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Author Topic: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel  (Read 26390 times)

oggsmash

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Re: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel
« Reply #60 on: May 17, 2021, 09:15:59 AM »
On Pundit's forum nobody is ever getting in trouble for turning a political thread into one about gaming.

And so, Ogg, how am I going to put this kind of combat in my game rules? Do I need a fumble chart where your pants might fall down? Special Drunken Slob Fight rules?

   You know, I have no idea how to emulate or simulate that sort of action.  I laughed so hard I think I was seeing black dots.  (after having a couple beers with the Russian army we are back outside as years of propaganda about sneaky Russians is harshly colliding with laughing and joking with what seem to be a bunch of Russian Grunts).  A friend of mine and some of the Russian sailors started armwrestling after this.  My buddy (I will call him "Rocky", as his voice and speech patterns sounded almost just like Rocky Balboa) starts arm wrestling some dude across the street from the bar we were at, at a "less dive" bar.  The owner of the place ran them off as he was concerned any such testosterone fueled contest were likely to end in fisticuffs. 
   
     The two come across the street and have a rather close arm wrestling match.  I do not know if all Russians are like these guys were, and maybe being in the military was part of their personalities.  The guys there in the Russian military would flip from complete calm to having shouting matches with one another that looked like they were about to fight, then they would smile, laugh and go back to complete calm.  I suppose it could have been masculine ribbing, but since I didnt speak Russian, and Russian to my ear sounds harsh even in a calm tone, it was interesting.  In any event, the fellow who had just arm wrestled Rocky asks me for a go, I am still fairly sober and not so interested but he keeps insisting.  At this point in my life I was a brick shithouse, had been lifting weights consistently since I was 13 and I had a good bit of functional strength, he was probably 20 pounds lighter, so I beat him badly.   His expression was classic, he looked like he had seen a car crash, then laughed heartily, and then started a conversation in broken English. 

      He wanted to know if I was on the "Big Boat" and I said I was, he tells me he is on an attack submarine and his ship can sink my ship.  I laugh and tell him, probably so.  He then decides to get into Russia's and the former USSR being able to "beat the USA" in a war.  I laugh (and at the time, I was a bit of a "questioner" and not much of a flag waver after spending time researching desert Storm, seeing how military spending worked (a bit of time as supply PO for my division and having to order some 1 dollar woodscrews kind of pissed me off) I was a bit put off by the USA in some ways.  BUT, its odd how jingoism can boil up when the "other side" is the one doing the critique)) and tell the guy he has to stand in line to eat and probably had to buy the Jorts (he was wearing some sweet cut off jeans) while in port because the USSR could not afford them.  To this he turned bright red, stood up suddenly - so I stand up...wondering if I had just sparked an international incident because we were about to scrap... starts to shout in Russian, and then just as suddenly the color fades, he picks up his beer while motioning I should do the same and says, "My Friend, maybe we talk no politics?"  I said sure, we clinked cans and drank.  He sat back down and started talking about his family, asking if I was cold where I lived etc...  At this point I am a little out of sorts, as reading body language is hard here because this guy had just gone from arguing a little, to giving me a fight to the the end que, back to we are best pals all in the space of 4-5 seconds. 

    Anyway, the fellow from earlier in the story comes over (ruskie, the tall blond guy who had been KO'd by dipshit)and is having a HEATED conversation with the russian sailor I have been talking to (dunno his name, but he was strong with the ginger and freckles, so I will call him RED).   Now I should mention it LOOKED heated to me, but given the quick turns these guys seemed to take from calm-aggressive-calm, I had no idea how heated it was or was not.  They both sat in plastic deck chairs, maybe a couple feet between them really getting into it.  Finally, Red reaches down and grabs ruskie's chair leg and tips him over backwards and dumping him onto the patio.   Ruskie looks REALLY pissed, and walks away.  Red comes over to me saying over and over, "No worry my friend, is my problem. He is f@ggot".   I have no idea if he was implying the guy was actually gay, or if he was just really pissed.  But he again wants to clink cans.  As we "toast" I see out of the corner of my eye Ruskie sprinting up with .... a plastic deck chair he has raised with the intent to hit Red (I do not think I could come up with a worse weapon to hit someone with if I tried, I guess ruskie was really drunk, or maybe just dumb, dont know) so I shout, "Watch out!!!"  The plastic-less-than-2-pound-chair attack went about as well as you would think it should.  Red shrugs it off and snatches the chair from ruskie.  Ruskie takes a stance of a fellow who is willing to fight, but is not too good at it, while Red fires a sharp 1-2 and lands a fantastic right on the point of ruskie's chin.  Ruskie falls like he has been shot with a rifle and is out cold, *while he is falling to the concrete*, Red steps forward and stomps ruskie's face *hard* just as he hits the ground.  There is a loud crack and I have some concerns as to both short term and long term health repercussions for ruskie.  I step forward and grab Red's arm telling him its over and he should stop.  He looks at me with a battle fury in his eyes, very tense for a split second, and again...becomes completely calm, says "Thank you my friend" and takes off across the street and disappears into an alley.  I look down and the pool of blood under ruskie's head is already 2 feet across and he is completely motionless, I step forward to take his pulse, and a couple of the Russian army guys and my pals from inside are with the bar owner.  The bar owner tells me not to touch him, and I better get inside or I will be the one going to jail. He says he has called the people to take care of it, which I assume he means an ambulance.  I do not know how Israeli jails are, but we had to watch "Midnight express" on the ships movie channel in loop mode for several days before the ship had pulled into Turkey a week or so before we got to Haifa.   My assumptions about the jails were on the side of caution (that I would be in a cell with dudes talking about genocide and suicide bombs) and I listen to the bar owner and the rest of these dudes and go inside.  I looked outside 5 minutes or so later wondering why the ambulance had not come and how the fellow was doing.  The pool of blood was rinsed to some degree, you could still see where it was, and ruskie was gone.  No idea what happened to him.  I look back around to the room and it was packed at this point, we had maybe 6 Americans in there, the house "ladies" and maybe 15 or so Russian soldiers and sailors and my buddy Rocky was making armwrestling challenges and the room looked like something out of an 80's Chuck Norris movie with the array of loud and raucous characters.

oggsmash

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Re: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel
« Reply #61 on: May 17, 2021, 09:18:38 AM »
So now Jew and Israeli are the same thing?

You are catching on.

But in any case, your money is not funding another country so you dont need to worry about that.
  Well thanks to a fucked up national debt and the fed, you are in a pure sense correct, MY MONEY just goes to paying the interest on the debt that the good old USA took out to fund all the other nations. 

Kyle Aaron

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Re: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel
« Reply #62 on: May 17, 2021, 09:30:21 AM »
In Australia the country has increased its deficit to widen subsidised childcare to families earning over $350k (not a typo). It has been observed that this will increase public debt so much that our children will end up paying for their own childcare.

That's alright, they can join the forces and go to foreign countries, hang out in sleazy bars with violent men and loose women. The rest of the time they will be in some dusty shithole, and dusty shitholes do not have ATMs, so they can save stacks of cash!

Perhaps we could solve this conflict by kidnapping the PM of Israel and the head of Hamas, finding a room somewhere and locking them in it disarmed, drunk and fighting it out with their pants around their ankles. Streamed to YouTube, of course. After this indignity nobody would take them seriously enough to be willing to go out and shoot at people.

And it'd be a good example to any other national leaders who get ambitious. Like if Biden wants to have a go at Iran, he and the Ayatollah... well, you get the picture.
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oggsmash

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Re: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel
« Reply #63 on: May 17, 2021, 09:36:24 AM »
In Australia the country has increased its deficit to widen subsidised childcare to families earning over $350k (not a typo). It has been observed that this will increase public debt so much that our children will end up paying for their own childcare.

That's alright, they can join the forces and go to foreign countries, hang out in sleazy bars with violent men and loose women. The rest of the time they will be in some dusty shithole, and dusty shitholes do not have ATMs, so they can save stacks of cash!

Perhaps we could solve this conflict by kidnapping the PM of Israel and the head of Hamas, finding a room somewhere and locking them in it disarmed, drunk and fighting it out with their pants around their ankles. Streamed to YouTube, of course. After this indignity nobody would take them seriously enough to be willing to go out and shoot at people.

And it'd be a good example to any other national leaders who get ambitious. Like if Biden wants to have a go at Iran, he and the Ayatollah... well, you get the picture.

  Oh there is certainly a problem that the people who start the fights, or set policy in place that is going to start a fight, never, ever have to feel the pain of their decisions.  Pain is part of learning, and wisdom is knowledge with scars.  I think we have waaaaay to many 'leaders' with zero scars.

  Your suggestion would the fastest track to Vitaly Klitscho's political career ever (which in Ukraine, last video of a debate in their government, it looked like they already decided to try an all out brawl, at least till they started bumping Vitaly).
« Last Edit: May 17, 2021, 09:38:29 AM by oggsmash »

GeekyBugle

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Re: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel
« Reply #64 on: May 17, 2021, 11:02:35 AM »
What parts of "Palestine" should be returned to the muslim terrorists Palestinians?

All of it.

So where should the Israelites go?

It's a rethoric question, I know you agree with Hamas.
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KingCheops

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Re: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel
« Reply #65 on: May 17, 2021, 11:02:47 AM »
I mean this whole fight seems a lot more polite than what was done to the civilians in England, France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium in order to stop the Nazis from killing Jews.  And that's only the Western Front.  Never mind Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

We could stop funding Israel and see what measures they take once their backs are to the walls.  I have a feeling the polite warnings before destroying buildings will be replaced with carpet bombing and nukes.  How many civilians die once Israel stops giving any crap about what America thinks?

The US pays North Korea and Israel to not nuke the shit out of all their neighbors.

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Re: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel
« Reply #66 on: May 17, 2021, 01:24:20 PM »
What parts of "Palestine" should be returned to the muslim terrorists Palestinians?

All of it.

So where should the Israelites go?

It's a rethoric question, I know you agree with Hamas.

i mean we gotta justify raising that refugee cap somehow
I don't want to play with you.

jhkim

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Re: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel
« Reply #67 on: May 17, 2021, 02:48:38 PM »

On gaming - I got a chance to play some with some gamers from Israel and some gamers from Palestine when I went to the Knutepunkt gaming conventions in Scandinavia. The one I got to talk to the most was an Israeli gamer, who was fine playing with Palestinian gamers. He felt that what was really missing was the human connection, and that if both sides would get to know the other as people, then progress would be made. The Palestinian gamers seemed cool, too - I interacted some at different points, but I never got into a serious conversation with them.

About the different characterizations --

I think recriminations about what happened seventy years ago isn't helpful. From the Palestinian point of view, they were conquered by the British rather than liberated from the Turks after WWI, and subsequently their land was stolen by waves of Jewish settlers under British rule, followed by declaration of a new country in their lands. Today, there have now been multiple generations of Palestinians who have grown up under Israeli military rule. Almost every Palestinian daily feels the results of the Israeli occupation - from the crippling economic effects of the blockade, to travel restrictions and more. The average Israeli feels almost no problems from the Palestinians. The death rate from terrorism is far less than Israel's own murder rate - and both of those are far less than the U.S. murder rate.




This is a false characterization of negotiations. In the most recent negotiations, Palestinians agreed to the 2002 "Road Map to Peace" - including recognizing Israel and rejecting terrorism, and that was rejected by Israel with an unworkable list of further demands. It is because of this rejection that Hamas came into power in Gaza.

Quote
1.
The Palestinians will dismantle the (PA's) security organizations and reform their structures;
The Palestinians must cease violence and incitement and educate for peace;
The Palestinians must complete the dismantling of Hamas and other militant groups and their infrastructure, and collect and destroy all illegal weapons;
No progress to Phase II before all above-mentioned conditions are fulfilled;
(Unlike the Palestinians) Israel is not obliged to cease violence and incitement against the other party, pursuant to the Roadmap.

2. No progress to the next phase before complete cessation of terror, violence and incitement. No timelines for carrying out the Roadmap.

3. Replacement and reform of the current leadership in the Palestinian Authority (including Yasser Arafat). Otherwise no progress to Phase II.

4. The process will be monitored by the United States (not the Quartet).

5. The character of the provisional Palestinian state will be determined through negotiations. The provisional state will be demilitarized, with provisional borders and "certain aspects of sovereignty", and subjected to Israeli control of the entry and exit of all persons and cargo, plus its airspace and electromagnetic spectrum (radio, television, internet, radar, etc.).

6. Declaration of Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state, as well as the waiver of any right of return of Palestinian refugees to Israel.

9. Prior to the final settlement talks in Phase III, no discussions about settlements, Jerusalem and borders would be allowed. Topics would be limited to a settlement freeze and illegal outposts.

10. No references other than the key provisions of United National Security Council resolutions 242 and 338. No reference to other peace initiatives (it is unclear if the Oslo Accords are included).

12. Withdrawal to the September 2000 lines will be conditional.

13. Israel is not bound to the Bertini Report with respect to improving Palestinian humanitarian issues.

Sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_map_for_peace
https://ecf.org.il/media_items/817


Shasarak

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Re: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel
« Reply #68 on: May 17, 2021, 04:30:05 PM »
So now Jew and Israeli are the same thing?

You are catching on.

But in any case, your money is not funding another country so you dont need to worry about that.
  Well thanks to a fucked up national debt and the fed, you are in a pure sense correct, MY MONEY just goes to paying the interest on the debt that the good old USA took out to fund all the other nations.

No one said that being the World Cops was going to be cheap.
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oggsmash

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Re: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel
« Reply #69 on: May 17, 2021, 06:36:27 PM »
So now Jew and Israeli are the same thing?

You are catching on.

But in any case, your money is not funding another country so you dont need to worry about that.
  Well thanks to a fucked up national debt and the fed, you are in a pure sense correct, MY MONEY just goes to paying the interest on the debt that the good old USA took out to fund all the other nations.

No one said that being the World Cops was going to be cheap.

  Guess what else they didnt say?  I had to pay for the world cops.  Just did it.

jhkim

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Re: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel
« Reply #70 on: May 17, 2021, 07:00:09 PM »
  Well thanks to a fucked up national debt and the fed, you are in a pure sense correct, MY MONEY just goes to paying the interest on the debt that the good old USA took out to fund all the other nations.

No one said that being the World Cops was going to be cheap.

I don't think being World Police has done any good for the average American, or for the world at large.

Our interventions in the Middle East and Latin America since the end of the Cold War don't seem to be making the world safer and more stable, or making other countries more positive towards us. Mostly it just seems to generate a lot of money for bomb manufacturers.

I support foreign intervention with a clear mandate and mission, but those are rare. Specifically, I think the Korean War and the first Gulf War were clear - one country invaded another, and an international alliance stops and pushes back the invasion.

Shasarak

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Re: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel
« Reply #71 on: May 17, 2021, 07:10:56 PM »
  Guess what else they didnt say?  I had to pay for the world cops.  Just did it.

You wanted to be paid, right?

Why should everyone else have to do it for free.
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Shasarak

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Re: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel
« Reply #72 on: May 17, 2021, 07:13:52 PM »
  Well thanks to a fucked up national debt and the fed, you are in a pure sense correct, MY MONEY just goes to paying the interest on the debt that the good old USA took out to fund all the other nations.

No one said that being the World Cops was going to be cheap.

I don't think being World Police has done any good for the average American, or for the world at large.

Our interventions in the Middle East and Latin America since the end of the Cold War don't seem to be making the world safer and more stable, or making other countries more positive towards us. Mostly it just seems to generate a lot of money for bomb manufacturers.

I support foreign intervention with a clear mandate and mission, but those are rare. Specifically, I think the Korean War and the first Gulf War were clear - one country invaded another, and an international alliance stops and pushes back the invasion.

I assume that you have evidence of the deaths by war increasing from WW2 until now.  I mean since the US being World Police is not good for the world at large.
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look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

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Re: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel
« Reply #73 on: May 17, 2021, 07:48:51 PM »
  Well thanks to a fucked up national debt and the fed, you are in a pure sense correct, MY MONEY just goes to paying the interest on the debt that the good old USA took out to fund all the other nations.

No one said that being the World Cops was going to be cheap.

I don't think being World Police has done any good for the average American, or for the world at large.

Our interventions in the Middle East and Latin America since the end of the Cold War don't seem to be making the world safer and more stable, or making other countries more positive towards us. Mostly it just seems to generate a lot of money for bomb manufacturers.

I support foreign intervention with a clear mandate and mission, but those are rare. Specifically, I think the Korean War and the first Gulf War were clear - one country invaded another, and an international alliance stops and pushes back the invasion.

I assume that you have evidence of the deaths by war increasing from WW2 until now.  I mean since the US being World Police is not good for the world at large.
That's less world policing and more mesopredator-state suppression by an apex predator-state.

jhkim

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Re: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel
« Reply #74 on: May 17, 2021, 08:02:12 PM »
I don't think being World Police has done any good for the average American, or for the world at large.

Our interventions in the Middle East and Latin America since the end of the Cold War don't seem to be making the world safer and more stable, or making other countries more positive towards us. Mostly it just seems to generate a lot of money for bomb manufacturers.

I support foreign intervention with a clear mandate and mission, but those are rare. Specifically, I think the Korean War and the first Gulf War were clear - one country invaded another, and an international alliance stops and pushes back the invasion.

I assume that you have evidence of the deaths by war increasing from WW2 until now.  I mean since the US being World Police is not good for the world at large.

That doesn't logically follow. Yes, war deaths have decreased since the peak deaths of WW2 - but that doesn't mean that all of the U.S.'s wars are responsible for the decrease. This is like presidents' taking credit for all the economy, when the economy changes regardless of presidential action -- and even moreso since the U.S. is only one slice of the world.

I think the U.S. has done some good by opposing international aggression, and we were right to stand against invasions by the Soviets and others. But a lot of our other wars did not increase stability.