procedures set up in the upper chamber’s standing rules governing impeachment. 
  If the House managers show up the minute the Senate goes back into session, then an impeachment trial would begin at 1 p.m. the following day — which happens to be Inauguration Day. 
from: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/timeline-trump-second-impeachment.html

Federal procurement docs that show the Secret Service has hired a company called Showcall Security Services to help out with the inauguration in January. The company scored a $7.5 million contract for the job … and it sounds like they’ll be worth every dime of taxpayer money. Turns out, a division of Showcall, named Checkmate, is what’ll be deployed here — and a glance at their specialties shows why they cost a pretty penny. Checkmate boasts “temporary deployable security assets” that create “hardened perimeters,” which can stop vehicle-borne threats and attempted weapons hand-offs of people who get past checkpoints.
from:  https://www.tmz.com/2020/12/16/biden-inauguration-security-company-contract-services-checkmate-expensive/
Point:
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/01/caught-video-antifa-protester-john-sullivan-brags-posing-trump-supporter-breaking-window-us-capitol-building-riots/
The militant Black Lives Matter and Antifa activist John Sullivan’s discord shows the so-called “civil rights activist” reveling inside the U.S. Capitol on Jan.6 as he damaged federal property. Sullivan has maintained in multiple interviews that he regularly attends protests only to record what’s going on, but did not actively partake in the insurgence in Washington. Yet, in footage streamed to followers on his discord server, Sullivan, who uses the Discord name “Jayden X”, can be heard inciting violence from inside the U.S. Capitol and boasting about breaking a window. “If we don’t get in, we’re going to burn this shit down,” he gloats. “Let’s go! This shit’s ours. Fuck yeah. I can’t believe this is reality. We accomplished this shit. We did this shit together.” “I didn’t know I hit it [the window] that hard. No one got that on camera,” he continues. “Fuck the blue! Fuck the blue!” “It’s all fake,” he explains. “I learned that shit already – I am going to wear a Trump hat. I am going to wear a Trump hat. I bought one today,” he says. “I was wearing a Trump hat at the last Trump rally, at that Trump rally during the daytime because I was like, ‘nah, that shit ain’t happening, bro.

counter-point: https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/21_0112_plcy_dhs-china-sap.pdf
Page 7:
“Threats to our Elections and Other Critical Infrastructure Beijing intensified its influence efforts ahead of the 2020 U.S. elections to shape the U.S. policy environment, sway political figures it viewed as antithetical to its interests, and deflect and counter PRC-related criticisms. These pernicious efforts have the potential to deny Americans the fundamental right to make electoral decisions free from nefarious influence.”

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 14, 2021, 09:12:12 PM
As a side note, also this:

So something that applies only to the actual Rules of the House of Representatives, and not to speeches, bills or other House business, is ... not being applied to speeches, bills or other House business? Wow, the absolutely shocking ... consistency, I guess?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 14, 2021, 09:57:38 PM
Speaking of reestablishing norms, in response to the mostly peaceful but terrifying events that led lawmakers to courageously cower in their chambers or bravely flee, metal detectors have suddenly appeared at the entrances to the House floor.

https://nypost.com/2021/01/13/rep-boebert-clashes-with-capitol-police-over-metal-detector/

This wouldn't have affected the protesters in the slightest, so it must be a response to the danger presented by members of Congress. They're telling us we clearly can't trust them.

Members of Congress are explicitly telling us other members of Congress are not trustworthy. Some may have given inside information, either in advance reconnaissance or sharing information during the insurrection, or incited the insurrectionists whether strongly or lightly. I'm looking forward to hearing the results of the investigations.

Uhhh...have you ever been to the House of Representatives???  Their are maps available, votes are scheduled and you are free to walk around with your Rep if they have time...my grandma could do 'advanced recon' over the damn internet and then spend a couple of hours touring the building to get an actual 'lay of the land' feel...

And yet ... reports that insurrectionists found unlabelled offices. And reports of suspicious tours the day before, after months in a pandemic. Better to wait and see what the investigations show.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/13/politics/capitol-insurrection-insider-help/index.html
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: consolcwby on January 14, 2021, 10:08:38 PM
Speaking of reestablishing norms, in response to the mostly peaceful but terrifying events that led lawmakers to courageously cower in their chambers or bravely flee, metal detectors have suddenly appeared at the entrances to the House floor.

https://nypost.com/2021/01/13/rep-boebert-clashes-with-capitol-police-over-metal-detector/

This wouldn't have affected the protesters in the slightest, so it must be a response to the danger presented by members of Congress. They're telling us we clearly can't trust them.

Members of Congress are explicitly telling us other members of Congress are not trustworthy. Some may have given inside information, either in advance reconnaissance or sharing information during the insurrection, or incited the insurrectionists whether strongly or lightly. I'm looking forward to hearing the results of the investigations.

Uhhh...have you ever been to the House of Representatives???  Their are maps available, votes are scheduled and you are free to walk around with your Rep if they have time...my grandma could do 'advanced recon' over the damn internet and then spend a couple of hours touring the building to get an actual 'lay of the land' feel...

And yet ... reports that insurrectionists found unlabelled offices. And reports of suspicious tours the day before, after months in a pandemic. Better to wait and see what the investigations show.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/13/politics/capitol-insurrection-insider-help/index.html
Here. Read this and explain you PoS:
https://www.congress.gov/congressional-record/2017/01/06/house-section/article/H185-8
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 14, 2021, 10:49:12 PM
Speaking of reestablishing norms, in response to the mostly peaceful but terrifying events that led lawmakers to courageously cower in their chambers or bravely flee, metal detectors have suddenly appeared at the entrances to the House floor.

https://nypost.com/2021/01/13/rep-boebert-clashes-with-capitol-police-over-metal-detector/

This wouldn't have affected the protesters in the slightest, so it must be a response to the danger presented by members of Congress. They're telling us we clearly can't trust them.

Members of Congress are explicitly telling us other members of Congress are not trustworthy. Some may have given inside information, either in advance reconnaissance or sharing information during the insurrection, or incited the insurrectionists whether strongly or lightly. I'm looking forward to hearing the results of the investigations.

Uhhh...have you ever been to the House of Representatives???  Their are maps available, votes are scheduled and you are free to walk around with your Rep if they have time...my grandma could do 'advanced recon' over the damn internet and then spend a couple of hours touring the building to get an actual 'lay of the land' feel...

And yet ... reports that insurrectionists found unlabelled offices. And reports of suspicious tours the day before, after months in a pandemic. Better to wait and see what the investigations show.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/13/politics/capitol-insurrection-insider-help/index.html

So a few (D) lawmakers found the tours 'suspicious' after the fact, but not really enough to give a warning...or were those the 'warnings' that the FBI, Chuck, and Nancy ignored when they refused the capitol police requests for extra support...

...and really, an article that starts off that badly researched (Well, the second sentence at any rate)

from the article

Quote
One week after the deadly insurrection at the Capitol, there are still more questions than answers on whether any lawmakers or police assisted the pro-Trump rioters.
The idea of an insurrection is unheard of in modern US history, and the possibility that lawmakers or allies inside the Capitol were helping only contributes to the uncertainty and worry about the event and what's to come.


from Miriam Webster

Quote
insurrection noun

in·​sur·​rec·​tion |  ˌin(t)-sə-ˈrek-shən

Definition of insurrection

: an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/20/us/seattle-capitol-hill-chop-chaz-shooting/index.html

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Trond on January 14, 2021, 11:39:03 PM
As a side note, also this:

So something that applies only to the actual Rules of the House of Representatives, and not to speeches, bills or other House business, is ... not being applied to speeches, bills or other House business? Wow, the absolutely shocking ... inconsistency, I guess?

FIFY
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on January 15, 2021, 02:19:27 AM
LOL at insurrection.  I guess all that matters is who's windows get broken to go from a peaceful protest to insurrection. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: myleftnut on January 15, 2021, 02:33:57 AM
LOL at insurrection.  I guess all that matters is who's windows get broken to go from a peaceful protest to insurrection.

Ya too strong.  They didn’t fire any weapons as far as I know. Mob of imbeciles now facing federal charges is more like it.  The only thing I’m wondering is if Trump will pardon any of them or leave them under the bus. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 15, 2021, 02:55:54 PM
Speaking of reestablishing norms, in response to the mostly peaceful but terrifying events that led lawmakers to courageously cower in their chambers or bravely flee, metal detectors have suddenly appeared at the entrances to the House floor.

https://nypost.com/2021/01/13/rep-boebert-clashes-with-capitol-police-over-metal-detector/

This wouldn't have affected the protesters in the slightest, so it must be a response to the danger presented by members of Congress. They're telling us we clearly can't trust them.

Members of Congress are explicitly telling us other members of Congress are not trustworthy. Some may have given inside information, either in advance reconnaissance or sharing information during the insurrection, or incited the insurrectionists whether strongly or lightly. I'm looking forward to hearing the results of the investigations.
Or it could just be political theater stirring up drama to advance their political agendas.

Seems a lot more likely than some crazy conspiracy theory.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: consolcwby on January 15, 2021, 07:25:21 PM
Finally... the time... has come... the killing game begins once more!
Welcome to
                    DESPAIR

Welcome to the literal end of you and your childrens lives.
============================================================
All Liberal Democrats Are Terrorists:
Kevin Seefried was pictured with Antifa rioter Aaron Mostofsky, a registered Democrat, on the stairs in the US Capitol. Kevin Seefried and his son Hunter were arrested Thursday in Delaware. Kevin Seefried was pictured in the White House carrying a Confederate flag during the riots. Kevin and Hunter Seefried were within a group of people that had a confrontation with police at the U.S. Capitol and who confronted U.S. Capitol Police.
https://v1.nitrocdn.com/PtUefQrfncdsWOjilqcqdvGyQbUvpoWC/assets/desktop/optimized/rev-f43d399/media/f27ee9440856fde8f723b2f5f9736f74.ErwzkS4XMAAl6Ap

https://twitter.com/amuse/status/1349885882262761473
https://breaking911.com/breaking-blm-activist-arrested-for-siege-on-u-s-capitol/
John Earle Sullivan, a Black Lives Matter Activist and anti-Trumper, was charged by complaint with one count of knowingly entering or remaining in any restricted building or grounds without lawful authority, one count of violent entry and disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds, and one count of interfering with law enforcement engaged in the lawful performance of their official duties incident to and during the commission of civil disorder.

https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1350093180918771712

IMPEACHMENT OF TRUMP WAS AND IS INSURRECTION
https://twitter.com/paulsperry_/status/1349926655125544962

NO VOICE ~ NO FREEDOM ~ NO DEMOCRACY JUST WHAT YOU ALL WANTED
https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/1349853804590579713

YOU WANT CONSPIRACIES FAGGOTS? HERE'S ONE
After last week’s deadly assault on the U.S. Capitol by supporters of President Donald Trump, members of Congress are expressing something once unthinkable: that some of their own colleagues may be endangering their lives. Not in a rhetorical sense, but in a direct and immediate way.
“It’s the most poisonous I’ve ever seen,” Rep. Don Beyer, D-Va., said in an interview. “There’s the overall sense that maybe if some of them have guns — and likely the ones who are more into conspiracy theories and QAnon with the pedophilic satanic rings — are we safe from them?”
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/some-democrats-congress-are-worried-their-colleagues-might-kill-them-n1254319

NOW ITS TIME TO ROUND-UP AMERICANS! NOW ITS TIME! START WITH THESE PEOPLE: https://de.scribd.com/document/490496389/Battleground-Survey-Memo-01-12-21#fullscreen&from_embed

HERES YOU FUCKING THEORIES COME TO LIFE YOU LYING MURDERERS:

MEMORANDUM FOR THE SECRETARY OF STATE
THE SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY
THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
THE SECRETARY OF ENERGY
THE SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY
THE DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE
THE DIRECTOR OF THE CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY
SUBJECT:    Agency Cooperation with Attorney General’s Review of Intelligence Activities Relating to the 2016 Presidential Campaigns
By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, I hereby direct the following:
Section 1.  Agency Cooperation.   The Attorney General is currently conducting a review of intelligence activities relating to the campaigns in the 2016 Presidential election and certain related matters.  The heads of elements of the intelligence community, as defined in 50 U.S.C. 3003(4), and the heads of each department or agency that includes an element of the intelligence community shall promptly provide such assistance and information as the Attorney General may request in connection with that review.
Sec. 2.  Declassification and Downgrading.   With respect to any matter classified under Executive Order 13526 of December 29, 2009 (Classified National Security Information), the Attorney General may, by applying the standard set forth in either section 3.1(a) or section 3.1(d) of Executive Order 13526, declassify, downgrade, or direct the declassification or downgrading of information or intelligence that relates to the Attorney General’s review referred to in section 1 of this memorandum.  Before exercising this authority, the Attorney General should, to the extent he deems it practicable, consult with the head of the originating intelligence community element or department.  This authority is not delegable and applies notwithstanding any other authorization or limitation set forth in Executive Order 13526.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/memorandum-agency-cooperation-attorney-generals-review-intelligence-activities-relating-2016-presidential-campaigns/

COME ONE, COME ALL TO THE SHOW
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/calm-before-storm-peace-dc-inauguration-impeachment
The NG current Rules of engagement are “cleared to use deadly force.”
Razor Wire. All to protect a BIDEN VIRTUAL INAUGURATION?
*DO YOU SEE IT YET?*
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Catulle on January 15, 2021, 07:42:13 PM
Seems a lot more likely than some crazy conspiracy theory.
And as if on cue... *the very next post*
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 16, 2021, 08:14:12 PM
Speaking of reestablishing norms, in response to the mostly peaceful but terrifying events that led lawmakers to courageously cower in their chambers or bravely flee, metal detectors have suddenly appeared at the entrances to the House floor.

https://nypost.com/2021/01/13/rep-boebert-clashes-with-capitol-police-over-metal-detector/

This wouldn't have affected the protesters in the slightest, so it must be a response to the danger presented by members of Congress. They're telling us we clearly can't trust them.
Are they worried Lauren's going to whip out her piece and gank a few Dems?

So much projection.
Yes.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/some-democrats-congress-are-worried-their-colleagues-might-kill-them-n1254319

Each new election is more entertaining than the last.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 16, 2021, 11:38:07 PM
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/some-democrats-congress-are-worried-their-colleagues-might-kill-them-n1254319

Each new election is more entertaining than the last.

If only someone would rid me of this troublesome priest!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: consolcwby on January 16, 2021, 11:41:07 PM
Speaking of reestablishing norms, in response to the mostly peaceful but terrifying events that led lawmakers to courageously cower in their chambers or bravely flee, metal detectors have suddenly appeared at the entrances to the House floor.

https://nypost.com/2021/01/13/rep-boebert-clashes-with-capitol-police-over-metal-detector/

This wouldn't have affected the protesters in the slightest, so it must be a response to the danger presented by members of Congress. They're telling us we clearly can't trust them.
Are they worried Lauren's going to whip out her piece and gank a few Dems?

So much projection.
Yes.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/some-democrats-congress-are-worried-their-colleagues-might-kill-them-n1254319

Each new election is more entertaining than the last.
Now that democrats have complete power in the House, Senate, White House, and Supreme Court... You expect more ELECTIONS?!
To even suggest we EVER had elections... That's SEDITIOUS! What are you a racist ass-hat misogynist pig?! YOU LYING TERRORIST!
WE NEVER EVER HAD ELECTIONS BEFORE! AND WE NEVER WILL!!!
WE LIVE IN UTOPIA! IT WAS ALWAYS A UTOPIA!!
TO SUGGEST ANYTHING ELSE IS TREASON!!!!
(consider yourself reported, mister/miss/mz/xyx!) :P
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: consolcwby on January 16, 2021, 11:45:17 PM
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/some-democrats-congress-are-worried-their-colleagues-might-kill-them-n1254319

Each new election is more entertaining than the last.

If only someone would rid me of this troublesome priest!
Wha-wha-what?!
My current PC Class is: Ultimate Despair
and you want me to change it to... two sexually suspect knights, just back from the crusades?!
But I always play as two sexually suspect knights!
oh, man!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 16, 2021, 11:45:40 PM
Speaking of reestablishing norms, in response to the mostly peaceful but terrifying events that led lawmakers to courageously cower in their chambers or bravely flee, metal detectors have suddenly appeared at the entrances to the House floor.

https://nypost.com/2021/01/13/rep-boebert-clashes-with-capitol-police-over-metal-detector/

This wouldn't have affected the protesters in the slightest, so it must be a response to the danger presented by members of Congress. They're telling us we clearly can't trust them.
Are they worried Lauren's going to whip out her piece and gank a few Dems?

So much projection.
Yes.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/some-democrats-congress-are-worried-their-colleagues-might-kill-them-n1254319

Each new election is more entertaining than the last.
Now that democrats have complete power in the House, Senate, White House, and Supreme Court... You expect more ELECTIONS?!
To even suggest we EVER had elections... That's SEDITIOUS! What are you a racist ass-hat misogynist pig?! YOU LYING TERRORIST!
WE NEVER EVER HAD ELECTIONS BEFORE! AND WE NEVER WILL!!!
WE LIVE IN UTOPIA! IT WAS ALWAYS A UTOPIA!!
TO SUGGEST ANYTHING ELSE IS TREASON!!!!
(consider yourself reported, mister/miss/mz/xyx!) :P

Greetings!

"Racist ass-hat misogynist  pig!" ;D *Laughing* Fucking hilarious, Consolcwby!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: consolcwby on January 16, 2021, 11:47:26 PM
Speaking of reestablishing norms, in response to the mostly peaceful but terrifying events that led lawmakers to courageously cower in their chambers or bravely flee, metal detectors have suddenly appeared at the entrances to the House floor.

https://nypost.com/2021/01/13/rep-boebert-clashes-with-capitol-police-over-metal-detector/

This wouldn't have affected the protesters in the slightest, so it must be a response to the danger presented by members of Congress. They're telling us we clearly can't trust them.
Are they worried Lauren's going to whip out her piece and gank a few Dems?

So much projection.
Yes.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/some-democrats-congress-are-worried-their-colleagues-might-kill-them-n1254319

Each new election is more entertaining than the last.
Now that democrats have complete power in the House, Senate, White House, and Supreme Court... You expect more ELECTIONS?!
To even suggest we EVER had elections... That's SEDITIOUS! What are you a racist ass-hat misogynist pig?! YOU LYING TERRORIST!
WE NEVER EVER HAD ELECTIONS BEFORE! AND WE NEVER WILL!!!
WE LIVE IN UTOPIA! IT WAS ALWAYS A UTOPIA!!
TO SUGGEST ANYTHING ELSE IS TREASON!!!!
(consider yourself reported, mister/miss/mz/xyx!) :P

Greetings!

"Racist ass-hat misogynist  pig!" ;D *Laughing* Fucking hilarious, Consolcwby!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Well, I thought so...
Until I had to change my class to two sexually suspect knights!
 ;)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Elfdart on January 17, 2021, 06:51:18 PM
Was my link broken?

A word search on the page you linked doesn't turn up a single mention of Jews.

You lying putz.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 17, 2021, 07:23:29 PM
Was my link broken?

A word search on the page you linked doesn't turn up a single mention of Jews.

You lying putz.

Because they can use it for any stupid idiot not just Jews, dumb ass.

Loosen up your beaner.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: DocJones on January 17, 2021, 07:30:30 PM
Are they worried Lauren's going to whip out her piece and gank a few Dems?

So much projection.
I wouldn't worry about any other armed Congressman.
But... Lauren is a QTard.  Anything could happen.
She might even shoot herself is it was in Q's plan.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Elfdart on January 17, 2021, 09:02:25 PM
All Liberal Democrats Are Terrorists:
Kevin Seefried was pictured with Antifa rioter Aaron Mostofsky, a registered Democrat, on the stairs in the US Capitol. Kevin Seefried and his son Hunter were arrested Thursday in Delaware. Kevin Seefried was pictured in the White House carrying a Confederate flag during the riots. Kevin and Hunter Seefried were within a group of people that had a confrontation with police at the U.S. Capitol and who confronted U.S. Capitol Police.
https://v1.nitrocdn.com/PtUefQrfncdsWOjilqcqdvGyQbUvpoWC/assets/desktop/optimized/rev-f43d399/media/f27ee9440856fde8f723b2f5f9736f74.ErwzkS4XMAAl6Ap

Feel free to post evidence that Mostofsky is a member of Antifa. Because so far, you haven't shown Jack Shit to back up your claims.

Quote
https://twitter.com/amuse/status/1349885882262761473
https://breaking911.com/breaking-blm-activist-arrested-for-siege-on-u-s-capitol/
John Earle Sullivan, a Black Lives Matter Activist and anti-Trumper, was charged by complaint with one count of knowingly entering or remaining in any restricted building or grounds without lawful authority, one count of violent entry and disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds, and one count of interfering with law enforcement engaged in the lawful performance of their official duties incident to and during the commission of civil disorder.

https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1350093180918771712

Bullshit. Sullivan has been shunned by BLM since last summer when, as this article (https://thegrayzone.com/2021/01/12/chaos-agent-right-wing-us-Capitol-riot-black-lives-matter/) points out, it's pretty obvious that he's either a lunatic who gets off at stirring up violence, or an agent provocateur working for the cops (or possibly both):

Quote
Sean Michael Love of Blackhouse News said Sullivan’s history of being swiftly freed from police custody was a source of longstanding suspicion for BLM activists: “He always gets released and usually much quicker than everybody else. And that’s just, you know, when you see that pattern, you wonder if there’s something else going on.”

When I asked him directly if he had ever worked with law enforcement or been asked to collaborate, Sullivan angrily denied the allegations.

However, his videotaped police detention and his subsequent release have only deepened the sense of suspicion about his motives and agenda. Back in Utah, his brother, James, said lawmakers and activists across the spectrum are united in seeking to prevent him from destabilizing the political climate.

“We have almost a synergy here in Utah,” James Sullivan reflected. “And John coming back to disrupt that is something that even [elected] representatives have come out against. And the Democrats do not want him here. Like, we have a unique political climate here in Utah. There’s no real chance of violence or anything like that here – unless John comes back and starts igniting his group.”

Quote
IMPEACHMENT OF TRUMP WAS AND IS INSURRECTION
https://twitter.com/paulsperry_/status/1349926655125544962

Riiiiiiight. And when Timothy McVeigh was arrested, it was kidnapping, right? Apparently, neither you nor that twitter fucktard can tell the difference between an act that is not only legal, but one that the highest law in the land (the Constitution) lays out the rules for carrying out (impeachment); and one that is NOT allowed by the Constitution:

Quote from: Article 1, clause 15
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions.


Quote
YOU WANT CONSPIRACIES FAGGOTS? HERE'S ONE
After last week’s deadly assault on the U.S. Capitol by supporters of President Donald Trump, members of Congress are expressing something once unthinkable: that some of their own colleagues may be endangering their lives. Not in a rhetorical sense, but in a direct and immediate way.
“It’s the most poisonous I’ve ever seen,” Rep. Don Beyer, D-Va., said in an interview. “There’s the overall sense that maybe if some of them have guns — and likely the ones who are more into conspiracy theories and QAnon with the pedophilic satanic rings — are we safe from them?”
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/some-democrats-congress-are-worried-their-colleagues-might-kill-them-n1254319

The fact that a Q-tard congresswoman threw a fit when metal detectors were installed tells me there might be something to this one.

You are one dumb twat.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: consolcwby on January 17, 2021, 09:20:56 PM

The fact that a Q-tard congresswoman threw a fit when metal detectors were installed tells me there might be something to this one.

You are one dumb twat.


Your DESPAIR is duly noted!
Welcome to the KILLING GAME!
Puh-pu-pu-pu-pu-pu-pu!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 17, 2021, 09:27:11 PM
The fact that a Q-tard congresswoman threw a fit when metal detectors were installed tells me there might be something to this one.
Anyone who complains when their civil liberties are infringed is obviously guilty.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: consolcwby on January 17, 2021, 09:50:01 PM
Well, well, well! It seems soooo many posters here are either in DENIAL or in DESPAIR! Let's see WHO is correct HERE: LETS PUSH THE DESPAIR BUTTON ON THIS, SHALL WE?
(http://gamingtrend.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/10656380_10202458996265614_1632031810_n.jpg)
===============================
The FED & Deep State's economic plan failed before it began. The plan they are pushing is the same old garbage, it’s about destroying jobs while making it look like people are making more money, this will make more people dependent on the government. Trump has done the complete opposite and he is showing the people. The direction is clear. The Deep State is now trapped in the largest sting operation. Everything that is being implemented is not for their protection. Optics are very important. Trump will act like he is not involved in the operation. While the events happen Trump will be flying on AirForce One. The MSM/SM will be none the wiser because this is tradition. The insurgency is real, the news is fake. It’s time to take back the country.

Out with the old ~ TRUMP'S ACCOMPLISHMENTS: https://www.whitehouse.gov/trump-administration-accomplishments/
Instead of 2-for-1, we eliminated 8 old regulations for every 1 new regulation adopted. Provided the average American household an extra $3,100 every year. Americans now have more money in their pockets!
In with the new ~ BIDEN'S PLAN: https://www.theepochtimes.com/minimum-wage-mandate-in-bidens-pandemic-relief-bill-estimated-to-wipe-out-1-3-million-jobs_3658364.html
President-elect Joe Biden’s plan for pandemic relief contains a $15 minimum wage mandate which Congress has estimated would lead to the loss of 1.3 million jobs. According to a July 2019 estimate by the Congressional Budget Office, raising the federal minimum wage to $15 would lead to the loss of 1.3 million jobs while boosting the wages of 17 million workers! WTG MIGHTY JOE WHITEY!!!

INSURRECTION?! Awww. I thought I was a THEORIST: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/01/leaked-zoom-call-shows-us-federal-employees-conspiring-sabotage-trump-administration-video/
A leaked Zoom call has surfaced online showing a number of US Government officials discussing how to sabotage the Trump Administration. They admit doing this through leaking or withholding information. The group even praised a statement by President Harry S. Truman where he said:
“I thought I was the president, but when it comes to these bureaucrats, I can’t do a damned thing.  So the bottom line in this is that we all as ordinary people and as federal workers have power."
The facilitator is Sarah Starrett who works as an attorney for the Dept. of Labor, which is a conflict of interest. Those in the know say the video comes from Millie Weaver and Tore who have people embedded. This comes from the work they’re doing to help take down these saboteurs. These people were proud to call what they were doing – a coup. And at least one of the employees said he leaked information to the press regularly and anonymously.

NOW SCIENCE SHOWS LOCKDOWNS WILL KILL YOU! https://electionwiz.com/2021/01/17/research-890000-americans-may-die-due-to-coivd-lockdowns/
A new working paper from US National Bureau of Economic Research predicts disastrous long-term effects of the COVID-19 lockdowns. The paper, authored by Francesco Bianchi from Duke University, Dongho Song of Johns Hopkins University, and Giada Bianchi of Harvard Medical School, examines the long-term consequences of the COVID-19 lockdowns. The paper predicts an excess death of 890,000 Americans over the next 15 years due to the unemployment caused by COIVD lockdowns.

WHUHAN VIRUS~CHAN IN DEPTH: https://www.state.gov/fact-sheet-activity-at-the-wuhan-institute-of-virology/
A new fact sheet from the U.S. State Department highlights the military ties, secret nature, and suspicious research occurring at the Wuhan Insitute of Virology.
Believed by many to be the source of the virus, the Wuhan-based laboratory was highlighted in a January 15th document entitled “Fact Sheet: Activity at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.” Including “previously undisclosed information,” the document highlights three areas of interest: “Illnesses inside the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV),” “Research at the WIV,” and “Secret military activity at the WIV.”

BAKED ALASKAN: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/01/former-buzzfeed-employee-trump-hater-baked-alaska-endorsed-democrat-president-gets-arrested-storming-us-capitol/
Former Buzzfeed employee Tim Gionet, better known online as ‘Baked Alaska,’ was arrested Friday for illegally entering the US Capitol building on January 6th. The former Buzzfeed video creator live-streamed himself inside the Capitol on DLive, a popular streaming platform. Numerous Buzzfeed videos that Baked Alaska starred in are still posted on Buzzfeed’s YouTube channel, including one video titled “Lumbersexual Hunks Try Chainshaws.” Although Buzzfeed is aggressively trying to distance itself from their past connection to Baked Alaska  ” Baked Alaska endorsed far-left Democrat Andrew Yang for President in 2019, and even filmed a rap music video for a song called “Yang Gang Anthem” that he made about Andrew Yang. I also warned poor Andrew. Then he died. (hint hint - it wasn't Yang, but another Andrew! Scared ya, didnti?)

BIDEN'S FOLLOWING: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/01/joe-biden-holds-inaugural-celebration-youtube-24k-tune-channel-trump-hold-youtube-speech/
Joe Biden held an Inaugural Celebration on Saturday night. Several Hollywood stars participated in the event. And… Only 24,000 tuned in to the “celebration” on his YouTube page. Three hours after the event played live on his page! But we’re supposed to believe this guy won 81 million votes? President Donald Trump delivered remarks this week at the Trump Wall at The Alamo. OVER 804,000 watched the event on Right Side Broadcasting Network LIVE!

THE LEFT'S NEW CONSPIRACY THEORY: https://twitter.com/amuse/status/1350800988496687106
BUT WHAT THEY ARE NOW DOING: https://www.zerohedge.com/political/it-begins-armed-boogaloo-members-begin-marching-state-capitol-buildings
So what are we witnessing? 125 Air National Guard aircraft flew 134 sorties in the last three days. They airlifted into DC 2.3 million pounds of cargo from around the nation
The volume of aircraft, personnel, and equipment is unprecedented. They’re even flying in 80 Guardsmen aboard a KC-135 Stratotanker into DC from…wait for it…ALASKA.
All for an inauguration!

GOOD LUCK EVERYONE! LET THE KILLING GAME BEGIN!!!
PUH-PU-PU-PU-PU-PU-PU-PU!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 18, 2021, 02:06:42 PM
So a few (D) lawmakers found the tours 'suspicious' after the fact, but not really enough to give a warning...or were those the 'warnings' that the FBI, Chuck, and Nancy ignored when they refused the capitol police requests for extra support...

The tours were apparently reported on January 5th. The House and Senate Sergeants at Arms and the Capitol Police chief have resigned for failing to prepare for the insurrection. Chuck Schumer as Minority Leader in the Senate would have even less authority than Mitch McConnell, the Senate Majority Leader, so why single him out? None of the Congress members have direct authority; they would have to pass a law and get it signed by the President to have ordered extra support. Rather, it was executive branch agencies who declined to provide any additional support, even when the insurrection was under way.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 18, 2021, 02:11:19 PM
So something that applies only to the actual Rules of the House of Representatives, and not to speeches, bills or other House business, is ... not being applied to speeches, bills or other House business? Wow, the absolutely shocking ... consistency, I guess?

FIFY

Changed it back to the correct information, since Trond still lacks reading comprehension. Given X that applies only to Y and that does not apply to Z, not applying X to Z is consistent.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 18, 2021, 02:22:08 PM
LOL at insurrection.  I guess all that matters is who's windows get broken to go from a peaceful protest to insurrection.

Insurrectionists wanted to kill the Vice President and legislators.

This was serious, but exactly how serious is not fully known. Let's wait for the results of the investigations that are just starting.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 18, 2021, 02:54:15 PM
It occurs to me that a legitimately elected President would not need 30,000 soldiers to make sure that he gets sworn in.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 18, 2021, 03:08:16 PM
It occurs to me that a legitimately elected President would not need 30,000 soldiers to make sure that he gets sworn in.

It seems advisable to have those troops there to protect the current Vice President, who was just recently the target for assassination by violent insurrectionists incited by the current President.

Happily, the amount of election disinformation has decreased substantially since Twitter banned Trump; the R0 value may finally be below 1.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 18, 2021, 03:11:21 PM
It occurs to me that a legitimately elected President would not need 30,000 soldiers to make sure that he gets sworn in.

It seems advisable to have those troops there to protect the current Vice President, who was just recently the target for assassination by violent insurrectionists incited by the current President.

Happily, the amount of election disinformation has decreased substantially since Twitter banned Trump; the R0 value may finally be below 1.

Shit man, there were assassins targeting the Vice President?

Why have there been no stories about it, that sounds like it would be big news.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Elfdart on January 18, 2021, 03:13:11 PM
The fact that a Q-tard congresswoman threw a fit when metal detectors were installed tells me there might be something to this one.
Anyone who complains when their civil liberties are infringed is obviously guilty.

What bullshit. Anyone who boards a plane or sets foot in a courthouse has to go through metal detectors. No one's rights are being infringed.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 18, 2021, 03:41:54 PM
LOL at insurrection.  I guess all that matters is who's windows get broken to go from a peaceful protest to insurrection.

Insurrectionists wanted to kill the Vice President and legislators.

This was serious, but exactly how serious is not fully known. Let's wait for the results of the investigations that are just starting.

It was serious....?

How many were armed?  How many people did they kill? 

I certainly hope the FBI investigates as thoroughly as they did all of the people who said they wanted to kill Donald Trump over the last 5 years.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 18, 2021, 04:48:49 PM
Shit man, there were assassins targeting the Vice President?

Why have there been no stories about it, that sounds like it would be big news.

There were stories, video and even charges about it.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 18, 2021, 05:31:55 PM
It occurs to me that a legitimately elected President would not need 30,000 soldiers to make sure that he gets sworn in.

You don't think that in any country, the minority would try to take over the government by force? That seems incredibly naive to me. The vast majority of dictatorships and authoritarian governments were perpetrated by force.

As abolitionist Wendell Phillips wrote, "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty". Expecting the enemies of freedom to sit idly by, and not use force, is foolishness.


If Trump supporters want proof that the election isn't legitimate - then they should be collecting together and validating evidence, rather than just waving their hands at Twitter. They should be working with Trump-supporting prosecutors to charge people involved in districts they control. Defrauding election results is a criminal act, and if it exists, it can and should still be prosecuted, even if the new administration takes office. On these forums, it seems consolcwby is the only one still arguing to show how the election was fraud. While I disagree with him on a lot, on this point, I think on that point, he shows integrity.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 18, 2021, 05:54:16 PM
The fact that a Q-tard congresswoman threw a fit when metal detectors were installed tells me there might be something to this one.
Anyone who complains when their civil liberties are infringed is obviously guilty.

What bullshit. Anyone who boards a plane or sets foot in a courthouse has to go through metal detectors. No one's rights are being infringed.
One civil rights violation can't be used to justify another civil rights violation.

Plus, the TSA is completely useless. It's civil rights abuse under the guise of security theatre.

https://reason.com/2015/06/03/the-tsa-is-useless-but-have-you-seen-the/
http://gmancasefile.blogspot.com/2012/01/tsa-fail.html
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/137184
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ex-tsa-head-kip-hawley-airport-security-should-focus-on-bombs-and-behavior-not-knives-and-liquids/
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 18, 2021, 06:39:23 PM
Shit man, there were assassins targeting the Vice President?

Why have there been no stories about it, that sounds like it would be big news.

There were stories, video and even charges about it.

Thank goodness the MAGA crowd was there to protect the Vice President.

With the firepower that they have there is no way any assassins could succeed.

It occurs to me that a legitimately elected President would not need 30,000 soldiers to make sure that he gets sworn in.

You don't think that in any country, the minority would try to take over the government by force? That seems incredibly naive to me. The vast majority of dictatorships and authoritarian governments were perpetrated by force.

As abolitionist Wendell Phillips wrote, "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty". Expecting the enemies of freedom to sit idly by, and not use force, is foolishness.

Do I think that a minority could rule a country with military backing?

You would probably need around 30, 000 troops to pull that kind of stunt off.

Historically even during the Civil War the legitimate President did not need that kind of protection.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: consolcwby on January 18, 2021, 08:57:38 PM
THANK YOU MR. KIM!
Your DESPAIR is noted and is appreciated!
I really wish all of you good luck! If anyone wants to know more about me, here's a link to one of my favorite science fiction stories by my favorite author:
http://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/wp-content/uploads/Robert-A.-Heinlein-All-You-Zombies.pdf
Please take the time to read it before you all disappear into the ether. Good luck to all!
==============================================
CALL OF DUTY:
https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1351261182389350402

Two thousand National Guard troops in Washington, D.C. to protect the Biden inauguration this week have been sworn in as Special Deputy U.S. Marshals.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/01/biden-inaugural-two-thousand-national-guard-troops-d-c-sworn-special-deputy-u-s-marshals/
https://twitter.com/USMarshalsHQ/status/1351167667479175176
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/3053
United States marshals and their deputies may carry firearms and may make arrests without warrant for any offense against the United States committed in their presence, or for any felony cognizable under the laws of the United States if they have reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested has committed or is committing such felony.

METAL GEAR SOLID: https://youtu.be/jIYBod0ge3Y
Now we know that Pence spoke to the 10th mountain infrantry division. AH-64 w/ obvious PUNISHER insignia on engine nacelle during VP Pence visit w/ 10th Mountain Infantry Division. Pence just ended his address to the 10th Mountain with this: “The best is yet to come.” https://youtu.be/6miaTf1gF4g
(https://v1.nitrocdn.com/PtUefQrfncdsWOjilqcqdvGyQbUvpoWC/assets/static/optimized/rev-f43d399/system/media_attachments/files/062/285/558/small/e5828606592b800a.png)
...

https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DA-21-73A1.pdf
The Enforcement Bureau (Bureau) of the Federal Communications Commission issues this Enforcement Advisory to remind licensees in the Amateur Radio Service, as well as licensees and operators in the Personal Radio Services, that the Commission prohibits the use of radios in those services to commit or facilitate criminal acts. The Bureau has become aware of discussions on social media platforms suggesting that certain radio services regulated by the Commission may be an alternative to social media platforms for groups to communicate and coordinate future activities. The Bureau recognizes that these services can be used for a wide range of permitted purposes, including speech that is protected under the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. Amateur and Personal Radio Services, however, may not be used to commit or facilitate crimes. Specifically, the Bureau reminds amateur licensees that they are prohibited from transmitting “communications intended to facilitate a criminal act” or “messages encoded for the purpose of obscuring their meaning.”1 Likewise, individuals operating radios in the Personal Radio Services, a category that includes Citizens Band radios, Family Radio Service walkie-talkies, and General Mobile Radio Service, are prohibited from using those radios “in connection with any activity which is against Federal, State or local law.”2 Individuals using radios in the Amateur or Personal Radio Services in this manner may be subject to severe penalties, including significant fines, seizure of the offending equipment, and, in some cases, criminal prosecution.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/01/breaking-dni-ratcliffe-releases-report-showing-china-interfered-2020-election-cia-management-pressured-analysts-not-report/

(https://v1.nitrocdn.com/PtUefQrfncdsWOjilqcqdvGyQbUvpoWC/assets/static/optimized/rev-f43d399/system/media_attachments/files/062/243/598/small/a95c2cb4b6e10f2e.jpg)
CONCOMMS:
=========
US defense law of war
11.3,  11.4,  11.6

"I know where I came from—but where did all you zombies come from?"
fnorf.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on January 18, 2021, 10:20:15 PM
Even CNN has reported that the same Gov agencies talking about “kidnappings and assassinations of VP + others” have now retracted that claim and said “whoops, ignore that, never mind”
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on January 19, 2021, 05:14:20 AM
Greetings!

Well, concerning 2020 Election fraud, irregularities, and corruption--what is the point in me, personally, arguing it here? People either already understand that fraud and corruption occurred, and is present. People that do not agree that there has been fraud and corruption are not going to be suddenly swayed into seeing the light now because of anything I have said.

As a Racap--

Testimonies and Affidavits--you either believe they are on the whole worthy and should be investigated thoroughly, or not. Several hundred, perhaps more than 1,000 witnesses signing affidavits supporting their testimonies of witnessing fraud and corruption.

Mathematical Analysis--Experts have claimed that Biden's win is impossible. Some here disagree with that assessment.

Computer Analysis--Lots of problems have been identified with algorithms and programs, etc. Not my wheelhouse, but people are screaming that there were lots of problems.

Legal and Constitutional Violations--Various lawyers and experts have pointed out how governors, secretaries of state, attorney generals, in various states have violated their own Constitutions and the US Constitution by changing voting laws and procedures--when it has been stipulated that ONLY a state legislature has such authority.

Election Analysis--bellweather counties being historically won--states like Ohio and Florida being predictors of victory--downballot voting, coattails, all of that supports Trump being the victor. Biden couldn't fill a bus with supporters, while Trump attracted stadiums full of people, even in the fucking rain! Campaign enthusiasm, and so on. According to Biden supporters, none of that matters. Really? Biden is the greatest political genius of American history, winning the Presidency by never leaving his fucking basement. Who'd think that was the winning strategy against a President that fills stadiums full of supporters, and is out campaigning 16 hours a day, five and six days a week?

Election Events--the whole six states stopping their voting procedures in the night, only to continue later on, and experience massive voting dumps where Biden who was behind Trump by hundreds and hundreds of thousands of votes--somehow, in the morning, Biden comes out as the winner. In each and every battleground state that he needed to win the election. How convenient!

So, there isn't any point to trying to argue about it with people that are determined to believe there was "No fraud, no corruption, nothing to see here." Since no one here are government officials employed or lawyers involved directly, everyone ultimately argues based on their opinion. People either believe there is a sufficient preponderance of evidence presented in the public arena showing fraud and corruption, or you don't. It is that simple.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 19, 2021, 08:20:31 AM
And just to pile on: no court has actually ruled on the merits of the lawsuits made regarding the election. Yes, the suits have been repeatedly thrown out -- on procedural or standing grounds, NOT on a review of the evidence.

So yeah, the whole 'oh that's been disproven' is a bald faced lie and people who say it should feel bad about themselves.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: KingCheops on January 19, 2021, 10:58:07 AM
And just to pile on: no court has actually ruled on the merits of the lawsuits made regarding the election. Yes, the suits have been repeatedly thrown out -- on procedural or standing grounds, NOT on a review of the evidence.

So yeah, the whole 'oh that's been disproven' is a bald faced lie and people who say it should feel bad about themselves.

The Sean Parnell suit in PA was especially hilarious.  He specifically waited until after the election because prior to the election there would have been no harm from the unlawful change to the election and therefore no remedy.  He brings it after harm is caused and the judge is like "why didn't you bring this up before the election?"  People were vocal about it before the election and were told "Covid will KILL everyone who goes to a polling station you murdering white supremacist!"

To those unfamiliar.  The "covid changes" to the election process in PA violated the procedures required by the Constitution of Pennsylvania to change the election processes.  So they literally broke the law in order to make it possible to commit election fraud.  That's how desperately the NeoCons and NeoLibs wanted DJT out.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 19, 2021, 11:27:04 AM
And just to pile on: no court has actually ruled on the merits of the lawsuits made regarding the election. Yes, the suits have been repeatedly thrown out -- on procedural or standing grounds, NOT on a review of the evidence.

So yeah, the whole 'oh that's been disproven' is a bald faced lie and people who say it should feel bad about themselves.

The Sean Parnell suit in PA was especially hilarious.  He specifically waited until after the election because prior to the election there would have been no harm from the unlawful change to the election and therefore no remedy.  He brings it after harm is caused and the judge is like "why didn't you bring this up before the election?"  People were vocal about it before the election and were told "Covid will KILL everyone who goes to a polling station you murdering white supremacist!"

To those unfamiliar.  The "covid changes" to the election process in PA violated the procedures required by the Constitution of Pennsylvania to change the election processes.  So they literally broke the law in order to make it possible to commit election fraud.  That's how desperately the NeoCons and NeoLibs wanted DJT out.

I think my personal favorite was the "It wasn't enough to change the outcome" based on a sampling of ballots in the precinct/district/area.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 19, 2021, 12:21:51 PM
Well, concerning 2020 Election fraud, irregularities, and corruption--what is the point in me, personally, arguing it here? People either already understand that fraud and corruption occurred, and is present. People that do not agree that there has been fraud and corruption are not going to be suddenly swayed into seeing the light now because of anything I have said.

Well, what's the point of any of us talking here on this forum about any topic? If we're going to discuss anything, I think the evidence of election fraud is the most critical thing to discuss. Sure, there are a lot of people utterly fixed and unwilling to even entertain changing their preconceptions, but there are at least a few posters who won't change their whole outlook, but are willing to concede or modify some points.


As a Racap--

Testimonies and Affidavits--you either believe they are on the whole worthy and should be investigated thoroughly, or not. Several hundred, perhaps more than 1,000 witnesses signing affidavits supporting their testimonies of witnessing fraud and corruption.

What's telling here is that you paint this as black and white - either believe all the witnesses, or don't. This is an exact parallel to the liberal mantra "believe all women" -- as "believe all fraud". But I don't buy either of these. Witnesses can potentially lie, and their credibility needs to be decided on a case-by-case basis. Having corroborating evidence is crucial as well. I believe they should be investigated, and indeed they *have* been investigated. Their testimony has been given in court, and in some cases repeated their testimony in front of special legislative committee sessions.

Just citing the *number* of witnesses isn't convincing, especially when you don't even know that number. What matters is how believable any of them are. The eyewitness I have seen the most of is Melissa Carone, though I've scanned a number of others. If there is a more credible witness than her, then I'd be open to look up more about it. What I've seen is even less credible witnesses, including an *anonymous email* read in court.


Mathematical Analysis--Experts have claimed that Biden's win is impossible. Some here disagree with that assessment.

Computer Analysis--Lots of problems have been identified with algorithms and programs, etc. Not my wheelhouse, but people are screaming that there were lots of problems.

The three I'm most familiar with are Keshavarz-Nia, Ramsland, and Cicchetti. The first two, though, had blatant errors that one doesn't need to be an expert at all in to break. They referred to fraud in *non-existent places* like Edison County MI (for Keshavarz-Nia) and many townships like Audubon or Monticello in Michigan (for Ramsland). You can easily confirm those yourself by reading the testimony. Cicchetti's at least doesn't make that blatant an error, but it is still based on unsupportable assumptions.

Are you backing any of these three? Or is there some other expert that you think is convincing?

Math and science aren't successful because experts are personally infallible. They are convincing because the *process* of academic investigation means having peer review, publishing a full account of your sources and data, and having independent confirmation.


Legal and Constitutional Violations--Various lawyers and experts have pointed out how governors, secretaries of state, attorney generals, in various states have violated their own Constitutions and the US Constitution by changing voting laws and procedures--when it has been stipulated that ONLY a state legislature has such authority.

Election Analysis--bellweather counties being historically won--states like Ohio and Florida being predictors of victory--downballot voting, coattails, all of that supports Trump being the victor. Biden couldn't fill a bus with supporters, while Trump attracted stadiums full of people, even in the fucking rain! Campaign enthusiasm, and so on. According to Biden supporters, none of that matters. Really? Biden is the greatest political genius of American history, winning the Presidency by never leaving his fucking basement.

On election analysis, that's not analysis - that's feeling. I've heard much the same from many liberal friends. "How could *anyone* vote for Trump? He's so horrible!" I think people get so locked into their own partisan viewpoint, they can't hear anything else. Trump is a highly divisive candidate. He has some extreme die-hard supporters, but he also has a lot of haters. I don't think Biden is a genius - I think overwhelmingly, Biden voters were voting *against* Trump rather than *for* Biden.

The election was by an extremely close margin - far closer than anyone could predict simply by feel. And in both 2016 and 2020, the popular vote has gone against Trump by a greater margin.


Election Events--the whole six states stopping their voting procedures in the night, only to continue later on, and experience massive voting dumps where Biden who was behind Trump by hundreds and hundreds of thousands of votes--somehow, in the morning, Biden comes out as the winner. In each and every battleground state that he needed to win the election. How convenient!

I don't even see the logic here. If there were fraud going on, why would they wait until a day later to start committing fraud? The most *convenient* thing would be to have those hundreds of thousands of votes distributed throughout the process. To intentionally wait seems like some sort of Riddler type supervillain move, where they deliberately wanted to leave a clue for others to notice.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 19, 2021, 12:32:24 PM
And just to pile on: no court has actually ruled on the merits of the lawsuits made regarding the election. Yes, the suits have been repeatedly thrown out -- on procedural or standing grounds, NOT on a review of the evidence.

So yeah, the whole 'oh that's been disproven' is a bald faced lie and people who say it should feel bad about themselves.

If anyone claims the Texas Attorney General's lawsuit was determined based on evidence, then that was a mistake. However, a number of the other lawsuits *did* have a review of the evidence. That's why we've seen, for example, Melissa Carone's give testimony - because her testimony was being heard in court, and later before a legislative committee. Wikipedia has a breakdown of the various lawsuits, which includes judgements on evidence:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-election_lawsuits_related_to_the_2020_United_States_presidential_election
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: KingCheops on January 19, 2021, 01:06:17 PM
And just to pile on: no court has actually ruled on the merits of the lawsuits made regarding the election. Yes, the suits have been repeatedly thrown out -- on procedural or standing grounds, NOT on a review of the evidence.

So yeah, the whole 'oh that's been disproven' is a bald faced lie and people who say it should feel bad about themselves.

The Sean Parnell suit in PA was especially hilarious.  He specifically waited until after the election because prior to the election there would have been no harm from the unlawful change to the election and therefore no remedy.  He brings it after harm is caused and the judge is like "why didn't you bring this up before the election?"  People were vocal about it before the election and were told "Covid will KILL everyone who goes to a polling station you murdering white supremacist!"

To those unfamiliar.  The "covid changes" to the election process in PA violated the procedures required by the Constitution of Pennsylvania to change the election processes.  So they literally broke the law in order to make it possible to commit election fraud.  That's how desperately the NeoCons and NeoLibs wanted DJT out.

I think my personal favorite was the "It wasn't enough to change the outcome" based on a sampling of ballots in the precinct/district/area.

You mean where they took a random sample in a single county that wasn't under dispute?  Not the county where there is video evidence of counting continuing after everyone was asked to leave the area?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 19, 2021, 01:11:44 PM
I don't even see the logic here. If there were fraud going on, why would they wait until a day later to start committing fraud? The most *convenient* thing would be to have those hundreds of thousands of votes distributed throughout the process. To intentionally wait seems like some sort of Riddler type supervillain move, where they deliberately wanted to leave a clue for others to notice.

To speculate, the opposition, believing their own narrative, didn't expect X turnout for Trump, and wanted to have enough "votes" to be plausible without pushing believablity too far, but had to push it in the swing states where Trump was winning by a slim margin in order to secure the election.

It's not even close to being like a supervillian move. It's more like a last minute move in reaction to a tight election.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 19, 2021, 02:00:35 PM
And just to pile on: no court has actually ruled on the merits of the lawsuits made regarding the election. Yes, the suits have been repeatedly thrown out -- on procedural or standing grounds, NOT on a review of the evidence.

So yeah, the whole 'oh that's been disproven' is a bald faced lie and people who say it should feel bad about themselves.

If anyone claims the Texas Attorney General's lawsuit was determined based on evidence, then that was a mistake. However, a number of the other lawsuits *did* have a review of the evidence. That's why we've seen, for example, Melissa Carone's give testimony - because her testimony was being heard in court, and later before a legislative committee. Wikipedia has a breakdown of the various lawsuits, which includes judgements on evidence:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-election_lawsuits_related_to_the_2020_United_States_presidential_election
I'm not sure why you would say this, since I'm going through the Wikipedia page now (hardly the gold standard for objectivity anyways) and I keep seeing 'dismissed because it should've been filed earlier' or 'dismissed due to lack of standing'.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 19, 2021, 02:34:52 PM
If anyone claims the Texas Attorney General's lawsuit was determined based on evidence, then that was a mistake. However, a number of the other lawsuits *did* have a review of the evidence. That's why we've seen, for example, Melissa Carone's give testimony - because her testimony was being heard in court, and later before a legislative committee. Wikipedia has a breakdown of the various lawsuits, which includes judgements on evidence:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-election_lawsuits_related_to_the_2020_United_States_presidential_election
I'm not sure why you would say this, since I'm going through the Wikipedia page now (hardly the gold standard for objectivity anyways) and I keep seeing 'dismissed because it should've been filed earlier' or 'dismissed due to lack of standing'.

Your claim is that *every* case was dismissed with no review of the evidence -- but many were not. Six of the lawsuits had rulings against rather than dismissal, and many of the dismissals included a judgement of the evidence, not just dismissal for lack of standing. For example, from the Arizona case Bowyer et al. v. Ducey et al., here are some of the findings in the ruling:

Quote
Plaintiffs first “describe specific violations of Arizona law” to support their fraud claims.16 In doing so, they attach declarations from poll watchers that observed election officials during the November General Election. (Doc. 1 ¶¶ 46–53). As Intervenor-Defendant Maricopa County points out, these are the only declarants offered by Plaintiffs with first-hand observation of the election administration. (Doc. 36 at 4). But these four declarants do not allege fraud at all. (See Doc. 1-10 at 18–24). Instead, they raise objections to the manner and process by which Arizona election officials matched signatures on absentee ballots (Doc. 1 ¶¶ 46–48); to the process and role assigned to poll referees in settling unresolved disputes between adjudicators (Id. at ¶ 49); to “irregularities” with the voting machines on Election Day and before (Id. at ¶¶ 50–52); and to the certification of the Dominion voting system on November 18, 2020 (Id. at ¶ 53).
Quote
Plaintiffs’ expert Mr. William Briggs (“Briggs”), for example, concludes that “troublesome” errors by Arizona election officials “involving unreturned mail-in ballots [] are indicative of voter fraud” and that the election should consequently be overturned. (Doc. 1 at ¶ 54). Briggs relies on data provided by an unknown person named “Matt Braynard,” a person who may or may not have tweeted a “Residency Analysis of ABS/EV Voters” on his Twitter account on November 20, 2020 (Doc. 1-2 at 14, Ex. 2); (Id. at 52, Ex. 3). Apart from a screenshot of Mr. Braynard’s tweets that day, Plaintiffs offer nothing further about Mr. Braynard’s identity, qualifications, or methodologies used in conducting his telephone “survey.”
Quote
The Complaint is equally void of plausible allegations that Dominion voting machines were actually hacked or compromised in Arizona during the 2020 General Election. Plaintiffs are clearly concerned about the vulnerabilities of voting machines used in some counties across Arizona and in other states. They cite sources that attest to knowledge of “well-known” vulnerabilities, have included letters from concerned citizens, Arizona elected officials, and United States senators. (...) These concerns and stated vulnerabilities, however, do not sufficiently allege that any voting machine used in Arizona was in fact hacked or compromised in the 2020 General Election. Rather, what is present is a lengthy collection of phrases beginning with the words “could have, possibly, might,” and “may have.”
Quote
Not only have Plaintiffs failed to provide the Court with factual support for their extraordinary claims, but they have wholly failed to establish that they have standing for
the Court to consider them.  Allegations that find favor in the public sphere of gossip and innuendo cannot be a substitute for earnest pleadings and procedure in federal court. They most certainly cannot be the basis for upending Arizona’s 2020 General Election. The Court is left with no alternative but to dismiss this matter in its entirety.

Source: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCOURTS-azd-2_20-cv-02321/pdf/USCOURTS-azd-2_20-cv-02321-0.pdf

The eyewitness evidence *was* reviewed and *was* judged, and the case was dismissed with both a judgement of the evidence and a lack of standing.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 19, 2021, 02:40:17 PM
You don't think that in any country, the minority would try to take over the government by force?

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on January 19, 2021, 03:31:59 PM
As the AZ quoted demonstrate, if the state resists non-state audits of the primary data, judges can say “there’s a lot of ‘could-be’ in this complaint - denied”

I do agree there’s little point in talking about it.  The various states fought against demands for unprecedented transparency in a time of unprecedented suspicion.  They achieved their goal in that regard, and one outcome of that is suspicion will now likely persist similarly to other controversial events.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 19, 2021, 03:58:17 PM
I don't even see the logic here. If there were fraud going on, why would they wait until a day later to start committing fraud? The most *convenient* thing would be to have those hundreds of thousands of votes distributed throughout the process. To intentionally wait seems like some sort of Riddler type supervillain move, where they deliberately wanted to leave a clue for others to notice.

To speculate, the opposition, believing their own narrative, didn't expect X turnout for Trump, and wanted to have enough "votes" to be plausible without pushing believablity too far, but had to push it in the swing states where Trump was winning by a slim margin in order to secure the election.

It's not even close to being like a supervillian move. It's more like a last minute move in reaction to a tight election.

But in plenty of other instances, it's been said that the Democrats have been plotting fraud for months or years.

As a hypothetical, let's imagine there was no difference between early and late voting. Then *that* could be cited as an inconsistency that suggests fraud. "The Democrats spent months squealing about how they wanted vote-by-mail, then *mysteriously* there was no absolutely no boost for Democrats in vote-by-mail. Are we really supposed to believe that Democrats went to the polls just as much?"
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on January 19, 2021, 04:35:52 PM
It occurs to me that a legitimately elected President would not need 30,000 soldiers to make sure that he gets sworn in.

Then your logic is flawed if that's where it led you. You're arguing if you can persuade a small minority to take up arms against an overwhelming majority causing that majority to have troops on standby to defend the majority, that by definition that means their election was not legitimate. That's not sound logic. In fact it means anyone with enough funds to buy some mercenaries can delegitimize any election by that bad logic you're using.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on January 19, 2021, 05:14:49 PM
First we reduce the other argument to absurdity; then we wonder why we convince fewer and fewer people over time; finally we say “don’t need ‘em anyway” and put up the razor wire while discussing how to handle them as domestic enemies 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 19, 2021, 06:54:46 PM
If anyone claims the Texas Attorney General's lawsuit was determined based on evidence, then that was a mistake. However, a number of the other lawsuits *did* have a review of the evidence. That's why we've seen, for example, Melissa Carone's give testimony - because her testimony was being heard in court, and later before a legislative committee. Wikipedia has a breakdown of the various lawsuits, which includes judgements on evidence:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-election_lawsuits_related_to_the_2020_United_States_presidential_election
I'm not sure why you would say this, since I'm going through the Wikipedia page now (hardly the gold standard for objectivity anyways) and I keep seeing 'dismissed because it should've been filed earlier' or 'dismissed due to lack of standing'.

Your claim is that *every* case was dismissed with no review of the evidence -- but many were not. Six of the lawsuits had rulings against rather than dismissal, and many of the dismissals included a judgement of the evidence, not just dismissal for lack of standing. For example, from the Arizona case Bowyer et al. v. Ducey et al., here are some of the findings in the ruling:

Quote
Plaintiffs first “describe specific violations of Arizona law” to support their fraud claims.16 In doing so, they attach declarations from poll watchers that observed election officials during the November General Election. (Doc. 1 ¶¶ 46–53). As Intervenor-Defendant Maricopa County points out, these are the only declarants offered by Plaintiffs with first-hand observation of the election administration. (Doc. 36 at 4). But these four declarants do not allege fraud at all. (See Doc. 1-10 at 18–24). Instead, they raise objections to the manner and process by which Arizona election officials matched signatures on absentee ballots (Doc. 1 ¶¶ 46–48); to the process and role assigned to poll referees in settling unresolved disputes between adjudicators (Id. at ¶ 49); to “irregularities” with the voting machines on Election Day and before (Id. at ¶¶ 50–52); and to the certification of the Dominion voting system on November 18, 2020 (Id. at ¶ 53).
Quote
Plaintiffs’ expert Mr. William Briggs (“Briggs”), for example, concludes that “troublesome” errors by Arizona election officials “involving unreturned mail-in ballots [] are indicative of voter fraud” and that the election should consequently be overturned. (Doc. 1 at ¶ 54). Briggs relies on data provided by an unknown person named “Matt Braynard,” a person who may or may not have tweeted a “Residency Analysis of ABS/EV Voters” on his Twitter account on November 20, 2020 (Doc. 1-2 at 14, Ex. 2); (Id. at 52, Ex. 3). Apart from a screenshot of Mr. Braynard’s tweets that day, Plaintiffs offer nothing further about Mr. Braynard’s identity, qualifications, or methodologies used in conducting his telephone “survey.”
Quote
The Complaint is equally void of plausible allegations that Dominion voting machines were actually hacked or compromised in Arizona during the 2020 General Election. Plaintiffs are clearly concerned about the vulnerabilities of voting machines used in some counties across Arizona and in other states. They cite sources that attest to knowledge of “well-known” vulnerabilities, have included letters from concerned citizens, Arizona elected officials, and United States senators. (...) These concerns and stated vulnerabilities, however, do not sufficiently allege that any voting machine used in Arizona was in fact hacked or compromised in the 2020 General Election. Rather, what is present is a lengthy collection of phrases beginning with the words “could have, possibly, might,” and “may have.”
Quote
Not only have Plaintiffs failed to provide the Court with factual support for their extraordinary claims, but they have wholly failed to establish that they have standing for
the Court to consider them.  Allegations that find favor in the public sphere of gossip and innuendo cannot be a substitute for earnest pleadings and procedure in federal court. They most certainly cannot be the basis for upending Arizona’s 2020 General Election. The Court is left with no alternative but to dismiss this matter in its entirety.

Source: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCOURTS-azd-2_20-cv-02321/pdf/USCOURTS-azd-2_20-cv-02321-0.pdf

The eyewitness evidence *was* reviewed and *was* judged, and the case was dismissed with both a judgement of the evidence and a lack of standing.
Is this a finding of fact, jhkim? Actually, no, it's not. That court document is strange reading.

For example, page 6:
Quote
Plaintiffs allege in Count One that Defendants violated the Elections and Electors
Clauses and 28 U.S.C. § 1983 by, among other things, losing or destroying absentee ballots,
and/or replacing those ballots with “blank ballots filled out by election workers, Dominion
or other third parties” sending thousands of absentee ballots to someone besides the
registered voter that “could have been filled out by anyone.” (Doc. 1 at 41). Defendants
argue that Plaintiffs do not have standing to assert such a claim. (Doc. 40 at 8–9).
Wait, defendants aren't arguing that the plaintiffs are full of crap, they're arguing that the plaintiffs don't have standing to assert it? Am I misreading this?

See, this is what I'm talking about. There hasn't been audits. There hasn't been analysis. There's been sweeping under the rug, and hoping people will just settle down, and hiding behind laches, standing, and 'you're too early/too late'.

Sorry, no. Dance more. And pray to whatever deity you venerate we don't have a hot civil war over this.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 19, 2021, 08:01:39 PM
I don't even see the logic here. If there were fraud going on, why would they wait until a day later to start committing fraud? The most *convenient* thing would be to have those hundreds of thousands of votes distributed throughout the process. To intentionally wait seems like some sort of Riddler type supervillain move, where they deliberately wanted to leave a clue for others to notice.

To speculate, the opposition, believing their own narrative, didn't expect X turnout for Trump, and wanted to have enough "votes" to be plausible without pushing believablity too far, but had to push it in the swing states where Trump was winning by a slim margin in order to secure the election.

It's not even close to being like a supervillian move. It's more like a last minute move in reaction to a tight election.

But in plenty of other instances, it's been said that the Democrats have been plotting fraud for months or years.

I don't know about those other instances. I do think that the Democrats and the Anti-Trump Republicans wanted Trump out at any cost, and have been working on it since 2016. All the pushback and narrative spinning that has been done during Trumps presidency is right there, pushed by the mainstream media.

Quote
As a hypothetical, let's imagine there was no difference between early and late voting. Then *that* could be cited as an inconsistency that suggests fraud. "The Democrats spent months squealing about how they wanted vote-by-mail, then *mysteriously* there was no absolutely no boost for Democrats in vote-by-mail. Are we really supposed to believe that Democrats went to the polls just as much?"

Vote by mail is the root of that issue, regardless of who wins, the other side is going to find discrepancies. Especially since this was the largest amount of voting by mail due to Covid, and implemented with short notice by the states and districts that hadn't previously done it.

I have no evidence. My suspicion is that we're not seeing top down co-ordinated voter fraud. I think we're seeing bottom-up voter fraud, only organized by the shared understanding that people who hate Trump think he's worse than Hitler and saving us from the Orange Holocaust was worth a little shenanigans.

The last minute voting shutdowns and Biden's miraculous last second wins in the states he needed seems more top down, but again, I don't have smoking gun evidence, and I don't think we'll ever get it. And the denials and obsfucation from politicans and media personalities who were dead certain the Russians handed Trump the 2016 election is a cherry on the shit sundae.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 19, 2021, 08:13:03 PM
I have no evidence. My suspicion is that we're not seeing top down co-ordinated voter fraud. I think we're seeing bottom-up voter fraud, only organized by the shared understanding that people who hate Trump think he's worse than Hitler and saving us from the Orange Holocaust was worth a little shenanigans.

At least there are some officials willing to do their job to investigate and prosecute election fraud:

https://en-volve.com/2021/01/14/election-official-arrested-in-texas-for-massive-voter-fraud-and-vote-harvesting-after-project-veritas-sting/ (https://en-volve.com/2021/01/14/election-official-arrested-in-texas-for-massive-voter-fraud-and-vote-harvesting-after-project-veritas-sting/)

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 19, 2021, 08:25:45 PM
Your claim is that *every* case was dismissed with no review of the evidence -- but many were not. Six of the lawsuits had rulings against rather than dismissal, and many of the dismissals included a judgement of the evidence, not just dismissal for lack of standing. For example, from the Arizona case Bowyer et al. v. Ducey et al., here are some of the findings in the ruling:
...
Source: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCOURTS-azd-2_20-cv-02321/pdf/USCOURTS-azd-2_20-cv-02321-0.pdf

The eyewitness evidence *was* reviewed and *was* judged, and the case was dismissed with both a judgement of the evidence and a lack of standing.
Is this a finding of fact, jhkim? Actually, no, it's not. That court document is strange reading.

For example, page 6:
Quote
Plaintiffs allege in Count One that Defendants violated the Elections and Electors
Clauses and 28 U.S.C. § 1983 by, among other things, losing or destroying absentee ballots,
and/or replacing those ballots with “blank ballots filled out by election workers, Dominion
or other third parties” sending thousands of absentee ballots to someone besides the
registered voter that “could have been filled out by anyone.” (Doc. 1 at 41). Defendants
argue that Plaintiffs do not have standing to assert such a claim. (Doc. 40 at 8–9).
Wait, defendants aren't arguing that the plaintiffs are full of crap, they're arguing that the plaintiffs don't have standing to assert it? Am I misreading this?

See, this is what I'm talking about. There hasn't been audits. There hasn't been analysis. There's been sweeping under the rug, and hoping people will just settle down, and hiding behind laches, standing, and 'you're too early/too late'.

Sorry, no. Dance more. And pray to whatever deity you venerate we don't have a hot civil war over this.

Again, usual caveats that I'm not a lawyer - but from what I read, there are six reasons to the dismissal -- marked A (pg4) broken into Count 1 and Count 2, B (pg11), C (pg14), D (pg17), E (pg21), and F (pg22). Above, you are quoting from Count 1 of Part A, which is on lack of standing. But there are five other parts. The evidence is mostly reviewed in Part F, which is where they assess plausibility. The introduction for part F on pages 22-23 goes into how the evidence presented must establish that the allegations are plausible.

Quote
In a Rule 12(b)(6) context, courts must consider all well pleaded factual allegations as true and interpret them in the light most favorable to the plaintiff. Schlegal v. Wells Fargo Bank, NA, 720 F.3d 1204, 1207 (9th Cir. 2013). Dismissal is proper when there is either (1) a lack of a cognizable legal theory or (2) insufficient facts to support a cognizable legal claim.
...
Moreover, “claims of fraud or mistake . . . must, in addition to pleading with particularity, also plead plausible allegations. That is, the pleading must state enough facts to raise a reasonable expectation that discovery will reveal evidence of the misconduct alleged.”
...
Establishing the plausibility of a complaint’s allegations is a two-step process that is “context-specific” and “requires the reviewing court to draw on its judicial experience and common sense.” Iqbal, 556 U.S. 679. First, a court must “identif[y] pleadings that, because they are no more than conclusions, are not entitled to the assumption of truth.” Id. Then, assuming the truth only of well-pleaded factual allegations, a court must “determine whether they plausibly give rise to an entitlement to relief.”
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: consolcwby on January 19, 2021, 08:56:46 PM
Look, I was going to post one more DESPAIR post, but... fuck it. I'm done. I'm done with you people. I tried. And tried. But to no avail... I tried being serious, silly, bombastic, and sarcastic. I tried to wake you all up. Looks like even ice water won't work. But I promised something ~ so here it is, in a nutshell:
===================
Back during college, I took a few electives, including a constitutional law course. I aced it. About as year later, during a seminar on writing a resume, I got into an argument about the law with a woman who was... woke. When I left the room, I was approached by another woman who wanted my resume saying she was a secretary-pool-typist for the government. I gave it to her - hoping for a job. After that exchange, I ran into many people I never met who knew who I was. I always knew it was from that resume. I get along with most people, and was told many strange things. In 2007 I got a job at an HP datacenter from a contracting company. It was pointless and boring: Checking cables, pushing power buttons, and dealing with library tapes all while navigating a rat-maze of servers. It was in 2010-11 that EDS (Perot's old company) from Texas came in with their Government computers. Our group had nothing to do with them, but I got along with the older people there. Well, around 2012 they began hooking into everything. I was getting tickets from them and relaying them over to EDS ~ who, quite frankly ~ didn't give two shits about taking down half of all continental telecoms or most of Alaskan Shipping. I was approached to work overtime and I did. Two 82 hour weeks. I got a call from the HP boss from Atlanta stating if I ever took more overtime that quarter I'd be fired. Fine. I was glad to get the rest. That's when my supervisor asked me for a 'Favor'. He told me EDS and the Feds were specifically asking for me to work 5 hours on my day off ~ Saturday. I told him it was impossible. I couldn't and talk to Robert (the boss). Well, he flew into his whole "Robert?! Fuck him! He's not here! Brian wants the fucking day off and I already said you'd cover! So, don't give me any of this HOLY DAY SHIT! I'm sick and tired of all this bullshit!" So, being who I am, I let him have it ~ told him I wasn't getting fired for him, Brian, Ted, or anyone. So, he left in a huff, came back an hour later and told me this: "Sorry. I told them you couldn't work and I think I got you killed." I looked at him and said "Yeah. Okaaay."
Two days later, I was called into the foyer of the building where my supervisor, EDS, and some sketchy-looking people were (2 dudes, reminded me of the blues brothers, and a woman). Mike from EDS started to talk when the woman came over and said this: "Yes or no: You were asked to work on Saturday. Will you do it?" I said I couldn't but before I could say anything, she said this: "Fine. Then you'll be just another dead kike we shoot in the head. You, your family, your friends. Enjoy your Shabbat." And I was escorted out by security. After that I began to be harrassed at work every day I came in, my car keyed, and being short on pay - just because. After six months of this, I left on sick leave, then on disability due to a previous condition. Now look, it didn't end there. For the next several years, I was reminded by both the city and state police, I was group stalked for a year (at least that I know of), and had break-ins while at home. In 2014-15 I had one to three black SUVs outside my home at night with laser scopes pointed at my house ~ calling the police? They would just laugh and hang up. That's when I started doing research and talking to other people who were in my situation.
I really, really wish I was just a LARP. My mother and Ex died and they knew. I stopped going outside of my house about 13 months ago, because I can't take the chance. So, now I'm telling you all this: IT IS NOT THE GOVERNMENT NOR IS IT THE SYSTEM. IT IS THE PEOPLE INSIDE IT. If you have the right people in the right place at the right time you can take over the most powerful nation in the world without ever firing a fucking shot! The sad thing is, you are all too far up your own asses to see the truth. So good luck. I had a good run, but I know now they will come back. But I've got a surprise waiting for them... my big mouth and a bit of truth for ammunition. That's why I like Danganronpa: TRUTH BULLETS to counter their big lie. (Great VN, btw! Made me happy during my internment!)  https://youtu.be/J_79uDFidd0

Anyway, sorry to offend! Sorry to insult! You deserved it! But not this.
GOOD LUCK!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 19, 2021, 09:20:59 PM
Anyway, sorry to offend! Sorry to insult! You deserved it! But not this.

Shit man, Hard Times Create Strong Men.  Come get some.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 19, 2021, 09:26:22 PM
I have no evidence. My suspicion is that we're not seeing top down co-ordinated voter fraud. I think we're seeing bottom-up voter fraud, only organized by the shared understanding that people who hate Trump think he's worse than Hitler and saving us from the Orange Holocaust was worth a little shenanigans.

Thanks, Ratman. Yes, there's some fraud in every election - and I could believe that there was more in this election, given the extreme partisanship. We should find and prosecute these cases. But declaring fraud without evidence is wrong - as is flawed evidence like experts testifying about fraud in non-existent counties.


At least there are some officials willing to do their job to investigate and prosecute election fraud:

https://en-volve.com/2021/01/14/election-official-arrested-in-texas-for-massive-voter-fraud-and-vote-harvesting-after-project-veritas-sting/ (https://en-volve.com/2021/01/14/election-official-arrested-in-texas-for-massive-voter-fraud-and-vote-harvesting-after-project-veritas-sting/)

Yes. There have been other charges filed as well, like Mr. Bartman of Pennsylvania charged with trying to register his dead mother and mother-in-law to vote for them.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pennsylvania-voter-fraud-republican-felony-charges-casting-ballot-for-dead-mother

These cases are proceeding, and it is quite likely the fraudsters put in jail. If we believe there are others responsible for fraud, people can still gather evidence and prosecute them. The statute of limitations on fraud prosecution is generally five years, from what I read in search.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 19, 2021, 10:35:40 PM
And just to pile on: no court has actually ruled on the merits of the lawsuits made regarding the election. Yes, the suits have been repeatedly thrown out -- on procedural or standing grounds, NOT on a review of the evidence.

So yeah, the whole 'oh that's been disproven' is a bald faced lie and people who say it should feel bad about themselves.

Seems I just keep rebutting this, and it just keeps getting repeated (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1157305/?topicseen#msg1157305).
Quote from: rawma (from a locked thread)
Quote from: Judge Brett Ludwig, a Trump appointee
Quote
This Court has allowed plaintiff the chance to make his case and he has lost on the merits.
Page 22 at https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wied.92761/gov.uscourts.wied.92761.134.0_4.pdf

People like Ghostmaker who repeat lies should feel bad about themselves.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 19, 2021, 11:25:45 PM
People who repeat lies should feel bad about themselves.

How bad should they feel?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 20, 2021, 12:00:13 AM
People who repeat lies should feel bad about themselves.

How bad should they feel?

Depends on the lies and how many times they repeat them.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 20, 2021, 12:02:07 AM
The insurrection having failed, only 12 hours until Trump is no longer President, and President Biden can begin fixing things.  8)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 20, 2021, 12:04:04 AM


I'm glad Trump fought the election. Our system should be up to scrutiny, and the resistance to questioning the methods and results from the embedded establishment just showed how much the Democrats and Republicans are used to simply passing the golden scepter until their turn to screw the country comes around, and not actually responding to the people they claim to serve.

But best of all, everyone who claimed Trump was going to be yanked out of office by some fascist quasi-military action are going to be dissapointed in the extreme. Trump is leaving, as he said with a loyal and joyful heart. And everyone who masturbated to the demented fantasy of "toppling a dictator" get to stew in their toxicity.

I think this will be the last populist president for some time. They're not going to make the same mistakes in our lifetimes.
Thank you Donald Trump. Whatever you are, you were the kick the pants that America needed.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 20, 2021, 01:37:40 AM
I think this will be the last populist president for some time. They're not going to make the same mistakes in our lifetimes.
Thank you Donald Trump. Whatever you are, you were the kick the pants that America needed.

You are probably right, but it may depend on how the dust finally settles.  The establishment had to completely remove their masks in order to accomplish it.  If they keep pushing, something is going to break.

On the other hand, we do get to enjoy pointing out to all the Biden supporters that they are getting exactly what they voted for...

...although $20 in internet bucks says it will be less than 6 months before some of our fellow posters are going to whine 'But I didn't support that' when their 'most popular candidate in history' and his 'historic' running mate start in with all the establishment same old, same old...

One thing that will be interesting is how the establishment shakes itself out since the Republicans will be pretty much done as a party at this point.  The best they can offer is 'We are not the Democrats' which won't be enough to pull in the voters they need.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 20, 2021, 08:20:16 AM
I think this will be the last populist president for some time. They're not going to make the same mistakes in our lifetimes.
Thank you Donald Trump. Whatever you are, you were the kick the pants that America needed.
Seventy million (or more) supporters might disagree.

Trump wasn't the disease. He wasn't the cause. He was a symptom of intense discontent with the 'Washington Way'.

And those voters aren't going to just vanish just because people say mean things about them, or even deplatform them.

But then, the left has never been very smart.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Garry G on January 20, 2021, 11:39:07 AM


I'm glad Trump fought the election. Our system should be up to scrutiny, and the resistance to questioning the methods and results from the embedded establishment just showed how much the Democrats and Republicans are used to simply passing the golden scepter until their turn to screw the country comes around, and not actually responding to the people they claim to serve.

But best of all, everyone who claimed Trump was going to be yanked out of office by some fascist quasi-military action are going to be dissapointed in the extreme. Trump is leaving, as he said with a loyal and joyful heart. And everyone who masturbated to the demented fantasy of "toppling a dictator" get to stew in their toxicity.

I think this will be the last populist president for some time. They're not going to make the same mistakes in our lifetimes.
Thank you Donald Trump. Whatever you are, you were the kick the pants that America needed.

I think many will be happy with him slinking out with his tail between his legs like the loser he is.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 20, 2021, 11:40:45 AM
Funny how the 'winner' desperately needed 30,000+ NG, 'properly vetted', to protect him during his own inauguration.

But that's none of my business *sip*
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 20, 2021, 11:49:38 AM
I think this will be the last populist president for some time. They're not going to make the same mistakes in our lifetimes.
Thank you Donald Trump. Whatever you are, you were the kick the pants that America needed.
Seventy million (or more) supporters might disagree.

Trump wasn't the disease. He wasn't the cause. He was a symptom of intense discontent with the 'Washington Way'.

But then, the left has never been very smart.

I see it mostly as a failure of Republican leadership, not a problem among Democrats. The elite political class of either party are limited in how far they can go, because if they go too far, they get voted out. Smart politicians give their supporters enough of the desired agenda that they stay in power. That's how democracy should work - the representatives respond to the will of the people.

I agree that Trump was a symptom of discontent. Working class Republicans were fed up with the Bush era politics, driven largely because economic inequality has been growing in the U.S. for the last thirty years. The rich are getting richer. The traditional Republican answer is trickle down theory - that even if the rich are growing richer, the rest are getting a boost too. However, that answer has been less and less accepted.

But how different are Trump's economic policies in practice for the average American?

Half of Trump's policy - and his biggest legislative agenda - was the traditional Republican playbook -- increase government spending and cut taxes across the board, running up the deficit. (The median American got around $1000 from the cuts, but the top 1% got $50,000.)

Where he departs from traditional is in his trade wars and restricted immigration. The benefit of those to the average American is unclear. I don't have a strong opinion, and opinion from economists seems highly varied.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Garry G on January 20, 2021, 11:59:21 AM
Funny how the 'winner' desperately needed 30,000+ NG, 'properly vetted', to protect him during his own inauguration.

But that's none of my business *sip*

It's scary that you're NG has a anti-democratic traitor in their ranks.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 20, 2021, 12:33:06 PM
I think this will be the last populist president for some time. They're not going to make the same mistakes in our lifetimes.
Thank you Donald Trump. Whatever you are, you were the kick the pants that America needed.
Seventy million (or more) supporters might disagree.

Trump wasn't the disease. He wasn't the cause. He was a symptom of intense discontent with the 'Washington Way'.

But then, the left has never been very smart.

I see it mostly as a failure of Republican leadership, not a problem among Democrats. The elite political class of either party are limited in how far they can go, because if they go too far, they get voted out. Smart politicians give their supporters enough of the desired agenda that they stay in power. That's how democracy should work - the representatives respond to the will of the people.

I agree that Trump was a symptom of discontent. Working class Republicans were fed up with the Bush era politics, driven largely because economic inequality has been growing in the U.S. for the last thirty years. The rich are getting richer. The traditional Republican answer is trickle down theory - that even if the rich are growing richer, the rest are getting a boost too. However, that answer has been less and less accepted.

But how different are Trump's economic policies in practice for the average American?

Half of Trump's policy - and his biggest legislative agenda - was the traditional Republican playbook -- increase government spending and cut taxes across the board, running up the deficit. (The median American got around $1000 from the cuts, but the top 1% got $50,000.)

Where he departs from traditional is in his trade wars and restricted immigration. The benefit of those to the average American is unclear. I don't have a strong opinion, and opinion from economists seems highly varied.

1) $1000 to a median is a much bigger boost than $50,000 to a 1%'er...

   And I think the numbers are off.  As I said before, I do my own taxes and mine was about $2000 difference and I am near the median with no kids.  I'm guessing that wherever those numbers came from is using total taxes, not just federal.*

2) Restricted immigration raises wages by reducing the supply of workers. This can also raise prices but over the last 50 years the wage stagnation far outstrips any price increase that is due to reduced worker supply.

3) Trade wars and tariffs will cause similar effects, but again the fact that it is not true free trade has still caused prices to rise far faster than wages. 

   ...Would you allow a US company to use slave labor inside the border?  Setting aside the moral/ethical dilemma, economically it would give the company a significant advantage over competition.  Then why is it considered 'free' trade when you allow importers to do it?

4) Economists are never in consensus.  Everything is a series of trade-offs. 

*but its ok.  Biden said a few days ago they were going to remove the $10,000 exemption cap on state/local taxes.  That should help all those poor people in CA/NY who are paying more than $10,000 to the state and city...oh wait, that isn't the 'poor' or ' middle-class' is it?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 20, 2021, 12:34:50 PM
Funny how the 'winner' desperately needed 30,000+ NG, 'properly vetted', to protect him during his own inauguration.

But that's none of my business *sip*

It's scary that you're NG has a anti-democratic traitor in their ranks.

Really...a Traitor??...Wow!

Do you have a link to the charges?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on January 20, 2021, 01:29:48 PM
So where are all the people who "guaranteed" Trump would be inaugurated for a second term in that other thread? Who will stand up and be brave enough to admit they said that and were wrong?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 20, 2021, 01:54:29 PM
Funny how the 'winner' desperately needed 30,000+ NG, 'properly vetted', to protect him during his own inauguration.

But that's none of my business *sip*

It's scary that you're NG has a anti-democratic traitor in their ranks.
Didn't take long for dissent to no longer be patriotic again.

So where are all the people who "guaranteed" Trump would be inaugurated for a second term in that other thread? Who will stand up and be brave enough to admit they said that and were wrong?
You cheat at solitaire, don't you?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 20, 2021, 02:03:44 PM
So where are all the people who "guaranteed" Trump would be inaugurated for a second term in that other thread? Who will stand up and be brave enough to admit they said that and were wrong?

Geez, Congress and the media are still just 'talking' about rounding up and re-educating the 'disloyal'...are you trying to get a head start on your denouncement list?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Garry G on January 20, 2021, 02:05:55 PM
Funny how the 'winner' desperately needed 30,000+ NG, 'properly vetted', to protect him during his own inauguration.

But that's none of my business *sip*

It's scary that you're NG has a anti-democratic traitor in their ranks.

Really...a Traitor??...Wow!

Do you have a link to the charges?

Luckily they didn't need to be charged because they didn't have the opportunity to fulfill whatever traitorous agenda was in their heads.

No coup for you.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Tubesock Army on January 20, 2021, 02:23:10 PM
Funny how the 'winner' desperately needed 30,000+ NG, 'properly vetted', to protect him during his own inauguration.

But that's none of my business *sip*

Might as well complain about having Secret Service protection at all
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 20, 2021, 02:29:20 PM
Funny how the 'winner' desperately needed 30,000+ NG, 'properly vetted', to protect him during his own inauguration.

But that's none of my business *sip*

It's scary that you're NG has a anti-democratic traitor in their ranks.

Really...a Traitor??...Wow!

Do you have a link to the charges?

Luckily they didn't need to be charged because they didn't have the opportunity to fulfill whatever traitorous agenda was in their heads.

No coup for you.

Oh...So you lied about them being traitors then.

Apparently they must not have done anything untoward if there are also no USCMJ charges, since those are a bit more strict...

When did I ask for a coup? ???
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on January 20, 2021, 02:45:46 PM


Geez, Congress and the media are still just 'talking' about rounding up and re-educating the 'disloyal'...are you trying to get a head start on your denouncement list?

I'm just trying to hold people accountable for their actions, like they'd do to me:

Brad Said: Nahh, Trump will win, it's just gonna take a long time... (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1151996/#msg1151996)

Brad said: Reality: Lots of litigation, voter fraud uncovered, Trump wins (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1152001/#msg1152001)

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 20, 2021, 02:49:49 PM
Luckily they didn't need to be charged because they didn't have the opportunity to fulfill whatever traitorous agenda was in their heads.

Oh...So you lied about them being traitors then.

Remember rawma was calling for liars to be punished.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 20, 2021, 02:55:52 PM
I agree that Trump was a symptom of discontent. Working class Republicans were fed up with the Bush era politics, driven largely because economic inequality has been growing in the U.S. for the last thirty years. The rich are getting richer. The traditional Republican answer is trickle down theory - that even if the rich are growing richer, the rest are getting a boost too. However, that answer has been less and less accepted.

But how different are Trump's economic policies in practice for the average American?

Half of Trump's policy - and his biggest legislative agenda - was the traditional Republican playbook -- increase government spending and cut taxes across the board, running up the deficit. (The median American got around $1000 from the cuts, but the top 1% got $50,000.)

Where he departs from traditional is in his trade wars and restricted immigration. The benefit of those to the average American is unclear. I don't have a strong opinion, and opinion from economists seems highly varied.
Trump's support seems to draw from the same vein of discontent that led to the Tea Party movement. Saying it's about economic inequality is true to some degree, but it's looking at it from the wrong perspective. Because that's a very leftist way of looking at things, and they're not seeing it in terms of class struggles or whether some distant people are getting rich. They're more concerned about their own lives, and how they're doing in comparison to their parents and grandparents. So for them, it's more about the decline of Main Street and rural America, and the loss of jobs and opportunities. Andrew Yang's solutions are silly, but he diagnosed the problem pretty well in his book The War on Normal People. A lot of middle America has turned into an economic wasteland, with the young leaving if they can.

This decline is the result of a number of factors, including free trade and outsourcing, the shift from an industrial to a service economy, increasing automation, and the acceleration of all of the above with the growth of internet commerce and machine learning. Their boogeyman isn't the rich, it's the elites. Education, especially at elite schools with the concomitant connections and opportunities, is more of a dividing line that raw income. The increasing intrusion of the government on both economic and cultural matters has also led to a resentment of the technocratic elites in the federal government, regardless of their ostensible salaries.

The original Occupy movement was a mix of this, rightist libertarians, and leftist (pseudo?)anarchists. The three groups were reacting to the same core issues, but with very different perspectives and very different solutions. The libertarians focused more on opportunities, and opposed the Fed and state intervention. The leftists were more focused on economic inequality and class politics, and started pushing identity politics hard. That led to the other two groups disassociating themselves from the movement, turning Occupy into a hardcore anti(pro?)-authoritarian leftist movement.

I'm not very clear on Trump's real political views. In a lot of ways, he seems like a typical New York liberal, who doesn't care in the slightest about religious traditionalism or race. His stance on immigration is hard to reconcile with this, but can be explained by political opportunism -- he found an untapped vein of discontent, and exploited it. His appeal to evangelicals is similar: They know he's not one of them, but he'll speak to them and work with them, whereas the rest of the political establishment either bitterly opposes or treats them as an embarrassment.

But that doesn't really explain the birther nonsense, which was long before he became a political demagogue. I think he's really just a businessman, looking for opportunities and worried about competition. He's for free markets in the sense he wants to run a business and do well, but it's the nose in the weeds practical perspective, rather than a sky-high theoretical view from above. That's why he seems oblivious to the damage done by things like monetary inflation, because he has no theoretical grounding; and he's fine with stimulus packages, because he likes handing out things to his friends. He's has no problem with protectionism, as long it favors him or his allies.

I think there's less of a divide over the trade war with China than you think. The political and journalistic classes hate it because it comes from Trump, but even when NPR was interviewing trade officials or import/expert business heads, they couldn't find any who would flat-out say it was bad. They weren't confident that Trump's tactics were going to work, and they knew in the short term it would hurt, but they believed it was far past time someone stood up to China and all their unfair practices. Among economists, some supported the political establishment by saying China is bad and we need to do something, but Trump is still bad because he should have done it a bit differently; and some on the strong free market side will always argue in favor of unilaterally reducing all tariffs to zero; but most seem to think it's at least somewhat justified.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on January 20, 2021, 04:03:01 PM
Let Mistwell tap dance - he’s been savoring the arrival of this moment for a long time

File that away, and vote against every candidate from the GOP he prefers, in 2022 primaries. 

Victors get to tap dance if the feel it’s wise. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 20, 2021, 04:10:29 PM
Let Mistwell tap dance - he’s been savoring the arrival of this moment for a long time

File that away, and vote against every candidate from the GOP he prefers, in 2022 primaries. 

Victors get to tap dance if the feel it’s wise.

Let him have his moment, his side cheated and won fair and square.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Garry G on January 20, 2021, 04:25:31 PM
Funny how the 'winner' desperately needed 30,000+ NG, 'properly vetted', to protect him during his own inauguration.

But that's none of my business *sip*

It's scary that you're NG has a anti-democratic traitor in their ranks.

Really...a Traitor??...Wow!

Do you have a link to the charges?

Luckily they didn't need to be charged because they didn't have the opportunity to fulfill whatever traitorous agenda was in their heads.

No coup for you.

Oh...So you lied about them being traitors then.

Apparently they must not have done anything untoward if there are also no USCMJ charges, since those are a bit more strict...

When did I ask for a coup? ???

Mibbe eh mibbe naw.

Anybody who doesn't accept the democratic will if the American people is a traitor. To be a member of the armed forces and not be trustworthy to defend the President marks you out. True Americans should look to upholding the democratic traditions of the nation.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 20, 2021, 04:29:50 PM
Half of Trump's policy - and his biggest legislative agenda - was the traditional Republican playbook -- increase government spending and cut taxes across the board, running up the deficit. (The median American got around $1000 from the cuts, but the top 1% got $50,000.)

Where he departs from traditional is in his trade wars and restricted immigration. The benefit of those to the average American is unclear. I don't have a strong opinion, and opinion from economists seems highly varied.

1) $1000 to a median is a much bigger boost than $50,000 to a 1%'er...

   And I think the numbers are off.  As I said before, I do my own taxes and mine was about $2000 difference and I am near the median with no kids.  I'm guessing that wherever those numbers came from is using total taxes, not just federal.*

Because there was a fair amount of restructuring, there is a variance depending on who you are. But I've seen roughly this number from multiple sources. Here's one:

Quote
The Tax Policy Center estimates the 60% of Americans at the lower end of the income distribution will have federal tax savings of less than $1,000. Also, most people believe the tax cuts didn’t benefit people like them but only the very wealthy. They are right. Those in the top 1% save $51,000.
Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/teresaghilarducci/2019/04/09/five-good-reasons-it-doesnt-feel-like-the-trump-tax-cut-benefited-you/
cf also https://americansfortaxfairness.org/promise-will-middle-class-tax-cut/

2) Restricted immigration raises wages by reducing the supply of workers. This can also raise prices but over the last 50 years the wage stagnation far outstrips any price increase that is due to reduced worker supply.

3) Trade wars and tariffs will cause similar effects, but again the fact that it is not true free trade has still caused prices to rise far faster than wages. 

   ...Would you allow a US company to use slave labor inside the border?  Setting aside the moral/ethical dilemma, economically it would give the company a significant advantage over competition.  Then why is it considered 'free' trade when you allow importers to do it?

4) Economists are never in consensus.  Everything is a series of trade-offs. 

Regarding these - #2 and #3 are a piece of #4. Yes, I've seen similar arguments about immigration, but those seem simplistic. Many people picture that there are a fixed number of jobs from the overlords, so if you double the population - then half the people are out of work. But that's obviously false. More people means more domestic market -- building more homes, shopping more, and so forth. That creates more jobs. And more work can also create more jobs, like how new homes creates new service jobs. The balance between positive and negative effects depends on the details of how immigration is handled.

As for slavery - that is overwhelmingly a moral/ethical question, not an economic one. I would love it if we set trade limits based more on morality rather than convenience - but that wasn't what the recent trade wars were about. We're still close partners with Saudi Arabia and other repressive countries.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 20, 2021, 04:39:12 PM
I'm not very clear on Trump's real political views. In a lot of ways, he seems like a typical New York liberal, who doesn't care in the slightest about religious traditionalism or race. His stance on immigration is hard to reconcile with this, but can be explained by political opportunism -- he found an untapped vein of discontent, and exploited it. His appeal to evangelicals is similar: They know he's not one of them, but he'll speak to them and work with them, whereas the rest of the political establishment either bitterly opposes or treats them as an embarrassment.

But that doesn't really explain the birther nonsense, which was long before he became a political demagogue. I think he's really just a businessman, looking for opportunities and worried about competition. He's for free markets in the sense he wants to run a business and do well, but it's the nose in the weeds practical perspective, rather than a sky-high theoretical view from above. That's why he seems oblivious to the damage done by things like monetary inflation, because he has no theoretical grounding; and he's fine with stimulus packages, because he likes handing out things to his friends. He's has no problem with protectionism, as long it favors him or his allies.


I think he does have the theoretical grounding. 

1) At this point, the damage that will come from stimulus, QE, etc. is going to be pretty devastating. 
(Hence, why the can keeps getting kicked down the road.) 

2) Everybody below upper-middle-class will get hit very hard, but the elites try and hide it by manipulating the data.
(Inflation is a big factor at that end of the income spectrum.  Notice which categories have been 'removed' from inflation rate calculations between 2000-2016.)

3) They started raising the Interest Rate as soon as he got into office.  But his policies still enabled the economy to expand and the rate was almost back into the 'range' that economists like, then the Wu-Flu destroyed the economy. 
(He understood that Keynesian economics are not good long term, but he was trying to soften the blow as much as possible.  If you look at his ideas as a whole they all lean in that direction.)

As much as I despise the use of Keynesian economics to generate wealth off of the back of a serf class, I think he was trying to get people out from under the establishment yoke without collapsing everything.

I told a friend a few years ago.  Donald Trump is rich but he isn't an 'elitist'.  He doesn't require a 'serf class'.  Look at his businesses.  Some people need bowing and scraping, but he doesn't.  He would be just as happy if we were all millionaires, because then we could all spend money at his golf courses, etc.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 20, 2021, 05:44:15 PM
I think he's really just a businessman, looking for opportunities and worried about competition. He's for free markets in the sense he wants to run a business and do well, but it's the nose in the weeds practical perspective, rather than a sky-high theoretical view from above. That's why he seems oblivious to the damage done by things like monetary inflation, because he has no theoretical grounding; and he's fine with stimulus packages, because he likes handing out things to his friends. He's has no problem with protectionism, as long it favors him or his allies.

I think there's less of a divide over the trade war with China than you think. The political and journalistic classes hate it because it comes from Trump, but even when NPR was interviewing trade officials or import/expert business heads, they couldn't find any who would flat-out say it was bad. They weren't confident that Trump's tactics were going to work, and they knew in the short term it would hurt, but they believed it was far past time someone stood up to China and all their unfair practices. Among economists, some supported the political establishment by saying China is bad and we need to do something, but Trump is still bad because he should have done it a bit differently; and some on the strong free market side will always argue in favor of unilaterally reducing all tariffs to zero; but most seem to think it's at least somewhat justified.

I was speaking about the trade wars in general, not just China. Particularly your last sentence sounds much like what I'm saying. "Most think it's at least somewhat justified" sounds mixed to me, which was my point. I'm not opposed to trade wars -- I don't feel strongly about them either way. I support more restricted trade based on human rights - especially with repressive governments like China, Saudi Arabia, and Russia. But that's on moral grounds rather than economic benefit.


1) At this point, the damage that will come from stimulus, QE, etc. is going to be pretty devastating. 
(Hence, why the can keeps getting kicked down the road.) 

2) Everybody below upper-middle-class will get hit very hard, but the elites try and hide it by manipulating the data.
(Inflation is a big factor at that end of the income spectrum.  Notice which categories have been 'removed' from inflation rate calculations between 2000-2016.)

The only recent president who came close to balancing the budget was Bill Clinton, who had negative deficit for 1998 - 2001. Trump followed the exact same playbook as Bush - continue to raise the federal budget and give a bunch of tax breaks (mostly to the rich), while raising the deficit. Obama came in during the Great Recession, and he continued roughly the same Bush plan for dealing with it.

On the national debt, you point out that the elites are going to walk out of it and the middle and lower classes take the brunt. I agree that this is a distinct possibility. The Republican solution is to keep giving the elites more and more money through tax breaks. The Democratic solution is to undo the elite tax breaks so they pay a greater share.

*If* one's concern is that the middle and lower classes are taking undue burden for the national debt, then I would think that the Democratic solution makes more sense. I think the only way that the Republican deficit approach makes sense is if one believes in trickle-down theory, or "a rising tide lifts all boats".


3) They started raising the Interest Rate as soon as he got into office.  But his policies still enabled the economy to expand and the rate was almost back into the 'range' that economists like, then the Wu-Flu destroyed the economy. 
(He understood that Keynesian economics are not good long term, but he was trying to soften the blow as much as possible.  If you look at his ideas as a whole they all lean in that direction.)

As much as I despise the use of Keynesian economics to generate wealth off of the back of a serf class, I think he was trying to get people out from under the establishment yoke without collapsing everything.

I don't see how you think his policies accomplished this. Yes, the economy expanded under his first three years, though the economy expanded under Obama's second term as well. And his response to the covid economic crisis was roughly the same as Bush and Obama to the Great Recession - stimulus money.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: KingCheops on January 20, 2021, 08:18:52 PM
I told a friend a few years ago.  Donald Trump is rich but he isn't an 'elitist'.  He doesn't require a 'serf class'.  Look at his businesses.  Some people need bowing and scraping, but he doesn't.  He would be just as happy if we were all millionaires, because then we could all spend money at his golf courses, etc.

I used to make fun of him for being a shitty businessman but I've always liked the stories of how he treated people.  Flying that sick girl on his plane when no one else would.  Randomly walking into his restaurants and handing out $100s like they're candy.  The stories about the massive party he threw for the construction crews and their families when Caesar's Vegas was finished.  That's before even getting into the Mar-a-Lago thing.

I think his biggest problem is that he likes people and treats them well and goes into social interactions thinking that the other person will be the same.  Drop him into the shark tank that is Washington DC and you can see how that went wrong for him.  Most of his worst decisions were because he was trusting professional liars.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 20, 2021, 09:40:08 PM
Remember rawma was calling for liars to be punished.

That is not true, and I do not call for you to be punished for saying something untrue.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on January 20, 2021, 09:44:06 PM
Trump was always just a brand, and that was all he’d ever needed.  On trade, where he had talented people aligned with his desire, he succeeded.  And yes, the new NA trade pact is a success.  He didn’t hit the end goal with China.  There were also other US factions working against him on China, and China decided to wait and see who won 2020.

But everywhere else, he had people saying one thing and doing something else.  That’s on Trump; hiring is his responsibility.  He’d have been better off with the smallest admin staff ever who were aligned to him, than all the legions of establishment GOP he took in.  It’s not as if hiring Mitch’s wife accomplished any hard or soft objectives

But he felt a genuine sense of noblesse oblige, something long missing from US elites that everyday Americans responded to. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 20, 2021, 09:58:04 PM
Remember rawma was calling for liars to be punished.

That is not true, and I do not call for you to be punished for saying something untrue.

How ironic that we must punish rawma under the rawma protocols.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 20, 2021, 10:02:10 PM
Half of Trump's policy - and his biggest legislative agenda - was the traditional Republican playbook -- increase government spending and cut taxes across the board, running up the deficit. (The median American got around $1000 from the cuts, but the top 1% got $50,000.)

Where he departs from traditional is in his trade wars and restricted immigration. The benefit of those to the average American is unclear. I don't have a strong opinion, and opinion from economists seems highly varied.

1) $1000 to a median is a much bigger boost than $50,000 to a 1%'er...

   And I think the numbers are off.  As I said before, I do my own taxes and mine was about $2000 difference and I am near the median with no kids.  I'm guessing that wherever those numbers came from is using total taxes, not just federal.*

Because there was a fair amount of restructuring, there is a variance depending on who you are. But I've seen roughly this number from multiple sources. Here's one:

Quote
The Tax Policy Center estimates the 60% of Americans at the lower end of the income distribution will have federal tax savings of less than $1,000. Also, most people believe the tax cuts didn’t benefit people like them but only the very wealthy. They are right. Those in the top 1% save $51,000.
Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/teresaghilarducci/2019/04/09/five-good-reasons-it-doesnt-feel-like-the-trump-tax-cut-benefited-you/
cf also https://americansfortaxfairness.org/promise-will-middle-class-tax-cut/

They both come from the same source paper.  The source paper brings up the fact that the bottom quint includes the people who don't file/do not pay any income tax...but I noticed neither article points that out because it doesn't fit the narrative of 'orange man bad'...

Speaking of which, did you really source something that used 'latinx' as a category and then made everything about race? I noticed that they included asians in the chart, but left them out of the discussion.  Do you suppose that particular ethnic group might have skewed their imaging that no one but 'whitey' can succeed?  I'm not even going to get into the outright lie when they say no business loopholes were closed.

By definition, people who aren't paying income tax, can't have it reduced...You do realize that including a large number of people who either didn't pay any income tax before or else have their burden reduced to zero artificially reduces the 'per capita' tax break in that quint making it appear lower, right??

Do I need to set up some fractions or other advanced mathematical concepts to demonstrate that concept?

2) Restricted immigration raises wages by reducing the supply of workers. This can also raise prices but over the last 50 years the wage stagnation far outstrips any price increase that is due to reduced worker supply.

3) Trade wars and tariffs will cause similar effects, but again the fact that it is not true free trade has still caused prices to rise far faster than wages. 

   ...Would you allow a US company to use slave labor inside the border?  Setting aside the moral/ethical dilemma, economically it would give the company a significant advantage over competition.  Then why is it considered 'free' trade when you allow importers to do it?

4) Economists are never in consensus.  Everything is a series of trade-offs. 

Regarding these - #2 and #3 are a piece of #4. Yes, I've seen similar arguments about immigration, but those seem simplistic. Many people picture that there are a fixed number of jobs from the overlords, so if you double the population - then half the people are out of work. But that's obviously false. More people means more domestic market -- building more homes, shopping more, and so forth. That creates more jobs. And more work can also create more jobs, like how new homes creates new service jobs. The balance between positive and negative effects depends on the details of how immigration is handled.

As for slavery - that is overwhelmingly a moral/ethical question, not an economic one. I would love it if we set trade limits based more on morality rather than convenience - but that wasn't what the recent trade wars were about. We're still close partners with Saudi Arabia and other repressive countries.

Point 4 was included specifically as reference to your comment about economists not having a consensus...and I specifically excluded the moral/ethical argument about slavery because we were discussing economics.  Apparently fighting China in a trade war (for whatever reason) and reducing our energy dependence on countries like Saudi Arabia weren't enough for you.  I'm glad Biden is going to do more to support your moral/ethical outlook than Trump tried to do.  I bet ol' Joe really sticks it to the Chinese and the oppressive oil exporters.  All he has to do is finish Keystone so we can get more oil from better world citizens like Canada...oh wait, he cancelled that didn't he? Oopsie!

2 & 3 aren't 'simplistic'.  I specifically pointed out the good/bad duality.  I assumed everyone on the board had enough economic education that they didn't need the paragraph long explanation of how everything moved along the curve in little steps to equilibrium.  I'm not trying to pad a thesis here.  I also notice you had nothing to say about my actual point, which was that the wage stagnation over the years has been so pronounced that they would rise faster than prices at this point...


1) At this point, the damage that will come from stimulus, QE, etc. is going to be pretty devastating. 
(Hence, why the can keeps getting kicked down the road.) 

2) Everybody below upper-middle-class will get hit very hard, but the elites try and hide it by manipulating the data.
(Inflation is a big factor at that end of the income spectrum.  Notice which categories have been 'removed' from inflation rate calculations between 2000-2016.)

The only recent president who came close to balancing the budget was Bill Clinton, who had negative deficit for 1998 - 2001. Trump followed the exact same playbook as Bush - continue to raise the federal budget and give a bunch of tax breaks (mostly to the rich), while raising the deficit. Obama came in during the Great Recession, and he continued roughly the same Bush plan for dealing with it.

On the national debt, you point out that the elites are going to walk out of it and the middle and lower classes take the brunt. I agree that this is a distinct possibility. The Republican solution is to keep giving the elites more and more money through tax breaks. The Democratic solution is to undo the elite tax breaks so they pay a greater share.

*If* one's concern is that the middle and lower classes are taking undue burden for the national debt, then I would think that the Democratic solution makes more sense. I think the only way that the Republican deficit approach makes sense is if one believes in trickle-down theory, or "a rising tide lifts all boats".

OMG...You are actually going to bring Bill's 'budget surplus' into this discussion...now I know you aren't being serious...The 'federal budget' is a trojan horse because 2 of the top 3 outlays for federal dollars (SS and means-tested need *cough* welfare *cough* aren't included in the so called 'budget'...I mean I'd love to leave my house and car payments out of my personal budget but I don't think the credit agencies are gonna buy it.

3) They started raising the Interest Rate as soon as he got into office.  But his policies still enabled the economy to expand and the rate was almost back into the 'range' that economists like, then the Wu-Flu destroyed the economy. 
(He understood that Keynesian economics are not good long term, but he was trying to soften the blow as much as possible.  If you look at his ideas as a whole they all lean in that direction.)

As much as I despise the use of Keynesian economics to generate wealth off of the back of a serf class, I think he was trying to get people out from under the establishment yoke without collapsing everything.

I don't see how you think his policies accomplished this. Yes, the economy expanded under his first three years, though the economy expanded under Obama's second term as well. And his response to the covid economic crisis was roughly the same as Bush and Obama to the Great Recession - stimulus money.

Yes, Trump raised the budget.  You 'forgot' to note that the rising interest rates mean that the economy was doing significantly better than under either predecessor.  That allows for the reduction of the stimulus over time which is moving in the right direction, at least compared to Bush and Obama.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 20, 2021, 10:24:01 PM
Funny how the 'winner' desperately needed 30,000+ NG, 'properly vetted', to protect him during his own inauguration.

But that's none of my business *sip*

It's scary that you're NG has a anti-democratic traitor in their ranks.

Really...a Traitor??...Wow!

Do you have a link to the charges?

Luckily they didn't need to be charged because they didn't have the opportunity to fulfill whatever traitorous agenda was in their heads.

No coup for you.

Oh...So you lied about them being traitors then.

Apparently they must not have done anything untoward if there are also no USCMJ charges, since those are a bit more strict...

When did I ask for a coup? ???

Mibbe eh mibbe naw.

Well, first...you would be easier to understand if you spit Biden's dick out before trying to talk...

Anybody who doesn't accept the democratic will if the American people is a traitor.

That's better.  ;)

Uhhh...well that's a first.  I never heard anyone call MLK a traitor for opposing laws that were properly passed...except maybe he was called that by the FBI, that bastion of all that is good and holy in the US.

To be a member of the armed forces and not be trustworthy to defend the President marks you out.
Unless the President might be one of those 'domestic enemies' who is actually in the service of another nation like Russia, right?

True Americans should look to upholding the democratic traditions of the nation.

But only those 'traditions' that you actually support, right?





Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 21, 2021, 12:37:37 AM
Trump was always just a brand, and that was all he’d ever needed.  On trade, where he had talented people aligned with his desire, he succeeded.  And yes, the new NA trade pact is a success.  He didn’t hit the end goal with China.  There were also other US factions working against him on China, and China decided to wait and see who won 2020.

But everywhere else, he had people saying one thing and doing something else.  That’s on Trump; hiring is his responsibility.  He’d have been better off with the smallest admin staff ever who were aligned to him, than all the legions of establishment GOP he took in.  It’s not as if hiring Mitch’s wife accomplished any hard or soft objectives
I think part of that was lack of experience with government workers/politicians.  It wasn't his area of expertise and I think he trusted people to put the country's interest ahead of their own if they were working on the taxpayer dime.  Just a bit naive.  I still think that was why they targeted Flynn from day one.  He wasn't an establishment type.  Combine that with having to explain the illegal FISA warrant.  They were able to remove his best go-to person and bundle up a sham investigation to hamstring him all in one swoop.
But he felt a genuine sense of noblesse oblige, something long missing from US elites that everyday Americans responded to.
He is one of the few people in the last 50 years that would have probably been a good king in a monarchy.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: GameDaddy on January 21, 2021, 01:00:07 AM
OMG...You are actually going to bring Bill's 'budget surplus' into this discussion...now I know you aren't being serious...The 'federal budget' is a trojan horse because 2 of the top 3 outlays for federal dollars (SS and means-tested need *cough* welfare *cough* aren't included in the so called 'budget'...I mean I'd love to leave my house and car payments out of my personal budget but I don't think the credit agencies are gonna buy it.

Just a couple comments here... Mark my words, Joe is certainly not going to stick it to the Chinese, mostly because, ...they hold his leash, and have since about 2012 or so. They also hold yet another leash on the Federal Deficit.

Social Seurity is a problem the government brought upon itself. The American taxpayer ponied up monies that go into that fund, Which should be invested and provide a return but Congress has looted social security to prop up the rest of the budget, including, you know... Defense and ...paying back what they looted along with paying the interest bill on the deficit they have run up. Medicare/Medicaid, and SNAP/Unemployment make up the next biggest categories of annual Federal Spending that Social Security $$$ goes towards. They haven't figured out how to pay back the social security fund yet. My guess is they will borrow money and raise the federal deficit right up until they can't anymore.

Just recently the Chinese bought almost a Trillion dollars of the federal deficit, and are collecting the interest payments on that. It's like they bought Boardwalk in the Monopoly game and the Federal Government stays there, and pays them, every time they come around the board. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 21, 2021, 01:52:28 AM
OMG...You are actually going to bring Bill's 'budget surplus' into this discussion...now I know you aren't being serious...The 'federal budget' is a trojan horse because 2 of the top 3 outlays for federal dollars (SS and means-tested need *cough* welfare *cough* aren't included in the so called 'budget'...I mean I'd love to leave my house and car payments out of my personal budget but I don't think the credit agencies are gonna buy it.

Just a couple comments here... Mark my words, Joe is certainly not going to stick it to the Chinese, mostly because, ...they hold his leash, and have since about 2012 or so. They also hold yet another leash on the Federal Deficit.
Yeah, I mentioned that a couple of posts back

Social Seurity is a problem the government brought upon itself forced upon the citizens illegally. The American taxpayer ponied up monies that go into that fund, Which should be invested and provide a return but Congress has looted social security to prop up the rest of the budget, including, you know... Defense and ...paying back what they looted along with paying the interest bill on the deficit they have run up. Medicare/Medicaid, and SNAP/Unemployment make up the next biggest categories of annual Federal Spending that Social Security $$$ goes towards. They haven't figured out how to pay back the social security fund yet. My guess is they will borrow money and raise the federal deficit right up until they can't anymore.

Just recently the Chinese bought almost a Trillion dollars of the federal deficit, and are collecting the interest payments on that. It's like they bought Boardwalk in the Monopoly game and the Federal Government stays there, and pays them, every time they come around the board.

FTFY.    :)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on January 21, 2021, 03:05:05 AM
There is no way to invest the social security intake in any practical measure.  People do not want that money going into the stock market (and they'd have to change the law to do so). 

Social security could go into US Government general obligation bonds...when a bond is purchased that social security money that purchased it would go into the general fund.  The social security asset would have "a bond".  And then you'd have a fictitious, meaningless accounting mechanism where the government would pay itself interest raised by your taxes...out of the general fund...to repay the social security "trust fund" and redeem the bond. 

it's all bullshit.  There's zero difference between that and doing what they do, which is dump the revenue into the general fund, and pay benefits out of the general fund.  "It's supposed to go into a trust" was always bullshit and people over 60 need to start figuring that out.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 21, 2021, 08:19:17 AM

Anybody who doesn't accept the democratic will if the American people is a traitor. To be a member of the armed forces and not be trustworthy to defend the President marks you out. True Americans should look to upholding the democratic traditions of the nation.
Wow, usually they don't walk into the buzzsaw that easily.

Shall we discuss the last four years of nonstop 'resistance'?

Or we can ride the Wayback Machine and check out how the left treated Dubya.

Yeah, you can go fuck yourself, Mr. Rules-For-Thee-But-Not-For-Me.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Trond on January 21, 2021, 01:13:47 PM
One of the first things Antifa did was to start rampaging again.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/antifa-smash-window-democratic-headquarters-attack-police
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 21, 2021, 01:39:50 PM
One of the first things Antifa did was to start rampaging again.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/antifa-smash-window-democratic-headquarters-attack-police
The fact that the batons didn't come out for Pantifa is interesting. I have a bad feeling these goons are going to be the left's brownshirts for further attacks on nonconforming citizens.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on January 21, 2021, 01:50:19 PM
Let Mistwell tap dance - he’s been savoring the arrival of this moment for a long time

File that away, and vote against every candidate from the GOP he prefers, in 2022 primaries. 

Victors get to tap dance if the feel it’s wise.

You think I have a list of preferred candidates? Come on dude, I am in Los Angeles. I am forced to choose the least turdtastic Democrat most of the time. Best I can do is vote for a Republican city councilperson or board of education member who favors Charter Schools. And I can try and help recall Newsom, which I am actively doing.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on January 21, 2021, 01:52:46 PM
Let Mistwell tap dance - he’s been savoring the arrival of this moment for a long time

File that away, and vote against every candidate from the GOP he prefers, in 2022 primaries. 

Victors get to tap dance if the feel it’s wise.

Let him have his moment, his side cheated and won fair and square.

If your "team" is so incompetent they cannot prove to a single court, after dozens and dozens of court case filings, that any fraud took place then you don't deserve to win. Incompetence on that level is frankly epic.  And the idea that the Democratic party has their shit together sufficient to defeat that many court cases about "legit" fraud is preposterously stupid.

Face the possibility Trump actually lost the election. Because that turns out to be the truth.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 21, 2021, 02:35:35 PM
One of the first things Antifa did was to start rampaging again.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/antifa-smash-window-democratic-headquarters-attack-police

Damn those right wing white supremacist mega lovers!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 21, 2021, 02:56:25 PM
One of the first things Antifa did was to start rampaging again.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/antifa-smash-window-democratic-headquarters-attack-police



Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 21, 2021, 08:30:48 PM
Uncle Joe wants children and teachers to catch Covid.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/21/politics/school-reopening-biden-100-days/index.html

What a science denier.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Trond on January 21, 2021, 09:06:53 PM
One of the first things Antifa did was to start rampaging again.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/antifa-smash-window-democratic-headquarters-attack-police

Damn those right wing white supremacist mega lovers!

Proud Boys for short.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 21, 2021, 09:14:44 PM
One of the first things Antifa did was to start rampaging again.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/antifa-smash-window-democratic-headquarters-attack-police

Damn those right wing white supremacist mega lovers!

Proud Boys for short.

I always liked the term 'Buffalo Soldiers' after the King of Capitol Hill.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 21, 2021, 09:18:44 PM
In three weeks of January, we've had Insurrection, Impeachment, Inauguration. It's too much to hope for Inoculation next week but we might have an actual plan by then, so that's good. I'll probably enjoy some Ice Cream next week to celebrate the invigorating normalcy, which is scheduled to last another 48 months.

When the Republicans fragment, I hope some of them revive the Whig Party, just so members who deviate from the party line can be denounced as WINOs (Whigs In Name Only).
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Trond on January 21, 2021, 09:46:34 PM
One of the first things Antifa did was to start rampaging again.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/antifa-smash-window-democratic-headquarters-attack-police

Damn those right wing white supremacist mega lovers!

Proud Boys for short.

I always liked the term 'Buffalo Soldiers' after the King of Capitol Hill.

They’ll come for the women next

(https://i0.wp.com/metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/ad_234865760.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&zoom=1&resize=480%2C320&ssl=1)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 21, 2021, 09:57:22 PM
They’ll come for the women next

See its not all bad news.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 21, 2021, 10:40:13 PM
Actually, the women already are having issues...

Girls can now kiss their college athletic scholarships goodbye.
Although in my estimation, that will be a net positive.  The feminists will now get a chance to see what happens when females are second class.  Not to mention what it will do to pro sports.

I almost wish I had some gasoline to dump on the fire.

I think I will just sit back and watch Antifa continue to riot and women get pushed back into the corner.

...and laugh.  Because just like Canada selling their oil to China and the US having to buddy up more with Saudi Arabia, I will enjoy Biden supporters getting exactly what they voted for.

side note: Does no one in the White House have even a rudimentary knowledge of American history?  Who the hell convinced Biden to put up a bust of Cesar Chavez?
That is truly an epic ROFL. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 22, 2021, 06:34:52 AM
Let's see, one day into this new era of normalcy, we've had a speech that called for unity while taking shots at the other side, peaceful protests in Seattle and Portland where leftist with Molotovs and crowbars unseditiously attacked federal buildings, Senate Democrats upholding norms by refusing to agree to uphold the long-standing norm of the filibuster, and now Peter Robb has been fired. He's the general counsel of the National Labor Relations Board, a 4-year Senate-confirmed position at an independent agency, and had 10 months left in his term. No NLRB general counsel has ever been fired, including Richard Griffin, an Obama appointee, who served out the remaining 9 months of his term in 2017 under Trump. Yet with minutes of Biden taking the oath of office, Robb was told to resign by the end of the day, or be fired. Robb respectfully declined in a letter where he pointed out these facts, and was kicked out the door.

The completely precedented day one firing also happened to Kathy Kraninger, the director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, whose position was explicitly created, under the Obama administration, so the director could only be fired for inefficiency, neglect of duty or malfeasance. Fortunately that stiff standard was overthrown by the courts, who supported the unitary executive authority of You're Fired! Specifically, it was overthrown by the judge loved and adored by Democrats everywhere, Brett Kavanaugh.

Perfectly normal. So normal.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 22, 2021, 08:16:41 AM
Let's see, one day into this new era of normalcy, we've had a speech that called for unity while taking shots at the other side, peaceful protests in Seattle and Portland where leftist with Molotovs and crowbars unseditiously attacked federal buildings, Senate Democrats upholding norms by refusing to agree to uphold the long-standing norm of the filibuster, and now Peter Robb has been fired. He's the general counsel of the National Labor Relations Board, a 4-year Senate-confirmed position at an independent agency, and had 10 months left in his term. No NLRB general counsel has ever been fired, including Richard Griffin, an Obama appointee, who served out the remaining 9 months of his term in 2017 under Trump. Yet with minutes of Biden taking the oath of office, Robb was told to resign by the end of the day, or be fired. Robb respectfully declined in a letter where he pointed out these facts, and was kicked out the door.

The completely precedented day one firing also happened to Kathy Kraninger, the director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, whose position was explicitly created, under the Obama administration, so the director could only be fired for inefficiency, neglect of duty or malfeasance. Fortunately that stiff standard was overthrown by the courts, who supported the unitary executive authority of You're Fired! Specifically, it was overthrown by the judge loved and adored by Democrats everywhere, Brett Kavanaugh.

Perfectly normal. So normal.
In defense, the entire CFPB is a scam.

That being said, though, it amuses me how much 'unity' we're seeing even among Democrats. Rashida Tlaib is arguing against expanding police powers to target domestic terrorism (whether it's on principle or she's worried fellow Muslims will get swept up in the net is up to you). The Biden Administration ran a line about how they were 'starting from scratch' with vaccine distribution, only to be contradicted by Fauci.

Good times.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 22, 2021, 12:45:20 PM
That being said, though, it amuses me how much 'unity' we're seeing even among Democrats. Rashida Tlaib is arguing against expanding police powers to target domestic terrorism (whether it's on principle or she's worried fellow Muslims will get swept up in the net is up to you).
Ilhan Omar also came out against it on Twitter, which surprised me.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 22, 2021, 02:28:28 PM
Biden adminiatration lies about vaccination rates and then Biden snaps at reporters when called out.

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22243713/biden-covid-19-coronavirus-vaccine-goal-100-million-100-days
https://news.yahoo.com/biden-admonishes-reporter-questioning-whether-211143831.html

Great start, you lying old fuck.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on January 22, 2021, 02:53:23 PM
Biden adminiatration lies about vaccination rates and then Biden snaps at reporters when called out.

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22243713/biden-covid-19-coronavirus-vaccine-goal-100-million-100-days
https://news.yahoo.com/biden-admonishes-reporter-questioning-whether-211143831.html

Great start, you lying old fuck.

Oh NOW you have issues with the President telling bald faced lies to the press about Covid? Seriously? (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/11/trumps-lies-about-coronavirus/608647/)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 22, 2021, 03:06:01 PM
Biden adminiatration lies about vaccination rates and then Biden snaps at reporters when called out.

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22243713/biden-covid-19-coronavirus-vaccine-goal-100-million-100-days
https://news.yahoo.com/biden-admonishes-reporter-questioning-whether-211143831.html

Great start, you lying old fuck.

Oh NOW you have issues with the President telling bald faced lies to the press about Covid? Seriously? (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/11/trumps-lies-about-coronavirus/608647/)

I did had problems with it. You just didn't notice until it was Biden.

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/57595609_2494676757233398_6356789307339964416_n.png?_nc_cat=109&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=zh9OXNwiIk4AX-2QcG6&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=9fd88b82ccfb29696185a10317c72089&oe=6031590F)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 22, 2021, 03:37:11 PM
I see that China Joe has signed his Executive Order requiring everyone else (except for himself) to wear masks on federal land.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 22, 2021, 03:51:12 PM
Biden adminiatration lies about vaccination rates and then Biden snaps at reporters when called out.

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22243713/biden-covid-19-coronavirus-vaccine-goal-100-million-100-days
https://news.yahoo.com/biden-admonishes-reporter-questioning-whether-211143831.html

Great start, you lying old fuck.

Oh NOW you have issues with the President telling bald faced lies to the press about Covid? Seriously? (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/11/trumps-lies-about-coronavirus/608647/)

Did you actually read that Atlantic article?

I like how Trump was 'lying' when he said 85% of mask wearers caught the virus, because that made it sound like someone was more likely to catch the virus if they wore a mask...

Quote
When: Multiple times
The claim: A CDC study shows that “85 percent of the people wearing masks catch” the virus.
The truth: The CDC study that the president cited in interviews does not suggest that people who wear masks get the virus at higher rates than those who don’t, CNN reported. The lie also distorts the purpose of mask-wearing, which is chiefly to protect other people from the virus, not to protect only the mask-wearer herself.

While there some accurate assessments in that article, the level of straw-manning is truly epic.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 22, 2021, 03:54:21 PM
I see that China Joe has signed his Executive Order requiring everyone else (except for himself and his family) to wear masks on federal land.

I fixed it for you, Shasarak.

You don't want to be accused of lying (or inducing insurrections) now do you?  ;)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 22, 2021, 03:57:14 PM
I see that China Joe has signed his Executive Order requiring everyone else (except for himself and his family) to wear masks on federal land.

I fixed it for you, Shasarak.

You don't want to be accused of lying (or inducing insurrections) now do you?  ;)

Thank you for not enacting the rawma protocols on me!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 22, 2021, 04:35:53 PM
There's been a purge of a number of Antifa groups from Twitter:
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1352399672594345985
Does that mean the mostly peaceful and perfectly justified protests in Portland and Seattle during the inauguration have been upgraded to terrorist insurrections against sacred American institutions?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 22, 2021, 06:39:08 PM
I see that China Joe has signed his Executive Order requiring everyone else (except for himself and his family) to wear masks on federal land.

I fixed it for you, Shasarak.

You don't want to be accused of lying (or inducing insurrections) now do you?  ;)

Thank you for not enacting the rawma protocols on me!

no problem
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 22, 2021, 06:52:39 PM
There's been a purge of a number of Antifa groups from Twitter:
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1352399672594345985
Does that mean the mostly peaceful and perfectly justified protests in Portland and Seattle during the inauguration have been upgraded to terrorist insurrections against sacred American institutions?

Yep.  The riots have to be about 'Trump' not the radical leftists.  Now that he is gone, they have to get it shut the fuck down.  The problem is, I don't think they can.  That is why you don't let that genie out.  They can say what they want about the riot at the Capitol, but it was not really 'organized' beyond maybe a few people getting together and saying 'let's storm the gates and break some things' type of stuff.  If they can't get Antifa shut down, that will send signals to the actual militia groups that violence is on the table.

I also think this is why Tlaib was opposed to the 'domestic terror' broadening.  Local law enforcement will use the expansion to cause issues for her buddies and the other leftist rioters in the non-woke areas.

Antifa is touchy and Kamala just got escorted to the inauguration by a cop... 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 22, 2021, 07:03:08 PM
Antifa is touchy and Kamala just got escorted to the inauguration by a cop...

I would have thought being a Prosecutor is even worse optics then that...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: KingCheops on January 22, 2021, 07:31:50 PM
I also think this is why Tlaib was opposed to the 'domestic terror' broadening.  Local law enforcement will use the expansion to cause issues for her buddies and the other leftist rioters in the non-woke areas.

Well I mean now that the money is going to start flowing to Iran again how else are her friends supposed to commit acts of terror if the police are clamping down on them.  I mean Trump already killed Soleimani -- how much more difficult do you want to make it for her backers?  You Islamaphobes!

Deus Vult!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Trond on January 22, 2021, 10:34:41 PM
I see that China Joe has signed his Executive Order requiring everyone else (except for himself) to wear masks on federal land.

Don’t worry, I’m pretty sure it fits Rawma’s definition of “consistency”.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: deathknight4044 on January 22, 2021, 11:47:29 PM
Looks like the continuation and expansion of forever wars is back on the menu
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 23, 2021, 12:06:42 AM
Looks like the continuation and expansion of forever wars is back on the menu

Not to worry.  Killing some brown people on the far side of the world is a small price to pay to remove  the reincarnation of Adolf Hitler from the Presidency...and if those dirty Canadians hadn't stabbed us in the back by deciding to sell their oil to China, Biden wouldn't have had to resort to such measures to secure replacement suppliers.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: deathknight4044 on January 23, 2021, 12:43:55 AM
Looks like the continuation and expansion of forever wars is back on the menu

Not to worry.  Killing some brown people on the far side of the world is a small price to pay to remove  the reincarnation of Adolf Hitler from the Presidency...and if those dirty Canadians hadn't stabbed is in the back by deciding to sell their oil to China, Biden wouldn't have had to resort to such measures to secure replacement suppliers.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on January 23, 2021, 12:53:36 AM
Let's see, one day into this new era of normalcy, we've had a speech that called for unity while taking shots at the other side,

Biden calls out racism, nativism, political extremism, white supremacy and domestic terrorism, so of course Republicans immediately wail that he's attacking them. Maybe the solution is not to identify with those forces?

Quote
peaceful protests in Seattle and Portland where leftist with Molotovs and crowbars unseditiously attacked federal buildings,

Democrats in general and Joe Biden in particular have condemned violent protests, repeatedly; Republicans incited such. It's no accident that the protesters described carried anti-Biden signs while the insurrectionists on January 6th considered themselves to be following Donald Trump's orders and hoped for pardons from him.

Quote
Senate Democrats upholding norms by refusing to agree to uphold the long-standing norm of the filibuster

The Constitution calls for simple majority votes with few exceptions (of which the filibuster is not one); Alexander Hamilton wrote "But this is not all: what at first sight may seem a remedy, is, in reality, a poison. To give a minority a negative upon the majority (which is always the case where more than a majority is requisite to a decision), is, in its tendency, to subject the sense of the greater number to that of the lesser." I can see why it appeals to Republicans, who tried to ignore the majority of voters last fall and have previously demonstrated that their only interest with a Democratic president is to obstruct, but it's not like they respected it when they controlled the Senate.

Quote
, and now Peter Robb has been fired.

Extremist, appointed by an incompetent President who incited insurrection, is fired by new administration; a good move. I'm more interested in Michael Ellis, NSA general counsel - another extremist who was apparently improperly placed in a civil service position over more qualified candidates. Ellis is now on administrative leave while the circumstances are investigated.

No surprise that Pat is channeling so many right wing talking points.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: deathknight4044 on January 23, 2021, 03:22:17 AM
Quote
Extremist, appointed by an incompetent President who incited insurrection, is fired by new administration; a good move. I'm more interested in Michael Ellis, NSA general counsel - another extremist who was apparently improperly placed in a civil service position over more qualified candidates. Ellis is now on administrative leave while the circumstances are investigated.

Extremists like these?

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1352176462170873857?s=19
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1352186143807315969?s=19

Or are they still just ideas? Ideas that terrorized the country for about 7 months this year and were either ignored, downplayed, or outright supported by leftist politicians.

Ita apparent your pearl clutching and moralizing is very selective. Hows this for moralizing, next time youre at a VA take a look around at all the young people with PTSD and missing limbs and just know you voted for a guy that's committed to ramping up and continuing this cycle of endless forever wars.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: deathknight4044 on January 23, 2021, 03:31:31 AM
Quote
Democrats in general and Joe Biden in particular have condemned violent protests, repeatedly; Republicans incited such. It's no accident that the protesters described carried anti-Biden signs while the insurrectionists on January 6th considered themselves to be following Donald Trump's orders and hoped for pardons from him
.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: deathknight4044 on January 23, 2021, 03:34:31 AM
Let's see, one day into this new era of normalcy, we've had a speech that called for unity while taking shots at the other side,

Biden calls out racism, nativism, political extremism, white supremacy and domestic terrorism, so of course Republicans immediately wail that he's attacking them. Maybe the solution is not to identify with those forces?

Quote
peaceful protests in Seattle and Portland where leftist with Molotovs and crowbars unseditiously attacked federal buildings,

Democrats in general and Joe Biden in particular have condemned violent protests, repeatedly; Republicans incited such. It's no accident that the protesters described carried anti-Biden signs while the insurrectionists on January 6th considered themselves to be following Donald Trump's orders and hoped for pardons from him.

Quote
Senate Democrats upholding norms by refusing to agree to uphold the long-standing norm of the filibuster

The Constitution calls for simple majority votes with few exceptions (of which the filibuster is not one); Alexander Hamilton wrote "But this is not all: what at first sight may seem a remedy, is, in reality, a poison. To give a minority a negative upon the majority (which is always the case where more than a majority is requisite to a decision), is, in its tendency, to subject the sense of the greater number to that of the lesser." I can see why it appeals to Republicans, who tried to ignore the majority of voters last fall and have previously demonstrated that their only interest with a Democratic president is to obstruct, but it's not like they respected it when they controlled the Senate.

Quote
, and now Peter Robb has been fired.

Extremist, appointed by an incompetent President who incited insurrection, is fired by new administration; a good move. I'm more interested in Michael Ellis, NSA general counsel - another extremist who was apparently improperly placed in a civil service position over more qualified candidates. Ellis is now on administrative leave while the circumstances are investigated.

No surprise that Pat is channeling so many right wing talking points.

It should be amusing watching you squirm and try to justify more conflict in the middle east or how those politicians weren't *actually* calling for more riots.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on January 23, 2021, 04:09:43 AM
Someday the right will understand the left, that it truly sees nothing contradictory in its position(s).  Then after it stops trying to win consistency arguments it might be able to provide competition culturally, again
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 23, 2021, 04:23:42 AM
Someday the right will understand the left, that it truly sees nothing contradictory in its position(s).  Then after it stops trying to win consistency arguments it might be able to provide competition culturally, again

Its just a natural result of having too many women in positions of power.

Two faced back stabbing
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Elfdart on January 23, 2021, 06:16:18 AM
Quote
Extremist, appointed by an incompetent President who incited insurrection, is fired by new administration; a good move. I'm more interested in Michael Ellis, NSA general counsel - another extremist who was apparently improperly placed in a civil service position over more qualified candidates. Ellis is now on administrative leave while the circumstances are investigated.

Extremists like these?

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1352176462170873857?s=19
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1352186143807315969?s=19

You do realize that those tweets are from a sockpuppet account, right? The real Andy Ngo hasn't been able to post anything since he was given severe brain damage after being pelted with a CONCRETE MILKSHAKE last summer.

Quote
Or are they still just ideas? Ideas that terrorized the country for about 7 months this year and were either ignored, downplayed, or outright supported by leftist politicians.

Few things can make a white supremacist piss their pants like the "coloreds" getting all surly about being beaten, tortured and murdered. Any signs of displeasure from from the dark-skinned folk are the most terrifying things imaginable.

The overwhelming majority of BLM demonstrations had no violence or vandalism. Apparently you're too stupid, racist or dishonest (or all of the above) to notice this. Not that it matters, because whether those demonstrating are being peaceful and orderly while wearing their Sunday best, or acting like football hooligans, what gets white supremacists all hysterical isn't smashed windows or burnt trash cans -it's the fear that the natives are getting restless.

But what's really funny is how apologists for the January 6 fascists try to justify their bungled coup by bringing up the worst from the BLM demonstrations -without mentioning that a lot of the vandalism, arson and violence was carried out by Boogaloo Boys, white supremacists and other agents provocateur:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErqW7JXXYAELI4D?format=jpg)

(https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1349556984689917952/photo/3)

(https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1349556984689917952/photo/4)

LINK (https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/umbrella-man-who-smashed-mn-autozone-was-white-supremacist-cops-say)

Quote
For months, activists and police have sought the identity of a figure who became known as “umbrella man” — a black-clad, anonymous vandal who took a hammer to a Minneapolis AutoZone in late May, just two days after the police killing of George Floyd.

Onlookers at the time suspected the man was an agent provocateur uninterested in racial justice.

On Tuesday, authorities said the mystery may have been solved.

In a search warrant affidavit first reported by the Minneapolis Star Tribune, a police arson investigator alleged that the man was Mitchell Wesley Carlson, a member of the Hells Angels biker gang and an associate of the white supremacist prison gang Aryan Cowboy Brotherhood. The Wall Street Journal subsequently reported Tuesday that a judge had signed off on the police request to look through Carlson’s phone records.

“The actions of this person created an atmosphere of hostility and tension,” the arson investigator, Erika Christensen, wrote to the court. “Your affiant believes that this individual’s sole aim was to incite violence.”

"But... but... they were Antifa double-agents! George Soros made them do it!"






Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Elfdart on January 23, 2021, 06:18:13 AM
It should be amusing watching you squirm and try to justify more conflict in the middle east or how those politicians weren't *actually* calling for more riots.

Apparently, you don't know the difference between a protest and a riot.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Elfdart on January 23, 2021, 06:21:43 AM
Let's see, one day into this new era of normalcy, we've had a speech that called for unity while taking shots at the other side, peaceful protests in Seattle and Portland where leftist with Molotovs and crowbars unseditiously attacked federal buildings, Senate Democrats upholding norms by refusing to agree to uphold the long-standing norm of the filibuster, and now Peter Robb has been fired. He's the general counsel of the National Labor Relations Board, a 4-year Senate-confirmed position at an independent agency, and had 10 months left in his term. No NLRB general counsel has ever been fired, including Richard Griffin, an Obama appointee, who served out the remaining 9 months of his term in 2017 under Trump. Yet with minutes of Biden taking the oath of office, Robb was told to resign by the end of the day, or be fired. Robb respectfully declined in a letter where he pointed out these facts, and was kicked out the door.

The completely precedented day one firing also happened to Kathy Kraninger, the director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, whose position was explicitly created, under the Obama administration, so the director could only be fired for inefficiency, neglect of duty or malfeasance. Fortunately that stiff standard was overthrown by the courts, who supported the unitary executive authority of You're Fired! Specifically, it was overthrown by the judge loved and adored by Democrats everywhere, Brett Kavanaugh.

Perfectly normal. So normal.

Trump fired the White House usher on his last day in office. Presidents fire people.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Abraxus on January 23, 2021, 06:48:10 AM
Oh NOW you have issues with the President telling bald faced lies to the press about Covid? Seriously? (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/11/trumps-lies-about-coronavirus/608647/)

Now you suddenly have issues with it. Certainly had no problems when they called Trump put on Covid and other topics. Let me guess hands off on Biden because he is not Trump am I right.

I did had problems with it. You just didn't notice until it was Biden.

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/57595609_2494676757233398_6356789307339964416_n.png?_nc_cat=109&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=zh9OXNwiIk4AX-2QcG6&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=9fd88b82ccfb29696185a10317c72089&oe=6031590F)

Or even care about it. Yet suddenly now that it's Biden it's all GO Go Biden Rangers! the press can only psuh back when it's Trump.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Abraxus on January 23, 2021, 07:00:01 AM
As usual the Leftist are downplaying and outright ignoring the continued violence of Thugtifa, the fact that Biden increased the USA military presence in the Middle East in his first week of office. While also lashing out at Trump.

Hypocrisy continues and the continuation of the carefully constructed personal narratives as well. Hypocrites gonna be hypocrites I guess.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 23, 2021, 08:46:30 AM
No surprise that Pat is channeling so many right wing talking points.
It's full of nothing but lies! Time to enact the rawma protocols!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 23, 2021, 08:50:22 AM
Apparently, you don't know the difference between a protest and a riot.
Peaceful protests involve chainsaws, Molotov's, and buildings burning down. Seditious riots involve people being invited in by police, and selfies.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Trond on January 23, 2021, 09:40:00 AM
Apparently, you don't know the difference between a protest and a riot.
Peaceful protests involve chainsaws, Molotov's, and buildings burning down. Seditious riots involve people being invited in by police, and selfies.

I’m so pissed off at the “mostly peaceful” protests we had here in LA. One store was looted right in front of my eyes, and others were putting up BLM and George Floyd supporting slogans in a panic.  It looked like a bloody protection racket to both my wife and I, confirmed by at least some news outlets.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 23, 2021, 03:05:12 PM
Apparently, you don't know the difference between a protest and a riot.
Peaceful protests involve chainsaws, Molotov's, and buildings burning down. Seditious riots involve people being invited in by police, and selfies.

I’m so pissed off at the “mostly peaceful” protests we had here in LA. One store was looted right in front of my eyes, and others were putting up BLM and George Floyd supporting slogans in a panic.  It looked like a bloody protection racket to both my wife and I, confirmed by at least some news outlets.
Wouldn't help. Those bastards were looting and burning black owned businesses too.

But hey, just another sacrifice on the road to utopia, right?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 23, 2021, 03:29:55 PM
You do realize that those tweets are from a sockpuppet account, right? The real Andy Ngo hasn't been able to post anything since he was given severe brain damage after being pelted with a CONCRETE MILKSHAKE last summer.

Severely brain damaged reporter Andy Ngo writes top ten selling book: Unmasked Inside Antifa's Radical Plan to Destroy Democracy

https://www.amazon.com/Unmasked-Antifas-Radical-Destroy-Democracy/dp/154605958X (https://www.amazon.com/Unmasked-Antifas-Radical-Destroy-Democracy/dp/154605958X)

Whiny losers complain he is taking opportunites away from real minorities.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 23, 2021, 07:18:03 PM
Biden admin freezes Trump HHS rule meant to lower insulin prices.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-trump-hhs-rule-lower-insulin-prices

Orange Man Bad, and fuck poor people getting affordable insulin and epinephrine.

What a douchebag.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Tubesock Army on January 23, 2021, 11:20:20 PM
Dominion has just slapped the everloving shit out of Sydney Powell.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/dominion-voting-systems-files-1-195836812.html
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on January 23, 2021, 11:32:43 PM
What was the size of the judgement against her?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Tubesock Army on January 23, 2021, 11:40:25 PM
Wait and see.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 23, 2021, 11:42:18 PM
What was the size of the judgement against her?

Like all evil corporations they want:

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2d/dd/f5/2dddf5bd0fd43a5341351e96f7dc8f75.jpg)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on January 24, 2021, 03:28:47 AM
Wait and see.

From past tense to future maybe
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 24, 2021, 09:36:15 AM
Read an article on how the tech companies are being extremely helpful in providing data to prosecute anyone illegally in the Capital on 1/6/21. Apparently they're getting the warrants through on trespassing based on location data and then digging through other data to build bigger cases. The article says it's not chilling to free speech because it is only going after those already committing a crime (trespass), but it sounds biased as fuck. I'd link but I'm on a phone and I figure that anyone that's interested can find it themselves.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: GameDaddy on January 24, 2021, 10:41:28 AM
What was the size of the judgement against her?

None. yet. The case is just beginning, and Dominion is throwing around big numbers in an attempt to intimidate Sydney into settling. Their only problem is she is an attorney and had already gathered Affidavits, Statements and Complaints from people participating in running the elections, as well as Depositions from people directly involved in operating the machines. The fun part begins right now, and is called Discovery, where she has to provide what she in fact has, and Dominion does as well. Then, with all civil suits, each party has to convince the Jury, or Judge, as the case may be, that they are right.

All Sydney has to do is demonstrate the machines don't work as advertised, or that they can be easily manipulated or modified, by any group intent on cheating during the election.

I'll wager right now, this case will be quietly settled with a gag order because if the truth gets these machines were literally designed for cheating, then the entire election process is borked. Just like the banks are too big to fail, the election is too big to throw. I'm watching this case with interest.
     
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 24, 2021, 12:01:01 PM
Read an article on how the tech companies are being extremely helpful in providing data to prosecute anyone illegally in the Capital on 1/6/21. Apparently they're getting the warrants through on trespassing based on location data and then digging through other data to build bigger cases. The article says it's not chilling to free speech because it is only going after those already committing a crime (trespass), but it sounds biased as fuck. I'd link but I'm on a phone and I figure that anyone that's interested can find it themselves.

Yeah.  I remember a different response from Apple during the San Bernardino shooting...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 24, 2021, 02:39:40 PM
Read an article on how the tech companies are being extremely helpful in providing data to prosecute anyone illegally in the Capital on 1/6/21. Apparently they're getting the warrants through on trespassing based on location data and then digging through other data to build bigger cases. The article says it's not chilling to free speech because it is only going after those already committing a crime (trespass), but it sounds biased as fuck. I'd link but I'm on a phone and I figure that anyone that's interested can find it themselves.

Yeah.  I remember a different response from Apple during the San Bernardino shooting...
That was about unlocking a user-secured device, right? This is a little different as it isn't about unlocking the device itself, but of the companies giving the FBI data from their web-based services and all of the things on the devices that those services have user-given permissions to access (like location). IOW, it sounds like all of those user agreements that people don't read and the menus of cross-app access that people quickly click by are what are going to be used to bite some of these people in their asses.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 24, 2021, 05:19:12 PM
Read an article on how the tech companies are being extremely helpful in providing data to prosecute anyone illegally in the Capital on 1/6/21. Apparently they're getting the warrants through on trespassing based on location data and then digging through other data to build bigger cases. The article says it's not chilling to free speech because it is only going after those already committing a crime (trespass), but it sounds biased as fuck. I'd link but I'm on a phone and I figure that anyone that's interested can find it themselves.

Yeah.  I remember a different response from Apple during the San Bernardino shooting...
That was about unlocking a user-secured device, right? This is a little different as it isn't about unlocking the device itself, but of the companies giving the FBI data from their web-based services and all of the things on the devices that those services have user-given permissions to access (like location). IOW, it sounds like all of those user agreements that people don't read and the menus of cross-app access that people quickly click by are what are going to be used to bite some of these people in their asses.

Oh good, now the FBI decides to do their job after telling the DC Police to stand down because there was no chance of any riot happening.

I would certainly trust them.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 24, 2021, 05:57:38 PM
Might be hard to even prove trespass, since the police literally invited them in at a couple places.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 24, 2021, 06:17:45 PM
Might be hard to even prove trespass, since the police literally invited them in at a couple places.
Did they have the lawful authority to do so? I don't believe so.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 24, 2021, 06:24:58 PM
Read an article on how the tech companies are being extremely helpful in providing data to prosecute anyone illegally in the Capital on 1/6/21. Apparently they're getting the warrants through on trespassing based on location data and then digging through other data to build bigger cases. The article says it's not chilling to free speech because it is only going after those already committing a crime (trespass), but it sounds biased as fuck. I'd link but I'm on a phone and I figure that anyone that's interested can find it themselves.

Yeah.  I remember a different response from Apple during the San Bernardino shooting...
That was about unlocking a user-secured device, right? This is a little different as it isn't about unlocking the device itself, but of the companies giving the FBI data from their web-based services and all of the things on the devices that those services have user-given permissions to access (like location). IOW, it sounds like all of those user agreements that people don't read and the menus of cross-app access that people quickly click by are what are going to be used to bite some of these people in their asses.

Oh good, now the FBI decides to do their job after telling the DC Police to stand down because there was no chance of any riot happening.

I would certainly trust them.
I'm interested to see how the tech companies play to this tune when another government, like China, decides to drop a hard lockdown/curfew on, say, Hong Kong and then demands the data on anyone out after the curfew based on their devices' locations.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 24, 2021, 06:38:58 PM
Read an article on how the tech companies are being extremely helpful in providing data to prosecute anyone illegally in the Capital on 1/6/21. Apparently they're getting the warrants through on trespassing based on location data and then digging through other data to build bigger cases. The article says it's not chilling to free speech because it is only going after those already committing a crime (trespass), but it sounds biased as fuck. I'd link but I'm on a phone and I figure that anyone that's interested can find it themselves.

Yeah.  I remember a different response from Apple during the San Bernardino shooting...
That was about unlocking a user-secured device, right? This is a little different as it isn't about unlocking the device itself, but of the companies giving the FBI data from their web-based services and all of the things on the devices that those services have user-given permissions to access (like location). IOW, it sounds like all of those user agreements that people don't read and the menus of cross-app access that people quickly click by are what are going to be used to bite some of these people in their asses.


That is true, which is why I'm not on Facebook, et al.  However Apple refused a legitimate court warrant after a crime in which a number of people were murdered and instead forced them to procure an actual court order to crack the device.  Then turned around a did it a second time in another incident.  This was supported by the other social media and the defense was the dead assailant's "right to privacy".  I have no problem with the providing of legitimate info through a legitimate warrant (or if the terms of service allow for it.)   I don't like the obvious double-standard on the defense portion of the argument by social media.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 24, 2021, 06:48:13 PM
Might be hard to even prove trespass, since the police literally invited them in at a couple places.
Did they have the lawful authority to do so? I don't believe so.

It might make a difference in what specific charges may be leveled, but we will have to wait and see on that.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 24, 2021, 06:48:33 PM
Might be hard to even prove trespass, since the police literally invited them in at a couple places.
Did they have the lawful authority to do so? I don't believe so.
Does it matter? I forget the name, but there's a legal concept where a company can be bound by the statements of someone who appears to speak for the company, even if they weren't delegated the authority. I wouldn't put it past the government to exempt themselves, but cops aren't just in apparent positions of authority, they're in actual positions of authority. Plus, on a common sense level, if the cops wave you in that's a strong presumption it's fine.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 24, 2021, 06:52:04 PM
I'm interested to see how the tech companies play to this tune when another government, like China, decides to drop a hard lockdown/curfew on, say, Hong Kong and then demands the data on anyone out after the curfew based on their devices' locations.

You think that China has to ask for data?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on January 24, 2021, 07:00:09 PM
Might be hard to find 12/12 people willing to jail someone who was invited somewhere by a policeman exceeding their authority (for those who can credibly assert such an invitation)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 24, 2021, 09:55:21 PM
Might be hard to find 12/12 people willing to jail someone who was invited somewhere by a policeman exceeding their authority (for those who can credibly assert such an invitation)

In all fairness, that is true...as long as the defense lawyers do their damn research on the jury pool.
*cough* Roger Stone *cough*
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 25, 2021, 06:47:33 AM
Might be hard to find 12/12 people willing to jail someone who was invited somewhere by a policeman exceeding their authority (for those who can credibly assert such an invitation)

In all fairness, that is true...as long as the defense lawyers do their damn research on the jury pool.
*cough* Roger Stone *cough*
Maybe the tech companies will grant data access for the purposes of assisting in jury selection too... ;)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 25, 2021, 08:23:19 AM
And while retards continue to mindlessly chant 'orange man bad!', the Bidenharris administration continues to shit on people.

'Fuck our energy independence.'
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidblackmon/2021/01/24/new-mexico-officials-taken-aback-by-biden-assault-on-oil-and-gas/?sh=9b318403db79
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/biden-administration-suspends-new-oil-gas-drilling-permits-on-federal-land-01611276375

'Fuck affordable medications.'
https://news.bloomberglaw.com/pharma-and-life-sciences/bidens-hhs-freezes-trump-insulin-epinephrine-rule-until-march

'Fuck your access to banking services because you have wrongthink.'
https://www.americanbanker.com/news/occs-fair-access-rule-could-be-short-lived-under-biden

(I find the last one hilarious since it sure didn't bother Congress to demand banks loan money to people who had no chance of paying it off a while back. The result was the subprime mortgage mess.)

So yeah. You voted for Bidenharris, you voted for this stuff. Suck it down.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 25, 2021, 01:56:23 PM
So yeah. You voted for Bidenharris, you voted for this stuff. Suck it down.

But Ghostrider, at least he has stopped the Chinese Wuhan Virus epidemic, so it was worth it right?

If only we had known that the sceret was to tell people to wear masks.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 25, 2021, 03:41:03 PM
Might be hard to find 12/12 people willing to jail someone who was invited somewhere by a policeman exceeding their authority (for those who can credibly assert such an invitation)

In all fairness, that is true...as long as the defense lawyers do their damn research on the jury pool.
*cough* Roger Stone *cough*
Maybe the tech companies will grant data access for the purposes of assisting in jury selection too... ;)
I hear China's really good at it, with their social credit scores. We should emulate them. Then make it so only those with high social credit scores will be able to sit on a jury. Or vote. It just makes sense, because those are privileges, not rights. Which can be taken away if you exercise your other rights, like free speech. Because free speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences. And those who use their freedom to speak out against what those in power say is right need to face consequences.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 25, 2021, 11:07:17 PM
Sham impeachment to move forward with Democrat senator Patrick Leahy to preside.

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/25/960389715/sen-patrick-leahy-to-preside-over-trumps-senate-impeachment-trial

Chief Justice John Roberts has declined to preside, since it's no longer an impeachment of a current president.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: DocJones on January 25, 2021, 11:50:18 PM
Read an article on how the tech companies are being extremely helpful in providing data to prosecute anyone illegally in the Capital on 1/6/21. Apparently they're getting the warrants through on trespassing based on location data and then digging through other data to build bigger cases. The article says it's not chilling to free speech because it is only going after those already committing a crime (trespass), but it sounds biased as fuck. I'd link but I'm on a phone and I figure that anyone that's interested can find it themselves.
Ironic that so far all the communications and organization for this protest did occur on Facebook, Twitter and other Big Tech platforms, yet Amazon, Google and Apple canceled Parler.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: DocJones on January 25, 2021, 11:58:13 PM
All Sydney has to do is demonstrate the machines don't work as advertised, or that they can be easily manipulated or modified, by any group intent on cheating during the election.

I'll wager right now, this case will be quietly settled with a gag order because if the truth gets these machines were literally designed for cheating, then the entire election process is borked. Just like the banks are too big to fail, the election is too big to throw. I'm watching this case with interest.
Dominion has a solid case and doesn't fear discovery at all.  Every release of their machines and software have been audited by third parties and States for years.
I predict they won't settle because the survival of the company is on the line because of the allegations.
I also predict Powell will very likely be disbarred after she loses this case.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 26, 2021, 08:03:56 AM
Sham impeachment to move forward with Democrat senator Patrick Leahy to preside.

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/25/960389715/sen-patrick-leahy-to-preside-over-trumps-senate-impeachment-trial

Chief Justice John Roberts has declined to preside, since it's no longer an impeachment of a current president.


While I've bitched about Roberts punting on important issues for a while, I can't totally fault his reasoning on this one.

You want to charge Trump with something, charge him in a court of law... if you can.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 26, 2021, 02:25:46 PM
All Sydney has to do is demonstrate the machines don't work as advertised, or that they can be easily manipulated or modified, by any group intent on cheating during the election.

I'll wager right now, this case will be quietly settled with a gag order because if the truth gets these machines were literally designed for cheating, then the entire election process is borked. Just like the banks are too big to fail, the election is too big to throw. I'm watching this case with interest.
Dominion has a solid case and doesn't fear discovery at all.  Every release of their machines and software have been audited by third parties and States for years.
I predict they won't settle because the survival of the company is on the line because of the allegations.
I also predict Powell will very likely be disbarred after she loses this case.

I tend more to agree with DocJones - this is extremely serious for Dominion's business, so I don't think they'll settle without a full public retraction.

Of course, if there is a public retraction, then plenty of people will just say that the court case was rigged - just like everything else.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: DocJones on January 26, 2021, 02:37:35 PM
Of course, if there is a public retraction, then plenty of people will just say that the court case was rigged - just like everything else.
It's already happening with news outlets and persons making retractions. 
They've become part of "the conspiracy", which apparently includes everyone but President Trump. 
I have become ashamed by some of my fellow conservatives who have dived deep into these conspiracies.
I voted for the policies, not the man.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 26, 2021, 02:48:55 PM
Dominions is already screwed.  No one is going to trust them with another election even if they win their case.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Melan on January 26, 2021, 04:47:12 PM
Not to put too fine a point on it, but voting machines will always be considered shady, and rightfully so. People don't understand machines, don't know what's going on inside machines, and will never fully trust machines in their voting. The only time-tested method of vote counting is the decentralised method of paper ballots, and local election committees staffed by the main rival parties spending an unpleasant day looking over each others' desks.

Of course, people didn't trust the voting machines in 2020 either. Then they were told en masse to shut up or face the consequences. I am sure this has made their concerns vanish overnight.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 26, 2021, 05:27:27 PM
It's no longer about equality, it's about equity.



In Biden's America, the color of your skin is more important than the content of your character. And at this point, I don't think they'd disagree.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 26, 2021, 06:23:24 PM
Not to put too fine a point on it, but voting machines will always be considered shady, and rightfully so. People don't understand machines, don't know what's going on inside machines, and will never fully trust machines in their voting. The only time-tested method of vote counting is the decentralised method of paper ballots, and local election committees staffed by the main rival parties spending an unpleasant day looking over each others' desks.

Of course, people didn't trust the voting machines in 2020 either. Then they were told en masse to shut up or face the consequences. I am sure this has made their concerns vanish overnight.

Voting machines have been in widespread use for over 120 years, and it's not like voting in the 1800s was free from fraud. Tammany Hall in New York was notorious for rigging elections, as was the Post-Reconstruction South. Most states have had almost entirely voting machines for the better part of a century, and vastly more experience with them than pure hand counts.

And in the 2020 general election, there were just as many accusations of fraud against *ballot workers* as there were against *voting machines* -- including many accusations of fraudulent ballots as well as fraudulent counting. There was a hand tally of paper ballots in Georgia, for example, but Trump supporters ignored the result of that - claiming it to be just as fraudulent as the machine count.

Based on this, I think going to hand count only would introduce a ton of problems, and do nothing to change opinion about fraud. For the record, I am opposed to pure electronic voting machines (DRE) or especially to Internet voting, but I think optical scan systems are a good choice.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 26, 2021, 06:27:11 PM
For the record, I am opposed to pure electronic voting machines (DRE) or especially to Internet voting, but I think optical scan systems are a good choice.
I'm a fan of moving to only internet voting. Restrict it to one vote per IP address, and everything should be fine. (http://content.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1894028,00.html)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 26, 2021, 06:32:20 PM
For the record, I am opposed to pure electronic voting machines (DRE) or especially to Internet voting, but I think optical scan systems are a good choice.
I'm a fan of moving to only internet voting. Restrict it to one vote per IP address, and everything should be fine. (http://content.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1894028,00.html)

How would that work for those of us that have more then one voter per IP address?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 26, 2021, 06:33:55 PM
For the record, I am opposed to pure electronic voting machines (DRE) or especially to Internet voting, but I think optical scan systems are a good choice.
I'm a fan of moving to only internet voting. Restrict it to one vote per IP address, and everything should be fine. (http://content.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1894028,00.html)

How would that work for those of us that have more then one voter per IP address?
Be the first to connect to the network in the Panera parking lot on election day.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 26, 2021, 06:43:35 PM
For the record, I am opposed to pure electronic voting machines (DRE) or especially to Internet voting, but I think optical scan systems are a good choice.
I'm a fan of moving to only internet voting. Restrict it to one vote per IP address, and everything should be fine. (http://content.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1894028,00.html)

How would that work for those of us that have more then one voter per IP address?
Be the first to connect to the network in the Panera parking lot on election day.

One man one vote, I like it.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 26, 2021, 06:51:41 PM
For the record, I am opposed to pure electronic voting machines (DRE) or especially to Internet voting, but I think optical scan systems are a good choice.
I'm a fan of moving to only internet voting. Restrict it to one vote per IP address, and everything should be fine. (http://content.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1894028,00.html)

You joke - but parts of the U.S. have gone ahead with Internet-based voting.

Quote
West Virginia and counties in Utah, Oregon and Colorado are at different stages in implementing a new Internet voting app to allow overseas and military voters to cast votes on their phones.

The goal is to make things easier for some of the voters who are farthest away.

"These are the people who are putting their lives on the line on a daily basis, and yet their votes haven't been counted up to this point," said Mac Warner, West Virginia's secretary of state, in pointing to a study that showed a dismal rate of accepted ballots among active-duty military voters in 2016.

Source: https://www.npr.org/2019/11/07/776403310/in-2020-some-americans-will-vote-on-their-phones-is-that-the-future

cf. also https://www.eballot.com/blog/these-states-allow-online-voting-for-their-citizens-is-your-state-one-of-them
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 26, 2021, 07:27:17 PM
You joke - but parts of the U.S. have gone ahead with Internet-based voting.
Doesn't sound secure. They should go with a clear, transparent, open, and verifiable system. Maybe something based on the blockchain. Which would have added benefit of keeping a public record of everyone everyone has ever voted for. That would make it much easier to set up Truth and Reconciliation Commissions in the future, employers could ensure none of their employees ever voted for the wrong person, and other companies could enforce it by refusing to do business with any companies that hire anyone with a deplorable voting history.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on January 26, 2021, 08:13:11 PM
Trump opens the "Office of the Former President".

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-opens-office-of-the-former-president-social-media-ban-2021-1

Is he deliberately trolling Biden and that silly "Office of the President-Elect"?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: consolcwby on January 26, 2021, 08:43:07 PM
Trump opens the "Office of the Former President".

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-opens-office-of-the-former-president-social-media-ban-2021-1

Is he deliberately trolling Biden and that silly "Office of the President-Elect"?
Trump was SHADOWBANNED so much that he became... (wait for it)



The SHADOW-PRESIDENT!
So, he's technically black now. So don't be racist and call him ORANGE!  He's now OJ TRUMP!  ;D
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 26, 2021, 09:22:55 PM
Trump opens the "Office of the Former President".

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-opens-office-of-the-former-president-social-media-ban-2021-1

Is he deliberately trolling Biden and that silly "Office of the President-Elect"?

The President-elect thing dates from Obama in 2008.  I think Trump trolled them with it in 2016 if I remember right.  So I think he's just trolling in general.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 26, 2021, 09:30:36 PM
The issue for Dominion is that research showed that their machines could be tampered with easily.  There was discussion about this before the election but it was mostly ignored or pushed under the rug.  Then the 'fraud' claims ate up all the news cycles afterwards, but there wasn't as much emphasis on how insecure they actually were.

I think that will be the important factor during the lawsuits, not the 'allegations of fraud.'
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Trinculoisdead on January 26, 2021, 09:41:56 PM
Really appreciate the perspectives on all this offered in this interview vis-a-vis the political and philosophical divide in the US: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_RrYz85E1A
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Tubesock Army on January 28, 2021, 09:23:59 AM
The issue for Dominion is that research showed that their machines could be tampered with easily.  There was discussion about this before the election but it was mostly ignored or pushed under the rug.  Then the 'fraud' claims ate up all the news cycles afterwards, but there wasn't as much emphasis on how insecure they actually were.

I think that will be the important factor during the lawsuits, not the 'allegations of fraud.'

Nope. Powell, get. al., were alleging specific acts of fraud and wrongdoing. Lacking any ability to prove this, they are likely to be ruined and publicly dragged. If Ii say repeatedly and publicly that someone robbed a bank, and make very specific allegations about bank robbery, I don't get to skate because they may have had had the capability to rob a bank. Dominion will make this as public and as painful as possible.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 28, 2021, 04:24:55 PM
The issue for Dominion is that research showed that their machines could be tampered with easily.  There was discussion about this before the election but it was mostly ignored or pushed under the rug.  Then the 'fraud' claims ate up all the news cycles afterwards, but there wasn't as much emphasis on how insecure they actually were.

I think that will be the important factor during the lawsuits, not the 'allegations of fraud.'

Nope. Powell, get. al., were alleging specific acts of fraud and wrongdoing. Lacking any ability to prove this, they are likely to be ruined and publicly dragged. If Ii say repeatedly and publicly that someone robbed a bank, and make very specific allegations about bank robbery, I don't get to skate because they may have had had the capability to rob a bank. Dominion will make this as public and as painful as possible.

If Dominion had it that easy, they would be going for legitimate settlement and not the 'intimidation' amount.  The problem they have is that there are records of the 'fraud' types that they have been accused of.  The real question is what comes up in discovery...and the security issues will be a major part of that.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: DocJones on January 28, 2021, 10:53:45 PM
If Dominion had it that easy, they would be going for legitimate settlement and not the 'intimidation' amount.  The problem they have is that there are records of the 'fraud' types that they have been accused of.  The real question is what comes up in discovery...and the security issues will be a major part of that.
Well here's a link to the actual suit and the claims:
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.225699/gov.uscourts.dcd.225699.1.0_2.pdf (https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.225699/gov.uscourts.dcd.225699.1.0_2.pdf)

The contention isn't that voting machines might be susceptible to hacking by someone, it's that Powell claimed that Dominion was the perpetrator of fraud among other nutty claims relating to Chavez and the Georgia SoS.




Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Tubesock Army on January 28, 2021, 11:05:09 PM
The issue for Dominion is that research showed that their machines could be tampered with easily.  There was discussion about this before the election but it was mostly ignored or pushed under the rug.  Then the 'fraud' claims ate up all the news cycles afterwards, but there wasn't as much emphasis on how insecure they actually were.

I think that will be the important factor during the lawsuits, not the 'allegations of fraud.'

Nope. Powell, get. al., were alleging specific acts of fraud and wrongdoing. Lacking any ability to prove this, they are likely to be ruined and publicly dragged. If Ii say repeatedly and publicly that someone robbed a bank, and make very specific allegations about bank robbery, I don't get to skate because they may have had had the capability to rob a bank. Dominion will make this as public and as painful as possible.

If Dominion had it that easy, they would be going for legitimate settlement and not the 'intimidation' amount.  The problem they have is that there are records of the 'fraud' types that they have been accused of.  The real question is what comes up in discovery...and the security issues will be a major part of that.

Seeking much higher damages than you are likely to get is a tried and true legal strategy, and not necessarily an attempt at "intimidation". Besides, all Powell and Fruity Giuliani have to do is show the "ironclad" evidence, and I'm sure they'll be completely vindicated lmao.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 28, 2021, 11:33:29 PM
Well here's a link to the actual suit and the claims:
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.225699/gov.uscourts.dcd.225699.1.0_2.pdf (https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.225699/gov.uscourts.dcd.225699.1.0_2.pdf)

The contention isn't that voting machines might be susceptible to hacking by someone, it's that Powell claimed that Dominion was the perpetrator of fraud among other nutty claims relating to Chavez and the Georgia SoS.


Seeking much higher damages than you are likely to get is a tried and true legal strategy, and not necessarily an attempt at "intimidation". Besides, all Powell and Fruity Giuliani have to do is show the "ironclad" evidence, and I'm sure they'll be completely vindicated lmao.

Yes...and all they have to do is show that the Dominion software altered/miscounted votes.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on January 29, 2021, 01:18:54 AM
The issue for Dominion is that research showed that their machines could be tampered with easily.  There was discussion about this before the election but it was mostly ignored or pushed under the rug.  Then the 'fraud' claims ate up all the news cycles afterwards, but there wasn't as much emphasis on how insecure they actually were.

I think that will be the important factor during the lawsuits, not the 'allegations of fraud.'

Nope. Powell, get. al., were alleging specific acts of fraud and wrongdoing. Lacking any ability to prove this, they are likely to be ruined and publicly dragged. If Ii say repeatedly and publicly that someone robbed a bank, and make very specific allegations about bank robbery, I don't get to skate because they may have had had the capability to rob a bank. Dominion will make this as public and as painful as possible.

If Dominion had it that easy, they would be going for legitimate settlement and not the 'intimidation' amount.  The problem they have is that there are records of the 'fraud' types that they have been accused of.  The real question is what comes up in discovery...and the security issues will be a major part of that.

Seeking much higher damages than you are likely to get is a tried and true legal strategy, and not necessarily an attempt at "intimidation". Besides, all Powell and Fruity Giuliani have to do is show the "ironclad" evidence, and I'm sure they'll be completely vindicated lmao.

In the Weiss and Hickman sue WOTC thread a bunch of people here thought because they asked for millions and the case settled that meant they must have gotten millions or at least hundreds of thousands.

What it almost certainly meant was they just got the right to publish the books through Del Rey, and no actual money exchanged hands aside from whatever their signing bonus had been all along. But, people here were backing Weiss and Hickman and still just assume it means "HUGE win!"

And then we get to this thread and people are bitching about the lawsuit asking for tons of money unrealistically. Which is exactly what Weiss and Hickman did. But you know, white hats, get different assumptions than black hats do when they do the same things.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 29, 2021, 01:21:14 AM
Well here's a link to the actual suit and the claims:
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.225699/gov.uscourts.dcd.225699.1.0_2.pdf (https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.225699/gov.uscourts.dcd.225699.1.0_2.pdf)

The contention isn't that voting machines might be susceptible to hacking by someone, it's that Powell claimed that Dominion was the perpetrator of fraud among other nutty claims relating to Chavez and the Georgia SoS.


Seeking much higher damages than you are likely to get is a tried and true legal strategy, and not necessarily an attempt at "intimidation". Besides, all Powell and Fruity Giuliani have to do is show the "ironclad" evidence, and I'm sure they'll be completely vindicated lmao.

Yes...and all they have to do is show that the Dominion software altered/miscounted votes.

Or show them the John Oliver episode that shows how easy they are to hack.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on January 29, 2021, 01:32:34 AM
The issue for Dominion is that research showed that their machines could be tampered with easily.  There was discussion about this before the election but it was mostly ignored or pushed under the rug.  Then the 'fraud' claims ate up all the news cycles afterwards, but there wasn't as much emphasis on how insecure they actually were.

I think that will be the important factor during the lawsuits, not the 'allegations of fraud.'

Nope. Powell, get. al., were alleging specific acts of fraud and wrongdoing. Lacking any ability to prove this, they are likely to be ruined and publicly dragged. If Ii say repeatedly and publicly that someone robbed a bank, and make very specific allegations about bank robbery, I don't get to skate because they may have had had the capability to rob a bank. Dominion will make this as public and as painful as possible.

If Dominion had it that easy, they would be going for legitimate settlement and not the 'intimidation' amount.  The problem they have is that there are records of the 'fraud' types that they have been accused of.  The real question is what comes up in discovery...and the security issues will be a major part of that.

Seeking much higher damages than you are likely to get is a tried and true legal strategy, and not necessarily an attempt at "intimidation". Besides, all Powell and Fruity Giuliani have to do is show the "ironclad" evidence, and I'm sure they'll be completely vindicated lmao.

In the Weiss and Hickman sue WOTC thread a bunch of people here thought because they asked for millions and the case settled that meant they must have gotten millions or at least hundreds of thousands.

What it almost certainly meant was they just got the right to publish the books through Del Rey, and no actual money exchanged hands aside from whatever their signing bonus had been all along. But, people here were backing Weiss and Hickman and still just assume it means "HUGE win!"

And then we get to this thread and people are bitching about the lawsuit asking for tons of money unrealistically. Which is exactly what Weiss and Hickman did. But you know, white hats, get different assumptions than black hats do when they do the same things.

Uhhh...I didn't say anything about the Dragonlance suit.  Since I never really liked DL, I didn't care.  I did make a reference to Anne Westfall in the thread, if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on January 29, 2021, 01:47:57 AM
Well here's a link to the actual suit and the claims:
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.225699/gov.uscourts.dcd.225699.1.0_2.pdf (https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.225699/gov.uscourts.dcd.225699.1.0_2.pdf)

The contention isn't that voting machines might be susceptible to hacking by someone, it's that Powell claimed that Dominion was the perpetrator of fraud among other nutty claims relating to Chavez and the Georgia SoS.


Seeking much higher damages than you are likely to get is a tried and true legal strategy, and not necessarily an attempt at "intimidation". Besides, all Powell and Fruity Giuliani have to do is show the "ironclad" evidence, and I'm sure they'll be completely vindicated lmao.

Yes...and all they have to do is show that the Dominion software altered/miscounted votes.

Or show them the John Oliver episode that shows how easy they are to hack.

LOL John Oliver is considered "proof" in your mind?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 29, 2021, 02:19:46 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ex-fbi-lawyer-kevin-clinesmith-sentenced-to-1-year-probation-for-altering-russia-probe-email/ar-BB1ddv5G

Wow. Just wow. I don't even know what to say. Evidently, falsifying official documents (for a secret court, no less) is just a slap on the wrist.

If our so-called betters were any more blatant, they'd be telling us to suck deez nuts.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Tubesock Army on January 29, 2021, 03:35:49 PM
Well here's a link to the actual suit and the claims:
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.225699/gov.uscourts.dcd.225699.1.0_2.pdf (https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.225699/gov.uscourts.dcd.225699.1.0_2.pdf)

The contention isn't that voting machines might be susceptible to hacking by someone, it's that Powell claimed that Dominion was the perpetrator of fraud among other nutty claims relating to Chavez and the Georgia SoS.


Seeking much higher damages than you are likely to get is a tried and true legal strategy, and not necessarily an attempt at "intimidation". Besides, all Powell and Fruity Giuliani have to do is show the "ironclad" evidence, and I'm sure they'll be completely vindicated lmao.

Yes...and all they have to do is show that the Dominion software altered/miscounted votes.

It's likely they'll need to do more than that, as they made far more serious and repeated allegations of specific wrongdoing. You don't get out of slander/libel simply because you can demonstrate that what you claimed very specifically happened is technically possible, in a much broader sense.

"Your honor, I accused this man of bank robbery. I can demonstrate that he has a car and a gun, and lives within two miles of a bank. Case closed."


"I will demonstrate to the court that this man I accused on television of child molestation has a penis and lives four blocks from a school. I win!"

Nah.

If the only claims Powell, Wood, Fruity G., et. al., had made was that cheating was possible, it's highly likely that there wouldn't even be a lawsuit. But when they start claiming that Hugo Chavez's ghost and George Soros took control of Dominion data/servers in Germany and altered hundreds of thousands of votes, you better believe that these specific claims are what the court - and especially Dominion's lawyers - will be focused on.

In other news, the Georgia State Bar is demanding that Lin Wood take a mental fitness test in order to retain his law license.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on January 29, 2021, 03:38:19 PM
Lefty left-brained people think there’s a good outcome for them in this lawsuit
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 29, 2021, 04:22:34 PM
If Dominion had it that easy, they would be going for legitimate settlement and not the 'intimidation' amount.  The problem they have is that there are records of the 'fraud' types that they have been accused of.  The real question is what comes up in discovery...and the security issues will be a major part of that.
Seeking much higher damages than you are likely to get is a tried and true legal strategy, and not necessarily an attempt at "intimidation". Besides, all Powell and Fruity Giuliani have to do is show the "ironclad" evidence, and I'm sure they'll be completely vindicated lmao.
Yes...and all they have to do is show that the Dominion software altered/miscounted votes.

Moonsweeper - can you specify what the evidence is that Dominion software altered or miscounted votes? The claim that I'm familiar with is a report on 37 out of 14,000 votes in Ware County, Georgia -- but that's misrepresented. There was no forensic analysis of the machines - there was just a difference between a hand count and the machine-based count, which was almost certainly human error rather than software.

https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-9773239691

There have been claims about vulnerabilities - but often the claims are based on an unreasonable standard that the machines be completely hack-proof. If one assumes that the election officials running the machine are intent on fraud, then hacking the machine is unnecessary - they could just change the paper ballots instead. The real standard is - are elections using Dominion servers more vulnerable than using ES&S machines, hand count, or other methods?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 29, 2021, 04:56:26 PM
If Dominion had it that easy, they would be going for legitimate settlement and not the 'intimidation' amount.  The problem they have is that there are records of the 'fraud' types that they have been accused of.  The real question is what comes up in discovery...and the security issues will be a major part of that.
Seeking much higher damages than you are likely to get is a tried and true legal strategy, and not necessarily an attempt at "intimidation". Besides, all Powell and Fruity Giuliani have to do is show the "ironclad" evidence, and I'm sure they'll be completely vindicated lmao.
Yes...and all they have to do is show that the Dominion software altered/miscounted votes.

Moonsweeper - can you specify what the evidence is that Dominion software altered or miscounted votes? The claim that I'm familiar with is a report on 37 out of 14,000 votes in Ware County, Georgia -- but that's misrepresented. There was no forensic analysis of the machines - there was just a difference between a hand count and the machine-based count, which was almost certainly human error rather than software.

https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-9773239691

There have been claims about vulnerabilities - but often the claims are based on an unreasonable standard that the machines be completely hack-proof. If one assumes that the election officials running the machine are intent on fraud, then hacking the machine is unnecessary - they could just change the paper ballots instead. The real standard is - are elections using Dominion servers more vulnerable than using ES&S machines, hand count, or other methods?

I thought that the court already ruled that it was not necessary to audit the vote count?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: KingCheops on January 29, 2021, 05:07:25 PM
Lefty left-brained people think there’s a good outcome for them in this lawsuit

Useful idiots don't usually realize their error until they've been dragged out the to Killing Fields.

It's a holiday in Cambodia!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 29, 2021, 05:19:37 PM
Lefty left-brained people think there’s a good outcome for them in this lawsuit

Useful idiots don't usually realize their error until they've been dragged out the to Killing Fields.

It's a holiday in Cambodia!
Let's get modern and say that useful idiots don't realize their error until they're illegally storming the Capital.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on January 29, 2021, 05:50:29 PM
another legal situation some mistake as having a useful and beneficial conclusion in the world of 2021
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on January 29, 2021, 05:58:41 PM
Quote from: jhkim
Moonsweeper - can you specify what the evidence is that Dominion software altered or miscounted votes? The claim that I'm familiar with is a report on 37 out of 14,000 votes in Ware County, Georgia -- but that's misrepresented. There was no forensic analysis of the machines - there was just a difference between a hand count and the machine-based count, which was almost certainly human error rather than software.

https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-9773239691

There have been claims about vulnerabilities - but often the claims are based on an unreasonable standard that the machines be completely hack-proof. If one assumes that the election officials running the machine are intent on fraud, then hacking the machine is unnecessary - they could just change the paper ballots instead. The real standard is - are elections using Dominion servers more vulnerable than using ES&S machines, hand count, or other methods?

I thought that the court already ruled that it was not necessary to audit the vote count?

In Georgia? It's required by law that in a close vote - like for President in 2020 - that there be two complete recounts, including some hand recounts to confirm results. (They also revamped their voting system to require paper ballots.) Those were completed in early December.

It's because of a hand recount that the Ware County result was flagged for the 37 out of roughly 14,000 vote difference between the original count and the hand recount. But that difference could easily have come from a human error in either machine use or in the hand recount. There's no inherent reason to think that it came from software. In some places, it was falsely reported that this was a specific test of the voting machine software where they put in exactly equal numbers of votes for Biden and Trump. There were not equal votes - Trump won the county by a large margin - and it wasn't a specific test of the software.

Specific tests were done a long time ago when the machines were vetted for use in Georgia, but they weren't done in Ware County in 2020.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on January 29, 2021, 06:39:36 PM
Recounts as practiced involve the same people as did the original count.  They are useful to double-check a process followed by a group of unbiased people attempting to determine a count.

But they’re not designed to address the possibility of intentional fraud by a group of counters.

Yes, I understand you dismiss that possibility as impractical to achieve.  But to say “recounts” in response to someone suspicious of intentional fraud is impractical to resolve that suspicion
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on January 29, 2021, 06:59:08 PM
another legal situation some mistake as having a useful and beneficial conclusion in the world of 2021
I don't think it had a useful or beneficial conclusion, but it did show just how stupid some people really are.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on January 29, 2021, 08:38:26 PM
Let's get modern and say that useful idiots don't realize their error until they're illegally storming the Capital.

Who does not get the necessary permits to legally storm the capitol now a days?

I bet they never even had the correct Health and Safety staff.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on January 29, 2021, 08:44:22 PM
Ideas can be stupid; strategies can be stupid; people not nearly so much.

The problem with categorizing other people as stupid is that the hearers learn much more about the speaker than the object
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: DocJones on January 31, 2021, 06:59:50 PM
Who does not get the necessary permits to legally storm the capitol now a days?
I had thought the last insurrection was when  the Senate was stormed by a thousand outraged womyns during the Kavanaugh hearings.
And wasn't there an attempted insurrection on August 27th 2020 involving the Whitehouse.


Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 01, 2021, 07:59:10 AM
Who does not get the necessary permits to legally storm the capitol now a days?
I had thought the last insurrection was when  the Senate was stormed by a thousand outraged womyns during the Kavanaugh hearings.
And wasn't there an attempted insurrection on August 27th 2020 involving the Whitehouse.
Ah, but that's different, DocJones. That was targeting an evil rapist enabled by other evil rapists and was therefore a-ok!

In other words, 'It's fine when we do it'.

I find the perpetual pearl clutching over the 1/6 riot/protest/hubbaloo rather disingenuous to put it mildly. Months, hell, years of unrest punctuated with fires, actual riots, 'autonomous zones', and police being handcuffed figuratively, and now they get their knickers in a twist.

Considering the poor governance our so-called federal masters have shown, perhaps they should be afraid.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: shuddemell on February 01, 2021, 08:48:16 AM
Let us not forget the left wing motivated bombing of the US Capitol in 1983... historical memory is extremely short these days. Here's a summary of attacks on the capitol...

https://www.history.com/news/us-capitol-building-violence-fires
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on February 01, 2021, 09:55:16 AM
Lefty left-brained people think there’s a good outcome for them in this lawsuit

Useful idiots don't usually realize their error until they've been dragged out the to Killing Fields.

It's a holiday in Cambodia!
Let's get modern and say that useful idiots don't realize their error until they're illegally storming the Capital.

I think you meant mostly peaceful protesting in the capital. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on February 01, 2021, 09:58:16 AM
Let us not forget the left wing motivated bombing of the US Capitol in 1983... historical memory is extremely short these days. Here's a summary of attacks on the capitol...

https://www.history.com/news/us-capitol-building-violence-fires

  Isnt that the attack where the people involved got pardoned?  If memory serves isnt one of the people involved in that one of the leaders of BLM now?  I want to say Bill Ayers was another one.  Time make terrorists into revolutionaries I guess.  I just laugh my ass off at people calling tards walking around the capital and shitting on a desk an insurrection.  I hope all the people tossing that word around get a chance to see an actual insurrection. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: shuddemell on February 01, 2021, 10:01:04 AM
"Defendants include Elizabeth Duke, who is being sought as a fugitive, Laura Whitehorn, Linda Evans, Marilyn Buck, Susan Rosenberg, Timothy Blunk and Alan Berkman, all of whom are incarcerated for other crimes, according to a Justice Department spokesman."

Then we should also mention the 1971 bombing of the capitol by the Weather Underground, also a splinter of the left wing Students for a Democratic Society... Leftist attacks on the government go far back and are far more extensive than any right wing attacks here in the US at the very least.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on February 01, 2021, 10:06:37 AM
"Defendants include Elizabeth Duke, who is being sought as a fugitive, Laura Whitehorn, Linda Evans, Marilyn Buck, Susan Rosenberg, Timothy Blunk and Alan Berkman, all of whom are incarcerated for other crimes, according to a Justice Department spokesman."

Then we should also mention the 1971 bombing of the capitol by the Weather Underground, also a splinter of the left wing Students for a Democratic Society... Leftist attacks on the government go far back and are far more extensive than any right wing attacks here in the US at the very least.
  Ah I always get the bombings mixed up.  The underground were connected to all sorts of stuff, but in the end... when a couple of murdering bank robbers can produce a radical son that is raised by their cohorts and becomes the DA of San Fran, I guess they win even from prison.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on February 01, 2021, 10:37:41 AM
stuff

stuff

...and here I thought the reason they want to erase history is because it was 'racist'...  ;)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on February 01, 2021, 10:52:32 AM
stuff

stuff

...and here I thought the reason they want to erase history is because it was 'racist'...  ;)

  Well maybe?  I think they need to pay more attention to history.  Otherwise their next 'insurrection' might have some tea party tones and get people to actually do some of the things they pretend could have happened during the mostly peaceful protest in the capital.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 01, 2021, 12:18:14 PM
Don't forget the FALN's attempted assassination of Harry Truman.

Incidentially, Nevertrumpers, here (https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/01/31/never-trump-lincoln-project-founder-john-weaver-accused-sending-provocative-messages-young-men/) is your standard-bearer. Revel in his degeneracy (and I'm not using that word lightly, or ironically either).

The real nut-shot is that Karl fuckin' Rove was warning about this guy back in 2004 and nobody wanted to hear it. Granted, it was Karl Rove, but for fuck's sake...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: shuddemell on February 01, 2021, 01:32:44 PM
That's one miniscule benefit of the current situation, they seem to believe they can proceed with their totalitarian agenda without even trying to hide it anymore. I think if we knew the true scope of the corruption and infiltration we would be flabbergasted. Consider what Julian Assange said on that matter. "When all is exposed, 98% of Washington will fall."
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on February 01, 2021, 05:05:38 PM
Lefty left-brained people think there’s a good outcome for them in this lawsuit

Useful idiots don't usually realize their error until they've been dragged out the to Killing Fields.

It's a holiday in Cambodia!
Let's get modern and say that useful idiots don't realize their error until they're illegally storming the Capital.

I think you meant mostly peaceful protesting in the capital.
The ones in DC that stuck to mostly peaceful protesting and didn't illegally enter the Capital are not the ones I'm talking about, but the useful idiots were recruited from among them.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on February 02, 2021, 01:04:26 AM
Lefty left-brained people think there’s a good outcome for them in this lawsuit

Useful idiots don't usually realize their error until they've been dragged out the to Killing Fields.

It's a holiday in Cambodia!
Let's get modern and say that useful idiots don't realize their error until they're illegally storming the Capital.

I think you meant mostly peaceful protesting in the capital.
The ones in DC that stuck to mostly peaceful protesting and didn't illegally enter the Capital are not the ones I'm talking about, but the useful idiots were recruited from among them.

  Inside the capital was pretty much mostly peaceful people walking around between velvet ropes.  I suppose if I felt my holy church had been violated I would feel differently.  After half a year of watching shit burn or riding down main street and seeing broken storefronts all down the street belonging to small businesses, I am a bit jaded as the damage to the capital was minimal.  If a few old, decrepit shitbags got a pang of fear because they thought the torches and pitchforks were coming ah well.  Maybe they should have felt a bit differently about the definition of mostly peaceful this summer when main street was getting their stuff destroyed.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on February 02, 2021, 08:36:39 PM
Robert Barnes has done a good job of breaking down the real problems with the 2020 Election:

https://vivabarneslaw.locals.com/upost/403084/in-defense-of-trumps-election-contest (https://vivabarneslaw.locals.com/upost/403084/in-defense-of-trumps-election-contest)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on February 02, 2021, 08:45:19 PM
  Inside the capital was pretty much mostly peaceful people walking around between velvet ropes.
Good thing covid killed all those movie theaters. There were insurrections at every showing.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on February 03, 2021, 12:15:13 AM
Robert Barnes has done a good job of breaking down the real problems with the 2020 Election:

https://vivabarneslaw.locals.com/upost/403084/in-defense-of-trumps-election-contest (https://vivabarneslaw.locals.com/upost/403084/in-defense-of-trumps-election-contest)

Yeah, Barnes was talking about the things to watch out for (the circumstantial evidence for fraud) early in 2020.  That man is very smart...in addition to being a sharp dresser.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on February 03, 2021, 02:25:10 PM
The New York Times calls for Biden to establish a Ministry of Tru^H^H^H^H^H^H^H I mean a Reality Czar to provide the American people with an official version of the Truth.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/02/technology/biden-reality-crisis-misinformation.html

They even admit it's Orwellian: "It sounds a little dystopian, I’ll grant. But let’s hear them out."
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on February 03, 2021, 02:40:54 PM
Of course the reason the NYT is unironically suggesting we use 1984 as an instruction manual is because nobody believes them anymore.

https://www.axios.com/media-trust-crisis-2bf0ec1c-00c0-4901-9069-e26b21c283a9.html

Trust in the traditional media has been plummeting since 2019, and for the first time ever plunged under 50%, to 46%. (Based on Edelmann's annual survey.)

Quote from: Axios
56% of Americans agree with the statement that "Journalists and reporters are purposely trying to mislead people by saying things they know are false or gross exaggerations."

58% think that "most news organizations are more concerned with supporting an ideology or political position than with informing the public."

Trust in social media also hit a new low, of 26%.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on February 03, 2021, 03:03:49 PM
Trust in the traditional media has been plummeting since 2019, and for the first time ever plunged under 50%, to 46%. (Based on Edelmann's annual survey.)

Republicans that trust traditional media is down to 18%
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on February 03, 2021, 03:12:29 PM
The ratings for Trump Derangement Syndrome Network (CNN) plunged 44% in the first week after Trump left office.

https://variety.com/vip/cnn-primetime-ratings-fall-post-trump-1234897869/

Will they be able to find a new source of outrage to sustain them for the next 4 years?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on February 03, 2021, 03:14:39 PM

Republicans that trust traditional media is down to 18%

That’s a decent proxy for how much support the traditional GOP really has among its voting base.  They survive only by pretending (successfully, so far) to be the lesser evil
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on February 03, 2021, 03:50:46 PM
The ratings for Trump Derangement Syndrome Network (CNN) plunged 44% in the first week after Trump left office.

https://variety.com/vip/cnn-primetime-ratings-fall-post-trump-1234897869/

Will they be able to find a new source of outrage to sustain them for the next 4 years?
Nope.

That's why they are using the 'impeachment' and other Trump stuff to keep his name in the news.  Wasn't it Bill Maher who lamented the fact that Trump has basically gone silent?  Then he put forth the idea that Trump must be secretly planning something with his followers.    ::)

The Biden admin has nothing to put forward and Psaki is so mentally deficient it is like watching a train wreck...

I mean, hell, I could answer some of the questions she's avoided, off the top of my head, with answers that would support Biden...


Republicans that trust traditional media is down to 18%

That’s a decent proxy for how much support the traditional GOP really has among its voting base.  They survive only by pretending (successfully, so far) to be the lesser evil

Yeah, but that gravy train is done now, no matter what some neocons would have you believe.  I always registered based on which primary I wanted to vote in, so I get donation requests and surveys from both parties...

Usually, there is a steady stream, with increases near the elections...since the inauguration the RNC is completely off the chain about it, almost like a junkie without their fix.  The DNC wasn't near this bad right after 2016...It looks like Trump managed to wreck the party and without him to hate I don't think the DNC will hold it together either...

We might just get to credit Orange Man Bad with destroying both parties before it is all said and done... ;D
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on February 03, 2021, 04:30:20 PM
That alone would be Rushmore-worthy
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on February 03, 2021, 05:07:39 PM
The ratings for Trump Derangement Syndrome Network (CNN) plunged 44% in the first week after Trump left office.

https://variety.com/vip/cnn-primetime-ratings-fall-post-trump-1234897869/

Will they be able to find a new source of outrage to sustain them for the next 4 years?
Nope.

That's why they are using the 'impeachment' and other Trump stuff to keep his name in the news.  Wasn't it Bill Maher who lamented the fact that Trump has basically gone silent?  Then he put forth the idea that Trump must be secretly planning something with his followers.    ::)


I was hoping Trump would run silent for a while. Starve the media industrial complex of ginned up outrage and watch them flail.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Arkansan on February 04, 2021, 11:28:13 AM
The ratings for Trump Derangement Syndrome Network (CNN) plunged 44% in the first week after Trump left office.

https://variety.com/vip/cnn-primetime-ratings-fall-post-trump-1234897869/

Will they be able to find a new source of outrage to sustain them for the next 4 years?
Nope.

That's why they are using the 'impeachment' and other Trump stuff to keep his name in the news.  Wasn't it Bill Maher who lamented the fact that Trump has basically gone silent?  Then he put forth the idea that Trump must be secretly planning something with his followers.    ::)


I was hoping Trump would run silent for a while. Starve the media industrial complex of ginned up outrage and watch them flail.

I seem to recall an article in the past few days mentioning that CNN's ratings were tanking since the Biden administration began.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Trond on February 04, 2021, 01:09:22 PM
Turns out that AOC, for all her talk about nearly being murdered (and implicating Republicans like Ted Cruz), was not in the actual Capitol building during the riot. She was in an adjoining building of the complex, and the people that scared her were the police.  ::)

BTW, AOC reminds me a lot of people like Anita Sarkeesian and maybe even Zoe Quinn, the bitchiness disguised as "social justice", and hyperbole around their fear for their own safety etc.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on February 04, 2021, 02:51:21 PM
She's also a rape-enabler by her own admission, apparently...

She claims she was sexually assaulted years ago but never informed anybody and won't name her attacker.  Who knows how many women have been assaulted since then.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Trond on February 04, 2021, 03:18:29 PM
She's also a rape-enabler by her own admission, apparently...

She claims she was sexually assaulted years ago but never informed anybody and won't name her attacker.  Who knows how many women have been assaulted since then.

Most likely she's exaggerating that account as well.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on February 04, 2021, 03:44:24 PM
She's also a rape-enabler by her own admission, apparently...

She claims she was sexually assaulted years ago but never informed anybody and won't name her attacker.  Who knows how many women have been assaulted since then.

Most likely she's exaggerating that account as well.

Some ugly guy hitting on her when she worked as a bar tender?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on February 04, 2021, 05:59:38 PM
The ratings for Trump Derangement Syndrome Network (CNN) plunged 44% in the first week after Trump left office.

https://variety.com/vip/cnn-primetime-ratings-fall-post-trump-1234897869/

Will they be able to find a new source of outrage to sustain them for the next 4 years?
Nope.

That's why they are using the 'impeachment' and other Trump stuff to keep his name in the news.  Wasn't it Bill Maher who lamented the fact that Trump has basically gone silent?  Then he put forth the idea that Trump must be secretly planning something with his followers.    ::)


I was hoping Trump would run silent for a while. Starve the media industrial complex of ginned up outrage and watch them flail.

I seem to recall an article in the past few days mentioning that CNN's ratings were tanking since the Biden administration began.

Yes. It's in the quoted article even!  :D
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on February 04, 2021, 06:04:00 PM
Turns out that AOC, for all her talk about nearly being murdered (and implicating Republicans like Ted Cruz), was not in the actual Capitol building during the riot. She was in an adjoining building of the complex, and the people that scared her were the police.  ::)

BTW, AOC reminds me a lot of people like Anita Sarkeesian and maybe even Zoe Quinn, the bitchiness disguised as "social justice", and hyperbole around their fear for their own safety etc.

Yep. It's the reason I'm here. The crafting of threat narratives during the Atheism Plus days got me spiraling down several rabbit holes.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on February 04, 2021, 06:13:08 PM
AOC wasn't just in another building (that was never breached), she claimed she thought pro-Trump attackers were breaking into her office an hour before anyone even breached the Capitol (the other building).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=275&v=prlmJQAf1ns

Edit: Fixed link.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Spinachcat on February 04, 2021, 06:56:32 PM
The leftist scum are completely correct about insurrectionists coming to hang them...
...they just got the date wrong.

Who knew they could see into the future?

As for AOC lying yet again, how is this surprising coming from the idiot who was crying about an empty parking lot for her border fence photo?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Aglondir on February 05, 2021, 12:48:53 AM
You might find this interesting: a summary of all of the election fraud cases and their outcomes.

http://wiseenergy.org/Energy/Election/2020_Election_Cases.htm
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 05, 2021, 08:15:07 AM
Meanwhile, Bank of America decided to skip all that silly 'subpoena' and 'search warrant' business and just start turning information over to the FBI -- whether people were actually involved in the 1/6 peaceful protest* or not.

Fourth Amendment? Never heard of it. Doesn't apply when a big tech or big bank corporation decides to cuddle with the feds before fucking you in the ass.

* You don't like this? Fuck you. We just spent a year watching 'peaceful protests' that somehow always had riots, looting, and arson. Turnabout is fair play.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: shuddemell on February 05, 2021, 09:24:22 AM
"Defendants include Elizabeth Duke, who is being sought as a fugitive, Laura Whitehorn, Linda Evans, Marilyn Buck, Susan Rosenberg, Timothy Blunk and Alan Berkman, all of whom are incarcerated for other crimes, according to a Justice Department spokesman."

Then we should also mention the 1971 bombing of the capitol by the Weather Underground, also a splinter of the left wing Students for a Democratic Society... Leftist attacks on the government go far back and are far more extensive than any right wing attacks here in the US at the very least.
  Ah I always get the bombings mixed up.  The underground were connected to all sorts of stuff, but in the end... when a couple of murdering bank robbers can produce a radical son that is raised by their cohorts and becomes the DA of San Fran, I guess they win even from prison.

However you weren't wrong, turns out Susan Rosenberg is now "employed" by Thousand Currents, which does fundraising for BLM.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on February 05, 2021, 09:49:29 AM
However you weren't wrong, turns out Susan Rosenberg is now "employed" by Thousand Currents, which does fundraising for BLM.
Not any more, that arrangement ceased in 2020. For those who weren't following the discussion a while back, BLM is not a formally registered 501(c)3 organization (charity), so in order to get the various tax benefits they need to be sponsored by an established 501(c)3. Between 2012 and 2020 that was Thousands Currents, but since 2020 it's been TIDES. I'm not completely clear on the role of the sponsor, and there are two different way it can be set up and I couldn't figure out which BLM uses, but it sounds like it's more of an accounting/advisory role than direct fund raising support. The fund raising is handled by BLM, and also Act Blue, which is a fund raising/payment processor service that supports many leftist politicians and activist groups. There seems to be a lot of networking/interconnection between the different groups, and the different organizational structures can get complex due to various tax and political transparency laws (501(c)3 vs. 501(c)4 vs. PACs, for instance).
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: KingCheops on February 05, 2021, 10:19:50 AM
You might find this interesting: a summary of all of the election fraud cases and their outcomes.

http://wiseenergy.org/Energy/Election/2020_Election_Cases.htm

I don't know what the win rate is for cases normally but its better than a coin flip.  Trump's won 2/3rds of cases that where actually judged on merits instead of just thrown out.

Interesting that the globalist, warmonger favorite in Myanmar won a dodgy Dominion/Smartmatic election in Myanmar got tossed out on her ass by the military and now the Techno-Corporate Fascists are all up in arms.  To quote the world's most famous Techno-Corporate Fascist Autistic: "HOW DARE YOU!".
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: shuddemell on February 05, 2021, 10:41:36 AM
However you weren't wrong, turns out Susan Rosenberg is now "employed" by Thousand Currents, which does fundraising for BLM.
Not any more, that arrangement ceased in 2020. For those who weren't following the discussion a while back, BLM is not a formally registered 501(c)3 organization (charity), so in order to get the various tax benefits they need to be sponsored by an established 501(c)3. Between 2012 and 2020 that was Thousands Currents, but since 2020 it's been TIDES. I'm not completely clear on the role of the sponsor, and there are two different way it can be set up and I couldn't figure out which BLM uses, but it sounds like it's more of an accounting/advisory role than direct fund raising support. The fund raising is handled by BLM, and also Act Blue, which is a fund raising/payment processor service that supports many leftist politicians and activist groups. There seems to be a lot of networking/interconnection between the different groups, and the different organizational structures can get complex due to various tax and political transparency laws (501(c)3 vs. 501(c)4 vs. PACs, for instance).

Worse yet TIDES is a George Soros linked entity.... do we prefer an ex terrorist or ex Nazi? Neither says much for them. Another interesting factor is that Rosenberg is linked to both the 1971 and 1983 Capitol Bombings...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on February 05, 2021, 11:08:44 AM
Worse yet TIDES is a George Soros linked entity.... do we prefer an ex terrorist or ex Nazi? Neither says much for them. Another interesting factor is that Rosenberg is linked to both the 1971 and 1983 Capitol Bombings...
Soros isn't a Nazi, the worst you can really say is his family included collaborators, and Soros benefited from that. I'd say Rosenberg's connections are more disturbing. A lot of the violent activists from the 60s and 70s, like those involved in the Weather Underground, ended up in positions of power and influence, and I expect the same will be true with the new wave.

The Snopes "fact check" on Rosenberg is hilarious:
https://www snopes com/fact-check/blm-terrorist-rosenberg/ (not hotlinking; add the dots if you want check yourself)

They literally agree with every single point against her, but give a mixed result because apparently 740 lb of explosives isn't enough to qualify someone as a domestic terrorist.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on February 05, 2021, 12:11:22 PM
You might find this interesting: a summary of all of the election fraud cases and their outcomes.

http://wiseenergy.org/Energy/Election/2020_Election_Cases.htm

I don't know what the win rate is for cases normally but its better than a coin flip.  Trump's won 2/3rds of cases that where actually judged on merits instead of just thrown out.

But none of the cases won showed any election fraud. They were all about declared election procedure *before* the election, like the deadline for accepting ballots. Regardless of when that deadline is set to, it doesn't show that any number of votes are fraudulent. For example, Trump for President sued to keep Nevada polls open later than scheduled -- but that doesn't show fraud.


Interesting that the globalist, warmonger favorite in Myanmar won a dodgy Dominion/Smartmatic election in Myanmar got tossed out on her ass by the military and now the Techno-Corporate Fascists are all up in arms.  To quote the world's most famous Techno-Corporate Fascist Autistic: "HOW DARE YOU!".

Where do you see that Dominion/Smartmatic were involved in Myanmar? I didn't see that in any coverage of the military's complaints, and the fact checks that I see all say that they did not use any election machines. I'm not claiming either way about whether there was fraud or not in general, but what election machines were used is a basic fact that should be easily confirmed either way.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-dominion-myanmar/fact-check-myanmar-did-not-use-dominion-voting-systems-in-general-election-idUSKBN2A22ZO
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on February 05, 2021, 12:30:52 PM
You might find this interesting: a summary of all of the election fraud cases and their outcomes.

http://wiseenergy.org/Energy/Election/2020_Election_Cases.htm

I don't know what the win rate is for cases normally but its better than a coin flip.  Trump's won 2/3rds of cases that where actually judged on merits instead of just thrown out.

But none of the cases won showed any election fraud. They were all about declared election procedure *before* the election, like the deadline for accepting ballots. Regardless of when that deadline is set to, it doesn't show that any number of votes are fraudulent. For example, Trump for President sued to keep Nevada polls open later than scheduled -- but that doesn't show fraud.

...and 'election procedure' determines the absence or presence of 'fraud.'
Any intentional counting of votes that are "invalid" per the local legislation governing voting is technically 'fraudulent' as it satisfies the 'intent' hurdle.

The same principle applies the term 'homicide' to any killing even if never charged or prosecuted because of justifiable self defense.

The next logical questions... Did any place 'intentionally' count any ballots which were invalid per the local election procedures?  Did any place 'intentionally' refuse to follow the properly legislated election procedure during counting?  Has any Dominion contract forced a location to challenge any request made for records that are legally public?

 ;)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on February 05, 2021, 12:44:38 PM
Deepstate/oligarchy acknowledgment of election rigging as a times article


https://t.co/hnbIrLN4ts
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on February 05, 2021, 01:48:17 PM
But none of the cases won showed any election fraud. They were all about declared election procedure *before* the election, like the deadline for accepting ballots. Regardless of when that deadline is set to, it doesn't show that any number of votes are fraudulent. For example, Trump for President sued to keep Nevada polls open later than scheduled -- but that doesn't show fraud.
...and 'election procedure' determines the absence or presence of 'fraud.'
Any intentional counting of votes that are "invalid" per the local legislation governing voting is technically 'fraudulent' at it satisfies the 'intent' hurdle.

In Nevada, the polls would normally close at 7PM. But there were delays in opening some polls due to technical issues. Trump for President sued to keep many polling places open an extra hour until 8PM. They won that lawsuit. Here's a news story on that case:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/nevada-county-judge-keeps-some-polls-open-later-after-trump-campaign-sues

It sounds like you're implying that the extra votes taken after 7PM invalid and thus fraudulent. But as Trump for President argued, the procedure was already violated because they didn't open on time, so the deadline should have been extended. Like with many legal issues, the law is not perfectly clear here - which is why we have courts.

The legislature voted that the polls close at 7PM, but there needed to be redress for the fact that technical issues delayed the start. In this case, I agree with Trump for President and think extending the hours was justified -- and I don't think it is reasonable to call the post-7PM votes as fraudulent, given that the court found it to be justified.


The next logical questions... Did any place 'intentionally' count any ballots which were invalid per the local election procedures?  Did any place 'intentionally' refuse to follow the properly legislated election procedure during counting?  Has any Dominion contract forced a location to challenge any request made for records that are legally public?

Those are questions to be determined in court, as they have been. What I object to is claiming that (A) Republicans winning a lawsuit to extend deadlines from 7PM to 8PM somehow lends support to (B) the idea that Dominion fraudulently manufactured hundreds of thousand of votes in secret server farms in Germany, or similar claims of fraud.

Really, these are completely unrelated claims.

If anything, I think Trump winning a majority of his election-process lawsuits is evidence *against* the idea that the courts are all corrupt and under control of the Deep-State liberals, rigged against Trump. And if the courts aren't largely corrupt, then we should believe the results of court cases.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: shuddemell on February 05, 2021, 01:48:47 PM
Worse yet TIDES is a George Soros linked entity.... do we prefer an ex terrorist or ex Nazi? Neither says much for them. Another interesting factor is that Rosenberg is linked to both the 1971 and 1983 Capitol Bombings...
Soros isn't a Nazi, the worst you can really say is his family included collaborators, and Soros benefited from that. I'd say Rosenberg's connections are more disturbing. A lot of the violent activists from the 60s and 70s, like those involved in the Weather Underground, ended up in positions of power and influence, and I expect the same will be true with the new wave.

The Snopes "fact check" on Rosenberg is hilarious:
https://www snopes com/fact-check/blm-terrorist-rosenberg/ (not hotlinking; add the dots if you want check yourself)

They literally agree with every single point against her, but give a mixed result because apparently 740 lb of explosives isn't enough to qualify someone as a domestic terrorist.

You are right, he only collaborated. That's enough for me however, considering how cavalierly that term is used these days, I would say it is still on point, even if it isn't technically, exactly correct. Both are suspect on many levels.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on February 05, 2021, 01:54:34 PM
They literally agree with every single point against her, but give a mixed result because apparently 740 lb of explosives isn't enough to qualify someone as a domestic terrorist.

Domestic terrorists dont blow things up, they do things like getting invited into the capitol building by the police.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: shuddemell on February 05, 2021, 01:56:31 PM
...

If anything, I think Trump winning a majority of his election-process lawsuits is evidence *against* the idea that the courts are all corrupt and under control of the Deep-State liberals, rigged against Trump. And if the courts aren't largely corrupt, then we should believe the results of court cases.



Considering the number of cases NOT decided on the merits, I would suggest this is a premature conclusion... while I might agree with you if that were the only discrepancy, the fact that many of them ignored or never even heard the merits would lead me to hold on such a conclusion that there isn't rampant corruption in our courts. There are many ways to skin a cat, and the final legal determination is only one of them.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on February 05, 2021, 01:59:13 PM
Calling one group a domestic T but not another is not a statement about their tactics, as many leap to argue.

It is a statement about the status of their victims.  It is who was being protested that made the capitol incident a DT.  Likewise, why the summer of 2020 was not DT
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on February 05, 2021, 02:40:39 PM
Worse yet TIDES is a George Soros linked entity.... do we prefer an ex terrorist or ex Nazi? Neither says much for them. Another interesting factor is that Rosenberg is linked to both the 1971 and 1983 Capitol Bombings...
Soros isn't a Nazi, the worst you can really say is his family included collaborators, and Soros benefited from that. I'd say Rosenberg's connections are more disturbing. A lot of the violent activists from the 60s and 70s, like those involved in the Weather Underground, ended up in positions of power and influence, and I expect the same will be true with the new wave.

The Snopes "fact check" on Rosenberg is hilarious:
https://www snopes com/fact-check/blm-terrorist-rosenberg/ (not hotlinking; add the dots if you want check yourself)

They literally agree with every single point against her, but give a mixed result because apparently 740 lb of explosives isn't enough to qualify someone as a domestic terrorist.

You are right, he only collaborated. That's enough for me however, considering how cavalierly that term is used these days, I would say it is still on point, even if it isn't technically, exactly correct. Both are suspect on many levels.
No, he was taken around by a collaborator. Who seems to have saved lives, so it's not a clear cut case. But most importantly, Soros was 13 or 14. A child, without full agency. A child can't be held responsible for the actions of their parents and the other adults who helped raise them.

There are tons of reasons to criticize Soros, based on what he came to believe as an adult, and what he's done as an adult. Why not stick to the real ones?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: shuddemell on February 05, 2021, 03:02:50 PM
Worse yet TIDES is a George Soros linked entity.... do we prefer an ex terrorist or ex Nazi? Neither says much for them. Another interesting factor is that Rosenberg is linked to both the 1971 and 1983 Capitol Bombings...
Soros isn't a Nazi, the worst you can really say is his family included collaborators, and Soros benefited from that. I'd say Rosenberg's connections are more disturbing. A lot of the violent activists from the 60s and 70s, like those involved in the Weather Underground, ended up in positions of power and influence, and I expect the same will be true with the new wave.

The Snopes "fact check" on Rosenberg is hilarious:
https://www snopes com/fact-check/blm-terrorist-rosenberg/ (not hotlinking; add the dots if you want check yourself)

They literally agree with every single point against her, but give a mixed result because apparently 740 lb of explosives isn't enough to qualify someone as a domestic terrorist.

You are right, he only collaborated. That's enough for me however, considering how cavalierly that term is used these days, I would say it is still on point, even if it isn't technically, exactly correct. Both are suspect on many levels.
No, he was taken around by a collaborator. Who seems to have saved lives, so it's not a clear cut case. But most importantly, Soros was 13 or 14. A child, without full agency. A child can't be held responsible for the actions of their parents and the other adults who helped raise them.

There are tons of reasons to criticize Soros, based on what he came to believe as an adult, and what he's done as an adult. Why not stick to the real ones?

Nonsense. He actively participated in the removal of property from Jewish families... In his own words...

KROFT: Went out, in fact, and helped in the confiscation of property from the Jews.

Mr. SOROS: Yes. That’s right. Yes.

KROFT: I mean, that’s — that sounds like an experience that would send lots of people to the psychiatric couch for many, many years. Was it difficult?

Mr. SOROS: Not — not at all. Not at all. Maybe as a child you don’t — you don’t see the connection. But it was — it created no — no problem at all.

KROFT: No feeling of guilt?

Mr. SOROS: No.

KROFT: For example that, ‘I’m Jewish and here I am, watching these people go. I could just as easily be there. I should be there.’ None of that?

Mr. SOROS: Well, of course I c — I could be on the other side or I could be the one from whom the thing is being taken away. But there was no sense that I shouldn’t be there, because that was — well, actually, in a funny way, it’s just like in markets — that if I weren’t there — of course, I wasn’t doing it, but somebody else would — would — would be taking it away anyhow. And it was the — whether I was there or not, I was only a spectator, the property was being taken away. So the — I had no role in taking away that property. So I had no sense of guilt."

Now, while I agree that his age affects his culpability somewhat, it doesn't exonerate him from it entirely, and the weird way he justifies it as "It would've happened anyway" is both chilling and representative of the type of person who can and will justify it in anyway to avoid any kind of real responsibility. I suspect his involvement, based on the type of person he is, to be far greater and more "evil" than we will ever know. In either case, he was a collaborator, even simply by the definition of the word, and from his own statements, a willing one. You realize that 13 year olds have been tried and convicted as adults, for such serious crimes? We can disagree on the level of his involvement, but that involvement was both real and voluntary, and as such I am not willing to give him a pass, even if you are.

It should also be noted that his later adult actions breathe truth into these allegations as well, since over the years he has taken numerous and plentiful anti-semitic attacks and positions, supporting Hezbollah and Hamas to conducting many Anti-Israel and Anti-Jewish agendas. I believe in fact that this time which he described as "the most exciting time of my life" is the forge that tempered both his anti-semitism and sociopathy.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on February 05, 2021, 03:11:15 PM
If anything, I think Trump winning a majority of his election-process lawsuits is evidence *against* the idea that the courts are all corrupt and under control of the Deep-State liberals, rigged against Trump. And if the courts aren't largely corrupt, then we should believe the results of court cases.

Considering the number of cases NOT decided on the merits, I would suggest this is a premature conclusion... while I might agree with you if that were the only discrepancy, the fact that many of them ignored or never even heard the merits would lead me to hold on such a conclusion that there isn't rampant corruption in our courts. There are many ways to skin a cat, and the final legal determination is only one of them.

I don't think dismissal on technical grounds is evidence either way. Sometimes cases genuinely should be dismissed, I presume. Are there particular dismissals that you think should not have been dismissed, but instead heard out in court?

The one I'm most familiar with is the Texas Attorney General's lawsuit directly to the Supreme Court. In that case, all three of Trump's appointed Supreme Court justices (Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, Barrett) voted to deny for lack of standing. Only Alito and Thomas spoke in favor of allowing it to be filed, with no opinion on the merits. I am not a lawyer, but it seems to me reasonable that the case really did lack standing. Many lawyers called it essentially a publicity stunt that failed to follow basic legalities of filing.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/121120zr_p860.pdf

https://www.law.com/2020/12/08/no-chance-of-success-lawyers-demolishes-ken-paxtons-latest-election-lawsuit/
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on February 05, 2021, 03:31:23 PM
But none of the cases won showed any election fraud. They were all about declared election procedure *before* the election, like the deadline for accepting ballots. Regardless of when that deadline is set to, it doesn't show that any number of votes are fraudulent. For example, Trump for President sued to keep Nevada polls open later than scheduled -- but that doesn't show fraud.
...and 'election procedure' determines the absence or presence of 'fraud.'
Any intentional counting of votes that are "invalid" per the local legislation governing voting is technically 'fraudulent' at it satisfies the 'intent' hurdle.

In Nevada, the polls would normally close at 7PM. But there were delays in opening some polls due to technical issues. Trump for President sued to keep many polling places open an extra hour until 8PM. They won that lawsuit. Here's a news story on that case:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/nevada-county-judge-keeps-some-polls-open-later-after-trump-campaign-sues

It sounds like you're implying that the extra votes taken after 7PM invalid and thus fraudulent. But as Trump for President argued, the procedure was already violated because they didn't open on time, so the deadline should have been extended. Like with many legal issues, the law is not perfectly clear here - which is why we have courts.

The legislature voted that the polls close at 7PM, but there needed to be redress for the fact that technical issues delayed the start. In this case, I agree with Trump for President and think extending the hours was justified -- and I don't think it is reasonable to call the post-7PM votes as fraudulent, given that the court found it to be justified.


...and depending on what the law stated, the court is correct.  If the government failed to open at the legal time, then completing the 12 hour cycle as the court ruled may be appropriate and may even be part of the law itself...any court decision saying that one of the candidates on the ballot "lacked standing" to challenge some perceived election irregularity is by definition untrue and an incorrect ruling.  The candidate is obviously directly affected by the situation...but then that's a judge for you. They are 'infallible', just ask Justice Roberts.

However, you did not answer any of my questions...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on February 05, 2021, 03:33:42 PM
The one I'm most familiar with is the Texas Attorney General's lawsuit directly to the Supreme Court. In that case, all three of Trump's appointed Supreme Court justices (Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, Barrett) voted to deny for lack of standing. Only Alito and Thomas spoke in favor of allowing it to be filed, with no opinion on the merits. I am not a lawyer, but it seems to me reasonable that the case really did lack standing. Many lawyers called it essentially a publicity stunt that failed to follow basic legalities of filing.

As far as I know, the Supreme Court is the only place in the US that can legally decide issues between States so therefore Texas must have standing.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on February 05, 2021, 03:44:31 PM
Deepstate/oligarchy acknowledgment of election rigging as a times article


https://t.co/hnbIrLN4ts

"That’s why the participants want the secret history of the 2020 election told, even though it sounds like a paranoid fever dream–a well-funded cabal of powerful people, ranging across industries and ideologies, working together behind the scenes to influence perceptions, change rules and laws, steer media coverage and control the flow of information. They were not rigging the election; they were fortifying it."

Hey, widespread, top down election fraud is next to impossible! But a widespread, organized, top down effort to influence the elections happened and they want us to know it, because they think they saved us from Orange Hitler.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on February 05, 2021, 04:10:23 PM
No, he was taken around by a collaborator. Who seems to have saved lives, so it's not a clear cut case. But most importantly, Soros was 13 or 14. A child, without full agency. A child can't be held responsible for the actions of their parents and the other adults who helped raise them.

There are tons of reasons to criticize Soros, based on what he came to believe as an adult, and what he's done as an adult. Why not stick to the real ones?

Nonsense. He actively participated in the removal of property from Jewish families... In his own words...

KROFT: Went out, in fact, and helped in the confiscation of property from the Jews.

Mr. SOROS: Yes. That’s right. Yes.
In other words, he was taken around by a collaborator. Did your Mom or Dad ever take you to work when you were a young teenager? If they worked for the central bank that inflated the money supply, does that make you complicit in the later crash? Of course not.

You mention later antisemitic acts. Criticize him for those. Or all terrible economic policies.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on February 05, 2021, 04:49:35 PM
In Nevada, the polls would normally close at 7PM. But there were delays in opening some polls due to technical issues. Trump for President sued to keep many polling places open an extra hour until 8PM.

...and depending on what the law stated, the court is correct.  If the government failed to open at the legal time, then completing the 12 hour cycle as the court ruled may be appropriate and may even be part of the law itself...any court decision saying that one of the candidates on the ballot "lacked standing" to challenge some perceived election irregularity is by definition untrue and an incorrect ruling.  The candidate is obviously directly affected by the situation...but then that's a judge for you. They are 'infallible', just ask Justice Roberts.

However, you did not answer any of my questions...

I agree about the Nevada 7PM to 8PM lawsuit, that the court was correct. But I'm not sure what standing you're referring to here. In the case of the Texas AG lawsuit, the suit wasn't brought by one of the candidates in the 2020 election. It was brought directly by the Texas Attorney General, who was not up for re-election that year.

The next logical questions... Did any place 'intentionally' count any ballots which were invalid per the local election procedures?  Did any place 'intentionally' refuse to follow the properly legislated election procedure during counting?  Has any Dominion contract forced a location to challenge any request made for records that are legally public?

The short answer is - I don't know. There are hundreds of elections laws that differ by state and local jurisdiction, implemented across tens of thousands of polling places by hundreds of thousands of workers. It would not surprise me at all if there were some cases of failing to follow procedure, but I don't know of any specific cases where that was proven to be true.

But this sounds like more misdirection -- like saying that Republicans won the 7PM-to-8PM Nevada lawsuit somehow is evidence that there was widespread fraud in GA, MI, PA, and WI.

If you want to talk about evidence of widespread fraud, then talk about that. Where is the evidence and what are the sources?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on February 05, 2021, 05:11:28 PM
Where is the evidence and what are the sources?

Yes lets discuss the lack of transparency and continued refusal to allow meaningful auditing of the votes.

On second thoughts you can not discuss it because you lack standing.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on February 05, 2021, 05:21:56 PM
AOC wasn't just in another building (that was never breached), she claimed she thought pro-Trump attackers were breaking into her office an hour before anyone even breached the Capitol (the other building).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=275&v=prlmJQAf1ns

Edit: Fixed link.

typical click-bait bullshit youtube link.

There is no proof she is "lying" in any of that. First there is an allegation she got the time of day wrong. OK, so? Not a lie, she might just be wrong. But then it turns out what she heard was a captial police office banging on her door. Which...they were doing, well before the capitol was breached. And not just in the capitol, the capitol police were in her building gathering congresspeople there as well, again before the capitol was breached. So...her account there is not a lie at all.

this douchbag click-baiter who is rooking you for that sweet youtube ad dollars is making it seem like AOC could not have heard a police officer bang on her door and think it was rioters banging on her door earlier than the rioters were actually banging on the capitol door - as if she couldn't have mistaken a cop for a rioter banging in her door, or as if she couldn't have feared them breaking into her office building when they had not?

And then he goes on to claim nobody could have possibly thought they would try to break in before they tried to break in? No. Complete bullshit. Just because the capitol police and secret service were ill prepared for what happened does not mean people like AOC were not already fearing it would happen. Us gamers right here on this message board thought it might happen before it did for fuck's sake! Naw, this youtuber is a total lying fucker.

he's a douchebag, and you should not be following that douchebags clickbait videos.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: shuddemell on February 05, 2021, 05:26:56 PM
If anything, I think Trump winning a majority of his election-process lawsuits is evidence *against* the idea that the courts are all corrupt and under control of the Deep-State liberals, rigged against Trump. And if the courts aren't largely corrupt, then we should believe the results of court cases.

Considering the number of cases NOT decided on the merits, I would suggest this is a premature conclusion... while I might agree with you if that were the only discrepancy, the fact that many of them ignored or never even heard the merits would lead me to hold on such a conclusion that there isn't rampant corruption in our courts. There are many ways to skin a cat, and the final legal determination is only one of them.

I don't think dismissal on technical grounds is evidence either way. Sometimes cases genuinely should be dismissed, I presume. Are there particular dismissals that you think should not have been dismissed, but instead heard out in court?

The one I'm most familiar with is the Texas Attorney General's lawsuit directly to the Supreme Court. In that case, all three of Trump's appointed Supreme Court justices (Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, Barrett) voted to deny for lack of standing. Only Alito and Thomas spoke in favor of allowing it to be filed, with no opinion on the merits. I am not a lawyer, but it seems to me reasonable that the case really did lack standing. Many lawyers called it essentially a publicity stunt that failed to follow basic legalities of filing.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/121120zr_p860.pdf

https://www.law.com/2020/12/08/no-chance-of-success-lawyers-demolishes-ken-paxtons-latest-election-lawsuit/

No, I agree that some of the dismissals were likely legit, maybe all. Without actually reviewing each case, there's only so much I can infer from them. That's kind of my point, that we don't really know enough to really form a proper overall opinion. However, the other point I am making there is a simple one. If they refuse to hear a case and dismiss it with prejudice, that alone can be a form of corruption. And certainly a whole host of steps during the process can be used and abused for political reasons.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on February 05, 2021, 06:19:35 PM
AOC wasn't just in another building (that was never breached), she claimed she thought pro-Trump attackers were breaking into her office an hour before anyone even breached the Capitol (the other building).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=275&v=prlmJQAf1ns

Edit: Fixed link.

typical click-bait bullshit youtube link.

There is no proof she is "lying" in any of that. First there is an allegation she got the time of day wrong. OK, so? Not a lie, she might just be wrong. But then it turns out what she heard was a captial police office banging on her door. Which...they were doing, well before the capitol was breached. And not just in the capitol, the capitol police were in her building gathering congresspeople there as well, again before the capitol was breached. So...her account there is not a lie at all.

this douchbag click-baiter who is rooking you for that sweet youtube ad dollars is making it seem like AOC could not have heard a police officer bang on her door and think it was rioters banging on her door earlier than the rioters were actually banging on the capitol door - as if she couldn't have mistaken a cop for a rioter banging in her door, or as if she couldn't have feared them breaking into her office building when they had not?

And then he goes on to claim nobody could have possibly thought they would try to break in before they tried to break in? No. Complete bullshit. Just because the capitol police and secret service were ill prepared for what happened does not mean people like AOC were not already fearing it would happen. Us gamers right here on this message board thought it might happen before it did for fuck's sake! Naw, this youtuber is a total lying fucker.

he's a douchebag, and you should not be following that douchebags clickbait videos.
When your argument is based on the number of times you can force "douchebag" into a post, you probably don't have a good argument.

She claimed she was in the Capitol building with the protesters, but she wasn't. She was in her office across the street. She gave a specific time when she claimed she started fearing for her life. Except that time was an hour before the protesters passed the police line, and long, long before they even started evacuating people from the Capitol (the building across the street). She said she was evacuated because protesters were in the building. She wasn't. They evacuated her building because of a bomb threat. She claimed she believed that Trump supporters had broken into her office, and she hid because she feared for her life. Yet that was long before anything happened anywhere, she was nowhere near anything that happened, and nobody seriously believed there was any risk to anyone before the protesters entered the Capitol, so she would have had no basis to feel that way without hindsight. She fabricated an emotional story of victimhood and blame, almost a month after the fact, to get attention.

She's well into the liar liar pants on fire category, and this isn't the first time she's been caught fabricating sob stories.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on February 05, 2021, 06:42:46 PM
She's well into the liar liar pants on fire category, and this isn't the first time she's been caught fabricating sob stories.

(https://twitter.com/Lukewearechange/status/1357132202090315778/photo/1)


Maybe we can check with someone else who was working very close to AOC?

Quote
Rep. Nancy Mace @RepNancyMace

Feb 3
.@AOC
 made clear she didn’t know who was at her door. Breathless attempts by media to fan fictitious news flames are dangerous.

My office is 2 doors down. Insurrectionists never stormed our hallway. Egregious doesn’t even begin to cover it. Is there nothing MSM won’t politicize?

https://twitter.com/RepNancyMace/status/1356677360507052034?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1356677360507052034%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lotuseaters.com%2Fthe-podcast-of-the-lotus-eaters-61-04-02-21
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on February 05, 2021, 07:38:19 PM
Watch out!  Changing Narrative:


Quote
Wow, Voting Machines Don't Work, Say Democrats

“In this case, there is reason to believe that voting tabulation machines misread hundreds if not thousands of valid votes as undervotes, and that these tabulation machine errors disproportionately affected Brindisi,” the candidate’s lawyers said in Monday filings."

https://apnews.com/article/new-york-coronavirus-pandemic-elections-campaigns-claudia-tenney-0a859d2b16a187f0cbd506e7d912d500
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on February 05, 2021, 07:59:10 PM
In Nevada, the polls would normally close at 7PM. But there were delays in opening some polls due to technical issues. Trump for President sued to keep many polling places open an extra hour until 8PM.

...and depending on what the law stated, the court is correct.  If the government failed to open at the legal time, then completing the 12 hour cycle as the court ruled may be appropriate and may even be part of the law itself...any court decision saying that one of the candidates on the ballot "lacked standing" to challenge some perceived election irregularity is by definition untrue and an incorrect ruling.  The candidate is obviously directly affected by the situation...but then that's a judge for you. They are 'infallible', just ask Justice Roberts.

However, you did not answer any of my questions...

I agree about the Nevada 7PM to 8PM lawsuit, that the court was correct. But I'm not sure what standing you're referring to here. In the case of the Texas AG lawsuit, the suit wasn't brought by one of the candidates in the 2020 election. It was brought directly by the Texas Attorney General, who was not up for re-election that year.
Well...
First of all, if you read carefully you will note that I was specifically talking about the candidate's standing.  Evidently I wasn't referencing that particular lawsuit from Texas.  Weak attempt at a straw-man...made even more amateurish when you try and conflate the Texas AG and the term candidate, since it was the state of Texas which brought the lawsuit and not their AG as an individual...notice in your link how it says 'Texas vs Pennsylvania' and not 'Ken Paxton vs Pennsylvania'

The next logical questions... Did any place 'intentionally' count any ballots which were invalid per the local election procedures?  Did any place 'intentionally' refuse to follow the properly legislated election procedure during counting?  Has any Dominion contract forced a location to challenge any request made for records that are legally public?

The short answer is - I don't know. There are hundreds of elections laws that differ by state and local jurisdiction, implemented across tens of thousands of polling places by hundreds of thousands of workers. It would not surprise me at all if there were some cases of failing to follow procedure, but I don't know of any specific cases where that was proven to be true.

But this sounds like more misdirection -- like saying that Republicans won the 7PM-to-8PM Nevada lawsuit somehow is evidence that there was widespread fraud in GA, MI, PA, and WI.

If you want to talk about evidence of widespread fraud, then talk about that. Where is the evidence and what are the sources?

Did anyplace that has a 'legal requirement to allow observation during vote tabulating' suspend their counting and tell said legal observers that the count would begin again at a specific time...then start the tabulating earlier than stated without informing said observers? 

I don't remember...maybe I should Google it or something...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on February 06, 2021, 12:13:05 AM
Greetings!

The Fox News channel has canceled the "Lou Dobbs Tonight" program from the business news department, despite the "Lou Dobbs Tonight" program having strong ratings and viewership. Lou Dobbs is well-known for being a supporter of President Donald Trump and President Trump's policies.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: shuddemell on February 06, 2021, 01:33:52 AM
No, he was taken around by a collaborator. Who seems to have saved lives, so it's not a clear cut case. But most importantly, Soros was 13 or 14. A child, without full agency. A child can't be held responsible for the actions of their parents and the other adults who helped raise them.

There are tons of reasons to criticize Soros, based on what he came to believe as an adult, and what he's done as an adult. Why not stick to the real ones?

Nonsense. He actively participated in the removal of property from Jewish families... In his own words...

KROFT: Went out, in fact, and helped in the confiscation of property from the Jews.

Mr. SOROS: Yes. That’s right. Yes.
In other words, he was taken around by a collaborator. Did your Mom or Dad ever take you to work when you were a young teenager? If they worked for the central bank that inflated the money supply, does that make you complicit in the later crash? Of course not.

You mention later antisemitic acts. Criticize him for those. Or all terrible economic policies.

That's a wonderful false equivalence you’ve created there. Note it says PARTICIPATED in the removal of property, not that he was involuntarily drug around to watch the removal. You are implying his role was completely passive, but that is not what I took from his own statements on the issue. He never states he was afraid or coerced, only that he had no qualms about doing it. Also my intention was not to provide a detailed list of Soros crimes or misdeeds. That was only to provide context for my statement, not to get your permission to criticize his actions.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on February 06, 2021, 01:52:21 AM
No, he was taken around by a collaborator. Who seems to have saved lives, so it's not a clear cut case. But most importantly, Soros was 13 or 14. A child, without full agency. A child can't be held responsible for the actions of their parents and the other adults who helped raise them.

There are tons of reasons to criticize Soros, based on what he came to believe as an adult, and what he's done as an adult. Why not stick to the real ones?

Nonsense. He actively participated in the removal of property from Jewish families... In his own words...

KROFT: Went out, in fact, and helped in the confiscation of property from the Jews.

Mr. SOROS: Yes. That’s right. Yes.
In other words, he was taken around by a collaborator. Did your Mom or Dad ever take you to work when you were a young teenager? If they worked for the central bank that inflated the money supply, does that make you complicit in the later crash? Of course not.

You mention later antisemitic acts. Criticize him for those. Or all terrible economic policies.

That's a wonderful false equivalence you’ve created there. Note it says PARTICIPATED in the removal of property, not that he was involuntarily drug around to watch the removal. You are implying his role was completely passive, but that is not what I took from his own statements on the issue. He never states he was afraid or coerced, only that he had no qualms about doing it. Also my intention was not to provide a detailed list of Soros crimes or misdeeds. That was only to provide context for my statement, not to get your permission to criticize his actions.
It's a true equivalence. Take your kid to work day usually involves some level of participation. But if you think it's real or significant participation, then you're either delusional, or you're the one creating the false equivalence.

I'm going with #2.

Criticize him for the reams of real shit he's done. Don't pretend he's the Red Skull.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on February 06, 2021, 03:27:39 AM
Deepstate/oligarchy acknowledgment of election rigging as a times article


https://t.co/hnbIrLN4ts
My favorite quote:
Quote from: Time
That’s why the participants want the secret history of the 2020 election told, even though it sounds like a paranoid fever dream–a well-funded cabal of powerful people, ranging across industries and ideologies, working together behind the scenes to influence perceptions, change rules and laws, steer media coverage and control the flow of information. They were not rigging the election; they were fortifying it.
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. Rigging the election is fortifying democracy.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: shuddemell on February 06, 2021, 05:13:51 AM
No, he was taken around by a collaborator. Who seems to have saved lives, so it's not a clear cut case. But most importantly, Soros was 13 or 14. A child, without full agency. A child can't be held responsible for the actions of their parents and the other adults who helped raise them.

There are tons of reasons to criticize Soros, based on what he came to believe as an adult, and what he's done as an adult. Why not stick to the real ones?

Nonsense. He actively participated in the removal of property from Jewish families... In his own words...

KROFT: Went out, in fact, and helped in the confiscation of property from the Jews.

Mr. SOROS: Yes. That’s right. Yes.
In other words, he was taken around by a collaborator. Did your Mom or Dad ever take you to work when you were a young teenager? If they worked for the central bank that inflated the money supply, does that make you complicit in the later crash? Of course not.

You mention later antisemitic acts. Criticize him for those. Or all terrible economic policies.

That's a wonderful false equivalence you’ve created there. Note it says PARTICIPATED in the removal of property, not that he was involuntarily drug around to watch the removal. You are implying his role was completely passive, but that is not what I took from his own statements on the issue. He never states he was afraid or coerced, only that he had no qualms about doing it. Also my intention was not to provide a detailed list of Soros crimes or misdeeds. That was only to provide context for my statement, not to get your permission to criticize his actions.
It's a true equivalence. Take your kid to work day usually involves some level of participation. But if you think it's real or significant participation, then you're either delusional, or you're the one creating the false equivalence.

I'm going with #2.

Criticize him for the reams of real shit he's done. Don't pretend he's the Red Skull.

Wrong. Here's why, he KNOWINGLY did something he knew was wrong. When daddy took you to work, even if you did participate, you didn't know or believe it was wrong. Soros admitted in the interview that he knew taking the property was wrong and still he participated in it. That's the salient difference. I am curious why you think his participation wasn't real when he himself claimed it was. I don't know about you, but by the time I was thirteen I had a clear picture of right and wrong. I think you are giving children too little credit for what they know, and Soros way too much credit for being an innocent. Either way, you have provided NO proof that he didn't participate, that he was drug along rather than willingly participated, whereas I provided his own words. When someone shows or tells you who they are, it's a good idea to believe them. At this point, it's likely we'll have to agree to disagree. As far as being the Red Skull... that's laughable, as the Red Skull at least is entertaining.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on February 06, 2021, 10:35:41 AM
Wrong. Here's why, he KNOWINGLY did something he knew was wrong. When daddy took you to work, even if you did participate, you didn't know or believe it was wrong. Soros admitted in the interview that he knew taking the property was wrong and still he participated in it. That's the salient difference. I am curious why you think his participation wasn't real when he himself claimed it was. I don't know about you, but by the time I was thirteen I had a clear picture of right and wrong. I think you are giving children too little credit for what they know, and Soros way too much credit for being an innocent. Either way, you have provided NO proof that he didn't participate, that he was drug along rather than willingly participated, whereas I provided his own words. When someone shows or tells you who they are, it's a good idea to believe them. At this point, it's likely we'll have to agree to disagree. As far as being the Red Skull... that's laughable, as the Red Skull at least is entertaining.
Even very young children have moral codes, but they tend to be overly black and white and undeveloped. More importantly, they lack agency. They're not the ones going out starting businesses or taking jobs that involve confiscating property, they're just doing what they're told. There's a huge difference in both outlook and moral culpability.

And these are his own words, as quoted by you:
Quote
KROFT: Went out, in fact, and helped in the confiscation of property from the Jews.

Mr. SOROS: Yes. That’s right. Yes.

KROFT: I mean, that’s — that sounds like an experience that would send lots of people to the psychiatric couch for many, many years. Was it difficult?

Mr. SOROS: Not — not at all. Not at all. Maybe as a child you don’t — you don’t see the connection. But it was — it created no — no problem at all.

KROFT: No feeling of guilt?

Mr. SOROS: No.

KROFT: For example that, ‘I’m Jewish and here I am, watching these people go. I could just as easily be there. I should be there.’ None of that?

Mr. SOROS: Well, of course I c — I could be on the other side or I could be the one from whom the thing is being taken away. But there was no sense that I shouldn’t be there, because that was — well, actually, in a funny way, it’s just like in markets — that if I weren’t there — of course, I wasn’t doing it, but somebody else would — would — would be taking it away anyhow. And it was the — whether I was there or not, I was only a spectator, the property was being taken away. So the — I had no role in taking away that property. So I had no sense of guilt."
Guilt is the conscience's way of telling us something's wrong, and twice he said he had no guilt. That's the opposite of admitting he knew it was wrong. He's saying he didn't see the connection between his actions, and personal responsibility, because he was a child with no agency. The decisions of adults can be like witnessing a tsunami or earthquake to a child, a natural force they have no control over. Adults sometimes feel the same way; "I was just doing what I was told" is called the Nuremberg defense for a reason. But there's a vast difference between a child who is in the charge of adult guardians, and an adult who has to take legal, financial, and personal responsibility for their own life, regardless of their sense of being trapped or helpless.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on February 06, 2021, 11:06:37 AM
Greetings!

The Fox News channel has canceled the "Lou Dobbs Tonight" program from the business news department, despite the "Lou Dobbs Tonight" program having strong ratings and viewership. Lou Dobbs is well-known for being a supporter of President Donald Trump and President Trump's policies.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
He's also well-known for being a supporter of President Trump's post-election bullshit.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: shuddemell on February 06, 2021, 11:16:37 AM
Wrong. Here's why, he KNOWINGLY did something he knew was wrong. When daddy took you to work, even if you did participate, you didn't know or believe it was wrong. Soros admitted in the interview that he knew taking the property was wrong and still he participated in it. That's the salient difference. I am curious why you think his participation wasn't real when he himself claimed it was. I don't know about you, but by the time I was thirteen I had a clear picture of right and wrong. I think you are giving children too little credit for what they know, and Soros way too much credit for being an innocent. Either way, you have provided NO proof that he didn't participate, that he was drug along rather than willingly participated, whereas I provided his own words. When someone shows or tells you who they are, it's a good idea to believe them. At this point, it's likely we'll have to agree to disagree. As far as being the Red Skull... that's laughable, as the Red Skull at least is entertaining.
Even very young children have moral codes, but they tend to be overly black and white and undeveloped. More importantly, they lack agency. They're not the ones going out starting businesses or taking jobs that involve confiscating property, they're just doing what they're told. There's a huge difference in both outlook and moral culpability.

And these are his own words, as quoted by you:
Quote
KROFT: Went out, in fact, and helped in the confiscation of property from the Jews.

Mr. SOROS: Yes. That’s right. Yes.

KROFT: I mean, that’s — that sounds like an experience that would send lots of people to the psychiatric couch for many, many years. Was it difficult?

Mr. SOROS: Not — not at all. Not at all. Maybe as a child you don’t — you don’t see the connection. But it was — it created no — no problem at all.

KROFT: No feeling of guilt?

Mr. SOROS: No.

KROFT: For example that, ‘I’m Jewish and here I am, watching these people go. I could just as easily be there. I should be there.’ None of that?

Mr. SOROS: Well, of course I c — I could be on the other side or I could be the one from whom the thing is being taken away. But there was no sense that I shouldn’t be there, because that was — well, actually, in a funny way, it’s just like in markets — that if I weren’t there — of course, I wasn’t doing it, but somebody else would — would — would be taking it away anyhow. And it was the — whether I was there or not, I was only a spectator, the property was being taken away. So the — I had no role in taking away that property. So I had no sense of guilt."
Guilt is the conscience's way of telling us something's wrong, and twice he said he had no guilt. That's the opposite of admitting he knew it was wrong. He's saying he didn't see the connection between his actions, and personal responsibility, because he was a child with no agency. The decisions of adults can be like witnessing a tsunami or earthquake to a child, a natural force they have no control over. Adults sometimes feel the same way; "I was just doing what I was told" is called the Nuremberg defense for a reason. But there's a vast difference between a child who is in the charge of adult guardians, and an adult who has to take legal, financial, and personal responsibility for their own life, regardless of their sense of being trapped or helpless.

Sociopaths also have no sense of guilt... Seriously, at what point do you suddenly have agency? He wasn't 6 or 7, he was 13 and in many places at that time, that was old enough to be expected to take on the role of a man. While I am not suggesting he get the same thing the Nuremberg crew got, he certainly was old enough to be criticized for that behavior. If he were 16, he  could have gotten the rope. I also doubt the veracity of his claims, as it would be in his best interest to minimize his behavior, and his behavior thereafter convinces me that he was quite aware of what he was doing, why and the fact it caused him no guilt.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on February 06, 2021, 11:39:39 AM
Sociopaths also have no sense of guilt... Seriously, at what point do you suddenly have agency? He wasn't 6 or 7, he was 13 and in many places at that time, that was old enough to be expected to take on the role of a man. While I am not suggesting he get the same thing the Nuremberg crew got, he certainly was old enough to be criticized for that behavior. If he were 16, he  could have gotten the rope. I also doubt the veracity of his claims, as it would be in his best interest to minimize his behavior, and his behavior thereafter convinces me that he was quite aware of what he was doing, why and the fact it caused him no guilt.
There are developmental differences, and a brain doesn't become fully mature until the early 20s. But the difference in moral terms between a child and an adult is the degree of dependence or independence. Was he married? Did he have to pay rent or a mortgage? Was he the head of his own household? There have been many 13 year olds throughout history who were adults in that sense, but it's clear from his description that he was not. That's why I've been comparing it to a take your child to work day.

People only try to minimize their own behavior when they feel guilt for their actions, and you agree he didn't feel guilt. That lack of guilt could be pure sociopathy, but that's an extraordinary claim and thus places a significant burden of proof on you. The alternate explanation has a very low burden of proof: He didn't feel responsible because he was a child without agency, and didn't believe he had any control over the outcome.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: shuddemell on February 06, 2021, 11:48:54 AM
Sociopaths also have no sense of guilt... Seriously, at what point do you suddenly have agency? He wasn't 6 or 7, he was 13 and in many places at that time, that was old enough to be expected to take on the role of a man. While I am not suggesting he get the same thing the Nuremberg crew got, he certainly was old enough to be criticized for that behavior. If he were 16, he  could have gotten the rope. I also doubt the veracity of his claims, as it would be in his best interest to minimize his behavior, and his behavior thereafter convinces me that he was quite aware of what he was doing, why and the fact it caused him no guilt.
There are developmental differences, and a brain doesn't become fully mature until the early 20s. But the difference in moral terms between a child and an adult is the degree of dependence or independence. Was he married? Did he have to pay rent or a mortgage? Was he the head of his own household? There have been many 13 year olds throughout history who were adults in that sense, but it's clear from his description that he was not. That's why I've been comparing it to a take your child to work day.

People only try to minimize their own behavior when they feel guilt for their actions, and you agree he didn't feel guilt. That lack of guilt could be pure sociopathy, but that's an extraordinary claim and thus places a significant burden of proof on you. The alternate explanation has a very low burden of proof: He didn't feel responsible because he was a child without agency, and didn't believe he had any control over the outcome.

NO, people do not only try to minimize their actions when they feel guilt. They usually minimize their actions to avoid punishment, and fearing punishment is NOT the same as guilt. Secondly, I had great aunts that were married at 13, and were expected to act like adults from that day onward. That said, I might agree with you, had not his attitudes and actions after that event show full well that he is likely a sociopath, and certainly a malevolent actor on the world stage. He wasn't a child without agency, he MAY have had limited agency, but once again, it's not a line, it's a gradient, and his subsequent behavior convinces me that your "merciful" interpretation is off.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on February 06, 2021, 12:05:00 PM
NO, people do not only try to minimize their actions when they feel guilt. They usually minimize their actions to avoid punishment, and fearing punishment is NOT the same as guilt. Secondly, I had great aunts that were married at 13, and were expected to act like adults from that day onward. That said, I might agree with you, had not his attitudes and actions after that event show full well that he is likely a sociopath, and certainly a malevolent actor on the world stage. He wasn't a child without agency, he MAY have had limited agency, but once again, it's not a line, it's a gradient, and his subsequent behavior convinces me that your "merciful" interpretation is off.
Yes, people do try to minimize their actions when they feel guilt. It's call rationalization. And your great aunts were married at 13, which is exactly the point I'm making. The primary moral definition of adulthood is the degree to which someone is responsible for their own life and the life of others. Soros was not married at 13, was not the head of a household, and was not working a 5 to 9 job to support himself and his family. Instead, he was taken along and shown things by an adult. That demonstrates dependence.

I'd agree he's a bad actor, but I draw that conclusion based on his political and economic beliefs, and the actions he's taken based on them. You're starting with the idea that he's a sociopath, and explaining all his actions based on that axiomatic belief.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: shuddemell on February 06, 2021, 12:21:24 PM
NO, people do not only try to minimize their actions when they feel guilt. They usually minimize their actions to avoid punishment, and fearing punishment is NOT the same as guilt. Secondly, I had great aunts that were married at 13, and were expected to act like adults from that day onward. That said, I might agree with you, had not his attitudes and actions after that event show full well that he is likely a sociopath, and certainly a malevolent actor on the world stage. He wasn't a child without agency, he MAY have had limited agency, but once again, it's not a line, it's a gradient, and his subsequent behavior convinces me that your "merciful" interpretation is off.
Yes, people do try to minimize their actions when they feel guilt. It's call rationalization. And your great aunts were married at 13, which is exactly the point I'm making. The primary moral definition of adulthood is the degree to which someone is responsible for their own life and the life of others. Soros was not married at 13, was not the head of a household, and was not working a 5 to 9 job to support himself and his family. Instead, he was taken along and shown things by an adult. That demonstrates dependence.

I'd agree he's a bad actor, but I draw that conclusion based on his political and economic beliefs, and the actions he's taken based on them. You're starting with the idea that he's a sociopath, and explaining all his actions based on that axiomatic belief.

I didn't say they don't, I said that is not the ONLY reason, which is what you claimed. Not really starting with that belief, I am basing my opinion of him on a lifetime of actions. Actions, which to me confirm, that his early misdeeds are not the actions of someone without agency, but someone acting on beliefs that have remained largely consistent over his whole life. Looks to me like he laid down with antisemites and got up a fascist.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on February 06, 2021, 12:38:02 PM
NO, people do not only try to minimize their actions when they feel guilt. They usually minimize their actions to avoid punishment, and fearing punishment is NOT the same as guilt. Secondly, I had great aunts that were married at 13, and were expected to act like adults from that day onward. That said, I might agree with you, had not his attitudes and actions after that event show full well that he is likely a sociopath, and certainly a malevolent actor on the world stage. He wasn't a child without agency, he MAY have had limited agency, but once again, it's not a line, it's a gradient, and his subsequent behavior convinces me that your "merciful" interpretation is off.
Yes, people do try to minimize their actions when they feel guilt. It's call rationalization. And your great aunts were married at 13, which is exactly the point I'm making. The primary moral definition of adulthood is the degree to which someone is responsible for their own life and the life of others. Soros was not married at 13, was not the head of a household, and was not working a 5 to 9 job to support himself and his family. Instead, he was taken along and shown things by an adult. That demonstrates dependence.

I'd agree he's a bad actor, but I draw that conclusion based on his political and economic beliefs, and the actions he's taken based on them. You're starting with the idea that he's a sociopath, and explaining all his actions based on that axiomatic belief.

I didn't say they don't, I said that is not the ONLY reason, which is what you claimed. Not really starting with that belief, I am basing my opinion of him on a lifetime of actions. Actions, which to me confirm, that his early misdeeds are not the actions of someone without agency, but someone acting on beliefs that have remained largely consistent over his whole life. Looks to me like he laid down with antisemites and got up a fascist.
I don't think that's a useful distinction. In any case, we seem to disagree on fundamentals rather than reasoning or facts, so talking it out further seems futile.

But I'll bring up one final point, which I hinted at earlier but didn't directly state: I don't think claiming Soros is a Nazi helps. It's contentious and so loaded it tends to skews conversations, and there's plenty of reasons to dislike him without bringing it up.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on February 06, 2021, 12:39:57 PM
Deepstate/oligarchy acknowledgment of election rigging as a times article


https://t.co/hnbIrLN4ts
My favorite quote:
Quote from: Time
That’s why the participants want the secret history of the 2020 election told, even though it sounds like a paranoid fever dream–a well-funded cabal of powerful people, ranging across industries and ideologies, working together behind the scenes to influence perceptions, change rules and laws, steer media coverage and control the flow of information. They were not rigging the election; they were fortifying it.
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. Rigging the election is fortifying democracy.

It's amazing, and should recalibrate all of us regarding where they see what they can freely say vs what we'd think someone would ever freely admit to; it tells us to remap mentally what and where we think the country is.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on February 06, 2021, 12:56:22 PM
There are hundreds of elections laws that differ by state and local jurisdiction, implemented across tens of thousands of polling places by hundreds of thousands of workers. It would not surprise me at all if there were some cases of failing to follow procedure, but I don't know of any specific cases where that was proven to be true.

But this sounds like more misdirection -- like saying that Republicans won the 7PM-to-8PM Nevada lawsuit somehow is evidence that there was widespread fraud in GA, MI, PA, and WI.

If you want to talk about evidence of widespread fraud, then talk about that. Where is the evidence and what are the sources?

Did anyplace that has a 'legal requirement to allow observation during vote tabulating' suspend their counting and tell said legal observers that the count would begin again at a specific time...then start the tabulating earlier than stated without informing said observers? 

I don't remember...maybe I should Google it or something...[/quote]

So you're talking about the State Farm Arena video in Fulton County, Georgia. Someone did put narration onto a security video making that claim -- but there has not been any testimony from the Republican legal observers to that effect. i.e. The observers who were supposedly lied to have not backed up this claim. If one claims that "Well, the Republican observers were corrupted - that's why they're not testifying" -- but if so, what good would they have done as observers in the first place?

The video narration also claimed that the workers started taking ballots out of surreptitious suitcases -- but investigators questioned the workers and looked over the tapes, and confirmed that those were the official ballot containers, and were openly placed there earlier in the day in front of observers (as shown on camera).

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fulton-county-georgia-no-mystery-ballots-under-table-investigator-affidavit
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: shuddemell on February 06, 2021, 01:03:03 PM
NO, people do not only try to minimize their actions when they feel guilt. They usually minimize their actions to avoid punishment, and fearing punishment is NOT the same as guilt. Secondly, I had great aunts that were married at 13, and were expected to act like adults from that day onward. That said, I might agree with you, had not his attitudes and actions after that event show full well that he is likely a sociopath, and certainly a malevolent actor on the world stage. He wasn't a child without agency, he MAY have had limited agency, but once again, it's not a line, it's a gradient, and his subsequent behavior convinces me that your "merciful" interpretation is off.
Yes, people do try to minimize their actions when they feel guilt. It's call rationalization. And your great aunts were married at 13, which is exactly the point I'm making. The primary moral definition of adulthood is the degree to which someone is responsible for their own life and the life of others. Soros was not married at 13, was not the head of a household, and was not working a 5 to 9 job to support himself and his family. Instead, he was taken along and shown things by an adult. That demonstrates dependence.

I'd agree he's a bad actor, but I draw that conclusion based on his political and economic beliefs, and the actions he's taken based on them. You're starting with the idea that he's a sociopath, and explaining all his actions based on that axiomatic belief.

I didn't say they don't, I said that is not the ONLY reason, which is what you claimed. Not really starting with that belief, I am basing my opinion of him on a lifetime of actions. Actions, which to me confirm, that his early misdeeds are not the actions of someone without agency, but someone acting on beliefs that have remained largely consistent over his whole life. Looks to me like he laid down with antisemites and got up a fascist.
I don't think that's a useful distinction. In any case, we seem to disagree on fundamentals rather than reasoning or facts, so talking it out further seems futile.

But I'll bring up one final point, which I hinted at earlier but didn't directly state: I don't think claiming Soros is a Nazi helps. It's contentious and so loaded it tends to skews conversations, and there's plenty of reasons to dislike him without bringing it up.

Agreed, as I mentioned earlier, we will have to agree to disagree. No biggie. I would agree with your last point, and I was being hyperbolic to a degree to note that while Susan Roseberg (being a terrorist) is no longer involved with BLM, that it just is being handled by a Soros entity, and I don't think that is necessarily a move for the better. Nazi, fascist or just a run of the mill totalitarian cancer, I definitely am suspect of everything and anything he has his putrid little claws in.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on February 06, 2021, 01:23:10 PM
There are hundreds of elections laws that differ by state and local jurisdiction, implemented across tens of thousands of polling places by hundreds of thousands of workers. It would not surprise me at all if there were some cases of failing to follow procedure, but I don't know of any specific cases where that was proven to be true.

But this sounds like more misdirection -- like saying that Republicans won the 7PM-to-8PM Nevada lawsuit somehow is evidence that there was widespread fraud in GA, MI, PA, and WI.

If you want to talk about evidence of widespread fraud, then talk about that. Where is the evidence and what are the sources?
Did anyplace that has a 'legal requirement to allow observation during vote tabulating' suspend their counting and tell said legal observers that the count would begin again at a specific time...then start the tabulating earlier than stated without informing said observers? 

I don't remember...maybe I should Google it or something...
So you're talking about the State Farm Arena video in Fulton County, Georgia. Someone did put narration onto a security video making that claim -- but there has not been any testimony from the Republican legal observers to that effect. i.e. The observers who were supposedly lied to have not backed up this claim. If one claims that "Well, the Republican observers were corrupted - that's why they're not testifying" -- but if so, what good would they have done as observers in the first place?

The video narration also claimed that the workers started taking ballots out of surreptitious suitcases -- but investigators questioned the workers and looked over the tapes, and confirmed that those were the official ballot containers, and were openly placed there earlier in the day in front of observers (as shown on camera).

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fulton-county-georgia-no-mystery-ballots-under-table-investigator-affidavit

I don't know about the video...never watched it.
I also didn't say anything about pulling out cases of fake ballots. 
I specifically said exactly what I meant to say...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on February 06, 2021, 02:02:31 PM
Did anyplace that has a 'legal requirement to allow observation during vote tabulating' suspend their counting and tell said legal observers that the count would begin again at a specific time...then start the tabulating earlier than stated without informing said observers? 

I don't remember...maybe I should Google it or something...
So you're talking about the State Farm Arena video in Fulton County, Georgia. Someone did put narration onto a security video making that claim -- but there has not been any testimony from the Republican legal observers to that effect. i.e. The observers who were supposedly lied to have not backed up this claim. If one claims that "Well, the Republican observers were corrupted - that's why they're not testifying" -- but if so, what good would they have done as observers in the first place?

The video narration also claimed that the workers started taking ballots out of surreptitious suitcases -- but investigators questioned the workers and looked over the tapes, and confirmed that those were the official ballot containers, and were openly placed there earlier in the day in front of observers (as shown on camera).

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fulton-county-georgia-no-mystery-ballots-under-table-investigator-affidavit

I don't know about the video...never watched it.
I also didn't say anything about pulling out cases of fake ballots. 
I specifically said exactly what I meant to say...
[/quote]

Your claim, as I understand it, is that election officials lied to the legal observers. What is your evidence of that?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on February 06, 2021, 03:13:35 PM
Did anyplace that has a 'legal requirement to allow observation during vote tabulating' suspend their counting and tell said legal observers that the count would begin again at a specific time...then start the tabulating earlier than stated without informing said observers? 

I don't remember...maybe I should Google it or something...
So you're talking about the State Farm Arena video in Fulton County, Georgia. Someone did put narration onto a security video making that claim -- but there has not been any testimony from the Republican legal observers to that effect. i.e. The observers who were supposedly lied to have not backed up this claim. If one claims that "Well, the Republican observers were corrupted - that's why they're not testifying" -- but if so, what good would they have done as observers in the first place?

The video narration also claimed that the workers started taking ballots out of surreptitious suitcases -- but investigators questioned the workers and looked over the tapes, and confirmed that those were the official ballot containers, and were openly placed there earlier in the day in front of observers (as shown on camera).

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fulton-county-georgia-no-mystery-ballots-under-table-investigator-affidavit

I don't know about the video...never watched it.
I also didn't say anything about pulling out cases of fake ballots. 
I specifically said exactly what I meant to say...

Your claim, as I understand it, is that election officials lied to the legal observers. What is your evidence of that?

https://twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/1323846118208376834 (https://twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/1323846118208376834)
...evidently vote counters were sent home at 10:30 by someone acting in an 'official capacity'

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/20420331/mitchell-harrison-affidavit.pdf (https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/20420331/mitchell-harrison-affidavit.pdf)
...and apparently legal observers saw and heard someone in an 'official capacity' tell the counters to go home and not come back until 8:30 AM...

Unless you think a 'government agent acting in an official capacity' giving an order (with you actually present as an interested 3rd party) isn't informing you of said order.

good luck defending yourself with that...

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on February 06, 2021, 07:37:04 PM
Your claim, as I understand it, is that election officials lied to the legal observers. What is your evidence of that?

https://twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/1323846118208376834 (https://twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/1323846118208376834)
...evidently vote counters were sent home at 10:30 by someone acting in an 'official capacity'

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/20420331/mitchell-harrison-affidavit.pdf (https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/20420331/mitchell-harrison-affidavit.pdf)
...and apparently legal observers saw and heard someone in an 'official capacity' tell the counters to go home and not come back until 8:30 AM...

Unless you think a 'government agent acting in an official capacity' giving an order (with you actually present as an interested 3rd party) isn't informing you of said order.

Thanks for the affidavit link. I hadn't seen the affidavit text before - only summaries. For reference, I also checked the affidavit of the other observer, Michelle Branton, that I found based on yours.

https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/BrantonAffidavit.pdf

Still, this is consistent with the fact checks that I read. Their testimony is that they overheard an unnamed woman telling workers to go home, and so they left. But (1) they both knew that there were ballot workers still there at the site and clearly say so, and (2) they don't attest to being told the work timetable directly, only that they overheard that order by the unnamed woman to workers.

The account I read from investigators is that most of the workers went home (the envelope openers), but the counters stayed and continued to process. It's possible that the observers misinterpreted the overheard command - thinking that it meant that all work was stopped, when it was only directed at some of the workers but not all.

It comes down to that one overheard command and who it was being said to. The testimony doesn't rule that out, in my opinion. Of course, it could be possible that the command was a ruse purely to deceive the Republican observers, and the workers heard it but were in on the secret plan. But I don't think the testimony clearly distinguishes.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on February 06, 2021, 08:25:35 PM
...except the argument that they 'misread' the intention doesn't fly when combined with the fact that Waller informed ABC news that the counting at that location was stopped at 10:30...which means the 'supervisor' apparently did, in fact, issue instructions for everyone to go home and come back for later counting.

Even more so, since the witnesses were questioning Waller (who was present at the location in question during the order) about the number of ballots that were left to count...a question she specifically refused to answer...

...or are you just gonna fall back on the 'maybe ABC misinterpreted what they heard' defense...or maybe Waller 'misunderstood' what the orders were and she just made a misstatement to the media... ::)



Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on February 06, 2021, 08:54:49 PM
Unless you establish beforehand what is the necessary threshold of evidence the skeptic agrees will change their held view, skeptics will play “bring me a rock” with you all the live-long day
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on February 06, 2021, 09:56:51 PM
Unless you establish beforehand what is the necessary threshold of evidence the skeptic agrees will change their held view, skeptics will play “bring me a rock” with you all the live-long day

Yeah, but I'm doing it because there might be people looking who are actually interested in evidence and capable of critical thought.  That way they see some data without all of the attached zealotry.  If I can convince one person to at least 'question authority' no matter who is in charge, then I've at least accomplished something useful with my time.     ;)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on February 06, 2021, 10:33:28 PM
I've at least accomplished something useful with my time.     ;)
Consider where you're posting. Nothing useful will come of this.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on February 07, 2021, 12:27:13 AM
I've at least accomplished something useful with my time.     ;)
Consider where you're posting. Nothing useful will come of this.

Maybe, maybe not...but a big part of 'questioning authority' is to do your own research and analysis...and if anyone decides to do that based on something I post, then I have done something useful...whether I realize it or not.

If all you want to do is watch MSNBC, Fox, or CNN or else read WaPo, NYT, and Breitbart, then I don't have much to offer...but there are some people who aren't sheep.

You fail to see that because you divide people into categories based on some misguided perception of politics.

If you can't fit me into one of your boxes maybe you should look at acquiring some new boxes.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on February 07, 2021, 12:47:49 AM
You fail to see that because you divide people into categories based on some misguided perception of politics.

If you can't fit me into one of your boxes maybe you should look at acquiring some new boxes.
::)  That's a load of shit.

What are those categories I divide people into? What boxes am I trying to fit you into?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on February 07, 2021, 01:36:48 AM
Unless you establish beforehand what is the necessary threshold of evidence the skeptic agrees will change their held view, skeptics will play “bring me a rock” with you all the live-long day

Yeah, but I'm doing it because there might be people looking who are actually interested in evidence and capable of critical thought.  That way they see some data without all of the attached zealotry.  If I can convince one person to at least 'question authority' no matter who is in charge, then I've at least accomplished something useful with my time.     ;)

Fair
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on February 07, 2021, 01:37:12 AM
double post
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on February 07, 2021, 02:46:36 AM
You fail to see that because you divide people into categories based on some misguided perception of politics.

If you can't fit me into one of your boxes maybe you should look at acquiring some new boxes.
::)  That's a load of shit.

What are those categories I divide people into? What boxes am I trying to fit you into?

Apparently, one of your 'dangerously guilty of wrongthink' boxes since you felt compelled to inform me that I was wasting my time by posting here...by yourself posting here to inform me of that.

I find it interesting that you chose to respond not to the actual discussion between myself and jhkim but instead felt compelled to comment when I explained that my goal was to get people to think for themselves...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on February 07, 2021, 02:57:07 AM

Apparently, one of your 'dangerously guilty of wrongthink' boxes since you felt compelled to inform me that I was wasting my time by posting here...by yourself posting here to inform me of that.

I find it interesting that you chose to respond not to the actual discussion between myself and jhkim but instead felt compelled to comment when I explained that my goal was to get people to think for themselves...
HappyDaze is capable of thought, but has given up on most discussions on this board and deliberately trolls most of the time instead. Everything you just said is logical in that context.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on February 07, 2021, 09:26:22 AM
You fail to see that because you divide people into categories based on some misguided perception of politics.

If you can't fit me into one of your boxes maybe you should look at acquiring some new boxes.
::)  That's a load of shit.

What are those categories I divide people into? What boxes am I trying to fit you into?

Apparently, one of your 'dangerously guilty of wrongthink' boxes since you felt compelled to inform me that I was wasting my time by posting here...by yourself posting here to inform me of that.

I find it interesting that you chose to respond not to the actual discussion between myself and jhkim but instead felt compelled to comment when I explained that my goal was to get people to think for themselves...
I don't think you're "dangerously guilty of wrongthink" (I save that distinction for the assholes promoting violence) but I do think everything on this board is essentially a waste of time. I'm OK with wasting my time and that of others too so long as they want to play. I was just pointing out that this is probably a poor venue for your life changing efforts, but so long as you're OK with wasting your time, be my guest.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on February 07, 2021, 10:33:02 AM
AOC wasn't just in another building (that was never breached), she claimed she thought pro-Trump attackers were breaking into her office an hour before anyone even breached the Capitol (the other building).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=275&v=prlmJQAf1ns

Edit: Fixed link.

typical click-bait bullshit youtube link.

There is no proof she is "lying" in any of that. First there is an allegation she got the time of day wrong. OK, so? Not a lie, she might just be wrong. But then it turns out what she heard was a captial police office banging on her door. Which...they were doing, well before the capitol was breached. And not just in the capitol, the capitol police were in her building gathering congresspeople there as well, again before the capitol was breached. So...her account there is not a lie at all.

this douchbag click-baiter who is rooking you for that sweet youtube ad dollars is making it seem like AOC could not have heard a police officer bang on her door and think it was rioters banging on her door earlier than the rioters were actually banging on the capitol door - as if she couldn't have mistaken a cop for a rioter banging in her door, or as if she couldn't have feared them breaking into her office building when they had not?

And then he goes on to claim nobody could have possibly thought they would try to break in before they tried to break in? No. Complete bullshit. Just because the capitol police and secret service were ill prepared for what happened does not mean people like AOC were not already fearing it would happen. Us gamers right here on this message board thought it might happen before it did for fuck's sake! Naw, this youtuber is a total lying fucker.

he's a douchebag, and you should not be following that douchebags clickbait videos.
She claimed she was in the Capitol building with the protesters, but she wasn't. She was in her office across the street.

Not only is that not what she claimed, that's also not what the video you posted is even about.

Quote
She gave a specific time when she claimed she started fearing for her life. Except that time was an hour before the protesters passed the police line, and long, long before they even started evacuating people from the Capitol (the building across the street).

Incorrect and ALSO not what the video you posted claimes.

The video you posted claims the rioters BROKE INTO the capital an hour later. But prior to that, capital police were already moving congrespeople and staff out of buildings. She says she feared for her life WHEN A POLICE OFFER BANGED ON HER DOOR because she THOUGHT IT WAS A RIOTER. Which is perfectly reasonable.

Quote
She said she was evacuated because protesters were in the building. She wasn't.

She said she THOUGHT THEY WERE in the building but then later realized it was the police. She thought that because there were very angry rioters in the square already, it was fucking obvious to everyone that they wanted in, it was totally rational for her to think they had gotten in an hour before they had, and there is nothing "lying" about saying "I thought they had gotten in" before they had because you heard banging on your door.

I don't know what is worse - that you promote a bullshit video, or that you don't even know what's in the video you promoted.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on February 07, 2021, 12:07:56 PM
She claimed she was in the Capitol building with the protesters, but she wasn't. She was in her office across the street.

Not only is that not what she claimed, that's also not what the video you posted is even about.

Quote
She gave a specific time when she claimed she started fearing for her life. Except that time was an hour before the protesters passed the police line, and long, long before they even started evacuating people from the Capitol (the building across the street).

Incorrect and ALSO not what the video you posted claimes.

The video you posted claims the rioters BROKE INTO the capital an hour later. But prior to that, capital police were already moving congrespeople and staff out of buildings. She says she feared for her life WHEN A POLICE OFFER BANGED ON HER DOOR because she THOUGHT IT WAS A RIOTER. Which is perfectly reasonable.

Quote
She said she was evacuated because protesters were in the building. She wasn't.

She said she THOUGHT THEY WERE in the building but then later realized it was the police. She thought that because there were very angry rioters in the square already, it was fucking obvious to everyone that they wanted in, it was totally rational for her to think they had gotten in an hour before they had, and there is nothing "lying" about saying "I thought they had gotten in" before they had because you heard banging on your door.

I don't know what is worse - that you promote a bullshit video, or that you don't even know what's in the video you promoted.
Did I cite that video in the post you just replied to? No, I did not. I cited it several posts ago, to back up a specific claim I made in that time. I did that because it was breaking news and hadn't been covered widely, at the time of my post. I picked Tim Pool's video, because it was the first source I was aware of that laid exactly what she said about the timing of events, and compared it to other sources (in this case, the NYT's timeline), and thus showed how her claims made no sense at all.

In the post you just replied to, I presented a complete summary of her many lies, instead of focusing on that one piece of breaking news. I didn't cite a specific source, because everything I said has since been widely covered. You can easily find sources backing up all my statements.

It's funny that you think you're rebutting my post by saying a video I didn't reference doesn't say something. And it's doubly funny, because the video literally about what you're saying it's not about (her lie about the timing), and it also specifically mentions other things you say it didn't mention (her being across the street instead of in the Capitol building, for instance).

You really seem obsessed with the sociopathic socialist and beanie boy. You might want to get help.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on February 07, 2021, 01:28:41 PM
To moonsweeper -- I came into the State Farm Arena claims on the basis of the narrated security video with its claims about surreptitious suitcases. As I now understand it, you aren't supporting those claims and haven't seen the video. But if you aren't supporting that, then I don't see the point in the bigger picture.

I've seen the video. The workers were on camera the whole time. If the Republican observers had been there, they would have seen exactly what the cameras saw. Actually, from their testimony, is sounds like the cameras had a better view than they did. That camera footage has been reviewed by election officials and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, and they found that nothing illegal was shown. The containers were not suitcases - they were the official ballot bins, and they were openly placed there earlier in the day, again confirmed by security camera footage.

If there was nothing illegal visibly being done, what would be the point of intentionally sending away the Republican observers?


...except the argument that they 'misread' the intention doesn't fly when combined with the fact that Waller informed ABC news that the counting at that location was stopped at 10:30...which means the 'supervisor' apparently did, in fact, issue instructions for everyone to go home and come back for later counting.

Even more so, since the witnesses were questioning Waller (who was present at the location in question during the order) about the number of ballots that were left to count...a question she specifically refused to answer...

...or are you just gonna fall back on the 'maybe ABC misinterpreted what they heard' defense...or maybe Waller 'misunderstood' what the orders were and she just made a misstatement to the media... ::)

How does Waller not answering about the number of ballots show anything here? You're implying that she secretly knew how many ballots were left to count -- but she intentionally refused to tell that to the observers. It seems to me more likely that she's just a PR person and she didn't have the exact count. To my mind, this further confirms that the observers were *not* lied to. They were *not* told that the counting was finished. And by their own testimony, they knew that there were workers still there on site, and they left only because of the overheard command by the one unnamed woman.

The ABC News tweet is not confirmation, since the observer's sworn testimony is that they were *not* told the counting was over by the PR person Waller or anyone else in the organization.

For comparison, this was the statement from Fulton County Elections Director Rick Barron:

Quote
I'll just address the timeline of that evening - the staff at State Farm that evening, they began letting certain people go, no announcement was ever made to leave, for anyone to leave. Certain staff that were on the cutting stations, that were on the flattening stations, that were extracting from the inner envelopes, those staff left as work completed. I found out sometime, I think a little after 10:30, that they were gonna cease operations and I told them not to do that... at about 11:15 they were fully scanning again, and once they were scanning Carter Jones, the State Election Board monitor, he told me 11:42 or 11:52 that he arrived. There were media in the room, external affairs representative there until approximately 11:15. The Secretary of States investigator arrived at 12:15, and they scanned until all the ballots they had available to scan were complete and then cleaned up the room.
Source: https://www.12newsnow.com/article/news/politics/elections/georgia-recount-results-live-blog-dec-3/85-a4209de7-4213-4fe8-96be-37d7a2aa7676

He wasn't on site, but he heard that they were "going to cease operations". That implies that someone in the organization did think that operations would cease. Given that, it seems possible that he was wrong - and that someone on site did make an announcement that he later contradicted.

In the bigger picture, no one disputes that multiple people did have the impression that counting was over. That is the fault of the election organizers, who should have properly communicated. The question is -- was that an intentional concerted lie by the organization to fool away the Republican observers -- or was it indeed a miscommunication, where individuals made mistakes and/or misunderstood?

And as I mentioned at the beginning, if it was a lie - what was the point, given that the workers were on camera the whole time, and that camera footage has been carefully reviewed.

The evidence here is the one overheard command in the affidavits and one tweet -- and I don't think those two pieces convey that there was a criminal conspiracy to lie.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on February 07, 2021, 02:17:38 PM
From your article, bold emphasis mine

Quote
"I'll just address the timeline of that evening - the staff at State Farm that evening, they began letting certain people go, no announcement was ever made to leave, for anyone to leave.  Certain staff that were on the cutting stations, that were on the flattening stations, that were extracting from the inner envelopes, those staff left as work completed. I found out sometime, I think a little after10:30, that they were gonna cease operations and I told them not to do that... at about 11:15 they were fully scanning again, and once they were scanning Carter Jones, the State Election Board monitor, he told me 11:42 or 11:52 that he arrived. There were media in the room, external affairs representative there until approximately 11:15. The Secretary of States investigator arrived at 12:15, and they scanned until all the ballots they had available to scan were complete and then cleaned up the room.

Bolded directly contradicts the affidavit, which says that people were told to leave and come back at 8:30 AM...

about the ABC Tweet...so ABC lied when they said Waller told them counting ceased at 10:30 or else Waller lied to ABC about the announcement to stop and go home (since she was present at the location when the announcement was made she should know)...pick one


As to why someone might have lied...

1) Why were the observers not granted access to view the scanning machines...if the machines are counting the votes that is part of the process to which they are to be given access.

2) If they were still counting why did they send anyone away and have one of the remaining employees start sanitizing...according to the italicized portion above, their work was done...but wait...it wasn't done, because there were still more unopened ballots in the 'boxes' you seem so focused on.

3) Why did Waller refuse to answer the quantity question...per the affidavit, she was asked at least 3 times and she never said she 'did not know'.  She called someone to tell them she was being asked.  Then she finally claims that it 'was available on the website'...why not just have the supervisor inform them of the remaining count?...I wonder if who the phone call recipient was came up in the 'investigation'?

4) You keep bringing up the 'suitcases' that were actually real ballot containers...I never made any claim those weren't real ballot containers...so I'm not sure what you are refuting here.

5) As to the validity of the specific ballots in said containers...I might have some questions there, but I am just pointing out problems with the whole process...

6) Taken in total...My curiosity is raised by the fact that it would be much simpler to just grant observers the access they are supposed to have and simply start counting...why would you complicate the process unnecessarily, thereby causing more work for yourself?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on February 07, 2021, 03:02:56 PM
Gateway Pundit has released some interesting video of that night which resulted in their getting kicked off twitter.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 08, 2021, 12:00:20 PM
Four years ago people went ballistic crazy over Donald Trump being president. They rioted and burned. But, lo and behold, all the charges were dropped: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/government-drops-charges-against-all-inauguration-protesters-n889531

Meanwhile, the 1/6 culprits get the book thrown at them: https://amgreatness.com/2021/02/04/americas-political-prisoners-first/

Two sets of rules, it seems. But some of you are okay with that.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: shuddemell on February 08, 2021, 02:41:17 PM
Four years ago people went ballistic crazy over Donald Trump being president. They rioted and burned. But, lo and behold, all the charges were dropped: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/government-drops-charges-against-all-inauguration-protesters-n889531

Meanwhile, the 1/6 culprits get the book thrown at them: https://amgreatness.com/2021/02/04/americas-political-prisoners-first/

Two sets of rules, it seems. But some of you are okay with that.

It's not like they are above rigging the game.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Daztur on February 08, 2021, 05:17:18 PM
Four years ago people went ballistic crazy over Donald Trump being president. They rioted and burned. But, lo and behold, all the charges were dropped: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/government-drops-charges-against-all-inauguration-protesters-n889531

Meanwhile, the 1/6 culprits get the book thrown at them: https://amgreatness.com/2021/02/04/americas-political-prisoners-first/

Two sets of rules, it seems. But some of you are okay with that.

Also, for some strange reason it is harder to convict people who cover their faces with masks while committing crimes compared to people who livestream themselves committing felonies.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 09, 2021, 10:32:11 AM
Oops.

https://justthenews.com/government/courts-law/mon-growing-evidence-capitol-attack-pre-planned-undercuts-trump-impeachment

You can't have it both ways. You can't insist Trump spontaneously triggered a riot if you've got two hundred fucking people preplanning shit on social media.

Of course, this won't stop the TDS-driven insanity.

(On a sidenote, that is the most hilariously bad opsec I've ever seen. Might as well have taken out billboards advertising 'hey, we're gonna storm the capitol'. Even the Area 51 'raid' had more brains than this.)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on February 09, 2021, 11:41:38 AM
moonsweeper -

Regarding election procedure, I think we might be talking past each other to a degree.

Going around to the big picture -- In general, I think that elections in the U.S. are sloppily run, and have been for decades. I've been aware of it since the 2000 election. However, neither party has shown any mainstream interest in reforming election procedure, and even when they have had the opportunity, they have not passed election reform. There is the For the People Act that was proposed in 2019 by some Democrats, but it had no chance of passing. For decades, the only people I saw complaining about details of election procedure like electronic voting machines have been liberal activists -- usually complaining about how procedures make things unequal for poor people and/or urban minorities.

In the 2000 election, suddenly that reversed. Trump supporters suddenly looked at the details of voting -- and were shocked to find, for example, how Republican administrations had been installing voting machines for decades. Many people seemed to believe that ballots were secured like bank vaults -- with top-of-the-line security and airtight procedure. Instead, it's often a bunch of geriatric volunteers walking the ballots around and counting them up like something out of The Office. That's been true across the tens of thousands of local polling centers since forever - it's not a shocking new development in 2020.

In general, I approve of reforming election procedure. It'll cost a little more money, but we should have some more thorough checks on things and security, to ensure that everyone's vote counts. Some liberals have shown bias defending election procedure in the case of Trump while criticizing it in previous years -- but the same is definitely true in reverse, where conservatives who had no problem with election procedures in 2016 turned around and started complaining.

---------------

I think the elephant in the room, though, is the enormous number of bogus claims in the 2020 election. You question about why I have brought up multiple times the false claim about the suitcases in State Farm Arena. That's because it was broadcast on multiple mainstream news channels, shared hugely across social media, and promoted by the President's own lawyers. Tons of people were sucked in by that story - so I think it's important to address it.


Bolded directly contradicts the affidavit, which says that people were told to leave and come back at 8:30 AM...

about the ABC Tweet...so ABC lied when they said Waller told them counting ceased at 10:30 or else Waller lied to ABC about the announcement to stop and go home (since she was present at the location when the announcement was made she should know)...pick one

No, I don't have to. Your assumption here is that no one ever makes a mistake or miscommunicates - there's only intentional lying. But in actuality, miscommunication happens all the time. Twitter posts are frequently wrong - not because of criminal conspiracy to lie, but because people post what they think they hear without checking. Just look at any conversation here on this forum, and there's tons of people talking past each other.

Have you ever sat on a jury? In virtually any court case, people's stories about a given event never line up. They'll tell different accounts of the same events -- even witnesses on the same side of a court case.

In this case, the procedure should be that the hours of processing are clearly posted. The observers shouldn't have to infer when work is based on an overheard command as they did. But given that they did leave based on an overheard command, I think miscommunication is clearly possible.


Taken in total...My curiosity is raised by the fact that it would be much simpler to just grant observers the access they are supposed to have and simply start counting...why would you complicate the process unnecessarily, thereby causing more work for yourself?

You're talking about where they were positioned here? For a secret and secure vote tally, the observers need to be in a place where they can see what is going on in general, but not so close that they can read the votes or interfere with the process. I suspect most places prefer for them to be behind a window or such, rather than have security keep them inside a roped-off area. Exactly where they need to be isn't perfectly defined - it's a judgement call. And again, this is something done by people working for a small stipend with little training across tens of thousands of polling places each with their own setup -- trying to conform to hundreds of detailed election laws that vary from location to location. They're almost all well-intentioned and trying their best, but I'm sure that no one gets it all right.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on February 09, 2021, 08:59:27 PM
So it looks like the death of Officer Brian Sicknick had nothing to do with being hit on the head with a fire extinguisher during the mostly peaceful marching and selfie opportunity at the Capitol.

https://amgreatness.com/2021/02/08/what-happened-to-officer-brian-sicknick/ (https://amgreatness.com/2021/02/08/what-happened-to-officer-brian-sicknick/)

After all the hang wringing, it turns out that it was a big rawma.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on February 09, 2021, 09:19:51 PM
^ url is correct, but the link's broken. For some reason it picked up an ftp wrapper.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on February 09, 2021, 09:48:57 PM
^ url is correct, but the link's broken. For some reason it picked up an ftp wrapper.

Computering is hard.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on February 10, 2021, 07:45:36 AM
https://www.campusreform.org/article?id=16784

Didn't get any press, but about two weeks ago Biden rescinded one of Trump's executive orders that required universities to report any contracts they make with China's Confucius Institutes, like picking professors in exchange for donations. Given the number of professors who have been arrested for spying for China, especially around things like intellectual property, and how central the Confucius Institutes have been to the whole process, this sounds like a terrible idea.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/bidens-order-could-let-china-control-u-s-electric-grid
https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-seizure-of-chinese-built-transformer-raises-specter-of-closer-scrutiny-11590598710

Biden also suspended for 90 days a Trump executive order that prohibited electrical companies from using equipment controlled by foreign countries. Given it was just last year that they discovered a 250 ton transformer that had backdoors designed into it that might have allowed China to remotely control parts of the grid, that also sounds like a terrible idea

https://www.newsweek.com/china-warn-biden-flex-muscles-double-aircraft-carrier-1567963

Though Biden is still having the Navy engage in training exercises in the South China Sea, which is provoking China.

Entertainingly, the rear admiral in charge of one of the two carrier strike groups is James Kirk.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 10, 2021, 08:13:48 AM
https://www.campusreform.org/article?id=16784

Didn't get any press, but about two weeks ago Biden rescinded one of Trump's executive orders that required universities to report any contracts they make with China's Confucius Institutes, like picking professors in exchange for donations. Given the number of professors who have been arrested for spying for China, especially around things like intellectual property, and how central the Confucius Institutes have been to the whole process, this sounds like a terrible idea.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/bidens-order-could-let-china-control-u-s-electric-grid
https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-seizure-of-chinese-built-transformer-raises-specter-of-closer-scrutiny-11590598710

Biden also suspended for 90 days a Trump executive order that prohibited electrical companies from using equipment controlled by foreign countries. Given it was just last year that they discovered a 250 ton transformer that had backdoors designed into it that might have allowed China to remotely control parts of the grid, that also sounds like a terrible idea

https://www.newsweek.com/china-warn-biden-flex-muscles-double-aircraft-carrier-1567963

Though Biden is still having the Navy engage in training exercises in the South China Sea, which is provoking China.

Entertainingly, the rear admiral in charge of one of the two carrier strike groups is James Kirk.
It's only a terrible idea if you're not already in Beijing's pocket.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on February 10, 2021, 12:39:33 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/09/world/europe/france-threat-american-universities.html

Quote from: NYT
PARIS — The threat is said to be existential. It fuels secessionism. Gnaws at national unity. Abets Islamism. Attacks France’s intellectual and cultural heritage.

The threat? “Certain social science theories entirely imported from the United States,’’ said President Emmanuel Macron.

French politicians, high-profile intellectuals and journalists are warning that progressive American ideas — specifically on race, gender, post-colonialism — are undermining their society. “There’s a battle to wage against an intellectual matrix from American universities,’’ warned Mr. Macron’s education minister.

Emboldened by these comments, prominent intellectuals have banded together against what they regard as contamination by the out-of-control woke leftism of American campuses and its attendant cancel culture.
Ironic because France is very leftist, and doubly so because a lot of those ideas came from French intellectuals.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on February 10, 2021, 03:56:18 PM
I honestly cannot see how people are able to watch this video and not at least pause in their Trump-defensive rhetoric.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9245443/Watch-14-minute-video-Democrats-say-proves-Donald-Trump-convicted.html#v-1976645071595157194
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on February 10, 2021, 04:35:47 PM
https://nypost.com/2021/02/09/columnist-virginia-heffernan-blasted-for-comparing-neighbors-to-nazi-sympathizers/

Virginia Heffernan is a reporter for the LA Times who lives in upstate New York, where she has the misfortune to live next door to literal terrorists. You won't believe what her neighbors did -- during a recent massive snow storm, they plowed her driveway without even asking. Even worse, they did a great job. Virginia rightfully compared them to Hezbollah, and to Nazi sympathizers. How can the government let horrors like this happen? People shouldn't be allowed to be nice to each. There should be a law!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on February 10, 2021, 04:36:27 PM
I honestly cannot see how people are able to watch this video and not at least pause in their Trump-defensive rhetoric.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9245443/Watch-14-minute-video-Democrats-say-proves-Donald-Trump-convicted.html#v-1976645071595157194

Not for a second.

They edited a video to put the situation in the most unfavorable interpretation against Trump. I'm surprised they didn't set it to some dramatic music, and put in some of those Inception Horns.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on February 10, 2021, 05:14:39 PM
If everyone was at Dealy Plaza that day, or watched it live, the zapruder film would have been largely irrelevant to the formation of opinion after-the-fact
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on February 10, 2021, 08:24:00 PM
...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Elfdart on February 10, 2021, 08:43:51 PM
It's no longer about equality, it's about equity.



In Biden's America, the color of your skin is more important than the content of your character. And at this point, I don't think they'd disagree.

This is awfully rich, coming from the same Susan Rice who led one of the most violent and vicious racist campaigns in recent history. In order to justify NATO's attack on Libya, Rice made the claim that Ghadaffi was recruiting black mercenaries from Chad to terrorize innocent people. As an inducement to commit rape, so the story goes, each recruit was supplied with Viagra. It's like she ripped off D.W. Griffith's Birth of a Nation and embellished it.

LINK (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/amnesty-questions-claim-gaddafi-ordered-rape-weapon-war-2302037.html)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Kyle Aaron on February 10, 2021, 10:55:04 PM
If they'd played D&D they would know you should never split the party!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-party-exclusive/exclusive-dozens-of-former-republican-officials-in-talks-to-form-anti-trump-third-party-idUSKBN2AB07P
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on February 10, 2021, 11:29:27 PM
It's no longer about equality, it's about equity.



In Biden's America, the color of your skin is more important than the content of your character. And at this point, I don't think they'd disagree.

This is awfully rich, coming from the same Susan Rice who led one of the most violent and vicious racist campaigns in recent history. In order to justify NATO's attack on Libya, Rice made the claim that Ghadaffi was recruiting black mercenaries from Chad to terrorize innocent people. As an inducement to commit rape, so the story goes, each recruit was supplied with Viagra. It's like she ripped off D.W. Griffith's Birth of a Nation and embellished it.

LINK (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/amnesty-questions-claim-gaddafi-ordered-rape-weapon-war-2302037.html)

Shhh! You're not allowed to say anything bad about Susan Rice or you are a racist...or sexist...or some type of -ist.

If they'd played D&D they would know you should never split the party!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-party-exclusive/exclusive-dozens-of-former-republican-officials-in-talks-to-form-anti-trump-third-party-idUSKBN2AB07P

I read the article...I'm not sure why they are trying to rename themselves.  I thought "Neocon Warmongers" always worked pretty well...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on February 11, 2021, 01:48:30 AM
If they'd played D&D they would know you should never split the party!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-party-exclusive/exclusive-dozens-of-former-republican-officials-in-talks-to-form-anti-trump-third-party-idUSKBN2AB07P

Please dear lord let this article be true. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Melan on February 11, 2021, 03:25:36 AM
If they'd played D&D they would know you should never split the party!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-party-exclusive/exclusive-dozens-of-former-republican-officials-in-talks-to-form-anti-trump-third-party-idUSKBN2AB07P
I can well imagine Trump crying crocodile tears over this. "Oh, please don't go! Please, not the party splitting... .....suckers."

Very much doubt it, though. To win in the US (and outside the US), you need serious infrastructure and networks, and while in seriously bad shape, the Republican Party still has some of that stuff. Putting it in adventuring terms, one of your party members just croaked down on the ninth level, and he was carrying the +3 sword, the gauntlets of ogre power, and the gem of seeing. Who gets to rifle the corpse - Johnny Lawgood, 5th level Paladin, or Sinistro, 6th level half-orc Assassin - will be decisive in both survival and the future direction of the campaign.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 11, 2021, 08:28:13 AM
I honestly cannot see how people are able to watch this video and not at least pause in their Trump-defensive rhetoric.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9245443/Watch-14-minute-video-Democrats-say-proves-Donald-Trump-convicted.html#v-1976645071595157194
This would be the video that specifically edited out Trump requesting peaceful protests.

Meanwhile, Raskin was just forced to withdraw evidence involving Mike Lee, and Eric 'Me Love Chinese Spygirls' Swalwell got caught using a photoshopped Tweet.

Good God, what a fucking farce.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: shuddemell on February 11, 2021, 11:20:46 AM
More and more sketchy info coming out....

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/02/huge-development-hand-recount-finds-dominion-voting-machines-shorted-every-republican-windham-new-hampshire-300-votes/
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on February 11, 2021, 02:25:47 PM
More and more sketchy info coming out....

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/02/huge-development-hand-recount-finds-dominion-voting-machines-shorted-every-republican-windham-new-hampshire-300-votes/

But you can't prove organized, widespread, top down voter fraud! *Quack! Quack! Quack!*
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on February 11, 2021, 03:23:45 PM
I honestly cannot see how people are able to watch this video and not at least pause in their Trump-defensive rhetoric.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9245443/Watch-14-minute-video-Democrats-say-proves-Donald-Trump-convicted.html#v-1976645071595157194
This would be the video that specifically edited out Trump requesting peaceful protests.

Meanwhile, Raskin was just forced to withdraw evidence involving Mike Lee, and Eric 'Me Love Chinese Spygirls' Swalwell got caught using a photoshopped Tweet.

Good God, what a fucking farce.

No, it did not. In fact it includes his full "peaceful" plea, which anyone would know if they had watched it. Which you just demonstrated you did not. Farce indeed.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on February 11, 2021, 04:14:12 PM
You know what’s not a farce?  Bushie GOP is completely mystified that internal polling shows no drop in support for Trump by Trump voters.  Womp womp

Meanwhile the cathedral press is currently dumping the Lincoln Project overboard with a drip-drip expose on pedo leadership

LP: “this is horrible and the LP completely disavows this Co-founder.  But this is the first we’re hearing about it!”

AP Narrator: “and yet it turned out there were high level discussions in LP about how to handle this issue in Summer 2020 and nothing was done”

LP: ....
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on February 11, 2021, 05:45:47 PM
More and more sketchy info coming out....

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/02/huge-development-hand-recount-finds-dominion-voting-machines-shorted-every-republican-windham-new-hampshire-300-votes/

OK, so one recount in New Hampshire resulted in a change of nearly 300 Republican votes. The question is, how sketchy is this? For comparison, I'd suggest the recount in the 2000 presidential election in Florida. Below is a map of the differences in votes in each county upon recount:

(https://gislounge.com/images/changegore.jpg)
Source: https://www.gislounge.com/campaign-2000-the-recount/

That's four counties where the recount resulted in over 200 more votes for Gore, and almost all the counties had some change. I don't think that this inherently implies fraud, though. It seems to me pretty common for some counties to have some human error that messes up the vote. Almost no counties had no change in the map above. There are lots of recounts every year, and from what I can see, every one of them results in significant differences on a county-by-county level. The link below only includes notable recounts, but there are lots more if you include minor state and local level elections.

https://ballotpedia.org/Noteworthy_recounts_in_the_United_States

Based on this, I don't think there is any reason to claim that recount differences imply fraud programmed into voting machines.

Further, this isn't even about Dominion. From your own link:

Quote
In New Hampshire, he noted, the AccuVote optical scanners used in all communities that have voting machines are an “older technology” and each moderator uses the device’s results tape, at the end of the night, to reveal the results, on a paper “Return of Votes” form. AccuVote devices have been used for more than a quarter of a century in the state and are the only devices approved by the Ballot Law Commission.

“The device was originally manufactured by Unisys, then by Global Elections Systems Inc., which are no longer in business,” Yen said. “The device used in New Hampshire is no longer being manufactured. Dominion (Voting Systems) owns the intellectual property of the AccuVote and its related election management system but does not manufacture the device.”

So the devices were manufactured and purchased by New Hampshire before Dominion had any relation to it.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on February 11, 2021, 07:37:15 PM
This story about several repubs in one area whose votes all were wrong by almost the same number is debunked because it’s comparative to that time in Florida where 1 candidate had his votes change in significantly varying amounts between-50 and +1,000 across all the counties in the state.

Also, trust your scientists because their advanced degrees mean they know how to evaluate the data into summaries you can depend on
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on February 11, 2021, 10:31:28 PM
This story about several repubs in one area whose votes all were wrong by almost the same number is debunked because it’s comparative to that time in Florida where 1 candidate had his votes change in significantly varying amounts between-50 and +1,000 across all the counties in the state.

Also, trust your scientists because their advanced degrees mean they know how to evaluate the data into summaries you can depend on

Hell, EOTB.  You're missing out on the best part, which the article didn't even address.

Look at the actual counts.

All 4 have the R under-counted by ~300 votes (297, 298, 299, 303)
3 of them have the D under-counted by ~23 votes (18, 21, 28)

So the difference between the 2 parties is R was under-counted by an order of magnitude more than the D...
That seems kind of odd for a 'random generic error'....

Then we have the one outlier.
1 D was over-counted by ~100 votes (99)

Hmm...What can we take away from this?

Actual total votes were off by 1165 votes.
Of those miscount votes only 67 favored R (5.8%) while the other 1098 (94.2%) favored D...

Isn't it also interesting that the sole over-count that happened occurred for D...and happened in the only contest that was actually remotely competitive? (R 52.3% vs D 47.7% final result after correction of a 4.3% count error)

Nothing to see here, Citizen. Move along, please.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on February 11, 2021, 10:55:04 PM
More evidence that the only violence at the most peaceful Capitol walking tour was due to police brutality...again

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1359558869291302914.html (https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1359558869291302914.html)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: EOTB on February 11, 2021, 10:59:09 PM
Nothing to see here, Citizen. Move along, please.

That's going to be the mantra.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: shuddemell on February 12, 2021, 10:02:46 AM
More and more sketchy info coming out....

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/02/huge-development-hand-recount-finds-dominion-voting-machines-shorted-every-republican-windham-new-hampshire-300-votes/

OK, so one recount in New Hampshire resulted in a change of nearly 300 Republican votes. The question is, how sketchy is this? For comparison, I'd suggest the recount in the 2000 presidential election in Florida. Below is a map of the differences in votes in each county upon recount:

(https://gislounge.com/images/changegore.jpg)
Source: https://www.gislounge.com/campaign-2000-the-recount/

That's four counties where the recount resulted in over 200 more votes for Gore, and almost all the counties had some change. I don't think that this inherently implies fraud, though. It seems to me pretty common for some counties to have some human error that messes up the vote. Almost no counties had no change in the map above. There are lots of recounts every year, and from what I can see, every one of them results in significant differences on a county-by-county level. The link below only includes notable recounts, but there are lots more if you include minor state and local level elections.

https://ballotpedia.org/Noteworthy_recounts_in_the_United_States

Based on this, I don't think there is any reason to claim that recount differences imply fraud programmed into voting machines.

Further, this isn't even about Dominion. From your own link:

Quote
In New Hampshire, he noted, the AccuVote optical scanners used in all communities that have voting machines are an “older technology” and each moderator uses the device’s results tape, at the end of the night, to reveal the results, on a paper “Return of Votes” form. AccuVote devices have been used for more than a quarter of a century in the state and are the only devices approved by the Ballot Law Commission.

“The device was originally manufactured by Unisys, then by Global Elections Systems Inc., which are no longer in business,” Yen said. “The device used in New Hampshire is no longer being manufactured. Dominion (Voting Systems) owns the intellectual property of the AccuVote and its related election management system but does not manufacture the device.”

So the devices were manufactured and purchased by New Hampshire before Dominion had any relation to it.

It's the unidirectional nature and the differential between how much D votes changed versus R votes. Statistically it's a bit sketchy to me, and who said anything about Dominion? I certainly didn't.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on February 12, 2021, 12:28:40 PM
More and more sketchy info coming out....

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/02/huge-development-hand-recount-finds-dominion-voting-machines-shorted-every-republican-windham-new-hampshire-300-votes/

OK, so one recount in New Hampshire resulted in a change of nearly 300 Republican votes. The question is, how sketchy is this? For comparison, I'd suggest the recount in the 2000 presidential election in Florida. Below is a map of the differences in votes in each county upon recount:

(https://gislounge.com/images/changegore.jpg)
Source: https://www.gislounge.com/campaign-2000-the-recount/
...
Further, this isn't even about Dominion.

It's the unidirectional nature and the differential between how much D votes changed versus R votes. Statistically it's a bit sketchy to me, and who said anything about Dominion? I certainly didn't.

The article you linked has the headline "Hand Recount Finds Dominion Owned Voting Machines Shorted EVERY REPUBLICAN Candidate". That phrasing explicitly claims that the Dominion-owned voting machines are responsible for the discrepancy.

As for the statistical significance: It seems to me highly likely that this was not just a randomly chosen county. Rather, I suspect that people have pored over the hundreds of recounts in the 2020 General Election, and this one was selectively reported on because it was an outlier. As noted in the 2000 map of Florida - usually recounts are off by a little, but every so often there is a screw-up in either one of the counts where there is a discrepancy of hundreds. For example, here is the results for Hall County in Georgia in 2020, which I found by search:

https://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/politics/latest-twist-recount-finished-its-tally-wont-be-officially-certified/

The recount resulted in 76 additional votes for Trump, 30 additional votes for Biden, and 14 additional votes for Jorgensen -- for a total of 120 additional votes. That's a mild outlier, I think - the reason it came up on my Google search for recounts is because the discrepancy was widely linked and noted. The biggest discrepancy in 2020 that I know of was 2600 votes in Floyd County Georgia:

Quote
A recount in Georgia’s presidential race found more than 2,600 ballots in Floyd County that hadn’t originally been tallied, likely helping President Donald Trump reduce his 14,000-vote deficit to Joe Biden.

Trump could gain nearly 800 net votes from the discovered ballots. There were 1,643 new votes for Trump and 865 for Biden.

The problem occurred because county election officials didn’t upload votes from a memory card in an ballot scanning machine, said Gabriel Sterling, the state’s voting system manager.

He called it “an amazing blunder” and said the county’s elections director should resign.

“It’s not an equipment issue. It’s a person not executing their job properly,” Sterling said. This is the kind of situation that requires a change at the top of their management side."
Source: https://www.ajc.com/politics/georgia-recount-uncovers-2600-new-votes-in-presidential-race/I75NSPYYGNF43HQZBPYKJWJ5MA/

But these are both outliers. For example, in North Carolina there was a 2020 recount for the State Supreme Court vote, and the biggest discrepancy among any counties was 22.
Source: https://www.ncsbe.gov/2020-statewide-recount-results

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: shuddemell on February 12, 2021, 01:29:55 PM
More and more sketchy info coming out....

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/02/huge-development-hand-recount-finds-dominion-voting-machines-shorted-every-republican-windham-new-hampshire-300-votes/

OK, so one recount in New Hampshire resulted in a change of nearly 300 Republican votes. The question is, how sketchy is this? For comparison, I'd suggest the recount in the 2000 presidential election in Florida. Below is a map of the differences in votes in each county upon recount:

(https://gislounge.com/images/changegore.jpg)
Source: https://www.gislounge.com/campaign-2000-the-recount/
...
Further, this isn't even about Dominion.

It's the unidirectional nature and the differential between how much D votes changed versus R votes. Statistically it's a bit sketchy to me, and who said anything about Dominion? I certainly didn't.

The article you linked has the headline "Hand Recount Finds Dominion Owned Voting Machines Shorted EVERY REPUBLICAN Candidate". That phrasing explicitly claims that the Dominion-owned voting machines are responsible for the discrepancy.

As for the statistical significance: It seems to me highly likely that this was not just a randomly chosen county. Rather, I suspect that people have pored over the hundreds of recounts in the 2020 General Election, and this one was selectively reported on because it was an outlier. As noted in the 2000 map of Florida - usually recounts are off by a little, but every so often there is a screw-up in either one of the counts where there is a discrepancy of hundreds. For example, here is the results for Hall County in Georgia in 2020, which I found by search:

https://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/politics/latest-twist-recount-finished-its-tally-wont-be-officially-certified/

The recount resulted in 76 additional votes for Trump, 30 additional votes for Biden, and 14 additional votes for Jorgensen -- for a total of 120 additional votes. That's a mild outlier, I think - the reason it came up on my Google search for recounts is because the discrepancy was widely linked and noted. The biggest discrepancy in 2020 that I know of was 2600 votes in Floyd County Georgia:

Quote
A recount in Georgia’s presidential race found more than 2,600 ballots in Floyd County that hadn’t originally been tallied, likely helping President Donald Trump reduce his 14,000-vote deficit to Joe Biden.

Trump could gain nearly 800 net votes from the discovered ballots. There were 1,643 new votes for Trump and 865 for Biden.

The problem occurred because county election officials didn’t upload votes from a memory card in an ballot scanning machine, said Gabriel Sterling, the state’s voting system manager.

He called it “an amazing blunder” and said the county’s elections director should resign.

“It’s not an equipment issue. It’s a person not executing their job properly,” Sterling said. This is the kind of situation that requires a change at the top of their management side."
Source: https://www.ajc.com/politics/georgia-recount-uncovers-2600-new-votes-in-presidential-race/I75NSPYYGNF43HQZBPYKJWJ5MA/

But these are both outliers. For example, in North Carolina there was a 2020 recount for the State Supreme Court vote, and the biggest discrepancy among any counties was 22.
Source: https://www.ncsbe.gov/2020-statewide-recount-results

Could be outliers, but that would be speculation on your part ("seems to me to be highly likely.."), which has little probity until further information is available. And yes, the intellectual property is owned by Dominion, but that specifically wasn't the point I was making. Seems awfully strange that such an unusual election has such a large number of widespread anomalies, which in and of itself is statistically highly unlikely. ymmv I am curious, for you, how many of these statistically unlikely events are required to convince you something is afoot, or do you require a confession from Biden or his team... wait he actually already made a preemptive confession...
"We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics," Biden said in the video.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on February 12, 2021, 04:46:31 PM
Could be outliers, but that would be speculation on your part ("seems to me to be highly likely.."), which has little probity until further information is available. And yes, the intellectual property is owned by Dominion, but that specifically wasn't the point I was making. Seems awfully strange that such an unusual election has such a large number of widespread anomalies, which in and of itself is statistically highly unlikely. ymmv I am curious, for you, how many of these statistically unlikely events are required to convince you something is afoot, or do you require a confession from Biden or his team...

I agree that it is speculation on my part without further information, but you presented far less information than I did. So, here's what I can find with a little further digging.

I previously showed the spread across Florida in the 2000 recount, where four counties had over +200 votes for Gore, and none with more the +73 for Bush.

Here is the full breakdown of the hand recount in Georgia 2020:

https://sos.ga.gov/index.php/elections/historic_first_statewide_audit_of_paper_ballots_upholds_result_of_presidential_race

The biggest shifts favoring Biden were in Cobb and Dekalb counties (+560 and +315). The biggest shifts favoring Trump were in Fulton and Gwinnett counties (+345 and +285). Still, most counties had a recount difference of less than 20, and these were the outliers.

For another comparison, here is the breakdown of the 2008 recount in Minnesota for U.S. Senate, where Al Franken won after recount.

https://web.archive.org/web/20090121144412/http://www.sos.state.mn.us/docs/recount_summary_with_ab.pdf

The biggest shifts favoring Franken were in Hennepin and Ramsey counties (+150 and +81). The biggest shifts favoring his opponent Coleman were in Becker and Wright counties (+21 and +9).

So these are three full recounts - not randomly chosen, but their information was easier to search for because they made a lot of news.

The claim is that the one recount with +300 for Republicans in New Hampshire is suspicious, but based on my sampling, I see that a number of county-level recounts have generated near or greater discrepancies than this. I suspect that in a mathematical analysis, these errors aren't truly random in the sense of a mathematically smooth distribution. They are most likely human error, which can have all sorts of systematic biases.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Brad on February 12, 2021, 08:16:38 PM
Oh so I see 2000 Florida is a thing again? Don’t worry, Comrade Kim, Bush was a bigger deep state asset than Gore could have ever been.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: shuddemell on February 12, 2021, 08:25:37 PM
And, could not the systemic bias by humans be ideologically motivated, perhaps? If so, that casts suspicion on the whole process. Your analysis is good and well presented, though you don't address the one sided nature of the shift, but it definitely is food for thought.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Trond on February 12, 2021, 10:50:01 PM
Something a bit interesting happened in the mainstream media today. Many of them, because they wanted to show the full impeachment proceedings live, were showing videos or tape clips that they had unfairly edited before (and played numerous times). I listen to KPCC radio quite often, despite very often disagreeing with them (or because of it?), and it was remarkable to hear the defense present Trump's quotes in context, including the defense interpretation. Apparently many pointed out this with CNN as well. It was almost weird to see any kind of defense of Trump on those channels, even if not accepted as such by the media.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on February 13, 2021, 01:05:59 AM
I previously showed the spread across Florida in the 2000 recount, where four counties had over +200 votes for Gore, and none with more the +73 for Bush.
...
The biggest shifts favoring Biden were in Cobb and Dekalb counties (+560 and +315). The biggest shifts favoring Trump were in Fulton and Gwinnett counties (+345 and +285).
...
The biggest shifts favoring Franken were in Hennepin and Ramsey counties (+150 and +81). The biggest shifts favoring his opponent Coleman were in Becker and Wright counties (+21 and +9).
The claim is that the one recount with +300 for Republicans in New Hampshire is suspicious, but based on my sampling, I see that a number of county-level recounts have generated near or greater discrepancies than this. I suspect that in a mathematical analysis, these errors aren't truly random in the sense of a mathematically smooth distribution. They are most likely human error, which can have all sorts of systematic biases.
And, could not the systemic bias by humans be ideologically motivated, perhaps? If so, that casts suspicion on the whole process. Your analysis is good and well presented, though you don't address the one sided nature of the shift, but it definitely is food for thought.

I think there could be some ideological bias in these human counting errors - and these would presumably effect hand counts the most. The question is, how big of an effect is that?

No election is perfect. There's always potential for some fraud, some bias, and some error. The key question is how much of it is there. In modern U.S., there are a dozen or so cases of criminal fraud prosecuted every election, and probably at least a few dozen more who get away with it. It doesn't seem to me that there's any clear pattern to the recount shifts, but there could be some fraction of recount errors that are ideological bias. But recounts usually shift things 0.05% or less overall.

For what it's worth, in Minnesota 2008, the outlying count changes did go in the direction of the county -- i.e. the two biggest shifts for Franken were Democratic counties, and the two biggest for Coleman were Republican. But in Georgia 2020, the counties that shifted most towards Trump were Democratic counties, but conversely the ones that shifted most towards Biden were also Democratic. I'm sure an actual statistical study of this by someone who puts real time into it could come up with a bunch more, but they wouldn't be headline-grabbing, outrage-generating clickbait. It would just be boring-sounding political science.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 13, 2021, 11:20:47 AM
Something a bit interesting happened in the mainstream media today. Many of them, because they wanted to show the full impeachment proceedings live, were showing videos or tape clips that they had unfairly edited before (and played numerous times). I listen to KPCC radio quite often, despite very often disagreeing with them (or because of it?), and it was remarkable to hear the defense present Trump's quotes in context, including the defense interpretation. Apparently many pointed out this with CNN as well. It was almost weird to see any kind of defense of Trump on those channels, even if not accepted as such by the media.
Could be because they know they're treading on very thin ice with this impeachment.

I mean, we could always impeach Barack Obama and Eric Holder for their roles in the 'Fast and Furious' debacle.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on February 13, 2021, 05:22:16 PM
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-acquitted-impeachment-trial-7-gop-senators-vote-democrats-convict-n1257876

The Dems and establishment Repubs have shot themselves in the foot again.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Brad on February 13, 2021, 07:34:02 PM
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-acquitted-impeachment-trial-7-gop-senators-vote-democrats-convict-n1257876

The Dems and establishment Repubs have shot themselves in the foot again.

I’d still like to hear how this sham was remotely Constitution considering Roberts didn’t even preside over the hearings...right there in black and white. “But law scholars!” Yeah...illiterate fucktards who have fooled a great majority of people of all sorts of things like somehow random edicts spouted by minor tyrants have any sort of legitimacy. This is pure theatre meant to show us they DGAF what the law says, they’re going to do whatever they want.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on February 13, 2021, 10:12:44 PM
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-acquitted-impeachment-trial-7-gop-senators-vote-democrats-convict-n1257876

The Dems and establishment Repubs have shot themselves in the foot again.

I’d still like to hear how this sham was remotely Constitution considering Roberts didn’t even preside over the hearings...right there in black and white. “But law scholars!” Yeah...illiterate fucktards who have fooled a great majority of people of all sorts of things like somehow random edicts spouted by minor tyrants have any sort of legitimacy. This is pure theatre meant to show us they DGAF what the law says, they’re going to do whatever they want.

I'm waiting for the commentaires. I have no desire to wade through 32 whatever hours of impeachbull to get to the 'good' bits. But I hear there's some real juicy stuff.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: shuddemell on February 14, 2021, 08:31:42 AM
Interesting...

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/02/exclusive-three-300000-biden-vote-dumps-late-election-night-virginia-cannot-adequately-explained-tied-final-results/
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: shuddemell on February 14, 2021, 08:35:09 AM
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-acquitted-impeachment-trial-7-gop-senators-vote-democrats-convict-n1257876

The Dems and establishment Repubs have shot themselves in the foot again.

I’d still like to hear how this sham was remotely Constitution considering Roberts didn’t even preside over the hearings...right there in black and white. “But law scholars!” Yeah...illiterate fucktards who have fooled a great majority of people of all sorts of things like somehow random edicts spouted by minor tyrants have any sort of legitimacy. This is pure theatre meant to show us they DGAF what the law says, they’re going to do whatever they want.

I'm waiting for the commentaires. I have no desire to wade through 32 whatever hours of impeachbull to get to the 'good' bits. But I hear there's some real juicy stuff.

And this is the only thing that really matters....

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=trump+acquittal+speech+video&&view=detail&mid=E7CE20A800ECD6C77384E7CE20A800ECD6C77384&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dtrump%2Bacquittal%2Bspeech%2Bvideo%26FORM%3DVDRESM
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Brad on February 14, 2021, 08:57:56 AM
I'm waiting for the commentaires. I have no desire to wade through 32 whatever hours of impeachbull to get to the 'good' bits. But I hear there's some real juicy stuff.

Imagine accusing someone of committing the largest treasonous act in American history and not even bothering to have any witnesses testify. Or have any evidence at all.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on February 14, 2021, 10:28:00 AM
moonsweeper -

Regarding election procedure, I think we might be talking past each other to a degree.

Going around to the big picture -- In general, I think that elections in the U.S. are sloppily run, and have been for decades. I've been aware of it since the 2000 election. However, neither party has shown any mainstream interest in reforming election procedure, and even when they have had the opportunity, they have not passed election reform. There is the For the People Act that was proposed in 2019 by some Democrats, but it had no chance of passing. For decades, the only people I saw complaining about details of election procedure like electronic voting machines have been liberal activists -- usually complaining about how procedures make things unequal for poor people and/or urban minorities.

In the 2000 election, suddenly that reversed. Trump supporters suddenly looked at the details of voting -- and were shocked to find, for example, how Republican administrations had been installing voting machines for decades. Many people seemed to believe that ballots were secured like bank vaults -- with top-of-the-line security and airtight procedure. Instead, it's often a bunch of geriatric volunteers walking the ballots around and counting them up like something out of The Office. That's been true across the tens of thousands of local polling centers since forever - it's not a shocking new development in 2020.

In general, I approve of reforming election procedure. It'll cost a little more money, but we should have some more thorough checks on things and security, to ensure that everyone's vote counts. Some liberals have shown bias defending election procedure in the case of Trump while criticizing it in previous years -- but the same is definitely true in reverse, where conservatives who had no problem with election procedures in 2016 turned around and started complaining.

Interesting, I didn't realize that no one pushed for Voter ID before the 2020 election.  I must also be misremembering Trump appointing some dude named Kobach to look at stuff in the 2016 election.

Taken in total...My curiosity is raised by the fact that it would be much simpler to just grant observers the access they are supposed to have and simply start counting...why would you complicate the process unnecessarily, thereby causing more work for yourself?

You're talking about where they were positioned here? For a secret and secure vote tally, the observers need to be in a place where they can see what is going on in general, but not so close that they can read the votes or interfere with the process. I suspect most places prefer for them to be behind a window or such, rather than have security keep them inside a roped-off area. Exactly where they need to be isn't perfectly defined - it's a judgement call. And again, this is something done by people working for a small stipend with little training across tens of thousands of polling places each with their own setup -- trying to conform to hundreds of detailed election laws that vary from location to location. They're almost all well-intentioned and trying their best, but I'm sure that no one gets it all right.

I notice you used my closing comment, but conveniently left out my actual question...
1) Why were the observers not granted access to view the scanning machines?...if the machines are counting the votes that is part of the process to which they are to be given access.
Why could they not even 'see' the counting machines...'We have someone around the corner putting ballots that you can't see into tabulating machines that you also can't see.'  is not the same as 'We were worried you might see personal information.'...

...should we check the security footage to see if there was a location from which it would they could have seen ballots actually being taken out of boxes and put in tabulating machines...which would have been far enough away to not see privileged info...like say 15' or so...

Bolded directly contradicts the affidavit, which says that people were told to leave and come back at 8:30 AM...

about the ABC Tweet...so ABC lied when they said Waller told them counting ceased at 10:30 or else Waller lied to ABC about the announcement to stop and go home (since she was present at the location when the announcement was made she should know)...pick one

No, I don't have to. Your assumption here is that no one ever makes a mistake or miscommunicates - there's only intentional lying. But in actuality, miscommunication happens all the time. Twitter posts are frequently wrong - not because of criminal conspiracy to lie, but because people post what they think they hear without checking. Just look at any conversation here on this forum, and there's tons of people talking past each other.

Have you ever sat on a jury? In virtually any court case, people's stories about a given event never line up. They'll tell different accounts of the same events -- even witnesses on the same side of a court case.

In this case, the procedure should be that the hours of processing are clearly posted. The observers shouldn't have to infer when work is based on an overheard command as they did. But given that they did leave based on an overheard command, I think miscommunication is clearly possible.

Sad...didn't your professors teach you to be a little more careful in you research...you keep accidentally cutting out parts of my statement...

From your [jhkim's] article, emphasis mine

Quote
"I'll just address the timeline of that evening - the staff at State Farm that evening, they began letting certain people go, no announcement was ever made to leave, for anyone to leave.  Certain staff that were on the cutting stations, that were on the flattening stations, that were extracting from the inner envelopes, those staff left as work completed. I found out sometime, I think a little after10:30, that they were gonna cease operations and I told them not to do that... at about 11:15 they were fully scanning again, and once they were scanning Carter Jones, the State Election Board monitor, he told me 11:42 or 11:52 that he arrived. There were media in the room, external affairs representative there until approximately 11:15. The Secretary of States investigator arrived at 12:15, and they scanned until all the ballots they had available to scan were complete and then cleaned up the room.

Bolded directly contradicts the affidavit, which says that people were told to leave and come back at 8:30 AM...

about the ABC Tweet...so ABC lied when they said Waller told them counting ceased at 10:30 or else Waller lied to ABC about the announcement to stop and go home (since she was present at the location when the announcement was made she should know)...pick one
2) If they were still counting why did they send anyone away and have one of the remaining employees start sanitizing...according to the italicized portion above, their work was done...but wait...it wasn't done, because there were still more unopened ballots in the 'boxes' you seem so focused on.

See.  Doesn't my statement make a little more sense now?  You really shouldn't cut information from an article, that you provided as evidence, when it starts showing things you don't like.

...and now we have this...(emphasis mine)
I previously showed the spread across Florida in the 2000 recount, where four counties had over +200 votes for Gore, and none with more the +73 for Bush.
...
The biggest shifts favoring Biden were in Cobb and Dekalb counties (+560 and +315). The biggest shifts favoring Trump were in Fulton and Gwinnett counties (+345 and +285).
...
The biggest shifts favoring Franken were in Hennepin and Ramsey counties (+150 and +81). The biggest shifts favoring his opponent Coleman were in Becker and Wright counties (+21 and +9).
The claim is that the one recount with +300 for Republicans in New Hampshire is suspicious, but based on my sampling, I see that a number of county-level recounts have generated near or greater discrepancies than this. I suspect that in a mathematical analysis, these errors aren't truly random in the sense of a mathematically smooth distribution. They are most likely human error, which can have all sorts of systematic biases.
And, could not the systemic bias by humans be ideologically motivated, perhaps? If so, that casts suspicion on the whole process. Your analysis is good and well presented, though you don't address the one sided nature of the shift, but it definitely is food for thought.

I think there could be some ideological bias in these human counting errors - and these would presumably effect hand counts the most. The question is, how big of an effect is that?

No election is perfect. There's always potential for some fraud, some bias, and some error. The key question is how much of it is there.
In modern U.S., there are a dozen or so cases of criminal fraud prosecuted every election, and probably at least a few dozen more who get away with it. It doesn't seem to me that there's any clear pattern to the recount shifts, but there could be some fraction of recount errors that are ideological bias. But recounts usually shift things 0.05% or less overall.

For what it's worth, in Minnesota 2008, the outlying count changes did go in the direction of the county -- i.e. the two biggest shifts for Franken were Democratic counties, and the two biggest for Coleman were Republican. But in Georgia 2020, the counties that shifted most towards Trump were Democratic counties, but conversely the ones that shifted most towards Biden were also Democratic. I'm sure an actual statistical study of this by someone who puts real time into it could come up with a bunch more, but they wouldn't be headline-grabbing, outrage-generating clickbait. It would just be boring-sounding political science.

So now you accept intentional fraud...just that there was not enough to matter...  ::)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Brad on February 14, 2021, 11:12:39 AM
So now you accept intentional fraud...just that there was not enough to matter...  ::)

Comrade Kim fashions himself as an intellectual, but if actually read his posts they are simply Democrat talking points with a bunch of spurious reasoning added to make it seem plausible. He's even worse than the regular brainwashed sheep because he tries to rationalize this stupidity, all because it supports his political bias. SAD!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on February 14, 2021, 09:04:03 PM


Trump's clear to run again in 2024, if he so wishes, and the Dems and establishment Republicans look like hypocritical assholes, on NBC of all places.





Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Aglondir on February 15, 2021, 02:50:29 AM
More info on Officer Sicknick's death. Not hit with fire extinguisher, no blunt force trauma to head.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/new-york-times-quietly-updates-report-on-fire-extinguisher-striking-capitol-police-officer/ar-BB1dG92n
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Trond on February 15, 2021, 09:44:35 AM


Trump's clear to run again in 2024, if he so wishes, and the Dems and establishment Republicans look like hypocritical assholes, on NBC of all places.

I’d say please don’t, if only for the reason that a lot of people simply can’t handle his “style”. In a bizarre way, he actually has a similar, but worse, effect on people compared to Hillary Clinton, where people are willing to believe anything they’re told about them. To the left or right, respectively, Trump and Hillary are vampiric baby killers.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on February 16, 2021, 12:34:28 AM
Parler's back, though in a limited fashion.
https://www.npr.org/2021/02/15/968116346/after-weeks-of-being-off-line-parler-finds-a-new-web-host
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on February 19, 2021, 10:13:29 AM
Biden's gone from gaffes to outright lunacy, and we're only one month into his Presidency.



Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Brad on February 19, 2021, 10:40:46 AM
Biden's gone from gaffes to outright lunacy, and we're only one month into his Presidency.



Imagine voting for this guy unironically while simultaneously claiming Trump was mentally unfit for office...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 19, 2021, 11:00:52 AM
Imagine voting for this guy unironically while simultaneously claiming Trump was mentally unfit for office...
Remember they were unironically declaring how 'we voted a dictator out of office' after the election.

Setting aside the whole cheating question, you don't get to vote dictators out. That's kind of the point of being a dictator; you ensure the people can't remove you through peaceful transfer of power, usually by way of 'roll the tanks!'.

My guess is when Biden finally collapses into drooling idiocy, Harris will declare a national emergency and suspend elections 'for the duration'.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Brad on February 19, 2021, 12:11:44 PM
Remember they were unironically declaring how 'we voted a dictator out of office' after the election.

Setting aside the whole cheating question, you don't get to vote dictators out. That's kind of the point of being a dictator; you ensure the people can't remove you through peaceful transfer of power, usually by way of 'roll the tanks!'.

My guess is when Biden finally collapses into drooling idiocy, Harris will declare a national emergency and suspend elections 'for the duration'.

"Liberalism" is a mental disease. Maybe I should use Leftism instead.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Jaeger on February 24, 2021, 03:09:15 PM
Biden's gone from gaffes to outright lunacy, and we're only one month into his Presidency.
https://youtu.be/sNptiQnehoE
Imagine voting for this guy unironically while simultaneously claiming Trump was mentally unfit for office...

They all ignore this stuff - and many never see it, because MSM.


So now you accept intentional fraud...just that there was not enough to matter...  ::)

Comrade Kim fashions himself as an intellectual, but if actually read his posts they are simply Democrat talking points with a bunch of spurious reasoning added to make it seem plausible. He's even worse than the regular brainwashed sheep because he tries to rationalize this stupidity, all because it supports his political bias. SAD!

One thing I readily concede.

I was wrong when I said that Trump would triumph over the fraud and serve a second term.

Straight up called it wrong.

The rot is just too deep. From our politicians to our courts.

It's not that our system has been corrupted.

It is evident now that corruption is our system.

Eyes opened and lesson learned.

https://hereistheevidence.com/

If anyone says there were no election shenanigans, and that the MSM is truthful and honest, just send them the link.

And anyone who thinks we are going to vote our way out of this is delusional.

#Democracyisdead

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Slipshot762 on February 26, 2021, 03:53:35 PM
Let's cut the prevaricating about evidence of fraud or there not being enough if any is presented...the point is thus:
Election day was November 3rd. If you do not have it tallied by the close of the third then tough shit.
It has to be this way, otherwise both players can in theory manufacture mail-in ballots forever after, totally paralyzing everything.
This particular point is what is on the lips of us hillbillies when we talk about this; like miss your court day for a week and see what happens vs hey take your time and keep counting till you win.
The same government that will lock you up for not meeting a courts timetable or for being short on tax money is suddenly less punctual with it's own obligations and that is supposed to be acceptable...uh, no, up yours, I can no longer take government seriously if this is the case.
When did government become a petty vindictive gaggle of high-schoolers?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ThatChrisGuy on February 26, 2021, 03:56:10 PM
When did government become a petty vindictive gaggle of high-schoolers?

July 14, 1798.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on February 26, 2021, 04:28:18 PM
Let's cut the prevaricating about evidence of fraud or there not being enough if any is presented...the point is thus:
Election day was November 3rd. If you do not have it tallied by the close of the third then tough shit.
It has to be this way, otherwise both players can in theory manufacture mail-in ballots forever after, totally paralyzing everything.

This does nothing to prevent fraudulent ballots - since fraudulent ballots can be prepared before November 3rd.

What it does do is allow the government to throwing out thousands of ballots wherever it wants - by not allocating enough workers count them.

I'd say that if someone legitimately votes, then their vote should *always* be counted. The state should not be allowed to say "Whoops! We didn't get to you, so your vote goes in the trash."

There is a bunch of election reform I'd support - including allocating greater resources to finish counting on Nov 3rd. But the incentive to complete has to be something other than throwing out votes.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on February 26, 2021, 05:02:51 PM
It's kinda amazing that almost none of you even consider the possibility Trump actually lost.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on February 26, 2021, 06:56:26 PM
It's kinda amazing that almost none of you even consider the possibility Trump actually lost.

It's possible. It's possible Biden got more votes than Obama*, that all the irregularites and odd behavior are all innocent mistakes or misinterpretations.

* https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/dec/15/how-biden-managed-win-far-more-votes-2020-obama-di/

I just don't put much stock in it. There were a lot of people gunning for Trump from the day of his inaguration, who were desperate to paint him in the most negative light possible, who considered him literally "worse than Hitler". I think it's very possible people with that mindset wouldn't be afriad to get their hands a little dirty to "save the Country".
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: KingCheops on February 26, 2021, 10:38:09 PM
It's kinda amazing that almost none of you even consider the possibility Trump actually lost.

It's possible. It's possible Biden got more votes than Obama*, that all the irregularites and odd behavior are all innocent mistakes or misinterpretations.

* https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/dec/15/how-biden-managed-win-far-more-votes-2020-obama-di/

I just don't put much stock in it. There were a lot of people gunning for Trump from the day of his inaguration, who were desperate to paint him in the most negative light possible, who considered him literally "worse than Hitler". I think it's very possible people with that mindset wouldn't be afriad to get their hands a little dirty to "save the Country".

Time magazine literally ran an article explaining how a shadowy cabal of elites rigged...er sorry I mean "fortified"...the election to make sure Trump didn't win.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 27, 2021, 10:11:18 AM
It's kinda amazing that almost none of you even consider the possibility Trump actually lost.

It's possible. It's possible Biden got more votes than Obama*, that all the irregularites and odd behavior are all innocent mistakes or misinterpretations.

* https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/dec/15/how-biden-managed-win-far-more-votes-2020-obama-di/

I just don't put much stock in it. There were a lot of people gunning for Trump from the day of his inaguration, who were desperate to paint him in the most negative light possible, who considered him literally "worse than Hitler". I think it's very possible people with that mindset wouldn't be afriad to get their hands a little dirty to "save the Country".

Time magazine literally ran an article explaining how a shadowy cabal of elites rigged...er sorry I mean "fortified"...the election to make sure Trump didn't win.
Not even two months into his fraudulency and the Pederast in Chief is bombing Syria again.

Trump droned ONE goddamn asshole who was a state-supported terrorist mastermind and people lost their minds. Bidenharris starts bombing people in Syria again and it's 'meh, business as usual'.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Brad on February 27, 2021, 02:27:59 PM
The previous reality tv show was better; gas prices were low and the entertainment value high. This new one sucks and they keep recycling old episodes.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: KingCheops on February 28, 2021, 10:42:56 AM
It's kinda amazing that almost none of you even consider the possibility Trump actually lost.

It's possible. It's possible Biden got more votes than Obama*, that all the irregularites and odd behavior are all innocent mistakes or misinterpretations.

* https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/dec/15/how-biden-managed-win-far-more-votes-2020-obama-di/

I just don't put much stock in it. There were a lot of people gunning for Trump from the day of his inaguration, who were desperate to paint him in the most negative light possible, who considered him literally "worse than Hitler". I think it's very possible people with that mindset wouldn't be afriad to get their hands a little dirty to "save the Country".

Time magazine literally ran an article explaining how a shadowy cabal of elites rigged...er sorry I mean "fortified"...the election to make sure Trump didn't win.
Not even two months into his fraudulency and the Pederast in Chief is bombing Syria again.

Trump droned ONE goddamn asshole who was a state-supported terrorist mastermind and people lost their minds. Bidenharris starts bombing people in Syria again and it's 'meh, business as usual'.

All the fucking mudslimes at my work were telling the kafr and dhimmi that this was a horrible crime and the US should back off.  I then red pilled all these stupid "liberals" about how the mother fucker had ordered the machine gunning of Iranian citizens protesting gas prices just two weeks prior.  "Whoa! Really?" "Yes really read some news."  But, you know, Orange Man Bad.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Elfdart on February 28, 2021, 04:58:54 PM
You are right, he only collaborated. That's enough for me however, considering how cavalierly that term is used these days, I would say it is still on point, even if it isn't technically, exactly correct. Both are suspect on many levels.
No, he was taken around by a collaborator. Who seems to have saved lives, so it's not a clear cut case. But most importantly, Soros was 13 or 14. A child, without full agency. A child can't be held responsible for the actions of their parents and the other adults who helped raise them.

There are tons of reasons to criticize Soros, based on what he came to believe as an adult, and what he's done as an adult. Why not stick to the real ones?

Because those reasons don't give Holocaust "revisionists" and neo-Nazis material to jack off with.

Apparently, shuddemell is heartbroken that 13-year-old Soros didn't just turn himself in to be shipped off to Auschwitz. I mean, how dare he keep up the appearance of being a Hungarian official's godson to save himself* from the gas chamber?


* And the godfather's Jewish wife who, along with her husband, would have also been killed if Soros was found out by the Nazis.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Elfdart on February 28, 2021, 06:52:41 PM
Four years ago people went ballistic crazy over Donald Trump being president. They rioted and burned. But, lo and behold, all the charges were dropped: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/government-drops-charges-against-all-inauguration-protesters-n889531

Meanwhile, the 1/6 culprits get the book thrown at them: https://amgreatness.com/2021/02/04/americas-political-prisoners-first/

Two sets of rules, it seems. But some of you are okay with that.

How many people died in the January 2017 protests? Zero. Five people died in the Trump Putsch, including a police officer.  You think that might have something to do with the difference? Nah, it's got to be a plot by the DEEP STATE, right?

Of course the 2017 protestors were no doubt helped by the fact that they wore masks and the same outfits, while the 2021 fascists made it a point NOT to wear masks and posted selfies of themselves like they were holding a cattle call for America's Dumbest Criminals. It also helped that the defendants didn't start ratting each other out the minute they were collared:

Quote
Activists credited a unified defense strategy with prevailing. This strategy included persuading defendants — sometimes over the objections of their lawyers — not to accept plea bargains.

Trump's mob not only started squealing on one another when they knew they were in trouble, but now they're claiming Il Douchebag made them do it!

Oh, and if you're a prosecutor trying to peddle Project Veritas bullshit in court (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/jury-acquits-all-6-defendants-first-inauguration-protests-trial-n831956), you have no case and should try another line of work.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on February 28, 2021, 07:10:23 PM
How many people died in the January 2017 protests? Zero. Five people died in the Trump Putsch, including a police officer.  You think that might have something to do with the difference? Nah, it's got to be a plot by the DEEP STATE, right?

One person died in the Trump Freedom March - an unarmed woman shot by the Police.

Yet another example of police brutality towards white people.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 01, 2021, 08:45:59 AM
Elfdart is not very bright, as it seems people are rapidly walking back the 'Brian Sicknick died from the 1/6 peaceful protest' claim. Hell, even his family seems to not know what killed him.

NYT quietly retracted the original 'killed with a fire extinguisher' story.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Brad on March 01, 2021, 05:53:17 PM
https://foxsanantonio.com/news/local/four-people-including-justice-of-the-peace-arrested-on-150-counts-of-voter-fraud

No voter fraud->insignificant incidences of fraud->not widespread fraud->not enough to change the election

Guessing the next step is something like, "LOL SUCKERS!"
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on March 01, 2021, 07:38:21 PM
https://foxsanantonio.com/news/local/four-people-including-justice-of-the-peace-arrested-on-150-counts-of-voter-fraud

No voter fraud->insignificant incidences of fraud->not widespread fraud->not enough to change the election

Guessing the next step is something like, "LOL SUCKERS!"

It's the same standard I set on election day. The only question you ever needed to answer was if it was enough to alter the results of the election. It was not, so shut the fuck up you sore losers.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on March 01, 2021, 07:39:45 PM
Elfdart is not very bright, as it seems people are rapidly walking back the 'Brian Sicknick died from the 1/6 peaceful protest' claim. Hell, even his family seems to not know what killed him.

NYT quietly retracted the original 'killed with a fire extinguisher' story.

After the autopsy, it was revealed that his death was not due to blunt force trauma, but that doesn't mean his collapse and death hours later was a coincidence unrelated to protest. There is still an open homicide investigation. From Fox News:

Quote
A senior law enforcement official tells Fox News that investigators are "not ruling chemical irritants out" as a potential factor in the death of Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick during the Jan. 6 riot.

The source noted that the investigation remains open and that officials are "looking at everything."
Source: https://www.foxnews.com/us/capitol-police-officer-sicknicks-death-officials-not-ruling-out-chemical-irritants-as-probe-remains-open

Similar from USA Today:

Quote
Federal investigators probing the death of a U.S. Capitol Police officer killed in the Jan. 6 riot have zeroed in on a suspect seen on video appearing to spray a chemical substance on the officer before he later collapsed and died, two people familiar with the matter told The Associated Press.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/02/27/brian-sicknick-death-fbi-targets-suspect/6851588002/


As for the fire extinguisher story, you're implying that it was invented by the New York Times, when the same was reported by both Fox News and Breitbart. All three reported it because that is what sources said.

Quote
A total of five people were killed from the riot, including U.S. Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick, who died at the hospital the next day from injuries sustained when he was struck in the head with a fire extinguisher while physically engaging with protesters, officials said.
Source: https://www.foxnews.com/us/fbi-search-capitol-riot-suspects-beat-tased-dc-officer-fanone-heart-attack

Quote
A U.S. Capitol Police officer died Thursday night after allegedly being struck in the head by a fire extinguisher during Wednesday’s riots at the Capitol.
Source: https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/01/07/report-officer-dies-events-stemming-capitol-riots/
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on March 01, 2021, 09:13:59 PM
After the autopsy, it was revealed that his death was not due to blunt force trauma, but that doesn't mean his collapse and death hours later was a coincidence unrelated to protest. There is still an open homicide investigation.

You would imagine that, with the Army taking over the defense of the Capitol, the Police would be able to put their best people on the case to get that solved as quickly as possible.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on March 01, 2021, 10:43:49 PM
Elfdart is not very bright, as it seems people are rapidly walking back the 'Brian Sicknick died from the 1/6 peaceful protest' claim. Hell, even his family seems to not know what killed him.

NYT quietly retracted the original 'killed with a fire extinguisher' story.

After the autopsy, it was revealed that his death was not due to blunt force trauma, but that doesn't mean his collapse and death hours later was a coincidence unrelated to protest.

Possible, but it's pretty jarring for the story to go from 1. his skull being cracked open by a fire extinguisher, to 2. maybe he breathed in some pepper spray.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on March 02, 2021, 12:03:04 AM
After the autopsy, it was revealed that his death was not due to blunt force trauma, but that doesn't mean his collapse and death hours later was a coincidence unrelated to protest.

Possible, but it's pretty jarring for the story to go from 1. his skull being cracked open by a fire extinguisher, to 2. maybe he breathed in some pepper spray.

But #1 was never the story. It was reported from the start that he left and went back to the office -- unaware that he had any serious condition, but he later collapsed and died in the hospital. That's very different from having one's skull cracked open, in which case he would have been taken out in an ambulance. Sources reported that he had been struck with a fire extinguisher, and thus some sources apparently thought that was the cause. I'm not a doctor, but my understanding is that a head injury condition like a concussion or subdural hematoma can be not immediately noticeable, but can be life-threatening later. From the autopsy, that evidently turned out not to be the case - but of course, the autopsy wasn't available until weeks later. It still has not been made public.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on March 02, 2021, 12:59:35 AM
After the autopsy, it was revealed that his death was not due to blunt force trauma, but that doesn't mean his collapse and death hours later was a coincidence unrelated to protest.

Possible, but it's pretty jarring for the story to go from 1. his skull being cracked open by a fire extinguisher, to 2. maybe he breathed in some pepper spray.

But #1 was never the story. It was reported from the start that he left and went back to the office -- unaware that he had any serious condition, but he later collapsed and died in the hospital. That's very different from having one's skull cracked open, in which case he would have been taken out in an ambulance. Sources reported that he had been struck with a fire extinguisher, and thus some sources apparently thought that was the cause. I'm not a doctor, but my understanding is that a head injury condition like a concussion or subdural hematoma can be not immediately noticeable, but can be life-threatening later. From the autopsy, that evidently turned out not to be the case - but of course, the autopsy wasn't available until weeks later. It still has not been made public.

"Then on Wednesday, pro-Trump rioters attacked that citadel of democracy and overpowered Mr. Sicknick, 42, according to two law enforcement officials. With a bloody gash in his head, Mr. Sicknick was rushed to the hospital and placed on life support. He died on Thursday evening."

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/us/politics/police-officer-killed-capitol.html

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on March 02, 2021, 03:11:23 AM
After the autopsy, it was revealed that his death was not due to blunt force trauma, but that doesn't mean his collapse and death hours later was a coincidence unrelated to protest.

Possible, but it's pretty jarring for the story to go from 1. his skull being cracked open by a fire extinguisher, to 2. maybe he breathed in some pepper spray.

But #1 was never the story. It was reported from the start that he left and went back to the office -- unaware that he had any serious condition, but he later collapsed and died in the hospital. That's very different from having one's skull cracked open, in which case he would have been taken out in an ambulance. Sources reported that he had been struck with a fire extinguisher, and thus some sources apparently thought that was the cause. I'm not a doctor, but my understanding is that a head injury condition like a concussion or subdural hematoma can be not immediately noticeable, but can be life-threatening later. From the autopsy, that evidently turned out not to be the case - but of course, the autopsy wasn't available until weeks later. It still has not been made public.

"Then on Wednesday, pro-Trump rioters attacked that citadel of democracy and overpowered Mr. Sicknick, 42, according to two law enforcement officials. With a bloody gash in his head, Mr. Sicknick was rushed to the hospital and placed on life support. He died on Thursday evening."

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/us/politics/police-officer-killed-capitol.html

Interesting. I had not read that account, and it wasn't my impression at the time. I hadn't seen his injury described as a "bloody gash", and I'd agree it's jarring to shift from that. On the other hand, a "bloody gash" doesn't imply a life-threatening injury, and is different than "skull cracked open" which was your description.

Police at the time did say that he was injured and succumbed to his injuries. The official police statement read that "Officer Sicknick was responding to the riots on Wednesday, January 6, 2021, at the US Capitol and was injured while physically engaging with protesters. He returned to his division office and collapsed. He was taken to a local hospital where he succumbed to his injuries."

At this point, it still sounds to me like he had what seemed like non-life-threatening injuries, went back to the office -- and there collapsed. Other police at the time thought the collapse was due to his injuries (hence the police statement), but the later autopsy ruled out blunt-force trauma as cause of death -- though we still haven't had a cause of death released.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 02, 2021, 08:03:27 AM
Translation from jhkim-ese: 'Oops, he caught me.'

Police say a lot of things, sometimes at the behest of politicians. We just spent a year with people ranting and raving about how 'all cops are bastards', etc, and now suddenly 'oh they can do no wrong'?

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Brad on March 02, 2021, 11:36:40 AM
It's the same standard I set on election day. The only question you ever needed to answer was if it was enough to alter the results of the election. It was not, so shut the fuck up you sore losers.

So you're going with, "LOL SUCKERS!". Pathetic.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Elfdart on March 03, 2021, 09:46:05 PM
https://foxsanantonio.com/news/local/four-people-including-justice-of-the-peace-arrested-on-150-counts-of-voter-fraud

No voter fraud->insignificant incidences of fraud->not widespread fraud->not enough to change the election

Guessing the next step is something like, "LOL SUCKERS!"

It's the same standard I set on election day. The only question you ever needed to answer was if it was enough to alter the results of the election. It was not, so shut the fuck up you sore losers.

Two points that Brad was too stupid to notice:

1) The alleged fraud was perpetrated by a Republican Justice of the Peace and his accomplices.

2) No Democrat is demanding that the 2018 elections be thrown out, nor is any Democrat trying to get a mob of hooligans to undo the election results by threatening to kill elected officials in a putsch.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Elfdart on March 03, 2021, 10:14:05 PM
Translation from jhkim-ese: 'Oops, he caught me.'

Police say a lot of things, sometimes at the behest of politicians. We just spent a year with people ranting and raving about how 'all cops are bastards', etc, and now suddenly 'oh they can do no wrong'?

Except it wasn't just law enforcement, but Sicknick's own father who claimed he had died from a head injury: (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-policeofficer/u-s-capitol-police-officer-who-died-after-violent-assault-loved-his-job-idUSKBN29E0QE)

Quote
Sicknick, 42, died Thursday night, a day after physically engaging with a mob of supporters of President Donald Trump who stormed the U.S. Capitol where lawmakers had just begun a formal vote to certify Democrat Joe Biden’s victory in the Nov. 3 presidential election.

As rioters overpowered Capitol police, Sicknick was pepper-sprayed and hit in the head, his father said. Ambulance crews resuscitated him twice as he was rushed to a nearby Washington hospital. Sicknick died the next day.

“He ended up with a clot on the brain,” his father said. “If they had operated on him, he would’ve become a vegetable.”

Funny thing is, even if he wasn't bashed in the head but died from a stroke, that doesn't mean the Jan 6 fascists are off the hook. If prosecutors can show that Sicknick's stroke was caused by the strain of having to fight off a bunch of MAGA morons, they can still be charged with murder, like this scumbag:

LINK (https://6abc.com/1703228/)


Quote
EASTON, Pa. (WPVI) -- A man accused of having scared a woman so much during a Northampton County home-invasion robbery that she had a heart attack that night and died two months later has been convicted of second-degree murder.

Jurors deliberated for about six hours before convicting 29-year-old Quadir Taylor on most charges Friday night. The panel also convicted the Easton man of robbery, burglary, criminal conspiracy and related offenses, but acquitted him of aggravated assault and possessing an instrument of crime.

Taylor acknowledged having helped others rob 76-year-old Carrie Smith in her Wilson home in January 2012, but he disputed a forensic pathologist's conclusion that the heart attack caused her eventual death.

Taylor faces a mandatory life term, like two others also conviction of second-degree murder in the case.
Related topics:


Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Brad on March 03, 2021, 11:38:47 PM

Two points that Brad was too stupid to notice:

1) The alleged fraud was perpetrated by a Republican Justice of the Peace and his accomplices.

2) No Democrat is demanding that the 2018 elections be thrown out, nor is any Democrat trying to get a mob of hooligans to undo the election results by threatening to kill elected officials in a putsch.

What did I do besides post a link about pretty egregious election fraud? Your second point is so laughable that I honestly hope you seek mental help.

Funny thing is, even if he wasn't bashed in the head but died from a stroke, that doesn't mean the Jan 6 fascists are off the hook. If prosecutors can show that Sicknick's stroke was caused by the strain of having to fight off a bunch of MAGA morons, they can still be charged with murder, like this scumbag:

Yeah...get some help. Seems like you're delusional.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 04, 2021, 08:07:07 AM

Two points that Brad was too stupid to notice:

1) The alleged fraud was perpetrated by a Republican Justice of the Peace and his accomplices.

2) No Democrat is demanding that the 2018 elections be thrown out, nor is any Democrat trying to get a mob of hooligans to undo the election results by threatening to kill elected officials in a putsch.

What did I do besides post a link about pretty egregious election fraud? Your second point is so laughable that I honestly hope you seek mental help.

Funny thing is, even if he wasn't bashed in the head but died from a stroke, that doesn't mean the Jan 6 fascists are off the hook. If prosecutors can show that Sicknick's stroke was caused by the strain of having to fight off a bunch of MAGA morons, they can still be charged with murder, like this scumbag:

Yeah...get some help. Seems like you're delusional.
Elfdart also conveniently forgets that the Democrats and the left attempted to overturn the 2016 election.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Brad on March 04, 2021, 09:42:05 AM
Elfdart also conveniently forgets that the Democrats and the left attempted to overturn the 2016 election.

Per his spurious logic, if a fireman has a stroke because of the stress of putting out a fire at your house, his family can sue you for wrongful death. A fucking POLICE OFFICER who dies from "stress"? Like, they signed up for that shit. My God, the levels of stupidity Leftists use to justify anything they dislike is astounding.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 04, 2021, 02:27:24 PM
This intense interest in Sicknick is rather amusing, considering that for some reason charges keep getting dropped against Antifa tards. Even for charges of assaulting federal officers, a felony.

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/investigations/portland-protest-cases-dismissed-feds/283-002f01d2-3217-4b12-8725-3fda2cad119f

Dismissed with prejudice, which is bizarre. Unless, of course, you plan to have two sets of rules: one for your Sturmabteilung goons, and one for nonleftists.

But keep telling us how Biden is the 'law and order' president.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Brad on March 04, 2021, 02:49:19 PM
ANTIFA is funded by the Democrats, why wouldn't their charges be dropped?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on March 04, 2021, 03:28:15 PM
ANTIFA is funded by the Democrats, why wouldn't their charges be dropped?

Brad, ANTIFA is just an idea so how can you even prosecute an idea?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 05, 2021, 08:18:46 AM
The Sicknick story is really quite fascinating, in a morbid way.

The NYT originally stated he was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher. Then they 'updated' the story to state he was affected by bear mace. His mother thinks he died of a stroke, but nobody knows for sure because the D.C. medical examiner's office won't release the coroner's report (if I was facing any charges related to Sicknick I'd immediately push that angle hard -- go full corpus delicti, demand that the prosecution prove he was actually dead, the whole nine yards).

Then there's the case of Bruno Cua, a young idiot who decided to join in the 1/6 peaceful protest (yeah, I'm calling it that, until people stop calling the BLM riots peaceful protests). He's up on 12 federal counts, including assaulting a police officer (you know, the same charge DOJ dropped against the Antifa shitheads) and possessing a dangerous or deadly weapon. I won't excuse him -- my mantra's been 'don't go to stupid places' -- but I find it darkly hilarious that the federal prosecutors are playing up a homeschooled eighteen year old as some kind of malevolent terrorist while they pretend they don't see actual terrorists burning things down and attacking cops and journalists.

This is how things go kinetic, folks. Two sets of rules, and people start to think they can't get a fair shake in the system.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on March 05, 2021, 03:19:11 PM
The Sicknick story is really quite fascinating, in a morbid way.

The NYT originally stated he was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher. Then they 'updated' the story to state he was affected by bear mace. His mother thinks he died of a stroke, but nobody knows for sure because the D.C. medical examiner's office won't release the coroner's report (if I was facing any charges related to Sicknick I'd immediately push that angle hard -- go full corpus delicti, demand that the prosecution prove he was actually dead, the whole nine yards).

It's definitely strange. The FBI reported to the Senate this Tuesday, and said that they couldn't disclose cause of death.

Quote
Grassley: We all want to know what happened to Officer Brian Sicknick. Tragic death as a result of that January 6th assault. There's been conflicting reports about his cause of death. Have you determined the exact cause of death?

Wray: There is an ongoing investigation into his death. I have to be careful at this stage because it's ongoing not to get out in front of it. But I certainly understand and respect and appreciate the keen interest in what happened to him. After all, he was here protecting all of you. And as soon as there is information that we can appropriately share, we want to be able to do that. But at the moment, the investigation is still ongoing.

Grassley: So does that mean since the investigation going on, you have not determined the exact cause of the death?

Wray: That means we can't yet disclose the cause of death at this stage.

Grassley: But you have determined the cause of death?

Wray: I didn't say that. We're not at a point where we could disclose or confirm the cause of death.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?509033-1/fbi-director-christopher-wray-testifies-january-6-capitol-attack&live

I'm sure this leads to all sorts of speculation, but I don't see that it's clear. Some are saying that this is all a Biden-lead conspiracy, but Director Wray who is testifying is Trump's pick for FBI director to replace Comey. And the initial investigation was all handled under the Trump administration for at least two weeks.


Then there's the case of Bruno Cua, a young idiot who decided to join in the 1/6 peaceful protest (yeah, I'm calling it that, until people stop calling the BLM riots peaceful protests). He's up on 12 federal counts, including assaulting a police officer (you know, the same charge DOJ dropped against the Antifa shitheads) and possessing a dangerous or deadly weapon. I won't excuse him -- my mantra's been 'don't go to stupid places' -- but I find it darkly hilarious that the federal prosecutors are playing up a homeschooled eighteen year old as some kind of malevolent terrorist while they pretend they don't see actual terrorists burning things down and attacking cops and journalists.

This is how things go kinetic, folks. Two sets of rules, and people start to think they can't get a fair shake in the system.

Both sides are biased -- but saying "I'll be biased until the other side becomes unbiased" just means constantly increasing bias. I think people who assault police officers should be prosecuted and jailed regardless of their politics. Regardless of what happened to Sicknick, cops were actually attacked at the Capitol. From police news,

Quote
“I have officers who were not issued helmets prior to the attack who have sustained head injuries,” said the Capitol Police officer’s union chairman, Gus Papathanasiou, in a statement Wednesday. “One officer has two cracked ribs and two smashed spinal discs and another was stabbed with a metal fence stake, to name some of the injuries.”

According to The Post, 65 D.C. police officers suffered concussions, swollen ankles and wrists, bruises, and irritated lungs from pepper spray. Officers were pushed down stairs, trampled and punched. 81 Capitol police officers were assaulted during the siege, but the extent of their injuries was not detailed in reports.

“The officers are angry, and I don’t blame them. The entire executive team failed us, and they must be held accountable,” he said. “Their inaction cost one officer his life, and we have almost 140 responding officers injured. They have a lot to atone for.”
Source: https://www.police1.com/officer-safety/articles/police-union-over-140-officers-injured-in-capitol-siege-NSi5xcpt1sIELYvJ/
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on March 05, 2021, 03:49:42 PM
Both sides are biased -- but saying "I'll be biased until the other side becomes unbiased" just means constantly increasing bias.

I agree, but who will de-escalate first? Should one side de-escalate when the other side is still escalating? If I can convince the public that my side are misguided, and my opponents are horrible assholes, I gain a huge propoganda advantage.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on March 05, 2021, 04:22:42 PM
Both sides are biased -- but saying "I'll be biased until the other side becomes unbiased" just means constantly increasing bias.

I agree, but who will de-escalate first? Should one side de-escalate when the other side is still escalating? If I can convince the public that my side are misguided, and my opponents are horrible assholes, I gain a huge propoganda advantage.

I'd say it has to be done in tiny steps at a time from both sides.

I think the main thing to call out is the pattern of clickbait and outrage. I find it's very common that the *only* thing one side reads of the opposing side is the cherry-picked most outrageous stuff -- carefully selected as clickbait either by social media algorithms or by their preferred media.

Because of all the clickbait outrage, they are convinced that the other side is escalating -- and they have to escalate to. And this becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy for both sides.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on March 05, 2021, 04:23:13 PM
Both sides are biased -- but saying "I'll be biased until the other side becomes unbiased" just means constantly increasing bias.

I agree, but who will de-escalate first? Should one side de-escalate when the other side is still escalating? If I can convince the public that my side are misguided, and my opponents are horrible assholes, I gain a huge propoganda advantage.

Don’t de-escalate, hold them to their new standards.  Don’t accept kids in cages!  Believe all women!

Make them walk it back.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on March 05, 2021, 05:08:22 PM
It's the same standard I set on election day. The only question you ever needed to answer was if it was enough to alter the results of the election. It was not, so shut the fuck up you sore losers.

So you're going with, "LOL SUCKERS!". Pathetic.

I said from the beginning the same exact thing I said throughout and to the end. People kept accusing others of a moving standard but my standard was extremely consistent. There was only ever one question, "But for the argument you are making, would Biden still have won?"

That's it. It was the only question which ever mattered. The rest was a distraction. If fraud happened, but not enough to change the result, then that's not a topic about a stolen election (though it is an argument to make some changes to our elections system to prevent future fraud).

Everyone failed to prove the election was stolen. They argue about fraud here and there, but never in anything close to sufficient quantities to steal the election.  Which from day one was the only question I ever challenged people with.

So now they're defaulting to, "But some fraud happened and..." to which I answer "And that means the election was not stolen."
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 05, 2021, 06:45:17 PM
It's the same standard I set on election day. The only question you ever needed to answer was if it was enough to alter the results of the election. It was not, so shut the fuck up you sore losers.

So you're going with, "LOL SUCKERS!". Pathetic.

I said from the beginning the same exact thing I said throughout and to the end. People kept accusing others of a moving standard but my standard was extremely consistent. There was only ever one question, "But for the argument you are making, would Biden still have won?"

That's it. It was the only question which ever mattered. The rest was a distraction. If fraud happened, but not enough to change the result, then that's not a topic about a stolen election (though it is an argument to make some changes to our elections system to prevent future fraud).

Everyone failed to prove the election was stolen. They argue about fraud here and there, but never in anything close to sufficient quantities to steal the election.  Which from day one was the only question I ever challenged people with.

So now they're defaulting to, "But some fraud happened and..." to which I answer "And that means the election was not stolen."
Great. Here's a fistful of $20 bills.

Some of them are fake, but not enough to matter.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on March 05, 2021, 07:47:09 PM
I said from the beginning the same exact thing I said throughout and to the end. People kept accusing others of a moving standard but my standard was extremely consistent. There was only ever one question, "But for the argument you are making, would Biden still have won?"

That's it. It was the only question which ever mattered. The rest was a distraction. If fraud happened, but not enough to change the result, then that's not a topic about a stolen election (though it is an argument to make some changes to our elections system to prevent future fraud).
As someone who voted for None of the Above, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOwesWn3vU4) I think the only question that mattered is that the allegations of impropriety (fraud is an irrelevant smokescreen) were taken seriously by both parties, thoroughly investigated, people were punished for misbehavior, and any problems were addressed to ensure they won't happen in the next election. In other words, I care about the integrity of the system, fairness, transparency, and the public's trust.

Unfortunately....
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Elfdart on March 05, 2021, 09:14:14 PM
ANTIFA is funded by the Democrats, why wouldn't their charges be dropped?

Evidence please.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Elfdart on March 05, 2021, 10:20:39 PM
Elfdart also conveniently forgets that the Democrats and the left attempted to overturn the 2016 election.

Some House members tried to do that, but not only did Joe Biden rule each challenge out of order, but not a single senator would agree to endorse any of the challenges. Clearly you're too fucktarded to tell the difference between a handful of congressmen making symbolic and pointless gestures where no one was injured, let alone killed; and sending a mob to physically attack people and threaten to lynch the Speaker and Vice President -and causing the deaths of five people.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on March 06, 2021, 12:01:17 AM
It's the same standard I set on election day. The only question you ever needed to answer was if it was enough to alter the results of the election. It was not, so shut the fuck up you sore losers.

So you're going with, "LOL SUCKERS!". Pathetic.

I said from the beginning the same exact thing I said throughout and to the end. People kept accusing others of a moving standard but my standard was extremely consistent. There was only ever one question, "But for the argument you are making, would Biden still have won?"

That's it. It was the only question which ever mattered. The rest was a distraction. If fraud happened, but not enough to change the result, then that's not a topic about a stolen election (though it is an argument to make some changes to our elections system to prevent future fraud).

Everyone failed to prove the election was stolen. They argue about fraud here and there, but never in anything close to sufficient quantities to steal the election.  Which from day one was the only question I ever challenged people with.

So now they're defaulting to, "But some fraud happened and..." to which I answer "And that means the election was not stolen."
Great. Here's a fistful of $20 bills.

Some of them are fake, but not enough to matter.

If you're buying something that costs $20 and you hand me $60 in 20s and at least $20 of them is real, then yes, that's all that matters.

You cannot say the election was stolen, if you're guy didn't actually win and the other guy really did win. That's always been the bottom line. The rest is just relatively minor advocacy for some election reform changes. Which you can do in any year for any election. So go on and keep advocating for it - but it's not really germane to the topic of "Trump won' if he didn't.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Kyle Aaron on March 06, 2021, 12:46:11 AM
If you're buying something that costs $20 and you hand me $60 in 20s and at least $20 of them is real, then yes, that's all that matters.
You would still be legally obliged to report him for trying to pass counterfeit bills, and the police would still be obliged to investigate.

So in your analogy, you are demonstrating the need for an independent electoral commission in the US along the lines of the AEC (https://www.aec.gov.au).

As a comparison, in a recent federal election, the AEC in Western Australia lost some 1,700 Senate votes - so the High Court sitting as the court of disputed returns, ordered them (https://www.sbs.com.au/news/explainer-the-wa-senate-re-election) to hold the entire Senate election again. The numbers lost weren't enough to substantially change the result of the election, but it's considered that it's not enough that the process be honest, it must be seen to be honest. The process must be above reproach and beyond reasonable doubt.

As the second link notes, "About 90% of [survey] respondents have indicated “a great deal” or “a fair amount” of faith in the organisation." Would anyone say that about 90% of Americans have a great deal or fair amount of faith in the many and various organisations running US elections?

An independent electoral commission would help in this. What the US Secret Service does for the US currency, a USEC could do for elections.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: KingCheops on March 07, 2021, 12:17:08 PM
Don't go passing out fake 20's while high on fentanyl.  You might become a saint.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 07, 2021, 06:45:07 PM
Don't go passing out fake 20's while high on fentanyl.  You might become a saint.
Only if you're the right skin tone.

Yeah, I went there. Fight me.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on March 07, 2021, 06:48:05 PM
Don't go passing out fake 20's while high on fentanyl.  You might become a saint.
Only if you're the right skin tone.

Yeah, I went there. Fight me.

Fight Fight Fight
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on March 07, 2021, 06:54:34 PM
Don't go passing out fake 20's while high on fentanyl.  You might become a saint.
Only if you're the right skin tone.

Yeah, I went there. Fight me.

Yawn...

(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/0901bf1e-5246-4cf3-aaa6-3dad01c4ad01/d8kawgd-f7c9e098-2116-453f-81f3-adc646bfbe73.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJpc3MiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwic3ViIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTpmaWxlLmRvd25sb2FkIl0sIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiIvZi8wOTAxYmYxZS01MjQ2LTRjZjMtYWFhNi0zZGFkMDFjNGFkMDEvZDhrYXdnZC1mN2M5ZTA5OC0yMTE2LTQ1M2YtODFmMy1hZGM2NDZiZmJlNzMucG5nIn1dXX0.h6l9FMsKWFh5uL59nJHn9cO_TXs7XN50_pN4ylUlR_o)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on March 08, 2021, 11:27:57 AM
If you're buying something that costs $20 and you hand me $60 in 20s and at least $20 of them is real, then yes, that's all that matters.
You would still be legally obliged to report him for trying to pass counterfeit bills, and the police would still be obliged to investigate.

Yes.

Of course, it's still not germane to whether or not he paid enough real money to buy the thing he was buying. It might also be an issue he needs to go to prison for having counterfeit money. Or to bring it back to the topic - we should still investigate and prosecute election fraud and take steps to see it never happens again. But, that still doesn't help the "Trump won" argument if he didn't in fact win. And the bulk of this thread is about "Trump won."
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on March 08, 2021, 12:10:36 PM
If you're buying something that costs $20 and you hand me $60 in 20s and at least $20 of them is real, then yes, that's all that matters.
You would still be legally obliged to report him for trying to pass counterfeit bills, and the police would still be obliged to investigate.

Yes.

Of course, it's still not germane to whether or not he paid enough real money to buy the thing he was buying. It might also be an issue he needs to go to prison for having counterfeit money. Or to bring it back to the topic - we should still investigate and prosecute election fraud and take steps to see it never happens again. But, that still doesn't help the "Trump won" argument if he didn't in fact win. And the bulk of this thread is about "Trump won."
  I do not know what happened, and neither do you, as you, though you may not like it, are a pleb just like me.  I DO know that several states violated their own constitutions and did everything they could to make IDs, signature verifications or anything that could reasonably question a mailed in ballot something you just can not do in a meaningful way.   I also know that there is no justification for mass mail in voting.  If you as  a citizen can not take the time to go to a poll, you should not be able to vote.  If you have real, documented health concerns you can go through all the steps to get a legit absentee ballot.  Doing an end around will make the nation ungovernable, regardless of if trump was cheated or not, because everything is perception and degree.  If enough people think something foul went on, it becomes reality to them, and at this point the numbers of people who think something dirty took place are huge. 

   It will cause problems down the line.  If you have kids, you have got to be concerned with how that affects them, one way or the other.  If you dont have kids, I guess you can YOLO and keep whistling down the road of global empire you seem to be on. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on March 08, 2021, 05:06:01 PM
As someone who voted for None of the Above, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOwesWn3vU4) I think the only question that mattered is that the allegations of impropriety (fraud is an irrelevant smokescreen) were taken seriously by both parties, thoroughly investigated, people were punished for misbehavior, and any problems were addressed to ensure they won't happen in the next election. In other words, I care about the integrity of the system, fairness, transparency, and the public's trust.

Unfortunately....

You say "fraud is an irrelevant smokescreen" but fraud is explicitly what the former president and his supporters are claiming - loudly and repeatedly. If you think it's a smokescreen, then the blame for that smokescreen is clearly on Trump and his supporters.

Since long before 2020, I have been a supporter of a number of election reforms. I would love for both sides to approach these issues in a rational, non-partisan, and unbiased way. In order to get to that point, though, I think we need to clear away the smokescreen.


So in your analogy, you are demonstrating the need for an independent electoral commission in the US along the lines of the AEC (https://www.aec.gov.au).

As a comparison, in a recent federal election, the AEC in Western Australia lost some 1,700 Senate votes - so the High Court sitting as the court of disputed returns, ordered them (https://www.sbs.com.au/news/explainer-the-wa-senate-re-election) to hold the entire Senate election again. The numbers lost weren't enough to substantially change the result of the election, but it's considered that it's not enough that the process be honest, it must be seen to be honest. The process must be above reproach and beyond reasonable doubt.

As I said in the previous election thread, I'd be all for an independent electoral commission. As far as I can tell, though, that's not going to get at the problem -- because I guarantee that if we had an AEC that said that Biden won, Trump's supporters would have dismissed the AEC conclusions as being part of the conspiracy, in exactly the same way that they dismissed the responses from Republican state officials.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on March 08, 2021, 05:34:30 PM
As I said in the previous election thread, I'd be all for an independent electoral commission. As far as I can tell, though, that's not going to get at the problem -- because I guarantee that if we had an AEC that said that Biden won, Trump's supporters would have dismissed the AEC conclusions as being part of the conspiracy, in exactly the same way that they dismissed the responses from Republican state officials.

Both sides are heavily invested in the smokescreen. Any oversight group is going to have to battle uphill to demonstrate their non-partisan stance.
We keep hearing from the major media outlets that they are the bastion of non-partisan reporting, while blatantly lying and fabricating "news" in favor of one party.
The American Civil Liberties Union have gone full racist in order to be anti-racist, and have come out against individual rights concerning speech and expression.
So I guess I agree, with the caveat that there is good reason to be suspicious of any claims at independant oversight.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on March 08, 2021, 05:54:53 PM
As someone who voted for None of the Above, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOwesWn3vU4) I think the only question that mattered is that the allegations of impropriety (fraud is an irrelevant smokescreen) were taken seriously by both parties, thoroughly investigated, people were punished for misbehavior, and any problems were addressed to ensure they won't happen in the next election. In other words, I care about the integrity of the system, fairness, transparency, and the public's trust.

Unfortunately....

You say "fraud is an irrelevant smokescreen" but fraud is explicitly what the former president and his supporters are claiming - loudly and repeatedly. If you think it's a smokescreen, then the blame for that smokescreen is clearly on Trump and his supporters.

Since long before 2020, I have been a supporter of a number of election reforms. I would love for both sides to approach these issues in a rational, non-partisan, and unbiased way. In order to get to that point, though, I think we need to clear away the smokescreen.

Fraud is an irrelevant smokescreen.


I don't care what Trump said. I'm not a Trump supporter. In the same post you just quoted, I explicitly pointed out that I didn't vote him. Yet your response is Trump Trump TRUMP. That's a smokescreen, too. You claim to want to talk about it rationally, but given the chance you immediately try to divert the topic back into the peasoup partisan fog of fraud.

Fraud isn't the issue. You're clearly a diehard Trump fanatic, but did you pay any attention to suits filed by his legal team? None of them alleged fraud, and quite properly so. Fraud takes a long time to prosecute, only targets specific individuals, and since it only targets specific individuals it requires a very high burden of proof. It's a way to punish people who did wrong, and putting a few figurative heads on pikes outside the local election office is important for discouraging potential malefactors, but it's not the way to flip an election (don't care), and (do care) is a very minor aspect of election integrity.

Impropriety like unequal treatment, or a failure to obey their laws, or changing the rules without proper authorization, or failing to allow proper supervision, or what's implied by all the statistical anomalies, and on and on are much more widespread, easier to demonstrate, easier to prove, and, since they're more abstract and clinical and aren't attacking individuals, they at least theoretically should be less likely to rouse anyone to a high dudgeon and thus should be easier to address in the public sphere. (In a less insanely polarized and omnipresently politicized world, at least). These need to be taken seriously, fully addressed, and then redressed before the next election comes along. Clarence Thomas laid out the reasoning for this quite well, in his recent dissenting opinion where he uncharacteristically called out his fellow robed autocrats for dereliction of duty.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on March 08, 2021, 06:18:06 PM
As someone who voted for None of the Above, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOwesWn3vU4) I think the only question that mattered is that the allegations of impropriety (fraud is an irrelevant smokescreen) were taken seriously by both parties, thoroughly investigated, people were punished for misbehavior, and any problems were addressed to ensure they won't happen in the next election. In other words, I care about the integrity of the system, fairness, transparency, and the public's trust.

Unfortunately....

You say "fraud is an irrelevant smokescreen" but fraud is explicitly what the former president and his supporters are claiming - loudly and repeatedly. If you think it's a smokescreen, then the blame for that smokescreen is clearly on Trump and his supporters.

Since long before 2020, I have been a supporter of a number of election reforms. I would love for both sides to approach these issues in a rational, non-partisan, and unbiased way. In order to get to that point, though, I think we need to clear away the smokescreen.


So in your analogy, you are demonstrating the need for an independent electoral commission in the US along the lines of the AEC (https://www.aec.gov.au).

As a comparison, in a recent federal election, the AEC in Western Australia lost some 1,700 Senate votes - so the High Court sitting as the court of disputed returns, ordered them (https://www.sbs.com.au/news/explainer-the-wa-senate-re-election) to hold the entire Senate election again. The numbers lost weren't enough to substantially change the result of the election, but it's considered that it's not enough that the process be honest, it must be seen to be honest. The process must be above reproach and beyond reasonable doubt.

As I said in the previous election thread, I'd be all for an independent electoral commission. As far as I can tell, though, that's not going to get at the problem -- because I guarantee that if we had an AEC that said that Biden won, Trump's supporters would have dismissed the AEC conclusions as being part of the conspiracy, in exactly the same way that they dismissed the responses from Republican state officials.

  Yep, just like the press, democrats, and many democrat voters have harped for over 4 years that Russia got Trump elected.   So it sort of looks like a thing that Trump didnt start, or his followers, just simply circling back to what the Press and democrats started.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on March 08, 2021, 11:04:44 PM
If you're buying something that costs $20 and you hand me $60 in 20s and at least $20 of them is real, then yes, that's all that matters.
You would still be legally obliged to report him for trying to pass counterfeit bills, and the police would still be obliged to investigate.

Yes.

Of course, it's still not germane to whether or not he paid enough real money to buy the thing he was buying. It might also be an issue he needs to go to prison for having counterfeit money. Or to bring it back to the topic - we should still investigate and prosecute election fraud and take steps to see it never happens again. But, that still doesn't help the "Trump won" argument if he didn't in fact win. And the bulk of this thread is about "Trump won."
  I do not know what happened, and neither do you, as you, though you may not like it, are a pleb just like me.  I DO know that several states violated their own constitutions and did everything they could to make IDs, signature verifications or anything that could reasonably question a mailed in ballot something you just can not do in a meaningful way.   I also know that there is no justification for mass mail in voting.  If you as  a citizen can not take the time to go to a poll, you should not be able to vote.  If you have real, documented health concerns you can go through all the steps to get a legit absentee ballot.  Doing an end around will make the nation ungovernable, regardless of if trump was cheated or not, because everything is perception and degree.  If enough people think something foul went on, it becomes reality to them, and at this point the numbers of people who think something dirty took place are huge. 

   It will cause problems down the line.  If you have kids, you have got to be concerned with how that affects them, one way or the other.  If you dont have kids, I guess you can YOLO and keep whistling down the road of global empire you seem to be on.

No, all of that is complete hogwash. No state constitutions were violated - that was accusations by amateur non-lawyers pretending to be lawyers. NOT ONE of those accusations turned out ot be accurate. In most cases, the state legislature had given the Governor emergency authority to take actions which included the power to change the election in that manner. Which you can dislike, and you can hold your breath until you turn blue in protest or whatever, but it's totally legal under State Constitutions for legislatures to grant broad emergency powers like they did, and it's totally legal for Governors to use that broad emergency power like they did. And your "I read it on the Internet so it must be true" authoritative expertise notwithstanding, that's not a violation of a state's constitution at all.

Furthermore, it's a completely unethical and shitty argument from shitty human beings to claim citizens who otherwise have the right to vote shouldn't have their votes counted because they didn't physically go to a polling station. NOTHING about in-person voting is an indication of righteousness or knowledge or wisdom or anything about democracy which would lead one to conclude that sort of voting is superior in any way to mail-in voting for a democracy. It's just assholes trying to game the system to "win" by claiming those votes are somehow less legit or valuable than in-person votes. Nor does it help the "trump won" cause in any way to claim he lost because more people voted for the other guy due to easier methods of voting. Fuck dude, if you want your guy to win, persuade more people to vote for you rather than the other guy, no matter what method they use to vote. Don't be a pussy and whine you're not up to that challenge.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on March 09, 2021, 01:09:33 AM
I also know that there is no justification for mass mail in voting.  If you as  a citizen can not take the time to go to a poll, you should not be able to vote.  If you have real, documented health concerns you can go through all the steps to get a legit absentee ballot.  Doing an end around will make the nation ungovernable, regardless of if trump was cheated or not, because everything is perception and degree.  If enough people think something foul went on, it becomes reality to them, and at this point the numbers of people who think something dirty took place are huge. 

It will cause problems down the line.  If you have kids, you have got to be concerned with how that affects them, one way or the other.  If you dont have kids, I guess you can YOLO and keep whistling down the road of global empire you seem to be on.

Empirically, I don't agree that this is the case. Switzerland has been using all all-postal voting for years, and it doesn't seem to have affected them. Within the U.S., Utah has also been using all-postal voting, and it doesn't seem to have been causing problems. There are some additional vulnerabilities, but they can be addressed by increased enforcement and security technologies - possibly like the USPS blockchain-based patent. Greater security measures are a good idea regardless of mail-in or not.

I'm not even particularly attached to postal voting. In years other than 2020, postal voting is mostly a wash - rarely favoring either Democrats or Republicans. The reason for the shift in 2020 is covid-19, which won't be a factor in later elections. Democrats traditionally have a slight advantage in early in-person voting, and Republicans a slight advantage on Election Day in-person voting.

I've been voting by mail personally because it's more convenient. It helps me get involved especially in local races, because it feels easier to take my time to review stuff like school boards that I really have to research. I do think that we should either require early voting as an option, change voting to a Sunday, or make Election Day a national holiday. I think it's pretty obviously flawed to have people have to work a full day and then get to the polls.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Kyle Aaron on March 09, 2021, 05:32:00 AM
As far as I can tell, though, that's not going to get at the problem -- because I guarantee that if we had an AEC that said that Biden won, Trump's supporters would have dismissed the AEC conclusions as being part of the conspiracy
Nah. Because the commission would take care of all elections - sheriffs, local, state, everything. Over time they build up their credibility. Properly-constituted, it would not have Reps or Dems, but a bunch of officials who really don't give a shit.

But it'll never happen, because there is bipartisan support for politicising everything, even judge's jobs.

New lunatic idea making its way across the internet.

Trump runs for Congress in 2022. Reps take over the House. Trump becomes Speaker. His first act is to impeach Biden and Harris. The Senate removes them both. He serves as President for the remainder of Biden's term and can still run again in 2024.

That's so stupid I like it.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on March 09, 2021, 07:48:58 AM
The reason for the shift in 2020 is covid-19, which won't be a factor in later elections.

I would not bet money on that.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 09, 2021, 10:51:56 AM
https://notthebee.com/article/the-pro-life-evangelicals-for-biden-say-they-feel-betrayed-by-his-radical-abortion-platform

*howls of derisive laughter*

Congrats, NeverTrumpers. You helped put a drooling halfwit controlled by radleft flunkies in the White House, and they're doing their damnedest to make sure they never lose power again.

But hey, no more mean tweets!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on March 09, 2021, 12:05:46 PM
If you're buying something that costs $20 and you hand me $60 in 20s and at least $20 of them is real, then yes, that's all that matters.
You would still be legally obliged to report him for trying to pass counterfeit bills, and the police would still be obliged to investigate.

Yes.

Of course, it's still not germane to whether or not he paid enough real money to buy the thing he was buying. It might also be an issue he needs to go to prison for having counterfeit money. Or to bring it back to the topic - we should still investigate and prosecute election fraud and take steps to see it never happens again. But, that still doesn't help the "Trump won" argument if he didn't in fact win. And the bulk of this thread is about "Trump won."
  I do not know what happened, and neither do you, as you, though you may not like it, are a pleb just like me.  I DO know that several states violated their own constitutions and did everything they could to make IDs, signature verifications or anything that could reasonably question a mailed in ballot something you just can not do in a meaningful way.   I also know that there is no justification for mass mail in voting.  If you as  a citizen can not take the time to go to a poll, you should not be able to vote.  If you have real, documented health concerns you can go through all the steps to get a legit absentee ballot.  Doing an end around will make the nation ungovernable, regardless of if trump was cheated or not, because everything is perception and degree.  If enough people think something foul went on, it becomes reality to them, and at this point the numbers of people who think something dirty took place are huge. 

   It will cause problems down the line.  If you have kids, you have got to be concerned with how that affects them, one way or the other.  If you dont have kids, I guess you can YOLO and keep whistling down the road of global empire you seem to be on.

No, all of that is complete hogwash. No state constitutions were violated - that was accusations by amateur non-lawyers pretending to be lawyers. NOT ONE of those accusations turned out ot be accurate. In most cases, the state legislature had given the Governor emergency authority to take actions which included the power to change the election in that manner. Which you can dislike, and you can hold your breath until you turn blue in protest or whatever, but it's totally legal under State Constitutions for legislatures to grant broad emergency powers like they did, and it's totally legal for Governors to use that broad emergency power like they did. And your "I read it on the Internet so it must be true" authoritative expertise notwithstanding, that's not a violation of a state's constitution at all.

Furthermore, it's a completely unethical and shitty argument from shitty human beings to claim citizens who otherwise have the right to vote shouldn't have their votes counted because they didn't physically go to a polling station. NOTHING about in-person voting is an indication of righteousness or knowledge or wisdom or anything about democracy which would lead one to conclude that sort of voting is superior in any way to mail-in voting for a democracy. It's just assholes trying to game the system to "win" by claiming those votes are somehow less legit or valuable than in-person votes. Nor does it help the "trump won" cause in any way to claim he lost because more people voted for the other guy due to easier methods of voting. Fuck dude, if you want your guy to win, persuade more people to vote for you rather than the other guy, no matter what method they use to vote. Don't be a pussy and whine you're not up to that challenge.

  Call me a pussy if you like, but I do feel that something that has value should have a level of responsibility attached to it.  Taking the time and effort to take part in something that so many feel is so important is not unethical.   I didnt have a guy who could win, all I had were different ways to lose.    in person voting is something that is harder to fake, and does put more responsibility onto the citizen.   It is superior, period.  You talk of gaming a system where there are places where people still harvest ballots.  I would also request we speak as if we were face to face, as tossing insults about is very, very easy to do on the internet, and not something sensible people would do should there be a consequence of escalating emotions.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on March 09, 2021, 12:15:57 PM
I also know that there is no justification for mass mail in voting.  If you as  a citizen can not take the time to go to a poll, you should not be able to vote.  If you have real, documented health concerns you can go through all the steps to get a legit absentee ballot.  Doing an end around will make the nation ungovernable, regardless of if trump was cheated or not, because everything is perception and degree.  If enough people think something foul went on, it becomes reality to them, and at this point the numbers of people who think something dirty took place are huge. 

It will cause problems down the line.  If you have kids, you have got to be concerned with how that affects them, one way or the other.  If you dont have kids, I guess you can YOLO and keep whistling down the road of global empire you seem to be on.

Empirically, I don't agree that this is the case. Switzerland has been using all all-postal voting for years, and it doesn't seem to have affected them. Within the U.S., Utah has also been using all-postal voting, and it doesn't seem to have been causing problems. There are some additional vulnerabilities, but they can be addressed by increased enforcement and security technologies - possibly like the USPS blockchain-based patent. Greater security measures are a good idea regardless of mail-in or not.

I'm not even particularly attached to postal voting. In years other than 2020, postal voting is mostly a wash - rarely favoring either Democrats or Republicans. The reason for the shift in 2020 is covid-19, which won't be a factor in later elections. Democrats traditionally have a slight advantage in early in-person voting, and Republicans a slight advantage on Election Day in-person voting.

I've been voting by mail personally because it's more convenient. It helps me get involved especially in local races, because it feels easier to take my time to review stuff like school boards that I really have to research. I do think that we should either require early voting as an option, change voting to a Sunday, or make Election Day a national holiday. I think it's pretty obviously flawed to have people have to work a full day and then get to the polls.

  So because a very homogenous and tiny (by comparison) nation, and a very small and homogenous (by comparison) state have no problems with mail in voting all is fine?  I think not.  I think people in other places tend to have more difference of opinion/worldview/etc and that is why places have laws,  because reality is some people with enough conflicting opinions cheat.  If everything places like Switzaland, Norway, etc did were scalable, everyone would do them.  But populations and differences and natural resources, etc make a difference.   I could not say that mail in voting could not be carried with zero problems, I can say they way it is handled in the USA looks like a fucking shit show.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on March 09, 2021, 04:01:10 PM
https://notthebee.com/article/the-pro-life-evangelicals-for-biden-say-they-feel-betrayed-by-his-radical-abortion-platform

*howls of derisive laughter*

Congrats, NeverTrumpers. You helped put a drooling halfwit controlled by radleft flunkies in the White House, and they're doing their damnedest to make sure they never lose power again.

But hey, no more mean tweets!

I admit to some schadenfreude over the never Trumper conservatives getting bitten in the ass by Biden, but goddamn, what the hell did they expect?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 09, 2021, 06:08:25 PM
https://notthebee.com/article/the-pro-life-evangelicals-for-biden-say-they-feel-betrayed-by-his-radical-abortion-platform

*howls of derisive laughter*

Congrats, NeverTrumpers. You helped put a drooling halfwit controlled by radleft flunkies in the White House, and they're doing their damnedest to make sure they never lose power again.

But hey, no more mean tweets!

I admit to some schadenfreude over the never Trumper conservatives getting bitten in the ass by Biden, but goddamn, what the hell did they expect?
To be honest, I have no idea.

I can understand 'I don't like Trump'. Fair enough. But 'I hate Trump so much I want to push China Joe into power'?

Holy shit, and they call Trump fans cultists?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on March 09, 2021, 07:21:20 PM
https://notthebee.com/article/the-pro-life-evangelicals-for-biden-say-they-feel-betrayed-by-his-radical-abortion-platform

*howls of derisive laughter*

Congrats, NeverTrumpers. You helped put a drooling halfwit controlled by radleft flunkies in the White House, and they're doing their damnedest to make sure they never lose power again.

But hey, no more mean tweets!

I admit to some schadenfreude over the never Trumper conservatives getting bitten in the ass by Biden, but goddamn, what the hell did they expect?
To be honest, I have no idea.

I can understand 'I don't like Trump'. Fair enough. But 'I hate Trump so much I want to push China Joe into power'?

Holy shit, and they call Trump fans cultists?

I could understand if the idea was "Well, we're going to lose four years of ground on both conservative and liberal issues, but it's worth it to get rid of Trump."
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on March 09, 2021, 07:31:01 PM
https://notthebee.com/article/the-pro-life-evangelicals-for-biden-say-they-feel-betrayed-by-his-radical-abortion-platform

*howls of derisive laughter*

Congrats, NeverTrumpers. You helped put a drooling halfwit controlled by radleft flunkies in the White House, and they're doing their damnedest to make sure they never lose power again.

But hey, no more mean tweets!

I admit to some schadenfreude over the never Trumper conservatives getting bitten in the ass by Biden, but goddamn, what the hell did they expect?
To be honest, I have no idea.

I can understand 'I don't like Trump'. Fair enough. But 'I hate Trump so much I want to push China Joe into power'?

Holy shit, and they call Trump fans cultists?

I could understand if the idea was "Well, we're going to lose four years of ground on both conservative and liberal issues, but it's worth it to get rid of Trump."

You guys know that is not how they think, right?  o_O
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on March 09, 2021, 07:43:08 PM
To be honest, I have no idea.

I can understand 'I don't like Trump'. Fair enough. But 'I hate Trump so much I want to push China Joe into power'?

Holy shit, and they call Trump fans cultists?

Here was the signed statement on the group's website, that has since been taken down.

Quote
AS PRO-LIFE EVANGELICALS, WE DISAGREE WITH VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN AND THE DEMOCRATIC PLATFORM ON THE ISSUE OF ABORTION. BUT WE BELIEVE A BIBLICALLY SHAPED COMMITMENT TO THE SANCTITY OF HUMAN LIFE COMPELS US TO A CONSISTENT ETHIC OF LIFE THAT AFFIRMS THE SANCTITY OF HUMAN LIFE FROM BEGINNING TO END.

Many things that good political decisions could change destroy persons created in the image of God and violate the sanctity of human life. Poverty kills millions every year. So does lack of healthcare and smoking. Racism kills. Unless we quickly make major changes, devastating climate change will kill tens of millions. Poverty, lack of accessible health care services, smoking, racism and climate change are all pro-life issues. As the National Association of Evangelicals’ official public policy document (FOR THE HEALTH OF THE NATION) insists, “Faithful evangelical civic engagement and witness must champion a biblically balanced agenda.“  Therefore we oppose “one issue” political thinking because it lacks biblical balance.

Knowing that the most common reason women give for abortion is the financial difficulty of another child, we appreciate a number of Democratic proposals that would significantly alleviate that financial burden: accessible health services for all citizens, affordable childcare, a minimum wage that lifts workers out of poverty.

For these reasons, we believe that on balance, Joe Biden’s policies are more consistent with the biblically shaped ethic of life than those of Donald Trump. Therefore, even as we continue to urge different policies on abortion, we urge evangelicals to elect Joe Biden as president.
Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20201029000257/https://www.prolifeevangelicalsforbiden.com/

From this, I'm not sure what they expected. They knew they were going to disagree on the issue of abortion, but they apparently supported him for issues of human life on other fronts - health care, childcare, and poverty.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on March 09, 2021, 08:19:43 PM
Does anyone think that Kamala will be successfully able to take out Cumo?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 09, 2021, 09:53:59 PM
Does anyone think that Kamala will be successfully able to take out Cumo?
Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: Yes but there will be repercussions.

I don't think Cuomo is going to be wished off into the cornfield. He's an unmitigated ass who should be hanging from a lamppost for his Covid policies, but he doesn't seem to be willing to knuckle under yet. He's already made some very vague threats that he'll go scorched earth on the Democrats who support impeaching him, which could lead to Dwarf Fortress levels of hilarity.

If Kamala is pushing this, it's clear she expects to be the nominee in 2024. A shame she has less charisma than Hillary Clinton and comes off as a creepy power-tripping loon. If Biden kicks off and she takes control, expect her to fuck it up.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on March 10, 2021, 05:08:06 AM
https://notthebee.com/article/the-pro-life-evangelicals-for-biden-say-they-feel-betrayed-by-his-radical-abortion-platform

*howls of derisive laughter*

Congrats, NeverTrumpers. You helped put a drooling halfwit controlled by radleft flunkies in the White House, and they're doing their damnedest to make sure they never lose power again.

But hey, no more mean tweets!

I admit to some schadenfreude over the never Trumper conservatives getting bitten in the ass by Biden, but goddamn, what the hell did they expect?
To be honest, I have no idea.

I can understand 'I don't like Trump'. Fair enough. But 'I hate Trump so much I want to push China Joe into power'?

Holy shit, and they call Trump fans cultists?

I could understand if the idea was "Well, we're going to lose four years of ground on both conservative and liberal issues, but it's worth it to get rid of Trump."

You guys know that is not how they think, right?  o_O

Honestly, I don't know how the conservative never Trump voters think. Except that they don't like Trump.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 10, 2021, 10:27:44 AM
Honestly, I don't know how the conservative never Trump voters think. Except that they don't like Trump.
Some of it stems, in my opinion, from outsider envy. They're pissed because Trump glommed onto a serious issue -- illegal immigration and its knock-on effects, exacerbated by Democrat policies -- with both mitts, while by comparison they couldn't figure out their ass from a hole in the ground.

I mean, the RNC was trying to push Jeb Bush as a candidate. Really. What the fuck. While Trump was out there peddling America first (which, contrary to the delusions of lefties, had little to do with the America-First movement pre-WW2), the Republican establishment couldn't comprehend why Jeb was polling single digits.

And when Trump clinched the nomination, something snapped in them. How DARE the conservative base oppose them! Don't they know what's good for them?

Which is how you got grifters like Bill Kristol trying to push Egg McMuffin Evan McMullin as a third party candidate to screw the election.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on March 10, 2021, 12:50:45 PM
Anybody know how widespread Never Trump is? Feels like more of a Beltway/establishment thing than a popular movement.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 10, 2021, 01:45:39 PM
It's heavy among establishment GOP and 'uniparty' types.

But it's not nearly as widespread as they like among the voter base. That's what's killing them.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Brad on March 10, 2021, 02:43:30 PM
Listen to Hugh Hewitt in the mornings for about two weeks and you'll completely understand the "Never Trumper Beltway" mentality. Dude claims to be a staunch conservative, but says stuff all the time that I NEVER hear from anyone who isn't some jackass politician. Those people live in their own little pseudo-intellectual bubble and just cannot fathom the possibility everything they think about politics is absolutely wrong. They're stuck in the fucking 80s.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on March 11, 2021, 01:25:22 PM
https://notthebee.com/article/the-pro-life-evangelicals-for-biden-say-they-feel-betrayed-by-his-radical-abortion-platform

*howls of derisive laughter*

Congrats, NeverTrumpers. You helped put a drooling halfwit controlled by radleft flunkies in the White House, and they're doing their damnedest to make sure they never lose power again.

But hey, no more mean tweets!

Biden's speeches so far have been more cogent than Trump's speeches, and the policy you're outraged about is not a radical policy but one supported by moderates. I have sympathy for pro-lifers, but as long as pro-choice is the law of the land it's absurd to bar certain types of funding from a legal medical procedure like that out of morality which doesn't exist in that law.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on March 11, 2021, 01:29:34 PM
Listen to Hugh Hewitt in the mornings for about two weeks and you'll completely understand the "Never Trumper Beltway" mentality. Dude claims to be a staunch conservative, but says stuff all the time that I NEVER hear from anyone who isn't some jackass politician. Those people live in their own little pseudo-intellectual bubble and just cannot fathom the possibility everything they think about politics is absolutely wrong. They're stuck in the fucking 80s.

Ha, Hugh is pretty fairly representative of a lot of moderate Republicans. Particularly moderate Republicans in my part of the woods (New Mexico, Arizona, California, Oregon, Washington, Colorado, and some of Idaho). People like to pretend the Republican party is unified, but we're not and never have been. Even between pro-Trump and anti-Trump, there are many variations within those two groups. I think we all don't like Progressives, but beyond that issue there is a lot of disagreement.

Fortunately, it's a big tent.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 11, 2021, 01:45:20 PM
https://notthebee.com/article/the-pro-life-evangelicals-for-biden-say-they-feel-betrayed-by-his-radical-abortion-platform

*howls of derisive laughter*

Congrats, NeverTrumpers. You helped put a drooling halfwit controlled by radleft flunkies in the White House, and they're doing their damnedest to make sure they never lose power again.

But hey, no more mean tweets!

Biden's speeches so far have been more cogent than Trump's speeches, and the policy you're outraged about is not a radical policy but one supported by moderates. I have sympathy for pro-lifers, but as long as pro-choice is the law of the land it's absurd to bar certain types of funding from a legal medical procedure like that out of morality which doesn't exist in that law.
When he's not forgetting who his SecDef is, at any rate.

But keep deluding yourself that the demented hair-sniffer is some kind of moderate centrist and not the hand-puppet for a pack of radleftists eager to cement their grip on power.

It won't save you from them, you know.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on March 11, 2021, 05:27:36 PM
https://notthebee.com/article/the-pro-life-evangelicals-for-biden-say-they-feel-betrayed-by-his-radical-abortion-platform

*howls of derisive laughter*

Congrats, NeverTrumpers. You helped put a drooling halfwit controlled by radleft flunkies in the White House, and they're doing their damnedest to make sure they never lose power again.

But hey, no more mean tweets!

Biden's speeches so far have been more cogent than Trump's speeches, and the policy you're outraged about is not a radical policy but one supported by moderates. I have sympathy for pro-lifers, but as long as pro-choice is the law of the land it's absurd to bar certain types of funding from a legal medical procedure like that out of morality which doesn't exist in that law.
When he's not forgetting who his SecDef is, at any rate.

But keep deluding yourself that the demented hair-sniffer is some kind of moderate centrist and not the hand-puppet for a pack of radleftists eager to cement their grip on power.

It won't save you from them, you know.

Oh look, another blustering non-response from you.

I would love to hear how a Democratic president supporting the bog-standard ordinary pro-choice position (and not a radical position like partial birth abortion or anything of the sort) is somehow a "radical leftist control" position. The latest polling on the topic says three-quarters of Americans say they want to keep in place Roe v. Wade, but because you disagree with it that makes it a radical leftist position?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 11, 2021, 09:36:01 PM
https://notthebee.com/article/the-pro-life-evangelicals-for-biden-say-they-feel-betrayed-by-his-radical-abortion-platform

*howls of derisive laughter*

Congrats, NeverTrumpers. You helped put a drooling halfwit controlled by radleft flunkies in the White House, and they're doing their damnedest to make sure they never lose power again.

But hey, no more mean tweets!

Biden's speeches so far have been more cogent than Trump's speeches, and the policy you're outraged about is not a radical policy but one supported by moderates. I have sympathy for pro-lifers, but as long as pro-choice is the law of the land it's absurd to bar certain types of funding from a legal medical procedure like that out of morality which doesn't exist in that law.
When he's not forgetting who his SecDef is, at any rate.

But keep deluding yourself that the demented hair-sniffer is some kind of moderate centrist and not the hand-puppet for a pack of radleftists eager to cement their grip on power.

It won't save you from them, you know.

Oh look, another blustering non-response from you.

I would love to hear how a Democratic president supporting the bog-standard ordinary pro-choice position (and not a radical position like partial birth abortion or anything of the sort) is somehow a "radical leftist control" position. The latest polling on the topic says three-quarters of Americans say they want to keep in place Roe v. Wade, but because you disagree with it that makes it a radical leftist position?

How do you get all those dicks in your mouth, anyways? I can't believe you called yourself a 'Republican'.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on March 12, 2021, 09:51:03 PM
https://notthebee.com/article/the-pro-life-evangelicals-for-biden-say-they-feel-betrayed-by-his-radical-abortion-platform

*howls of derisive laughter*

Congrats, NeverTrumpers. You helped put a drooling halfwit controlled by radleft flunkies in the White House, and they're doing their damnedest to make sure they never lose power again.

But hey, no more mean tweets!

Biden's speeches so far have been more cogent than Trump's speeches, and the policy you're outraged about is not a radical policy but one supported by moderates. I have sympathy for pro-lifers, but as long as pro-choice is the law of the land it's absurd to bar certain types of funding from a legal medical procedure like that out of morality which doesn't exist in that law.
When he's not forgetting who his SecDef is, at any rate.

But keep deluding yourself that the demented hair-sniffer is some kind of moderate centrist and not the hand-puppet for a pack of radleftists eager to cement their grip on power.

It won't save you from them, you know.

Oh look, another blustering non-response from you.

I would love to hear how a Democratic president supporting the bog-standard ordinary pro-choice position (and not a radical position like partial birth abortion or anything of the sort) is somehow a "radical leftist control" position. The latest polling on the topic says three-quarters of Americans say they want to keep in place Roe v. Wade, but because you disagree with it that makes it a radical leftist position?

How do you get all those dicks in your mouth, anyways? I can't believe you called yourself a 'Republican'.

So personal attack and no response at all to what I said? Gotcha.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 13, 2021, 08:19:57 AM
https://notthebee.com/article/the-pro-life-evangelicals-for-biden-say-they-feel-betrayed-by-his-radical-abortion-platform

*howls of derisive laughter*

Congrats, NeverTrumpers. You helped put a drooling halfwit controlled by radleft flunkies in the White House, and they're doing their damnedest to make sure they never lose power again.

But hey, no more mean tweets!

Biden's speeches so far have been more cogent than Trump's speeches, and the policy you're outraged about is not a radical policy but one supported by moderates. I have sympathy for pro-lifers, but as long as pro-choice is the law of the land it's absurd to bar certain types of funding from a legal medical procedure like that out of morality which doesn't exist in that law.
When he's not forgetting who his SecDef is, at any rate.

But keep deluding yourself that the demented hair-sniffer is some kind of moderate centrist and not the hand-puppet for a pack of radleftists eager to cement their grip on power.

It won't save you from them, you know.

Oh look, another blustering non-response from you.

I would love to hear how a Democratic president supporting the bog-standard ordinary pro-choice position (and not a radical position like partial birth abortion or anything of the sort) is somehow a "radical leftist control" position. The latest polling on the topic says three-quarters of Americans say they want to keep in place Roe v. Wade, but because you disagree with it that makes it a radical leftist position?

How do you get all those dicks in your mouth, anyways? I can't believe you called yourself a 'Republican'.

So personal attack and no response at all to what I said? Gotcha.
I would care, but you're a CCP shill, so your opinion doesn't even matter.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on March 13, 2021, 12:19:46 PM
https://notthebee.com/article/the-pro-life-evangelicals-for-biden-say-they-feel-betrayed-by-his-radical-abortion-platform

*howls of derisive laughter*

Congrats, NeverTrumpers. You helped put a drooling halfwit controlled by radleft flunkies in the White House, and they're doing their damnedest to make sure they never lose power again.

But hey, no more mean tweets!

Biden's speeches so far have been more cogent than Trump's speeches, and the policy you're outraged about is not a radical policy but one supported by moderates. I have sympathy for pro-lifers, but as long as pro-choice is the law of the land it's absurd to bar certain types of funding from a legal medical procedure like that out of morality which doesn't exist in that law.
When he's not forgetting who his SecDef is, at any rate.

But keep deluding yourself that the demented hair-sniffer is some kind of moderate centrist and not the hand-puppet for a pack of radleftists eager to cement their grip on power.

It won't save you from them, you know.

Oh look, another blustering non-response from you.

I would love to hear how a Democratic president supporting the bog-standard ordinary pro-choice position (and not a radical position like partial birth abortion or anything of the sort) is somehow a "radical leftist control" position. The latest polling on the topic says three-quarters of Americans say they want to keep in place Roe v. Wade, but because you disagree with it that makes it a radical leftist position?

How do you get all those dicks in your mouth, anyways? I can't believe you called yourself a 'Republican'.

So personal attack and no response at all to what I said? Gotcha.
I would care, but you're a CCP shill, so your opinion doesn't even matter.

And yet you respond every time, demonstrating you do care you just don't have a real response and feel the need to save face by making a personal attack instead to distract from you not having a real response.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 14, 2021, 11:03:42 AM
https://notthebee.com/article/the-pro-life-evangelicals-for-biden-say-they-feel-betrayed-by-his-radical-abortion-platform

*howls of derisive laughter*

Congrats, NeverTrumpers. You helped put a drooling halfwit controlled by radleft flunkies in the White House, and they're doing their damnedest to make sure they never lose power again.

But hey, no more mean tweets!

Biden's speeches so far have been more cogent than Trump's speeches, and the policy you're outraged about is not a radical policy but one supported by moderates. I have sympathy for pro-lifers, but as long as pro-choice is the law of the land it's absurd to bar certain types of funding from a legal medical procedure like that out of morality which doesn't exist in that law.
When he's not forgetting who his SecDef is, at any rate.

But keep deluding yourself that the demented hair-sniffer is some kind of moderate centrist and not the hand-puppet for a pack of radleftists eager to cement their grip on power.

It won't save you from them, you know.

Oh look, another blustering non-response from you.

I would love to hear how a Democratic president supporting the bog-standard ordinary pro-choice position (and not a radical position like partial birth abortion or anything of the sort) is somehow a "radical leftist control" position. The latest polling on the topic says three-quarters of Americans say they want to keep in place Roe v. Wade, but because you disagree with it that makes it a radical leftist position?

How do you get all those dicks in your mouth, anyways? I can't believe you called yourself a 'Republican'.

So personal attack and no response at all to what I said? Gotcha.
I would care, but you're a CCP shill, so your opinion doesn't even matter.

And yet you respond every time, demonstrating you do care you just don't have a real response and feel the need to save face by making a personal attack instead to distract from you not having a real response.
And yet, you also respond, despite me blatantly being more and more obnoxious.

Fang Fang's not gonna love you long time no matter how often you post.

Meanwhile, I get to point and laugh at you.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on March 14, 2021, 11:21:27 PM
https://notthebee.com/article/the-pro-life-evangelicals-for-biden-say-they-feel-betrayed-by-his-radical-abortion-platform

*howls of derisive laughter*

Congrats, NeverTrumpers. You helped put a drooling halfwit controlled by radleft flunkies in the White House, and they're doing their damnedest to make sure they never lose power again.

But hey, no more mean tweets!

Biden's speeches so far have been more cogent than Trump's speeches, and the policy you're outraged about is not a radical policy but one supported by moderates. I have sympathy for pro-lifers, but as long as pro-choice is the law of the land it's absurd to bar certain types of funding from a legal medical procedure like that out of morality which doesn't exist in that law.
When he's not forgetting who his SecDef is, at any rate.

But keep deluding yourself that the demented hair-sniffer is some kind of moderate centrist and not the hand-puppet for a pack of radleftists eager to cement their grip on power.

It won't save you from them, you know.

Oh look, another blustering non-response from you.

I would love to hear how a Democratic president supporting the bog-standard ordinary pro-choice position (and not a radical position like partial birth abortion or anything of the sort) is somehow a "radical leftist control" position. The latest polling on the topic says three-quarters of Americans say they want to keep in place Roe v. Wade, but because you disagree with it that makes it a radical leftist position?

How do you get all those dicks in your mouth, anyways? I can't believe you called yourself a 'Republican'.

So personal attack and no response at all to what I said? Gotcha.
I would care, but you're a CCP shill, so your opinion doesn't even matter.

And yet you respond every time, demonstrating you do care you just don't have a real response and feel the need to save face by making a personal attack instead to distract from you not having a real response.
And yet, you also respond, despite me blatantly being more and more obnoxious.

Fang Fang's not gonna love you long time no matter how often you post.

Meanwhile, I get to point and laugh at you.

I do, but note I am not the one who claimed he didn't care. Of course I care, just like you do. And yeah, you're being more and more obnoxious, because you don't have an otherwise good response to my point.

And if this is entertaining to you, that's a bonus as well. I don't dislike you man, I just disagree with you. Happy to entertain if that's the best I can manage.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on March 15, 2021, 02:15:26 AM
Greetings!

I gotta say, FANG FANG is smoking hot. It is sad though, and terribly alarming, at the thought of thousands of beautiful, Chinese cupcakes are fucking American government officials and federal agents silly, while seducing these morons into treason, and betraying our country.

The fucking traitors--whether they are FBI agents, or US Congressmen--or Senators, or their bureaucratic staff members of various flavours--should be fed to marshes full of hungry alligators.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Elfdart on March 15, 2021, 09:06:54 PM
  I do not know what happened, and neither do you, as you, though you may not like it, are a pleb just like me.  I DO know that several states violated their own constitutions and did everything they could to make IDs, signature verifications or anything that could reasonably question a mailed in ballot something you just can not do in a meaningful way.   I also know that there is no justification for mass mail in voting.  If you as  a citizen can not take the time to go to a poll, you should not be able to vote.

So people who work long hours at daytime jobs, or have to watch their kids, or the elderly, or those who live in neighborhoods where you have to stand in line til Wednesday morning to cast your vote because the GOP legislature shut down polling stations in precincts with lots of Brown People shouldn't be allowed to vote?

Fuck you.

Quote
If you have real, documented health concerns you can go through all the steps to get a legit absentee ballot.  Doing an end around will make the nation ungovernable, regardless of if trump was cheated or not, because everything is perception and degree.  If enough people think something foul went on, it becomes reality to them, and at this point the numbers of people who think something dirty took place are huge. 

Nah, what makes a country ungovernable is having a large number of fucktards who won't accept the results of an election when they lose -especially when they lose because large numbers of Brown People, elderly, handicapped, working class and others different from themselves voted for the opposition.  But I guess it's easier to try to Ku Klux the vote than it is to stop running candidates who pander to white supremacists.

Quote
It will cause problems down the line.  If you have kids, you have got to be concerned with how that affects them, one way or the other.  If you dont have kids, I guess you can YOLO and keep whistling down the road of global empire you seem to be on.

OH NOES! WILL SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!?

As for the empire, you're about 175 years late on that one. It is funny though, how you became oh so concerned about American imperialism only when the coloreds showed up in record numbers to vote Il Douchebag out of office.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on March 16, 2021, 12:23:20 AM
It is funny though, how you became oh so concerned about American imperialism only when the coloreds showed up in record numbers to vote Il Douchebag out of office.

He might be suffering from dementia but god damn it Biden is still president.  Show some respect.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 16, 2021, 08:06:26 AM
It is funny though, how you became oh so concerned about American imperialism only when the coloreds showed up in record numbers to vote Il Douchebag out of office.

He might be suffering from dementia but god damn it Biden is still president.  Show some respect.
Elfdart's even dumber than he looks, considering Trump gained with every demographic except white males. Hell, he jumped twelve percentage points among Hispanic males.

But then, being a leftist means never having to worry about integrity. The WaPo just withdrew their tale about how Trump demanded the Georgia Secretary of State 'find the fraud'. Oops.

You know, that story that was used as 'evidence' in the second Sham-peachment. Will anyone be sued? Be indicted for perjury for such? Pfft.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on March 16, 2021, 08:09:36 PM
It is funny though, how you became oh so concerned about American imperialism only when the coloreds showed up in record numbers to vote Il Douchebag out of office.

He might be suffering from dementia but god damn it Biden is still president.  Show some respect.
Elfdart's even dumber than he looks, considering Trump gained with every demographic except white males. Hell, he jumped twelve percentage points among Hispanic males.

But then, being a leftist means never having to worry about integrity. The WaPo just withdrew their tale about how Trump demanded the Georgia Secretary of State 'find the fraud'. Oops.

You know, that story that was used as 'evidence' in the second Sham-peachment. Will anyone be sued? Be indicted for perjury for such? Pfft.

I dont blame Elfdart.  Look at his sources: The Washington Post has to issue a massive retraction on the lies they printed so how can Elfdart even be expected to understand what is going on.

He would have to be a genius.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: The Spaniard on March 17, 2021, 07:14:17 AM
It is funny though, how you became oh so concerned about American imperialism only when the coloreds showed up in record numbers to vote Il Douchebag out of office.

He might be suffering from dementia but god damn it Biden is still president.  Show some respect.
Elfdart's even dumber than he looks, considering Trump gained with every demographic except white males. Hell, he jumped twelve percentage points among Hispanic males.
h? Pfft.

The virtue signaling in that diatribe is hard to beat though
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: deathknight4044 on March 18, 2021, 08:08:54 AM
  I do not know what happened, and neither do you, as you, though you may not like it, are a pleb just like me.  I DO know that several states violated their own constitutions and did everything they could to make IDs, signature verifications or anything that could reasonably question a mailed in ballot something you just can not do in a meaningful way.   I also know that there is no justification for mass mail in voting.  If you as  a citizen can not take the time to go to a poll, you should not be able to vote.

So people who work long hours at daytime jobs, or have to watch their kids, or the elderly, or those who live in neighborhoods where you have to stand in line til Wednesday morning to cast your vote because the GOP legislature shut down polling stations in precincts with lots of Brown People shouldn't be allowed to vote?

Fuck you.

Quote
If you have real, documented health concerns you can go through all the steps to get a legit absentee ballot.  Doing an end around will make the nation ungovernable, regardless of if trump was cheated or not, because everything is perception and degree.  If enough people think something foul went on, it becomes reality to them, and at this point the numbers of people who think something dirty took place are huge. 

Nah, what makes a country ungovernable is having a large number of fucktards who won't accept the results of an election when they lose -especially when they lose because large numbers of Brown People, elderly, handicapped, working class and others different from themselves voted for the opposition.  But I guess it's easier to try to Ku Klux the vote than it is to stop running candidates who pander to white supremacists.

Quote
It will cause problems down the line.  If you have kids, you have got to be concerned with how that affects them, one way or the other.  If you dont have kids, I guess you can YOLO and keep whistling down the road of global empire you seem to be on.

OH NOES! WILL SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!?

As for the empire, you're about 175 years late on that one. It is funny though, how you became oh so concerned about American imperialism only when the coloreds showed up in record numbers to vote Il Douchebag out of office.

Lol is this a troll or someone who's legitimately schizophrenic? If a troll then A+ job. Even has any Schumer as a thumbnail LOL
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on March 22, 2021, 05:54:11 PM
Sidney Powell has moved to dismiss Dominion's defamation lawsuit. She argues that when she accused Dominion of being part of an election-rigging scheme with ties to Venezuela, "no reasonable person would conclude" those "were truly statements of fact"

(https://i.ibb.co/6XVS9tk/sidney.png)

Ok you ignorant fucks, were you being "not a reasonable person" when you believed her lie in this thread, or is Sidney Powell lying now when she says "no reasonable person" would believe what she said earlier? Pick your poison.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on March 22, 2021, 06:33:10 PM
Sidney Powell has moved to dismiss Dominion's defamation lawsuit. She argues that when she accused Dominion of being part of an election-rigging scheme with ties to Venezuela, "no reasonable person would conclude" those "were truly statements of fact"

(https://i.ibb.co/6XVS9tk/sidney.png)

Ok you ignorant fucks, were you being "not a reasonable person" when you believed her lie in this thread, or is Sidney Powell lying now when she says "no reasonable person" would believe what she said earlier? Pick your poison.

Huh. It was tricky to look this up - so below are the links.

Full court documents:

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/29090821/us-dominion-inc-v-powell/

Document 22, Attachment 2:

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.225699/gov.uscourts.dcd.225699.22.2_3.pdf

And as far as I can tell, it's saying exactly that. In that section, it cites prior case law saying:

Quote
While “often decr[ied]” by the media and others, “[t]he ‘low level’ of campaign tactics or rhetoric” in this nation’s national campaigns is, now more than ever, a generally accepted fact of American life. Secrist v. Harkin, 874 F.2d 1244, 1249 (8th Cir. 1989) (citation omitted); see also id. (“There may be no public context more contentious than a political campaign.”) Thus, courts “shelter strong, even outrageous political speech,” on the ground that “the ordinary reader or listener will, in the context of political debate, assume that vituperation is some form of political opinion neither demonstrably true nor demonstrably false.”

And goes on to say of Powell:

Quote
The highly charged and political nature of the statements likewise underscores their political and hence partisan nature. Powell alleged that “Democrats were trying to ‘steal the vote’
from Trump and that ‘they ha[d] developed a computer system to alter votes electronically.” Id. at ¶ 52. She and others appeared at a rally called “Stop the Steal,” which the Complaint identifies as a “Georgia political rally.” Id. at ¶ 1. She claimed that she had evidence that the election result was the “greatest crime of the century if not the life of the world.” Id. at ¶ 181(bb).

Reasonable people understand that the “language of the political arena, like the language used in labor disputes … is often vituperative, abusive and inexact.” Watts v. United States, 394 U.S. 705, 708 (1969). It is likewise a “well recognized principle that political statements are inherently prone to exaggeration and hyperbole.” Planned Parenthood of Columbia/Willamette, Inc. v. Am. Coal. of Life Activists, 244 F.3d 1007, 1009 (9th Cir. 2001). Given the highly charged and political context of the statements, it is clear that Powell was describing the facts on which she based the lawsuits she filed in support of President Trump. Indeed, Plaintiffs themselves characterize the statements at issue as “wild accusations” and “outlandish claims.” Id. at ¶¶ 2, 60, 97, 111. They are repeatedly labelled “inherently improbable” and even “impossible.” Id. at ¶¶ 110, 111, 114, 116 and 185. Such characterizations of the allegedly defamatory statements further support Defendants’ position that reasonable people would not accept such statements as fact but view them only as claims that await testing by the courts through the adversary process.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on March 22, 2021, 10:35:12 PM
Ok you ignorant fucks, were you being "not a reasonable person" when you believed her lie in this thread, or is Sidney Powell lying now when she says "no reasonable person" would believe what she said earlier? Pick your poison.

Meh, I always said that Dominion was a side show designed to cover up the real election fraud.

Shit just look at the way that California wants to change its voter signature policy between the Presidential Election and  the Gavin Newsome recall.

And you dumb fucks are worried about the "Venezuelans"
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 22, 2021, 10:40:42 PM
Ok you ignorant fucks, were you being "not a reasonable person" when you believed her lie in this thread, or is Sidney Powell lying now when she says "no reasonable person" would believe what she said earlier? Pick your poison.

Meh, I always said that Dominion was a side show designed to cover up the real election fraud.

Shit just look at the way that California wants to change its voter signature policy between the Presidential Election and  the Gavin Newsome recall.

And you dumb fucks are worried about the "Venezuelans"
Don't mind Misty, he's just chasing more of that sweet Chinese renminbis.

In all seriousness, though, welcome to how legal standards work in speech, which may or may not adhere to your expectations.

HR1 is the real prize, I suspect. They pass that, they legalize everyone and their mother to vote early, vote often, starting at 16 (you can't buy a beer or enter into a contract, but by God you can vote!).

But hey, Orange Man Bad, no more mean tweets amirite?

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Elfdart on March 22, 2021, 11:31:06 PM
Elfdart's even dumber than he looks, considering Trump gained with every demographic except white males.


Sweet Baby Jesus you're a moron. When you lose the black female vote by 90 POINTS as Il Douchebag did in 2016 (Hillary won 94%, Trump 4%), but only lose to Biden by 81 POINTS in 2020 (Biden 90%, Trump 9%), you haven't "gained" Jack Shit. The same holds for other categories:

(https://i.insider.com/5fb550be7b94e80011de9baf?width=700&format=jpeg&auto=webp)

So feel free to throw one shoulder out of joint patting yourself on the back because Trump got a slight increase among minority voters, and throw the other out of joint furiously masturbating because Biden "only" got 79% of the black male vote while Hillary got 82%. If Republicans in office thought for an instant that they would be competitive among minority voters, they wouldn't be trying so hard to Ku Klux the vote before the 2022 elections. 

Quote
Hell, he jumped twelve percentage points among Hispanic males.

Evidence, please.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on March 23, 2021, 12:11:02 AM
Even with their own evidence Trump gained in every demographic.

Good old El Douchbag indeed.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on March 23, 2021, 01:13:39 AM
Meh, I always said that Dominion was a side show designed to cover up the real election fraud.

Shit just look at the way that California wants to change its voter signature policy between the Presidential Election and  the Gavin Newsome recall.

And you dumb fucks are worried about the "Venezuelans"

I don't understand who you think did what here. When figures like Trump, Powell, McInerney, and others accused Dominion of fraudulently changing votes -- what was happening? Who got them to help cover up the real election fraud, and how? Does anyone in the bigger political picture realize about this side show cover-up?

Also, who are the dumb fucks you're saying are worried about the Venezuelans? Someone in this thread?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on March 23, 2021, 05:37:23 AM
Ok you ignorant fucks, were you being "not a reasonable person" when you believed her lie in this thread, or is Sidney Powell lying now when she says "no reasonable person" would believe what she said earlier? Pick your poison.

Meh, I always said that Dominion was a side show designed to cover up the real election fraud.

Shit just look at the way that California wants to change its voter signature policy between the Presidential Election and  the Gavin Newsome recall.

And you dumb fucks are worried about the "Venezuelans"
Ah, still posting in sarcastic black font, eh?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on March 23, 2021, 02:02:06 PM
Ok you ignorant fucks, were you being "not a reasonable person" when you believed her lie in this thread, or is Sidney Powell lying now when she says "no reasonable person" would believe what she said earlier? Pick your poison.

Meh, I always said that Dominion was a side show designed to cover up the real election fraud.

Shit just look at the way that California wants to change its voter signature policy between the Presidential Election and  the Gavin Newsome recall.

And you dumb fucks are worried about the "Venezuelans"

I reviewed the first thread which was locked. You repeatedly supported the Dominion claims and Sidney's claims specifically. You were gloating about them. I don't care what other fraud you were bitching about, it was very clear you fell for her bullshit. And that was after it came out she was shady and her "witness" was bullshit.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on March 23, 2021, 02:02:50 PM
Ok you ignorant fucks, were you being "not a reasonable person" when you believed her lie in this thread, or is Sidney Powell lying now when she says "no reasonable person" would believe what she said earlier? Pick your poison.

Meh, I always said that Dominion was a side show designed to cover up the real election fraud.

Shit just look at the way that California wants to change its voter signature policy between the Presidential Election and  the Gavin Newsome recall.

And you dumb fucks are worried about the "Venezuelans"
Don't mind Misty, he's just chasing more of that sweet Chinese renminbis.

In all seriousness, though, welcome to how legal standards work in speech, which may or may not adhere to your expectations.

HR1 is the real prize, I suspect. They pass that, they legalize everyone and their mother to vote early, vote often, starting at 16 (you can't buy a beer or enter into a contract, but by God you can vote!).

But hey, Orange Man Bad, no more mean tweets amirite?

If I search that other thread which was locked, will I find you supporting Sidney Powell's claims too?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 23, 2021, 03:36:04 PM
Ok you ignorant fucks, were you being "not a reasonable person" when you believed her lie in this thread, or is Sidney Powell lying now when she says "no reasonable person" would believe what she said earlier? Pick your poison.

Meh, I always said that Dominion was a side show designed to cover up the real election fraud.

Shit just look at the way that California wants to change its voter signature policy between the Presidential Election and  the Gavin Newsome recall.

And you dumb fucks are worried about the "Venezuelans"
Don't mind Misty, he's just chasing more of that sweet Chinese renminbis.

In all seriousness, though, welcome to how legal standards work in speech, which may or may not adhere to your expectations.

HR1 is the real prize, I suspect. They pass that, they legalize everyone and their mother to vote early, vote often, starting at 16 (you can't buy a beer or enter into a contract, but by God you can vote!).

But hey, Orange Man Bad, no more mean tweets amirite?

If I search that other thread which was locked, will I find you supporting Sidney Powell's claims too?
Oddly, I don't seem to have directly said anything of the sort, Mr. Swalwell. I did state I found the election results to be extremely questionable particularly considering the circumstances and the behavior of Democrats in key areas.

Now go chase those asspats, little boy.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on March 23, 2021, 03:44:32 PM
Meh, I always said that Dominion was a side show designed to cover up the real election fraud.

Shit just look at the way that California wants to change its voter signature policy between the Presidential Election and  the Gavin Newsome recall.

And you dumb fucks are worried about the "Venezuelans"

I don't understand who you think did what here. When figures like Trump, Powell, McInerney, and others accused Dominion of fraudulently changing votes -- what was happening? Who got them to help cover up the real election fraud, and how? Does anyone in the bigger political picture realize about this side show cover-up?

Also, who are the dumb fucks you're saying are worried about the Venezuelans? Someone in this thread?

Do you have any evidence that Trump accused Dominion of fraudulently changing votes?

Sounds like if he did then he would be being sued by Dominion right now.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on March 23, 2021, 05:47:10 PM
Meh, I always said that Dominion was a side show designed to cover up the real election fraud.

Shit just look at the way that California wants to change its voter signature policy between the Presidential Election and  the Gavin Newsome recall.

And you dumb fucks are worried about the "Venezuelans"

I don't understand who you think did what here. When figures like Trump, Powell, McInerney, and others accused Dominion of fraudulently changing votes -- what was happening? Who got them to help cover up the real election fraud, and how? Does anyone in the bigger political picture realize about this side show cover-up?

Also, who are the dumb fucks you're saying are worried about the Venezuelans? Someone in this thread?

Do you have any evidence that Trump accused Dominion of fraudulently changing votes?

Sounds like if he did then he would be being sued by Dominion right now.

Here are some of his posts on the subject:

Quote
“REPORT: DOMINION DELETED 2.7 MILLION TRUMP VOTES NATIONWIDE. DATA ANALYSIS FINDS 221,000 PENNSYLVANIA VOTES SWITCHED FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP TO BIDEN. 941,000 TRUMP VOTES DELETED. STATES USING DOMINION VOTING SYSTEMS SWITCHED 435,000 VOTES FROM TRUMP TO BIDEN.” @ChanelRion @OANN
Quote
Heartwarming to see all of the tremendous support out there, especially the organic Rallies that are springing up all over the Country, including a big one on Saturday in D.C. I may even try to stop by and say hello. This Election was Rigged, from Dominion all the way up & down!
Quote
He won because the Election was Rigged. NO VOTE WATCHERS OR OBSERVERS allowed, vote tabulated by a Radical Left privately owned company, Dominion, with a bad reputation & bum equipment that couldn’t even qualify for Texas (which I won by a lot!), the Fake & Silent Media, & more!
Quote
RT @1776Stonewall: Sidney Powell: 'Dominion machines engineered by China, Venezuela, Cuba'
Quote
“Study: Dominion Machines shifted 2-3% of Trump Votes to Biden. Far more votes than needed to sway election.” Florida, Ohio, Texas and many other states were won by even greater margins than projected. Did just as well with Swing States, but bad things happened. @OANN

Source: https://www.thetrumparchive.com/?searchbox=%22dominion%22

I think Dominion probably didn't sue him because it's harder to hold people liable for tweets than it is to hold them liable for court filings.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on March 23, 2021, 10:10:02 PM
Meh, I always said that Dominion was a side show designed to cover up the real election fraud.

Shit just look at the way that California wants to change its voter signature policy between the Presidential Election and  the Gavin Newsome recall.

And you dumb fucks are worried about the "Venezuelans"

I don't understand who you think did what here. When figures like Trump, Powell, McInerney, and others accused Dominion of fraudulently changing votes -- what was happening? Who got them to help cover up the real election fraud, and how? Does anyone in the bigger political picture realize about this side show cover-up?

Also, who are the dumb fucks you're saying are worried about the Venezuelans? Someone in this thread?

Do you have any evidence that Trump accused Dominion of fraudulently changing votes?

Sounds like if he did then he would be being sued by Dominion right now.

Here are some of his posts on the subject:

Quote
“REPORT: DOMINION DELETED 2.7 MILLION TRUMP VOTES NATIONWIDE. DATA ANALYSIS FINDS 221,000 PENNSYLVANIA VOTES SWITCHED FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP TO BIDEN. 941,000 TRUMP VOTES DELETED. STATES USING DOMINION VOTING SYSTEMS SWITCHED 435,000 VOTES FROM TRUMP TO BIDEN.” @ChanelRion @OANN
Quote
Heartwarming to see all of the tremendous support out there, especially the organic Rallies that are springing up all over the Country, including a big one on Saturday in D.C. I may even try to stop by and say hello. This Election was Rigged, from Dominion all the way up & down!
Quote
He won because the Election was Rigged. NO VOTE WATCHERS OR OBSERVERS allowed, vote tabulated by a Radical Left privately owned company, Dominion, with a bad reputation & bum equipment that couldn’t even qualify for Texas (which I won by a lot!), the Fake & Silent Media, & more!
Quote
RT @1776Stonewall: Sidney Powell: 'Dominion machines engineered by China, Venezuela, Cuba'
Quote
“Study: Dominion Machines shifted 2-3% of Trump Votes to Biden. Far more votes than needed to sway election.” Florida, Ohio, Texas and many other states were won by even greater margins than projected. Did just as well with Swing States, but bad things happened. @OANN

Source: https://www.thetrumparchive.com/?searchbox=%22dominion%22

I think Dominion probably didn't sue him because it's harder to hold people liable for tweets than it is to hold them liable for court filings.

Ah, I see. So Trump did not actually file any law suits alleging any fraud regarding Dominion machines but did complain about them on twitter.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Brad on March 24, 2021, 09:31:54 AM
Oh will you look at that, fake news RE: Powell/Dominion lawsuit nonsense...

https://www.kraken-wood.com/pdf/HK.MEDIA.STATEMENT.3.23.21.pdf
https://www.sidneypowell.com/

At this point if you're dumb enough to believe anything the MSM says you probably should just shoot yourself and get it over with.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 24, 2021, 09:33:47 AM
Oh will you look at that, fake news RE: Powell/Dominion lawsuit nonsense...

https://www.kraken-wood.com/pdf/HK.MEDIA.STATEMENT.3.23.21.pdf
https://www.sidneypowell.com/

At this point if you're dumb enough to believe anything the MSM says you probably should just shoot yourself and get it over with.
Oof. I suspected that was the angle. As usual, the media just can't help but lie.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on March 24, 2021, 11:24:15 AM
Oh will you look at that, fake news RE: Powell/Dominion lawsuit nonsense...

https://www.kraken-wood.com/pdf/HK.MEDIA.STATEMENT.3.23.21.pdf
https://www.sidneypowell.com/

At this point if you're dumb enough to believe anything the MSM says you probably should just shoot yourself and get it over with.
Oof. I suspected that was the angle. As usual, the media just can't help but lie.

Personally, I literally neither posted nor read anything from the mainstream media on this point. After Mistwell posted his quote, he provided no sources, so I went and looked up the court documents on my own -- as part of my own fact-checking. I posted the link to the court documents earlier, and cited exactly where I was quoting from.

Go read the court documents yourself. I posted exactly what was from there.

Full court documents:

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/29090821/us-dominion-inc-v-powell/

Document 22, Attachment 2 - from Sidney Powell's lawyers:

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.225699/gov.uscourts.dcd.225699.22.2_3.pdf

The section starts on page 38.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on March 24, 2021, 01:38:54 PM
Oh will you look at that, fake news RE: Powell/Dominion lawsuit nonsense...

https://www.kraken-wood.com/pdf/HK.MEDIA.STATEMENT.3.23.21.pdf
https://www.sidneypowell.com/

At this point if you're dumb enough to believe anything the MSM says you probably should just shoot yourself and get it over with.

I am not sure if you're just an idiot, an asshole trolling, or both. Based on experience, both. JKhim provided the ENTIRE CONTEXT over the past couple days, not just links to articles, after I had posted a direct quote from the documents she filed, and not an article. The context is clear and correct. Nobody was posting anything fake. Unquestionable she is asserting the defense that no reasonable person would have believed what she said. The full context was actually worse than that simple statement. Again, not MSM, we pulled from the court documents she filed, directly, with full context.

Powell is basically saying under oath that only an idiot would have believed her words, and then not under oath she is saying "hey idiots, it must be the evil MSM misconstruing the documents I just filed under oath don't believe it!" and the idiots, who she just called idiots for ever believing her words, are again believing her words rather than the literal words she wrote under oath that only an idiot would believe her words.

But don't trust me or JKhim or Sidney or any other link, just fucking read the document she filed under oath yourself and see what you think she's saying. I don't think you can come away still claiming this is just the big bad MSM misconstruing what she's saying.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on March 24, 2021, 02:25:06 PM
But don't trust me or JKhim or Sidney or any other link, just fucking read the document she filed under oath yourself and see what you think she's saying. I don't think you can come away still claiming this is just the big bad MSM misconstruing what she's saying.

Minor correction - this is not testimony that Powell swore under oath. The document is written by her lawyers on her behalf - Lawrence J. Joseph, Howard Kleinhendler, and Jesse R. Binnall. I presume that they are trying to give the best defense to their client in making this argument.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 24, 2021, 03:50:40 PM
Meanwhile, grandstanding about the January 6th peaceful protest doesn't impress some folks.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/judge-surprised-ex-top-prosecutors-speculation-media-capitol-riot-sedition-charges

You know, I got into a bit of a slapfight with Zak over my hardline assertion that when the lawyers come out, it's time to be publicly quiet and let your motions and arguments in court do the talking (granted, my wording was 'shut the fuck up', although it wasn't specifically directed at him).

That also goes for prosecutors. But the speculation I've seen is that Sherwin doesn't expect many convictions -- so the plan is to drag it out and use the 'process is the punishment' tactic.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on March 24, 2021, 05:30:23 PM
The Rachel Maddow defense is unbeatable.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 25, 2021, 08:54:05 AM
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-capitol-arrests-justice/amid-setbacks-prosecutors-abandon-some-claims-in-u-s-capitol-riot-cases-idUSKBN2BG30C

Womp womp.

Still, this won't be about getting actual convictions, I think. They'll drag it out as long as they can. The process is the punishment.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on March 25, 2021, 06:35:01 PM
You know, I got into a bit of a slapfight with Zak over my hardline assertion that when the lawyers come out, it's time to be publicly quiet and let your motions and arguments in court do the talking (granted, my wording was 'shut the fuck up', although it wasn't specifically directed at him).

That also goes for prosecutors. But the speculation I've seen is that Sherwin doesn't expect many convictions -- so the plan is to drag it out and use the 'process is the punishment' tactic.

I tend to agree about being quieter publicly and letting court actions speak. Far too much goes to the court of public opinion -- where tons of people have a definite opinion about what the outcome of a given court case should be despite not hearing all the evidence that a jury has. There is a place for press to cover ongoing trials, but in general, I think many people are quick to judge on complex trials without crucial details. (And of course, their opinion is usually governed by their politics.)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on March 26, 2021, 11:37:34 AM
Dominion now suing FoxNews over their claims abou Dominion during the election.  (https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-donald-trump-media-lawsuits-elections-912eea8e168f95d51dec02da78ac2760)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on March 29, 2021, 08:41:45 PM
Just listening to the Eric Munchel and Lisa Marie Eisenhart case review.

Man, the US court system is super corrupt, no wonder the Chinese dont give a fuck about what the US says regarding their genocide. 

It makes you look like laughing stocks.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/eric-munchel-lisa-eisenhart-released-riot/2021/03/29/7c9eacd6-90bb-11eb-a74e-1f4cf89fd948_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/eric-munchel-lisa-eisenhart-released-riot/2021/03/29/7c9eacd6-90bb-11eb-a74e-1f4cf89fd948_story.html)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 30, 2021, 08:18:16 AM
Just listening to the Eric Munchel and Lisa Marie Eisenhart case review.

Man, the US court system is super corrupt, no wonder the Chinese dont give a fuck about what the US says regarding their genocide. 

It makes you look like laughing stocks.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/eric-munchel-lisa-eisenhart-released-riot/2021/03/29/7c9eacd6-90bb-11eb-a74e-1f4cf89fd948_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/eric-munchel-lisa-eisenhart-released-riot/2021/03/29/7c9eacd6-90bb-11eb-a74e-1f4cf89fd948_story.html)
That WaPo article couldn't be more slanted if they'd written 'Sponsored by the DNC' at the top.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ogre on April 26, 2021, 11:11:35 AM
Just listening to the Eric Munchel and Lisa Marie Eisenhart case review.

Man, the US court system is super corrupt, no wonder the Chinese dont give a fuck about what the US says regarding their genocide. 

It makes you look like laughing stocks.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/eric-munchel-lisa-eisenhart-released-riot/2021/03/29/7c9eacd6-90bb-11eb-a74e-1f4cf89fd948_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/eric-munchel-lisa-eisenhart-released-riot/2021/03/29/7c9eacd6-90bb-11eb-a74e-1f4cf89fd948_story.html)
That WaPo article couldn't be more slanted if they'd written 'Sponsored by the DNC' at the top.

Well considering the WP is now under direct control of Jeff Bezos, I'd consider all news from them as far left propaganda. Elon tweets directly at the WP as puppets for their master.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Wntrlnd on April 26, 2021, 12:21:57 PM
Just listening to the Eric Munchel and Lisa Marie Eisenhart case review.

Man, the US court system is super corrupt, no wonder the Chinese dont give a fuck about what the US says regarding their genocide. 

It makes you look like laughing stocks.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/eric-munchel-lisa-eisenhart-released-riot/2021/03/29/7c9eacd6-90bb-11eb-a74e-1f4cf89fd948_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/eric-munchel-lisa-eisenhart-released-riot/2021/03/29/7c9eacd6-90bb-11eb-a74e-1f4cf89fd948_story.html)
That WaPo article couldn't be more slanted if they'd written 'Sponsored by the DNC' at the top.

Well considering the WP is now under direct control of Jeff Bezos, I'd consider all news from them as far left propaganda. Elon tweets directly at the WP as puppets for their master.

Did you just call Scrooge McDuck a communist?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on April 26, 2021, 02:28:36 PM
Just listening to the Eric Munchel and Lisa Marie Eisenhart case review.

Man, the US court system is super corrupt, no wonder the Chinese dont give a fuck about what the US says regarding their genocide. 

It makes you look like laughing stocks.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/eric-munchel-lisa-eisenhart-released-riot/2021/03/29/7c9eacd6-90bb-11eb-a74e-1f4cf89fd948_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/eric-munchel-lisa-eisenhart-released-riot/2021/03/29/7c9eacd6-90bb-11eb-a74e-1f4cf89fd948_story.html)
That WaPo article couldn't be more slanted if they'd written 'Sponsored by the DNC' at the top.

Well considering the WP is now under direct control of Jeff Bezos, I'd consider all news from them as far left propaganda. Elon tweets directly at the WP as puppets for their master.

Did you just call Scrooge McDuck a communist?

No, Scrooge McDuck a totalitarian who is using radical leftists/socialists/communists as 'useful idiots.'
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: This Guy on April 26, 2021, 03:18:26 PM
when I think of leftists I definitely think of how much they all fuckin love Jeff Bezos and would definitely not string him up if left alone with him
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Eirikrautha on April 26, 2021, 05:34:05 PM
when I think of leftists I definitely think of how much they all fuckin love Jeff Bezos and would definitely not string him up if left alone with him
Yet they all accept his money. 

They only hate him because they wish they were him.  All radical leftism is based in jealousy and whining...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: This Guy on April 26, 2021, 05:45:39 PM
when I think of leftists I definitely think of how much they all fuckin love Jeff Bezos and would definitely not string him up if left alone with him
Yet they all accept his money. 

They only hate him because they wish they were him.  All radical leftism is based in jealousy and whining...

if Bezos wants to give them money to buy the rope by, uh, whatever it is he's doing that makes them accept their money, then that's on him. all kinks are valid.

it's cool though, radical conservatism is based in rampant pedophilia so i'll take jealousy and whining any day.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on April 26, 2021, 06:02:59 PM
when I think of leftists I definitely think of how much they all fuckin love Jeff Bezos and would definitely not string him up if left alone with him
Yet they all accept his money. 

They only hate him because they wish they were him.  All radical leftism is based in jealousy and whining...

if Bezos wants to give them money to buy the rope by, uh, whatever it is he's doing that makes them accept their money, then that's on him. all kinks are valid.

it's cool though, radical conservatism is based in rampant pedophilia so i'll take jealousy and whining any day.
What passes as radical conservatism these days?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: This Guy on April 26, 2021, 06:08:19 PM
when I think of leftists I definitely think of how much they all fuckin love Jeff Bezos and would definitely not string him up if left alone with him
Yet they all accept his money. 

They only hate him because they wish they were him.  All radical leftism is based in jealousy and whining...

if Bezos wants to give them money to buy the rope by, uh, whatever it is he's doing that makes them accept their money, then that's on him. all kinks are valid.

it's cool though, radical conservatism is based in rampant pedophilia so i'll take jealousy and whining any day.
What passes as radical conservatism these days?

environmentalism, meritocracy, high taxation on the middle class, and not going to war in the middle east.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on April 26, 2021, 06:11:26 PM
when I think of leftists I definitely think of how much they all fuckin love Jeff Bezos and would definitely not string him up if left alone with him
Yet they all accept his money. 

They only hate him because they wish they were him.  All radical leftism is based in jealousy and whining...

if Bezos wants to give them money to buy the rope by, uh, whatever it is he's doing that makes them accept their money, then that's on him. all kinks are valid.

it's cool though, radical conservatism is based in rampant pedophilia so i'll take jealousy and whining any day.
What passes as radical conservatism these days?

environmentalism, meritocracy, high taxation on the middle class, and not going to war in the middle east.

  Odd connection to pedophilia.   
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: This Guy on April 26, 2021, 06:17:54 PM
when I think of leftists I definitely think of how much they all fuckin love Jeff Bezos and would definitely not string him up if left alone with him
Yet they all accept his money. 

They only hate him because they wish they were him.  All radical leftism is based in jealousy and whining...

if Bezos wants to give them money to buy the rope by, uh, whatever it is he's doing that makes them accept their money, then that's on him. all kinks are valid.

it's cool though, radical conservatism is based in rampant pedophilia so i'll take jealousy and whining any day.
What passes as radical conservatism these days?

environmentalism, meritocracy, high taxation on the middle class, and not going to war in the middle east.

  Odd connection to pedophilia.

it is odd, but there you have it. All supported by rampant pedophilia. why you think we never allowed to see Barron in public?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on April 26, 2021, 07:40:54 PM
when I think...

Why don't we go ahead and limit the conversation to things that will actually occur before the heat death of the universe.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: This Guy on April 26, 2021, 07:42:06 PM
when I think...

Why don't we go ahead and limit the conversation to things that will actually occur before the heat death of the universe.

Too late the thought already happened, sorry if it's too advanced for you. all mind can look like no mind
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on April 26, 2021, 09:44:14 PM
why you think we never allowed to see Barron in public?

Obviously because Barron Harkonnen lives in the future.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: This Guy on April 26, 2021, 09:53:10 PM
why you think we never allowed to see Barron in public?

Obviously because Barron Harkonnen lives in the future.

That's what you'd think but it turns out Dune was a psy-op.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on April 26, 2021, 10:38:34 PM
why you think we never allowed to see Barron in public?

Obviously because Barron Harkonnen lives in the future.

That's what you'd think but it turns out Dune was a psy-op.

Thats not what my CIA controller tells me.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: This Guy on April 26, 2021, 11:43:58 PM
why you think we never allowed to see Barron in public?

Obviously because Barron Harkonnen lives in the future.

That's what you'd think but it turns out Dune was a psy-op.

Thats not what my CIA controller tells me.

real talk the CIA doesn't even know how to coup a government right i wouldn't call them great intel sources.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: DocJones on April 27, 2021, 08:22:44 PM
What passes as radical conservatism these days?
I'm thinking "radical conservatism" is an oxymoron.
Unless you're thinking of Mencious Moldbug's "Hey let's give feudalism another go".
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: This Guy on April 28, 2021, 12:19:05 AM
What passes as radical conservatism these days?
I'm thinking "radical conservatism" is an oxymoron.
Unless you're thinking of Mencious Moldbug's "Hey let's give feudalism another go".

hahaha moldbug, what a tool. Who looks at Ignactius Reilly and thinks "that guy's got ideas"
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Elfdart on May 01, 2021, 02:31:26 AM
Just listening to the Eric Munchel and Lisa Marie Eisenhart case review.

Man, the US court system is super corrupt, no wonder the Chinese dont give a fuck about what the US says regarding their genocide. 

It makes you look like laughing stocks.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/eric-munchel-lisa-eisenhart-released-riot/2021/03/29/7c9eacd6-90bb-11eb-a74e-1f4cf89fd948_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/eric-munchel-lisa-eisenhart-released-riot/2021/03/29/7c9eacd6-90bb-11eb-a74e-1f4cf89fd948_story.html)
That WaPo article couldn't be more slanted if they'd written 'Sponsored by the DNC' at the top.

Well considering the WP is now under direct control of Jeff Bezos, I'd consider all news from them as far left propaganda. Elon tweets directly at the WP as puppets for their master.

That's because you're severely retarded.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on May 12, 2021, 02:16:02 PM
For those who support claims of election fraud, has there been any additional evidence in the last few months?

I'm seeing some news about the election audit in Maricopa County Arizona, where they're searching for things like fraudulent ballot paper - but it sounds like they haven't turned up anything. What would be the best source to go to for the strongest claims?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on May 12, 2021, 02:42:27 PM
Greetings!

I think it is ridiculous to believe that Biden and Kamala got more votes than "Black Jesus" Obama. ;D

I also think it is absurd to believe that Biden could legitimately win an election while essentially never leaving his basement.

The few public appearances that Biden made, he couldn't fill a bus with supporters.

As anyone should remember, KAMALA was the first candidate to drop her campaign, as she only attracted something like 1% of support. She was a dismal failure. DEMOCRATS that were former staffers and supporters of KAMALA noted how her campaign was full of lack of leadership, drama, infighting, and bullshit for days. Kamala was a pathetic failure--according to DEMOCRAT insiders.

But somehow, Kamala was this huge asset in winning the presidential campaign with Biden?????

There are a set of like 19 bellweather counties--that have predicted the presidential victor accurately for 50 or 100 years. Trump won like 18 out of 19 of these critical counties. Somehow though, Biden won? Contrary to every political metric of success over the last 100 years of American political life? According to essential attributes for political campaigns to be successful--even by DEMOCRAT standards--as well as Republican--Biden and Kamala failed at virtually all of them.

But somehow, all these good liberals and the MSM want Americans to believe that Biden got 80 million votes? ;D

Forget FDR. Forget Jack Kennedy. Forget Reagan. Forget Clinton, and Obama.

Biden and Kamala are the greatest political leaders of the last 100 years of American political history. ;D

It's all bullshit. From top to bottom, there is so much going wrong with the whole situation.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on May 12, 2021, 02:55:11 PM
It's all bullshit. From top to bottom, there is so much going wrong with the whole situation.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Or, one could say, the claims are all bullshit from top to bottom.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 12, 2021, 03:33:16 PM
The fascinating part is the utterly visceral reaction we've been seeing to the audit being performed in Maricopa County, AZ.

Perkins-Coie (a Democrat legal hatchetman firm) rolled in. They tried to get the audit delayed. The judge offered to do so if they put up a bond against the cost of such, and they balked. Now there are Phoenix Police aircraft doing regular overflights of the Arizona Veterans Memorial Coliseum where the audit is occurring.

What's the matter, Dems? If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear, right? Isn't that what they chant when people raised eyebrows over questionable FBI surveillance?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on May 12, 2021, 04:03:34 PM
For those who support claims of election fraud, has there been any additional evidence in the last few months?

I'm seeing some news about the election audit in Maricopa County Arizona, where they're searching for things like fraudulent ballot paper - but it sounds like they haven't turned up anything. What would be the best source to go to for the strongest claims?

The company doing the audit in Arizona said during the interview when they started that they weren't going to release anything other than basic 'we have counted this many ballots/we are now examining absentee ballots/etc.) until the audit was done.

The only thing coming out is more circumstantial evidence through the fight between the state senate and the secretary of state/election board...things like the recently refusal to turn over routers/passwords and claiming that the board did not have admin access to the machines and only dominion did.

The interview the guy running the audit gave at the beginning went over all the procedures. Off the top of my head I remember...

1. Wrong paper/watermark
2. Machine filled ballots
3. Duplicated ballots
4. Invalid absentee ballots (not folded, so never mailed/dropped in box)

The one in NH is looking to go to a forensic audit, but there is a fight going on about it.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Brad on May 12, 2021, 04:11:16 PM
This whole thing is like getting a pass called complete because you paid off the refs, claiming the receivers feet were CLEARLY inbounds, but flipping the fuck out when someone suggests you view the replay just to be sure. If he had both feet down, why wouldn't you run the video 1000x just to make the naysayers STFU? Oh yeah...because it's racist or something because the receiver was black. Is that how we do it now?

Pretty sure the current narrative is now, "Well it's too late to do anything about the rampant cheating!" Keep moving those goalposts, faggots.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on May 12, 2021, 04:38:25 PM
For those who support claims of election fraud, has there been any additional evidence in the last few months?

I'm seeing some news about the election audit in Maricopa County Arizona, where they're searching for things like fraudulent ballot paper - but it sounds like they haven't turned up anything. What would be the best source to go to for the strongest claims?

jhkim, you have been following this election debacle closely so you would be able to tell me who audited the signature match.

I mean that has been debunked, right?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Zelen on May 12, 2021, 04:49:06 PM
I wouldn't expect any results for another month or two, if at all. Based on the ongoing litigation and involvement of the federal secret police, I strongly suspect the findings will not be permitted to be released publicly.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on May 12, 2021, 04:59:06 PM
This whole thing is like getting a pass called complete because you paid off the refs, claiming the receivers feet were CLEARLY inbounds, but flipping the fuck out when someone suggests you view the replay just to be sure. If he had both feet down, why wouldn't you run the video 1000x just to make the naysayers STFU? Oh yeah...because it's racist or something because the receiver was black. Is that how we do it now?

Pretty sure the current narrative is now, "Well it's too late to do anything about the rampant cheating!" Keep moving those goalposts, faggots.

Greetings!

Yeah, Brad, the Marxist Democrats are such frauds. Marxist teachers and college professors, filthy, diseased Marxist politicians and bureaucrats, SJW's, BLM, Antifa, they are all scum seeking to destroy our country. I hope the day come when they can all choke on some white phosphorous. ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on May 12, 2021, 07:28:52 PM
For those who support claims of election fraud, has there been any additional evidence in the last few months?

I'm seeing some news about the election audit in Maricopa County Arizona, where they're searching for things like fraudulent ballot paper - but it sounds like they haven't turned up anything. What would be the best source to go to for the strongest claims?

Update on Antrim County, MI.

1. Apparently someone connected a laptop to the intranet that the machines were hooked to allowing access over the web and left it connected during the election.
2. Unnecessary database management software was added to the machines just before the election.
3. The log data was intentionally deleted manually to hide whoever logged in...the big deal here is that the log files from previous elections are still on the machines, only the Nov 3, 2020 access logs are gone...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Brad on May 13, 2021, 09:49:59 AM
Imagine being so confident about the election results that you delete a database with those results before you give the machines to the auditors. Just imagine...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: KingCheops on May 13, 2021, 10:23:11 AM
Imagine being so confident about the election results that you delete a database with those results before you give the machines to the auditors. Just imagine...

To the point where you actually violate a subpoena and election laws.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 13, 2021, 11:57:36 AM
Imagine being so confident about the election results that you delete a database with those results before you give the machines to the auditors. Just imagine...

To the point where you actually violate a subpoena and election laws.
In most cases, spoilation of evidence is de facto and de jure a tacit admission that the evidence would not go in your favor.

I grant this is not 'most cases', but I cannot see how deletion of data does not look any way other than bad.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on May 13, 2021, 12:28:38 PM
I think it is ridiculous to believe that Biden and Kamala got more votes than "Black Jesus" Obama. ;D

I also think it is absurd to believe that Biden could legitimately win an election while essentially never leaving his basement.

The few public appearances that Biden made, he couldn't fill a bus with supporters.
I think it's quite possible. The 2020 election seems to have been 100% a referendum on Trump. People went to the polls in record numbers because they loved him, or because they hated him. I don't think Biden or Kamala had any effect on the results, because nobody voted for either, they just voted against Trump.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on May 13, 2021, 12:28:58 PM
For those who support claims of election fraud, has there been any additional evidence in the last few months?

I'm seeing some news about the election audit in Maricopa County Arizona, where they're searching for things like fraudulent ballot paper - but it sounds like they haven't turned up anything. What would be the best source to go to for the strongest claims?

Update on Antrim County, MI.

1. Apparently someone connected a laptop to the intranet that the machines were hooked to allowing access over the web and left it connected during the election.
2. Unnecessary database management software was added to the machines just before the election.
3. The log data was intentionally deleted manually to hide whoever logged in...the big deal here is that the log files from previous elections are still on the machines, only the Nov 3, 2020 access logs are gone...

I see that is the claim in the lawsuit, but I note that Antrim County also performed a hand recount of the results, which did not reveal any such fraud.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/12/17/antrim-county-hand-tally-certified-election-results/3937898001/

This alone is sufficient to reasonably prove the election results. Regarding the voting machine tallies... As I understand it, those are claims being made in the lawsuit by security analyst Russell Ramsland. However, Ramsland is also the one who made this affidavit,

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.gand.283580/gov.uscourts.gand.283580.7.1_2.pdf

That affidavit has easily verifiable falsehoods, notably on page 3, where it reports on a bunch of Michigan counties that simply do not exist. Given this affidavit, I would consider Ramsland to clearly not be a believable witness.

So how much of these claims are simply on the word of Russell Ramsland, and how much is verified by others (and if so, how reliable are they)?

EDITED TO ADD: The Michigan state investigation into the preliminary miscount in Antrim County was released on March 26. It includes a response to Ramsland's allegations, starting on page 40 of the report.

https://ftt-uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/29140718/Antrim.pdf
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Tubesock Army on May 13, 2021, 04:10:36 PM
It's all bullshit. From top to bottom, there is so much going wrong with the whole situation.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Or, one could say, the claims are all bullshit from top to bottom.

Ah, yes, the old "I have a feeling" standard of irrefutable proof...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on May 13, 2021, 06:08:48 PM
It's all bullshit. From top to bottom, there is so much going wrong with the whole situation.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Or, one could say, the claims are all bullshit from top to bottom.

Ah, yes, the old "I have a feeling" standard of irrefutable proof...
How many court decisions would I have to cite to come to a standard you would accept?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on May 13, 2021, 06:15:20 PM
For those who support claims of election fraud, has there been any additional evidence in the last few months?

I'm seeing some news about the election audit in Maricopa County Arizona, where they're searching for things like fraudulent ballot paper - but it sounds like they haven't turned up anything. What would be the best source to go to for the strongest claims?

Update on Antrim County, MI.

1. Apparently someone connected a laptop to the intranet that the machines were hooked to allowing access over the web and left it connected during the election.
2. Unnecessary database management software was added to the machines just before the election.
3. The log data was intentionally deleted manually to hide whoever logged in...the big deal here is that the log files from previous elections are still on the machines, only the Nov 3, 2020 access logs are gone...

I see that is the claim in the lawsuit, but I note that Antrim County also performed a hand recount of the results, which did not reveal any such fraud.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/12/17/antrim-county-hand-tally-certified-election-results/3937898001/

This alone is sufficient to reasonably prove the election results. Regarding the voting machine tallies... As I understand it, those are claims being made in the lawsuit by security analyst Russell Ramsland. However, Ramsland is also the one who made this affidavit,

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.gand.283580/gov.uscourts.gand.283580.7.1_2.pdf

That affidavit has easily verifiable falsehoods, notably on page 3, where it reports on a bunch of Michigan counties that simply do not exist. Given this affidavit, I would consider Ramsland to clearly not be a believable witness.

So how much of these claims are simply on the word of Russell Ramsland, and how much is verified by others (and if so, how reliable are they)?

EDITED TO ADD: The Michigan state investigation into the preliminary miscount in Antrim County was released on March 26. It includes a response to Ramsland's allegations, starting on page 40 of the report.

https://ftt-uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/29140718/Antrim.pdf

You asked what was going on...I mentioned the most recent stuff I had seen about Antrim Co.  Apparently you are more aware of the situation there than a lot of people so why did you bother asking?  ???

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on May 13, 2021, 06:57:12 PM
You asked what was going on...I mentioned the most recent stuff I had seen about Antrim Co.  Apparently you are more aware of the situation there than a lot of people so why did you bother asking?  ???

I didn't know about updates before you posted. I only knew about what happened Antrim County back in November/December, and other background like Ramsland's prior affadavit.

After I saw your post, I searched on the topic and posted what I found. For example, I didn't previously know that Ramsland was involved in the audit in Antrim County. I think that was revealed earlier this year.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on May 13, 2021, 10:15:57 PM
How many court decisions would I have to cite to come to a standard you would accept?

Since court decisions also supported things like the Jim Crow laws, then I assume that 1 court decision would be enough.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Brad on May 13, 2021, 10:21:42 PM
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20706832-5-12-21-letter-to-maricopa-county-board-1

Very interesting...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on May 14, 2021, 02:36:39 AM
For those who support claims of election fraud, has there been any additional evidence in the last few months?

I'm seeing some news about the election audit in Maricopa County Arizona, where they're searching for things like fraudulent ballot paper - but it sounds like they haven't turned up anything. What would be the best source to go to for the strongest claims?

jhkim, you have been following this election debacle closely so you would be able to tell me who audited the signature match.

I mean that has been debunked, right?

Things seem to get real quiet when talking about signature matching.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on May 14, 2021, 06:23:07 AM
For those who support claims of election fraud, has there been any additional evidence in the last few months?

I'm seeing some news about the election audit in Maricopa County Arizona, where they're searching for things like fraudulent ballot paper - but it sounds like they haven't turned up anything. What would be the best source to go to for the strongest claims?

jhkim, you have been following this election debacle closely so you would be able to tell me who audited the signature match.

I mean that has been debunked, right?

Things seem to get real quiet when talking about signature matching.

  One side effect of doing a mass mailing of ballots, is everyone's signature matching goes up exponentially compared to prior comparisons of absentee ballots.  I think what must have happened is everyone worked extra hard on signing their names during lockdown, thus the much lower percentages of rejected ballots.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: KingCheops on May 14, 2021, 10:21:56 AM
For those who support claims of election fraud, has there been any additional evidence in the last few months?

I'm seeing some news about the election audit in Maricopa County Arizona, where they're searching for things like fraudulent ballot paper - but it sounds like they haven't turned up anything. What would be the best source to go to for the strongest claims?

jhkim, you have been following this election debacle closely so you would be able to tell me who audited the signature match.

I mean that has been debunked, right?

Things seem to get real quiet when talking about signature matching.

  One side effect of doing a mass mailing of ballots, is everyone's signature matching goes up exponentially compared to prior comparisons of absentee ballots.  I think what must have happened is everyone worked extra hard on signing their names during lockdown, thus the much lower percentages of rejected ballots.

If we require signature matching we'll disenfranchise all the doctors.  Won't anyone think of the poor doctors!  Maybe Pharmacists should be the ones verifying the signatures?

Get it?  Because doctors have bad handwriting.  Nudge nudge. <rim shot>  Thank you and try the veal!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: DocJones on May 16, 2021, 04:22:49 PM
For those who support claims of election fraud, has there been any additional evidence in the last few months?
I've carefully logged about a dozen conspiracy theories, most of them contradictory, although there are quite a few numbskulls who believe all of them.
The only thing that has any legs at all so far are the hundreds of votes cast from people from non-existent addresses in Vegas and Detroit that Steven Crowder and team carefully documented.  However that isn't enough to have altered any national let alone local elections.

I'm seeing some news about the election audit in Maricopa County Arizona, where they're searching for things like fraudulent ballot paper - but it sounds like they haven't turned up anything. What would be the best source to go to for the strongest claims?
It's all bull crap and speculation until the audit actually ends and produces a report.  Even then it may be bull crap like the hilarious Russel Ramsland ASOG "audit" of Antrim county, MI.  I'm optimistic because Cyber Ninjas similar audit of Antrim County, MI was much more accurate.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: DocJones on May 16, 2021, 04:39:08 PM
I see that is the claim in the lawsuit, but I note that Antrim County also performed a hand recount of the results, which did not reveal any such fraud.
That's the bottom line.   All of the ballots were hand counted in December and matched the machine results that were certified in November.
Almost every elected official in this county include those running precincts, judges is a Republican including the county clerk.
The county clerk discovered an error and corrected it..  and yet the conspiracy theories rage on.
 
As I understand it, those are claims being made in the lawsuit by security analyst Russell Ramsland. However, Ramsland is also the one who made this affidavit,
Russel James Ramsland is a complete fraud.   He is not a security analysist.  He has a degree in political science.  He created a fake corporate website on November 7th, 2020 and there is no evidence the ASOG corporation ever did any work for any client.
That said four other companies did forensic audits of Antrim County machines.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 16, 2021, 04:58:24 PM
What I find fascinating is how Democrats/leftists reacted. No 'Hey, if you wanna waste your time and money, go for it'. Nope, they sent Mark Elias of Perkins Coie out there, and that to me is a HUGE red flag. Perkins Coie is a Democrat legal firm used for hatchet jobs and lawfare. You don't bust those guys out for piddly shit.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: KingCheops on May 17, 2021, 11:08:44 AM
What I find surprising is people who follow politics and still think Trump and the Republicans are one and the same.  Just because there's a Republican in charge of the county with the alleged cheating doesn't mean that they weren't involved in the cheating.  When you have a faction within the party that wants rid of him as bad as the DemonKKKrats they have just as much incentive to cheat.

That being said if CyberNinjas are allowed to complete the audit without any further shenanigans and they do come back saying it was a clean win then I'm willing to relent and admit it was a clean win.

It still boggles my mind how fucking Canada can have better elections than the US.  We're not a serious country anymore and even we laugh and point at you guys.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Brad on May 18, 2021, 09:02:10 AM
Imagine claiming it's "all a conspiracy!" while county officials are turning off ballot imaging to avoid having to provide evidence to an actual audit. Just imagine that.

If you don't think something fucked up is going on, you're literally a moron. There is no other explanation.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: KingCheops on May 18, 2021, 10:27:54 AM
Imagine claiming it's "all a conspiracy!" while county officials are turning off ballot imaging to avoid having to provide evidence to an actual audit. Just imagine that.

If you don't think something fucked up is going on, you're literally a moron. There is no other explanation.

I know and they try to claim that folks on the right are the crazy conspiracy nuts.  As if they haven't been drinking the BlueAnon kool aid for 5 years now.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on May 19, 2021, 03:26:59 AM
What I find surprising is people who follow politics and still think Trump and the Republicans are one and the same.  Just because there's a Republican in charge of the county with the alleged cheating doesn't mean that they weren't involved in the cheating.  When you have a faction within the party that wants rid of him as bad as the DemonKKKrats they have just as much incentive to cheat.

That being said if CyberNinjas are allowed to complete the audit without any further shenanigans and they do come back saying it was a clean win then I'm willing to relent and admit it was a clean win.

It still boggles my mind how fucking Canada can have better elections than the US.  We're not a serious country anymore and even we laugh and point at you guys.

Thank you for having an open mind about the investigation. Do you have an opinion about CyFIR, which is another of the companies hired in the audit? I say because the latest I see is this:

Quote
A firm that is conducting a controversial election audit in Arizona confirmed Tuesday that no data has been destroyed, contradicting some Republicans’ claims that officials had deleted information regarding the vote tally in Maricopa County.

Ben Cotton, founder of CyFIR LLC, which is working on the audit, said he had retrieved all the data he needs from Arizona’s largest county, which President Biden won in November. The remark came a day after county officials said auditors could not find the information because they did not know where it was located.
Source: https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/554250-firms-behind-arizona-election-audit-reverse-say-no-data-was-destroyed

Also,

Quote
Maricopa County officials explained and auditors acknowledged Tuesday, those conducting the audit had made a technical mistake and the database was never deleted.

Maricopa County Recorder Stephen Richer, a Republican, and the county's Board of Supervisors -- four of five of whom are Republicans -- responded to the claims with a scathing letter Monday that laid out a series of mistakes auditors had made. Among them: They had not properly reconstructed the RAID storage array used by the county when creating copies of the hard drives, which left them unable to access files that otherwise would have been readily accessible.

Ben Cotton, the founder of CyFIR, one of the companies involved in the Arizona Senate's audit, said in the closed hearing held by Senate Republicans on Tuesday that the county's explanation was right.
Source: https://www.kctv5.com/arizona-auditors-now-say-voter-data-is-intact-after-sparking-gop-feud/article_cb46fddc-790e-5f2c-8f14-bef769d95710.html

This is from the Board of Supervisor's technical letter on the data:

Quote
The purpose of this memo is to document the analysis that the Elections Department and Recorder Office’s Information Technology Teams performed in response Senate President Karen Fann’s letter dated May 12, 2021 (Senate President Fann’s Letter). The focus of the analysis was on Item II (Chain of Custody and Ballot Organization) and Item III (Election Management System Database).

The analysis found that Maricopa County did not spoil any evidence and the issues identified in Senate President Fann’s Letter are either incorrect or that there is a reasonable and valid explanation that addresses the issue.
Source: https://www.maricopa.gov/DocumentCenter/View/68971/Final-Technical-Response-Letter-with-Exhibits-5172021

I don't consider this the final word, but I would want to compare this to the allegation that the data was deleted, and see a response, if any.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on May 19, 2021, 08:11:37 AM
  I think the main thing to remember about this whole thing though is make sure if you attend a peaceful protest, you are in fact protesting for the correct side.  Because it is the difference between being let off with no charges and doing damn near 8 years in prison for putting your feet on a desk.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: KingCheops on May 19, 2021, 10:12:06 AM
  I think the main thing to remember about this whole thing though is make sure if you attend a peaceful protest, you are in fact protesting for the correct side.  Because it is the difference between being let off with no charges and doing damn near 8 years in prison for putting your feet on a desk.

8 years in solitary and having your face punched such that your orbital bone gets broken.

FOIA in the "QAnon Shaman" just resulted in a video tape being released where he had a calm discussion with capital police where the police said they could come in to the building and the police would escort them around.  The Shaman tells everyone to just be peaceful and the cops sure enough follow them around and escort them through the various rooms including letting them take seflies/pictures in Mike Pence's seat.

The whole thing is political theater.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on May 19, 2021, 10:18:34 AM
  I think the main thing to remember about this whole thing though is make sure if you attend a peaceful protest, you are in fact protesting for the correct side.  Because it is the difference between being let off with no charges and doing damn near 8 years in prison for putting your feet on a desk.

8 years in solitary and having your face punched such that your orbital bone gets broken.

FOIA in the "QAnon Shaman" just resulted in a video tape being released where he had a calm discussion with capital police where the police said they could come in to the building and the police would escort them around.  The Shaman tells everyone to just be peaceful and the cops sure enough follow them around and escort them through the various rooms including letting them take seflies/pictures in Mike Pence's seat.

The whole thing is political theater.

  Theater?   To me that is when some republican pretends to care by asking some hardish questions to some establishment talking head.  Going to prison for 8 years with no parole is waaaaaaaay past theatre and a pretty serious shot across the bow IMO.  I am fairly certain there will be no return fire though, so I fully expect going to prison for the wrong protest to be fully the rule/law of the day. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 19, 2021, 10:55:21 AM
Something to ponder:

Have any of the 1/6 peaceful protesters actually been convicted of anything? I've seen indictments, even charges, but no trials.

Sixth Amendment violations ahoy!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: KingCheops on May 19, 2021, 10:56:18 AM
  I think the main thing to remember about this whole thing though is make sure if you attend a peaceful protest, you are in fact protesting for the correct side.  Because it is the difference between being let off with no charges and doing damn near 8 years in prison for putting your feet on a desk.

8 years in solitary and having your face punched such that your orbital bone gets broken.

FOIA in the "QAnon Shaman" just resulted in a video tape being released where he had a calm discussion with capital police where the police said they could come in to the building and the police would escort them around.  The Shaman tells everyone to just be peaceful and the cops sure enough follow them around and escort them through the various rooms including letting them take seflies/pictures in Mike Pence's seat.

The whole thing is political theater.

  Theater?   To me that is when some republican pretends to care by asking some hardish questions to some establishment talking head.  Going to prison for 8 years with no parole is waaaaaaaay past theatre and a pretty serious shot across the bow IMO.  I am fairly certain there will be no return fire though, so I fully expect going to prison for the wrong protest to be fully the rule/law of the day.

Ah yes you are correct.  The Jan 6 "insurrection" is political theater.  It is being trumped up (pun intended) to enable the response they are taking which is VERY real.  I wasn't very clear with my statement.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on May 19, 2021, 10:58:56 AM
  I think the main thing to remember about this whole thing though is make sure if you attend a peaceful protest, you are in fact protesting for the correct side.  Because it is the difference between being let off with no charges and doing damn near 8 years in prison for putting your feet on a desk.

8 years in solitary and having your face punched such that your orbital bone gets broken.

FOIA in the "QAnon Shaman" just resulted in a video tape being released where he had a calm discussion with capital police where the police said they could come in to the building and the police would escort them around.  The Shaman tells everyone to just be peaceful and the cops sure enough follow them around and escort them through the various rooms including letting them take seflies/pictures in Mike Pence's seat.

The whole thing is political theater.

  Theater?   To me that is when some republican pretends to care by asking some hardish questions to some establishment talking head.  Going to prison for 8 years with no parole is waaaaaaaay past theatre and a pretty serious shot across the bow IMO.  I am fairly certain there will be no return fire though, so I fully expect going to prison for the wrong protest to be fully the rule/law of the day.

Ah yes you are correct.  The Jan 6 "insurrection" is political theater.  It is being trumped up (pun intended) to enable the response they are taking which is VERY real.  I wasn't very clear with my statement.

  No worries, i did for a moment think you wanted to be crowned the absolute king of understatement.  But I agree as to what and where the "theater" is.   I have some concerns with what looks to be VERY disproportionate reactions to what is becoming the tale of two sets of protests.  I guess it really started with NY tossing the proud boys into prison for some stiff sentences for what was a street brawl where no one was injured.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: KingCheops on May 19, 2021, 12:29:22 PM
  I think the main thing to remember about this whole thing though is make sure if you attend a peaceful protest, you are in fact protesting for the correct side.  Because it is the difference between being let off with no charges and doing damn near 8 years in prison for putting your feet on a desk.

8 years in solitary and having your face punched such that your orbital bone gets broken.

FOIA in the "QAnon Shaman" just resulted in a video tape being released where he had a calm discussion with capital police where the police said they could come in to the building and the police would escort them around.  The Shaman tells everyone to just be peaceful and the cops sure enough follow them around and escort them through the various rooms including letting them take seflies/pictures in Mike Pence's seat.

The whole thing is political theater.

  Theater?   To me that is when some republican pretends to care by asking some hardish questions to some establishment talking head.  Going to prison for 8 years with no parole is waaaaaaaay past theatre and a pretty serious shot across the bow IMO.  I am fairly certain there will be no return fire though, so I fully expect going to prison for the wrong protest to be fully the rule/law of the day.

Ah yes you are correct.  The Jan 6 "insurrection" is political theater.  It is being trumped up (pun intended) to enable the response they are taking which is VERY real.  I wasn't very clear with my statement.

  No worries, i did for a moment think you wanted to be crowned the absolute king of understatement.  But I agree as to what and where the "theater" is.   I have some concerns with what looks to be VERY disproportionate reactions to what is becoming the tale of two sets of protests.  I guess it really started with NY tossing the proud boys into prison for some stiff sentences for what was a street brawl where no one was injured.

The thing that is still utterly shocking to me, even after years of my dipshit communist father spouting his crap, is how these assholes on the left don't realize that once all the "white supremacist qanon proud boy crazies" are dealt with they're coming for the leftists next.  Twitter has already started purging Antifart which was the preliminary step they took with those of us on the right.  Once the neo-con/neo-lib Great Reset happens the Antifart brownshirts in Portland and Minneapolis will be rounded up and locked in solitary with no trial and frequent beatings.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: JRR on May 20, 2021, 04:35:00 PM
"A riot is an ugly thing, and I think it is just about time that we had one!"
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on May 20, 2021, 05:35:22 PM
The thing that is still utterly shocking to me, even after years of my dipshit communist father spouting his crap, is how these assholes on the left don't realize that once all the "white supremacist qanon proud boy crazies" are dealt with they're coming for the leftists next.  Twitter has already started purging Antifart which was the preliminary step they took with those of us on the right.  Once the neo-con/neo-lib Great Reset happens the Antifart brownshirts in Portland and Minneapolis will be rounded up and locked in solitary with no trial and frequent beatings.

From my view, the government and establishment has already come after those on the left.

Certainly for most of my lifetime, the norm was that it was leftist protesters who were thrown in jail and locked up, not conservatives. The people who were shut down and cancelled were primarily communists, queers, and other left-leaning types. I've read lots of stories for decades about left-leaning activists who are locked in solitary and/or beaten. At the time, the right tended to ignore such treatment, usually under the claim that law and order was more important than worrying about civil rights.


I welcome more support for civil rights against the government. No one should be rounded up and locked in solitary with no trial and frequent beatings, regardless of whether they are left-leaning or right-leaning. And I've been advocating for this for decades.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on May 20, 2021, 06:56:07 PM
The thing that is still utterly shocking to me, even after years of my dipshit communist father spouting his crap, is how these assholes on the left don't realize that once all the "white supremacist qanon proud boy crazies" are dealt with they're coming for the leftists next.  Twitter has already started purging Antifart which was the preliminary step they took with those of us on the right.  Once the neo-con/neo-lib Great Reset happens the Antifart brownshirts in Portland and Minneapolis will be rounded up and locked in solitary with no trial and frequent beatings.

From my view, the government and establishment has already come after those on the left.

Certainly for most of my lifetime, the norm was that it was leftist protesters who were thrown in jail and locked up, not conservatives. The people who were shut down and cancelled were primarily communists, queers, and other left-leaning types. I've read lots of stories for decades about left-leaning activists who are locked in solitary and/or beaten. At the time, the right tended to ignore such treatment, usually under the claim that law and order was more important than worrying about civil rights.


I welcome more support for civil rights against the government. No one should be rounded up and locked in solitary with no trial and frequent beatings, regardless of whether they are left-leaning or right-leaning. And I've been advocating for this for decades.

      I am sure you were right up front when Randy Weaver was getting his wife and kid slaughtered in the mountains.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 20, 2021, 06:58:09 PM
The thing that is still utterly shocking to me, even after years of my dipshit communist father spouting his crap, is how these assholes on the left don't realize that once all the "white supremacist qanon proud boy crazies" are dealt with they're coming for the leftists next.  Twitter has already started purging Antifart which was the preliminary step they took with those of us on the right.  Once the neo-con/neo-lib Great Reset happens the Antifart brownshirts in Portland and Minneapolis will be rounded up and locked in solitary with no trial and frequent beatings.

From my view, the government and establishment has already come after those on the left.

Certainly for most of my lifetime, the norm was that it was leftist protesters who were thrown in jail and locked up, not conservatives. The people who were shut down and cancelled were primarily communists, queers, and other left-leaning types. I've read lots of stories for decades about left-leaning activists who are locked in solitary and/or beaten. At the time, the right tended to ignore such treatment, usually under the claim that law and order was more important than worrying about civil rights.


I welcome more support for civil rights against the government. No one should be rounded up and locked in solitary with no trial and frequent beatings, regardless of whether they are left-leaning or right-leaning. And I've been advocating for this for decades.

      I am sure you were right up front when Randy Weaver was getting his wife and kid slaughtered in the mountains.
Well, the Feebs did harass the living shit out of the Weather Underground.

But funny how that all worked out.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: deadDMwalking on May 20, 2021, 07:13:04 PM
I find it incongruent that I've heard people on this board indicate a rapist shouldn't suffer any consequences until they have been convicted, but now violations of the law shouldn't have consequences after a conviction. 

Of course, I believe that there should be fewer restrictions/punishments for protesters (such as not charging them for criminal trespass), but several such measures criminalizing peaceful protest were passed by Republican legislatures over concers about pipelines and BLM.

The judicial system is not heavily biased against traditional 'Republicans'. 

In any case, you can take comfort that these 'patriots' aren't suffering any worse than Civil Rights advocates.   "Unearned suffering is redemptive."
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on May 20, 2021, 07:13:09 PM
The thing that is still utterly shocking to me, even after years of my dipshit communist father spouting his crap, is how these assholes on the left don't realize that once all the "white supremacist qanon proud boy crazies" are dealt with they're coming for the leftists next.  Twitter has already started purging Antifart which was the preliminary step they took with those of us on the right.  Once the neo-con/neo-lib Great Reset happens the Antifart brownshirts in Portland and Minneapolis will be rounded up and locked in solitary with no trial and frequent beatings.
From my view, the government and establishment has already come after those on the left.

Certainly for most of my lifetime, the norm was that it was leftist protesters who were thrown in jail and locked up, not conservatives. The people who were shut down and cancelled were primarily communists, queers, and other left-leaning types. I've read lots of stories for decades about left-leaning activists who are locked in solitary and/or beaten. At the time, the right tended to ignore such treatment, usually under the claim that law and order was more important than worrying about civil rights.


I welcome more support for civil rights against the government. No one should be rounded up and locked in solitary with no trial and frequent beatings, regardless of whether they are left-leaning or right-leaning. And I've been advocating for this for decades.

      I am sure you were right up front when Randy Weaver was getting his wife and kid slaughtered in the mountains.
Well, the Feebs did harass the living shit out of the Weather Underground.

But funny how that all worked out.

Now in all fairness, all WU did was plant some bombs...
and obviously the one at the capitol was far less devastating than the 1-6-21 breach. ;)

I mean it isn't like Weaver at all.  He had the audacity to refuse to infiltrate a dangerous organization and become an undercover informant for the FBI...of course that means they needed to have a sniper murder his wife as an object lesson.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on May 20, 2021, 08:27:14 PM
I find it incongruent that I've heard people on this board indicate a rapist shouldn't suffer any consequences until they have been convicted, but now violations of the law shouldn't have consequences after a conviction. 

Of course, I believe that there should be fewer restrictions/punishments for protesters (such as not charging them for criminal trespass), but several such measures criminalizing peaceful protest were passed by Republican legislatures over concers about pipelines and BLM.

The judicial system is not heavily biased against traditional 'Republicans'. 

In any case, you can take comfort that these 'patriots' aren't suffering any worse than Civil Rights advocates.   "Unearned suffering is redemptive."

Jesus, what happened to you dude?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 21, 2021, 08:08:47 AM
I find it incongruent that I've heard people on this board indicate a rapist shouldn't suffer any consequences until they have been convicted, but now violations of the law shouldn't have consequences after a conviction. 

Of course, I believe that there should be fewer restrictions/punishments for protesters (such as not charging them for criminal trespass), but several such measures criminalizing peaceful protest were passed by Republican legislatures over concers about pipelines and BLM.

The judicial system is not heavily biased against traditional 'Republicans'. 

In any case, you can take comfort that these 'patriots' aren't suffering any worse than Civil Rights advocates.   "Unearned suffering is redemptive."
I'm sorry you failed all your classes in how the Constitution works, specifically the rules on due process and speedy trials.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on May 21, 2021, 01:32:24 PM
I welcome more support for civil rights against the government. No one should be rounded up and locked in solitary with no trial and frequent beatings, regardless of whether they are left-leaning or right-leaning. And I've been advocating for this for decades.

      I am sure you were right up front when Randy Weaver was getting his wife and kid slaughtered in the mountains.
Well, the Feebs did harass the living shit out of the Weather Underground.

But funny how that all worked out.

Now in all fairness, all WU did was plant some bombs...
and obviously the one at the capitol was far less devastating than the 1-6-21 breach. ;)

I mean it isn't like Weaver at all.  He had the audacity to refuse to infiltrate a dangerous organization and become an undercover informant for the FBI...of course that means they needed to have a sniper murder his wife as an object lesson.

What are you expecting that I should have done about Randy Weaver, oggsmash? What did you do about Randy Weaver? I called for restrictions on federal power. Back then, the ACLU and the NRA had a joint statement condemning Ruby Ridge and calling for a controls on law officers. From 1995,

Quote
In an unusual alliance, gun-rights groups and the American Civil Liberties Union banded together and urged new controls Tuesday to prevent abuse of power by federal law officers.

The coalition cited the bloody confrontations at Waco, Texas, and Ruby Ridge, Idaho, as examples of increasing misuse of deadly force and military-style tactics by federal agents.

``We want change before there are more Wacos and Ruby Ridges,″ Laura Murphy, director of the ACLU’s Washington office, told a news conference.

In a letter to congressional leaders, the 14-member coalition called for a national commission to review federal law enforcement policies and reassert constitutional rights.

The group also wants the government to create a permanent oversight board _ akin to the citizens’ review boards that oversee many local police departments _ to watch over federal police agencies.

Justice Department officials say Congress already provides the necessary oversight. The Waco and Ruby Ridge standoffs have been reviewed in several Hill hearings. At a hearing last week, the Clinton administration announced new rules to clarify when federal agents are authorized to shoot.
Quote
Conflicting reports about mistakes made by the FBI at Ruby Ridge prove that law enforcement agencies cannot be trusted to investigate themselves, the group’s letter said.

The group called on Congress and the president to:
  • Clarify and tighten rules that govern use deadly force.
  • Re-examine laws governing when the military can assist police.
  • Allow officers to use ``dynamic entry″ _ bursting through doors without first knocking and identifying themselves _ only under the most critical circumstances.
  • More severely punish law officers who lie or mislead the courts when applying for search warrants.
  • Pass legislation to void a Supreme Court decision allowing evidence obtained under faulty search warrants to be used in court if police acted in ``good faith.″
  • Require law officers to consult qualified scholars when dealing with ideological or religious groups, such as in the 1993 siege at the Branch Davidians’ compound in Waco.
Source: https://apnews.com/article/f322f0c09af82f5b5446fe17b91e387f

I supported these calls for change at the time.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 21, 2021, 02:16:52 PM
That newspost was made in 1995. What changed. Anything?

'Cause a couple years back we had the OIG report into the FBI where it came out that the Feebs were taking bribes in exchange for leaking info to the press, and were so infected with politics it's entirely questionable if they could ever be objective in an investigation.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on May 21, 2021, 02:58:54 PM
That newspost was made in 1995. What changed. Anything?

'Cause a couple years back we had the OIG report into the FBI where it came out that the Feebs were taking bribes in exchange for leaking info to the press, and were so infected with politics it's entirely questionable if they could ever be objective in an investigation.

Not much, because the cause hasn't been very popular.

Mostly Americans have seen attempts to limit police and federal powers as being anti-law-and-order. Clinton supported the War on Drugs; Bush majorly stepped up powers after 9/11; and Obama and Trump both continued previous policies, with no rollback or significant reform.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 21, 2021, 06:40:25 PM
That newspost was made in 1995. What changed. Anything?

'Cause a couple years back we had the OIG report into the FBI where it came out that the Feebs were taking bribes in exchange for leaking info to the press, and were so infected with politics it's entirely questionable if they could ever be objective in an investigation.

Not much, because the cause hasn't been very popular.

Mostly Americans have seen attempts to limit police and federal powers as being anti-law-and-order. Clinton supported the War on Drugs; Bush majorly stepped up powers after 9/11; and Obama and Trump both continued previous policies, with no rollback or significant reform.
https://csgjusticecenter.org/2018/12/21/president-trump-signs-first-step-act-into-law-reauthorizing-second-chance-act/

Whatever.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on May 21, 2021, 06:49:05 PM
That newspost was made in 1995. What changed. Anything?

'Cause a couple years back we had the OIG report into the FBI where it came out that the Feebs were taking bribes in exchange for leaking info to the press, and were so infected with politics it's entirely questionable if they could ever be objective in an investigation.

Not much, because the cause hasn't been very popular.

Mostly Americans have seen attempts to limit police and federal powers as being anti-law-and-order. Clinton supported the War on Drugs; Bush majorly stepped up powers after 9/11; and Obama and Trump both continued previous policies, with no rollback or significant reform.

https://csgjusticecenter.org/2018/12/21/president-trump-signs-first-step-act-into-law-reauthorizing-second-chance-act/

Whatever.

That bill is about prison reform, which would have no effect on Ruby Ridge since they weren't arrested yet.

I approve of Obama's and Trump's prison reform measures. It's just that I thought of it as a different topic than reducing police and federal powers - i.e. what police can do *before* you are thrown in jail.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on May 21, 2021, 07:40:25 PM
That newspost was made in 1995. What changed. Anything?

'Cause a couple years back we had the OIG report into the FBI where it came out that the Feebs were taking bribes in exchange for leaking info to the press, and were so infected with politics it's entirely questionable if they could ever be objective in an investigation.

Not much, because the cause hasn't been very popular.

Mostly Americans have seen attempts to limit police and federal powers as being anti-law-and-order. Clinton supported the War on Drugs; Bush majorly stepped up powers after 9/11; and Obama and Trump both continued previous policies, with no rollback or significant reform.

https://csgjusticecenter.org/2018/12/21/president-trump-signs-first-step-act-into-law-reauthorizing-second-chance-act/

Whatever.

That bill is about prison reform, which would have no effect on Ruby Ridge since they weren't arrested yet.

I approve of Obama's and Trump's prison reform measures. It's just that I thought of it as a different topic than reducing police and federal powers - i.e. what police can do *before* you are thrown in jail.

It is already illegal to kill someone who is not posing a threat...even more so under the police (federal or local) ROE...there is a reason I used the very specific legal term 'murder' when referencing Weaver's wife.

...and Trump tried to start reforming the FBI, but that was used to launch a special prosecution against him.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on May 21, 2021, 10:38:07 PM
I approve of Obama's and Trump's prison reform measures. It's just that I thought of it as a different topic than reducing police and federal powers - i.e. what police can do *before* you are thrown in jail.

It is already illegal to kill someone who is not posing a threat...even more so under the police (federal or local) ROE...there is a reason I used the very specific legal term 'murder' when referencing Weaver's wife.

...and Trump tried to start reforming the FBI, but that was used to launch a special prosecution against him.

It isn't illegal for the police to kill. The police might violate department rules, but if they are even remotely doing their job - they are protected by "qualified immunity". It seems nearly impossible to prosecute or sue police if they even just think they are doing their job. In the case of Weaver, I think they settled - because it would be terrible PR if they went to court. But, for example, I just read about where a policeman shot a 10-year-old child who was lying face down on the ground - while aiming for a dog that hadn't attacked - and it was upheld in court as covered by immunity.

https://www.ajc.com/news/local/case-dismissed-deputy-aims-for-dog-but-shoots-kid/6NBUYNgAPMsGfC84LEot3O/

More on qualified immunity:

https://www.thoughtco.com/qualified-immunity-definition-and-examples-5081905

I think the law needs to be changed.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on May 21, 2021, 11:44:57 PM
We should give qualified immunity to everyone. Privilege for the people!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on May 22, 2021, 12:50:11 AM
We should give qualified immunity to everyone. Privilege for the people!

Do you think people are going to get a vaccine that only gives qualified immunity?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on May 22, 2021, 02:44:38 AM
I approve of Obama's and Trump's prison reform measures. It's just that I thought of it as a different topic than reducing police and federal powers - i.e. what police can do *before* you are thrown in jail.

It is already illegal to kill someone who is not posing a threat...even more so under the police (federal or local) ROE...there is a reason I used the very specific legal term 'murder' when referencing Weaver's wife.

...and Trump tried to start reforming the FBI, but that was used to launch a special prosecution against him.

It isn't illegal for the police to kill. The police might violate department rules, but if they are even remotely doing their job - they are protected by "qualified immunity". It seems nearly impossible to prosecute or sue police if they even just think they are doing their job. In the case of Weaver, I think they settled - because it would be terrible PR if they went to court. But, for example, I just read about where a policeman shot a 10-year-old child who was lying face down on the ground - while aiming for a dog that hadn't attacked - and it was upheld in court as covered by immunity.

https://www.ajc.com/news/local/case-dismissed-deputy-aims-for-dog-but-shoots-kid/6NBUYNgAPMsGfC84LEot3O/

More on qualified immunity:

https://www.thoughtco.com/qualified-immunity-definition-and-examples-5081905

I think the law needs to be changed.

Yeah, I know what qualified immunity is.

Reread what I posted...

I never said it was illegal for the police to kill someone, I said it was illegal if the target was not presenting a threat...

There is a reason there was a big dust-up about the ROE at Ruby Ridge...and please do some research on the incident...

Do you ever notice how the police really try to settle out of court when qualified immunity isn't going to save them from a civil suit.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on May 22, 2021, 05:50:10 AM
I approve of Obama's and Trump's prison reform measures. It's just that I thought of it as a different topic than reducing police and federal powers - i.e. what police can do *before* you are thrown in jail.

It is already illegal to kill someone who is not posing a threat...even more so under the police (federal or local) ROE...there is a reason I used the very specific legal term 'murder' when referencing Weaver's wife.

...and Trump tried to start reforming the FBI, but that was used to launch a special prosecution against him.

It isn't illegal for the police to kill. The police might violate department rules, but if they are even remotely doing their job - they are protected by "qualified immunity". It seems nearly impossible to prosecute or sue police if they even just think they are doing their job. In the case of Weaver, I think they settled - because it would be terrible PR if they went to court. But, for example, I just read about where a policeman shot a 10-year-old child who was lying face down on the ground - while aiming for a dog that hadn't attacked - and it was upheld in court as covered by immunity.

https://www.ajc.com/news/local/case-dismissed-deputy-aims-for-dog-but-shoots-kid/6NBUYNgAPMsGfC84LEot3O/

More on qualified immunity:

https://www.thoughtco.com/qualified-immunity-definition-and-examples-5081905

I think the law needs to be changed.

   That Atlanta article is very short on details.  The only details about the dog come from the family, not testimony of officers.  Without reading the actual case I do not know how threatening the dog was, That certainly played a direct role in the Judges on that circuit dismissing the case and I need to know more. 

   Get rid of or restrict qualified immunity, it will be a very interesting experiment.  I am all for it. 

   I also thank Obama for all the positive things Trump did.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 25, 2021, 01:22:48 PM
'Get jobs in the renewable energy industry' they say. And yet:

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/biden-looks-abroad-electric-vehicle-metals-blow-us-miners-2021-05-25/

But hey, no more mean tweets amirite?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on May 25, 2021, 01:34:12 PM
'Get jobs in the renewable energy industry' they say. And yet:

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/biden-looks-abroad-electric-vehicle-metals-blow-us-miners-2021-05-25/

But hey, no more mean tweets amirite?

I wonder why?

https://money.cnn.com/2018/05/01/technology/cobalt-congo-child-labor-car-smartphone-batteries/index.html

Everyone who voted for Biden should have their fucking noses rubbed in this shit.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Brad on May 25, 2021, 01:46:51 PM
So if you voted for Biden that means you support child slave labor to mine metals for your electric cars so you can feel better about destroying the environment?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: KingCheops on May 25, 2021, 02:46:52 PM
So if you voted for Biden that means you support child slave labor to mine metals for your electric cars so you can feel better about destroying the environment?

Don't point out their hypocrisy!  It literally melts their brains!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: This Guy on May 25, 2021, 04:41:22 PM
So if you voted for Biden that means you support child slave labor to mine metals for your electric cars so you can feel better about destroying the environment?

yes, have you seen kids lately? they're awful. could use a little slave labor
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on May 25, 2021, 07:34:05 PM
So if you voted for Biden that means you support child slave labor to mine metals for your electric cars so you can feel better about destroying the environment?

yes, have you seen kids lately? they're awful. could use a little slave labor

Those chimneys are not going to clean themselves.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on May 26, 2021, 09:34:02 AM
Jhkim, I guess what I expect from you is to speak to a specific issue and not drag up 60's whataboutism qualifiers every time you get a chance.  I suppose that is expecting too much.  I guess the really good news for you, is though you missed the 60's, it looks like the folks over on your side of this bullshit are going to bring 'em back.  Good job. 

   I am not arguing nothing has ever happened that was heavy handed or wrong to people who wanted representation or rights.  I am saying if the same heavy handed propagandized bullshit is still going on, we are NOT making progress, we have simply swapped out who is running the institutions, and those people seem very, very much obsessed with "getting even".  There is no getting even, there is living well and moving on.  Leftists are not interested even a little bit in doing that.  Some will mealy mouth how things are over the line, BUT well, since before other people were over the line yadda, yadda, yadda.   Just remember if it comes to an actual boil, violence will erupt, and all that stuff will mean exactly nothing. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on May 26, 2021, 09:54:47 AM
I guess what I expect from you is
Your error in expectations is not the other person's fault. Learn to work with what they offer, not what you want them to offer, and you might get somewhere.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on May 26, 2021, 09:57:08 AM
I guess what I expect from you is
Your error in expectations is not the other person's fault. Learn to work with what they offer, not what you want them to offer, and you might get somewhere.

    He asked me directly what I expected.  I answered him.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on May 26, 2021, 10:03:18 AM
I guess what I expect from you is
Your error in expectations is not the other person's fault. Learn to work with what they offer, not what you want them to offer, and you might get somewhere.

    He asked me directly what I expected.  I answered him.
That you're aware of your thinking error is a positive step.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on May 26, 2021, 10:14:05 AM
I guess what I expect from you is
Your error in expectations is not the other person's fault. Learn to work with what they offer, not what you want them to offer, and you might get somewhere.

    He asked me directly what I expected.  I answered him.
That you're aware of your thinking error is a positive step.

      No idea wtf you are talking about, and I am guessing you are super bored.  No bedpans to change out?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on May 26, 2021, 11:03:40 AM
I guess what I expect from you is
Your error in expectations is not the other person's fault. Learn to work with what they offer, not what you want them to offer, and you might get somewhere.

    He asked me directly what I expected.  I answered him.
That you're aware of your thinking error is a positive step.

      No idea wtf you are talking about, and I am guessing you are super bored.  No bedpans to change out?
You are aware that your expectations from him do not match what he is offering. Either you accept that or you don't, but expecting others to conform to what you want is only going to leave you disappointed when they just don't give a fuck about your desires.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on May 26, 2021, 11:08:23 AM
I guess what I expect from you is
Your error in expectations is not the other person's fault. Learn to work with what they offer, not what you want them to offer, and you might get somewhere.

    He asked me directly what I expected.  I answered him.
That you're aware of your thinking error is a positive step.

      No idea wtf you are talking about, and I am guessing you are super bored.  No bedpans to change out?
You are aware that your expectations from him do not match what he is offering. Either you accept that or you don't, but expecting others to conform to what you want is only going to leave you disappointed when they just don't give a fuck about your desires.

  Buddy that was obvious to both (all of us on here) of us before he asked me the question.  I did not understand you continuing to go on about it, unless this is much more super serial to you than usual today.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: This Guy on May 26, 2021, 02:23:00 PM
So if you voted for Biden that means you support child slave labor to mine metals for your electric cars so you can feel better about destroying the environment?

yes, have you seen kids lately? they're awful. could use a little slave labor

Those chimneys are not going to clean themselves.

self-cleaning chimneys were invented briefly but then eliminated because they would kill the chimney-sweep market. wise choice
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on May 26, 2021, 03:59:43 PM
Jhkim, I guess what I expect from you is to speak to a specific issue and not drag up 60's whataboutism qualifiers every time you get a chance.  I suppose that is expecting too much.  I guess the really good news for you, is though you missed the 60's, it looks like the folks over on your side of this bullshit are going to bring 'em back.  Good job. 

   I am not arguing nothing has ever happened that was heavy handed or wrong to people who wanted representation or rights.  I am saying if the same heavy handed propagandized bullshit is still going on, we are NOT making progress, we have simply swapped out who is running the institutions, and those people seem very, very much obsessed with "getting even".  There is no getting even, there is living well and moving on.  Leftists are not interested even a little bit in doing that.  Some will mealy mouth how things are over the line, BUT well, since before other people were over the line yadda, yadda, yadda.   Just remember if it comes to an actual boil, violence will erupt, and all that stuff will mean exactly nothing.

When I said about coming for liberals, I wasn't talking about the 1960s. It's continued to be true long since. Consistently from the 1980s, the 1990s, and the 2000s, Republicans have continued to push for more government power -- through the War on Drugs, the Patriot Act, and others. The Democrats have also been complicit in this -- but they haven't pushed as hard.

Even through the Occupy Wall Street movement in 2011, Republicans have continued to push for more police power - and cracking down on the rights of protesters and journalists. The journalists and protesters who have been arrested and imprisoned continued to be primarily liberal through 2011 at least. It's only in the late Obama and Trump era that I've seen any regrets from Republicans against expanding police power, and even then there hasn't been much substantial action taken to reduce police powers or expand civil rights.


So when you complain that we're not making progress and putting the blame on leftists -- that doesn't sit well with me. Yes, Democrats and leftists have been complicit in this - but I think it is a bipartisan issue that only a minority on both sides are supporting, and historically it has mainly been pushed by a minority of traditional liberals.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on May 26, 2021, 04:45:40 PM
Jhkim, I guess what I expect from you is to speak to a specific issue and not drag up 60's whataboutism qualifiers every time you get a chance.  I suppose that is expecting too much.  I guess the really good news for you, is though you missed the 60's, it looks like the folks over on your side of this bullshit are going to bring 'em back.  Good job. 

   I am not arguing nothing has ever happened that was heavy handed or wrong to people who wanted representation or rights.  I am saying if the same heavy handed propagandized bullshit is still going on, we are NOT making progress, we have simply swapped out who is running the institutions, and those people seem very, very much obsessed with "getting even".  There is no getting even, there is living well and moving on.  Leftists are not interested even a little bit in doing that.  Some will mealy mouth how things are over the line, BUT well, since before other people were over the line yadda, yadda, yadda.   Just remember if it comes to an actual boil, violence will erupt, and all that stuff will mean exactly nothing.

When I said about coming for liberals, I wasn't talking about the 1960s. It's continued to be true long since. Consistently from the 1980s, the 1990s, and the 2000s, Republicans have continued to push for more government power -- through the War on Drugs, the Patriot Act, and others. The Democrats have also been complicit in this -- but they haven't pushed as hard.

Even through the Occupy Wall Street movement in 2011, Republicans have continued to push for more police power - and cracking down on the rights of protesters and journalists. The journalists and protesters who have been arrested and imprisoned continued to be primarily liberal through 2011 at least. It's only in the late Obama and Trump era that I've seen any regrets from Republicans against expanding police power, and even then there hasn't been much substantial action taken to reduce police powers or expand civil rights.


So when you complain that we're not making progress and putting the blame on leftists -- that doesn't sit well with me. Yes, Democrats and leftists have been complicit in this - but I think it is a bipartisan issue that only a minority on both sides are supporting, and historically it has mainly been pushed by a minority of traditional liberals.

  2011...During the republican Obama administration..... Your immediate rebuttal to me mentioning a dude going to jail for EIGHT years for putting his feet on a desk is a list of liberals who spent a day in jail. That is where I have issue, in the 60's there was real violence and brutality, the occupy protests?  As your new POTUS says, C'MON MAN.   The left controls education, big tech, the government, literally every institution of the government.   You keep calling authoritarians right wing, I think you may want to wake up to the new left.  I honestly have zero taste for republicans, they have NOT been what I would call right wing or conservative for a long time, but it wouldnt matter to me anyway, I am not a conservative either.  I am the guy caught up in this bullshit, and from my position, the left is out of control.   If you want to make a wall of reasons why it is ok now for the left to rage out of control, go right ahead.  If you want to assume my support for an out of control police state (the Patriot act got ALOT of support from the left, just like invading Iraq did) go right ahead.  I have made it clear as crystal about where I stand, and I am irate with the ones in power, and there is no way shape or form of actual conservative or right wing control of the US government since Reagan.  I was against all the things you list as making a person liberal (which let's be honest, in your mind that means "good")to be against and I am against all the bullshit leftists push now.  You keep equating leftist with liberal, that is a long time gone. 

   Honestly I am likely simply against any institution or power structure that grows too powerful/large.  I do not know what that is.  I just watch people who were for these power structures (some republicans) bitch now that they work against them and people who were so much against these things (Leftists constantly bitched about corporations, now they cant STFU praising them) seem so in lock step now.  That is a problem, and it is going to get worse.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on May 26, 2021, 10:43:08 PM
Jhkim, I guess what I expect from you is to speak to a specific issue and not drag up 60's whataboutism qualifiers every time you get a chance.  I suppose that is expecting too much.  I guess the really good news for you, is though you missed the 60's, it looks like the folks over on your side of this bullshit are going to bring 'em back.  Good job. 

   I am not arguing nothing has ever happened that was heavy handed or wrong to people who wanted representation or rights.  I am saying if the same heavy handed propagandized bullshit is still going on, we are NOT making progress, we have simply swapped out who is running the institutions, and those people seem very, very much obsessed with "getting even".  There is no getting even, there is living well and moving on.  Leftists are not interested even a little bit in doing that.  Some will mealy mouth how things are over the line, BUT well, since before other people were over the line yadda, yadda, yadda.   Just remember if it comes to an actual boil, violence will erupt, and all that stuff will mean exactly nothing.

When I said about coming for liberals, I wasn't talking about the 1960s. It's continued to be true long since. Consistently from the 1980s, the 1990s, and the 2000s, Republicans have continued to push for more government power -- through the War on Drugs, the Patriot Act, and others. The Democrats have also been complicit in this -- but they haven't pushed as hard.

Even through the Occupy Wall Street movement in 2011, Republicans have continued to push for more police power - and cracking down on the rights of protesters and journalists. The journalists and protesters who have been arrested and imprisoned continued to be primarily liberal through 2011 at least. It's only in the late Obama and Trump era that I've seen any regrets from Republicans against expanding police power, and even then there hasn't been much substantial action taken to reduce police powers or expand civil rights.


So when you complain that we're not making progress and putting the blame on leftists -- that doesn't sit well with me. Yes, Democrats and leftists have been complicit in this - but I think it is a bipartisan issue that only a minority on both sides are supporting, and historically it has mainly been pushed by a minority of traditional liberals.

  2011...During the republican Obama administration..... Your immediate rebuttal to me mentioning a dude going to jail for EIGHT years for putting his feet on a desk is a list of liberals who spent a day in jail. That is where I have issue, in the 60's there was real violence and brutality, the occupy protests?  As your new POTUS says, C'MON MAN.   The left controls education, big tech, the government, literally every institution of the government.   You keep calling authoritarians right wing, I think you may want to wake up to the new left.  I honestly have zero taste for republicans, they have NOT been what I would call right wing or conservative for a long time, but it wouldnt matter to me anyway, I am not a conservative either.  I am the guy caught up in this bullshit, and from my position, the left is out of control.   If you want to make a wall of reasons why it is ok now for the left to rage out of control, go right ahead.  If you want to assume my support for an out of control police state (the Patriot act got ALOT of support from the left, just like invading Iraq did) go right ahead.  I have made it clear as crystal about where I stand, and I am irate with the ones in power, and there is no way shape or form of actual conservative or right wing control of the US government since Reagan.  I was against all the things you list as making a person liberal (which let's be honest, in your mind that means "good")to be against and I am against all the bullshit leftists push now.  You keep equating leftist with liberal, that is a long time gone. 

   Honestly I am likely simply against any institution or power structure that grows too powerful/large.  I do not know what that is.  I just watch people who were for these power structures (some republicans) bitch now that they work against them and people who were so much against these things (Leftists constantly bitched about corporations, now they cant STFU praising them) seem so in lock step now.  That is a problem, and it is going to get worse.
Agree with nearly all of this. John Kim was describing the law & order party, and the excesses of the Wars on Drugs and Terror. Which have led to severe curtailments of basic rights, from the militarization of police, to the vast growth of the prison populations, the increase in police (and state) immunity, domestic surveillance and massive infringements of privacy with at best a token review, and much, much more.

But this isn't the law & order party vs. the freedom party. It's the law & order and national defense party, and the other law & order and national defense party that voted in lockstop on things like the Patriot Act. (https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/107-2001/s313) You can argue that the second party is slightly weaker on the law & order and national defense, but only slightly, and they're much bigger in support of the growth in size and power of the government. Which has been documented by the staggering number of pages added to the Federal Register each year, and includes a enormous increase in the number of federal crimes and prosecutions, nearly all for inadvertent technical offenses (like all the new environment regs that apply to landowners). When you have one side that's pushing for power and control in a few specific areas, and the other side that's slightly weaker in pushing for power and control in those specific areas, but much stronger in pushing for power and control everywhere else, you can't exactly call party 2 the party of restraint.

And that was before the left went crazy.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: KingCheops on May 27, 2021, 01:30:15 PM
   Honestly I am likely simply against any institution or power structure that grows too powerful/large.  I do not know what that is.

Remember when this was a liberal position?  Man those were better times...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on May 27, 2021, 01:56:49 PM
   Honestly I am likely simply against any institution or power structure that grows too powerful/large.  I do not know what that is.

Remember when this was a liberal position?  Man those were better times...

  Well, I did think liberal = liberty and that was the position, now I do not know WTF anything is because there seems to be endless co opting or re defining of things.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: UndyingDM on May 27, 2021, 02:03:32 PM
'Get jobs in the renewable energy industry' they say. And yet:

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/biden-looks-abroad-electric-vehicle-metals-blow-us-miners-2021-05-25/

But hey, no more mean tweets amirite?

This is the perfect solution fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy#:~:text=The%20perfect%20solution%20fallacy%20is,exist%20after%20it%20were%20implemented.&text=The%20fallacy%20is%20a%20type%20of%20false%20dilemma.

Just because there isn't a perfect solution doesn't mean we shouldn't try for a better solution. Coal, oil, and the other fossil fuels are a non-renewable resource that are polluting the environment and fueling climate change. Moving towards better options is the obviously better goal than no solution. What happens in other countries is an issue, but as the US is not in charge of other countries, it's harder to deal with issues there than in the US. Every liberal I know (including me) is against slavery and child labor, and want to create green-energy jobs in the US.

Stop with the fucking strawmen arguments, please. If you want to talk about a liberal's viewpoints, talk to a freaking liberal, not cherrypicking whatever news articles you want.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on May 27, 2021, 02:12:18 PM
'Get jobs in the renewable energy industry' they say. And yet:

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/biden-looks-abroad-electric-vehicle-metals-blow-us-miners-2021-05-25/

But hey, no more mean tweets amirite?

This is the perfect solution fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy#:~:text=The%20perfect%20solution%20fallacy%20is,exist%20after%20it%20were%20implemented.&text=The%20fallacy%20is%20a%20type%20of%20false%20dilemma.

Just because there isn't a perfect solution doesn't mean we shouldn't try for a better solution. Coal, oil, and the other fossil fuels are a non-renewable resource that are polluting the environment and fueling climate change. Moving towards better options is the obviously better goal than no solution. What happens in other countries is an issue, but as the US is not in charge of other countries, it's harder to deal with issues there than in the US. Every liberal I know (including me) is against slavery and child labor, and want to create green-energy jobs in the US.

Stop with the fucking strawmen arguments, please. If you want to talk about a liberal's viewpoints, talk to a freaking liberal, not cherrypicking whatever news articles you want.

     I think all those coal miners should simply #learntocode.   
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: UndyingDM on May 27, 2021, 02:27:39 PM
'Get jobs in the renewable energy industry' they say. And yet:

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/biden-looks-abroad-electric-vehicle-metals-blow-us-miners-2021-05-25/

But hey, no more mean tweets amirite?

This is the perfect solution fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy#:~:text=The%20perfect%20solution%20fallacy%20is,exist%20after%20it%20were%20implemented.&text=The%20fallacy%20is%20a%20type%20of%20false%20dilemma.

Just because there isn't a perfect solution doesn't mean we shouldn't try for a better solution. Coal, oil, and the other fossil fuels are a non-renewable resource that are polluting the environment and fueling climate change. Moving towards better options is the obviously better goal than no solution. What happens in other countries is an issue, but as the US is not in charge of other countries, it's harder to deal with issues there than in the US. Every liberal I know (including me) is against slavery and child labor, and want to create green-energy jobs in the US.

Stop with the fucking strawmen arguments, please. If you want to talk about a liberal's viewpoints, talk to a freaking liberal, not cherrypicking whatever news articles you want.

     I think all those coal miners should simply #learntocode.

I think all those coal miners should stop digging up coal and that the government should help them get whatever other job they can (ideally in green energy). I'm assuming that you're being facetious here, but I'm totally serious.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on May 27, 2021, 02:35:25 PM
'Get jobs in the renewable energy industry' they say. And yet:

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/biden-looks-abroad-electric-vehicle-metals-blow-us-miners-2021-05-25/

But hey, no more mean tweets amirite?

This is the perfect solution fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy#:~:text=The%20perfect%20solution%20fallacy%20is,exist%20after%20it%20were%20implemented.&text=The%20fallacy%20is%20a%20type%20of%20false%20dilemma.

Just because there isn't a perfect solution doesn't mean we shouldn't try for a better solution. Coal, oil, and the other fossil fuels are a non-renewable resource that are polluting the environment and fueling climate change. Moving towards better options is the obviously better goal than no solution. What happens in other countries is an issue, but as the US is not in charge of other countries, it's harder to deal with issues there than in the US. Every liberal I know (including me) is against slavery and child labor, and want to create green-energy jobs in the US.

Stop with the fucking strawmen arguments, please. If you want to talk about a liberal's viewpoints, talk to a freaking liberal, not cherrypicking whatever news articles you want.

     I think all those coal miners should simply #learntocode.

I think all those coal miners should stop digging up coal and that the government should help them get whatever other job they can (ideally in green energy). I'm assuming that you're being facetious here, but I'm totally serious.

  I am simply agreeing with former POTUS Obama. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: UndyingDM on May 27, 2021, 02:46:33 PM
'Get jobs in the renewable energy industry' they say. And yet:

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/biden-looks-abroad-electric-vehicle-metals-blow-us-miners-2021-05-25/

But hey, no more mean tweets amirite?

This is the perfect solution fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy#:~:text=The%20perfect%20solution%20fallacy%20is,exist%20after%20it%20were%20implemented.&text=The%20fallacy%20is%20a%20type%20of%20false%20dilemma.

Just because there isn't a perfect solution doesn't mean we shouldn't try for a better solution. Coal, oil, and the other fossil fuels are a non-renewable resource that are polluting the environment and fueling climate change. Moving towards better options is the obviously better goal than no solution. What happens in other countries is an issue, but as the US is not in charge of other countries, it's harder to deal with issues there than in the US. Every liberal I know (including me) is against slavery and child labor, and want to create green-energy jobs in the US.

Stop with the fucking strawmen arguments, please. If you want to talk about a liberal's viewpoints, talk to a freaking liberal, not cherrypicking whatever news articles you want.

     I think all those coal miners should simply #learntocode.

I think all those coal miners should stop digging up coal and that the government should help them get whatever other job they can (ideally in green energy). I'm assuming that you're being facetious here, but I'm totally serious.

  I am simply agreeing with former POTUS Obama.
If you say so.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on May 27, 2021, 02:50:06 PM
'Get jobs in the renewable energy industry' they say. And yet:

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/biden-looks-abroad-electric-vehicle-metals-blow-us-miners-2021-05-25/

But hey, no more mean tweets amirite?

This is the perfect solution fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy#:~:text=The%20perfect%20solution%20fallacy%20is,exist%20after%20it%20were%20implemented.&text=The%20fallacy%20is%20a%20type%20of%20false%20dilemma.

Just because there isn't a perfect solution doesn't mean we shouldn't try for a better solution. Coal, oil, and the other fossil fuels are a non-renewable resource that are polluting the environment and fueling climate change. Moving towards better options is the obviously better goal than no solution. What happens in other countries is an issue, but as the US is not in charge of other countries, it's harder to deal with issues there than in the US. Every liberal I know (including me) is against slavery and child labor, and want to create green-energy jobs in the US.

Stop with the fucking strawmen arguments, please. If you want to talk about a liberal's viewpoints, talk to a freaking liberal, not cherrypicking whatever news articles you want.

     I think all those coal miners should simply #learntocode.

I think all those coal miners should stop digging up coal and that the government should help them get whatever other job they can (ideally in green energy). I'm assuming that you're being facetious here, but I'm totally serious.

  I am simply agreeing with former POTUS Obama.
If you say so.

  He said it.  He however, alot like you, has zero fucking idea as to how much the nation relies on fossil fuels, and how incredibly painful it would be to "go green" and completely ignore Hydrogen fire plants or nuclear power.   That is, unless you have a background you are not sharing with Power generation/plants/electrical systems or some specialized knowledge.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: UndyingDM on May 27, 2021, 03:14:00 PM
  He said it.  He however, alot like you, has zero fucking idea as to how much the nation relies on fossil fuels, and how incredibly painful it would be to "go green" and completely ignore Hydrogen fire plants or nuclear power.   That is, unless you have a background you are not sharing with Power generation/plants/electrical systems or some specialized knowledge.
I never said you didn't. I apologize, but I am not very good at picking up on subtleties. I was assuming you were mocking him, but it wasn't explicitly stated, so I was not sure if you were.

I know how much our nation relies on fossil fuels. I know that about 81% of our energy comes from fossil fuels, and that transitioning to renewable resources will be expensive, labor-intensive, difficult, and take a long time to come into effect. That's precisely why liberals aren't saying "we need to stop using 100% of our fossil fuels right now", and are instead saying "we need to make plans and execute them over the course of decades to slowly ease out the use of fossil fuels and ease in the use of green energy". Trying to paint "my side" as idiotic is a mischaracterization. I could just as easily paint your side as saying "We NeEd To UsE FoSsIl FuElS FOREVER, and OnCe ThEy RuN oUt AnD hAvE kIlLeD uS aLl, We WoN't HaVe To WoRrY aBoUt It AnYmOre". However, I don't do that unless provoked, because I know none of you have thought that hard about it. ;)

You're also committing an inverse of the "Appeal to Authority fallacy", saying that I'm not allowed to have an opinion on this matter because I don't have a background with electrical systems. I can have knowledge about a topic without having that been my job (I want to clarify that I'm not saying that their opinions are invalid, but I'm instead saying that my opinion is not invalidated by the fact that I'm not a professional in this field). I'm also assuming you don't have a background in that, in which case you would be a hypocrite for trying to denounce my opinion because it doesn't come from a professional (if you are a professional, ignore this last sentence).

Nuclear energy is another topic, but we do need a better solution to it than we have right now. It does less "short term" damage to the environment when compared to fossil fuels, but does more long term damage, and the use of it has been tied to racial discrimination (where Native American communities were in the area of nuclear-waste spills and the government did next-to-nothing to clean it up or warn them), and thus needs to be fixed.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 27, 2021, 03:27:00 PM
'Get jobs in the renewable energy industry' they say. And yet:

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/biden-looks-abroad-electric-vehicle-metals-blow-us-miners-2021-05-25/

But hey, no more mean tweets amirite?

This is the perfect solution fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy#:~:text=The%20perfect%20solution%20fallacy%20is,exist%20after%20it%20were%20implemented.&text=The%20fallacy%20is%20a%20type%20of%20false%20dilemma.

Just because there isn't a perfect solution doesn't mean we shouldn't try for a better solution. Coal, oil, and the other fossil fuels are a non-renewable resource that are polluting the environment and fueling climate change. Moving towards better options is the obviously better goal than no solution. What happens in other countries is an issue, but as the US is not in charge of other countries, it's harder to deal with issues there than in the US. Every liberal I know (including me) is against slavery and child labor, and want to create green-energy jobs in the US.

Stop with the fucking strawmen arguments, please. If you want to talk about a liberal's viewpoints, talk to a freaking liberal, not cherrypicking whatever news articles you want.
Well, I see someone's volunteered to be my chew toy. You gormless fucktard.

My comment was that despite Biden (and many other Democrat flunkies) blathering on about 'green jobs here in the U.S.'... they sure don't seem inclined to develop them. They'd rather throw money at foreign nations instead of putting our workforce to, y'know, work.

So basically they're going to murder entire industries, and then suffer brain damage and forget about all their promises of 'new jobs'.

I didn't say a thing about sustainability. Or perfect solutions. Only that the Democrats seem perfectly happy to fuck us in the ass.

But then, you like that, don't you?

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: UndyingDM on May 27, 2021, 03:49:14 PM
'Get jobs in the renewable energy industry' they say. And yet:

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/biden-looks-abroad-electric-vehicle-metals-blow-us-miners-2021-05-25/

But hey, no more mean tweets amirite?

This is the perfect solution fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy#:~:text=The%20perfect%20solution%20fallacy%20is,exist%20after%20it%20were%20implemented.&text=The%20fallacy%20is%20a%20type%20of%20false%20dilemma.

Just because there isn't a perfect solution doesn't mean we shouldn't try for a better solution. Coal, oil, and the other fossil fuels are a non-renewable resource that are polluting the environment and fueling climate change. Moving towards better options is the obviously better goal than no solution. What happens in other countries is an issue, but as the US is not in charge of other countries, it's harder to deal with issues there than in the US. Every liberal I know (including me) is against slavery and child labor, and want to create green-energy jobs in the US.

Stop with the fucking strawmen arguments, please. If you want to talk about a liberal's viewpoints, talk to a freaking liberal, not cherrypicking whatever news articles you want.
Well, I see someone's volunteered to be my chew toy. You gormless fucktard.

My comment was that despite Biden (and many other Democrat flunkies) blathering on about 'green jobs here in the U.S.'... they sure don't seem inclined to develop them. They'd rather throw money at foreign nations instead of putting our workforce to, y'know, work.

So basically they're going to murder entire industries, and then suffer brain damage and forget about all their promises of 'new jobs'.

I didn't say a thing about sustainability. Or perfect solutions. Only that the Democrats seem perfectly happy to fuck us in the ass.

But then, you like that, don't you?
Ooh! I've never been called that before! That's new. It's also new to be so viciously personally attacked with no provocation. I've heard conservatives been called "Broflakes" before, but I didn't know it was so true (at least in this case). Not only is this post homophobic (see the "fucked in the ass" quote), but it's also ableist (I'm assuming that "fucktard"'s etymological roots are from "fuck" and "retard", and retard is a derogatory term used on those with mental conditions, most often ASD, roughly equivalent to the n-word for mental disorders/conditions). Nice to see you letting your bigoted roots show. Be who you are at the core.

Except, you know, the Biden's infrastructure bill and the Green New Deal, both of which propose ways to transition to green jobs. Here you go, if you are okay reading "liberal propoganda" like CNBC:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/12/experts-on-green-jobs-in-bidens-climate-infrastructure-bill.html
https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/news-insights/the-green-new-deal-is-the-solution-to-the-jobs-issue/

I consider "fossil fuels" to be one "entire industry". And it's not so much "murder" as it is "putting down the out-of-control rabid dog before it kills us all".
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Brad on May 27, 2021, 03:51:08 PM
Oh great...another Shareblue retard. Don't you clowns have some buildings to burn or something?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: UndyingDM on May 27, 2021, 03:55:32 PM
Oh great...another Shareblue retard. Don't you clowns have some buildings to burn or something?
Your side seemed to have more than enough supplies for that when they raided the Capitol.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/alabama-man-charged-possession-eleven-molotov-cocktails-found-near-protest-us-capitol

"Retard" is an ableist term. Stop using it, please.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on May 27, 2021, 04:00:34 PM
  He said it.  He however, alot like you, has zero fucking idea as to how much the nation relies on fossil fuels, and how incredibly painful it would be to "go green" and completely ignore Hydrogen fire plants or nuclear power.   That is, unless you have a background you are not sharing with Power generation/plants/electrical systems or some specialized knowledge.
I never said you didn't. I apologize, but I am not very good at picking up on subtleties. I was assuming you were mocking him, but it wasn't explicitly stated, so I was not sure if you were.

I know how much our nation relies on fossil fuels. I know that about 81% of our energy comes from fossil fuels, and that transitioning to renewable resources will be expensive, labor-intensive, difficult, and take a long time to come into effect. That's precisely why liberals aren't saying "we need to stop using 100% of our fossil fuels right now", and are instead saying "we need to make plans and execute them over the course of decades to slowly ease out the use of fossil fuels and ease in the use of green energy". Trying to paint "my side" as idiotic is a mischaracterization. I could just as easily paint your side as saying "We NeEd To UsE FoSsIl FuElS FOREVER, and OnCe ThEy RuN oUt AnD hAvE kIlLeD uS aLl, We WoN't HaVe To WoRrY aBoUt It AnYmOre". However, I don't do that unless provoked, because I know none of you have thought that hard about it. ;)

You're also committing an inverse of the "Appeal to Authority fallacy", saying that I'm not allowed to have an opinion on this matter because I don't have a background with electrical systems. I can have knowledge about a topic without having that been my job (I want to clarify that I'm not saying that their opinions are invalid, but I'm instead saying that my opinion is not invalidated by the fact that I'm not a professional in this field). I'm also assuming you don't have a background in that, in which case you would be a hypocrite for trying to denounce my opinion because it doesn't come from a professional (if you are a professional, ignore this last sentence).

Nuclear energy is another topic, but we do need a better solution to it than we have right now. It does less "short term" damage to the environment when compared to fossil fuels, but does more long term damage, and the use of it has been tied to racial discrimination (where Native American communities were in the area of nuclear-waste spills and the government did next-to-nothing to clean it up or warn them), and thus needs to be fixed.

   I am not a hypocrite, I do in fact have a background working in power systems (Nuclear power plant operator).  Nuclear power does not do more long term damage.  I am not appealing to authority, I am saying if you have no idea what you are talking about, maybe learn more.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on May 27, 2021, 04:53:03 PM
   Honestly I am likely simply against any institution or power structure that grows too powerful/large.  I do not know what that is.

Remember when this was a liberal position?  Man those were better times...
No, I wasn't alive in the 1920s. Liberal in the US changed to pro big government in the 1920s as the brain trust types adopted European socialist philosophies, and it was cemented by the New Deal.

But to answer oggsmash: The political philosophies most associated with that are something like classic liberal (minarchist is basically a modern version), or libertarian (an-caps are the ones who take the philosophy to its natural extremes).
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on May 27, 2021, 04:55:15 PM
   Honestly I am likely simply against any institution or power structure that grows too powerful/large.  I do not know what that is.

Remember when this was a liberal position?  Man those were better times...
No, I wasn't alive in the 1920s. Liberal in the US changed to pro big government in the 1920s as the brain trust types adopted European socialist philosophies, and it was cemented by the New Deal.

But to answer oggsmash: The political philosophies most associated with that are something like classic liberal (minarchist is basically a modern version), or libertarian (an-caps are the ones who take the philosophy to its natural extremes).

   Well, I know, the problem is for the PEOPLE WHO LABEL THINGS NOW, they all call those ideologies far right as well.   It seems anything some people do not agree with is far right.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on May 27, 2021, 05:01:24 PM
I think all those coal miners should stop digging up coal and that the government should help them get whatever other job they can (ideally in green energy). I'm assuming that you're being facetious here, but I'm totally serious.

I would take your argument much more seriously if you were not on here burning up that non-renewable coal produced energy.

Its like when people think that milk comes from the Supermarket.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on May 27, 2021, 05:07:26 PM
Agree with nearly all of this. John Kim was describing the law & order party, and the excesses of the Wars on Drugs and Terror. Which have led to severe curtailments of basic rights, from the militarization of police, to the vast growth of the prison populations, the increase in police (and state) immunity, domestic surveillance and massive infringements of privacy with at best a token review, and much, much more.

But this isn't the law & order party vs. the freedom party. It's the law & order and national defense party, and the other law & order and national defense party that voted in lockstop on things like the Patriot Act. (https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/107-2001/s313) You can argue that the second party is slightly weaker on the law & order and national defense, but only slightly, and they're much bigger in support of the growth in size and power of the government.

(emphasis mine)

Pat, I specifically pointed out that the Democratic party was complicit with things like the Patriot Act. What I find strange is that you seem to agree that there were excesses in the Wars on Drugs and Terror that were clearly wrong. I would call them disastrous. The Democrats were complicit - but there were a minority of Democrats who opposed this, far moreso than Republicans.

Despite this acknowledgement, you then jump back to characterizing not going along with this ​as being "weak on law & order". The PATRIOT Act was opposed by 62 Democrats, 1 Independent (Bernie Sanders), and 3 Republicans. In the Senate, only 1 senator opposed - Democrat Russ Feingold. By standing up for civil liberties, I think these politicans *supported* law and order and wanted to strengthen it. In the first part, it seems like you're acknowledging this point, but then you reverse in how you characterize it.

I will ask to clarify: Do you think it is fair to characterize politicians who opposed the USA PATRIOT Act and other excesses as being "weak on law & order and national defense"?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on May 27, 2021, 05:24:17 PM
   Honestly I am likely simply against any institution or power structure that grows too powerful/large.  I do not know what that is.

Remember when this was a liberal position?  Man those were better times...
No, I wasn't alive in the 1920s. Liberal in the US changed to pro big government in the 1920s as the brain trust types adopted European socialist philosophies, and it was cemented by the New Deal.

But to answer oggsmash: The political philosophies most associated with that are something like classic liberal (minarchist is basically a modern version), or libertarian (an-caps are the ones who take the philosophy to its natural extremes).

   Well, I know, the problem is for the PEOPLE WHO LABEL THINGS NOW, they all call those ideologies far right as well.   It seems anything some people do not agree with is far right.
Those beliefs are all united, to a greater or lesser degree, by their belief in individual liberty. They are all direct heirs of the grandest ideals and most successful socials ideas of the Enlightenment. They are naturally opposed to, and polar opposites of, the collectivist totalitarian ideologies like fascism and communism. When one collectivist, totalitarian ideology is trying to distance itself from another collectivist, totalitarian ideology by lumping it in with its enemies, the solution is to not accept the attempt to redefine well established words for selfish political reasons, and instead reject those labels.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on May 27, 2021, 05:33:54 PM
Agree with nearly all of this. John Kim was describing the law & order party, and the excesses of the Wars on Drugs and Terror. Which have led to severe curtailments of basic rights, from the militarization of police, to the vast growth of the prison populations, the increase in police (and state) immunity, domestic surveillance and massive infringements of privacy with at best a token review, and much, much more.

But this isn't the law & order party vs. the freedom party. It's the law & order and national defense party, and the other law & order and national defense party that voted in lockstop on things like the Patriot Act. (https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/107-2001/s313) You can argue that the second party is slightly weaker on the law & order and national defense, but only slightly, and they're much bigger in support of the growth in size and power of the government.

(emphasis mine)

Pat, I specifically pointed out that the Democratic party was complicit with things like the Patriot Act. What I find strange is that you seem to agree that there were excesses in the Wars on Drugs and Terror that were clearly wrong. I would call them disastrous. The Democrats were complicit - but there were a minority of Democrats who opposed this, far moreso than Republicans.

Despite this acknowledgement, you then jump back to characterizing not going along with this ​as being "weak on law & order". The PATRIOT Act was opposed by 62 Democrats, 1 Independent (Bernie Sanders), and 3 Republicans. In the Senate, only 1 senator opposed - Democrat Russ Feingold. By standing up for civil liberties, I think these politicans *supported* law and order and wanted to strengthen it. In the first part, it seems like you're acknowledging this point, but then you reverse in how you characterize it.

I will ask to clarify: Do you think it is fair to characterize politicians who opposed the USA PATRIOT Act and other excesses as being "weak on law & order and national defense"?
It feels like we're talking past each other. I didn't say they were weak on law & order. I said slightly weaker. I was making clear the difference is small. The two parties are basically equivalent on that issue.

And if you look at the link I provided, the Patriot Act was approved, 98-1 in the Senate. 48 Democrats supported it, 49 Republicans, and 1 Independent. Only a single Democrat opposed (Feingold, Russell). Which is completely irrelevant, because that's almost total support. Almost nothing, except feel good motions, gets passed with that high a degree of concurrence. Even if you throw in the House, it was still overwhelming support from both parties.

And why do you think it's strange that I think there were excesses in the Wars on Drugs and Terror? They are both abominations, and I've never said anything else.

You seem to be starting with certain assumptions about what I believe that are seriously off-kilter.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on May 27, 2021, 05:50:44 PM
Nuclear energy is another topic, but we do need a better solution to it than we have right now. It does less "short term" damage to the environment when compared to fossil fuels, but does more long term damage, and the use of it has been tied to racial discrimination (where Native American communities were in the area of nuclear-waste spills and the government did next-to-nothing to clean it up or warn them), and thus needs to be fixed.

UndyingDM - I agree with you that coal is a major problem. I also think the phrase of "murdering the coal industry" is ridiculous, like how the asbestos industry was "murdered" or the cigarette industry was "murdered" by regulation. Industries aren't people. People can and do change jobs to do different things. Lots of industries have grown and shrunk over the years.

However, I strongly disagree with you about nuclear power. Nuclear power does far *less* long-term damage to the environment than other industries. Even renewable power like hydro and solar and wind have significant long-term impact, because they take up a lot of area that disrupts habitats. Solar panel construction produces a lot of toxic waste from the chemicals used, and panels have a limited lifetime requiring recycling. Nuclear power has a much smaller footprint, produces less waste, and its waste is more safely handled than any other toxic waste.

Anti-nuclear activists try to produce an inverted spin on this - by demanding that nuclear power be 100% safe and all waste perfectly guaranteed, while using a lesser standard for other industries. The clearest example of this is in waste - where for nuclear, if a waste material is toxic for 1000 years, then it must be stored to completely guarantee it not reach the environment for that entire time. But paradoxically, if a toxic waste material lasts *forever* (like cadmium, mercury, and lead), then it is held to a *lesser* standard, and disposed of casually, and it causes widespread environmental damage.


I think all those coal miners should stop digging up coal and that the government should help them get whatever other job they can (ideally in green energy). I'm assuming that you're being facetious here, but I'm totally serious.

I would take your argument much more seriously if you were not on here burning up that non-renewable coal produced energy.

Its like when people think that milk comes from the Supermarket.

How do you conclude that UndyingDM is burning up coal-produced energy? I don't see a location for him. I know that my home's power is 0% coal. The only coal plant in California is at the other end of the state in San Bernadino.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Brad on May 27, 2021, 05:51:09 PM
Oh great...another Shareblue retard. Don't you clowns have some buildings to burn or something?
Your side seemed to have more than enough supplies for that when they raided the Capitol.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/alabama-man-charged-possession-eleven-molotov-cocktails-found-near-protest-us-capitol

"Retard" is an ableist term. Stop using it, please.

Shut up, retard.

These sockpuppets funded by Shareblue are super annoying.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Brad on May 27, 2021, 05:55:31 PM
I would take your argument much more seriously if you were not on here burning up that non-renewable coal produced energy.

Its like when people think that milk comes from the Supermarket.

So you're saying Al Gore flying around in a private jet telling people the dangers of fossil fuels is...hypocritical? Surely you jest!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on May 27, 2021, 06:03:33 PM
'Get jobs in the renewable energy industry' they say. And yet:

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/biden-looks-abroad-electric-vehicle-metals-blow-us-miners-2021-05-25/

But hey, no more mean tweets amirite?

This is the perfect solution fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy#:~:text=The%20perfect%20solution%20fallacy%20is,exist%20after%20it%20were%20implemented.&text=The%20fallacy%20is%20a%20type%20of%20false%20dilemma.

Just because there isn't a perfect solution doesn't mean we shouldn't try for a better solution. Coal, oil, and the other fossil fuels are a non-renewable resource that are polluting the environment and fueling climate change. Moving towards better options is the obviously better goal than no solution. What happens in other countries is an issue, but as the US is not in charge of other countries, it's harder to deal with issues there than in the US. Every liberal I know (including me) is against slavery and child labor, and want to create green-energy jobs in the US.

Stop with the fucking strawmen arguments, please. If you want to talk about a liberal's viewpoints, talk to a freaking liberal, not cherrypicking whatever news articles you want.

Tell that to the people who are against natural gas, and want us to go 100% solar and wind right naow!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on May 27, 2021, 06:06:00 PM
Nuclear energy is another topic, but we do need a better solution to it than we have right now. It does less "short term" damage to the environment when compared to fossil fuels, but does more long term damage, and the use of it has been tied to racial discrimination (where Native American communities were in the area of nuclear-waste spills and the government did next-to-nothing to clean it up or warn them), and thus needs to be fixed.

UndyingDM - I agree with you that coal is a major problem. I also think the phrase of "murdering the coal industry" is ridiculous, like how the asbestos industry was "murdered" or the cigarette industry was "murdered" by regulation. Industries aren't people. People can and do change jobs to do different things. Lots of industries have grown and shrunk over the years.

Asbestos and cigarettes had clear negative aspects that could be directly addressed.
"Climate change" has been a vague, shifting goalpost since it's inception.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on May 27, 2021, 06:18:01 PM
Do you think it is fair to characterize politicians who opposed the USA PATRIOT Act and other excesses as being "weak on law & order and national defense"?
It feels like we're talking past each other. I didn't say they were weak on law & order. I said slightly weaker. I was making clear the difference is small. The two parties are basically equivalent on that issue.

I'm not taking issue with the term "slightly". Whether its "slightly" or "somewhat" or any other level, you're still saying that it is being "weaker on law & order" compared to the other side. That is pejorative and false phrasing that is used by authoritarians. I do not think that being pro-civil-rights makes me against law & order, which is why I oppose that phrasing. For example, I might say that Bernie Sanders and Russ Feingold were "definitely stronger on civil rights". I think it would be pejorative to say that they were "weaker on law & order".

So if you say that ​the Democratic party is only "slightly stronger on civil rights", then I'd agree with you. Your "slightly" characterization is correct.

To my mind, I don't think the two are completely equivalent on this point, but that seems more like a question of perspective. In general, I feel the two parties are very close to each other on a lot of issues - which makes the current partisanship all the weirder where both sides are saying that the other are completely insane demons.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on May 27, 2021, 06:24:31 PM
Do you think it is fair to characterize politicians who opposed the USA PATRIOT Act and other excesses as being "weak on law & order and national defense"?
It feels like we're talking past each other. I didn't say they were weak on law & order. I said slightly weaker. I was making clear the difference is small. The two parties are basically equivalent on that issue.

I'm not taking issue with the term "slightly". Whether its "slightly" or "somewhat" or any other level, you're still saying that it is being "weaker on law & order" compared to the other side. That is pejorative and false phrasing that is used by authoritarians.
Okay, I tried. Many times. This time, I literally explained what I meant, you're saying no that's not true, and that I'm an authoritarian even though I'm arguing the exact opposite. You talk about wanting to have a civil discourse, and pull this shit? Fuck that, and fuck you, you miserable piece of shit. I've given up on you.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on May 27, 2021, 06:25:58 PM
Asbestos and cigarettes had clear negative aspects that could be directly addressed.
"Climate change" has been a vague, shifting goalpost since it's inception.

One doesn't have to accept climate change at all for coal to be a problem. Coal power releases mercury, lead, sulfur dioxide, arsenic, and particulates into the air. Coal power is responsible for nearly half of all U.S. mercury emissions, for example.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on May 27, 2021, 06:56:51 PM
Okay, I tried. Many times. This time, I literally explained what I meant, you're saying no that's not true, and that I'm an authoritarian even though I'm arguing the exact opposite. You talk about wanting to have a civil discourse, and pull this shit? Fuck that, and fuck you, you miserable piece of shit. I've given up on you.

Pat, I'm not saying anything about you or your internal positions, and I don't mean this to be an attack on you.

I am criticizing the language that you are using, which isn't the same. People can use the wrong language that fails to express what they intend. I think this is one of those cases.

From my point of view, I feel like calling pro-civil-rights support "weak on law & order" falsely characterizes a movement that I support, and thus me.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on May 27, 2021, 07:05:27 PM
I think all those coal miners should stop digging up coal and that the government should help them get whatever other job they can (ideally in green energy). I'm assuming that you're being facetious here, but I'm totally serious.

I would take your argument much more seriously if you were not on here burning up that non-renewable coal produced energy.

Its like when people think that milk comes from the Supermarket.

How do you conclude that UndyingDM is burning up coal-produced energy? I don't see a location for him. I know that my home's power is 0% coal. The only coal plant in California is at the other end of the state in San Bernadino.

Lets pretend for a moment that you are indeed using electricity produced by 0% coal.

What about the device that you are using?  Your phone in your pocket?  The Solar Panels on your roof? 

They do not spring from the ground fully formed, they need to be forged and you can not use solar power to do that.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on May 27, 2021, 07:12:21 PM
Greetings!

Oh, geesus. The Democrats are fucking weak on "Law and Order." They coddle up to terrorists and traitor thug scum like BLM and ANTIFA. The Democrats' sobbing mantras about "Civil Rights" is mostly a front-load of circle-jerking to promote their grifting of more money from the unwashed masses, and to prop up their lock-step grip on minority votes--so they can continue to fucking dance like shit-covered monkeys and gain more political power.

It's beautiful to see that more and more minority folks are wising up to the bullshit fraud and ass-fucking that the Democrat Party has been doing to them for *decades*.

And no, I'm not alone in these observations. Black folks like Larry Elder, Walter Williams, Officer Brandon Tatum, and Candace Owens, have been saying the same things for many years.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on May 27, 2021, 07:26:03 PM
Asbestos and cigarettes had clear negative aspects that could be directly addressed.
"Climate change" has been a vague, shifting goalpost since it's inception.

One doesn't have to accept climate change at all for coal to be a problem. Coal power releases mercury, lead, sulfur dioxide, arsenic, and particulates into the air. Coal power is responsible for nearly half of all U.S. mercury emissions, for example.

I agree. If only we didn't have a bunch of vocal, prominent activists in government and media cluttering up the discussion with crazy shit like the world is going to end in 12 years, or climate "justice".
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on May 27, 2021, 07:29:33 PM
Okay, I tried. Many times. This time, I literally explained what I meant, you're saying no that's not true, and that I'm an authoritarian even though I'm arguing the exact opposite. You talk about wanting to have a civil discourse, and pull this shit? Fuck that, and fuck you, you miserable piece of shit. I've given up on you.

Pat, I'm not saying anything about you or your internal positions, and I don't mean this to be an attack on you.

I am criticizing the language that you are using, which isn't the same. People can use the wrong language that fails to express what they intend. I think this is one of those cases.

From my point of view, I feel like calling pro-civil-rights support "weak on law & order" falsely characterizes a movement that I support, and thus me.
I was saying that were fucking equivalent. That any difference is a rounding error. I explained this several times, after you misinterpreted my first post.

And it was a failure of comprehension on your part, not a communication failure on mine, because I used clear rhetorical techniques. In that post, I used the exact same terminology to describe the two parties, including heavy repetition (how many times did I say "law & order"?), which is a narrative method to indicate equivalence. A very strong one, in fact. It's the verbal equivalent of a thudding drum beat. The "slightly less", by contrast, indicated a very mild difference. An inconsequential one. I've explained this, at least twice now. And you've denied it, and in addition denied what I believe. Which is really shitty thing to do.

In fact, let's just look at what I actually said:
Quote
But this isn't the law & order party vs. the freedom party. It's the law & order and national defense party, and the other law & order and national defense party that voted in lockstop on things like the Patriot Act. You can argue that the second party is slightly weaker on the law & order and national defense, but only slightly, and they're much bigger in support of the growth in size and power of the government.
How the hell you can draw the conclusions you did from that?

And you are weak on civil rights. We've had this discussion before. You support the idea in general, but only when it's easy and convenient. You've come down in favor of deplatforming and the heckler veto, for instance. You're a lukewarm civil libertarian, at best.

And then you called me an authoritarian, to put a cherry on top of your shitty behavior.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on May 27, 2021, 07:53:49 PM
And it was a failure of comprehension on your part, not a communication failure on mine, because I used clear rhetorical techniques.
[color= Shasarak's sarcastic black]You repeat this so often and to so many different posters that it must be true.[/color]
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 27, 2021, 08:03:56 PM
'Get jobs in the renewable energy industry' they say. And yet:

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/biden-looks-abroad-electric-vehicle-metals-blow-us-miners-2021-05-25/

But hey, no more mean tweets amirite?

This is the perfect solution fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy#:~:text=The%20perfect%20solution%20fallacy%20is,exist%20after%20it%20were%20implemented.&text=The%20fallacy%20is%20a%20type%20of%20false%20dilemma.

Just because there isn't a perfect solution doesn't mean we shouldn't try for a better solution. Coal, oil, and the other fossil fuels are a non-renewable resource that are polluting the environment and fueling climate change. Moving towards better options is the obviously better goal than no solution. What happens in other countries is an issue, but as the US is not in charge of other countries, it's harder to deal with issues there than in the US. Every liberal I know (including me) is against slavery and child labor, and want to create green-energy jobs in the US.

Stop with the fucking strawmen arguments, please. If you want to talk about a liberal's viewpoints, talk to a freaking liberal, not cherrypicking whatever news articles you want.
Well, I see someone's volunteered to be my chew toy. You gormless fucktard.

My comment was that despite Biden (and many other Democrat flunkies) blathering on about 'green jobs here in the U.S.'... they sure don't seem inclined to develop them. They'd rather throw money at foreign nations instead of putting our workforce to, y'know, work.

So basically they're going to murder entire industries, and then suffer brain damage and forget about all their promises of 'new jobs'.

I didn't say a thing about sustainability. Or perfect solutions. Only that the Democrats seem perfectly happy to fuck us in the ass.

But then, you like that, don't you?
Ooh! I've never been called that before! That's new. It's also new to be so viciously personally attacked with no provocation. I've heard conservatives been called "Broflakes" before, but I didn't know it was so true (at least in this case). Not only is this post homophobic (see the "fucked in the ass" quote), but it's also ableist (I'm assuming that "fucktard"'s etymological roots are from "fuck" and "retard", and retard is a derogatory term used on those with mental conditions, most often ASD, roughly equivalent to the n-word for mental disorders/conditions). Nice to see you letting your bigoted roots show. Be who you are at the core.

Except, you know, the Biden's infrastructure bill and the Green New Deal, both of which propose ways to transition to green jobs. Here you go, if you are okay reading "liberal propoganda" like CNBC:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/12/experts-on-green-jobs-in-bidens-climate-infrastructure-bill.html
https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/news-insights/the-green-new-deal-is-the-solution-to-the-jobs-issue/

I consider "fossil fuels" to be one "entire industry". And it's not so much "murder" as it is "putting down the out-of-control rabid dog before it kills us all".
The Green Nude Eel is a grift. It was a grift under Obama; it'll be a grift under Biden. Period.

You can sit there and lecture me on how 'we're gonna have so many jobs!', yeah, but I am literally pointing out that the Biden Misadministration has already started moving them offshore before they even get established!

But hey, no more mean tweets, right?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on May 27, 2021, 08:13:24 PM
And it was a failure of comprehension on your part, not a communication failure on mine, because I used clear rhetorical techniques.
[color= Shasarak's sarcastic black]You repeat this so often and to so many different posters that it must be true.[/color]
You'll notice a pattern: In every case, it happens because someone tells me what I think, and won't back down, when I explain what I do believe. It never used to happen, now it happens frequently. It seems to be a symptom of hyperpolarization.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on May 27, 2021, 08:21:09 PM
And it was a failure of comprehension on your part, not a communication failure on mine, because I used clear rhetorical techniques.
[color= Shasarak's sarcastic black]You repeat this so often and to so many different posters that it must be true.[/color]

Thjat doesnt sounds like me.

I probably would have gone with something a bit more punchy like: Its everyone else who is wrong.

Or maybe:

(https://thebernardshaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/simpsons-memes-no-its-the-children-who-are-wrong.jpg)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Brad on May 27, 2021, 09:02:09 PM
Imagine saying that you're responsible for 0% coal usage while USING A FUCKING COMPUTER ON THE INTERNET. My God...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on May 27, 2021, 09:37:37 PM
And it was a failure of comprehension on your part, not a communication failure on mine, because I used clear rhetorical techniques.
[color= Shasarak's sarcastic black]You repeat this so often and to so many different posters that it must be true.[/color]
You'll notice a pattern: In every case, it happens because someone tells me what I think, and won't back down, when I explain what I do believe. It never used to happen, now it happens frequently. It seems to be a symptom of hyperpolarization.

Pat why do you think aliens control Taco Bell to make burritos that contain snake meat? And don't pretend you don't. I know you think this, I just demand you explain why!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on May 27, 2021, 09:40:32 PM
How do you conclude that UndyingDM is burning up coal-produced energy? I don't see a location for him. I know that my home's power is 0% coal. The only coal plant in California is at the other end of the state in San Bernadino.

Lets pretend for a moment that you are indeed using electricity produced by 0% coal.

What about the device that you are using?  Your phone in your pocket?  The Solar Panels on your roof? 

They do not spring from the ground fully formed, they need to be forged and you can not use solar power to do that.

You're speaking as if the only two options for power are coal and solar power. A lot of forges currently use oil or natural gas rather than coal, and it's definitely possible to power them by other means - including solar power, as described in the article below.

Quote
Xcel Announces Deal to Power Steel Mill with Solar

Xcel Energy has announced an agreement with Lightsource BP and EVRAZ North America to develop a $250-million, 240-MW solar power facility in Pueblo, Colorado. The plant will provide power to the EVRAZ Rocky Mountain Steel facility in Pueblo. Xcel said the plant will be the largest on-site solar facility dedicated to a single company.

The Pueblo steel plant has long been powered by Xcel’s coal-fired Comanche Generating Station. The utility plans to close the two coal units at Comanche in 2022 and 2025, respectively, in each case at least 10 years ahead of schedule. The deal announced Sept. 27 for the solar plant has been discussed for months, and must still be approved by state regulators.
Source: https://www.powermag.com/xcel-announces-deal-to-power-steel-mill-with-solar/

See also https://ieefa.org/colorado-utility-to-power-steel-mill-with-new-solar-project/

I'm not touting solar as a panacea. Every power generation has its upsides and downsides, but that doesn't mean they are all equal. If you hold all of them to the same safety and environmental standards, coal is far worse than the others, and I think it should be phased out.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on May 27, 2021, 10:23:54 PM
And it was a failure of comprehension on your part, not a communication failure on mine, because I used clear rhetorical techniques.
[color= Shasarak's sarcastic black]You repeat this so often and to so many different posters that it must be true.[/color]
You'll notice a pattern: In every case, it happens because someone tells me what I think, and won't back down, when I explain what I do believe. It never used to happen, now it happens frequently. It seems to be a symptom of hyperpolarization.

Pat why do you think aliens control Taco Bell to make burritos that contain snake meat? And don't pretend you don't. I know you think this, I just demand you explain why!
I believe all of that.

The Taco Chihuahua aliens are Nordics, BTW. It's true, the real Mexicans are blonde haired, blue-eyed Scandinavians.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on May 27, 2021, 10:30:41 PM
How do you conclude that UndyingDM is burning up coal-produced energy? I don't see a location for him. I know that my home's power is 0% coal. The only coal plant in California is at the other end of the state in San Bernadino.

Lets pretend for a moment that you are indeed using electricity produced by 0% coal.

What about the device that you are using?  Your phone in your pocket?  The Solar Panels on your roof? 

They do not spring from the ground fully formed, they need to be forged and you can not use solar power to do that.

You're speaking as if the only two options for power are coal and solar power. A lot of forges currently use oil or natural gas rather than coal, and it's definitely possible to power them by other means - including solar power, as described in the article below.

Quote
Xcel Announces Deal to Power Steel Mill with Solar

Xcel Energy has announced an agreement with Lightsource BP and EVRAZ North America to develop a $250-million, 240-MW solar power facility in Pueblo, Colorado. The plant will provide power to the EVRAZ Rocky Mountain Steel facility in Pueblo. Xcel said the plant will be the largest on-site solar facility dedicated to a single company.

The Pueblo steel plant has long been powered by Xcel’s coal-fired Comanche Generating Station. The utility plans to close the two coal units at Comanche in 2022 and 2025, respectively, in each case at least 10 years ahead of schedule. The deal announced Sept. 27 for the solar plant has been discussed for months, and must still be approved by state regulators.
Source: https://www.powermag.com/xcel-announces-deal-to-power-steel-mill-with-solar/

See also https://ieefa.org/colorado-utility-to-power-steel-mill-with-new-solar-project/

I'm not touting solar as a panacea. Every power generation has its upsides and downsides, but that doesn't mean they are all equal. If you hold all of them to the same safety and environmental standards, coal is far worse than the others, and I think it should be phased out.

I accept that you do want to phase coal power generation out.  But unfortunately there is that second undecided step to your plan, what is going to fill the energy gap?

You say that California has 0% coal powered electricity production and at the same time also has rolling brownouts every summer.

Maybe you should check out Planet Of The Humans by Michael Moore which goes into the Green Energy scam a little more deeply.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on May 27, 2021, 10:34:31 PM

Maybe you should check out Planet Of The Humans by Michael Moore which goes into the Green Energy scam a little more deeply.
Michael Moore just lent his name to promote it. PotH is by Jeff Gibbs.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on May 27, 2021, 10:44:55 PM

Maybe you should check out Planet Of The Humans by Michael Moore which goes into the Green Energy scam a little more deeply.
Michael Moore just lent his name to promote it. PotH is by Jeff Gibbs.

I guess the promotion worked.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on May 27, 2021, 10:47:11 PM

Maybe you should check out Planet Of The Humans by Michael Moore which goes into the Green Energy scam a little more deeply.
Michael Moore just lent his name to promote it. PotH is by Jeff Gibbs.

I guess the promotion worked.
Somebody should do a documentary about that. They could call it Michael and Me.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on May 27, 2021, 11:07:04 PM

Maybe you should check out Planet Of The Humans by Michael Moore which goes into the Green Energy scam a little more deeply.
Michael Moore just lent his name to promote it. PotH is by Jeff Gibbs.

I guess the promotion worked.
Somebody should do a documentary about that. They could call it Michael and Me.

I wonder who should promote it?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on May 28, 2021, 12:24:00 AM
I accept that you do want to phase coal power generation out.  But unfortunately there is that second undecided step to your plan, what is going to fill the energy gap?

You say that California has 0% coal powered electricity production and at the same time also has rolling brownouts every summer.

Maybe you should check out Planet Of The Humans by Michael Moore which goes into the Green Energy scam a little more deeply.

Minor correction - California has one coal-powered electricity plant, but it's over 400 miles away from me, and I know I'm not drawing power from it.

As for what will fill the gap - I would say a mix of nuclear, wind, solar, hydro, as well as oil and natural gas. And yes, I've already seen Planet of the Humans - thanks for the recommendation. It's an important perspective. Solar and wind are not the panacea they are sometimes touted as, but that doesn't mean that there are no differences between anything and nothing matters. There are successful solar and wind installations - but there are also plenty of ill-conceived plans as well as complete scams. Plenty of other companies also aren't trustworthy - including coal companies.

As for brownouts, the average California service interruptions without major events is about 2 hours per customer per year, which is roughly the average in the U.S. If you include major events - which for us is mostly wildfires - then we have nearly 10 hours per year, which is high, but that doesn't reflect problems in power generation. For reference, Maine and West Virginia have higher interruption averages - while Michigan and Mississippi have similar.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=45796

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on May 28, 2021, 01:13:07 AM
I accept that you do want to phase coal power generation out.  But unfortunately there is that second undecided step to your plan, what is going to fill the energy gap?

You say that California has 0% coal powered electricity production and at the same time also has rolling brownouts every summer.

Maybe you should check out Planet Of The Humans by Michael Moore which goes into the Green Energy scam a little more deeply.

Minor correction - California has one coal-powered electricity plant, but it's over 400 miles away from me, and I know I'm not drawing power from it.

As for what will fill the gap - I would say a mix of nuclear, wind, solar, hydro, as well as oil and natural gas. And yes, I've already seen Planet of the Humans - thanks for the recommendation. It's an important perspective. Solar and wind are not the panacea they are sometimes touted as, but that doesn't mean that there are no differences between anything and nothing matters. There are successful solar and wind installations - but there are also plenty of ill-conceived plans as well as complete scams. Plenty of other companies also aren't trustworthy - including coal companies.

As for brownouts, the average California service interruptions without major events is about 2 hours per customer per year, which is roughly the average in the U.S. If you include major events - which for us is mostly wildfires - then we have nearly 10 hours per year, which is high, but that doesn't reflect problems in power generation. For reference, Maine and West Virginia have higher interruption averages - while Michigan and Mississippi have similar.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=45796

5 times more then the National average?  Thats bad.  Thats 395 million person hours of no power.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on May 28, 2021, 01:44:34 AM
As for brownouts, the average California service interruptions without major events is about 2 hours per customer per year, which is roughly the average in the U.S. If you include major events - which for us is mostly wildfires - then we have nearly 10 hours per year, which is high, but that doesn't reflect problems in power generation. For reference, Maine and West Virginia have higher interruption averages - while Michigan and Mississippi have similar.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=45796

5 times more then the National average?  Thats bad.  Thats 395 million person hours of no power.

Did you click to see the chart? 2 hours is the national average without major events, 5 hours is the national average with major events. (This is for 2019.)

So yeah, in 2019, we had double the national average with major events. Wildfires sucked. But it's not like coal power would have made our wildfires better. It's the fault of our forest management, not our renewable energy.

EDITED TO ADD: In 2016, the largest service interruptions were South Carolina, North Carolina, West Virginia, and Maine. It varies year to year based on local problems.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=35652
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on May 28, 2021, 07:49:24 AM
  Hydrogen Fire plants are the best gap fillers and probably the best big energy producer IMO.   What all of you guys need to ask is why have you never heard of this?   Your politicians are fucking retards is the likely answer.   They also do not understand or endorse nuclear power, which is the best source of power until we have widespread hydrogen fire plants.

    So because of all the idiots in congress who never mention nuclear or hydrogen fire (the same fucktards who hide under desks at the sound of a slamming door, yet think they should be able to send soldiers to combat) I know for certain they are not in any way serious people. 

   Regarding Cali and being coal free (but damn sure not fossil fuel free) they also import over a third of their power dont they?   The way power grids work, and wattage hours are sold between plants and grids, NO ONE is going to be 100 percent coal free simply due to physical distance.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on May 28, 2021, 07:52:45 AM
As for brownouts, the average California service interruptions without major events is about 2 hours per customer per year, which is roughly the average in the U.S. If you include major events - which for us is mostly wildfires - then we have nearly 10 hours per year, which is high, but that doesn't reflect problems in power generation. For reference, Maine and West Virginia have higher interruption averages - while Michigan and Mississippi have similar.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=45796

5 times more then the National average?  Thats bad.  Thats 395 million person hours of no power.

Did you click to see the chart? 2 hours is the national average without major events, 5 hours is the national average with major events. (This is for 2019.)

So yeah, in 2019, we had double the national average with major events. Wildfires sucked. But it's not like coal power would have made our wildfires better. It's the fault of our forest management, not our renewable energy.

EDITED TO ADD: In 2016, the largest service interruptions were South Carolina, North Carolina, West Virginia, and Maine. It varies year to year based on local problems.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=35652

   Those states interruptions are due to storms and having green trees.  Something that is no where near as common in Cali.  A power interruption from storms and brown outs from lack of juice are very, very different circumstances.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Brad on May 28, 2021, 10:06:46 AM
You're a special kind of retard if you think wind and solar can put any sort of dent into the gap that would be left by completely eliminating oil and coal. Hydro is actually really good, but most of the places in the US that are good candidates for dams already have them. Nuke COULD do it, but of course dumbfucks in California and other leftist shitholes just cannot bear to have nuclear power plants anywhere. For all the crap Texas got during the fucking snow storm (99% of THAT problem was bureaucratic nonsense caused specifically by "green energy" advocates...leftists strike again!), San Antonio and most of the valley pull power from a nuke site which means lower than the national average for kWH.

Anyway, what will happen is the US gets rid of oil and coal and we have no power because LOL WIND, so we end up buying power from somewhere else, probably a Chinese-owned coal burning plant down in Mexico and we'll get charged 50X what it's worth. This whole line of reasoning is purely political and has nothing to do with reality.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on May 28, 2021, 11:15:30 AM
Pretty much everything that has to do with green energy is political. They claim it's nearly as cost effective as <some evil non-green energy>, but don't include subsidies, or don't include standby costs, or don't include lifecycle costs, or don't include storage costs, or don't include transmission costs. They fudge the numbers as badly as they do with the government debt.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Brad on May 28, 2021, 11:37:04 AM
Pretty much everything that has to do with green energy is political. They claim it's nearly as cost effective as <some evil non-green energy>, but don't include subsidies, or don't include standby costs, or don't include lifecycle costs, or don't include storage costs, or don't include transmission costs. They fudge the numbers as badly as they do with the government debt.

You mean like Chevy Volts costing $30k to buy when they actually cost about $75k to make but were heavily subsidized by the Federal government so people would buy them? That sort of stuff?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on May 28, 2021, 11:48:32 AM
Pretty much everything that has to do with green energy is political. They claim it's nearly as cost effective as <some evil non-green energy>, but don't include subsidies, or don't include standby costs, or don't include lifecycle costs, or don't include storage costs, or don't include transmission costs. They fudge the numbers as badly as they do with the government debt.

You mean like Chevy Volts costing $30k to buy when they actually cost about $75k to make but were heavily subsidized by the Federal government so people would buy them? That sort of stuff?
Or including the disposal costs of wind turbines once they pass their expected lifespan. Or extrapolating the costs of wind and solar power in areas that are well suited to it to the rest of the country. Or including the costs of non-clean energy plants that have to kept running and on standby to take up the slack when intermittent energy sources like solar or wind are intermittent. Or padding the green energy numbers by including biofuels (i.e. burning forests). Or ignoring the massive (trillion$) infrastructure upgrades needed to support green energy. Or....

We're at capacity for hydro. Wind and solar are already in place in the areas where it makes the most sense, and they're also useful in other circumstances where a small amount of power needs to be generated in an area where we'd have to extend the power grid (those solar panels on certain traffic lights, for instance). But otherwise, we should be switching to gas and nuclear instead of pretending that wind and solar are miracle energies, and pushing money into basic research on things like batteries and piezoelectric panels instead of subsidizing consumer end-products.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on May 28, 2021, 01:33:44 PM
So yeah, in 2019, we had double the national average with major events. Wildfires sucked. But it's not like coal power would have made our wildfires better. It's the fault of our forest management, not our renewable energy.

   Those states interruptions are due to storms and having green trees.  Something that is no where near as common in Cali.  A power interruption from storms and brown outs from lack of juice are very, very different circumstances.[/quote]

oggsmash - As I said, the major event power outages in 2019 California were overwhelmingly from wildfires. Lack of juice is not considered a major event - so it gets counted in the non-major-event total. If you look at the data in the page below, that is the dark blue in the graph. As I said earlier, for California it is 2 hours per customer per year which is the same as the national average.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=45796

Below are the graphs for 2017 and 2018, for reference. California is not listed in top five for those years. There is a source to download the complete data, but it's in Excel rather than easy-to-read graphs.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=35652
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=37652


We're at capacity for hydro. Wind and solar are already in place in the areas where it makes the most sense, and they're also useful in other circumstances where a small amount of power needs to be generated in an area where we'd have to extend the power grid (those solar panels on certain traffic lights, for instance). But otherwise, we should be switching to gas and nuclear instead of pretending that wind and solar are miracle energies, and pushing money into basic research on things like batteries and piezoelectric panels instead of subsidizing consumer end-products.

As I think you know, I fully support switching to nuclear - and I'll accept gas over coal. Still, while I agree that wind and solar are not miracle energies, they are nowhere near capacity in the U.S. For example, Arizona has less than 10% solar power, and I think that is far less than it's potential. It could easily have 30% or more solar given the environment. Much of Germany's solar investment was dumb, but there's a huge difference between Arizona and Germany in terms of solar efficiency.

And while hydropower is closer to capacity, it still has significant room to grow. A DOE report estimated that it could grow from 101 gigawatts (GW) of capacity in 2015 to nearly 150 GW by 2050.

https://www.energy.gov/eere/water/articles/hydropower-vision-new-chapter-america-s-1st-renewable-electricity-source

The main thing holding hydro back is misguided environmentalism. For example, California doesn't consider hydro power to be "renewable", and so is disfavoring hydro power as well as nuclear in its plans because of its legislated renewable mandate, and blocks any new hydro or nuclear plants.

More broadly, yes there are boondoggles from green energy companies - but oil and coal companies lie just as much as the green energy companies. They're all companies looking for a profit.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on May 28, 2021, 02:16:44 PM
We're at capacity for hydro. Wind and solar are already in place in the areas where it makes the most sense, and they're also useful in other circumstances where a small amount of power needs to be generated in an area where we'd have to extend the power grid (those solar panels on certain traffic lights, for instance). But otherwise, we should be switching to gas and nuclear instead of pretending that wind and solar are miracle energies, and pushing money into basic research on things like batteries and piezoelectric panels instead of subsidizing consumer end-products.

As I think you know, I fully support switching to nuclear - and I'll accept gas over coal. Still, while I agree that wind and solar are not miracle energies, they are nowhere near capacity in the U.S. For example, Arizona has less than 10% solar power, and I think that is far less than it's potential. It could easily have 30% or more solar given the environment. Much of Germany's solar investment was dumb, but there's a huge difference between Arizona and Germany in terms of solar efficiency.

And while hydropower is closer to capacity, it still has significant room to grow. A DOE report estimated that it could grow from 101 gigawatts (GW) of capacity in 2015 to nearly 150 GW by 2050.

https://www.energy.gov/eere/water/articles/hydropower-vision-new-chapter-america-s-1st-renewable-electricity-source

The main thing holding hydro back is misguided environmentalism. For example, California doesn't consider hydro power to be "renewable", and so is disfavoring hydro power as well as nuclear in its plans because of its legislated renewable mandate, and blocks any new hydro or nuclear plants.

More broadly, yes there are boondoggles from green energy companies - but oil and coal companies lie just as much as the green energy companies. They're all companies looking for a profit.
At least read what you reply to. I said we're at capacity for hydro. That's literally the sentence I used. Not wind, not solar. Hydro.

The low hanging fruit from solar and wind have already been plucked. They're talking about doing things like building giant flotillas of windmills dozens of miles offshore, because they've run out of the best options. And that's not even addressing the issues with intermittency, transmission, lifecycle costs (old solar panels and wind turbines are expensive to get rid of), or even grid connections (the US grid is fairly old, would require a major refurbish to support it).

The report about the increase in hydro is interesting, but mostly irrelevant. Even assuming energy use doesn't grow (ha), hydro is only 6.6% of US's power, so it would still be under 10%. The real question is does it address all the environmental issues? The argument against damming every river is that it disrupts the ecology. They've created salmon ladders and the like, but is it enough?

And you're lying by selectively trying to change the topic by saying both green and non-green energy companies lie to support their bottom line. I wasn't talking about non-green companies, so that's whataboutism. And more than that, I wasn't even talking about companies. I was talking about government subsidies, and how the money is wasted on consumer products instead of basic research.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on May 28, 2021, 02:17:40 PM
  Guys, Hyrdogen Fire.  Look into it.  Buddy of mine who has worked over 20 years in Nuclear Power is now at a hydrogen fire plant.  It is GREEN and it is very, very efficient. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on May 28, 2021, 05:22:42 PM
As for brownouts, the average California service interruptions without major events is about 2 hours per customer per year, which is roughly the average in the U.S. If you include major events - which for us is mostly wildfires - then we have nearly 10 hours per year, which is high, but that doesn't reflect problems in power generation. For reference, Maine and West Virginia have higher interruption averages - while Michigan and Mississippi have similar.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=45796

5 times more then the National average?  Thats bad.  Thats 395 million person hours of no power.

Did you click to see the chart? 2 hours is the national average without major events, 5 hours is the national average with major events. (This is for 2019.)

So yeah, in 2019, we had double the national average with major events. Wildfires sucked. But it's not like coal power would have made our wildfires better. It's the fault of our forest management, not our renewable energy.

EDITED TO ADD: In 2016, the largest service interruptions were South Carolina, North Carolina, West Virginia, and Maine. It varies year to year based on local problems.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=35652

Wildfires are entirely preventable though so I would not classify them as major events.

Especially for the worlds fifth biggest economy.

How much carbon did they release into the atmosphere?  Is California even taking climate change seriously?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on June 01, 2021, 09:14:18 PM
How do you conclude that UndyingDM is burning up coal-produced energy? I don't see a location for him. I know that my home's power is 0% coal. The only coal plant in California is at the other end of the state in San Bernadino.

Lets pretend for a moment that you are indeed using electricity produced by 0% coal.

What about the device that you are using?  Your phone in your pocket?  The Solar Panels on your roof? 

They do not spring from the ground fully formed, they need to be forged and you can not use solar power to do that.

You're speaking as if the only two options for power are coal and solar power. A lot of forges currently use oil or natural gas rather than coal, and it's definitely possible to power them by other means - including solar power, as described in the article below.

Quote
Xcel Announces Deal to Power Steel Mill with Solar

Xcel Energy has announced an agreement with Lightsource BP and EVRAZ North America to develop a $250-million, 240-MW solar power facility in Pueblo, Colorado. The plant will provide power to the EVRAZ Rocky Mountain Steel facility in Pueblo. Xcel said the plant will be the largest on-site solar facility dedicated to a single company.

The Pueblo steel plant has long been powered by Xcel’s coal-fired Comanche Generating Station. The utility plans to close the two coal units at Comanche in 2022 and 2025, respectively, in each case at least 10 years ahead of schedule. The deal announced Sept. 27 for the solar plant has been discussed for months, and must still be approved by state regulators.
Source: https://www.powermag.com/xcel-announces-deal-to-power-steel-mill-with-solar/

See also https://ieefa.org/colorado-utility-to-power-steel-mill-with-new-solar-project/

I'm not touting solar as a panacea. Every power generation has its upsides and downsides, but that doesn't mean they are all equal. If you hold all of them to the same safety and environmental standards, coal is far worse than the others, and I think it should be phased out.

I accept that you do want to phase coal power generation out.  But unfortunately there is that second undecided step to your plan, what is going to fill the energy gap?

You say that California has 0% coal powered electricity production and at the same time also has rolling brownouts every summer.

Maybe you should check out Planet Of The Humans by Michael Moore which goes into the Green Energy scam a little more deeply.

You are, as always, completely full of shit. California had rolling blackouts in 2001 (because energy traders manipulated energy supply to drive up prices - which resulted in criminal convictions). Their next rolling blackout was 2020. NINETEEN YEARS between them. It lasted TWO HOURS TOTAL. And it was because of a record heat wave which caused everyone to blast their air conditioners all at once. It's not like coal power would have changed that equation - they are not going to let a plant sit for 19 years on the possibility demand will exceed supply once every other decade for a couple of hours.  They needed more battery capacity is the issue.

For comparison, the Texas blackouts were the largest planned blackouts in U.S. history. But somehow you're silent on that one.

Sometimes I think some conservative web sources tell tall tales about the boogeyman of California in the same way some Palestinian web sources tell tall tales about Jews in Israel eating Palestinian babies.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 01, 2021, 09:41:30 PM
https://climatechangedispatch.com/what-really-led-to-californias-incessant-blackouts-a-timeline/

This is the result of 20 years of Democrat-driven fuckery, the Governator's term notwithstanding.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on June 01, 2021, 10:41:39 PM
https://climatechangedispatch.com/what-really-led-to-californias-incessant-blackouts-a-timeline/

This is the result of 20 years of Democrat-driven fuckery, the Governator's term notwithstanding.

Hilarious. Your link refutes Shasarak's claim, "California experiences rolling blackouts due to insufficient electricity supplies for the first time since 2001." It even mentions the 2001 black was "market manipulation by suppliers and energy traders." Both exactly as I said. But according to Sharack, California has had this issue "every Summer." That's right, once every 19 years, for two hours, is "every Summer" folks.

Meanwhile, how many days was the Texas blackout?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: yancy on June 01, 2021, 10:57:50 PM
The map on this generic site tracking power outages is fairly amusing to look at, it's almost as if one state jumps right up raising it's hand saying "Me! Me! I'm an especially miserable shithole!!"

https://poweroutage.us/


Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on June 01, 2021, 11:27:45 PM
You are, as always, completely full of shit. California had rolling blackouts in 2001 (because energy traders manipulated energy supply to drive up prices - which resulted in criminal convictions). Their next rolling blackout was 2020. NINETEEN YEARS between them. It lasted TWO HOURS TOTAL. And it was because of a record heat wave which caused everyone to blast their air conditioners all at once. It's not like coal power would have changed that equation - they are not going to let a plant sit for 19 years on the possibility demand will exceed supply once every other decade for a couple of hours.  They needed more battery capacity is the issue.

For comparison, the Texas blackouts were the largest planned blackouts in U.S. history. But somehow you're silent on that one.

https://climatechangedispatch.com/what-really-led-to-californias-incessant-blackouts-a-timeline/

This is the result of 20 years of Democrat-driven fuckery, the Governator's term notwithstanding.

The curious thing I read is that Ghostmaker's link at least partially confirms what Mistwell is saying. According to the link "2020: California experiences rolling blackouts due to insufficient electricity supplies for the first time since 2001.

California does have problems, and I agree that both nuclear and fossil fuels should remain in the mix - especially keeping Diablo Canyon open is a cause I support. But I think the headline is exaggerating California's problems compared to other states.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on June 01, 2021, 11:34:15 PM
The map on this generic site tracking power outages is fairly amusing to look at, it's almost as if one state jumps right up raising it's hand saying "Me! Me! I'm an especially miserable shithole!!"

https://poweroutage.us/

Showing by absolute number is a pointless comparison. California is the largest state in the union by a lot, so it's always going to have the highest absolute numbers - but that says nothing about the quality of service per customer. When shown per customer, California is average in terms of ordinary blackouts (i.e. problems in power generation). Service is bad when dealing with wildfires, but that isn't related to power generation.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: yancy on June 01, 2021, 11:52:23 PM
Well, I didn't think about it that much, and in fact, I found that map by mistake while google searching for 'map of which states are the biggest shitholes'. This particular map just incidentally turned out to contain power outages.

But based on what you're saying, if we were so inclined, we could look at the population of California, and the population of Texas, and divide one by the other, and then look at the outages in California, and the outages in Texas, and divide one by the other, and based on that, draw certain very broad conclusions about which of these states has more problems delivering power to its residents.

I admit that doing that would be gratuitous, since we already know the answer. The same could be said about my original 'shithole' question, I already strongly suspected the answer to that one, too :/
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on June 02, 2021, 12:14:21 AM
Well, I didn't think about it that much, and in fact, I found that map by mistake while google searching for 'map of which states are the biggest shitholes'. This particular map just incidentally turned out to contain power outages.

But based on what you're saying, if we were so inclined, we could look at the population of California, and the population of Texas, and divide one by the other, and then look at the outages in California, and the outages in Texas, and divide one by the other, and based on that, draw certain very broad conclusions about which of these states has more problems delivering power to its residents.

I admit that doing that would be gratuitous, since we already know the answer. The same could be said about my original 'shithole' question, I already strongly suspected the answer to that one, too :/

Greetings!

That's fucking right, Yancy! ;D

I notice how Jhkim is always attempting to defend California bureaucratic policies, whether it is the fucking wildfire clusterfuck, California's economic policies, tax policies, criminal justice system, whatever.

I'm originally from California and lived there for most of my life--over 40 years.

California is a fucking corrupt shithole, and is choking on more and more inefficiency, corruption, and cock-sucking Marxism every day. The goddamned fucking Liberal Democrats there have brainwashed and ass-fucked their way into holding onto power throughout the state--especially in Sacramento, San Francisco, the greater Bay Area, Los Angeles, and even San Diego, increasingly. Like the Pod Mutants from "Invasion of the Body Snatchers"--through control of the schools, the media, and entertainment, they have gradually, year by year, brainwashed more people into being mindless, Marxist slaves to the elitist, globalist, Welfare state, which the Marxist Democrat have then leveraged that influence to gain a stranglehold on political power. Now that they have been sitting in the throne of power for years now, they continue to open the gates to the whole fucking sewer. Sky high taxes, letting criminals out of prison, corruption in handling and spending tax-payer money--raising gasoline taxes to pack their friend's asses, losing a billion fucking dollars at the LAUSD, promoting more rainbow hippos and CRT, anti-white racism, punishing businesses so they leave the state--thereby creating more unemployed people, which in turn depend even more on the goddamned government--all the while conveniently creating a multi-layered budgetary "crisis"--where, yes, the Democrat politicians shrieking solution is to raise taxes even further! Armies of filthy, homeless scum and drug addicts, more and more crime, corruption, and poverty.

Geesus. Yeah, California used to be a beautiful, wonderful state. Like fucking paradise in many, many areas. The state is being swallowed in an endless tidalwave of shit now though. It has been choking on this Marxist Democrat corruption for a good 20 years now, and isn't likely to change any time soon. California is fucked.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on June 02, 2021, 12:39:34 AM
But based on what you're saying, if we were so inclined, we could look at the population of California, and the population of Texas, and divide one by the other, and then look at the outages in California, and the outages in Texas, and divide one by the other, and based on that, draw certain very broad conclusions about which of these states has more problems delivering power to its residents.

I admit that doing that would be gratuitous, since we already know the answer. The same could be said about my original 'shithole' question, I already strongly suspected the answer to that one, too :/

Ideally, you should also weight the outages by the number of customers affected and the time spent in outages. But I already linked that data previously from the U.S. Energy Administration page. Unfortunately, it only shows the top five and bottom five states rather than a complete coverage.

California only appears in the top 5 in 2019, and as clearly shown - it is from major events (in this case wildfires), not ordinary operation. Its ordinary operation is roughly average for the country. Texas doesn't appear in either the top 5 or bottom 5 of any of the years I checked.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=45796
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=35652
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=37652
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: yancy on June 02, 2021, 06:08:09 AM

Greetings!

That's fucking right, Yancy! ;D

I notice how Jhkim is always attempting to defend California bureaucratic policies, whether it is the fucking wildfire clusterfuck, California's economic policies, tax policies, criminal justice system, whatever.

I'm originally from California and lived there for most of my life--over 40 years.

Yeah man, I was born there too, but thankfully my folks got the fuck out when I was still young enough to have some life worth living.

If I were a liberal, and living in that toilet of a state, knowing that the policies *I* support have helped to take a formerly beautiful place straight down the drain, would be a bitter pill to swallow (presuming I could even get any potable water there to wash it down with.)

I might even start cherry picking statistics from carefully curated internet sources, to make it seem like everything was hunky-dory, who knows?




Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 02, 2021, 08:10:59 AM
https://climatechangedispatch.com/what-really-led-to-californias-incessant-blackouts-a-timeline/

This is the result of 20 years of Democrat-driven fuckery, the Governator's term notwithstanding.

Hilarious. Your link refutes Shasarak's claim, "California experiences rolling blackouts due to insufficient electricity supplies for the first time since 2001." It even mentions the 2001 black was "market manipulation by suppliers and energy traders." Both exactly as I said. But according to Sharack, California has had this issue "every Summer." That's right, once every 19 years, for two hours, is "every Summer" folks.

Meanwhile, how many days was the Texas blackout?
How long have you had problems with attention deficit disorder?

You're arguing that California hasn't had problems until recently. I'm making the point that they've had problems for twenty years thanks to their stupid policies and that it's now coming to a boil.

But then, most leftists like to claim all their woes are bad luck or wreckers. Hope you enjoy paying six to eight bucks for gas this summer, bitch.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on June 02, 2021, 03:27:18 PM
  Texas power issues come from trying to use that sweet green energy, having a completely independent power grid (that has pluses and minuses), and having to provide power for the DROVES of californians fleeing from california to Texas. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on June 17, 2021, 08:39:42 PM
Did I miss the discussion of the FBI being behind the organisation of the mostly peaceful Capitol walking tours in January?

I thought that jhkim would have been all over that story as another reason to defund the police.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on June 17, 2021, 09:26:18 PM
Did I miss the discussion of the FBI being behind the organisation of the mostly peaceful Capitol walking tours in January?

I thought that jhkim would have been all over that story as another reason to defund the police.
Pwr a.judge, no reasonable person should believe anything that Tucker Carlson says.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on June 17, 2021, 10:00:26 PM
Did I miss the discussion of the FBI being behind the organisation of the mostly peaceful Capitol walking tours in January?

I thought that jhkim would have been all over that story as another reason to defund the police.
Pwr a.judge, no reasonable person should believe anything that Tucker Carlson says.

Have you seen a reasonable person around here?

Thought not.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Trond on June 17, 2021, 10:23:15 PM
Did I miss the discussion of the FBI being behind the organisation of the mostly peaceful Capitol walking tours in January?

I thought that jhkim would have been all over that story as another reason to defund the police.
Pwr a.judge, no reasonable person should believe anything that Tucker Carlson says.

No reasonable person should believe anything in the news these days. Always check multiple sources and use your best judgement. Tucker Carlson is definitely no more inaccurate than others in the news.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on June 18, 2021, 01:45:42 AM
Did I miss the discussion of the FBI being behind the organisation of the mostly peaceful Capitol walking tours in January?

I thought that jhkim would have been all over that story as another reason to defund the police.
Pwr a.judge, no reasonable person should believe anything that Tucker Carlson says.

What does Tucker have to do with this?  ???
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Eirikrautha on June 18, 2021, 09:48:06 AM
Did I miss the discussion of the FBI being behind the organisation of the mostly peaceful Capitol walking tours in January?

I thought that jhkim would have been all over that story as another reason to defund the police.
Pwr a.judge, no reasonable person should believe anything that Tucker Carlson says.

What does Tucker have to do with this?  ???

Standard ad hominem.  He can't attack the validity of the information, so he attacks one of the many sources.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on June 18, 2021, 01:01:17 PM
Did I miss the discussion of the FBI being behind the organisation of the mostly peaceful Capitol walking tours in January?

I thought that jhkim would have been all over that story as another reason to defund the police.
Pwr a.judge, no reasonable person should believe anything that Tucker Carlson says.

What does Tucker have to do with this?  ???

Standard ad hominem.  He can't attack the validity of the information, so he attacks one of the many sources.
Can you point out a more reputable source for that nonsense?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Eirikrautha on June 18, 2021, 04:22:10 PM
Did I miss the discussion of the FBI being behind the organisation of the mostly peaceful Capitol walking tours in January?

I thought that jhkim would have been all over that story as another reason to defund the police.
Pwr a.judge, no reasonable person should believe anything that Tucker Carlson says.

What does Tucker have to do with this?  ???

Standard ad hominem.  He can't attack the validity of the information, so he attacks one of the many sources.
Can you point out a more reputable source for that nonsense?
Sure.  Define "reputable."  Because my guess is that you're going to define it in such a way to dismiss whoever would report it...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on June 18, 2021, 04:35:30 PM
Did I miss the discussion of the FBI being behind the organisation of the mostly peaceful Capitol walking tours in January?

I thought that jhkim would have been all over that story as another reason to defund the police.
Pwr a.judge, no reasonable person should believe anything that Tucker Carlson says.

What does Tucker have to do with this?  ???

Standard ad hominem.  He can't attack the validity of the information, so he attacks one of the many sources.
Can you point out a more reputable source for that nonsense?

uhhh...the charging documents and defense attorney statements that have been floating around for months?
This isn't news to anyone who has actually been looking. 

That's why the 'terrorism' charges in the Whitmer 'plot' got tossed by the judge.  When 25% of your 'conspirators' are FBI agents and paid informants it damages the credibility of the charges. 

...Especially if the 'explosives expert' who made the initial bomb suggestions turns out to be an undercover operative...  ::)

The people doing the research are drawing the parallels given that the FBI supervisor is the same in both cases and the people with the 'worst' conspiring charges...suggesting heavy weapons, explosives, etc...seem to be going 'unindicted' (just like in MI) has people asking serious questions about who was actually 'planning'...

They have arrested 450 people and still nothing about the guy who planted the bombs at the DNC or RNC buildings...No real description of him like height, weight, etc...even though that information would be easily determined by cross referencing the video with the actual physical location.  Wouldn't catching the guy planting bombs be a priority?


Revolver released what is probably the most complete data compilation/collation about a week ago.  I am assuming that is what Tucker picked up on and used for his segment.

Let's be honest.  If you were doing anything other than vomiting MSM-establishment talking points, you would have alreadt come across some of this info.  Maybe you ought to go back to harping about Covid since that falls into your area of expertise.

...oh wait, your track record with that isn't looking to good anymore either, is it?  ;)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on June 18, 2021, 05:26:32 PM
Did I miss the discussion of the FBI being behind the organisation of the mostly peaceful Capitol walking tours in January?

I thought that jhkim would have been all over that story as another reason to defund the police.
Pwr a.judge, no reasonable person should believe anything that Tucker Carlson says.

What does Tucker have to do with this?  ???

Standard ad hominem.  He can't attack the validity of the information, so he attacks one of the many sources.
Can you point out a more reputable source for that nonsense?

uhhh...the charging documents and defense attorney statements that have been floating around for months?
This isn't news to anyone who has actually been looking. 

That's why the 'terrorism' charges in the Whitmer 'plot' got tossed by the judge.  When 25% of your 'conspirators' are FBI agents and paid informants it damages the credibility of the charges. 

...Especially if the 'explosives expert' who made the initial bomb suggestions turns out to be an undercover operative...  ::)

The people doing the research are drawing the parallels given that the FBI supervisor is the same in both cases and the people with the 'worst' conspiring charges...suggesting heavy weapons, explosives, etc...seem to be going 'unindicted' (just like in MI) has people asking serious questions about who was actually 'planning'...

They have arrested 450 people and still nothing about the guy who planted the bombs at the DNC or RNC buildings...No real description of him like height, weight, etc...even though that information would be easily determined by cross referencing the video with the actual physical location.  Wouldn't catching the guy planting bombs be a priority?


Revolver released what is probably the most complete data compilation/collation about a week ago.  I am assuming that is what Tucker picked up on and used for his segment.

Let's be honest.  If you were doing anything other than vomiting MSM-establishment talking points, you would have alreadt come across some of this info.  Maybe you ought to go back to harping about Covid since that falls into your area of expertise.

...oh wait, your track record with that isn't looking to good anymore either, is it?  ;)
Your silly talk amuses me. Sadly some idiots here probably buy into your nonsense.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on June 18, 2021, 05:33:35 PM
Your silly talk amuses me. Sadly some idiots here probably buy into your nonsense.

Seeing the squirming is the best.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on June 18, 2021, 06:05:33 PM
Your silly talk amuses me. Sadly some idiots here probably buy into your nonsense.

I'm confused.  Did I say something that wasn't true?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Eirikrautha on June 18, 2021, 08:19:35 PM
Your silly talk amuses me. Sadly some idiots here probably buy into your nonsense.

I'm confused.  Did I say something that wasn't true?
He can't refute any of it, so he's just going to deflect and cats aspersions.  It's all he's got...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on June 18, 2021, 08:54:20 PM
Your silly talk amuses me. Sadly some idiots here probably buy into your nonsense.

I'm confused.  Did I say something that wasn't true?
He can't refute any of it, so he's just going to deflect and cats aspersions.  It's all he's got...
You have nothing better.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on June 18, 2021, 08:54:53 PM
Your silly talk amuses me. Sadly some idiots here probably buy into your nonsense.

I'm confused.  Did I say something that wasn't true?
You wouldn't understand the truth.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Trond on June 19, 2021, 09:36:53 AM
So, can anyone explain what the FBI had to do with it?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on June 20, 2021, 12:02:09 PM
So, can anyone explain what the FBI had to do with it?

Here is the revolver article that is a nice summation that I mentioned. 

https://www.revolver.news/2021/06/federal-foreknowledge-jan-6-unindicted-co-conspirators-raise-disturbing-questions/ (https://www.revolver.news/2021/06/federal-foreknowledge-jan-6-unindicted-co-conspirators-raise-disturbing-questions/)

I believe this is the one Tucker used for his segment but I didn't watch his show so I don't know what parts he may have covered.
Like I said before, the info has been floating around for quite a while and you may be able to dig up more of the original bits and pieces if you spend some time looking.

Here is an article by Glenn Greenwald  with his take on some of the stuff.

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/questions-about-the-fbis-role-in (https://greenwald.substack.com/p/questions-about-the-fbis-role-in)

Basically, given the FBI's past behavior, more and more people are starting to ask more questions about the situation.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on June 20, 2021, 01:08:07 PM
So, can anyone explain what the FBI had to do with it?

Here is the revolver article that is a nice summation that I mentioned. 

https://www.revolver.news/2021/06/federal-foreknowledge-jan-6-unindicted-co-conspirators-raise-disturbing-questions/ (https://www.revolver.news/2021/06/federal-foreknowledge-jan-6-unindicted-co-conspirators-raise-disturbing-questions/)

I believe this is the one Tucker used for his segment but I didn't watch his show so I don't know what parts he may have covered.
Like I said before, the info has been floating around for quite a while and you may be able to dig up more of the original bits and pieces if you spend some time looking.

Here is an article by Glenn Greenwald  with his take on some of the stuff.

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/questions-about-the-fbis-role-in (https://greenwald.substack.com/p/questions-about-the-fbis-role-in)

Basically, given the FBI's past behavior, more and more people are starting to ask more questions about the situation.
The Revolver article is openly based "if" phrases and suppositions. Until they actually ask their questions and gain objective facts to present,  they are still just spouting conspiracy theories coddled in weasel words.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Trond on June 20, 2021, 03:02:16 PM
OK I looked it up. Tucker Carlson’s point is that FBI agents often go too far in their infiltrations of terrorist groups; instead of simply observing, they’re egging on and going so far as actually leading to more violent crimes. CNN covered this when the FBI did it to Islamic terrorists (thus downplaying the role of the terrorist themselves) and now FOX is pointing to the same thing when nationalist terrorists are concerned.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on June 20, 2021, 06:43:56 PM
OK I looked it up. Tucker Carlson’s point is that FBI agents often go too far in their infiltrations of terrorist groups; instead of simply observing, they’re egging on and going so far as actually leading to more violent crimes. CNN covered this when the FBI did it to Islamic terrorists (thus downplaying the role of the terrorist themselves) and now FOX is pointing to the same thing when nationalist terrorists are concerned.

Yeah.  For people like me who have disliked the FBI for the better part of 30+ years it is kind of humorous to see both sides flip flopping.  :)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on June 20, 2021, 07:01:06 PM
So, can anyone explain what the FBI had to do with it?

Here is the revolver article that is a nice summation that I mentioned. 

https://www.revolver.news/2021/06/federal-foreknowledge-jan-6-unindicted-co-conspirators-raise-disturbing-questions/ (https://www.revolver.news/2021/06/federal-foreknowledge-jan-6-unindicted-co-conspirators-raise-disturbing-questions/)

I believe this is the one Tucker used for his segment but I didn't watch his show so I don't know what parts he may have covered.
Like I said before, the info has been floating around for quite a while and you may be able to dig up more of the original bits and pieces if you spend some time looking.

Here is an article by Glenn Greenwald  with his take on some of the stuff.

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/questions-about-the-fbis-role-in (https://greenwald.substack.com/p/questions-about-the-fbis-role-in)

Basically, given the FBI's past behavior, more and more people are starting to ask more questions about the situation.
The Revolver article is openly based "if" phrases and suppositions. Until they actually ask their questions and gain objective facts to present,  they are still just spouting conspiracy theories coddled in weasel words.

Like I said...it is a nice summary of the info and questions being asked. 
The official reports on MI actually state that the 'explosives expert' was working for the FBI and initiated the 'bomb diversion.'

People are asking questions because of the FBI's history, especially considering the recent behavior such as with the warrants under the Russia investigation.

Maybe if you were actually capable of examining the questions and approaching it from a critical thinking perspective you might actually learn something.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on June 20, 2021, 07:20:43 PM
So, can anyone explain what the FBI had to do with it?

Here is the revolver article that is a nice summation that I mentioned. 

https://www.revolver.news/2021/06/federal-foreknowledge-jan-6-unindicted-co-conspirators-raise-disturbing-questions/ (https://www.revolver.news/2021/06/federal-foreknowledge-jan-6-unindicted-co-conspirators-raise-disturbing-questions/)

I believe this is the one Tucker used for his segment but I didn't watch his show so I don't know what parts he may have covered.
Like I said before, the info has been floating around for quite a while and you may be able to dig up more of the original bits and pieces if you spend some time looking.

Here is an article by Glenn Greenwald  with his take on some of the stuff.

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/questions-about-the-fbis-role-in (https://greenwald.substack.com/p/questions-about-the-fbis-role-in)

Basically, given the FBI's past behavior, more and more people are starting to ask more questions about the situation.
The Revolver article is openly based "if" phrases and suppositions. Until they actually ask their questions and gain objective facts to present,  they are still just spouting conspiracy theories coddled in weasel words.

Like I said...it is a nice summary of the info and questions being asked. 
The official reports on MI actually state that the 'explosives expert' was working for the FBI and initiated the 'bomb diversion.'

People are asking questions because of the FBI's history, especially considering the recent behavior such as with the warrants under the Russia investigation.

Maybe if you were actually capable of examining the questions and approaching it from a critical thinking perspective you might actually learn something.
Bullshit. Let the questions be asked and get back to me with facts, not just conspiracy theories.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on June 20, 2021, 08:42:09 PM
Like I said...it is a nice summary of the info and questions being asked. 
The official reports on MI actually state that the 'explosives expert' was working for the FBI and initiated the 'bomb diversion.'

People are asking questions because of the FBI's history, especially considering the recent behavior such as with the warrants under the Russia investigation.

Maybe if you were actually capable of examining the questions and approaching it from a critical thinking perspective you might actually learn something.
Bullshit. Let the questions be asked and get back to me with facts, not just conspiracy theories.

OK...Here's a fact for you.
Turns out HCQ administered early, in the proper doses, in conjunction with some other basic drugs works as a prophylactic for COVID.

[Sarc/on]Who knew?  I mean it isn't like anyone on this board was asking about that early last year, was it?  All those 'studies' that were touted by people saying HCQ was dangerous...I don't remember anyone here asking why those 'studies' never seemed to cover the actual specific conditions under which field doctors were saying it worked?  I don't remember anyone mentioning that Fauci himself had made statements about its possible effectiveness back in the early 2000s.  I don't remember anyone referencing the old Dead Zone episode from the same time period where they used chloroquine against a coronavirus because the CDC had said that was a promising possibility.  I don't remember anyone here questioning the narrative that there was no way it came from a lab. [Sarc/off]

Should we dig back through the Covid threads and see what you had to say about the 'conspiracy theories' that myself and others were talking about then?  Maybe you ought to learn to start asking some questions yourself instead of just vomiting talking points. 

At least I don't have to look at myself in the mirror in the morning and ask, "Gee, maybe if I and the other medical/scientific 'experts' had taken those questions seriously instead of shouting them down because political appointees and the pharmaceutical companies wanted me to, we might not have had so many people dying."

...but hey...Orange Man Bad is gone and you got a cool Cobra Commander mask out of it, am I right?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on June 20, 2021, 10:51:06 PM
OK...Here's a fact for you.
Turns out HCQ administered early, in the proper doses, in conjunction with some other basic drugs works as a prophylactic for COVID.

Thats not fair to mess with HappyDazes favourite conspiracy theory.

You know the only thing that works is double masking.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on June 21, 2021, 06:55:30 AM
Like I said...it is a nice summary of the info and questions being asked. 
The official reports on MI actually state that the 'explosives expert' was working for the FBI and initiated the 'bomb diversion.'

People are asking questions because of the FBI's history, especially considering the recent behavior such as with the warrants under the Russia investigation.

Maybe if you were actually capable of examining the questions and approaching it from a critical thinking perspective you might actually learn something.
Bullshit. Let the questions be asked and get back to me with facts, not just conspiracy theories.

OK...Here's a fact for you.
Turns out HCQ administered early, in the proper doses, in conjunction with some other basic drugs works as a prophylactic for COVID.

[Sarc/on]Who knew?  I mean it isn't like anyone on this board was asking about that early last year, was it?  All those 'studies' that were touted by people saying HCQ was dangerous...I don't remember anyone here asking why those 'studies' never seemed to cover the actual specific conditions under which field doctors were saying it worked?  I don't remember anyone mentioning that Fauci himself had made statements about its possible effectiveness back in the early 2000s.  I don't remember anyone referencing the old Dead Zone episode from the same time period where they used chloroquine against a coronavirus because the CDC had said that was a promising possibility.  I don't remember anyone here questioning the narrative that there was no way it came from a lab. [Sarc/off]

Should we dig back through the Covid threads and see what you had to say about the 'conspiracy theories' that myself and others were talking about then?  Maybe you ought to learn to start asking some questions yourself instead of just vomiting talking points. 

At least I don't have to look at myself in the mirror in the morning and ask, "Gee, maybe if I and the other medical/scientific 'experts' had taken those questions seriously instead of shouting them down because political appointees and the pharmaceutical companies wanted me to, we might not have had so many people dying."

...but hey...Orange Man Bad is gone and you got a cool Cobra Commander mask out of it, am I right?
You're wrong. I never did find a Cobra Commander mask at a price I was willing to pay.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on June 21, 2021, 06:57:26 AM
OK...Here's a fact for you.
Turns out HCQ administered early, in the proper doses, in conjunction with some other basic drugs works as a prophylactic for COVID.

Thats not fair to mess with HappyDazes favourite conspiracy theory.

You know the only thing that works is double masking.
Mess with whatever theory you like. I didn't jump in on either side of HCQ.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: KingCheops on June 21, 2021, 10:52:46 AM
OK...Here's a fact for you.
Turns out HCQ administered early, in the proper doses, in conjunction with some other basic drugs works as a prophylactic for COVID.

Thats not fair to mess with HappyDazes favourite conspiracy theory.

You know the only thing that works is double masking.

You white nationalist supremacist fascist islamophobic transphobic terrorist!  Saint Fauci says that anything less than 42 masks will kill everyone's grandma!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on June 21, 2021, 11:39:57 AM
OK...Here's a fact for you.
Turns out HCQ administered early, in the proper doses, in conjunction with some other basic drugs works as a prophylactic for COVID.

Thats not fair to mess with HappyDazes favourite conspiracy theory.

You know the only thing that works is double masking.
Mess with whatever theory you like. I didn't jump in on either side of HCQ.

To be fair, technically, HD is semantically correct when he claims he never said anything about HCQ directly...

However, he does seem to have a history of claiming the sources are garbage and social media platforms removing them due to 'misinformation' to be acceptable...

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1142075
America's Frontline Doctors SCOTUS Press Conference Transcript (https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/americas-frontline-doctors-scotus-press-conference-transcript?fbclid=IwAR0d5W5mDeTeygwGcBrcyJazXyfBANLWq69bs_VTyVb4MlREyiKxfEWuWAc)

The video that transcript was taken from has been taken down for spreading false and misleading information.

Quote from: Brad;1142127
Multiple doctors explicitly saying HCQ works to mitigate COVID-19, video is scrubbed from the Internet. You claim it was due to "misinformation". At this point either you're ignorant as fuck, or actively trying to censor people. Tell me which one.

Third option. Your sources are shit. Your argument is shit. You are shit. Fuck off.

...now maybe he is unbiased.  That means we could go back and check the arguments between jhkim and some of us regarding the fact that the HCQ studies being conducted early last year were garbage because they were all specifically avoiding the circumstances where doctors claimed it worked.  I am sure we would find a post or two where he told jhkim that we were right and the medical tests weren't being conducted according to the doctor's guidelines.  Hell, I bet he might have even pointed out that there are a large number of medications that get prescribed 'off-label'...and I'm sure he probably called out Gretchen Whitmer for threatening any pharmacist who filled an HCQ prescription with license forfeiture...obviously anyone as unbiased as he is wouldn't silently accept a non-medical government entity over-riding decisions made by actual medical personnel, would he?

...or maybe Ghostmaker was right.

I love how HappyDaze is blowing off all the contradictory data and opinions as misinformation.

It's nice to know he puts his information filtering trust in the hands of Facebook.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 21, 2021, 01:17:57 PM
'Ghostmaker was right.'

Well, there's a terrifying prospect. :D

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on June 21, 2021, 02:01:10 PM
'Ghostmaker was right.'

Well, there's a terrifying prospect. :D

It might terrify some people...

I'm not too worried about it, though.  ;)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on June 21, 2021, 04:24:02 PM
'Ghostmaker was right.'

Well, there's a terrifying prospect. :D
Don't worry, it's fake news.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Elfdart on June 26, 2021, 01:27:25 AM
Joe Biden is still president, right?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on June 26, 2021, 10:34:58 AM
Joe Biden is still president, right?
To be fair, the Pillow Prophet said we have to wait until August for the second coming of Trump.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Trond on June 26, 2021, 11:03:52 AM
Joe Biden is still president, right?
To be fair, the Pillow Prophet said we have to wait until August for the second coming of Trump.

I think Elfdart is referring to the right’s idea that Kamala was planned to take over when Biden got too demented or dropped dead.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on June 26, 2021, 12:20:52 PM
Joe Biden is still president, right?
To be fair, the Pillow Prophet said we have to wait until August for the second coming of Trump.

I think Elfdart is referring to the right’s idea that Kamala was planned to take over when Biden got too demented or dropped dead.
Everybody* knows she plans to rule from behind the throne for two years before replacing him so that she can have a full 10-year reign.

* Everybody = No Reasonable Person
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on June 26, 2021, 07:26:15 PM
Joe Biden is still president, right?
To be fair, the Pillow Prophet said we have to wait until August for the second coming of Trump.

I think Elfdart is referring to the right’s idea that Kamala was planned to take over when Biden got too demented or dropped dead.
Everybody* knows she plans to rule from behind the throne for two years before replacing him so that she can have a full 10-year reign.

* Everybody = No Reasonable Person

   She does her ruling kneeling at the throne from past history.  My guess is she doesnt get to do or say shit, and whoever is handling the crypt keeper keeps her down the hall and out of the public.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Zelen on June 26, 2021, 09:06:28 PM
What's weird about the Biden presidency is that it everyone knows that the people at the top of the ticket are just puppets for powerful interests, but it's tough to identify a distinct coalition forming that power interest. Usually it's not difficulty identify the major players that drive decisionmaking and why, but this regime is particularly obfuscated and their agendas dangerously secretive.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on June 26, 2021, 10:23:04 PM
That weird, I am sure I heard Biden calling Kamala "President".

Maybe thats just his nickname for her?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: KingCheops on June 26, 2021, 10:35:59 PM
What's weird about the Biden presidency is that it everyone knows that the people at the top of the ticket are just puppets for powerful interests, but it's tough to identify a distinct coalition forming that power interest. Usually it's not difficulty identify the major players that drive decisionmaking and why, but this regime is particularly obfuscated and their agendas dangerously secretive.

That's because the controlling power interests are just Russian-style kleptocrats.  You can't identify them or their agendas because their agenda is "steal as much as humanly possible before the American empire collapses."
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on June 30, 2021, 03:47:35 PM
For those who are actually interested in doing their own research and not just watching Fox and CNN, here are some more questions and 'suppositions' regarding the "insurrection" from the same people that put up the summary that Tucker used.

https://www.revolver.news/2021/06/stewart-rhodes-oath-keepers-missing-link-fbi-unindicted-co-conspirator/ (https://www.revolver.news/2021/06/stewart-rhodes-oath-keepers-missing-link-fbi-unindicted-co-conspirator/)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 30, 2021, 03:58:58 PM
Two words:

Sunrise Movement.

500 environmentalist protestors decided to block all entrances to the White House. New York representative Jamaal Bowman spoke at the protest insurrection rally.

Strangely, the Feebs and capitol police seemed pretty okay with this. I think a few people got arrested. Maybe.

So yeah, fuck everyone who talks about how there was an 'insurrection' on January 6. Kill yourselves. Avoid the rush.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: The Spaniard on July 01, 2021, 10:39:55 AM
That weird, I am sure I heard Biden calling Kamala "President".

Maybe thats just his nickname for her?

That's funny! 

The minute they announced Biden was the nominee I called that the VP pick would be the real president.  However, I thought it would be Hillary.  Kumswala was a surprise, based on how poorly she did in the race.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 01, 2021, 11:29:27 AM
That weird, I am sure I heard Biden calling Kamala "President".

Maybe thats just his nickname for her?

That's funny! 

The minute they announced Biden was the nominee I called that the VP pick would be the real president.  However, I thought it would be Hillary.  Kumswala was a surprise, based on how poorly she did in the race.
Part of it is because Hillary was a two-time loser (to Obama in '08, and then to Trump in '16). Politics isn't kind to losers. She also comes with a truly ridiculous amount of baggage -- whether it's Whitewater, email servers, managing 'bimbo eruptions', or where all the money for Haiti went after it passed through the Clinton Foundation's hands.

Biden (or more likely, his handlers) had already decreed the VP slot would go to a 'woman of color', which limited them spectacularly. The big names for 'women of color' in politics weren't great -- aside from Harris, you had Stacey 'I totally won and Kemp cheated!!1' Abrams, and then a couple barely-known congresscritters. Harris had the most name recognition... in theory anyways.

To be honest, it's hard to imagine a worse pick than Harris though. She'd caught serious flak over shenanigans involving prisoners being held past their sentence durations in the CA correctional system. She was known to have consorted with Willie Brown to get her position (there's some inspiration for you, girls: sleep your way to the top!), and then Tulsi Gabbard verbally disemboweled her during the debates.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: KingCheops on July 01, 2021, 12:43:43 PM
That weird, I am sure I heard Biden calling Kamala "President".

Maybe thats just his nickname for her?

That's funny! 

The minute they announced Biden was the nominee I called that the VP pick would be the real president.  However, I thought it would be Hillary.  Kumswala was a surprise, based on how poorly she did in the race.
Part of it is because Hillary was a two-time loser (to Obama in '08, and then to Trump in '16). Politics isn't kind to losers. She also comes with a truly ridiculous amount of baggage -- whether it's Whitewater, email servers, managing 'bimbo eruptions', or where all the money for Haiti went after it passed through the Clinton Foundation's hands.

Biden (or more likely, his handlers) had already decreed the VP slot would go to a 'woman of color', which limited them spectacularly. The big names for 'women of color' in politics weren't great -- aside from Harris, you had Stacey 'I totally won and Kemp cheated!!1' Abrams, and then a couple barely-known congresscritters. Harris had the most name recognition... in theory anyways.

To be honest, it's hard to imagine a worse pick than Harris though. She'd caught serious flak over shenanigans involving prisoners being held past their sentence durations in the CA correctional system. She was known to have consorted with Willie Brown to get her position (there's some inspiration for you, girls: sleep your way to the top!), and then Tulsi Gabbard verbally disemboweled her during the debates.

She's also despised by many rank-and-file Catholics in California (of which Biden pretends to be one) because she ran cover for the Church in not publishing the names of priests caught diddling children.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on July 01, 2021, 01:12:20 PM
That weird, I am sure I heard Biden calling Kamala "President".

Maybe thats just his nickname for her?

That's funny! 

The minute they announced Biden was the nominee I called that the VP pick would be the real president.  However, I thought it would be Hillary.  Kumswala was a surprise, based on how poorly she did in the race.
Part of it is because Hillary was a two-time loser (to Obama in '08, and then to Trump in '16). Politics isn't kind to losers. She also comes with a truly ridiculous amount of baggage -- whether it's Whitewater, email servers, managing 'bimbo eruptions', or where all the money for Haiti went after it passed through the Clinton Foundation's hands.

Biden (or more likely, his handlers) had already decreed the VP slot would go to a 'woman of color', which limited them spectacularly. The big names for 'women of color' in politics weren't great -- aside from Harris, you had Stacey 'I totally won and Kemp cheated!!1' Abrams, and then a couple barely-known congresscritters. Harris had the most name recognition... in theory anyways.

To be honest, it's hard to imagine a worse pick than Harris though. She'd caught serious flak over shenanigans involving prisoners being held past their sentence durations in the CA correctional system. She was known to have consorted with Willie Brown to get her position (there's some inspiration for you, girls: sleep your way to the top!), and then Tulsi Gabbard verbally disemboweled her during the debates.

Its because she is an absolute whore in the political sense.  (Not really surprising I guess)
If you look at her history, you could pick her course of action by checking the latest poll of the people in power above her.

Its one reason she is so disliked, people naturally have an aversion to that kind of chameleon.  It trips people's 'sociopath' sensor, even if they are not aware of it.

However, that makes her an almost perfect figurehead. 

Biden has dementia and was just a face to coalesce the electorate behind.  I am not sure whether the 'Woman of Color' comment was a mistake or not.  Either way, GM is right, Hillary was too disliked and had too much baggage to be the candidate.  The most easily controlled, semi-acceptable, person fitting the criteria was Kamala.  Stacy Abrams can't control her mouth and is too stupid to keep up any sort of cover.  Joe may have been a gaffe machine, but before the dementia he was able to short circuit it because he was somewhat personable and not stupid.  Abrams would have been a gaffe machine without those benefits.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 01, 2021, 01:26:01 PM
I'm not even keen on calling her a whore. Even prostitutes have more dignity.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: The Spaniard on July 01, 2021, 01:38:42 PM
That weird, I am sure I heard Biden calling Kamala "President".

Maybe thats just his nickname for her?

That's funny! 

The minute they announced Biden was the nominee I called that the VP pick would be the real president.  However, I thought it would be Hillary.  Kumswala was a surprise, based on how poorly she did in the race.
Part of it is because Hillary was a two-time loser (to Obama in '08, and then to Trump in '16). Politics isn't kind to losers. She also comes with a truly ridiculous amount of baggage -- whether it's Whitewater, email servers, managing 'bimbo eruptions', or where all the money for Haiti went after it passed through the Clinton Foundation's hands.

Biden (or more likely, his handlers) had already decreed the VP slot would go to a 'woman of color', which limited them spectacularly. The big names for 'women of color' in politics weren't great -- aside from Harris, you had Stacey 'I totally won and Kemp cheated!!1' Abrams, and then a couple barely-known congresscritters. Harris had the most name recognition... in theory anyways.

To be honest, it's hard to imagine a worse pick than Harris though. She'd caught serious flak over shenanigans involving prisoners being held past their sentence durations in the CA correctional system. She was known to have consorted with Willie Brown to get her position (there's some inspiration for you, girls: sleep your way to the top!), and then Tulsi Gabbard verbally disemboweled her during the debates.

Its because she is an absolute whore in the political sense.  (Not really surprising I guess)
If you look at her history, you could pick her course of action by checking the latest poll of the people in power above her.

Its one reason she is so disliked, people naturally have an aversion to that kind of chameleon.  It trips people's 'sociopath' sensor, even if they are not aware of it.

However, that makes her an almost perfect figurehead. 

Biden has dementia and was just a face to coalesce the electorate behind.  I am not sure whether the 'Woman of Color' comment was a mistake or not.  Either way, GM is right, Hillary was too disliked and had too much baggage to be the candidate.  The most easily controlled, semi-acceptable, person fitting the criteria was Kamala.  Stacy Abrams can't control her mouth and is too stupid to keep up any sort of cover.  Joe may have been a gaffe machine, but before the dementia he was able to short circuit it because he was somewhat personable and not stupid.  Abrams would have been a gaffe machine without those benefits.

I agree Hillary had a ton of baggage, but she's always been a media darling.  100 % agree on Abrams, too much downside there.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on July 01, 2021, 01:57:14 PM
Hillary has been a media darling, but it wasn't going to help her against Trump.

She showed she doesn't do well when somebody actually goes after her and after 2016 everyone knew Trump would do that.
More importantly, Trump was probably going to crank it up to 11 against her because of the 'Russia,Russia' garbage that was tied to her campaign.  The media can only cover up so much and Hillary had too many negatives for them to cover for her...then add in the factor that the Clintons were losing influence and her possible health issues.

If they had known they were gonna be able to lock down the whole election year that might have worked...but they found that out too late.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on July 01, 2021, 03:40:44 PM
What do people here think about the path forward for Trump and Trump supporters?

I've seen some about his recent rallies, but I'm curious about what supporters think. Do you still have hope for the Arizona ballot investigation? What about his chances in 2024, after new election laws in various Republican states?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ThatChrisGuy on July 01, 2021, 03:50:18 PM
What do people here think about the path forward for Trump and Trump supporters?

I've seen some about his recent rallies, but I'm curious about what supporters think. Do you still have hope for the Arizona ballot investigation? What about his chances in 2024, after new election laws in various Republican states?

I think he'll be too old to be President in 2024 and shouldn't run. 

Anything the Arizona investigation finds, should there be anything substantial, will be minimized and buried by the press.  I personally doubt much would come of it in any case, as fraudulent balloting is damned hard to prove in all but the most blatant cases.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 01, 2021, 04:01:24 PM
I also vote 'unlikely' on a 2024 run, for similar reasons.

Besides, the prospect of a Ron DeSantis run already has the left crapping itself.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 01, 2021, 04:03:05 PM
https://gizmodo.com/new-york-faces-blackouts-as-extreme-heat-strains-the-gr-1847206009

First California, now New York? And this is after NY shut down one of their nuclear plants, to much celebration on the left.

Great job, retards.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 01, 2021, 04:16:03 PM
What do people here think about the path forward for Trump and Trump supporters?

I've seen some about his recent rallies, but I'm curious about what supporters think. Do you still have hope for the Arizona ballot investigation? What about his chances in 2024, after new election laws in various Republican states?

I think a few thoughts.

Biden and the Democrat party have been such a farce, I think they've inadvertently opened up a window for a Trump 2024 campaign. The midterms will be our first gauge of that.

I think both the Dems and Repubs will close ranks against Trump and he'll have to run as an independant.

Too soon to tell if Trump will actually try another campaign.

At this point, I don't think he shoud run again. The establishment were blindsided by him, but they'll be prepared for an attempt at a 2nd term.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on July 01, 2021, 04:55:09 PM
Biden (or more likely, his handlers) had already decreed the VP slot would go to a 'woman of color', which limited them spectacularly. The big names for 'women of color' in politics weren't great -- aside from Harris, you had Stacey 'I totally won and Kemp cheated!!1' Abrams, and then a couple barely-known congresscritters. Harris had the most name recognition... in theory anyways.

He should have gone with Elizabeth Warren.   ;)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on July 01, 2021, 05:30:35 PM
At this point, I don't think he shoud run again. The establishment were blindsided by him, but they'll be prepared for an attempt at a 2nd term.

What do you think should be done?

Historically, many authoritarian regimes have been overthrown. I would think that organizing on a local level would be a first step. The U.S. has a high degree of local control over elections. I'm not a Trump supporter, but if I did believe in election interference, I'd focus on the local level. Ideally, it would be possible to get someone to turn over inside evidence.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on July 01, 2021, 06:33:08 PM
https://gizmodo.com/new-york-faces-blackouts-as-extreme-heat-strains-the-gr-1847206009

First California, now New York? And this is after NY shut down one of their nuclear plants, to much celebration on the left.

Great job, retards.
I once did some disaster planning around Indian Point. I'm strongly in favor of nuclear power, but it made a lot of sense to shut that one down. It's ancient, neglected, and they discovered two fault lines converge under it. Given it's in one of the mostly densely populated areas in the country, it should have been shut down more than a decade ago.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Zelen on July 01, 2021, 07:44:08 PM
IMO best case scenario would see Trump retiring from politics as an active figure but helping to fund & promote candidates. I think Trump's flaws as a person are very significant:

* Too old
* Too narcissistic
* Failure to hire and reward loyalty

These personal problems directly relate to the most pressing issues we face. The complete destruction of Freedom of Speech in America happened under his watch, and he was complacent about it. His online support base was completely annihilated in 2017-2020 with zero significant action. This also led directly into the Covid hysteria / medical tyranny we face today, and the complete blackout on discussion of election fraud. (Regardless of what you think about these issues, and there have clearly been some outlandish claims, it's unprecedented and clearly tyrannical to completely shut down discussion on them in the way that tech & govt have colluded to do.)

Over his presidency, Trump has a bad track record for staff & endorsements. There were tens of millions of patriots who would have volunteered for his administration, but in so many cases we saw him hiring the Bush-era Republican cronies who hated him. He's similarly endorsed a bunch of shit candidates because he wanted to look like he could pick winners.
We see the problems arising again when it comes to the Jan 6th protestors. Has Trump said a single word about standing up for people who stood up for him? These are people who in some cases have spent months imprisoned, beaten, and tortured by the current US regime. Not a peep about them.

Trump behind the scenes could do a lot of good if he actually had good advisors and people who were loyal to the goals of his presidency. But I don't think there's much hope that will happen. Trump will definitely run in 2024, and if nothing else it'll be fascinating to see if he can win under the world's most sophisticated censorship apparatus. Things are getting so bad so quickly I don't rule it out.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on July 01, 2021, 08:17:03 PM
I think it's pretty clear that no reasonable person would vote for Trump in the next election. That being said, he'd probably get plenty of votes.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on July 01, 2021, 09:12:17 PM
I think it's pretty clear that no reasonable person would vote for Trump in the next election. That being said, he'd probably get plenty of votes.

And certainly no true Scotsman either.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 01, 2021, 10:18:28 PM
At this point, I don't think he shoud run again. The establishment were blindsided by him, but they'll be prepared for an attempt at a 2nd term.

What do you think should be done?

Historically, many authoritarian regimes have been overthrown. I would think that organizing on a local level would be a first step. The U.S. has a high degree of local control over elections. I'm not a Trump supporter, but if I did believe in election interference, I'd focus on the local level. Ideally, it would be possible to get someone to turn over inside evidence.

The Dems are pushing to Federalize state elections. They're already trying to close that avenue.

https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-voting-democracy-voting-rights-coronavirus-pandemic-7fc2dde742c261ea897b127254377baa

And while I think election interference was a part of the 2020 Presidential election, I don't think it was traceable. As in, it was a decentralized effort by individuals who believed they were protecting us from Literally Orange Hitler. I don't have any insight into how or what any private inquiry would turn up anything useful beyond a few people getting dinged for questionable election practices. Which is pretty much what happened.

https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/

We're in the uncomfortable position of a two party system that only agrees that they should share power between themselves, and then fight ruthlessley for the steering wheel. Any reform would have to be from Republicans or Democrats willing to give up their control over the election system. I don't see that happening willingly. I don't know what should be done about it. Only that it's not a stable situation for the long term.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 01, 2021, 10:32:16 PM
IMO best case scenario would see Trump retiring from politics as an active figure but helping to fund & promote candidates. I think Trump's flaws as a person are very significant:

* Too old
* Too narcissistic
* Failure to hire and reward loyalty

These personal problems directly relate to the most pressing issues we face. The complete destruction of Freedom of Speech in America happened under his watch, and he was complacent about it. His online support base was completely annihilated in 2017-2020 with zero significant action. This also led directly into the Covid hysteria / medical tyranny we face today, and the complete blackout on discussion of election fraud. (Regardless of what you think about these issues, and there have clearly been some outlandish claims, it's unprecedented and clearly tyrannical to completely shut down discussion on them in the way that tech & govt have colluded to do.)

Over his presidency, Trump has a bad track record for staff & endorsements. There were tens of millions of patriots who would have volunteered for his administration, but in so many cases we saw him hiring the Bush-era Republican cronies who hated him. He's similarly endorsed a bunch of shit candidates because he wanted to look like he could pick winners.
We see the problems arising again when it comes to the Jan 6th protestors. Has Trump said a single word about standing up for people who stood up for him? These are people who in some cases have spent months imprisoned, beaten, and tortured by the current US regime. Not a peep about them.

Trump behind the scenes could do a lot of good if he actually had good advisors and people who were loyal to the goals of his presidency. But I don't think there's much hope that will happen. Trump will definitely run in 2024, and if nothing else it'll be fascinating to see if he can win under the world's most sophisticated censorship apparatus. Things are getting so bad so quickly I don't rule it out.

I agree. We'll see. I think he did pretty well against the entrenched establishment and a media willing to say any crazy thing about him.

https://www.salon.com/2019/12/10/alleged-pee-tape-incident-wasnt-the-only-trump-sex-party-in-russia-probed-by-steele_partner/

Trump could do a lot of good as a fundraiser and speaker for populist America. Will he? Or will he try to charge up The Hill again?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 02, 2021, 08:02:42 AM
https://gizmodo.com/new-york-faces-blackouts-as-extreme-heat-strains-the-gr-1847206009

First California, now New York? And this is after NY shut down one of their nuclear plants, to much celebration on the left.

Great job, retards.
I once did some disaster planning around Indian Point. I'm strongly in favor of nuclear power, but it made a lot of sense to shut that one down. It's ancient, neglected, and they discovered two fault lines converge under it. Given it's in one of the mostly densely populated areas in the country, it should have been shut down more than a decade ago.
That's fine -- but that cut a HUGE chunk out of New York's power budget, and they made NO attempt to fill it.

Note that Times Square is all lit up in the videos and images. But the proles need to shut down their AC.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on July 02, 2021, 10:33:23 AM
https://gizmodo.com/new-york-faces-blackouts-as-extreme-heat-strains-the-gr-1847206009

First California, now New York? And this is after NY shut down one of their nuclear plants, to much celebration on the left.

Great job, retards.
I once did some disaster planning around Indian Point. I'm strongly in favor of nuclear power, but it made a lot of sense to shut that one down. It's ancient, neglected, and they discovered two fault lines converge under it. Given it's in one of the mostly densely populated areas in the country, it should have been shut down more than a decade ago.
That's fine -- but that cut a HUGE chunk out of New York's power budget, and they made NO attempt to fill it.

Note that Times Square is all lit up in the videos and images. But the proles need to shut down their AC.
That's a result of the stupid politics around nuclear. They cheer its death, but don't have any alternatives. In a rational world, we would have replaced all the aging nuclear plants decades ago with newer technologies, instead of keeping them running with string and bubblegum, and they would have replaced Indian Point with a new reactor in a less populated, more seismically stable area.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ScytheSong on July 02, 2021, 12:07:46 PM
I think it's pretty clear that no reasonable person would vote for Trump in the next election. That being said, he'd probably get plenty of votes.

And certainly no true Scotsman either.

Well, yes. A true Scotsman is going to be a citizen of the UK and not eligible to vote in a US election....
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 02, 2021, 04:06:59 PM
https://amgreatness.com/2021/06/23/deprogramming-of-january-6-defendants-is-underway/

It's not enough to charge people with misdemeanors. They must be forcibly reeducated.

This is some Russian/Chinese level bullshit here.

Defend this. Try. I wanna see this.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ScytheSong on July 02, 2021, 05:42:07 PM
https://amgreatness.com/2021/06/23/deprogramming-of-january-6-defendants-is-underway/

It's not enough to charge people with misdemeanors. They must be forcibly reeducated.

This is some Russian/Chinese level bullshit here.

Defend this. Try. I wanna see this.

Obviously, you don't understand what pleading guilty for a lesser sentence involves in the United States. This is actually par for the course. Got a drug charge you want to plead down to avoid jail? Tell the judge how sorry you are that you ever tried drugs and how you've learned your lesson and will never even look at controlled substances ever again. Bingo, no jail time, minimal fine, and your record gets expunged after you do your parole and community service hours. Just be sure not to get caught the next time, or hope you get a different judge...

(Of course, your defense lawyer is going to coach you on the right way to approach this, and will be happy for you (or, more likely given lawyers, herself) if it works.)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on July 02, 2021, 06:14:36 PM
https://amgreatness.com/2021/06/23/deprogramming-of-january-6-defendants-is-underway/

It's not enough to charge people with misdemeanors. They must be forcibly reeducated.

This is some Russian/Chinese level bullshit here.

Defend this. Try. I wanna see this.

Greetings!

Eye-opening, my friend. Another example of how corrupted and subverted our own government has become by the fucking Marxists.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on July 03, 2021, 08:58:36 AM
https://amgreatness.com/2021/06/23/deprogramming-of-january-6-defendants-is-underway/

It's not enough to charge people with misdemeanors. They must be forcibly reeducated.

This is some Russian/Chinese level bullshit here.

Defend this. Try. I wanna see this.
Defend what? It's politically biased "entertainment programming" (read propaganda) disguised as news. You really should know the difference by now.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: DocJones on July 03, 2021, 06:39:57 PM
https://amgreatness.com/2021/06/23/deprogramming-of-january-6-defendants-is-underway/

It's not enough to charge people with misdemeanors. They must be forcibly reeducated.

This is some Russian/Chinese level bullshit here.

Defend this. Try. I wanna see this.
This was solely the product of the diseased mind of the defense attorney, not the judge.
The woman should have fired her attorney. 
However there is a huge problem in finding good representation for reasonable fees in the District of Columbia.



Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on July 03, 2021, 07:36:50 PM

This was solely the product of the diseased mind of the defense attorney, not the judge.
The woman should have fired her attorney. 
However there is a huge problem in finding good representation for reasonable fees in the District of Columbia.
You probably skimmed over that part, but the article specifically said none of these people were able to afford their own attorneys. This was a public defender. She didn't really have a choice.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on July 03, 2021, 09:36:26 PM
Well, it isn't like they haven't been forcing re-education on the those who hold different political stances for a while now. 

Wasn't it D'Souza who had to see a psychiatrist at the Judge's order as part of the sentence for a few thousand dollar campaign finance violation a few years back?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on July 04, 2021, 01:04:08 PM
https://amgreatness.com/2021/06/23/deprogramming-of-january-6-defendants-is-underway/

It's not enough to charge people with misdemeanors. They must be forcibly reeducated.

This is some Russian/Chinese level bullshit here.

Defend this. Try. I wanna see this.

This was solely the product of the diseased mind of the defense attorney, not the judge.
The woman should have fired her attorney. 
However there is a huge problem in finding good representation for reasonable fees in the District of Columbia.

Huh. I had only glanced at the article and had assumed that the video-watching was ordered by the court, but upon reading, DocJones is right. She could have fired her attorney and gotten another one. And to be fair to the attorney, her strategy got her client off with just probation when many similar clients got heavier sentences.

It's a broad feature / bug of our justice system that clients who convincingly say they're sorry and that they've changed their ways will get lighter sentences. Bow and scrape to the government and you'll get rewarded.

I find it intolerable just how much leeway judges and especially prosecutors have in deciding how someone is handled in the justice system. Plea bargaining is especially common and horrible, in my opinion.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: DocJones on July 05, 2021, 09:37:58 PM
It's a broad feature / bug of our justice system that clients who convincingly say they're sorry and that they've changed their ways will get lighter sentences. Bow and scrape to the government and you'll get rewarded.
She had another option.  She could have rejected the attorney's advice and instead of apologizing for something completely unrelated to the riot and likely an abject lie, instead to apologize for her role in what actually occurred.

One guy apparently afforded himself an attorney to write a rather interesting if futile brief (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlHFUp-RZIk)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on July 05, 2021, 11:06:04 PM
It's a broad feature / bug of our justice system that clients who convincingly say they're sorry and that they've changed their ways will get lighter sentences. Bow and scrape to the government and you'll get rewarded.
She had another option.  She could have rejected the attorney's advice and instead of apologizing for something completely unrelated to the riot and likely an abject lie, instead to apologize for her role in what actually occurred.

One guy apparently afforded himself an attorney to write a rather interesting if futile brief (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlHFUp-RZIk)
Like all the Black Lives Matter terrorists did?

The Capitol is a public space. Protesting is a Constitutionally protected right. We should bend over backwards to give people who show up at the seat of government with grievances every benefit of the doubt. And she literally just walked around a bit. She has absolutely nothing to apologize for.

The Capitol is not Schumer's and Pelosi's private sacred place, that must remain untouched by the dirty deplorables they despise while pretending to represent. Assuming you're a US citizen, it's your place. It's my place. It's the place of all of Trump's supporters.

The federal government has almost unlimited resources and power. Federal law is ridiculously punitive, and biased against defendants. Both are being wielded like a weapon, by an elite class who believe they are above everyone else, and they're being used to annihilate the people they're supposed to protect. This is an abomination.

If the world were sane, all of Congress would be thrown out in the next election cycle, and replaced by people who believe in serving the people, instead of the current cadre who see themselves as Lords and Ladies and the people as ants.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: KingCheops on July 05, 2021, 11:43:46 PM
If the world were sane, all of Congress would be thrown out in the next election cycle, and replaced by people who believe in serving the people, instead of the current cadre who see themselves as Lords and Ladies and the people as ants.

I've said it before and I'll say it again:  Guillotine invented the correct solution to an overreaching elite.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on July 05, 2021, 11:50:41 PM
It's a broad feature / bug of our justice system that clients who convincingly say they're sorry and that they've changed their ways will get lighter sentences. Bow and scrape to the government and you'll get rewarded.
She had another option.  She could have rejected the attorney's advice and instead of apologizing for something completely unrelated to the riot and likely an abject lie, instead to apologize for her role in what actually occurred.

One guy apparently afforded himself an attorney to write a rather interesting if futile brief (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlHFUp-RZIk)
Like all the Black Lives Matter terrorists did?

The Capitol is a public space. Protesting is a Constitutionally protected right. We should bend over backwards to give people who show up at the seat of government with grievances every benefit of the doubt. And she literally just walked around a bit. She has absolutely nothing to apologize for.

The Capitol is not Schumer's and Pelosi's private sacred place, that must remain untouched by the dirty deplorables they despise while pretending to represent. Assuming you're a US citizen, it's your place. It's my place. It's the place of all of Trump's supporters.

The federal government has almost unlimited resources and power. Federal law is ridiculously punitive, and biased against defendants. Both are being wielded like a weapon, by an elite class who believe they are above everyone else, and they're being used to annihilate the people they're supposed to protect. This is an abomination.

If the world were sane, all of Congress would be thrown out in the next election cycle, and replaced by people who believe in serving the people, instead of the current cadre who see themselves as Lords and Ladies and the people as ants.

Greetings!

OOH RAH! Geesus, Pat. That is some awesome, napalm-grade TRUTH you wrote there. Absolutely correct!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Chris24601 on July 06, 2021, 08:08:09 AM
If the world were sane, all of Congress would be thrown out in the next election cycle, and replaced by people who believe in serving the people, instead of the current cadre who see themselves as Lords and Ladies and the people as ants.

I've said it before and I'll say it again:  Guillotine invented the correct solution to an overreaching elite.
Perhaps, but the noose feels more American in character.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 06, 2021, 08:13:52 AM
If the world were sane, all of Congress would be thrown out in the next election cycle, and replaced by people who believe in serving the people, instead of the current cadre who see themselves as Lords and Ladies and the people as ants.

I've said it before and I'll say it again:  Guillotine invented the correct solution to an overreaching elite.
Perhaps, but the noose feels more American in character.
We can have both, you know. Maybe we could hang and then guillotine them? And mount the heads as an object lesson? :D
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Chris24601 on July 06, 2021, 08:37:03 AM
If the world were sane, all of Congress would be thrown out in the next election cycle, and replaced by people who believe in serving the people, instead of the current cadre who see themselves as Lords and Ladies and the people as ants.

I've said it before and I'll say it again:  Guillotine invented the correct solution to an overreaching elite.
Perhaps, but the noose feels more American in character.
We can have both, you know. Maybe we could hang and then guillotine them? And mount the heads as an object lesson? :D
Honestly, my choice wouldn’t be execution. It’d be life without parole in the same conditions the 1/6 protestors are being held in. That appeals to my sense of justice.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: shuddemell on July 06, 2021, 09:10:22 AM
It's a broad feature / bug of our justice system that clients who convincingly say they're sorry and that they've changed their ways will get lighter sentences. Bow and scrape to the government and you'll get rewarded.
She had another option.  She could have rejected the attorney's advice and instead of apologizing for something completely unrelated to the riot and likely an abject lie, instead to apologize for her role in what actually occurred.

One guy apparently afforded himself an attorney to write a rather interesting if futile brief (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlHFUp-RZIk)
Like all the Black Lives Matter terrorists did?

The Capitol is a public space. Protesting is a Constitutionally protected right. We should bend over backwards to give people who show up at the seat of government with grievances every benefit of the doubt. And she literally just walked around a bit. She has absolutely nothing to apologize for.

The Capitol is not Schumer's and Pelosi's private sacred place, that must remain untouched by the dirty deplorables they despise while pretending to represent. Assuming you're a US citizen, it's your place. It's my place. It's the place of all of Trump's supporters.

The federal government has almost unlimited resources and power. Federal law is ridiculously punitive, and biased against defendants. Both are being wielded like a weapon, by an elite class who believe they are above everyone else, and they're being used to annihilate the people they're supposed to protect. This is an abomination.

If the world were sane, all of Congress would be thrown out in the next election cycle, and replaced by people who believe in serving the people, instead of the current cadre who see themselves as Lords and Ladies and the people as ants.

This bears repeating again and again. Amen.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: KingCheops on July 06, 2021, 12:26:00 PM
It's a broad feature / bug of our justice system that clients who convincingly say they're sorry and that they've changed their ways will get lighter sentences. Bow and scrape to the government and you'll get rewarded.
She had another option.  She could have rejected the attorney's advice and instead of apologizing for something completely unrelated to the riot and likely an abject lie, instead to apologize for her role in what actually occurred.

One guy apparently afforded himself an attorney to write a rather interesting if futile brief (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlHFUp-RZIk)
Like all the Black Lives Matter terrorists did?

The Capitol is a public space. Protesting is a Constitutionally protected right. We should bend over backwards to give people who show up at the seat of government with grievances every benefit of the doubt. And she literally just walked around a bit. She has absolutely nothing to apologize for.

The Capitol is not Schumer's and Pelosi's private sacred place, that must remain untouched by the dirty deplorables they despise while pretending to represent. Assuming you're a US citizen, it's your place. It's my place. It's the place of all of Trump's supporters.

The federal government has almost unlimited resources and power. Federal law is ridiculously punitive, and biased against defendants. Both are being wielded like a weapon, by an elite class who believe they are above everyone else, and they're being used to annihilate the people they're supposed to protect. This is an abomination.

If the world were sane, all of Congress would be thrown out in the next election cycle, and replaced by people who believe in serving the people, instead of the current cadre who see themselves as Lords and Ladies and the people as ants.

This bears repeating again and again. Amen.

That's not the rules dude!  If you're upset with the status quo you're supposed to burn down minority owned businesses in minority majority areas.  Not the sacred halls of government!  What do you think this is some sort of liberal republic that's meant to fight tyranny!?!

I've said this so many times but never give up your guns or agree to a registry Americans.  Canadians have essentially been completely disarmed thanks to the registry up here.  When they decide some day to suspend all our Charter of Rights and Freedoms (not inalienable rights but instead graciously given to us by our benevolent overlords in government) the RCMP will kick down the door of every gun owner at 3 am and disarm everyone.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on July 06, 2021, 03:15:07 PM
The federal government has almost unlimited resources and power. Federal law is ridiculously punitive, and biased against defendants. Both are being wielded like a weapon, by an elite class who believe they are above everyone else, and they're being used to annihilate the people they're supposed to protect. This is an abomination.

I feel like this is yet another one of these issues which is being turned on its head recently -- like foreign military action and corporate power. I've been advocating for defendant rights for decades - constantly saying about how the justice system is punitive and biased against defendants. That is why the U.S. has more prisoners per capita than any other country in the world. Mass incarceration has been a broad progressive cause for ages, but whenever progressives say the law is punitive and biased against defendants - conservatives reply that we're bleeding hearts and against law-and-order.

You mention only federal law here, but I would say state law is just as punitive and biased. Less than 10% of incarcerated Americans are in the federal system.


If the world were sane, all of Congress would be thrown out in the next election cycle, and replaced by people who believe in serving the people, instead of the current cadre who see themselves as Lords and Ladies and the people as ants.

You're attributing this solely to personal views, but I think it is highly likely that even if we got rid of all current congress people that the next batch to be voted in would do more of the same. I think we need campaign finance reform to reduce the influence of money on politics - especially by greater public finance of campaigns and transparency.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: The Spaniard on July 06, 2021, 03:40:28 PM
The federal government has almost unlimited resources and power. Federal law is ridiculously punitive, and biased against defendants. Both are being wielded like a weapon, by an elite class who believe they are above everyone else, and they're being used to annihilate the people they're supposed to protect. This is an abomination.

I feel like this is yet another one of these issues which is being turned on its head recently -- like foreign military action and corporate power. I've been advocating for defendant rights for decades - constantly saying about how the justice system is punitive and biased against defendants. That is why the U.S. has more prisoners per capita than any other country in the world. Mass incarceration has been a broad progressive cause for ages, but whenever progressives say the law is punitive and biased against defendants - conservatives reply that we're bleeding hearts and against law-and-order.

You mention only federal law here, but I would say state law is just as punitive and biased. Less than 10% of incarcerated Americans are in the federal system.


If the world were sane, all of Congress would be thrown out in the next election cycle, and replaced by people who believe in serving the people, instead of the current cadre who see themselves as Lords and Ladies and the people as ants.

You're attributing this solely to personal views, but I think it is highly likely that even if we got rid of all current congress people that the next batch to be voted in would do more of the same. I think we need campaign finance reform to reduce the influence of money on politics - especially by greater public finance of campaigns and transparency.

Term limits should be enacted immediately as well, but we all know they won't vote themselves out of power.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on July 06, 2021, 03:59:18 PM
The federal government has almost unlimited resources and power. Federal law is ridiculously punitive, and biased against defendants. Both are being wielded like a weapon, by an elite class who believe they are above everyone else, and they're being used to annihilate the people they're supposed to protect. This is an abomination.

I feel like this is yet another one of these issues which is being turned on its head recently -- like foreign military action and corporate power. I've been advocating for defendant rights for decades - constantly saying about how the justice system is punitive and biased against defendants. That is why the U.S. has more prisoners per capita than any other country in the world. Mass incarceration has been a broad progressive cause for ages, but whenever progressives say the law is punitive and biased against defendants - conservatives reply that we're bleeding hearts and against law-and-order.

You mention only federal law here, but I would say state law is just as punitive and biased. Less than 10% of incarcerated Americans are in the federal system.
They're being charged with federal crimes, so bringing up state laws seems like another attempt at deflection.

But even in a broader discussion, you're wrong. Federal law is typically more punitive than state laws, federal courts are more heavily biased toward the prosecution than state courts, and there's been vast increase in both the number and the severity of federal laws over the last 30 to 40 years. Drug crimes were one of the early abuses, but another mostly invisible category are violations of environmental rules, which not only have been vastly increased, but the standards of proof have been lowered, and the penalties have been great increased. This isn't going after polluters, it's throwing people in jail because 2 endangered birds landed on their property and they didn't know it. Plus, there's been some progress in reforming state laws lately, with decriminalization and the move to eliminate bail in many states. There's no comparable movement regarding federal law; in fact, quite the reverse.

If the world were sane, all of Congress would be thrown out in the next election cycle, and replaced by people who believe in serving the people, instead of the current cadre who see themselves as Lords and Ladies and the people as ants.

You're attributing this solely to personal views, but I think it is highly likely that even if we got rid of all current congress people that the next batch to be voted in would do more of the same. I think we need campaign finance reform to reduce the influence of money on politics - especially by greater public finance of campaigns and transparency.
I'm not attributing anything solely to personal views. I'm calling out a specific group of people, and made the case for it. They're monsters. Once again, you're engaging in deflection.

Your conclusions are also suspect. If 100% of the Congressional seats up for election in 2022 flipped, that would be such a radical change that we'd see a seismic shift in politics. I don't know what we'd end up with, but there's no way the established political structure would remain intact without some massive changes.

Not to mention, "campaign finance reform" is a phrase full of self-satisfaction and smugness, and signifying nothing. I've never seen a proposal that wouldn't make things worse, and the specific but vague platitudes you've latched onto are nearly meaningless. More transparency? Except for PACs, there's near total transparency in everything. It's so transparent, that people use it to build political hit lists to go after regular people, which is something we should be blocking not enabling. And we've so limited campaign finance, that politicians spend some obscene percentage of their time making phone calls and attending events, instead of doing anything related to their jobs. State funding would just lock in the existing political class; we'd never see a real outsider, again.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Eirikrautha on July 06, 2021, 04:04:29 PM
You're attributing this solely to personal views, but I think it is highly likely that even if we got rid of all current congress people that the next batch to be voted in would do more of the same. I think we need campaign finance reform to reduce the influence of money on politics - especially by greater public finance of campaigns and transparency.

Your solution is like trying to stop drug use by making drug-dealing illegal.  Supply-side regulation has worked real well against that, huh?  Campaign finance laws are only necessary if there is a lot of money in politics.  And there is only a lot of money in politics if the contributors stand to make way more money than they contribute.  You can't stop money flowing into politicians with laws.  First, they write them.  Second, they ignore them with impunity.  Why do you think there was so much consternation about Ukraine once the Hunter Biden crap started circulating?  Because politicians have used off-shore "projects" to launder money to their families for decades.  It's the same way that they create PR firms for their family to run, then pay the PR firm from their campaign contributions (thereby turning public money into personal profit)... lookin' at you, AOC...

The reason that companies can make so much more money via contributions is because the government controls so much of the economy and day-to-day life.  You really think that the feds regulated the size and imports of toilets to "save the planet"?  Every federal legislation can be leveraged to line someone's pockets.  The reason there is too much money in politics is because the government has too much power.  The only way to reduce the amount of money in politics is to reduce the amount of money that can be made through corrupt politics, and that means reducing the size, scope, and power of government.  A giant, powerful government will always be worth the price paid to influence it.  No one is going to spend millions electing people who can't be used to get rich...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on July 06, 2021, 04:21:38 PM
The reason that companies can make so much more money via contributions is because the government controls so much of the economy and day-to-day life.  You really think that the feds regulated the size and imports of toilets to "save the planet"?  Every federal legislation can be leveraged to line someone's pockets.  The reason there is too much money in politics is because the government has too much power.  The only way to reduce the amount of money in politics is to reduce the amount of money that can be made through corrupt politics, and that means reducing the size, scope, and power of government.  A giant, powerful government will always be worth the price paid to influence it.  No one is going to spend millions electing people who can't be used to get rich...
Agree, but with two caveats: The first is, it's not just about the size of the government, it's also about the size of the government in one place. If the overall governmental power remains constant, but the central government is limited, and most of their power is distributed to the 50 states and 90,000 municipalities, it costs a lot more to bribe them all. It makes lobbying a lot less efficient.

Second, it's not just about size or power, it's also about discretionary authority. If the government's job is enforcing a set of clear rules, with little wriggle room, lobbyists stand to gain a lot less than when government official have broad authority to make or interpret the rules (whether laws or regulations) as they see fit. We live under a vast morass of selectively applied and vague rules.

Decentralization and clear, unambiguous rules are just as important as reigning in the size and power of governments.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on July 06, 2021, 04:30:52 PM
Term limits should be enacted immediately as well, but we all know they won't vote themselves out of power.

I understand the motivation for term limits, but it seems to me they make things worse, not better. They offer no assurance that the new batch will be any better than the previous batch. And as far as I can see historically, lame ducks at the end of their career get even more corrupt than the long-term politicians. California enacted term limits for state legislature in 1990, and I don't feel that it has improved anything here.

Short-term politicians care even less about their popularity once elected, and are more beholden to the long-term lobbyists and department professionals.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on July 06, 2021, 04:38:12 PM
Term limits should be enacted immediately as well, but we all know they won't vote themselves out of power.

I understand the motivation for term limits, but it seems to me they make things worse, not better. They offer no assurance that the new batch will be any better than the previous batch. And as far as I can see historically, lame ducks at the end of their career get even more corrupt than the long-term politicians. California enacted term limits for state legislature in 1990, and I don't feel that it has improved anything here.

Short-term politicians care even less about their popularity once elected, and are more beholden to the long-term lobbyists and department professionals.
Term limits where the politician is executed at the end of their term might solve that problem.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on July 06, 2021, 05:14:41 PM
Short-term politicians care even less about their popularity once elected, and are more beholden to the long-term lobbyists and department professionals.

I have heard arguments for replacing elected politicians with a Monarchy because, in theory, the Monarch will be able to take a much longer term view of issues.

But probably not a popular opinion on the 4th July.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 06, 2021, 05:27:27 PM
Short-term politicians care even less about their popularity once elected, and are more beholden to the long-term lobbyists and department professionals.

I have heard arguments for replacing elected politicians with a Monarchy because, in theory, the Monarch will be able to take a much longer term view of issues.

But probably not a popular opinion on the 4th July.

In theory. In practice, you get a person for life who might be nuts or incompetent or both.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mentally_ill_monarchs#:~:text=authority%20to%20him.-,European%20monarchs,for%20more%20than%20a%20year.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: KingCheops on July 06, 2021, 05:48:16 PM
Short-term politicians care even less about their popularity once elected, and are more beholden to the long-term lobbyists and department professionals.

I have heard arguments for replacing elected politicians with a Monarchy because, in theory, the Monarch will be able to take a much longer term view of issues.

But probably not a popular opinion on the 4th July.

It's a very seductive approach but really hard to get the checks and balances correct.  And God help you if you make the executive hereditary.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on July 06, 2021, 06:51:22 PM
A Congressional lottery would be a good alternative.

A legislature that reflects the people.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 06, 2021, 06:58:18 PM
A Congressional lottery would be a good alternative.

A legislature that reflects the people.

I'd want a caveat that people "drafted" can opt out if they don't want to serve.
Maybe anyone can put their name in the bucket to be drawn, but you don't have to put your name in the bucket if you don't want.
But then we have to ask who's holding the bucket...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on July 06, 2021, 06:59:07 PM
Short-term politicians care even less about their popularity once elected, and are more beholden to the long-term lobbyists and department professionals.

I have heard arguments for replacing elected politicians with a Monarchy because, in theory, the Monarch will be able to take a much longer term view of issues.

But probably not a popular opinion on the 4th July.

In theory. In practice, you get a person for life who might be nuts or incompetent or both.

I am not sure that I see the difference with what you have now?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Zelen on July 06, 2021, 07:06:10 PM
One of the real advantages of a monarchy is we'd presumably have a person who was actually in charge and thus accountable. Heads on pikes is a good motivator, but the pikes are less of a threat when the people whose heads need to be on them are invisible bureaucrats or just jet away to different countries.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Willmark on July 06, 2021, 08:47:14 PM
I'm not attributing anything solely to personal views. I'm calling out a specific group of people, and made the case for it. They're monsters. Once again, you're engaging in deflection.
You're new here right?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 07, 2021, 08:04:27 AM
One of the real advantages of a monarchy is we'd presumably have a person who was actually in charge and thus accountable. Heads on pikes is a good motivator, but the pikes are less of a threat when the people whose heads need to be on them are invisible bureaucrats or just jet away to different countries.
In charge, yes. Accountable? Not so much. There's a reason we've moved away from feudalism and monarchs.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: KingCheops on July 07, 2021, 11:38:43 AM
A Congressional lottery would be a good alternative.

A legislature that reflects the people.

I'd want a caveat that people "drafted" can opt out if they don't want to serve.
Maybe anyone can put their name in the bucket to be drawn, but you don't have to put your name in the bucket if you don't want.
But then we have to ask who's holding the bucket...

I'd go the opposite.  Compulsory state service if you want to vote and have a chance to hold office.  Doesn't have to be military service in this day and age unlike with Athenian Citizen Soldiers but I think having skin in the game is important.  You can opt out of state service but you don't get to participate.

@Ghostmaker:  the lack of accountability was due to the rise in Absolute Monarchy, bureaucracies, and professional armies.  It's more a case of decreasing localization and increasing size of the modern nation state.  It's hard to hold the elite accountable when there's a fanatical, brainwashed military that feels it is different from the rest of citizenry.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on July 07, 2021, 01:39:08 PM
A Congressional lottery would be a good alternative.

A legislature that reflects the people.

I'd want a caveat that people "drafted" can opt out if they don't want to serve.
Maybe anyone can put their name in the bucket to be drawn, but you don't have to put your name in the bucket if you don't want.
But then we have to ask who's holding the bucket...

I'd go the opposite.  Compulsory state service if you want to vote and have a chance to hold office.  Doesn't have to be military service in this day and age unlike with Athenian Citizen Soldiers but I think having skin in the game is important.  You can opt out of state service but you don't get to participate.

@Ghostmaker:  the lack of accountability was due to the rise in Absolute Monarchy, bureaucracies, and professional armies.  It's more a case of decreasing localization and increasing size of the modern nation state.  It's hard to hold the elite accountable when there's a fanatical, brainwashed military that feels it is different from the rest of citizenry.
I'm not sold on compulsory state service, but I do believe in skin in the game.

Your ability to vote should be contingent on whether you are a net contributor to the government, compared to the services you received from the government. In other words, tally up your taxes, and then tally up the value of all the services provided to you by social programs and the like, and see which is higher.

This is absolutely vital, because you shouldn't be able to force other people to spend their money on you. Otherwise, you end up with problems like two wolves and a sheep voting for what's for dinner, or 51% voting themselves the wealth of the remaining 49%. You only get a say if it's your money being spent. For the same reasons, government paychecks should also go in the second column, disenfranchising most government bureaucrats and politicians.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Snowman0147 on July 07, 2021, 02:00:30 PM
There must be skin in the game.  Don't care if it is paid by sweat, money, or blood.  You don't vote if you don't pay.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on July 07, 2021, 06:15:13 PM
We must remember the real victim of the bloody 1/6 nightmare terrorist insurrection white supremacist QAnon fascist coup: The poor reporter who considers the Capitol building to be his girlfriend, and now doesn't want to be with her:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/4avqqn/reporters-survived-capitol-riot-struggling
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Snowman0147 on July 08, 2021, 01:29:40 AM
We must remember the real victim of the bloody 1/6 nightmare terrorist insurrection white supremacist QAnon fascist coup: The poor reporter who considers the Capitol building to be his girlfriend, and now doesn't want to be with her:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/4avqqn/reporters-survived-capitol-riot-struggling

Fuck those whores all the way to hell.  I seen the cops remove the barriers and allowed the crowd to walk in.  I seen the lax security surrounding the building on its most important day.  A day in which you must be crazy, or stupid to have lax security.  It was a fucking set up and no one is fooling me otherwise.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 08, 2021, 08:11:06 AM
We must remember the real victim of the bloody 1/6 nightmare terrorist insurrection white supremacist QAnon fascist coup: The poor reporter who considers the Capitol building to be his girlfriend, and now doesn't want to be with her:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/4avqqn/reporters-survived-capitol-riot-struggling
Ahahahahhahahaha I saw that.

Oh, so many jokes that could be made...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ScytheSong on July 13, 2021, 12:11:35 PM
We must remember the real victim of the bloody 1/6 nightmare terrorist insurrection white supremacist QAnon fascist coup: The poor reporter who considers the Capitol building to be his girlfriend, and now doesn't want to be with her:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/4avqqn/reporters-survived-capitol-riot-struggling
Ahahahahhahahaha I saw that.

Oh, so many jokes that could be made...

Ah, yes. A common response around here. "People were afraid for their lives, and are suffering trauma from it. Funniest thing I've ever heard." Do you also laugh at combat veterans who duck and cover when they hear a backfire?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on July 13, 2021, 12:17:41 PM
We must remember the real victim of the bloody 1/6 nightmare terrorist insurrection white supremacist QAnon fascist coup: The poor reporter who considers the Capitol building to be his girlfriend, and now doesn't want to be with her:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/4avqqn/reporters-survived-capitol-riot-struggling
Ahahahahhahahaha I saw that.

Oh, so many jokes that could be made...

Ah, yes. A common response around here. "People were afraid for their lives, and are suffering trauma from it. Funniest thing I've ever heard." Do you also laugh at combat veterans who duck and cover when they hear a backfire?
If they consider the Capitol their girlfriend, yes.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on July 13, 2021, 12:28:40 PM
We must remember the real victim of the bloody 1/6 nightmare terrorist insurrection white supremacist QAnon fascist coup: The poor reporter who considers the Capitol building to be his girlfriend, and now doesn't want to be with her:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/4avqqn/reporters-survived-capitol-riot-struggling
Ahahahahhahahaha I saw that.

Oh, so many jokes that could be made...

Ah, yes. A common response around here. "People were afraid for their lives, and are suffering trauma from it. Funniest thing I've ever heard." Do you also laugh at combat veterans who duck and cover when they hear a backfire?

   Combat Veteran compared to a person who has never been in a fight, never had a hard day's work, likely never had to do jack shit that was an actual challenge.  Pretty much the exact same things.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ScytheSong on July 13, 2021, 01:33:17 PM
We must remember the real victim of the bloody 1/6 nightmare terrorist insurrection white supremacist QAnon fascist coup: The poor reporter who considers the Capitol building to be his girlfriend, and now doesn't want to be with her:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/4avqqn/reporters-survived-capitol-riot-struggling
Ahahahahhahahaha I saw that.

Oh, so many jokes that could be made...

Ah, yes. A common response around here. "People were afraid for their lives, and are suffering trauma from it. Funniest thing I've ever heard." Do you also laugh at combat veterans who duck and cover when they hear a backfire?

   Combat Veteran compared to a person who has never been in a fight, never had a hard day's work, likely never had to do jack shit that was an actual challenge.  Pretty much the exact same things.

Piles of assumptions here, without any backup -- also typical. Also, still has no clue how PTSD works. At least Pat is honest about their hate of people with mental illness.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 13, 2021, 01:43:51 PM
We must remember the real victim of the bloody 1/6 nightmare terrorist insurrection white supremacist QAnon fascist coup: The poor reporter who considers the Capitol building to be his girlfriend, and now doesn't want to be with her:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/4avqqn/reporters-survived-capitol-riot-struggling
Ahahahahhahahaha I saw that.

Oh, so many jokes that could be made...

Ah, yes. A common response around here. "People were afraid for their lives, and are suffering trauma from it. Funniest thing I've ever heard." Do you also laugh at combat veterans who duck and cover when they hear a backfire?
Because combat veterans and pampered media flacks have so much in common.

Eat shit and die.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: deadDMwalking on July 13, 2021, 02:32:09 PM
We must remember the real victim of the bloody 1/6 nightmare terrorist insurrection white supremacist QAnon fascist coup: The poor reporter who considers the Capitol building to be his girlfriend, and now doesn't want to be with her:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/4avqqn/reporters-survived-capitol-riot-struggling
Ahahahahhahahaha I saw that.

Oh, so many jokes that could be made...

Ah, yes. A common response around here. "People were afraid for their lives, and are suffering trauma from it. Funniest thing I've ever heard." Do you also laugh at combat veterans who duck and cover when they hear a backfire?

   Combat Veteran compared to a person who has never been in a fight, never had a hard day's work, likely never had to do jack shit that was an actual challenge.  Pretty much the exact same things.

From the article:

Bresnahan, a Navy veteran who has covered Congress since 1994 and co-founded the D.C. newsletter Punchbowl News, said returning to the Capitol after the riots was difficult.

So combat veteran compared to Navy veteran.  But sure, most military veterans have 'never been in a fight'.  You're not being disingenuous at all. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ScytheSong on July 13, 2021, 03:00:25 PM
We must remember the real victim of the bloody 1/6 nightmare terrorist insurrection white supremacist QAnon fascist coup: The poor reporter who considers the Capitol building to be his girlfriend, and now doesn't want to be with her:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/4avqqn/reporters-survived-capitol-riot-struggling
Ahahahahhahahaha I saw that.

Oh, so many jokes that could be made...

Ah, yes. A common response around here. "People were afraid for their lives, and are suffering trauma from it. Funniest thing I've ever heard." Do you also laugh at combat veterans who duck and cover when they hear a backfire?
Because combat veterans and pampered media flacks have so much in common.

Eat shit and die.

You first, asshole.

I hope you wind up in a situation where you are no-shit in fear for your own life or for the ones you love (if your asshole self actually is capable of loving others), and then are asked to return to that situation, day after day. In fact, for the first time, I'm going to wish my luck on another human being:
 
I wish that you will be forced to  watch as your prematurely born child rots from the inside out until you are forced to make the call -- by yourself, because your spouse forces you to -- to turn off life support on a two-week old.

I wish that you will have the force of will to raise that dead premie's crippled surviving twin to adulthood knowing that they will never see, never have the mental or emotional capability to hold a job, and never form a loving relationship outside their immediate family.

I wish that you will have your spouse die suddenly, of a preventable disease, during the holidays while you are more than 2000 miles from home.

I wish you to have enough traumatic experiences in and around hospitals that, when you hear an alarm that sounds like a low-oxygen alert, you will have full-sensory flashbacks to any of the times you have been in a hospital and been forced to watch a loved one die.

So I wish on anyone who thinks PTSD is anything to joke about.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 13, 2021, 03:21:42 PM
We must remember the real victim of the bloody 1/6 nightmare terrorist insurrection white supremacist QAnon fascist coup: The poor reporter who considers the Capitol building to be his girlfriend, and now doesn't want to be with her:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/4avqqn/reporters-survived-capitol-riot-struggling
Ahahahahhahahaha I saw that.

Oh, so many jokes that could be made...

Ah, yes. A common response around here. "People were afraid for their lives, and are suffering trauma from it. Funniest thing I've ever heard." Do you also laugh at combat veterans who duck and cover when they hear a backfire?
Because combat veterans and pampered media flacks have so much in common.

Eat shit and die.

You first, asshole.

I hope you wind up in a situation where you are no-shit in fear for your own life or for the ones you love (if your asshole self actually is capable of loving others), and then are asked to return to that situation, day after day. In fact, for the first time, I'm going to wish my luck on another human being:
 
I wish that you will be forced to  watch as your prematurely born child rots from the inside out until you are forced to make the call -- by yourself, because your spouse forces you to -- to turn off life support on a two-week old.

I wish that you will have the force of will to raise that dead premie's crippled surviving twin to adulthood knowing that they will never see, never have the mental or emotional capability to hold a job, and never form a loving relationship outside their immediate family.

I wish that you will have your spouse die suddenly, of a preventable disease, during the holidays while you are more than 2000 miles from home.

I wish you to have enough traumatic experiences in and around hospitals that, when you hear an alarm that sounds like a low-oxygen alert, you will have full-sensory flashbacks to any of the times you have been in a hospital and been forced to watch a loved one die.

So I wish on anyone who thinks PTSD is anything to joke about.
Someone's feeling their oats.

You see, you're not saying anything that hasn't already been said. We've been called traitors, villains, monsters, racists, etcetera, ad nauseum. What else are you going to say? Are you going to take me off the Christmas card list as well?

That's okay though. It's always good when someone has the gumption to declare themselves a sworn enemy.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on July 13, 2021, 03:26:05 PM
We must remember the real victim of the bloody 1/6 nightmare terrorist insurrection white supremacist QAnon fascist coup: The poor reporter who considers the Capitol building to be his girlfriend, and now doesn't want to be with her:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/4avqqn/reporters-survived-capitol-riot-struggling
Ahahahahhahahaha I saw that.

Oh, so many jokes that could be made...

Ah, yes. A common response around here. "People were afraid for their lives, and are suffering trauma from it. Funniest thing I've ever heard." Do you also laugh at combat veterans who duck and cover when they hear a backfire?

   Combat Veteran compared to a person who has never been in a fight, never had a hard day's work, likely never had to do jack shit that was an actual challenge.  Pretty much the exact same things.

Piles of assumptions here, without any backup -- also typical. Also, still has no clue how PTSD works. At least Pat is honest about their hate of people with mental illness.
At least you're completely dishonest about everything.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 13, 2021, 03:35:19 PM
We must remember the real victim of the bloody 1/6 nightmare terrorist insurrection white supremacist QAnon fascist coup: The poor reporter who considers the Capitol building to be his girlfriend, and now doesn't want to be with her:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/4avqqn/reporters-survived-capitol-riot-struggling
Ahahahahhahahaha I saw that.

Oh, so many jokes that could be made...

Ah, yes. A common response around here. "People were afraid for their lives, and are suffering trauma from it. Funniest thing I've ever heard." Do you also laugh at combat veterans who duck and cover when they hear a backfire?

   Combat Veteran compared to a person who has never been in a fight, never had a hard day's work, likely never had to do jack shit that was an actual challenge.  Pretty much the exact same things.

Piles of assumptions here, without any backup -- also typical. Also, still has no clue how PTSD works. At least Pat is honest about their hate of people with mental illness.
At least you're completely dishonest about everything.
I'm still kind of amused he poured that litany of woe out at me. If he'd left it at 'fuck you and die', he'd have been better off.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ScytheSong on July 13, 2021, 03:41:24 PM
I'm still kind of amused he poured that litany of woe out at me. If he'd left it at 'fuck you and die', he'd have been better off.

No, seriously. I don't want you to die for a long, long, time. Just like no one "gets" Humperdink.

Pat can be part of that, too, if they want.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 13, 2021, 03:48:47 PM
I'm still kind of amused he poured that litany of woe out at me. If he'd left it at 'fuck you and die', he'd have been better off.

No, seriously. I don't want you to die for a long, long, time. Just like no one "gets" Humperdink.

Pat can be part of that, too, if they want.
Say when, pussy.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on July 13, 2021, 03:56:51 PM
Greetings!

It's always such a tragedy knowing that nice, sweet, media types sob and experience such deep trauma. Perhaps they should leave the media business and go work at a children's play center with Barney to hold their hand. ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 13, 2021, 04:06:15 PM
Greetings!

It's always such a tragedy knowing that nice, sweet, media types sob and experience such deep trauma. Perhaps they should leave the media business and go work at a children's play center with Barney to hold their hand. ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
No one talks about the trauma or PTSD experienced by countless people who were victims of the 2020 riots, who lost homes and loved ones.

But we're supposed to sympathize with pampered media bootlickers over what amounted to an extended LARP in the Capitol building.

Yeah, fuck that.

Long term prediction: at some point, the First Amendment and freedom of press are going to be brutally, drastically curtailed. And it will be, at least in part, because some fuckwits couldn't remember their job was to report the news, not shape the narrative.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on July 13, 2021, 04:24:23 PM
No one talks about the trauma or PTSD experienced by countless people who were victims of the 2020 riots, who lost homes and loved ones.
That's not entirely true. Here are a few examples of police dealing with PTSD after the events of the past year.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/minneapolis-police-ptsd-floyd-protests/2020/07/10/e2bbf5dc-c2fd-11ea-b4f6-cb39cd8940fb_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/minneapolis-police-ptsd-floyd-protests/2020/07/10/e2bbf5dc-c2fd-11ea-b4f6-cb39cd8940fb_story.html)
https://www.newsweek.com/minneapolis-police-george-floyd-ptsd-protests-1516855 (https://www.newsweek.com/minneapolis-police-george-floyd-ptsd-protests-1516855)
https://www.foxnews.com/us/minneapolis-police-officers-ptsd-duty-disability-protest (https://www.foxnews.com/us/minneapolis-police-officers-ptsd-duty-disability-protest)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ScytheSong on July 13, 2021, 04:43:48 PM
I'm still kind of amused he poured that litany of woe out at me. If he'd left it at 'fuck you and die', he'd have been better off.

No, seriously. I don't want you to die for a long, long, time. Just like no one "gets" Humperdink.

Pat can be part of that, too, if they want.
Say when, pussy.

2060. 2060 is a good time to keel over. Otherwise, keep being your miserable empathy free assholish self, and see where it gets you.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 13, 2021, 05:04:27 PM
I'm still kind of amused he poured that litany of woe out at me. If he'd left it at 'fuck you and die', he'd have been better off.

No, seriously. I don't want you to die for a long, long, time. Just like no one "gets" Humperdink.

Pat can be part of that, too, if they want.
Say when, pussy.

2060. 2060 is a good time to keel over. Otherwise, keep being your miserable empathy free assholish self, and see where it gets you.
That's what I thought. *snort*
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on July 13, 2021, 05:05:00 PM
Maybe the reporter could have holed up with AOC several blocks away from the action?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 13, 2021, 05:21:14 PM
We must remember the real victim of the bloody 1/6 nightmare terrorist insurrection white supremacist QAnon fascist coup: The poor reporter who considers the Capitol building to be his girlfriend, and now doesn't want to be with her:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/4avqqn/reporters-survived-capitol-riot-struggling
Ahahahahhahahaha I saw that.

Oh, so many jokes that could be made...

Ah, yes. A common response around here. "People were afraid for their lives, and are suffering trauma from it. Funniest thing I've ever heard." Do you also laugh at combat veterans who duck and cover when they hear a backfire?

https://www.history.com/news/shot-in-the-chest-100-years-ago-teddy-roosevelt-kept-on-talking

Boo fucking hoo. The only one killed in the 1/6 goofiness was a Trump supporter. People march on the Capital all the time, people have "invaded" the Capital building often enough to make it unremarkable. These specific people want to milk the event for thier own political gain.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on July 13, 2021, 05:35:10 PM
I'm still kind of amused he poured that litany of woe out at me. If he'd left it at 'fuck you and die', he'd have been better off.

No, seriously. I don't want you to die for a long, long, time. Just like no one "gets" Humperdink.

Pat can be part of that, too, if they want.
Sure why not.

Remember to lie about it in your answer, otherwise it wouldn't ScytheSongish.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: DocJones on July 13, 2021, 06:51:52 PM
This seemed appropriate for this thread. 

(https://leganerd.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/ErNSiKVXcAE_VHB-699x682.jpg)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: ScytheSong on July 13, 2021, 07:22:53 PM
I'm still kind of amused he poured that litany of woe out at me. If he'd left it at 'fuck you and die', he'd have been better off.

No, seriously. I don't want you to die for a long, long, time. Just like no one "gets" Humperdink.

Pat can be part of that, too, if they want.
Say when, pussy.

2060. 2060 is a good time to keel over. Otherwise, keep being your miserable empathy free assholish self, and see where it gets you.
That's what I thought. *snort*

Reading comprehension fail. Why am I not surprised? Either that or you missed the Princess Bride reference, which marks you as culturally illiterate rather than merely unable to follow an actual adult conversation. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on July 13, 2021, 09:18:12 PM
I'm still kind of amused he poured that litany of woe out at me. If he'd left it at 'fuck you and die', he'd have been better off.

No, seriously. I don't want you to die for a long, long, time. Just like no one "gets" Humperdink.

Pat can be part of that, too, if they want.
Say when, pussy.

2060. 2060 is a good time to keel over. Otherwise, keep being your miserable empathy free assholish self, and see where it gets you.
That's what I thought. *snort*

Reading comprehension fail. Why am I not surprised? Either that or you missed the Princess Bride reference, which marks you as culturally illiterate rather than merely unable to follow an actual adult conversation.

Ah, so its a fight to the pain then.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 13, 2021, 09:32:50 PM
I'm still kind of amused he poured that litany of woe out at me. If he'd left it at 'fuck you and die', he'd have been better off.

No, seriously. I don't want you to die for a long, long, time. Just like no one "gets" Humperdink.

Pat can be part of that, too, if they want.
Say when, pussy.

2060. 2060 is a good time to keel over. Otherwise, keep being your miserable empathy free assholish self, and see where it gets you.
That's what I thought. *snort*

Reading comprehension fail. Why am I not surprised? Either that or you missed the Princess Bride reference, which marks you as culturally illiterate rather than merely unable to follow an actual adult conversation.
Keep talking. Maybe you'll say something to make up for all the other stupid things you've said.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Trond on July 15, 2021, 08:13:43 AM
This seemed appropriate for this thread. 

(https://leganerd.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/ErNSiKVXcAE_VHB-699x682.jpg)

Between all the hastily made memes out there I'm impressed with this one :D
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 15, 2021, 08:18:35 AM
It's like the meme of the guy walking out with San Fran Nan's podium. 'Why are you so mad at this guy? He's just taking a political stand.'

The latest round of gaslighting from Dems is to try and repaint themselves as supporters of the police, and that it was the Republicans who wanted to defund and cripple 'the thin blue line'.

Unsurprising, but I admit I'm impressed with the sheer chutzpah after last year's 'peaceful protests' and the Democrat support for them.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on July 15, 2021, 08:11:08 PM
I did not realise that the Capitol Police are not answerable to the American public unlike every other Executive branch.

Basically Pelosis private security force.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on July 15, 2021, 08:28:16 PM
I did not realise that the Capitol Police are not answerable to the American public unlike every other Executive branch.

Basically Pelosis private security force.
Whatcha gonna do? Defund them?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on July 15, 2021, 08:29:35 PM
I did not realise that the Capitol Police are not answerable to the American public unlike every other Executive branch.

Basically Pelosis private security force.
Whatcha gonna do? Defund them?
We should replace them with a chorus of men trained to say "Yes Ma'am" to anything Pelosi asks.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on July 15, 2021, 09:03:24 PM
I did not realise that the Capitol Police are not answerable to the American public unlike every other Executive branch.

Basically Pelosis private security force.
Whatcha gonna do? Defund them?

I already did.  I provide 0 dollars to them.  Have for years now.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on July 16, 2021, 12:58:19 AM
I did not realise that the Capitol Police are not answerable to the American public unlike every other Executive branch.

Basically Pelosis private security force.
Whatcha gonna do? Defund them?

I already did.  I provide 0 dollars to them.  Have for years now.
Your impotent efforts have accomplished nothing.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 16, 2021, 02:44:55 PM
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/16/hunter-biden-probe-prosecutor-499782

Remember, this is Politico, not known for it's hard conservative leanings.

It's Hillary all fucking over again. 'Oh noez, we can't investigate it might interfere with the election'.

But hey, no more mean tweets amirite?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on July 16, 2021, 03:13:18 PM
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/16/hunter-biden-probe-prosecutor-499782

Remember, this is Politico, not known for it's hard conservative leanings.

It's Hillary all fucking over again. 'Oh noez, we can't investigate it might interfere with the election'.

But hey, no more mean tweets amirite?
Shouldn't the laws about interfering with elections apply? At the very least, isn't that a flagrant example of prosecutorial misconduct that should get all involved permanently disbarred?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on July 16, 2021, 03:30:35 PM
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/16/hunter-biden-probe-prosecutor-499782

Remember, this is Politico, not known for it's hard conservative leanings.

It's Hillary all fucking over again. 'Oh noez, we can't investigate it might interfere with the election'.

But hey, no more mean tweets amirite?
Shouldn't the laws about interfering with elections apply? At the very least, isn't that a flagrant example of prosecutorial misconduct that should get all involved permanently disbarred?

Of course it is.  Your mistaken assumption is that everyone is equal before the law.
This stuff will just continue until someone starts killing prosecutors and judges.  Then we might see some change.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on July 16, 2021, 03:56:42 PM
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/16/hunter-biden-probe-prosecutor-499782

Remember, this is Politico, not known for it's hard conservative leanings.

It's Hillary all fucking over again. 'Oh noez, we can't investigate it might interfere with the election'.

But hey, no more mean tweets amirite?

But... it was Trump's administration that was in charge of the investigation during the presidential campaign. Trump appointed Weiss who has handled the case. Trump got to see the progress, and had the option during the campaign to assign a special prosecutor or reassign Weiss. And according to the article, President Biden has left the investigation in place as Trump set it up, with the same people in charge.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Eirikrautha on July 16, 2021, 04:07:12 PM
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/16/hunter-biden-probe-prosecutor-499782

Remember, this is Politico, not known for it's hard conservative leanings.

It's Hillary all fucking over again. 'Oh noez, we can't investigate it might interfere with the election'.

But hey, no more mean tweets amirite?

But... it was Trump's administration that was in charge of the investigation during the presidential campaign. Trump appointed Weiss who has handled the case. Trump got to see the progress, and had the option during the campaign to assign a special prosecutor or reassign Weiss. And according to the article, President Biden has left the investigation in place as Trump set it up, with the same people in charge.
Hmmm, I wonder why Biden would be comfortable letting Weiss stay on the case?  Unless...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on July 16, 2021, 04:32:32 PM
This seemed appropriate for this thread. 

(https://leganerd.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/ErNSiKVXcAE_VHB-699x682.jpg)

Between all the hastily made memes out there I'm impressed with this one :D

Greetings!

TROND! This is hilarious! I used to love LEGOS as a kid. I'd be seriously tempted tp buy a real LEGO set like this, just for nostalgia and laughs. I know *many* friends that would roar laughing seeing this, you know? An instant hit as a conversation piece!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Zelen on July 16, 2021, 05:04:47 PM
The bureaucracy is rotten from top to bottom, and restoring that pesky "rule of law" will probably involve making at least a few examples.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 16, 2021, 05:25:25 PM
Collection of Pcircling Psaki's talk about suppressing of freedom of speech here. http://ace.mu.nu/archives/394781.php (yes, Ace is right wing. Eat shit.)

Glenn Greenwald weighs in here: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/congress-escalates-pressure-on-tech

This is absolutely appalling.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on July 16, 2021, 05:52:38 PM
I did not realise that the Capitol Police are not answerable to the American public unlike every other Executive branch.

Basically Pelosis private security force.
Whatcha gonna do? Defund them?

I already did.  I provide 0 dollars to them.  Have for years now.
Your impotent efforts have accomplished nothing.

Have they, Happydaze.  Have they.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 16, 2021, 06:01:43 PM
Collection of Pcircling Psaki's talk about suppressing of freedom of speech here. http://ace.mu.nu/archives/394781.php (yes, Ace is right wing. Eat shit.)

Glenn Greenwald weighs in here: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/congress-escalates-pressure-on-tech

This is absolutely appalling.

I feel like we're at the point where the train has already jumped the chasm and is floating in midair before falling and exploding.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 21, 2021, 08:17:13 AM
Collection of Pcircling Psaki's talk about suppressing of freedom of speech here. http://ace.mu.nu/archives/394781.php (yes, Ace is right wing. Eat shit.)

Glenn Greenwald weighs in here: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/congress-escalates-pressure-on-tech

This is absolutely appalling.

I feel like we're at the point where the train has already jumped the chasm and is floating in midair before falling and exploding.
Pretty much. The irony is insane.

The left spent four-plus years screaming about how Trump was a 'fascist'. Not even a full fucking year after Polident Sleepy Joe and Cackles the Kneepad Jockey are sworn in, there's Raggedy Jen Psaki talking up how the government needs to work with Facebook to block 'disinformation' and that people who are kicked off one social media platform should be removed from all of them.

Business subordinate to and working for government whims. This is literally fucking fascism.

I can grok 'I don't like Trump'. What I cannot grasp is why anyone would support this pack of retards in D.C.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 22, 2021, 01:07:36 PM
"And the question is whether or not we should be in a position where are why can't the experts say we know that this virus is in fact it's going to be or excuse we know why the all the drugs approved are not temporarily approved and but permanently approved, that's underway too." --Polident Sleepy Joe.

But hey, no more mean tweets, right?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Zelen on July 23, 2021, 06:32:56 AM
I really miss being able to think about the future without wondering what kind of novel ways the government is concocting to screw me over.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: rawma on July 28, 2021, 12:24:46 AM
I really miss being able to think about the future without wondering what kind of novel ways the government is concocting to screw me over.

You've never had to wonder that before? Lucky.

How about those January 6th hearings? I guess Donald Trump will execute witnesses and commission members when he's reinstated next month, but in the meantime it's fascinating stuff.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on July 28, 2021, 12:42:09 AM
So its not just Happydaze loving that conspiracy theory.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Reckall on July 28, 2021, 07:32:47 PM
Collection of Pcircling Psaki's talk about suppressing of freedom of speech here. http://ace.mu.nu/archives/394781.php (yes, Ace is right wing. Eat shit.)

Glenn Greenwald weighs in here: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/congress-escalates-pressure-on-tech

This is absolutely appalling.

Nothing that didn't already happen in America. Just look for "The Sedition Act" by John Adams, or for "The New Sedition Act" by Woodroof Wilson, when America entered WWI. It was Oliver Wendell Holmes who wrote the Supreme Court opinion that found the act constitutional - after the war ended, and upholding lengthy prison terms for the defendants - arguing that the First Amendment doesn't protect speech if "the words used . . . create a clear and present danger." That's a recorded precedent.

 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on July 28, 2021, 07:57:04 PM
Collection of Pcircling Psaki's talk about suppressing of freedom of speech here. http://ace.mu.nu/archives/394781.php (yes, Ace is right wing. Eat shit.)

Glenn Greenwald weighs in here: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/congress-escalates-pressure-on-tech

This is absolutely appalling.

Nothing that didn't already happen in America. Just look for "The Sedition Act" by John Adams, or for "The New Sedition Act" by Woodroof Wilson, when America entered WWI. It was Oliver Wendell Holmes who wrote the Supreme Court opinion that found the act constitutional - after the war ended, and upholding lengthy prison terms for the defendants - arguing that the First Amendment doesn't protect speech if "the words used . . . create a clear and present danger." That's a recorded precedent.
Now that silence is violence I am sure the powers that be will do all they can to stop the danger.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 29, 2021, 08:18:17 AM
Collection of Pcircling Psaki's talk about suppressing of freedom of speech here. http://ace.mu.nu/archives/394781.php (yes, Ace is right wing. Eat shit.)

Glenn Greenwald weighs in here: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/congress-escalates-pressure-on-tech

This is absolutely appalling.

Nothing that didn't already happen in America. Just look for "The Sedition Act" by John Adams, or for "The New Sedition Act" by Woodroof Wilson, when America entered WWI. It was Oliver Wendell Holmes who wrote the Supreme Court opinion that found the act constitutional - after the war ended, and upholding lengthy prison terms for the defendants - arguing that the First Amendment doesn't protect speech if "the words used . . . create a clear and present danger." That's a recorded precedent.
Not quite getting my point.

The mechanisms that are being deployed rely on both government AND business working hand in hand to suppress dissent, in ways that even Wilson would never have dreamed of (though he's probably got a stiffy in the afterlife over this).

This is fascism. Actual fascism.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Reckall on July 29, 2021, 09:18:07 AM
Collection of Pcircling Psaki's talk about suppressing of freedom of speech here. http://ace.mu.nu/archives/394781.php (yes, Ace is right wing. Eat shit.)

Glenn Greenwald weighs in here: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/congress-escalates-pressure-on-tech

This is absolutely appalling.

Nothing that didn't already happen in America. Just look for "The Sedition Act" by John Adams, or for "The New Sedition Act" by Woodroof Wilson, when America entered WWI. It was Oliver Wendell Holmes who wrote the Supreme Court opinion that found the act constitutional - after the war ended, and upholding lengthy prison terms for the defendants - arguing that the First Amendment doesn't protect speech if "the words used . . . create a clear and present danger." That's a recorded precedent.
Not quite getting my point.

The mechanisms that are being deployed rely on both government AND business working hand in hand to suppress dissent, in ways that even Wilson would never have dreamed of (though he's probably got a stiffy in the afterlife over this).

Are you joking? When Wilson launched his "American Crusade in Europe" in 1917 he basically created Fascism before Mussolini even had a clue.

I would say "do a bit of research". But I hated when "Fate of Cthulhu" wrote that. My primary source is The Great Influenza, by John M. Barry, but after reading that I got curious and I got independent confirmation about what happened.

Briefly:

"The federal government [...] took control over much of national life. The War Industries Board allocated raw materials to factories, guaranteed profits, and controlled production and prices of war materials, and, with the National War Labor Board, it set wages as well. The Railroad Administration virtually nationalized the American railroad industry. The Fuel Administration controlled fuel distribution (and to save fuel it also instituted daylight savings time). The Food Administration—under Herbert Hoover—oversaw agricultural production, pricing, and distribution. [So much for the private sector]"

"Walter Lippmann [one of the most influential political journalists of the Era] wrote Wilson a memo on creating a publicity bureau on April 12, 1917, a week after America declared war. One outgrowth of the Progressive Era, of the emergence of experts in many fields, was the conviction that an elite knew best [Hmmm... Isn't Lovecraft crucified for having expressed a similar idea?]. Lippmann later called society “too big, too complex” for the average person to comprehend, since most citizens were “mentally children or barbarians. . . . Self-determination [is] only one of the many interests of a human personality.” Lippmann urged that self-rule be subordinated to “order,” “rights,” and “prosperity.”

The day after receiving the memo, Wilson issued Executive Order 2594, creating the Committee on Public Information—the CPI—and named George Creel its head. [In Italy, Mussolini created exactly the same thing in 1934. It was later named MinCulPop - "Ministero per la Cultura Popolare".]"


"Throughout the country, the American Vigilance Patrol targeted “seditious street oratory,” sometimes calling upon the police to arrest speakers for disorderly conduct, sometimes acting more . . . directly. And everywhere the league spied on neighbors, investigated “slackers” and “food hoarders,” demanded to know why people didn’t buy—or didn’t buy more—Liberty Bonds."

"Songs that might hurt morale were prohibited [...] along with “questionable jokes and other jokes, which while apparently harmless, have a hidden sting—which leave the poison of discontent and worry and anxiety in the minds of the soldiers and cause them to fret about home. . . . [T]he songs and jokes were the culmination of letter writing propaganda instigated by the Huns in which they told lying tales to the men of alleged conditions of suffering at home. [Basically, the USA went full TBP.]"

It is amazing that America was resilient enough to climb out from this hole after WWI - but, the way I see it, this problem is endemic in America's social fabric. The mass pro-war hysteria in 2003 didn't even need laws. If you spoke against the war or the President you were "cancelled ante litteram". Just ask the Dixie Chicks. When the critics were proved right, they were hated even more - a very common psychological reaction, actually.

Don't underestimate America's inclination for crystallising around one ideal, every other value, virtue and principle be damned.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 29, 2021, 09:36:00 AM
It seems like you're desperately trying to find an equivalence between the current fascistic systems, and 'get woke, go broke' responses to tone-deaf entertainers (which is where the Dixie Chicks fell into).

There was no government backlash on the Chicks. Hell, there wasn't much of a corporate one either. They just decided to take a spectacularly unpopular political stance, and their audience walked off.

Meanwhile, we get things like Operation Chokepoint.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Reckall on July 29, 2021, 10:20:34 AM
It seems like you're desperately trying to find an equivalence between the current fascistic systems, and 'get woke, go broke' responses to tone-deaf entertainers (which is where the Dixie Chicks fell into).

I'm not "desperately trying" to do anything. I'm simply pointing out how, historically, the US demonstrated over and over how they can forget their founding principles fast. In 1917-19 America became a Fascist state crystallised around the "Crusade in Europe". Should I also mention how people were arrested and interned because they taught German in high-school?

At which point you missed how Oliver Wendell Holmes created a Supreme Court Precedent about how "The First Amendment Can Be Thrown Away In Any Moment For... Reasons"?

Quote
There was no government backlash on the Chicks. Hell, there wasn't much of a corporate one either. They just decided to take a spectacularly unpopular political stance, and their audience walked off.

And at which point you missed "The mass pro-war hysteria in 2003 didn't even need laws."? The Dixie Chicks also happened to be right - because you didn't need a genius to see how the US were about to make one of the most serious mistakes in their history, the Dixie Chicks were enough. Yet, they remained cancelled. They never recovered.

How many people, today, say sane, basic things and are cancelled for that thanks to the current climate of mass hysteria? (Which is everywhere, BTW: RPGs? Hysteria. Masks? Hysteria. Politics? Hysteria. Pop culture? Hysteria...) How many of them remain cancelled after being proven right? (answer: almost all of them) Are you seriously defending this state of things?

Quote
Meanwhile, we get things like Operation Chokepoint.

Meanwhile, you also get things like Operation Chokepoint.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 29, 2021, 10:36:22 AM
Show me where leftist foolishness (as opposed to conservative foolishness) has been punished with the full support and imprimatur of both corporate and government entities.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Reckall on July 29, 2021, 11:04:18 AM
Show me where leftist foolishness (as opposed to conservative foolishness) has been punished with the full support and imprimatur of both corporate and government entities.

You are asking me for proof that corporate entities went against the Left (in an all around sense)... in the USA?? Seriously?😂

When I posted about what basically was the nationalization of the private sector in 1917, did I also posted about the corporate pushback? No, because there was none.

Regarding "leftist foolishness", please, define "foolish" first - because I suspect that this term, today, often brings a lack of objectiveness in the discourse (the same way that "problematic" does).
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 29, 2021, 11:19:23 AM
I see you writing, but all I'm reading is 'but this isn't unprecedented' despite this being very much UNprecedented in terms of scope, reach, and vitriol.

I really don't understand what kind of point you're trying to make here. My stance is that the left, using an unholy fusion of ideology that crosses both corporate and government lines, is attempting to silence dissent in absolutely appalling ways. And that even liberals should be up in arms about it, because if nothing else, they had better hope nobody else gets their hands on these powers.

Meanwhile, the Bush administration didn't serve the Dixie Chicks with a court order to shut up. Myspace didn't shut their fanpage down (did they have a Myspace page? I dunno). They lost album and concert revenue, but that was because they went out of their way to piss off country music fans, who were (and still are) pretty conservative. And they stopped listening.


Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: KingCheops on July 29, 2021, 11:25:08 AM
Even Conservatives condemn McCarthy these days.  Even though he was completely correct.

Meanwhile the people that bitch incessantly about McCarthy are now using the same methods he did.  If what happened then was wrong why is it okay now?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Reckall on July 29, 2021, 11:58:22 AM
I see you writing, but all I'm reading is 'but this isn't unprecedented' despite this being very much UNprecedented in terms of scope, reach, and vitriol.

I never thought to quote myself as a reference, but here you are:

How many people, today, say sane, basic things and are cancelled for that thanks to the current climate of mass hysteria? (Which is everywhere, BTW: RPGs? Hysteria. Masks? Hysteria. Politics? Hysteria. Pop culture? Hysteria...)

Maybe I should have added "I yearn for the times when mass hysteria was for one thing..."

Quote
I really don't understand what kind of point you're trying to make here.

Don't underestimate America's inclination for crystallising around one ideal, every other value, virtue and principle be damned.

If anything, today we have a polarisation, with opposing ideals clashing across the whole society's fabric. I still stand by the way people crystallise around these ideals.

Quote
My stance is that the left, using an unholy fusion of ideology that crosses both corporate and government lines, is attempting to silence dissent in absolutely appalling ways.

I think you missed what the previous administration attempted to do. Again, I'm not American. I don't have a dog in this race (except when American politics touch my hobbies). I look from outside and I see a country at war with itself for reasons that, IMHO, are not even really understood by their extremists (and that others, on both sides, are happy to ride for their own gain).

Quote
And that even liberals should be up in arms about it, because if nothing else, they had better hope nobody else gets their hands on these powers.

Some of them do. I personally posted the worries of liberal thinkers... well, in the RPG forum, cough, and I got a warning by the Pundit. But when you see Christians, atheists and liberals expressing the very same worries, and quoting each other, you know that something deep down is very wrong in that society.

Quote
Meanwhile, the Bush administration didn't serve the Dixie Chicks with a court order to shut up. Myspace didn't shut their fanpage down (did they have a Myspace page? I dunno). They lost album and concert revenue, but that was because they went out of their way to piss off country music fans, who were (and still are) pretty conservative. And they stopped listening.

Again: they went against a mass hysteria so deep and vast that it didn't even need laws. They were also right. No one said "Well, you were right and tried to warn us but I was too convinced of my ideas and instead I cancelled you. I'm sorry. Friends again?" (Well, maybe a couple of dudes did that, dunno).

How many times we will hear from TBP (or Twitter for what it matters) "You were right about the fact that 'escapism' is just that, and not a way to justify 'racism' and 'colonialism', but I was too convinced of my ideas and instead I cancelled you. I'm sorry. Friends again?"

My money is on none. Nor I see a difference between these two examples.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on July 29, 2021, 12:38:10 PM
Meanwhile, the Bush administration didn't serve the Dixie Chicks with a court order to shut up. Myspace didn't shut their fanpage down (did they have a Myspace page? I dunno). They lost album and concert revenue, but that was because they went out of their way to piss off country music fans, who were (and still are) pretty conservative. And they stopped listening.

Again: they went against a mass hysteria so deep and vast that it didn't even need laws. They were also right. No one said "Well, you were right and tried to warn us but I was too convinced of my ideas and instead I cancelled you. I'm sorry. Friends again?" (Well, maybe a couple of dudes did that, dunno).

How many times we will hear from TBP (or Twitter for what it matters) "You were right about the fact that 'escapism' is just that, and not a way to justify 'racism' and 'colonialism', but I was too convinced of my ideas and instead I cancelled you. I'm sorry. Friends again?"

My money is on none. Nor I see a difference between these two examples.

While your points on old WW are correct...
 (Top 3 worst presidents of all time and my personal pick for the number 1 spot because he laid the ground work for FDR and LBJ)

...I think you are missing some of the context for 2003.  The media helped Bush/Cheney gin up the hysteria and tie it to 9/11.  If there was any real desire to invade Iraq by the public, they wouldn't have needed to lie and obfuscate as much.  There actually was a chunk of us in the United States who opposed it, the independents and a lot of the hard left.  Since there was almost nil media coverage because it didn't fit the establishment narrative I would imagine most people who weren't right here would have been very aware of it.

That is the real difference this time and why the fascists are going ballistic.  Everyone with a cellphone can get the news out and the establishment has to really turn the screws in order to suppress it.  Getting an outsider in (Trump) fucked up their plans and they had to destroy him. Unfortunately for them, they had to take the masks off to do it. 

That is where the visceral reaction is coming from.  For fuck's sake you have governments openly defying the Nuremberg Code and trying to 'justify' it.  The last time western civilization executed a bunch of medical personnel for this.  That kind of 'caution to the winds' activity is the sign of either a cornered rat or someone who thinks they can't lose at this point...

...but if you can't lose, why upset the apple cart on the way?

To Ghostmaker's point...

The Dixie Chicks are a bad example for your argument because there actually is a difference and it is a very important distinction. 

No matter whether the hysteria was ginned up by media and the government, it WAS their fans who quit buying their stuff.  The government did not use lawfare against them, financial institutions did not illegally seize their assets, and they weren't removed from the public sphere at the request of the government.  That is the distinction he is making.

Now whether or not Jr would have tried it if he thought he could get away with it is another debate.  Personally, I think he was just happy to get the POLICE STATE PATRIOT Act passed and was playing the long game...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Trond on July 29, 2021, 12:59:42 PM


Don't underestimate America's inclination for crystallising around one ideal, every other value, virtue and principle be damned.


As a side note; even Tolkien sometimes talked about the American tendency to easily "kindle" around new trends.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on July 29, 2021, 04:43:51 PM
Even Conservatives condemn McCarthy these days.  Even though he was completely correct.

Meanwhile the people that bitch incessantly about McCarthy are now using the same methods he did.  If what happened then was wrong why is it okay now?

Because if they did not have double standards then they would not have any.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on August 13, 2021, 12:55:28 PM
So, here we are: August 13, the day Trump is supposed to return to the White House...

C'mon, you assholes, get back to cheering for your Orange Man because the Pillow Prophet can't be wrong, right?

I'm off to watch Free Guy, which is likely far too realistic for the ever-Trumpers to enjoy, but I hope we have some more idiotic rumblings from those idiots here that still feel the election will be overturned. Please, amuse me further.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: The Spaniard on August 13, 2021, 01:47:41 PM
What a cunt
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on August 13, 2021, 02:04:49 PM
So, here we are: August 13, the day Trump is supposed to return to the White House...

C'mon, you assholes, get back to cheering for your Orange Man because the Pillow Prophet can't be wrong, right?

I'm off to watch Free Guy, which is likely far too realistic for the ever-Trumpers to enjoy, but I hope we have some more idiotic rumblings from those idiots here that still feel the election will be overturned. Please, amuse me further.

I don't remember any of us claiming Trump would be back in office today.  I remember some of us questioning the validity of the election because we can actually do basic statistical analysis but I don't remember anything about this.  Link please.

I also don't understand this almost psychotic aversion to some ex-addict who started a pillow company...does he frighten you somehow?

...and how do you have time to go to a movie and post here if Covid is over-running Florida?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Reckall on August 13, 2021, 02:11:27 PM
So, here we are: August 13, the day Trump is supposed to return to the White House...

C'mon, you assholes, get back to cheering for your Orange Man because the Pillow Prophet can't be wrong, right?

Don't forget to bring your "Offical Card":

(https://static.independent.co.uk/2021/08/06/04/photojoiner_photo%20%2811%29.jpeg?width=982&height=726&auto=webp&quality=75)

I myself like more this one, exp. now that I'm playing Hearts of Iron III as Germany:

(https://cdn-newsandguts1.pressidium.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Screen-Shot-2021-08-05-at-9.49.07-AM.png)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on August 13, 2021, 02:45:37 PM
Even Conservatives condemn McCarthy these days.  Even though he was completely correct.

Meanwhile the people that bitch incessantly about McCarthy are now using the same methods he did.  If what happened then was wrong why is it okay now?

  Well, a lot of their condemnation relies on a very long, very determined propaganda campaign against him.   I have a feeling if the thing were all laid out, he would be condemned a whole hell of a lot less, and given the effect of allowing outright commies to influence institutions for so long now... some people may even feel he was justified and now vindicated.

   Socialist/marxist principles only have one principle, and that is winning.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on August 13, 2021, 03:17:03 PM
So, here we are: August 13, the day Trump is supposed to return to the White House...

C'mon, you assholes, get back to cheering for your Orange Man because the Pillow Prophet can't be wrong, right?

I'm off to watch Free Guy, which is likely far too realistic for the ever-Trumpers to enjoy, but I hope we have some more idiotic rumblings from those idiots here that still feel the election will be overturned. Please, amuse me further.

I don't remember any of us claiming Trump would be back in office today.  I remember some of us questioning the validity of the election because we can actually do basic statistical analysis but I don't remember anything about this.  Link please.

I also don't understand this almost psychotic aversion to some ex-addict who started a pillow company...does he frighten you somehow?

...and how do you have time to go to a movie and post here if Covid is over-running Florida?
Nurses have days off too.

As for the Pillow Prophet, he's a fun symbol of the post-election Trumpers' collective stupidity. Rudy was too, for a time, but he eventually stopped being (publicly) stupid. But Mikey just keeps on delivering.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 13, 2021, 03:41:49 PM
Meanwhile, Afghanistan implodes. Granted, there's plenty of blame to spread on the neocon side for that adventure, but watching Sleepy Joe call a 'lid' and go home for pudding and naps is... pretty disconcerting to say the least.

But then, this is what some of you worthless fucktards voted for, right? Mean ol' Trump made your fee-fees hurt, so by God you'd show him, and the rest of us, how to 'govern' -- by shitting up the country even worse.

Nice work.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on August 13, 2021, 05:03:16 PM
Meanwhile, Afghanistan implodes. Granted, there's plenty of blame to spread on the neocon side for that adventure, but watching Sleepy Joe call a 'lid' and go home for pudding and naps is... pretty disconcerting to say the least.

But then, this is what some of you worthless fucktards voted for, right? Mean ol' Trump made your fee-fees hurt, so by God you'd show him, and the rest of us, how to 'govern' -- by shitting up the country even worse.

Nice work.

Greetings!

*Laughing* So true, Ghostmaker! That's the monstrous thing about being brainwashed by the Liberal Marxist Democrats. All of these drooling morons come to believe that incompetence, corruption, and tyranny are all normal and good--as long as such is bubble-wrapped in feel-good SJW platitudes.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on August 13, 2021, 05:09:17 PM
Meanwhile, Afghanistan implodes. Granted, there's plenty of blame to spread on the neocon side for that adventure, but watching Sleepy Joe call a 'lid' and go home for pudding and naps is... pretty disconcerting to say the least.

But then, this is what some of you worthless fucktards voted for, right? Mean ol' Trump made your fee-fees hurt, so by God you'd show him, and the rest of us, how to 'govern' -- by shitting up the country even worse.

Nice work.

Greetings!

*Laughing* So true, Ghostmaker! That's the monstrous thing about being brainwashed by the Liberal Marxist Democrats. All of these drooling morons come to believe that incompetence, corruption, and tyranny are all normal and good--as long as such is bubble-wrapped in feel-good SJW platitudes.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
As opposed to folks like you that accept incompetence,  corruption, and tyranny so long as it's wrapped in orange skin?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Eirikrautha on August 13, 2021, 05:38:07 PM
Meanwhile, Afghanistan implodes. Granted, there's plenty of blame to spread on the neocon side for that adventure, but watching Sleepy Joe call a 'lid' and go home for pudding and naps is... pretty disconcerting to say the least.

But then, this is what some of you worthless fucktards voted for, right? Mean ol' Trump made your fee-fees hurt, so by God you'd show him, and the rest of us, how to 'govern' -- by shitting up the country even worse.

Nice work.

Greetings!

*Laughing* So true, Ghostmaker! That's the monstrous thing about being brainwashed by the Liberal Marxist Democrats. All of these drooling morons come to believe that incompetence, corruption, and tyranny are all normal and good--as long as such is bubble-wrapped in feel-good SJW platitudes.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
As opposed to folks like you that accept incompetence,  corruption, and tyranny so long as it's wrapped in orange skin?
How can anyone say this with a straight face?  The present guy is a drooling vegetable, has business people come forward to confirm that they bought access through Hunter (that 10% for the "big guy"), and is considering requiring proof of vaccination to cross state lines!  Is this one of those tactics where you try to accuse the other guy of doing what your guy is doing?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on August 13, 2021, 05:44:41 PM
So, here we are: August 13, the day Trump is supposed to return to the White House...

C'mon, you assholes, get back to cheering for your Orange Man because the Pillow Prophet can't be wrong, right?

I'm off to watch Free Guy, which is likely far too realistic for the ever-Trumpers to enjoy, but I hope we have some more idiotic rumblings from those idiots here that still feel the election will be overturned. Please, amuse me further.

What else did Q tell you?

Hospitals overrun on Tuesday?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on August 13, 2021, 05:49:12 PM
Meanwhile, Afghanistan implodes. Granted, there's plenty of blame to spread on the neocon side for that adventure, but watching Sleepy Joe call a 'lid' and go home for pudding and naps is... pretty disconcerting to say the least.

But then, this is what some of you worthless fucktards voted for, right? Mean ol' Trump made your fee-fees hurt, so by God you'd show him, and the rest of us, how to 'govern' -- by shitting up the country even worse.

Nice work.

Greetings!

*Laughing* So true, Ghostmaker! That's the monstrous thing about being brainwashed by the Liberal Marxist Democrats. All of these drooling morons come to believe that incompetence, corruption, and tyranny are all normal and good--as long as such is bubble-wrapped in feel-good SJW platitudes.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
As opposed to folks like you that accept incompetence,  corruption, and tyranny so long as it's wrapped in orange skin?
How can anyone say this with a straight face?  The present guy is a drooling vegetable, has business people come forward to confirm that they bought access through Hunter (that 10% for the "big guy"), and is considering requiring proof of vaccination to cross state lines!  Is this one of those tactics where you try to accuse the other guy of doing what your guy is doing?
The same stuff? Not exactly, as the specifics differ, but there was certainly incompetence, corruption, and tyranny to be seen in Trump's reign too.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on August 13, 2021, 05:49:31 PM
As opposed to folks like you that accept incompetence,  corruption, and tyranny so long as it's wrapped in orange skin?

And he was so incompetent at his tyranny that somehow the most fair election ever held in the US of A happened under his presidency.

Luckily you got Q to explain everything to you.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on August 13, 2021, 05:54:27 PM
So, here we are: August 13, the day Trump is supposed to return to the White House...

C'mon, you assholes, get back to cheering for your Orange Man because the Pillow Prophet can't be wrong, right?

I'm off to watch Free Guy, which is likely far too realistic for the ever-Trumpers to enjoy, but I hope we have some more idiotic rumblings from those idiots here that still feel the election will be overturned. Please, amuse me further.

What else did Q tell you?

Hospitals overrun on Tuesday?
Your use of sarcastic black is rather weak.

However, in this case you seem truly confused. Are you still trying to find a new voice for Q to speak through? Do you really need another nutter conspiracy whisperer? So sad for you. If you find one though, be sure to share more so I additional material to mock.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on August 13, 2021, 05:56:19 PM
As opposed to folks like you that accept incompetence,  corruption, and tyranny so long as it's wrapped in orange skin?

And he was so incompetent at his tyranny that somehow the most fair election ever held in the US of A happened under his presidency.

Luckily you got Q to explain everything to you.
I see you're lost to the nutter babble. So sad. But keep on trying. I have pity for you too.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Reckall on August 13, 2021, 06:06:53 PM
Even Conservatives condemn McCarthy these days.  Even though he was completely correct.

Meanwhile the people that bitch incessantly about McCarthy are now using the same methods he did.  If what happened then was wrong why is it okay now?

  Well, a lot of their condemnation relies on a very long, very determined propaganda campaign against him.   I have a feeling if the thing were all laid out, he would be condemned a whole hell of a lot less, and given the effect of allowing outright commies to influence institutions for so long now... some people may even feel he was justified and now vindicated.

   Socialist/marxist principles only have one principle, and that is winning.

Whereas McCarthy was aiming for a draw?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Reckall on August 13, 2021, 06:25:51 PM
Meanwhile, Afghanistan implodes.

I don't remember who said that "The true defeat for the US in Vietnam was not that at the end it was reunified under the North. It was that the World didn't became Communist afterwards".

That's true for Iraq 2003 too. As the caption of a single cartoon said when the US pulled out: "Mission accomplished... whatever it was."

And now we are seeing the end of a war started in 2001 with two aims: capture/kill Bin-laden and free Afghanistan from the Taliban's dictature. Twenty years later, Bin-laden wasn't even in Afghanistan and the Talibans are doing just fine.

Quote
But then, this is what some of you worthless fucktards voted for, right? Mean ol' Trump made your fee-fees hurt, so by God you'd show him, and the rest of us, how to 'govern' -- by shitting up the country even worse.

It was Trump that started the pull-out. Had he been re-elected, his deadline for the full pullout would have been May, 1st 2021.

He is anyway happy that the US policy didn't change:

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-biden-afghanistan-pullout-wonderful-and-positive-thing-to-do-2021-4?r=US&IR=T
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on August 13, 2021, 06:47:10 PM
So, here we are: August 13, the day Trump is supposed to return to the White House...

C'mon, you assholes, get back to cheering for your Orange Man because the Pillow Prophet can't be wrong, right?

I'm off to watch Free Guy, which is likely far too realistic for the ever-Trumpers to enjoy, but I hope we have some more idiotic rumblings from those idiots here that still feel the election will be overturned. Please, amuse me further.

What else did Q tell you?

Hospitals overrun on Tuesday?
Your use of sarcastic black is rather weak.

However, in this case you seem truly confused. Are you still trying to find a new voice for Q to speak through? Do you really need another nutter conspiracy whisperer? So sad for you. If you find one though, be sure to share more so I additional material to mock.

If you dont have your conspiracies then what do you have?  Just the constant dread of an invisible virus coming to strike you down.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on August 13, 2021, 07:22:10 PM
Even Conservatives condemn McCarthy these days.  Even though he was completely correct.

Meanwhile the people that bitch incessantly about McCarthy are now using the same methods he did.  If what happened then was wrong why is it okay now?

  Well, a lot of their condemnation relies on a very long, very determined propaganda campaign against him.   I have a feeling if the thing were all laid out, he would be condemned a whole hell of a lot less, and given the effect of allowing outright commies to influence institutions for so long now... some people may even feel he was justified and now vindicated.

   Socialist/marxist principles only have one principle, and that is winning.

Whereas McCarthy was aiming for a draw?

    Everyone tries to win, some actually try to have some rules.  Sooner or later, people will realize if you want to win, the rule book is optional, at best.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: consolcwby on August 13, 2021, 08:25:55 PM
So, here we are: August 13, the day Trump is supposed to return to the White House...

C'mon, you assholes, get back to cheering for your Orange Man because the Pillow Prophet can't be wrong, right?

I'm off to watch Free Guy, which is likely far too realistic for the ever-Trumpers to enjoy, but I hope we have some more idiotic rumblings from those idiots here that still feel the election will be overturned. Please, amuse me further.

What else did Q tell you?

Hospitals overrun on Tuesday?

I love this!!! BWA-HAHAHAH! I think I might start a prediction thread up, since it seems so many people miss x22!
(Besides, I've got some free time on my hands... Still working on mah stuffz, however. I really had lots of fun last winter!)
  ;D
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on August 13, 2021, 09:36:51 PM
emphasis mine...


And now we are seeing the end of a war started in 2001 with two aims: capture/kill Bin-laden and free Afghanistan from the Taliban's dictature. Twenty years later, Bin-laden wasn't even in Afghanistan and the Talibans are doing just fine.


ROFL!!!
If you bought that BS, it isn't any wonder you are following the narrative about Covid and economics...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: consolcwby on August 13, 2021, 10:41:19 PM
Oh, lookie here: https://news.yahoo.com/biden-sending-troops-afghanistan-help-200437300.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAC_EF7-Dns4e_CFLlKXn0lNUTZEdGbJNzvlDZOt4v3KGXngIMt-_dPiH6eqKtf7h2Upv63H2h9czMQg32bonY31N004ZTZYHkF_gHUeC1ieA56Iudx1NcoYqMv0-SLPSMPXubrNlU2B_W3GzwO8_8t1XRiqu9XdMHAFskd009L5V

Another SAIGON! How quaint! Ol' Sniffer Joe shore likes the 1970's, don't he?
proof:  https://diplomacy.state.gov/u-s-diplomacy-stories/fall-of-saigon-1975-american-diplomats-refugees/

Gee, I'm getting nostalgic already! 46 Years ago, Aug. 13th Friday, the #1 song in the U.S. was:


HOW APPROPRIATE! KEEP ON TRUCKIN' JOE! KEEP ON TRUCKIN'!!!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on August 14, 2021, 02:03:46 AM
Meanwhile, Afghanistan implodes. Granted, there's plenty of blame to spread on the neocon side for that adventure, but watching Sleepy Joe call a 'lid' and go home for pudding and naps is... pretty disconcerting to say the least.
It was the weirdest thing. NPR always wave their partisan flag from the skies and shout it across the hills. If a Democrat is being questioned, it's softball question after softball question, they're given all the time in the world to respond, and they're allowed to control the flow of conversation. The tone is friendly and even enthusiastic. If it's a Republican, everything goes dark. The tone is nasty, statements are short and abrupt, and the interviewee is cut off constantly in mid-sentence and mid-thought. The conversation is always forced to what the interviewer wants to talk about, and they demand answers to questions that assume the person being interviewed is guilty, guilty, guilty.

Today, the Republican interview style was out in full force -- but they were talking to someone from the Biden administration. NPR finally crossed their partisan line, and they did it over Afghanistan. We're a partnership, it's Trump's fault because we would put soldiers at risk if we didn't hold to his May 1st deadline, the Afghans have 600,000 troops and our 2,500 didn't matter... the NPR interviewer was having none of it.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Reckall on August 14, 2021, 03:21:08 AM
emphasis mine...


And now we are seeing the end of a war started in 2001 with two aims: capture/kill Bin-laden and free Afghanistan from the Taliban's dictature. Twenty years later, Bin-laden wasn't even in Afghanistan and the Talibans are doing just fine.


ROFL!!!
If you bought that BS, it isn't any wonder you are following the narrative about Covid and economics...

Hey, I don't get to write US' propaganda!  :D But they should at least try not to fiasco even in that.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Eirikrautha on August 14, 2021, 08:32:08 AM
emphasis mine...


And now we are seeing the end of a war started in 2001 with two aims: capture/kill Bin-laden and free Afghanistan from the Taliban's dictature. Twenty years later, Bin-laden wasn't even in Afghanistan and the Talibans are doing just fine.


ROFL!!!
If you bought that BS, it isn't any wonder you are following the narrative about Covid and economics...

Hey, I don't get to write US' propaganda!  :D But they should at least try not to fiasco even in that.
Well, since you don't write it, you should try not believing it, too.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Reckall on August 14, 2021, 12:36:42 PM
emphasis mine...


And now we are seeing the end of a war started in 2001 with two aims: capture/kill Bin-laden and free Afghanistan from the Taliban's dictature. Twenty years later, Bin-laden wasn't even in Afghanistan and the Talibans are doing just fine.


ROFL!!!
If you bought that BS, it isn't any wonder you are following the narrative about Covid and economics...

Hey, I don't get to write US' propaganda!  :D But they should at least try not to fiasco even in that.
Well, since you don't write it, you should try not believing it, too.

That's beside the point. The Second Gulf of Tonkin incident, Bin-laden & Friends and "Ayeeee, Saddam is going to gas everybody in the next three hours!" If you launch a war with fake reasons at least try not to fuck-up those reasons. The US need bigger smokescreens.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on August 14, 2021, 12:44:39 PM
emphasis mine...


And now we are seeing the end of a war started in 2001 with two aims: capture/kill Bin-laden and free Afghanistan from the Taliban's dictature. Twenty years later, Bin-laden wasn't even in Afghanistan and the Talibans are doing just fine.


ROFL!!!
If you bought that BS, it isn't any wonder you are following the narrative about Covid and economics...

Hey, I don't get to write US' propaganda!  :D But they should at least try not to fiasco even in that.
Well, since you don't write it, you should try not believing it, too.

That's beside the point. The Second Gulf of Tonkin incident, Bin-laden & Friends and "Ayeeee, Saddam is going to gas everybody in the next three hours!" If you launch a war with fake reasons at least try not to fuck-up those reasons. The US need bigger smokescreens.

  Not really.  They can just leave most any nation in ruins anytime they want.  I do wonder when the people who fund that raging beast are going to understand the military DOES NOT operate in their best interests or their defense at all.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Reckall on August 15, 2021, 12:39:56 PM
emphasis mine...


And now we are seeing the end of a war started in 2001 with two aims: capture/kill Bin-laden and free Afghanistan from the Taliban's dictature. Twenty years later, Bin-laden wasn't even in Afghanistan and the Talibans are doing just fine.


ROFL!!!
If you bought that BS, it isn't any wonder you are following the narrative about Covid and economics...

Hey, I don't get to write US' propaganda!  :D But they should at least try not to fiasco even in that.
Well, since you don't write it, you should try not believing it, too.

That's beside the point. The Second Gulf of Tonkin incident, Bin-laden & Friends and "Ayeeee, Saddam is going to gas everybody in the next three hours!" If you launch a war with fake reasons at least try not to fuck-up those reasons. The US need bigger smokescreens.
Quote
  Not really.  They can just leave most any nation in ruins anytime they want.
And? The Taliban will rebuild it in their shape and move on.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on August 15, 2021, 05:32:09 PM
emphasis mine...


And now we are seeing the end of a war started in 2001 with two aims: capture/kill Bin-laden and free Afghanistan from the Taliban's dictature. Twenty years later, Bin-laden wasn't even in Afghanistan and the Talibans are doing just fine.


ROFL!!!
If you bought that BS, it isn't any wonder you are following the narrative about Covid and economics...

Hey, I don't get to write US' propaganda!  :D But they should at least try not to fiasco even in that.
Well, since you don't write it, you should try not believing it, too.

That's beside the point. The Second Gulf of Tonkin incident, Bin-laden & Friends and "Ayeeee, Saddam is going to gas everybody in the next three hours!" If you launch a war with fake reasons at least try not to fuck-up those reasons. The US need bigger smokescreens.
Quote
  Not really.  They can just leave most any nation in ruins anytime they want.
And? The Taliban will rebuild it in their shape and move on.

  The second part of what I wrote was relative, and makes the first part rhetorical.   You are simply saying what anyone who read what I wrote already knows.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 15, 2021, 06:28:07 PM

I'm not fond of the US involvement in the middle east, but this doesn't look like a pull out of Afghanistan as much as it looks like a rout.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Reckall on August 15, 2021, 07:23:51 PM
emphasis mine...


And now we are seeing the end of a war started in 2001 with two aims: capture/kill Bin-laden and free Afghanistan from the Taliban's dictature. Twenty years later, Bin-laden wasn't even in Afghanistan and the Talibans are doing just fine.


ROFL!!!
If you bought that BS, it isn't any wonder you are following the narrative about Covid and economics...

Hey, I don't get to write US' propaganda!  :D But they should at least try not to fiasco even in that.
Well, since you don't write it, you should try not believing it, too.

That's beside the point. The Second Gulf of Tonkin incident, Bin-laden & Friends and "Ayeeee, Saddam is going to gas everybody in the next three hours!" If you launch a war with fake reasons at least try not to fuck-up those reasons. The US need bigger smokescreens.
Quote
  Not really.  They can just leave most any nation in ruins anytime they want.
And? The Taliban will rebuild it in their shape and move on.

  The second part of what I wrote was relative, and makes the first part rhetorical.   You are simply saying what anyone who read what I wrote already knows.

Do they? For sure that part of the American (and Western) society who will come out deeply wounded from two of the most unneeded wars in history, yes, already knows. I'm not talking about the dead only, but about lost generations of young people forever scarred in the psyche and in the body. About trillions of dollars and Euro wasted. About hundreds of thousands of civilians either directly killed or dead as a consequence of the wars, only to be labelled "collateral casualties". About the innocents tortured in Guantanamo and black sites - because "principles" are useful only when you can boast about them, not when you need them. About a 300,000 men Afghan Army, paid, trained and armed by the West that just folded. About an enemy announcing - as I write this - "You know? We think that, after 20 years of struggle, we can declare the birth of 'The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, and that's pretty neat, uh?" (China is already agreeing, BTW).

So, does part of the society "knows"? Yes.

Will we climb down from our high horse? Well, technically we were thrown down from our high horse years ago, so the correct question should be "Will we stop stop and think before jumping again on it?" My personal opinion: no.

Will this be a lesson for the "Rah rah!" crowd? Never in the life. I don't know if Bin-laden is in our Hell or his Heaven, but I'm sure that, right now, he his happy with himself. He pulled off the biggest terrorist attack of all time on a shoestring budget; as an added bonus he saw his enemy openly ditch all his vaunted "principles" and turn himself into an elephant who damaged everyone and everything, including himself, in lies and wild chases. True, he was found and killed - but that comes with his line of work and Bin-laden knew that. The price paid by the West, meanwhile, is mindblowing.

Nothing is ever all bad, of course. I seldom browse Twitter but I'm doing it right now. It is pretty refreshing to see people who, with their immense horror, are realising that you can't "cancel" the #Taliban! The tectonic shift that the mind of the Twitterati is experiencing is unprecedented. I'm not worried, toh: they will recover.

Afghanistan and Iraq were two "Delta Green" scenario played and lost by the West. And not against Cthulhu but an enemy whose main strengths were IEDs and caves in mountains. And not having Twitter.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on August 15, 2021, 07:29:05 PM
Who knows, maybe the power vacuum will convince China to have a go at Afghanistan.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on August 15, 2021, 07:52:44 PM
The former Canadian Ambassador to Afghanistan is saying this isn't a Taliban takeover, it's an invasion from Pakistan. They planned it, ordered it, and it's being going on for years. No idea if it's true.

(Jump to about 3:50 for the part about Pakistan)
https://www.npr.org/2021/08/15/1027952027/canadas-former-ambassador-to-afghanistan-on-efforts-protect-kabuls-vulnerable
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Reckall on August 15, 2021, 08:01:59 PM
Who knows, maybe the power vacuum will convince China to have a go at Afghanistan.

It is already happening and it shouldn't be a surprise.

China doesn't need to "invade". All they need is some friendly contact: "Yo! Nice to see you back in the saddle! Need a hand during the reconstruction period?"

There were rumbles that China was first in line ready to recognise the Taliban regime as back as early August. I guess we will have an answer shortly.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Zelen on August 15, 2021, 08:14:21 PM
Will this be a lesson for the "Rah rah!" crowd? Never in the life.

As someone who was definitely pro-intervention in the wake of the 2001 aftermath, I think your understanding of the situation is shallow at best. Almost all people in favor of intervention in Afghanistan in 2001 are now against it.

In the past 20 years there's been a big disconnect between "the ruling class" and "the people." Overwhelmingly the people correctly see the ruling class [correctly] as corrupt & illegitimate. Afghanistan will further prove this, with 20 years, thousands of lives, and trillions of dollars spent to achieve absolutely nothing except enriching the military, corporations, and politicians.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on August 16, 2021, 03:57:48 AM
emphasis mine...


And now we are seeing the end of a war started in 2001 with two aims: capture/kill Bin-laden and free Afghanistan from the Taliban's dictature. Twenty years later, Bin-laden wasn't even in Afghanistan and the Talibans are doing just fine.


ROFL!!!
If you bought that BS, it isn't any wonder you are following the narrative about Covid and economics...

Hey, I don't get to write US' propaganda!  :D But they should at least try not to fiasco even in that.
Well, since you don't write it, you should try not believing it, too.

That's beside the point. The Second Gulf of Tonkin incident, Bin-laden & Friends and "Ayeeee, Saddam is going to gas everybody in the next three hours!" If you launch a war with fake reasons at least try not to fuck-up those reasons. The US need bigger smokescreens.
Quote
  Not really.  They can just leave most any nation in ruins anytime they want.
And? The Taliban will rebuild it in their shape and move on.

  The second part of what I wrote was relative, and makes the first part rhetorical.   You are simply saying what anyone who read what I wrote already knows.

Do they? For sure that part of the American (and Western) society who will come out deeply wounded from two of the most unneeded wars in history, yes, already knows. I'm not talking about the dead only, but about lost generations of young people forever scarred in the psyche and in the body. About trillions of dollars and Euro wasted. About hundreds of thousands of civilians either directly killed or dead as a consequence of the wars, only to be labelled "collateral casualties". About the innocents tortured in Guantanamo and black sites - because "principles" are useful only when you can boast about them, not when you need them. About a 300,000 men Afghan Army, paid, trained and armed by the West that just folded. About an enemy announcing - as I write this - "You know? We think that, after 20 years of struggle, we can declare the birth of 'The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, and that's pretty neat, uh?" (China is already agreeing, BTW).

So, does part of the society "knows"? Yes.

Will we climb down from our high horse? Well, technically we were thrown down from our high horse years ago, so the correct question should be "Will we stop stop and think before jumping again on it?" My personal opinion: no.

Will this be a lesson for the "Rah rah!" crowd? Never in the life. I don't know if Bin-laden is in our Hell or his Heaven, but I'm sure that, right now, he his happy with himself. He pulled off the biggest terrorist attack of all time on a shoestring budget; as an added bonus he saw his enemy openly ditch all his vaunted "principles" and turn himself into an elephant who damaged everyone and everything, including himself, in lies and wild chases. True, he was found and killed - but that comes with his line of work and Bin-laden knew that. The price paid by the West, meanwhile, is mindblowing.

Nothing is ever all bad, of course. I seldom browse Twitter but I'm doing it right now. It is pretty refreshing to see people who, with their immense horror, are realising that you can't "cancel" the #Taliban! The tectonic shift that the mind of the Twitterati is experiencing is unprecedented. I'm not worried, toh: they will recover.

Afghanistan and Iraq were two "Delta Green" scenario played and lost by the West. And not against Cthulhu but an enemy whose main strengths were IEDs and caves in mountains. And not having Twitter.

  he is likely in hell, but in Islam, hell has parole, so either way he wont be there forever.  I am not so sure the USA sent him there however.  You are looking at the thing from the perspective of a win/lose in the classical sense.  I assure you, the sociopaths who ran that whole load of shit won, and won big.   They all got much richer and expanded their influence and the officers/"leaders" gained experience in what amounted to live sparring for them.  Sure the Western Civilization as a unit "lost", but the people who control the monster known as the US Military do not give two shits about "Western Civilization".   I get what you are saying, and I was saying everything you point out in 2001.  But it does not matter, the military industrial complex created the Taliban(and they created it a loooong time ago),  they created ISIS.  They left nations in ruins and millions of people died, but the people who matter, the real government of the USA wanted it to happen, so it happened.  That is is just how it is.  Short of massive civil war/split in the USA there are not going to be any changes down the road.  The USA loves to export "democracy and freedom"...from 30k feet up. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on August 16, 2021, 04:01:45 AM
  The other part of the whole thing that I find grimly amusing, is folks like Joe Biden rant on and on about how an "assault rifle" is useless for fighting a tyrannical government (the USA) as you need Nukes.   I think he should make sure to tell the dudes hiding in the hills of afghanistan with flip flops and 30 year old rifles that.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on August 16, 2021, 05:29:16 AM
  The other part of the whole thing that I find grimly amusing, is folks like Joe Biden rant on and on about how an "assault rifle" is useless for fighting a tyrannical government (the USA) as you need Nukes.   I think he should make sure to tell the dudes hiding in the hills of afghanistan with flip flops and 30 year old rifles that.
Do you really want to draw comparisons like that between gun-owning Americans and the Taliban?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on August 16, 2021, 06:27:58 AM
  The other part of the whole thing that I find grimly amusing, is folks like Joe Biden rant on and on about how an "assault rifle" is useless for fighting a tyrannical government (the USA) as you need Nukes.   I think he should make sure to tell the dudes hiding in the hills of afghanistan with flip flops and 30 year old rifles that.
Do you really want to draw comparisons like that between gun-owning Americans and the Taliban?

  The only comparison that would matter is people willing to fight, and who can hide, do not need nukes.  Or are you drawing some other comparison?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on August 16, 2021, 06:32:47 AM
  The other part of the whole thing that I find grimly amusing, is folks like Joe Biden rant on and on about how an "assault rifle" is useless for fighting a tyrannical government (the USA) as you need Nukes.   I think he should make sure to tell the dudes hiding in the hills of afghanistan with flip flops and 30 year old rifles that.
Do you really want to draw comparisons like that between gun-owning Americans and the Taliban?

  The only comparison that would matter is people willing to fight, and who can hide, do not need nukes.  Or are you drawing some other comparison?
One does not compare their group to the SS to call attention to their snappy dress uniforms alone. Likewise, one should not compare themselves to the Taliban and expect that comparison to be limited to one choice aspect.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on August 16, 2021, 06:43:12 AM
  The other part of the whole thing that I find grimly amusing, is folks like Joe Biden rant on and on about how an "assault rifle" is useless for fighting a tyrannical government (the USA) as you need Nukes.   I think he should make sure to tell the dudes hiding in the hills of afghanistan with flip flops and 30 year old rifles that.
Do you really want to draw comparisons like that between gun-owning Americans and the Taliban?

  The only comparison that would matter is people willing to fight, and who can hide, do not need nukes.  Or are you drawing some other comparison?
One does not compare their group to the SS to call attention to their snappy dress uniforms alone. Likewise, one should not compare themselves to the Taliban and expect that comparison to be limited to one choice aspect.

  Compare themselves?  I am not comparing myself.   You feeling OK?  Or are you reading too much into a casual observation any outsider with common sense could make?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on August 16, 2021, 06:47:11 AM
  The other part of the whole thing that I find grimly amusing, is folks like Joe Biden rant on and on about how an "assault rifle" is useless for fighting a tyrannical government (the USA) as you need Nukes.   I think he should make sure to tell the dudes hiding in the hills of afghanistan with flip flops and 30 year old rifles that.
Do you really want to draw comparisons like that between gun-owning Americans and the Taliban?

  The only comparison that would matter is people willing to fight, and who can hide, do not need nukes.  Or are you drawing some other comparison?
One does not compare their group to the SS to call attention to their snappy dress uniforms alone. Likewise, one should not compare themselves to the Taliban and expect that comparison to be limited to one choice aspect.

  Compare themselves?  I am not comparing myself.   You feeling OK?  Or are you reading too much into a casual observation any outsider with common sense could make?
That Americans with "assault" styled weapons are terrorists is waiting?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on August 16, 2021, 06:54:34 AM
  The other part of the whole thing that I find grimly amusing, is folks like Joe Biden rant on and on about how an "assault rifle" is useless for fighting a tyrannical government (the USA) as you need Nukes.   I think he should make sure to tell the dudes hiding in the hills of afghanistan with flip flops and 30 year old rifles that.
Do you really want to draw comparisons like that between gun-owning Americans and the Taliban?

  The only comparison that would matter is people willing to fight, and who can hide, do not need nukes.  Or are you drawing some other comparison?
One does not compare their group to the SS to call attention to their snappy dress uniforms alone. Likewise, one should not compare themselves to the Taliban and expect that comparison to be limited to one choice aspect.

  Compare themselves?  I am not comparing myself.   You feeling OK?  Or are you reading too much into a casual observation any outsider with common sense could make?
That Americans with "assault" styled weapons are terrorists is waiting?

    I suspect lots of people in Iraq and Afghanistan just might feel people wearing a US military uniform are pretty terrifying themselves.  Perspective and degree, and who wins usually decide who is a rebel or a terrorist or an insurgent, or just simply a soldier. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on August 16, 2021, 06:55:57 AM
 As to the "assault" weapons, I do not know what that means.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 16, 2021, 09:40:13 AM
Afghanis clinging to a C-17 as it takes off, and falling to their deaths:

https://twitter.com/airlivenet/status/1427207485144895490

And on top of this, the Taliban now have a goddamn banquet of U.S. military armaments. Tanks. Helicopters. Guns. Rockets. Drones. ALL the fuckin' toys.

No, you can't lay this on Trump. Yes, he committed to leave. On May 1st. But oh no, we can't give him even ONE point in the win column. So the dipshit Bidenharris administration pushes back the departure date and the Taliban goes ballistic. Cue surprised Pikachu face. And, of course, because we don't have ANYONE in charge, no one was ready and it's a mad scramble to the exit.

(I'm not even going to get into the State Department and Pentagon deliberately lying to him about troop departures in Syria. It wouldn't surprise me if those fuckers were doing the same in Afghanistan.)

But hey, no more mean tweets, right?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Wntrlnd on August 16, 2021, 09:53:59 AM
As to the "assault" weapons, I do not know what that means.

Duh, it's obviously the opposite of "defense" weapons, of course.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Reckall on August 16, 2021, 10:33:40 AM
You are looking at the thing from the perspective of a win/lose in the classical sense.  I assure you, the sociopaths who ran that whole load of shit won, and won big.

I basically agree with what you wrote, so I'll consider this as a key point.

IIRC, it was Eisenhower who warned against "the industrial military complex" in a famous speech. Such a complex, however, can't exist in a vacuum. People have to support it. Vietnam ended the draft so the US Army Forces (and, today, basically every Western Army) are mostly composed by volunteers.

So I think "Look at Iraq. Look at Afghanistan (even before this latest fiasco). Then tell me: why are you still volunteering?" This is a honest question, not a provocation. I understand that for some people in the lower income groups this is a way to get a job and an education, but not only the poors are enlisting. What is the reason for the others?

Sure the Western Civilization as a unit "lost", but the people who control the monster known as the US Military do not give two shits about "Western Civilization".

I guess so. But I also guess that it is the "Western Civilization" itself who should give two shits. The US (and the UK, and even Italy) lied and ended up in a quagmire in Iraq. The US could, after 9/11, at least offer a rationale for a war in Afghanistan (over here the support for that war was an unprecedented 92%) - but not for a never ending war. After three-four years the gig was up. Twenty years? That was sheer masochism. All of this happened in full view. If someone enlisted (not out of need) while all of this was going on, what policy were they supporting, exactly?

Sure, many ex-soldiers and many families are now crying for the never-ending pain that a single bullet or mortar round brought in their lives. I hope that, from pain, learning will emerge. What about the rest, however?

As of now, "Woke" culture is trickling down into the US Army too; just look at how cringe the recent "US Army Ads" are (in contrast, the Russian one made me grow a third ball by just watching it). This will clash with the "Rah! Rah!" culture brought by the spawn of those who think that waving a gun means liberty and superiority. Those looking for "safe spaces" and denouncing "micro aggressions" in the Army will be hazed fast. Send out angry tweets about it and you will end up cleaning bathrooms with a toothbrush. I have no problems with this.

But this also means that there will be an ongoing internal cultural strife across most of Western armies in a moment where the most urgent issue should instead be "Wait. Stop. How we arrived to this situation?

I'm not for "pacifism". But, for chrissake, before enlisting, think! Think about who you, literally, "are going to serve". Whose interests are we really serving? Remember, the "sociopaths who run this whole load of shit" need cannon fodder as a fuel. No cannon fodder, no fuel.

And, regarding this, I'm a pessimist. This crucial question will be shouted over by finger pointing, "lessons learned" (never, really, but that's the term) and a "chest vs. chest" attitude now towards Russia and China - because a lot of people just need a enemy and someone to show how big their dick is, thinking be damned. And the military industrial complex will emit a sigh of relief and move on.

Do you really want to draw comparisons like that between gun-owning Americans and the Taliban?

Why not? Both of them use those guns to shoot other Americans.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on August 16, 2021, 10:51:28 AM
You are looking at the thing from the perspective of a win/lose in the classical sense.  I assure you, the sociopaths who ran that whole load of shit won, and won big.

I basically agree with what you wrote, so I'll consider this as a key point.

IIRC, it was Eisenhower who warned against "the industrial military complex" in a famous speech. Such a complex, however, can't exist in a vacuum. People have to support it. Vietnam ended the draft so the US Army Forces (and, today, basically every Western Army) are mostly composed by volunteers.

So I think "Look at Iraq. Look at Afghanistan (even before this latest fiasco). Then tell me: why are you still volunteering?" This is a honest question, not a provocation. I understand that for some people in the lower income groups this is a way to get a job and an education, but not only the poors are enlisting. What is the reason for the others?

Sure the Western Civilization as a unit "lost", but the people who control the monster known as the US Military do not give two shits about "Western Civilization".

I guess so. But I also guess that it is the "Western Civilization" itself who should give two shits. The US (and the UK, and even Italy) lied and ended up in a quagmire in Iraq. The US could, after 9/11, at least offer a rationale for a war in Afghanistan (over here the support for that war was an unprecedented 92%) - but not for a never ending war. After three-four years the gig was up. Twenty years? That was sheer masochism. All of this happened in full view. If someone enlisted (not out of need) while all of this was going on, what policy were they supporting, exactly?

Sure, many ex-soldiers and many families are now crying for the never-ending pain that a single bullet or mortar round brought in their lives. I hope that, from pain, learning will emerge. What about the rest, however?

As of now, "Woke" culture is trickling down into the US Army too; just look at how cringe the recent "US Army Ads" are (in contrast, the Russian one made me grow a third ball by just watching it). This will clash with the "Rah! Rah!" culture brought by the spawn of those who think that waving a gun means liberty and superiority. Those looking for "safe spaces" and denouncing "micro aggressions" in the Army will be hazed fast. Send out angry tweets about it and you will end up cleaning bathrooms with a toothbrush. I have no problems with this.

But this also means that there will be an ongoing internal cultural strife across most of Western armies in a moment where the most urgent issue should instead be "Wait. Stop. How we arrived to this situation?

I'm not for "pacifism". But, for chrissake, before enlisting, think! Think about who you, literally, "are going to serve". Whose interests are we really serving? Remember, the "sociopaths who run this whole load of shit" need cannon fodder as a fuel. No cannon fodder, no fuel.

And, regarding this, I'm a pessimist. This crucial question will be shouted over by finger pointing, "lessons learned" (never, really, but that's the term) and a "chest vs. chest" attitude now towards Russia and China - because a lot of people just need a enemy and someone to show how big their dick is, thinking be damned. And the military industrial complex will emit a sigh of relief and move on.

Do you really want to draw comparisons like that between gun-owning Americans and the Taliban?

Why not? Both of them use those guns to shoot other Americans.

    I can only move forward, and my part is making sure my kids never serve in the US military.   But if you think that the machine that is the US military industrial complex will be short of meat for the beast....well I think you know the propaganda is still extremely strong.    Best I can do is move, and expatriate and not pay taxes to the machine (but reality is the machine will run on debt anyway, taxes are a farce as are US budgets) which I am working towards every day.

   As for being run out or hazed to correction in the army for being "woke", I am not so sure.  I can not say though. I can say I really do not care.

  regarding the use of guns on other Americans, you are likely correct that there are Americans who want to use firearms on one another, just one side is carrying them, and the other side prefers to point at the people they want shot, because they do not believe in owning guns, just pointing the authorities with guns at the people they do not like.  It is also another reason I do not care to stay.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on August 16, 2021, 10:59:01 AM
The US (and the UK, and even Italy) lied and ended up in a quagmire in Iraq. The US could, after 9/11, at least offer a rationale for a war in Afghanistan (over here the support for that war was an unprecedented 92%) - but not for a never ending war. After three-four years the gig was up. Twenty years? That was sheer masochism. All of this happened in full view. If someone enlisted (not out of need) while all of this was going on, what policy were they supporting, exactly?
You're assuming they're making decisions based on an impartial assessment of recent events. People don't make decisions based on that. The US has a long tradition of civic pride and honoring military service. That's why people joined. This may eventually change, but it's a long, slow process with lots of inertia.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on August 16, 2021, 04:49:26 PM
That Americans with "assault" styled weapons are terrorists is waiting?

HappyDaze we do not refer to legitimate Governments that can sign the Paris accords as "terrorists"

We only refer to peaceful citizens exercising their legitimate rights of protest as "terrorists"
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Reckall on August 16, 2021, 08:20:17 PM
Well, we now know the first four countries who are starting to support the new Taliban regime: Russia, China, Iran and... (cough) Pakistan. They all look very happy. Good for them :)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on August 16, 2021, 09:32:02 PM
  I am guessing we might get a chance to see how the Taliban and gun toting 'Mericans compare directly when a shitload of them hide among all the 10 year old boy rapists and abject cowards we accept as refugees.  I figure maybe half a percent of the 200k Joe tries to take to the USA as refugees will likely be outright Jihadis.  Good times ahead.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 23, 2021, 01:28:06 AM
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-fbi-finds-scant-evidence-us-capitol-attack-was-coordinated-sources-2021-08-20/

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 23, 2021, 08:07:26 AM
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-fbi-finds-scant-evidence-us-capitol-attack-was-coordinated-sources-2021-08-20/
LOL, you beat me to it.

So much for plots. So much for 'insurrection'. So much for 'ermahgerd white superemacy!'.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 23, 2021, 05:59:17 PM
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-fbi-finds-scant-evidence-us-capitol-attack-was-coordinated-sources-2021-08-20/
LOL, you beat me to it.

So much for plots. So much for 'insurrection'. So much for 'ermahgerd white superemacy!'.

God I wish. The Dems seem to have pinned a lot of their hopes on "proving" that Trump tried to engineer a coup on 1/6. I don't think they're going to give up on that narrative anytime soon.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 23, 2021, 06:38:42 PM
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-fbi-finds-scant-evidence-us-capitol-attack-was-coordinated-sources-2021-08-20/
LOL, you beat me to it.

So much for plots. So much for 'insurrection'. So much for 'ermahgerd white superemacy!'.

God I wish. The Dems seem to have pinned a lot of their hopes on "proving" that Trump tried to engineer a coup on 1/6. I don't think they're going to give up on that narrative anytime soon.
They're certainly doing their best to encourage the next 'insurrection' to show up with guns and blood on their mind, I gotta say.

But then, they are stupid, unserious people, who do not grasp consequences.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Elfdart on August 25, 2021, 11:00:23 AM
They're certainly doing their best to encourage the next 'insurrection' to show up with guns and blood on their mind, I gotta say.

But then, they are stupid, unserious people, who do not grasp consequences.

You wish, big boy.  ::)

Anyway, if your reaction to Congress doing its job by investigating a putsch is to take up arms (or to whack off to the idea of an armed coup) then congratulations, you're a fascist.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 25, 2021, 01:06:40 PM
They're certainly doing their best to encourage the next 'insurrection' to show up with guns and blood on their mind, I gotta say.

But then, they are stupid, unserious people, who do not grasp consequences.

You wish, big boy.  ::)

Anyway, if your reaction to Congress doing its job by investigating a putsch is to take up arms (or to whack off to the idea of an armed coup) then congratulations, you're a fascist.
Don't you have some narratives to prop up regarding your failing Pederast In Chief, bunky?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: deadDMwalking on August 25, 2021, 04:48:49 PM
Today is day 218 of the Biden Presidency.  His approval rating is down about 5% from his inauguration.  His approval rating is also 10% higher than Trump's at this time. 

Biden's popularity remains higher than Trump at any point in his presidency.   
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on August 25, 2021, 05:49:55 PM
Biden's popularity remains higher than Trump at any point in his presidency.

He did get more "votes" then any other Presidential candidate in history.

So I assume his popularity is pretty high.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: deadDMwalking on August 25, 2021, 07:17:46 PM
I don't know why there are people that would expect Trump to have received more popular votes. 

He didn't when he won.  And he was running against Hillary Clinton. 

And if a Democratic conspiracy allowed for the upset of Georgia (Republican controlled government, including Secretary of State overseeing elections) and Arizona (Republican controlled government, including Secretary of State overseeing elections), Trump would be the worst politician the world has ever seen. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on August 25, 2021, 08:27:39 PM
Thats true. Hillary Clinton is probably the worst person ever to run for President and that is including the pedophiles.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on August 25, 2021, 09:09:31 PM
I don't know why there are people that would expect Trump to have received more popular votes. 

He didn't when he won.  And he was running against Hillary Clinton. 

And if a Democratic conspiracy allowed for the upset of Georgia (Republican controlled government, including Secretary of State overseeing elections) and Arizona (Republican controlled government, including Secretary of State overseeing elections), Trump would be the worst politician the world has ever seen.

Yeah, because the entrenched Republicans showed sooooo much support for Trump.....  ::)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 26, 2021, 12:46:28 AM
I don't know why there are people that would expect Trump to have received more popular votes. 

He didn't when he won.  And he was running against Hillary Clinton. 

And if a Democratic conspiracy allowed for the upset of Georgia (Republican controlled government, including Secretary of State overseeing elections) and Arizona (Republican controlled government, including Secretary of State overseeing elections), Trump would be the worst politician the world has ever seen.

Yeah, because the entrenched Republicans showed sooooo much support for Trump.....  ::)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Republicans_who_opposed_the_Donald_Trump_2020_presidential_campaign

Never forget, both parties decide between themselves who the candidates are going to be, and therefore control your choices for who you are allowed to vote for.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on August 26, 2021, 07:40:24 AM
 LOL at down 5%.   Are people smoking crack?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 26, 2021, 09:07:20 AM
https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-police-lieutenant-who-killed-january-6-capitol-rioter-ashli-babbitt-finally-identified-1623166
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: deadDMwalking on August 26, 2021, 09:39:16 AM
LOL at down 5%.   Are people smoking crack?

Five Thirty Eight Presidential Approval Tracker (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-approval-rating/?cid=rrpromo)

Approval rating at inauguration: 53.0%. 

Current approval rating: 47.5%. 

Difference 5.5%. 

Or are you talking about NET approval rating (Approval - Disapproval)?   
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on September 18, 2021, 02:48:38 PM
So how's this weekend's rally going?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 18, 2021, 04:24:38 PM
Looks like the glowies are busy detaining each other.

https://twitter.com/FordFischer/status/1439312268701863939
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on September 18, 2021, 05:33:18 PM
So how's this weekend's rally going?

  LOL is that what people are calling it?   I figured it was a fed convention.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on September 18, 2021, 06:48:32 PM
Looks like the glowies are busy detaining each other.

https://twitter.com/FordFischer/status/1439312268701863939

I hate those blue on blue scenarios.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: lordmalachdrim on September 19, 2021, 07:34:49 AM
So how's this weekend's rally going?

From what little cover I've seen on the news it looks like it's mostly Feds and Leftists.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on September 22, 2021, 06:30:15 PM
LOL at down 5%.   Are people smoking crack?

Five Thirty Eight Presidential Approval Tracker (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-approval-rating/?cid=rrpromo)

Approval rating at inauguration: 53.0%. 

Current approval rating: 47.5%. 

Difference 5.5%. 

Or are you talking about NET approval rating (Approval - Disapproval)?

https://news.gallup.com/poll/354872/biden-approval-rating-hits-new-low-harris.aspx

Biden's Approval Rating Hits New Low of 43%; Harris' Is 49%

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Eight months after President Joe Biden's inauguration, his job approval rating has fallen six percentage points to 43%, the lowest of his presidency. For the first time, a majority, 53%, now disapproves of Biden's performance.

These findings are from a Sept. 1-17 Gallup poll that was conducted after the U.S. military evacuated more than 120,000 people from Afghanistan. The United States' exit from the nation's longest war was marred by the Taliban's quick takeover of most of the country and a suicide bombing at the airport in Kabul, which killed 13 U.S. service members. Over the same period, COVID-19 infection rates, nationally, were surging, leading to hospital overflows in some regions.

(https://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/64_fgqlqcekuxlq2sh3ssw.png)

The latest drop in Biden's job approval score is the second significant decline since June. Biden's honeymoon ratings near 55% first faltered in July, falling to 50% amid rising COVID-19 cases caused largely by the delta variant. In Gallup's Aug. 2-17 poll, Biden's rating was essentially unchanged, at 49%.

Midway through the most recent poll's field period, as U.S. COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations and deaths continued to rise, Biden announced new directives to limit the spread of the disease, including vaccine requirements for private-sector businesses, healthcare workers and federal government contractors.

Except for Donald Trump, every U.S. president since Harry Truman has enjoyed a honeymoon period characterized by above-average approval ratings upon taking office. Biden's recent slides in approval put him in the company of Trump and Bill Clinton, whose ratings were at or below Biden's current 43% at some point in the first eight months of their presidencies. However, by September 1993, Clinton's approval ratings began to recover and averaged 50% that month. Thus, among elected presidents since World War II, only Trump has had a lower job approval rating than Biden does at a similar point in their presidencies.

Independents Show Greatest Decline in Approval of Biden
Democrats' approval of the job Biden is doing has remained high and not varied by more than eight points since he took office. Their highest rating of Biden was 98% in late January/early February, and their lowest is the current 90%. Republicans' ratings of Biden are similarly stable at the other extreme, ranging from 12% in February and July to 6% this month.

Independents have shown the greatest variation in their opinions of how Biden is doing. Biden's current 37% approval rating among independents is his lowest to date and 24 points below his personal high of 61%. Two-thirds of Biden's slide among independents since he took office has occurred in the past three months.

(https://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/1vqlxdjdheynbwddjw2f9g.png)

A look back at comparable September approval ratings of Biden's four predecessors shows that his 37% approval rating among independents today is greater than Trump's 31% but lower than Barack Obama's 46%, George W. Bush's 44% and Clinton's 43%.

Biden's 90% approval rating among Democrats is nearly the same as Obama's 86%, as well as Bush's 87% among Republicans. Trump's approval among Republicans was 80%, and Clinton's among Democrats was an even lower 75%.

[More at link]
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 23, 2021, 09:49:18 AM
Presented without comment.

(https://scontent.fphx1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/242275509_1870367083146338_5036599761053220497_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=IP6Qteo37eUAX9CSdVJ&_nc_ht=scontent.fphx1-1.fna&oh=63f4de5b051cf78ad9f6dc68a13e9b1d&oe=6171B019)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on September 23, 2021, 10:40:40 AM
  I know of some dudes who are literally off the rails out near lynchburg virgina.  I am certain their view have had the feds attempt to infiltrate, and I know Antifa has the leader's address for his hangout/compound.   They do not get infiltrated.  They seem to have married one percenter biker culture to a fight club culture to a pagan religious practice.  If you go there, you must fight, and you will get a complete and thorough background check, while in the deep mountain forests of virginia.  Feds to not bother trying, and antifa has never bothered to show up anywhere near where they ever are. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on September 23, 2021, 04:35:49 PM
  I know of some dudes who are literally off the rails out near lynchburg virgina.  I am certain their view have had the feds attempt to infiltrate, and I know Antifa has the leader's address for his hangout/compound.   They do not get infiltrated.  They seem to have married one percenter biker culture to a fight club culture to a pagan religious practice.  If you go there, you must fight, and you will get a complete and thorough background check, while in the deep mountain forests of virginia.  Feds to not bother trying, and antifa has never bothered to show up anywhere near where they ever are.

Is this written in English?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: oggsmash on September 23, 2021, 05:23:52 PM
  I know of some dudes who are literally off the rails out near lynchburg virgina.  I am certain their view have had the feds attempt to infiltrate, and I know Antifa has the leader's address for his hangout/compound.   They do not get infiltrated.  They seem to have married one percenter biker culture to a fight club culture to a pagan religious practice.  If you go there, you must fight, and you will get a complete and thorough background check, while in the deep mountain forests of virginia.  Feds to not bother trying, and antifa has never bothered to show up anywhere near where they ever are.

Is this written in English?

  Sorry about that was skidding in and back out.  Will sum up.
  Crazy dudes in mountains. 
   Crazy dudes think of them selves as one percenter bikers +
   Fight club...members? +
   Norse god worshippers
Feds would love to infiltrate.  Feds can not.  This is due to whacko by laws and rules in said crazy dude organization.
  Antifa loves to talk about doing things to them.  Antifa flees if there is even rumor of occupying same zip code.

  If these guys were a few goofballs sitting around a fire drinking beers, the feds would be three deep in there, as it always seems the only groups the feds can infiltrate are the ones who are talking a lot (or full blown retard) but doing nothing.   At least until the point a fed manages to talk them into doing something.
  I find it hilarious, that a group of guys who certainly the government finds dangerous (they are extremely anti government, but also say they have no interest in over throwing, just ruling their section of the fallen empire when the USA takes a dump), the government can make absolutely no head way in hanging a charge or instigating any of the more goofy members to do something.   
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on September 24, 2021, 09:59:16 AM
BwahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha (https://www.axios.com/arizona-recount-results-biden-won-4a5b7275-b638-4ff6-81c6-4fb9f754ddb2.html)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 24, 2021, 11:07:50 AM
BwahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha (https://www.axios.com/arizona-recount-results-biden-won-4a5b7275-b638-4ff6-81c6-4fb9f754ddb2.html)
If you only had a brain.

The draft report (assuming it's legit, because I wouldn't trust WaPo to tell me the weather) states that (quoted VERBATIM):
- None of the various systems related to elections had numbers that would balance and agree with each other. In some cases, these differences were significant.

- There appears to be many ballots cast from individuals who had moved prior to the election.

- Files were missing from the Election Management System (EMS) server.

- Ballot images on the EMS were corrupt or missing.

- Logs appeared to be intentionally rolled over, and all the data in the database related to the 2020 General Election had been fully cleared.

- On the ballot side, batches were not always clearly delineated, duplicated ballots were missing the required serial numbers, originals were duplicated more than once, and the Auditors were never provided Chain-of-Custody documentation for the ballots for the time-period prior to the ballot's movement into the Auditors' care. This all increased the complexity and difficulty in properly auditing the results, and added ambiguity into the final conclusions.

But then, none of this bothers you because all that matters is Orange Man Bad.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on September 24, 2021, 01:18:46 PM
BwahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha (https://www.axios.com/arizona-recount-results-biden-won-4a5b7275-b638-4ff6-81c6-4fb9f754ddb2.html)
If you only had a brain.

The draft report (assuming it's legit, because I wouldn't trust WaPo to tell me the weather) states that (quoted VERBATIM):
- None of the various systems related to elections had numbers that would balance and agree with each other. In some cases, these differences were significant.

I haven't read the report yet. What percentage are you calling significant? For example, I note from the summary that Biden's margin changed by +360 votes. However, that's a difference of less than 0.01% of the Maricopa County population.

In most elections, there is always an error rate of at least this percent - often higher. I've been aware of this ever since it was highlighted in the 2000 election.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 24, 2021, 01:41:05 PM
BwahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha (https://www.axios.com/arizona-recount-results-biden-won-4a5b7275-b638-4ff6-81c6-4fb9f754ddb2.html)
If you only had a brain.

The draft report (assuming it's legit, because I wouldn't trust WaPo to tell me the weather) states that (quoted VERBATIM):
- None of the various systems related to elections had numbers that would balance and agree with each other. In some cases, these differences were significant.

I haven't read the report yet. What percentage are you calling significant? For example, I note from the summary that Biden's margin changed by +360 votes. However, that's a difference of less than 0.01% of the Maricopa County population.

In most elections, there is always an error rate of at least this percent - often higher. I've been aware of this ever since it was highlighted in the 2000 election.
It should be noted, too, that the draft that WaPo is waving around like a retard is two weeks old.

I'll let you read the report, though.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Tubesock Army on September 24, 2021, 01:55:22 PM
Ocne again, the GOP has spent millions of dollars & months of time to give Biden even more votes

My sides
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on September 24, 2021, 02:36:23 PM
BwahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha (https://www.axios.com/arizona-recount-results-biden-won-4a5b7275-b638-4ff6-81c6-4fb9f754ddb2.html)
If you only had a brain.

The draft report (assuming it's legit, because I wouldn't trust WaPo to tell me the weather) states that (quoted VERBATIM):
- None of the various systems related to elections had numbers that would balance and agree with each other. In some cases, these differences were significant.

We all knew this. However if looking at two results which both show Biden won (and that's the case - NONE of the systems showed Trump won) it would be meaningful.

Quote
- There appears to be many ballots cast from individuals who had moved prior to the election.

But that's OK too with early voting or with people moving from one location in Arizona to another location in Arizona.

Quote
- Files were missing from the Election Management System (EMS) server.

Were they voter files? I've seen no evidence they were.

Quote
- Ballot images on the EMS were corrupt or missing.

Pretty normal for some to be corrupted or missing, that doesn't indicate a bad election either. We're dealing with human fairly inexpensive imaging computers performing workhorse duty. The question is if the corrupted and missing image files is outside the norm for those machines from other areas and I have seen zero evidence they are.

Quote
- Logs appeared to be intentionally rolled over, and all the data in the database related to the 2020 General Election had been fully cleared.

And that is a bullshit claim. Nobody from the report is claiming intent, that's just you making an argument and trying to pretend it's a fact.

Quote
- On the ballot side, batches were not always clearly delineated, duplicated ballots were missing the required serial numbers, originals were duplicated more than once, and the Auditors were never provided Chain-of-Custody documentation for the ballots for the time-period prior to the ballot's movement into the Auditors' care. This all increased the complexity and difficulty in properly auditing the results, and added ambiguity into the final conclusions.

All of which is, again, not alleged to be outside the norm for elections.

Quote
But then, none of this bothers you because all that matters is Orange Man Bad.

It doesn't bother me because it's just more "if the election didn't go perfect, though no election does, then ever flaw must be assumed to be missing Trump votes and therefore Trump won." Which is nonsense. The report isn't alleging or concluding that.  Even when you spin every question Trumps way (which is also nonsense - all elections have minor errors and they come out roughly 50-50 as to who those minor errors impact) Biden comes out the winner there.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: moonsweeper on September 24, 2021, 02:38:47 PM
BwahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha (https://www.axios.com/arizona-recount-results-biden-won-4a5b7275-b638-4ff6-81c6-4fb9f754ddb2.html)

BwahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha (https://www.axios.com/arizona-recount-results-biden-won-4a5b7275-b638-4ff6-81c6-4fb9f754ddb2.html)


If you only had a brain.

The draft report (assuming it's legit, because I wouldn't trust WaPo to tell me the weather) states that (quoted VERBATIM):
- None of the various systems related to elections had numbers that would balance and agree with each other. In some cases, these differences were significant.

I haven't read the report yet. What percentage are you calling significant? For example, I note from the summary that Biden's margin changed by +360 votes. However, that's a difference of less than 0.01% of the Maricopa County population.

In most elections, there is always an error rate of at least this percent - often higher. I've been aware of this ever since it was highlighted in the 2000 election.

 ::) ::) ::)

That number being used is the actual total ballot count and is the same as any typical 'recount' would give...I would expect a fucking hard science PhD and a fucking lawyer to actually be able to parse words and numbers better than that...but that doesn't fit the narrative does it.  ;)

It is the other numbers I am interested in...how many ballots seemed to be multiple voting by the same person, how many of the 'adjudicated' ballots actually have an original, etc...

Makes you wonder why they fought so hard to prevent an 'audit' and why they are still trying to stop other states...wouldn't you want Orange Man Bad followers to 'waste' their money?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on September 24, 2021, 02:45:45 PM
BwahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha (https://www.axios.com/arizona-recount-results-biden-won-4a5b7275-b638-4ff6-81c6-4fb9f754ddb2.html)

BwahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha (https://www.axios.com/arizona-recount-results-biden-won-4a5b7275-b638-4ff6-81c6-4fb9f754ddb2.html)


If you only had a brain.

The draft report (assuming it's legit, because I wouldn't trust WaPo to tell me the weather) states that (quoted VERBATIM):
- None of the various systems related to elections had numbers that would balance and agree with each other. In some cases, these differences were significant.

I haven't read the report yet. What percentage are you calling significant? For example, I note from the summary that Biden's margin changed by +360 votes. However, that's a difference of less than 0.01% of the Maricopa County population.

In most elections, there is always an error rate of at least this percent - often higher. I've been aware of this ever since it was highlighted in the 2000 election.

 ::) ::) ::)

That number being used is the actual total ballot count and is the same as any typical 'recount' would give...I would expect a fucking hard science PhD and a fucking lawyer to actually be able to parse words and numbers better than that...but that doesn't fit the narrative does it.  ;)

It is the other numbers I am interested in...how many ballots seemed to be multiple voting by the same person, how many of the 'adjudicated' ballots actually have an original, etc...

Makes you wonder why they fought so hard to prevent an 'audit' and why they are still trying to stop other states...wouldn't you want Orange Man Bad followers to 'waste' their money?

I think it's cute you took me writing "Bwahahahahaha" as saying something about my ability to parse a number
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: RPGPundit on September 24, 2021, 02:58:07 PM
BwahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha (https://www.axios.com/arizona-recount-results-biden-won-4a5b7275-b638-4ff6-81c6-4fb9f754ddb2.html)

Please do not post blind links. Consider this a warning.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on September 24, 2021, 03:27:45 PM
BwahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha (https://www.axios.com/arizona-recount-results-biden-won-4a5b7275-b638-4ff6-81c6-4fb9f754ddb2.html)

Please do not post blind links. Consider this a warning.

Roger that. Sorry about that, I should have stated what I was linking to.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Eirikrautha on September 24, 2021, 04:49:55 PM
BwahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha (https://www.axios.com/arizona-recount-results-biden-won-4a5b7275-b638-4ff6-81c6-4fb9f754ddb2.html)
From the "draft" report that was leaked:
(https://i.redd.it/dhv5ri6qdgp71.jpg)
What was the margin of victory in Arizona again?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on September 24, 2021, 04:55:38 PM
BwahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha (https://www.axios.com/arizona-recount-results-biden-won-4a5b7275-b638-4ff6-81c6-4fb9f754ddb2.html)
From the "draft" report that was leaked:
(https://i.redd.it/dhv5ri6qdgp71.jpg)
What was the margin of victory in Arizona again?

See how I linked to my source?

See how you didn't?

Yeah.

Seriously, you guys cannot rant about the reliability of mainstream media and then link to "rando anonymous dude on the Internet posted this graphic they made to Reddit!"
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Tubesock Army on September 24, 2021, 05:15:39 PM
BwahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha (https://www.axios.com/arizona-recount-results-biden-won-4a5b7275-b638-4ff6-81c6-4fb9f754ddb2.html)
From the "draft" report that was leaked:
(https://i.redd.it/dhv5ri6qdgp71.jpg)
What was the margin of victory in Arizona again?

Here is a link to Maricopa County's Twitter thread, shredding each one of Cyber Ninja's "findings" into confetti.

https://twitter.com/maricopacounty/status/1441470629538983945

(https://img.fae.ro/8268c8.jpeg)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on September 24, 2021, 05:35:23 PM
This is hilarious.  Even the Taliban can organise a more transparent election.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 24, 2021, 06:02:03 PM
You'd think Tubesnake would be less eager to claim Joe Biden is our president, considering the complete disarray we seem to be in almost ten months in.

But then, TDS is a hell of a drug.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on September 24, 2021, 07:53:49 PM
You'd think Tubesnake would be less eager to claim Joe Biden is our president, considering the complete disarray we seem to be in almost ten months in.

But then, TDS is a hell of a drug.
Claiming Joe Biden is president is TRUE. Claiming Joe Biden is a good president is FALSE. Claiming one does not mean one claims the other.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Eirikrautha on September 24, 2021, 08:36:01 PM
BwahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha (https://www.axios.com/arizona-recount-results-biden-won-4a5b7275-b638-4ff6-81c6-4fb9f754ddb2.html)
From the "draft" report that was leaked:
(https://i.redd.it/dhv5ri6qdgp71.jpg)
What was the margin of victory in Arizona again?

See how I linked to my source?

See how you didn't?

Yeah.

Seriously, you guys cannot rant about the reliability of mainstream media and then link to "rando anonymous dude on the Internet posted this graphic they made to Reddit!"
You linked to a story on Axios, and you claim "reliability" is your concern?  Where is your link to the leaked report, or are you just taking their word for what is in it?  You have no idea whether the page I linked is from the report... anymore than you have any idea if what Axios is reporting is true.  The fact that you can't see this just shows you are a complete buffoon.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Tubesock Army on September 24, 2021, 10:09:38 PM
You'd think Tubesnake would be less eager to claim Joe Biden is our president, considering the complete disarray we seem to be in almost ten months in.

But then, TDS is a hell of a drug.

Bro you're clinging to a false narrative like a drowning man clings to a life preserver. But, sure, I'm the deranged one.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on September 24, 2021, 10:29:12 PM
You'd think Tubesnake would be less eager to claim Joe Biden is our president, considering the complete disarray we seem to be in almost ten months in.

But then, TDS is a hell of a drug.

Bro you're clinging to a false narrative like a drowning man clings to a life preserver. But, sure, I'm the deranged one.

Two movies, one screen.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on September 24, 2021, 11:07:57 PM
BwahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha (https://www.axios.com/arizona-recount-results-biden-won-4a5b7275-b638-4ff6-81c6-4fb9f754ddb2.html)
From the "draft" report that was leaked:
(https://i.redd.it/dhv5ri6qdgp71.jpg)
What was the margin of victory in Arizona again?

See how I linked to my source?

See how you didn't?

Yeah.

Seriously, you guys cannot rant about the reliability of mainstream media and then link to "rando anonymous dude on the Internet posted this graphic they made to Reddit!"
You linked to a story on Axios, and you claim "reliability" is your concern?  Where is your link to the leaked report, or are you just taking their word for what is in it?  You have no idea whether the page I linked is from the report... anymore than you have any idea if what Axios is reporting is true.  The fact that you can't see this just shows you are a complete buffoon.

Yes, UNQUESTIONABLY a link to Axios is superior to anonymous dude on the Internet. I don't even imagine how you could argue different. At least you can check Axios for credibility, look up the author, look up their sources, email them to check something, see other responses to their article, etc... You cannot do any of that with anonymous rando on the Internet. So yeah, ANY source is better than no source.

Also it's not a "leaked" report. The fucking report is out dude. How are you behind? Go read it. The report is out. Today. This was the official report release date, which is why all the articles came out about the report today.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on September 24, 2021, 11:44:00 PM
Here's what I see. The news report linked below contains the leaked copy of the draft report. The final report is supposed to be released today, but I haven't seen a site where it can be downloaded yet.

Quote
“What has been found is both encouraging and alarming. On the positive side there were no substantial differences between the hand count of the ballots provided and the official canvass results for the county,” the draft states.

Pullen confirmed that the hand recount was “relatively close” to the official tally.

“Was there massive fraud or anything? It doesn’t look like it,” he added.

However, the draft report raises concerns about the county’s elections systems and record-keeping, and accuses Maricopa County officials of stonewalling their effort to perform “a complete audit.”

“Had Maricopa County chosen to cooperate with the audit, the majority of these obstacles would have easily been overcome,” the report states.

Source: https://kjzz.org/content/1719314/arizona-election-audit-confirms-bidens-win-maricopa-county-also-casts-doubts
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on September 24, 2021, 11:52:11 PM
I called this one correctly.  Its not surprising that counting fake ballets twice give you the same number of votes.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Tubesock Army on September 25, 2021, 12:29:33 AM
Here's what I see. The news report linked below contains the leaked copy of the draft report. The final report is supposed to be released today, but I haven't seen a site where it can be downloaded yet.

Quote
“What has been found is both encouraging and alarming. On the positive side there were no substantial differences between the hand count of the ballots provided and the official canvass results for the county,” the draft states.

Pullen confirmed that the hand recount was “relatively close” to the official tally.

“Was there massive fraud or anything? It doesn’t look like it,” he added.

However, the draft report raises concerns about the county’s elections systems and record-keeping, and accuses Maricopa County officials of stonewalling their effort to perform “a complete audit.”

“Had Maricopa County chosen to cooperate with the audit, the majority of these obstacles would have easily been overcome,” the report states.

Source: https://kjzz.org/content/1719314/arizona-election-audit-confirms-bidens-win-maricopa-county-also-casts-doubts

Translation: they're moving the goalposts now that they came up empty-handed. None of this is about voting integrity. It's about a pretext to enact restrictive voting laws, aimed at suppressing Democrat votes in general and minority votes in particular.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on September 25, 2021, 01:09:12 AM
I called this one correctly.  Its not surprising that counting fake ballets twice give you the same number of votes.

This Republican-run recount did not find them to be fake votes. There is no legit evidence of fake votes in Arizona.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on September 25, 2021, 01:14:18 AM
It's about a pretext to enact restrictive voting laws, aimed at suppressing Democrat votes in general and minority votes in particular.

Wrong thread, you want the Covid, the lockdowns etc for complaints regarding laws targeting minorities.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on September 25, 2021, 01:39:51 AM
This Republican-run recount did not find them to be fake votes. There is no legit evidence of fake votes in Arizona.

Well, that's a source of some disagreement. Randy Pullen who is the spokesperson for the recount team said “Was there massive fraud or anything? It doesn’t look like it.”

However, Trump has said that the audit did find massive fraud.

Quote
Massive fraud was found in the Arizona Forensic Audit, sometimes referred to as “Fraudit.” The numbers are Election Changing!
Source: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/news/news-wxnvnq2xcu766
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on September 25, 2021, 11:54:43 AM
This Republican-run recount did not find them to be fake votes. There is no legit evidence of fake votes in Arizona.

Well, that's a source of some disagreement. Randy Pullen who is the spokesperson for the recount team said “Was there massive fraud or anything? It doesn’t look like it.”

However, Trump has said that the audit did find massive fraud.

Quote
Massive fraud was found in the Arizona Forensic Audit, sometimes referred to as “Fraudit.” The numbers are Election Changing!
Source: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/news/news-wxnvnq2xcu766

But Trump didn't run it or even see the result of the report before anyone else. The people who ran the report, who are Republicans and from outside the state so not tainted by anything going on in the state, who were hand selected by the republican party in Arizona though, they agree Biden won in Arizona and that there were not fake votes.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 25, 2021, 11:56:07 AM
Interesting. Because some of the slides don't speak well of voting security. Like, AT ALL.

Including an image of a purported 'secure box' which should've been stamped 'verified and approved' over the arrow to the address box... except somehow the stamp was BEHIND the arrow? Yeah, that's not how it works.

Thousands of weird, questionable, or just plain nonconforming votes.

How much Trump lose Arizona by, again? 11k?

Twenty-three thousand alone show as voting when their residence was no longer in their polling place.

Hinky, to say the least.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Tubesock Army on September 25, 2021, 12:11:37 PM
Interesting. Because some of the slides don't speak well of voting security. Like, AT ALL.

Including an image of a purported 'secure box' which should've been stamped 'verified and approved' over the arrow to the address box... except somehow the stamp was BEHIND the arrow? Yeah, that's not how it works.

Thousands of weird, questionable, or just plain nonconforming votes.

How much Trump lose Arizona by, again? 11k?

Twenty-three thousand alone show as voting when their residence was no longer in their polling place.

Hinky, to say the least.

Maricopa County has debunked the Cyber Ninjas BS talking points. I'm starting to understand how so many of you rubes get conned into eating horse medicine.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 25, 2021, 12:14:26 PM
Alexa, cue Billy Mays, 'BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!'

Mind you, this is literally from the audit presentation.

Between 10/28/20 and 11/05/20, 865 directories and 85,673 election related files (scanned files, .dvd files, slog.txt files, etc) were deleted from the EMS system.

Between 11/01/20 and 03/16/21, 9,571 directors and 1,064,746 election related files were deleted from the EMS system.

Honest and transparent my entire ass.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 25, 2021, 12:14:59 PM
Interesting. Because some of the slides don't speak well of voting security. Like, AT ALL.

Including an image of a purported 'secure box' which should've been stamped 'verified and approved' over the arrow to the address box... except somehow the stamp was BEHIND the arrow? Yeah, that's not how it works.

Thousands of weird, questionable, or just plain nonconforming votes.

How much Trump lose Arizona by, again? 11k?

Twenty-three thousand alone show as voting when their residence was no longer in their polling place.

Hinky, to say the least.

Maricopa County has debunked the Cyber Ninjas BS talking points. I'm starting to understand how so many of you rubes get conned into eating horse medicine.
LOL, 'debunked'. While they were stiff-arming subpoenas and dodging inquries.

Boy, that ActBlue money must be good.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Tubesock Army on September 25, 2021, 12:22:48 PM
Alexa, cue Billy Mays, 'BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!'

Mind you, this is literally from the audit presentation.

Between 10/28/20 and 11/05/20, 865 directories and 85,673 election related files (scanned files, .dvd files, slog.txt files, etc) were deleted from the EMS system.

Between 11/01/20 and 03/16/21, 9,571 directors and 1,064,746 election related files were deleted from the EMS system.

Honest and transparent my entire ass.

There were backups of all of the accidentally deleted data. Swing and a miss.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on September 25, 2021, 12:24:37 PM
I 100% trust the government when they audit themselves and come to the conclusion they did nothing wrong.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: DM_Curt on September 25, 2021, 01:37:22 PM
I 100% trust the government when they audit themselves and come to the conclusion they did nothing wrong.
You'd better believe. Or else you're a Bad Person(tm) who should be Unpersoned.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Tubesock Army on September 25, 2021, 04:28:26 PM
This Republican-run recount did not find them to be fake votes. There is no legit evidence of fake votes in Arizona.

Well, that's a source of some disagreement. Randy Pullen who is the spokesperson for the recount team said “Was there massive fraud or anything? It doesn’t look like it.”

However, Trump has said that the audit did find massive fraud.

Quote
Massive fraud was found in the Arizona Forensic Audit, sometimes referred to as “Fraudit.” The numbers are Election Changing!
Source: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/news/news-wxnvnq2xcu766

Well, he's never lied to us before...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on September 25, 2021, 04:28:45 PM
I 100% trust the government when they audit themselves and come to the conclusion they did nothing wrong.

Not me. I only trust when the court rules that there was nothing wrong because that is the best place to determine if fraud happened or not.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 25, 2021, 06:02:52 PM
This Republican-run recount did not find them to be fake votes. There is no legit evidence of fake votes in Arizona.

Well, that's a source of some disagreement. Randy Pullen who is the spokesperson for the recount team said “Was there massive fraud or anything? It doesn’t look like it.”

However, Trump has said that the audit did find massive fraud.

Quote
Massive fraud was found in the Arizona Forensic Audit, sometimes referred to as “Fraudit.” The numbers are Election Changing!
Source: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/news/news-wxnvnq2xcu766

But Trump didn't run it or even see the result of the report before anyone else. The people who ran the report, who are Republicans and from outside the state so not tainted by anything going on in the state, who were hand selected by the republican party in Arizona though, they agree Biden won in Arizona and that there were not fake votes.

Have we forgotten that the Republican party had a vocal contingent that hated Trump?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on September 25, 2021, 07:53:57 PM
Have we forgotten that the Republican party had a vocal contingent that hated Trump?
Have we forgotten that the entire Republican establishment hate hates hates Trump with the fury of a thousand Pelosis?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 26, 2021, 09:24:38 AM
Have we forgotten that the Republican party had a vocal contingent that hated Trump?
Have we forgotten that the entire Republican establishment hate hates hates Trump with the fury of a thousand Pelosis?
Pepperidge Farms remembers, at any rate.

Because I am a loving and just DM, here's the link to the audit video. https://youtu.be/ukitwzb_p44

(Embedding doesn't work for that vid)

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 26, 2021, 09:46:25 AM
Here, have a few highlights I capped.

(https://i.imgur.com/y1Bzl0U.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/8tylvdj.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/BZ9HdhM.jpg)

Yeah, this totally seems legit guise!
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Eirikrautha on September 26, 2021, 01:12:19 PM
Here, have a few highlights I capped.

(https://i.imgur.com/y1Bzl0U.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/8tylvdj.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/BZ9HdhM.jpg)

Yeah, this totally seems legit guise!
Hey, unless you have those images from an Axios report, they are totally unsourced...
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: DocJones on September 26, 2021, 06:46:03 PM
Maricopa County has debunked the Cyber Ninjas BS talking points. I'm starting to understand how so many of you rubes get conned into eating horse medicine.
LOL, 'debunked'. While they were stiff-arming subpoenas and dodging inquries.

Boy, that ActBlue money must be good.
I'm pretty sure the Republicans who run the Maricopa County elections don't receive ActBlue money.

I'm a Trump supporter.  I've been to two rallies, have donated and have worn my MAGA hat proudly.
However on this whole election fraud issue, Trump has surrounded himself with morons, liars and grifters.




Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: DocJones on September 26, 2021, 07:01:48 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/BZ9HdhM.jpg)

Yeah, this totally seems legit guise!
Here's a couple of observations.  The EMS servers and adjudication servers are DELL systems.
The BIOS is configured specifically to only allow booting from a single hard drive, and to not
allow booting from  USB or network drives.
So it doesn't matter how many drives have valid boot sectors.
Second the BIOS is also configured to disable the builtin ethernet and wireless. 

I would also add that the two previous post-election audits conducted by Pro V&V and SLI
found that none of the election machines were not at any time connected to the Internet.
Which is why the subpoena for the router logs was a ridiculous request.


Imagine if Dominion had not resisted the subpoena and given the BIOS passwords to CyberNinjas.
There is a reason they refused to trust a partisan auditing firm and why even State and County officials did not have the passwords. 


Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: SHARK on September 26, 2021, 07:04:40 PM
Maricopa County has debunked the Cyber Ninjas BS talking points. I'm starting to understand how so many of you rubes get conned into eating horse medicine.
LOL, 'debunked'. While they were stiff-arming subpoenas and dodging inquries.

Boy, that ActBlue money must be good.
I'm pretty sure the Republicans who run the Maricopa County elections don't receive ActBlue money.

I'm a Trump supporter.  I've been to two rallies, have donated and have worn my MAGA hat proudly.
However on this whole election fraud issue, Trump has surrounded himself with morons, liars and grifters.

Greetings!

DAMN! Two Trump rallies, DocJones? That must have been fucking awesome!

I've heard that the trump rallies are quite an experience! I'm jealous, my friend!

I didn't get to go to a rally with President Trump. I have a cherished memory, however, of when I was in high school, I was able to attend a rally with President Reagan, just before he won an absolutely crushing victory in being re-elected to his second term as President. I'm not sure why or how--but a decent size group of us high schoolers were in the front row. Like I was 10-feet from President Reagan, where he was flanked by a row of American flags, patriotic music was playing, and President Reagan spoke to us and the crowd for a good time. The experience was absolutely awesome!

Not long afterwards, I signed up in the United States Marine Corps, and volunteered to serve in the Infantry, where I was trained first as a Dragonmaster Gunner, and then as a machine-gunner. Lots of adventures then!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: DocJones on September 26, 2021, 07:23:10 PM
DAMN! Two Trump rallies, DocJones? That must have been fucking awesome!

I've heard that the trump rallies are quite an experience! I'm jealous, my friend!

You will not find a nicer more friendly crowd than at those rallies. 
Same was true back when I attended tea party rallies. ;-)

I was at the in Duluth Minnesota rally just before the election and it was fun.  My sister lives up there.
I was at the first post-election one in Wellington, Ohio which is a few miles from where I live.
My rep is Jim Jordan. :-)

I was okay but I was disappointed that Trump allowed Dr. Douglas Frank to do a presentation
on his statistically-retarded election fraud theory.   
I really did not care to hear MTG either because I think she's as dumb and crazy as AOC.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 26, 2021, 08:20:39 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/BZ9HdhM.jpg)

Yeah, this totally seems legit guise!
Here's a couple of observations.  The EMS servers and adjudication servers are DELL systems.
The BIOS is configured specifically to only allow booting from a single hard drive, and to not
allow booting from  USB or network drives.
So it doesn't matter how many drives have valid boot sectors.
Second the BIOS is also configured to disable the builtin ethernet and wireless. 

I would also add that the two previous post-election audits conducted by Pro V&V and SLI
found that none of the election machines were not at any time connected to the Internet.
Which is why the subpoena for the router logs was a ridiculous request.


Imagine if Dominion had not resisted the subpoena and given the BIOS passwords to CyberNinjas.
There is a reason they refused to trust a partisan auditing firm and why even State and County officials did not have the passwords.
Wait, am I reading this right?

You're stating that: 'The EMS servers and adjudication servers are DELL systems.
The BIOS is configured specifically to only allow booting from a single hard drive, and to not
allow booting from  USB or network drives.'.

The audit found at least one with a dual boot and twin HD configuration.

Does this not strike you as the least fucking bit strange?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on September 26, 2021, 08:48:36 PM
Interesting. Because some of the slides don't speak well of voting security. Like, AT ALL.

Including an image of a purported 'secure box' which should've been stamped 'verified and approved' over the arrow to the address box... except somehow the stamp was BEHIND the arrow? Yeah, that's not how it works.

Thousands of weird, questionable, or just plain nonconforming votes.

How much Trump lose Arizona by, again? 11k?

Twenty-three thousand alone show as voting when their residence was no longer in their polling place.

Hinky, to say the least.

And we're supposed to pretend all people who voted outside their polling place because they had recently moved voted illegally for Biden and none for Trump, right? This is so stupid. It's seriously stupid.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on September 26, 2021, 09:05:05 PM
This Republican-run recount did not find them to be fake votes. There is no legit evidence of fake votes in Arizona.

Well, that's a source of some disagreement. Randy Pullen who is the spokesperson for the recount team said “Was there massive fraud or anything? It doesn’t look like it.”

However, Trump has said that the audit did find massive fraud.

Quote
Massive fraud was found in the Arizona Forensic Audit, sometimes referred to as “Fraudit.” The numbers are Election Changing!
Source: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/news/news-wxnvnq2xcu766

But Trump didn't run it or even see the result of the report before anyone else. The people who ran the report, who are Republicans and from outside the state so not tainted by anything going on in the state, who were hand selected by the republican party in Arizona though, they agree Biden won in Arizona and that there were not fake votes.

Have we forgotten that the Republican party had a vocal contingent that hated Trump?

This is not that contingent though. Trump was praising them and they were praising Trump. Remember, this is not an "official Arizona" audit it's Trumps GOP allies in Arizona.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: DocJones on September 26, 2021, 09:17:57 PM
Wait, am I reading this right?

You're stating that: 'The EMS servers and adjudication servers are DELL systems.
The BIOS is configured specifically to only allow booting from a single hard drive, and to not
allow booting from  USB or network drives.'.

That's correct. Specifically the hardware is wither a Dell Precision 3420 or Dell Precision 3431.

The audit found at least one with a dual boot and twin HD configuration.

Does this not strike you as the least fucking bit strange?
Since the machine could not boot from the drive because of the password protected bios configuration, it is frankly not relevant.
Is there a simple explanation?  Sure.  Maricopa County does use use the ballot image feature and it's a huge county. 
It is certainly possible that a older drive was installed for the additional space requirements.  And the default format was done which
formats the data partition which does not remove the boot sector partition.  Or maybe they just deleted the files on the disk.

By the way the boot sector can be read to determine exactly where and what would be booted. 
That CyberNinjas found this and did not investigate further reveals two possibilities...
1) They are incompetent.  Nah.. they found the boot sector, so not that incompetent..
2) They actually did and found out the boot sector pointed to a non-existent system on the same drive, followed by...
2a) They chose to insinuate something, but not to reveal it goes nowhere.
 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 26, 2021, 09:44:57 PM
Wait, am I reading this right?

You're stating that: 'The EMS servers and adjudication servers are DELL systems.
The BIOS is configured specifically to only allow booting from a single hard drive, and to not
allow booting from  USB or network drives.'.

That's correct. Specifically the hardware is wither a Dell Precision 3420 or Dell Precision 3431.

The audit found at least one with a dual boot and twin HD configuration.

Does this not strike you as the least fucking bit strange?
Since the machine could not boot from the drive because of the password protected bios configuration, it is frankly not relevant.
Is there a simple explanation?  Sure.  Maricopa County does use use the ballot image feature and it's a huge county. 
It is certainly possible that a older drive was installed for the additional space requirements.  And the default format was done which
formats the data partition which does not remove the boot sector partition.  Or maybe they just deleted the files on the disk.

By the way the boot sector can be read to determine exactly where and what would be booted. 
That CyberNinjas found this and did not investigate further reveals two possibilities...
1) They are incompetent.  Nah.. they found the boot sector, so not that incompetent..
2) They actually did and found out the boot sector pointed to a non-existent system on the same drive, followed by...
2a) They chose to insinuate something, but not to reveal it goes nowhere.
...Are you serious?

This is grasping at straws here on your part. At the very LEAST it bespeaks an astonishing naivete on your part, and gross mismanagement in Arizona elections.

And that's why you're getting some more captures from the audit video.

(https://i.imgur.com/YhJyHLe.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/vvFj2Qv.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/oFfs4a1.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ncdBoGp.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/byb98o2.jpg)

Totally above board, right?



Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: DocJones on September 26, 2021, 10:51:42 PM
Since the machine could not boot from the drive because of the password protected bios configuration, it is frankly not relevant.
Is there a simple explanation?  Sure.  Maricopa County does use use the ballot image feature and it's a huge county. 
It is certainly possible that a older drive was installed for the additional space requirements.  And the default format was done which
formats the data partition which does not remove the boot sector partition.  Or maybe they just deleted the files on the disk.

By the way the boot sector can be read to determine exactly where and what would be booted. 
That CyberNinjas found this and did not investigate further reveals two possibilities...
1) They are incompetent.  Nah.. they found the boot sector, so not that incompetent..
2) They actually did and found out the boot sector pointed to a non-existent system on the same drive, followed by...
2a) They chose to insinuate something, but not to reveal it goes nowhere.
...Are you serious?

This is grasping at straws here on your part. At the very LEAST it bespeaks an astonishing naivete on your part, and gross mismanagement in Arizona elections.
You haven't really responded to to what I've pointed out above.
I'm not exactly sure what you think my naivete is or how exactly am I "grasping at straws".
Apparently you have some idea of what that boot sector pointed to and how it was used to "undermine the election".
Care to elaborate?

BTW Maricopa County machines had already been previously audited post-election by two different companies in February 2021.
https://www.maricopa.gov/DocumentCenter/View/66844/Post-Audit-Report
https://www.maricopa.gov/DocumentCenter/View/66843/SLI-Compliance-Forensic-Audit-Report
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 27, 2021, 06:46:11 AM
Since the machine could not boot from the drive because of the password protected bios configuration, it is frankly not relevant.
Is there a simple explanation?  Sure.  Maricopa County does use use the ballot image feature and it's a huge county. 
It is certainly possible that a older drive was installed for the additional space requirements.  And the default format was done which
formats the data partition which does not remove the boot sector partition.  Or maybe they just deleted the files on the disk.

By the way the boot sector can be read to determine exactly where and what would be booted. 
That CyberNinjas found this and did not investigate further reveals two possibilities...
1) They are incompetent.  Nah.. they found the boot sector, so not that incompetent..
2) They actually did and found out the boot sector pointed to a non-existent system on the same drive, followed by...
2a) They chose to insinuate something, but not to reveal it goes nowhere.
...Are you serious?

This is grasping at straws here on your part. At the very LEAST it bespeaks an astonishing naivete on your part, and gross mismanagement in Arizona elections.
You haven't really responded to to what I've pointed out above.
I'm not exactly sure what you think my naivete is or how exactly am I "grasping at straws".
Apparently you have some idea of what that boot sector pointed to and how it was used to "undermine the election".
Care to elaborate?
The existence of such hardware inside a system, where it should not be there, is a gigantic red flag.

I'm not sure how to make this more clear. If you are dealing with a system that must have clear-cut parameters in a critical role, like elections, any deviation from those parameters should garner intense scrutiny.

Quote
BTW Maricopa County machines had already been previously audited post-election by two different companies in February 2021.
https://www.maricopa.gov/DocumentCenter/View/66844/Post-Audit-Report
https://www.maricopa.gov/DocumentCenter/View/66843/SLI-Compliance-Forensic-Audit-Report
So either the Cyber Ninjas just delivered a falsified report or Maricopa delivered a falsified one (that first report is particularly funny, as it's got zero depth; I'm still reviewing the second one).

Considering how Maricopa County fought tooth and nail, up to and including blowing off court subpoenas, against outside audits? I have some suspicions as to who's lying.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Tubesock Army on September 27, 2021, 11:22:08 AM
Since the machine could not boot from the drive because of the password protected bios configuration, it is frankly not relevant.
Is there a simple explanation?  Sure.  Maricopa County does use use the ballot image feature and it's a huge county. 
It is certainly possible that a older drive was installed for the additional space requirements.  And the default format was done which
formats the data partition which does not remove the boot sector partition.  Or maybe they just deleted the files on the disk.

By the way the boot sector can be read to determine exactly where and what would be booted. 
That CyberNinjas found this and did not investigate further reveals two possibilities...
1) They are incompetent.  Nah.. they found the boot sector, so not that incompetent..
2) They actually did and found out the boot sector pointed to a non-existent system on the same drive, followed by...
2a) They chose to insinuate something, but not to reveal it goes nowhere.
...Are you serious?

This is grasping at straws here on your part. At the very LEAST it bespeaks an astonishing naivete on your part, and gross mismanagement in Arizona elections.
You haven't really responded to to what I've pointed out above.
I'm not exactly sure what you think my naivete is or how exactly am I "grasping at straws".
Apparently you have some idea of what that boot sector pointed to and how it was used to "undermine the election".
Care to elaborate?
The existence of such hardware inside a system, where it should not be there, is a gigantic red flag.

I'm not sure how to make this more clear. If you are dealing with a system that must have clear-cut parameters in a critical role, like elections, any deviation from those parameters should garner intense scrutiny.

Quote
BTW Maricopa County machines had already been previously audited post-election by two different companies in February 2021.
https://www.maricopa.gov/DocumentCenter/View/66844/Post-Audit-Report
https://www.maricopa.gov/DocumentCenter/View/66843/SLI-Compliance-Forensic-Audit-Report
So either the Cyber Ninjas just delivered a falsified report or Maricopa delivered a falsified one (that first report is particularly funny, as it's got zero depth; I'm still reviewing the second one).

Considering how Maricopa County fought tooth and nail, up to and including blowing off court subpoenas, against outside audits? I have some suspicions as to who's lying.

Maricopa County did, in fact, comply with subpoenas. For anyone who's interested in the actual facts, here's a handy debunking page:
https://recorder.maricopa.gov/justthefacts/

It's really sad to watch people dig in deeper, despite being proven wrong over and over. Trump Derangement Syndrome, indeed.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 27, 2021, 11:59:04 AM
Since the machine could not boot from the drive because of the password protected bios configuration, it is frankly not relevant.
Is there a simple explanation?  Sure.  Maricopa County does use use the ballot image feature and it's a huge county. 
It is certainly possible that a older drive was installed for the additional space requirements.  And the default format was done which
formats the data partition which does not remove the boot sector partition.  Or maybe they just deleted the files on the disk.

By the way the boot sector can be read to determine exactly where and what would be booted. 
That CyberNinjas found this and did not investigate further reveals two possibilities...
1) They are incompetent.  Nah.. they found the boot sector, so not that incompetent..
2) They actually did and found out the boot sector pointed to a non-existent system on the same drive, followed by...
2a) They chose to insinuate something, but not to reveal it goes nowhere.
...Are you serious?

This is grasping at straws here on your part. At the very LEAST it bespeaks an astonishing naivete on your part, and gross mismanagement in Arizona elections.
You haven't really responded to to what I've pointed out above.
I'm not exactly sure what you think my naivete is or how exactly am I "grasping at straws".
Apparently you have some idea of what that boot sector pointed to and how it was used to "undermine the election".
Care to elaborate?
The existence of such hardware inside a system, where it should not be there, is a gigantic red flag.

I'm not sure how to make this more clear. If you are dealing with a system that must have clear-cut parameters in a critical role, like elections, any deviation from those parameters should garner intense scrutiny.

Quote
BTW Maricopa County machines had already been previously audited post-election by two different companies in February 2021.
https://www.maricopa.gov/DocumentCenter/View/66844/Post-Audit-Report
https://www.maricopa.gov/DocumentCenter/View/66843/SLI-Compliance-Forensic-Audit-Report
So either the Cyber Ninjas just delivered a falsified report or Maricopa delivered a falsified one (that first report is particularly funny, as it's got zero depth; I'm still reviewing the second one).

Considering how Maricopa County fought tooth and nail, up to and including blowing off court subpoenas, against outside audits? I have some suspicions as to who's lying.

Maricopa County did, in fact, comply with subpoenas. For anyone who's interested in the actual facts, here's a handy debunking page:
https://recorder.maricopa.gov/justthefacts/

It's really sad to watch people dig in deeper, despite being proven wrong over and over. Trump Derangement Syndrome, indeed.
I defer to your clearly greater case of TDS.

Especially as routers, poll worker laptops, ICX devices, validation credentials (ICP), and other devices were NOT turned over despite subpoenas and Maricopa's sweaty insistences. How long are you going to insist the emperor has clothes when he clearly does not?

I understand how desperate you are to 'deboonk' this. If nothing else it shines a very large light on some serious, systemic problems in elections. Why, people might start asking harder questions about who votes, and who's counting the votes.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Tubesock Army on September 27, 2021, 12:56:52 PM
Since the machine could not boot from the drive because of the password protected bios configuration, it is frankly not relevant.
Is there a simple explanation?  Sure.  Maricopa County does use use the ballot image feature and it's a huge county. 
It is certainly possible that a older drive was installed for the additional space requirements.  And the default format was done which
formats the data partition which does not remove the boot sector partition.  Or maybe they just deleted the files on the disk.

By the way the boot sector can be read to determine exactly where and what would be booted. 
That CyberNinjas found this and did not investigate further reveals two possibilities...
1) They are incompetent.  Nah.. they found the boot sector, so not that incompetent..
2) They actually did and found out the boot sector pointed to a non-existent system on the same drive, followed by...
2a) They chose to insinuate something, but not to reveal it goes nowhere.
...Are you serious?

This is grasping at straws here on your part. At the very LEAST it bespeaks an astonishing naivete on your part, and gross mismanagement in Arizona elections.
You haven't really responded to to what I've pointed out above.
I'm not exactly sure what you think my naivete is or how exactly am I "grasping at straws".
Apparently you have some idea of what that boot sector pointed to and how it was used to "undermine the election".
Care to elaborate?
The existence of such hardware inside a system, where it should not be there, is a gigantic red flag.

I'm not sure how to make this more clear. If you are dealing with a system that must have clear-cut parameters in a critical role, like elections, any deviation from those parameters should garner intense scrutiny.

Quote
BTW Maricopa County machines had already been previously audited post-election by two different companies in February 2021.
https://www.maricopa.gov/DocumentCenter/View/66844/Post-Audit-Report
https://www.maricopa.gov/DocumentCenter/View/66843/SLI-Compliance-Forensic-Audit-Report
So either the Cyber Ninjas just delivered a falsified report or Maricopa delivered a falsified one (that first report is particularly funny, as it's got zero depth; I'm still reviewing the second one).

Considering how Maricopa County fought tooth and nail, up to and including blowing off court subpoenas, against outside audits? I have some suspicions as to who's lying.

Maricopa County did, in fact, comply with subpoenas. For anyone who's interested in the actual facts, here's a handy debunking page:
https://recorder.maricopa.gov/justthefacts/

It's really sad to watch people dig in deeper, despite being proven wrong over and over. Trump Derangement Syndrome, indeed.
I defer to your clearly greater case of TDS.

Especially as routers, poll worker laptops, ICX devices, validation credentials (ICP), and other devices were NOT turned over despite subpoenas and Maricopa's sweaty insistences. How long are you going to insist the emperor has clothes when he clearly does not?

I understand how desperate you are to 'deboonk' this. If nothing else it shines a very large light on some serious, systemic problems in elections. Why, people might start asking harder questions about who votes, and who's counting the votes.

That must be why the GOP has refused to pass any election security bills. You're right about the symptom, but you're wrong about the cause. Discussions about election integrity should have become - and remained - front and center of American politics after the fiasco of the 2000 election.

As for being desperate, my side is - and has been - winning this at every level. If anyone is desperate, it's not my side. We haven't had to resort to increasingly ridiculous strategies in order to give the illusion of "proving" an absurd and patently false narrative to a bunch of rubes. We just keep winning. At the ballot box, in court, even at the end of this "audit".

And since you've offered nothing but ad hominems, I'll take my point that you can't refute anything on Maricopa County's Mythbusters page as proven.

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 27, 2021, 01:02:53 PM
Since the machine could not boot from the drive because of the password protected bios configuration, it is frankly not relevant.
Is there a simple explanation?  Sure.  Maricopa County does use use the ballot image feature and it's a huge county. 
It is certainly possible that a older drive was installed for the additional space requirements.  And the default format was done which
formats the data partition which does not remove the boot sector partition.  Or maybe they just deleted the files on the disk.

By the way the boot sector can be read to determine exactly where and what would be booted. 
That CyberNinjas found this and did not investigate further reveals two possibilities...
1) They are incompetent.  Nah.. they found the boot sector, so not that incompetent..
2) They actually did and found out the boot sector pointed to a non-existent system on the same drive, followed by...
2a) They chose to insinuate something, but not to reveal it goes nowhere.
...Are you serious?

This is grasping at straws here on your part. At the very LEAST it bespeaks an astonishing naivete on your part, and gross mismanagement in Arizona elections.
You haven't really responded to to what I've pointed out above.
I'm not exactly sure what you think my naivete is or how exactly am I "grasping at straws".
Apparently you have some idea of what that boot sector pointed to and how it was used to "undermine the election".
Care to elaborate?
The existence of such hardware inside a system, where it should not be there, is a gigantic red flag.

I'm not sure how to make this more clear. If you are dealing with a system that must have clear-cut parameters in a critical role, like elections, any deviation from those parameters should garner intense scrutiny.

Quote
BTW Maricopa County machines had already been previously audited post-election by two different companies in February 2021.
https://www.maricopa.gov/DocumentCenter/View/66844/Post-Audit-Report
https://www.maricopa.gov/DocumentCenter/View/66843/SLI-Compliance-Forensic-Audit-Report
So either the Cyber Ninjas just delivered a falsified report or Maricopa delivered a falsified one (that first report is particularly funny, as it's got zero depth; I'm still reviewing the second one).

Considering how Maricopa County fought tooth and nail, up to and including blowing off court subpoenas, against outside audits? I have some suspicions as to who's lying.

Maricopa County did, in fact, comply with subpoenas. For anyone who's interested in the actual facts, here's a handy debunking page:
https://recorder.maricopa.gov/justthefacts/

It's really sad to watch people dig in deeper, despite being proven wrong over and over. Trump Derangement Syndrome, indeed.
I defer to your clearly greater case of TDS.

Especially as routers, poll worker laptops, ICX devices, validation credentials (ICP), and other devices were NOT turned over despite subpoenas and Maricopa's sweaty insistences. How long are you going to insist the emperor has clothes when he clearly does not?

I understand how desperate you are to 'deboonk' this. If nothing else it shines a very large light on some serious, systemic problems in elections. Why, people might start asking harder questions about who votes, and who's counting the votes.

That must be why the GOP has refused to pass any election security bills. You're right about the symptom, but you're wrong about the cause. Discussions about election integrity should have become - and remained - front and center of American politics after the fiasco of the 2000 election.
Funny, the Dems shit their pants when Texas and Georgia started tightening things up.

Maybe you think this is a federal issue, in which case -- oh wait, supposedly the Democrats are in power.

Quote
As for being desperate, my side is - and has been - winning this at every level. If anyone is desperate, it's not my side. We haven't had to resort to increasingly ridiculous strategies in order to give the illusion of "proving" an absurd and patently false narrative to a bunch of rubes. We just keep winning. At the ballot box, in court, even at the end of this "audit".
Yawn. The only thing you've won is a booby prize, what with your incoherent, senile standard bearer causing more problems domestic and foreign than Trump could in a hundred years.

But keep slurping the copium, I'm sure that 40% approval rating is just evil fake news.

Quote
And since you've offered nothing but ad hominems, I'll take my point that you can't refute anything on Maricopa County's Mythbusters page as proven.
Bitch, I posted the link to the CN audit hearing. I've posted caps from it. I've straight up said 'Someone here is lying' and my suspicions as to who it is, judging by past actions.

But since you think this is nothing but 'ad hominems', you won't mind if I send your sorry ass back to the cornfield.

Remember, though: the left spent most of 2019-2020 insisting Hunter Biden's laptop was 'fake news'... only to finally admit it wasn't recently.

What else are they gonna have to admit to?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 27, 2021, 03:51:53 PM
And since a lot of people have trouble reading, let's bring in Larry 'My Second Job Was Auditing and Accounting' Correia to discuss the audit!

https://monsterhunternation.com/2021/09/27/people-really-dont-understand-how-audits-work-and-the-media-likes-it-that-way/

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on September 27, 2021, 04:58:37 PM
The existence of such hardware inside a system, where it should not be there, is a gigantic red flag.

I'm not sure how to make this more clear. If you are dealing with a system that must have clear-cut parameters in a critical role, like elections, any deviation from those parameters should garner intense scrutiny.

Isn't intense scrutiny the whole point of the audit? Overall, the spokesperson for the audit (Pullen) said it didn't look like there was massive fraud. Should there be prosecutions based on the audit? Should there be a second audit? What do you see as the path forward?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Tubesock Army on September 27, 2021, 05:12:41 PM
And since a lot of people have trouble reading, let's bring in Larry 'My Second Job Was Auditing and Accounting' Correia to discuss the audit!

https://monsterhunternation.com/2021/09/27/people-really-dont-understand-how-audits-work-and-the-media-likes-it-that-way/

And still the best he can come up with is "maybe, possibly, perhaps".

When you have to resort to hypotheticals to support your position, your position is probably garbage.

He can't - or won't - say there has been fraud.

You told me to huff some copium, but I don't think you left any for anyone else.

This is only gonna get funnier once Dominion runs through Trump's former legal team like Grant ran through Richmond.


Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 27, 2021, 05:34:30 PM
The existence of such hardware inside a system, where it should not be there, is a gigantic red flag.

I'm not sure how to make this more clear. If you are dealing with a system that must have clear-cut parameters in a critical role, like elections, any deviation from those parameters should garner intense scrutiny.

Isn't intense scrutiny the whole point of the audit? Overall, the spokesperson for the audit (Pullen) said it didn't look like there was massive fraud. Should there be prosecutions based on the audit? Should there be a second audit? What do you see as the path forward?
When did he say that?

Because the audit identified over 86 thousand voters that don't seem to actually exist.

Considering the margin of victory in AZ, I would say that's pretty serious fraud.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on September 27, 2021, 06:50:04 PM
When did he say that?

Because the audit identified over 86 thousand voters that don't seem to actually exist.

Considering the margin of victory in AZ, I would say that's pretty serious fraud.

I quoted him in my reply #1364,

https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/live-coverage-of-rally-for-president-trump-in-dc!-01062021/msg1189787/#msg1189787

Here's what I see. The news report linked below contains the leaked copy of the draft report. The final report is supposed to be released today, but I haven't seen a site where it can be downloaded yet.

Quote
“What has been found is both encouraging and alarming. On the positive side there were no substantial differences between the hand count of the ballots provided and the official canvass results for the county,” the draft states.

Pullen confirmed that the hand recount was “relatively close” to the official tally.

“Was there massive fraud or anything? It doesn’t look like it,” he added.

However, the draft report raises concerns about the county’s elections systems and record-keeping, and accuses Maricopa County officials of stonewalling their effort to perform “a complete audit.”

“Had Maricopa County chosen to cooperate with the audit, the majority of these obstacles would have easily been overcome,” the report states.

Source: https://kjzz.org/content/1719314/arizona-election-audit-confirms-bidens-win-maricopa-county-also-casts-doubts
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 27, 2021, 09:16:20 PM
When did he say that?

Because the audit identified over 86 thousand voters that don't seem to actually exist.

Considering the margin of victory in AZ, I would say that's pretty serious fraud.

I quoted him in my reply #1364,

https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/live-coverage-of-rally-for-president-trump-in-dc!-01062021/msg1189787/#msg1189787

Here's what I see. The news report linked below contains the leaked copy of the draft report. The final report is supposed to be released today, but I haven't seen a site where it can be downloaded yet.

Quote
“What has been found is both encouraging and alarming. On the positive side there were no substantial differences between the hand count of the ballots provided and the official canvass results for the county,” the draft states.

Pullen confirmed that the hand recount was “relatively close” to the official tally.

“Was there massive fraud or anything? It doesn’t look like it,” he added.

However, the draft report raises concerns about the county’s elections systems and record-keeping, and accuses Maricopa County officials of stonewalling their effort to perform “a complete audit.”

“Had Maricopa County chosen to cooperate with the audit, the majority of these obstacles would have easily been overcome,” the report states.

Source: https://kjzz.org/content/1719314/arizona-election-audit-confirms-bidens-win-maricopa-county-also-casts-doubts
I'm suspicious as hell about the provenance of the quote, because he's referencing the 'official' count and the canvass results. IIRC, those aren't in question.

What's in question is the provenance of the ballots themselves, and there's a LOT of problems there.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on September 27, 2021, 11:38:44 PM

When did he say that?

Because the audit identified over 86 thousand voters that don't seem to actually exist.

No, it didn't.

But, you knew that.

From USA Today:

Local media outlets and elections officials have also refuted the report's claim that there were more than 96,000 "ghost votes" in Maricopa County.

The claim is based on data from 3,606 registered voters whom Maricopa County indicated had voted in the election, 2,897 of them by mail. Of that group, Harris and her volunteers found 164 mail-in voters who were "unknown to the resident or known but having moved prior to the election registration deadline."

"This represents 5.66% of all mail-in voters on which data was gathered," reads the report. "Overall, there were 1,702,981 mail-in votes tallied by the in (sic) the election. Extrapolating these results to the entire county, which can be done at a scientifically correlated confidence level of 95%, it is estimated that 96,389 mail-in ballots should not have been cast due to this issue."

Data collection issues aside [The article spends a great deal of time elsewhere explaining how the data collection is deeply flawed and nothing close to a random sample], the only examples Harris gave in the report didn't check out.

The original cover photo of the report claimed to show a "vacant lot ... that cast two mail-in ballots." But both Stephen Richer, the Republican recorder of Maricopa County, and Garrett Archer, a data analyst for KNXV-TV, found a home that had been on that site since 2005, according to records from the Maricopa County Assessor's Office.

Harris later changed the cover photo to show another vacant lot that purportedly cast a mail-in vote in 2020. But that example was quickly debunked, too.

"There is a valid registered voter at that address and a mobile home park in December of 2019," Archer tweeted Sept. 8.

After reaching out to the Maricopa County Elections Department, Archer wrote in a follow-up tweet that the lot was "a mobile home park in 2020 before it was demolished" and the voter in question "requested the ballot be sent to a temporary address."

Election data reported by KNXV-TV indicates 2,089,756 voters were checked in and 2,089,563 ballots were counted in Maricopa County during the election. The discrepancy is due to rare occurrences like mail-in votes not containing ballots, elections officials told the TV station.

"It is irresponsible and silly to claim 100,000+ errors and offer only 2 alleged inaccuracies, both of which are easily debunked," Richer tweeted Sept. 8.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Tubesock Army on September 28, 2021, 11:25:51 AM
Livestock dewormer is a helluva drug
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on September 28, 2021, 02:29:56 PM
Livestock dewormer is a helluva drug

That's not an honest view on that particular drug. In fact it's doing serious damage to a reputable drug which was hailed by the Noble committee as saving thousands of human lives. I don't know why this one got politicized like it did, but it's a shitty thing to perpetuate it. Saying "It's not effective against Covid" is different from saying "It's just a livestock dewormer!" when it is definitely a human drug.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on September 28, 2021, 02:55:13 PM
When did he say that?

Because the audit identified over 86 thousand voters that don't seem to actually exist.

Considering the margin of victory in AZ, I would say that's pretty serious fraud.

I quoted him in my reply #1364,

https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/live-coverage-of-rally-for-president-trump-in-dc!-01062021/msg1189787/#msg1189787

Here's what I see. The news report linked below contains the leaked copy of the draft report. The final report is supposed to be released today, but I haven't seen a site where it can be downloaded yet.

Quote
“What has been found is both encouraging and alarming. On the positive side there were no substantial differences between the hand count of the ballots provided and the official canvass results for the county,” the draft states.

Pullen confirmed that the hand recount was “relatively close” to the official tally.

“Was there massive fraud or anything? It doesn’t look like it,” he added.

However, the draft report raises concerns about the county’s elections systems and record-keeping, and accuses Maricopa County officials of stonewalling their effort to perform “a complete audit.”

“Had Maricopa County chosen to cooperate with the audit, the majority of these obstacles would have easily been overcome,” the report states.

Source: https://kjzz.org/content/1719314/arizona-election-audit-confirms-bidens-win-maricopa-county-also-casts-doubts
I'm suspicious as hell about the provenance of the quote, because he's referencing the 'official' count and the canvass results. IIRC, those aren't in question.

What's in question is the provenance of the ballots themselves, and there's a LOT of problems there.

The quote has been reported in a lot of places, but I suspect you won't trust the other sources any more than KJZZ. Still, it's widely reported, so I would think that if Pullen didn't say it, then he would publicly respond that the quote was falsified. I haven't seen any such denial - but if you do, I'd be willing to believe it.

That still leaves the previous question - if you think that the discrepancies need further scrutiny, then what do you think the next steps should be?

I still haven't read the full report, but from what I saw, the report is recommending legislative changes - but it doesn't seem to be calling for criminal investigation or lawsuits. If there is substantial evidence of fraud, then I would say the proper thing is that a criminal investigation be opened.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 28, 2021, 02:59:39 PM
Part of the problem of 'widely reported' is that it's the 21st century of 'everyone knows this to be true'. And I like to point out that there are many things people 'knew' that just weren't so.

What do I think the next steps should be? Court summons. Subpoenas that come with the addendum of 'if you ignore this, state troopers come to your house and arrest you'. Analysis of the missing equipment and documentation. Explanations as to why millions of files were wiped when there were subpoenas and official requests for said material.

And then if there is fraud, it should be treated as treasonous. After all, people have bandied 'treason' around quite a bit as a label for 'attacks on our democracy'. So we shouldn't have any trouble treating voter fraud as treason, right? It strikes at the core of how any kind of republic or democracy works.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: deadDMwalking on September 28, 2021, 03:58:15 PM
Actually, that sounds like nuisance lawsuits.

What reason, besides the results, does anyone have to doubt the validity of the election? 

Keep in mind that we're talking about changing the results of MULTIPLE states, each with different election processes and procedures and several of those states were 1) won by Trump in 2016 (no accusations of fraud at that time), 2) used the same voting processes in place in 2016, 3) had the election overseen by Republican election officials. 

If there was a single shred of EVIDENCE that something sinister had happened, YES, you file charges, subpoena witnesses, and investigate.  But to keep pulling people from their full-time job to keep answering an inquiry that keeps coming back with the answer you don't like is NOT how you handle things in a free society. 
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: jhkim on September 28, 2021, 05:21:56 PM
Part of the problem of 'widely reported' is that it's the 21st century of 'everyone knows this to be true'. And I like to point out that there are many things people 'knew' that just weren't so.

In this case, Pullen is a living person and politician - and indeed he is the liaison for the audit responsible for communicating to the public. If the quote is a fabrication, then I'd expect that Newsmax or someone similar could get a quote from him denying it. Along similar lines, there was a supposed draft report that was spread around - and the Arizona Capitol Times (among others) reported Pullen denying the draft.

Quote
The draft – published alongside a Gateway Pundit article titled “Arizona Audit Final Report Was Watered Down” – includes the line “based on these factual findings, the election should not be certified, and the reported results are not reliable.”

“This is a fake document,” Senate audit liaison Randy Pullen said in a text message.

Pullen, former Republican Party of Arizona chairman, said “there was never a discussion about decertifying.”
Source: https://azcapitoltimes.com/news/2021/09/27/pullen-draft-audit-report-calling-for-decertification-of-election-a-fake/

That there was never discussion of decertifying also suggests to me that the report does not constitute evidence of massive fraud.


What do I think the next steps should be? Court summons. Subpoenas that come with the addendum of 'if you ignore this, state troopers come to your house and arrest you'. Analysis of the missing equipment and documentation. Explanations as to why millions of files were wiped when there were subpoenas and official requests for said material.

Fair enough. I agree that evidence of fraud should lead to criminal investigation and prosecutions. If those don't materialize, though, will that just be proof that the Arizona Republicans hate Trump and hate the truth, so they're covering up for Biden?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 28, 2021, 05:47:44 PM
Part of the problem of 'widely reported' is that it's the 21st century of 'everyone knows this to be true'. And I like to point out that there are many things people 'knew' that just weren't so.

In this case, Pullen is a living person and politician - and indeed he is the liaison for the audit responsible for communicating to the public. If the quote is a fabrication, then I'd expect that Newsmax or someone similar could get a quote from him denying it. Along similar lines, there was a supposed draft report that was spread around - and the Arizona Capitol Times (among others) reported Pullen denying the draft.

Quote
The draft – published alongside a Gateway Pundit article titled “Arizona Audit Final Report Was Watered Down” – includes the line “based on these factual findings, the election should not be certified, and the reported results are not reliable.”

“This is a fake document,” Senate audit liaison Randy Pullen said in a text message.

Pullen, former Republican Party of Arizona chairman, said “there was never a discussion about decertifying.”
Source: https://azcapitoltimes.com/news/2021/09/27/pullen-draft-audit-report-calling-for-decertification-of-election-a-fake/

That there was never discussion of decertifying also suggests to me that the report does not constitute evidence of massive fraud.


What do I think the next steps should be? Court summons. Subpoenas that come with the addendum of 'if you ignore this, state troopers come to your house and arrest you'. Analysis of the missing equipment and documentation. Explanations as to why millions of files were wiped when there were subpoenas and official requests for said material.

Fair enough. I agree that evidence of fraud should lead to criminal investigation and prosecutions. If those don't materialize, though, will that just be proof that the Arizona Republicans hate Trump and hate the truth, so they're covering up for Biden?
The problem with decertification is that bluntly put, it opens a HUGE can of worms. One that, I might add, the Dems have been playing with for a while. I know some of you remember the sniveling over 2016, right? Faithless electors, etc?

Let's not kid ourselves that it wouldn't be a colossal mess. Pulling that trigger would be a rubicon crossed.

If action is not taken though, my assumption is that too many people want to 'go along to get along'. Don't rock the boat, don't upset the rice bowls.

Although I suspect the AZ GOP is not going to let up that easily. They seem to have sunk some hooks into Kyrsten Sinema.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on September 28, 2021, 06:12:03 PM
Livestock dewormer is a helluva drug

That's not an honest view on that particular drug. In fact it's doing serious damage to a reputable drug which was hailed by the Noble committee as saving thousands of human lives. I don't know why this one got politicized like it did, but it's a shitty thing to perpetuate it. Saying "It's not effective against Covid" is different from saying "It's just a livestock dewormer!" when it is definitely a human drug.
I prefer my drugs to have human characteristics, just like those humanized mice in Wuhan.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 28, 2021, 07:28:02 PM
Livestock dewormer is a helluva drug

That's not an honest view on that particular drug. In fact it's doing serious damage to a reputable drug which was hailed by the Noble committee as saving thousands of human lives. I don't know why this one got politicized like it did, but it's a shitty thing to perpetuate it. Saying "It's not effective against Covid" is different from saying "It's just a livestock dewormer!" when it is definitely a human drug.
I prefer my drugs to have human characteristics, just like those humanized mice in Wuhan.
They'd rather have people die of malaria than give up their narrative.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 29, 2021, 01:26:07 AM
Livestock dewormer is a helluva drug

That's not an honest view on that particular drug. In fact it's doing serious damage to a reputable drug which was hailed by the Noble committee as saving thousands of human lives. I don't know why this one got politicized like it did, but it's a shitty thing to perpetuate it. Saying "It's not effective against Covid" is different from saying "It's just a livestock dewormer!" when it is definitely a human drug.

For once, we agree. The "dewormer" narrative is/was disingenuous and harmful.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: HappyDaze on September 29, 2021, 03:20:44 AM
Livestock dewormer is a helluva drug

That's not an honest view on that particular drug. In fact it's doing serious damage to a reputable drug which was hailed by the Noble committee as saving thousands of human lives. I don't know why this one got politicized like it did, but it's a shitty thing to perpetuate it. Saying "It's not effective against Covid" is different from saying "It's just a livestock dewormer!" when it is definitely a human drug.

For once, we agree. The "dewormer" narrative is/was disingenuous and harmful.
It's not the dewormer part of the narrative that's disingenuous (because it is an antihelmintic), it's the part suggesting that it isn't a medication with approved human uses (in the proper forms and dosages).
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 29, 2021, 11:03:55 AM
It appears not everyone agrees with some of the assertions made that the audit was no big deal.

https://www.azag.gov/sites/default/files/docs/press-releases/2021/letters/210927_Letter_to_Maricopa_County_re_Litigation_Hold.pdf

(https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/AC291BA7-3AFE-4112-941A-213894C0A603.jpeg)

(https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/7A19A038-E04D-449B-A90F-D6A5702B09EC.jpeg)

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Mistwell on September 29, 2021, 04:58:21 PM
It appears not everyone agrees with some of the assertions made that the audit was no big deal.

https://www.azag.gov/sites/default/files/docs/press-releases/2021/letters/210927_Letter_to_Maricopa_County_re_Litigation_Hold.pdf

(https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/AC291BA7-3AFE-4112-941A-213894C0A603.jpeg)

(https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/7A19A038-E04D-449B-A90F-D6A5702B09EC.jpeg)

Whether you think they are a big deal or not, there is a meaningful difference between, "We should improve the systems and procedures used in our elections in the future so let's investigate all the problems with this one to learn from it," and "We proved Trump won Arizona!"

The later, at this point, appears to be a baseless allegation made by ideological fanatics.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Tubesock Army on October 01, 2021, 07:03:35 PM
Transcripts of an August 14 deposition in the "Dominion is going to ass rape Rudy Giuliani" case show that Giuliani, by his own admission, got the stories about voter fraud from social media, and never authenticated or fact checked anything.

Fukken loooooooool
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on October 01, 2021, 07:09:01 PM
Is there even one person in the US that will trust Dominion with their voting again?

They better hope Giuliani doesnt declare bankruptcy cause they are gonna need that money.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 01, 2021, 07:12:35 PM
Is there even one person in the US that will trust Dominion with their voting again?

They better hope Giuliani doesnt declare bankruptcy cause they are gonna need that money.
I'm sure Tubesnake would trust them with his vote, and his wife as well.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Tubesock Army on October 01, 2021, 09:14:30 PM
Is there even one person in the US that will trust Dominion with their voting again?

They better hope Giuliani doesnt declare bankruptcy cause they are gonna need that money.

Dominion will emerge from this largely unscathed, especially after they finish hollowing out Powell, Wood, et. al. Further admissions and revelations of the baseless and frivolous nature of the Kraken lolsuit will come to light, and more and more poeple will see the game for what it is. Those who will distrust Dominion will be those who have been suckling at the teat of disinformation for so long that they have come to prefer it to the truth. These people are largely unreachable. If America didn't make any significant changes to its election system after 2000, it certainly isn't going to do so now. But keep on huffing that Copium, and telling yourself that a failed and provably frivolous cluster fuck of legal asshattery will finally tip the scales in the favor of MAGAloids.

Also, not all of the precincts in question use Dominion. Many use ES&S, whose practices are similar, but who also has financial ties to several prominent Republicans.

Lastly, in Minnesots, a Booger Boy has admitted to posing as a BLM protestor while shooting at a police station during the George Floyd protests:
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2021/09/30/texas-man-24-admits-shooting-at-minneapolis-police-station-during-riot

Why, oh why didn't I buy stock in popcorn?

Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Tubesock Army on October 01, 2021, 09:17:04 PM
Is there even one person in the US that will trust Dominion with their voting again?

They better hope Giuliani doesnt declare bankruptcy cause they are gonna need that money.
I'm sure Tubesnake would trust them with his vote, and his wife as well.

Can we leave significant others out of this? I'm not dragging your crusty second-hand fleshlight (in Donald Trump orange) into this political discussion, am I?
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Tubesock Army on October 01, 2021, 09:17:20 PM
Double post
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on October 01, 2021, 09:38:25 PM
Is there even one person in the US that will trust Dominion with their voting again?

They better hope Giuliani doesnt declare bankruptcy cause they are gonna need that money.

Dominion will emerge from this largely unscathed

Then they cant successfully sue Giuliani if they have not suffered any damages.

Man that catch 22 sucks.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Tubesock Army on October 01, 2021, 09:56:19 PM
Is there even one person in the US that will trust Dominion with their voting again?

They better hope Giuliani doesnt declare bankruptcy cause they are gonna need that money.

Dominion will emerge from this largely unscathed

Then they cant successfully sue Giuliani if they have not suffered any damages.

Man that catch 22 sucks.

Oh, noes! If only Dominion's lawyers knew as much about the law as yoAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I tried.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on October 01, 2021, 10:39:11 PM
Is there even one person in the US that will trust Dominion with their voting again?

They better hope Giuliani doesnt declare bankruptcy cause they are gonna need that money.

Dominion will emerge from this largely unscathed

Then they cant successfully sue Giuliani if they have not suffered any damages.

Man that catch 22 sucks.

Oh, noes! If only Dominion's lawyers knew as much about the law as yoAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I tried.

Reminds me of that joke about how 95% of Lawyers make the others look bad.  I am sure that the Dominion Lawyers are among that 5%  ;)
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Tubesock Army on October 02, 2021, 11:51:32 AM
Is there even one person in the US that will trust Dominion with their voting again?

They better hope Giuliani doesnt declare bankruptcy cause they are gonna need that money.

Dominion will emerge from this largely unscathed

Then they cant successfully sue Giuliani if they have not suffered any damages.

Man that catch 22 sucks.

Oh, noes! If only Dominion's lawyers knew as much about the law as yoAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I tried.

Reminds me of that joke about how 95% of Lawyers make the others look bad.  I am sure that the Dominion Lawyers are among that 5%  ;)

They don't have to be in the upper 5th percentile, they just have to be better than Rudy, Powell and Wood. So far, that's been a pretty easy bar to clear.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Shasarak on October 02, 2021, 04:53:18 PM
Dominion being sued by Dershowitz for engaging in Lawfare against election personal.

One more for the good guys
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Tubesock Army on October 02, 2021, 05:00:18 PM
Dominion being sued by Dershowitz for engaging in Lawfare against election personal.

One more for the good guys

Actually, Underwear Boy isn't suing anyone. He isn't even part of the legal team, he is only acting as an advisor. This suit won't go anywhere. The 8 individuals suing are alleging a violation of their First Amendment rights because they received C&Ds from Dominion for spreading lies about the election.

If this is what you call a "score", you're a lot more optimistic than you are intelligent.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: Pat on October 02, 2021, 07:45:45 PM
Is there even one person in the US that will trust Dominion with their voting again?

They better hope Giuliani doesnt declare bankruptcy cause they are gonna need that money.

Dominion will emerge from this largely unscathed

Then they cant successfully sue Giuliani if they have not suffered any damages.

Man that catch 22 sucks.

Oh, noes! If only Dominion's lawyers knew as much about the law as yoAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I tried.

Reminds me of that joke about how 95% of Lawyers make the others look bad.  I am sure that the Dominion Lawyers are among that 5%  ;)

They don't have to be in the upper 5th percentile, they just have to be better than Rudy, Powell and Wood. So far, that's been a pretty easy bar to clear.
I'm pretty sure 100% of the upper 5th percentile of lawyers are among the 95% that make the others look bad.
Title: Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
Post by: RPGPundit on October 03, 2021, 02:45:03 PM
As several of you have made this thread idiotic, I'm no longer interested.