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Author Topic: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021  (Read 10788 times)

jhkim

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #420 on: January 13, 2021, 06:42:18 pm »
I've submitted to have the social media discussion be a separate thread, but it hasn't been approved yet.

I'm not sure exactly where I stand on how to reform Section 230, but I do think that it is *not* simply the purview of the FBI and police to handle all lawbreaking. Citizens have a responsibility to report crime and not participate in it.

For example, someone tells me a slanderous rumor about someone else - I then write it up and send it to a newspaper, which prints it. I think both I and the newspaper have some responsibility here - both legally and ethically. Just mindlessly repeating what one is told is wrong. People should be responsible for what they say and publish. That is a standard that newspapers are held to, but social media companies get a special legal loophole.

That said, I'm not eager for social media companies to be the determiners of truth. *If* we give them a legal loophole to avoid responsibility, though, then there need to be strings attached that make the social media more functionally public and allowing of free speech.
Your standard for spreading of the responsibility for a slanderous rumor would come close to preventing anyone from saying anything negative about anyone else, ever. That would pretty much kill public discussion about people. The internet can be one huge dogpile for one who gets the slightest bit famous just because of the asymmetric number of responses, but we also shouldn't criminalize gossip.

I don't have a clear answer on 230, either, except to say all the proposals seem terrible. The platform vs. publisher distinction is a good one, but requires a lot of thought to implement.

I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that spreading responsibility is how the law works already - and in fact, that's how it has been for decades if not centuries. If a newspaper publishes libel about someone, they have some responsibility for what they say. It is only because of Section 230 that Internet publishers are not liable.

https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/immunity-online-publishers-under-communications-decency-act


I mean, I'm not hot about people ratting out other people for petty crimes. I'd never call the cops on someone for using drugs, for example. Victimless "crimes" are none of my business as far as I'm concerned. But any serious crimes need to be reported.

The stuff about newspapers is a tricky business, though, cuz it's one thing for some random person to idly speculate about potentially slanderous stuff down the street, or even in social media. It's another thing for a newspaper or other news publishers with broad reach and credibility to just run with it and publish it as fact, as they often seem to do (particularly when discussing broad groups of people, like GamerGate or Trump supporters, as opposed to specific individuals, where "slander" would more properly apply legally speaking from what I understand). People have a right to discuss potentially false or inaccurate stuff, particularly since no one has perfect knowledge of every topic, so they might simply be wrong or just speculating about something. But when "authoritative" sources disseminate false claims to a credulous public it becomes an issue because they may take it as fact. But they might not take as fact something some random anonymous guy told them in social media one time.

I think it's the opposite. These days, I think social media has far *more* influence over people than newspapers do. That's because it seems personal -- my friend Mike showed me this link, and I trust Mike. And it has a built-in mechanism for reinforcing this with "likes", which gives it an interactive feedback loop. Newspapers are struggling to compete with social media, and a lot of them are being forced to close shop (especially the local ones).

And social media companies strongly influence the content on their platforms. This isn't primarily by banning -- it's by suggesting and increasing visibility of certain content, and decreasing the visibility of other content. And they also do block posts and/or ban people.

rawma

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #421 on: January 13, 2021, 06:53:17 pm »
I doubt it will go beyond a symbolic gesture. The Senate will slap it down.

I am not so sure about that. I used to think that...but no longer.

There's some merit to having the impeachment hanging over Trump in the final days. McConnell has stated that it won't be taken up by the Senate before Biden is inaugurated. Maybe there's an implicit "barring another stunt like the insurrection", maybe not; I hope Trump isn't too sure of the latter.

I hope Trump runs again in 2024 and wins, and I hope the populists give the "progressive" Democrats and thier crony Republican allies four years of hell.

Trump will be back?

From two months ago, so both dated and prescient. "And if you still dissent, I will kill democracy to remain the president."

Pat

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #422 on: January 13, 2021, 07:15:57 pm »
I guess that makes Trump the first president in history to have been impeached twice for completely bullshit and baseless reasons fabricated by his political opponents. Democrats will continue to get the world that they have created.
Why stop at twice? There's a full week until the inauguration.

Pat

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #423 on: January 13, 2021, 07:23:32 pm »
I've submitted to have the social media discussion be a separate thread, but it hasn't been approved yet.

I'm not sure exactly where I stand on how to reform Section 230, but I do think that it is *not* simply the purview of the FBI and police to handle all lawbreaking. Citizens have a responsibility to report crime and not participate in it.

For example, someone tells me a slanderous rumor about someone else - I then write it up and send it to a newspaper, which prints it. I think both I and the newspaper have some responsibility here - both legally and ethically. Just mindlessly repeating what one is told is wrong. People should be responsible for what they say and publish. That is a standard that newspapers are held to, but social media companies get a special legal loophole.

That said, I'm not eager for social media companies to be the determiners of truth. *If* we give them a legal loophole to avoid responsibility, though, then there need to be strings attached that make the social media more functionally public and allowing of free speech.
Your standard for spreading of the responsibility for a slanderous rumor would come close to preventing anyone from saying anything negative about anyone else, ever. That would pretty much kill public discussion about people. The internet can be one huge dogpile for one who gets the slightest bit famous just because of the asymmetric number of responses, but we also shouldn't criminalize gossip.

I don't have a clear answer on 230, either, except to say all the proposals seem terrible. The platform vs. publisher distinction is a good one, but requires a lot of thought to implement.

I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that spreading responsibility is how the law works already - and in fact, that's how it has been for decades if not centuries. If a newspaper publishes libel about someone, they have some responsibility for what they say. It is only because of Section 230 that Internet publishers are not liable.

https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/immunity-online-publishers-under-communications-decency-act
There's a big difference between treating a newspaper as a publisher, and treating every backyard gossip who posts on twitter or facebook as a publisher.

Ratman_tf

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #424 on: January 13, 2021, 08:21:08 pm »
I doubt it will go beyond a symbolic gesture. The Senate will slap it down.

I am not so sure about that. I used to think that...but no longer.

There's some merit to having the impeachment hanging over Trump in the final days. McConnell has stated that it won't be taken up by the Senate before Biden is inaugurated. Maybe there's an implicit "barring another stunt like the insurrection", maybe not; I hope Trump isn't too sure of the latter.

I hope Trump runs again in 2024 and wins, and I hope the populists give the "progressive" Democrats and thier crony Republican allies four years of hell.

Trump will be back?

From two months ago, so both dated and prescient. "And if you still dissent, I will kill democracy to remain the president."

The social media crackdowns have let Conservatives know that the current media industrial complex is gunning for them. It's not just Trump, but anyone in the way of their narrative. They tightend their grip, and now more voters are going to slip through their fingers.

The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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Shasarak

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #425 on: January 13, 2021, 08:31:13 pm »
Donald Trump impeached, a second time, for inciting the insurrection discussed in this thread. Ten Republicans overcame the fear gripping so many in their caucus to vote for it.

Finally Trump impeached!  Lets see if it will stick this time or just another big nothing burger.
"There can be no middle ground with bigots. Bigots want to deny the rights and livelihood of people different from them. They want them to cease existing, either by going underground or by murdering them. There is no "let's meet in the middle" with that. To suggest there can be is ignorance" RPGNet

Shasarak

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #426 on: January 13, 2021, 08:35:31 pm »
"And if you still dissent, I will kill democracy to remain the president."

Thats a good one, Trump will kill democracy.

I had my money on retarded Beaners.
"There can be no middle ground with bigots. Bigots want to deny the rights and livelihood of people different from them. They want them to cease existing, either by going underground or by murdering them. There is no "let's meet in the middle" with that. To suggest there can be is ignorance" RPGNet

consolcwby

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #427 on: January 13, 2021, 10:13:07 pm »

FOOD FOR THOUGHT
================
Eric Swalwell being promoted to House Impeachment Manager instead of being removed from the House Intelligence Committee is proof that Democrats have no problem with the CCP controlling their members. That should tell you everything you need to know about their party.
House Republicans who backed impeachment: Rep. Liz Cheney (WY) Rep. Jaime Herrera Beutler (WA) Rep. John Katko (NY) Rep. Adam Kinzinger (IL) Rep. Fred Upton (MI) Rep. Dan Newhouse (WA) Rep. Peter Meijer (MI) Rep. Anthony Gonzalez (OH) Rep. Tom Rice (SC) Rep. David Valadao (CA)

Rep. Lauren Boebert (R-CO), one of President Trump’s most vocal defenders, has been locked out of her Twitter account until inauguration day.
YouTube announced it is suspending the channel of President Trump for a minimum of one week for posting an unspecified video the tech giant accused of “inciting violence.” The video was taken down by YouTube and the posting of comments to Trump’s videos was also disabled. Trumps channel received 1 strike, which means it will be down for 7 days, interesting isn't it?

Also, Vice President Mike Pence confirmed in a letter addressed to Nancy Pelosi that he will not invoke the 25th amendment to remove President Trump from office, just hours before the House was set to vote on a resolution formally calling on him to do so.
In a letter to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Pence said he does not “believe that such a course of action is in the best interest of our Nation or consistent with our Constitution”, and adding that he did “not yield to pressure to exert power beyond my constitutional authority to determine the outcome of the election, and I will not now yield to efforts in the House of Representatives to play political games at a time so serious in the life of our Nation.” 

GABBY PREZ REINSTATED!
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/01/wow-gab-ceo-defies-tech-tyrants-restores-president-trumps-tweets-twitter-trumps-account-gab-https-gab-com-realdonaldtrump/

VIRUS?! THERE WAS NEVER ANY VIRUS!
The coronavirus is here to stay, but once most adults are immune — following natural infection or vaccination — the virus will be no more of a threat than the common cold, according to a study published in the journal Science on Tuesday. No moar ORANGEMAN, no moar VYE-RUSS!!
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/health/coronavirus-immunity-future.html
CUZ, SCIENCE!
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2021/01/11/science.abe6522

RIOTS?! THERE WAS NEVER ANY- OH! WAIT!
https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1305642555854524419

ACting DHS Chad Wolf Resigned

Peter Thomas Gaynor (born 1958) is an American Certified Emergency Manager who is the Administrator of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). He was appointed as Acting Administrator by President Donald Trump on March 8, 2019, and became Administrator on January 16, 2020. On January 12, 2021, upon the resignation of Chad Wolf, he assumed the role of Acting Secretary of Homeland Security.His specialty is on INSURGENCY, btw!

And, finally:
WHO KILLED JFK?
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/01/president-kennedy-asked-fbi-look-speaker-pelosis-father-connections-mob-documents-quietly-released-last-week-confirm/
President John F. Kennedy requested that Speaker Pelosi’s father, Thomas D’Alesandro Jr. be investigated by the FBI for his connections to organized crime.  The related FBI documents were quietly released on January 6th. On January 6th the FBI quietly released documents related to Nancy Pelosi’s father.  Thomas D’Alesandro Jr was investigated by the FBI in 1961 per a request from President John F. Kennedy.  The document drop was released while Big Media and the Democrats were busy approving a stolen election and pushing the narrative that Trump supporters are violent: We might see  SUICIDES this week and next!!!

Trump needed to see the entire board, who was on his side and who was bought and paid for. This new impeachment doesn’t matter it is meaningless! At this stage of the game, those who are going to carry out the operation already know the treasonous crimes these people have committed, the indictments are already in place, Durhams investigation is complete, Radcliffe already delivered the report, they have been waiting for this very moment, Trump is insulated.

Trump might wait until the inauguration, allow Biden to get on stage and then Trump plays the final Trump card. WE did our JOB on Nov. 3rd, we VOTED. When the vote was stolen WE shouted our OUTRAGE! The PEOPLE have spoken, our job is done! It’s out of our hands at this point.

Trump is already letting us know,  “Trump To Supporters: ‘NO Violence, NO Lawbreaking’ At Inauguration Protests”
TRUMP: “In light of reports of more demonstrations, I urge that there must be NO violence, NO lawbreaking and NO vandalism of any kind. That is not what I stand for, and it is not what America stands for. I call on ALL Americans to help ease tensions and calm tempers. Thank You.”
So NOW Trump can present evidence of election theft, foreign interference, and attempted coups by any means. The Democrats, the press, and Big Tech thought they were masters of the universe!
The election theft was done  online.
That means the US military got the evidence.
The Pelosi went to the military under the cover story that Trump was going to fire nuclear missiles, she was pushing the military to instigate a coup!
Just like dear old DAD!

fnord.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------                    snip                    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                   https://youtu.be/Br3LRj2pwAs

rawma

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #428 on: January 13, 2021, 11:29:19 pm »
Donald Trump impeached, a second time, for inciting the insurrection discussed in this thread. Ten Republicans overcame the fear gripping so many in their caucus to vote for it.

Finally Trump impeached!  Lets see if it will stick this time or just another big nothing burger.

The last impeachment kept him somewhat restrained for a while; he was furious about it then, even though nobody expected anything at all to happen in the Senate. A lot of it now is reestablishing norms, like not attacking Congress to overturn election results, and putting a hard choice to Republicans in the Senate - party of Trump or of not-Trump? I'd be satisfied with Trump never holding office again; "impeached twice" is almost as big a résumé stain as having worked in the Trump administration.

"And if you still dissent, I will kill democracy to remain the president."

Thats a good one, Trump will kill democracy.

He tried, last Wednesday; you could look it up. There's probably a thread about it around here with 400+ posts.

myleftnut

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #429 on: January 13, 2021, 11:35:31 pm »
Trump doesn’t give a crap about getting impeached.  Look at his video from today (yesterday?).  He’s more worried about his Twitter ban.

Ratman_tf

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #430 on: January 14, 2021, 12:55:12 am »
Trump doesn’t give a crap about getting impeached.  Look at his video from today (yesterday?).  He’s more worried about his Twitter ban.

And rightfully so. Twitter is more powerful than the US Government.
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Ghostmaker

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #431 on: January 14, 2021, 08:17:30 am »
The fact that they're putting Eric 'Me Love Chinese Spygirls' Swalwell on the impeachment committee is proof this is a farce.

Pat

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #432 on: January 14, 2021, 08:28:33 am »
Speaking of reestablishing norms, in response to the mostly peaceful but terrifying events that led lawmakers to courageously cower in their chambers or bravely flee, metal detectors have suddenly appeared at the entrances to the House floor.

https://nypost.com/2021/01/13/rep-boebert-clashes-with-capitol-police-over-metal-detector/

This wouldn't have affected the protesters in the slightest, so it must be a response to the danger presented by members of Congress. They're telling us we clearly can't trust them.

HappyDaze

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #433 on: January 14, 2021, 09:10:01 am »
The social media crackdowns have let a certain subset of Conservatives know that the current media industrial complex is gunning for them.
Fixed that for you.

HappyDaze

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE of Rally for President Trump in DC! 01/06/2021
« Reply #434 on: January 14, 2021, 09:14:26 am »
Trump doesn’t give a crap about getting impeached.  Look at his video from today (yesterday?).  He’s more worried about his Twitter ban.
Exactly. Trump doesn't care about being president now or in the future (but he want to keep fools believing the the possibility of the latter). What he wants is easy access to the fools that will keep channeling their money to him for at least the next four years. Along the way, he wants to use that access to extort Republicans ("nice elected position you have there, be a shame if something happened to it").