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Author Topic: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel  (Read 6075 times)

Kyle Aaron

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Re: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2021, 08:52:36 PM »
Could it be that if a conflict has been going for half a century or more that there are no simple easy solutions someone can cover in a forum post or political speech to supporters?

oggsmash

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Re: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2021, 09:16:25 PM »
Could it be that if a conflict has been going for half a century or more that there are no simple easy solutions someone can cover in a forum post or political speech to supporters?

   I think that conflict overall has a MUCH longer and deeper root than 50 years.  I agree that there is no solution on a forum or speech.  I suspect the solution to it will be when one side or the other is completely destroyed, and honestly I think both sides would willingly do so if it were possible to do so.  I think both sides of the conflict completely dehumanize their rivals and really only have limits imposed by reality (Israel can not wipe them out or they would lose their support of much larger, much more powerful nations where they source their military tech and a great deal of training, and Palastine can not in any way wipe out Israel, though I have no doubts their supporters in some surrounding nations would attempt it if they would not have to deal with the repercussions of having Israel's bodyguard come rolling in and level their cities).

    Once there is a significant world power shift, ie the USA becomes no longer a real world power, and the middle east catches up enough in military tech, I am pretty sure they are going to go ahead and get that Armageddon kicked off.  I guess it is possible Russia can stave off that inevitability for a good long while as well,  but I do think once the USA is no longer Middle East Security inc.  shit will hit the fan.

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Re: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2021, 09:43:48 PM »
Could it be that if a conflict has been going for half a century or more that there are no simple easy solutions someone can cover in a forum post or political speech to supporters?

Flavius Josephus wrote about similar bullshit happening in Judea in the first century.  It is not a place the sensible man chooses to fight in.
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Mjollnir

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Re: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2021, 09:44:36 PM »
Everyone calling Hamas terrorists for fighting against the Zionist entity would vocally support a Jewish group that did the exact same thing.

"Israel" is founded on terrorism, the bombing of the King David hotel is one example. That particular terrorist attack, which killed 91 people, was committed by the Irgun, of which Menachim Begin, who went on to become prime minister of Israel, was a prominent leader.

Terrorist leader and Israeli prime minister Begin was a member of the exact same party as current Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Likud.

The reason "Israel" is showered with infinite financial, media, military, and diplomatic support from the US is that Palestinian-Americans don't have anything comparable to the influence and power over American institutions that their counterparts do.

Shasarak

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Re: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2021, 09:48:11 PM »
I say let them fight it out and how ever it goes, it goes.

They did that already, how many times now, and yet here we are.
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Shasarak

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Re: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2021, 09:51:10 PM »
Everyone calling Hamas terrorists for fighting against the Zionist entity would vocally support a Jewish group that did the exact same thing.

Can you show me the Zionist entity that does the same thing as Hamas?

Or are we talking about theoreticals here?
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oggsmash

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Re: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2021, 09:53:43 PM »
I say let them fight it out and how ever it goes, it goes.

They did that already, how many times now, and yet here we are.

  Yes, but never without MASSIVE economic and military support from the USA.  I think lets have them give it a try without that.   I suspect Palastine will suddenly have some very willing allies helping them out.  But you are mistaken if you think i dont know that Israel comes out on top of this latest round of poo flinging.  I just think down the road they can determine their own fates without our Mastercard going to their betterment.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2021, 09:55:14 PM by oggsmash »

Shasarak

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Re: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2021, 11:20:04 PM »
I say let them fight it out and how ever it goes, it goes.

They did that already, how many times now, and yet here we are.

  Yes, but never without MASSIVE economic and military support from the USA.  I think lets have them give it a try without that.   I suspect Palastine will suddenly have some very willing allies helping them out.  But you are mistaken if you think i dont know that Israel comes out on top of this latest round of poo flinging.  I just think down the road they can determine their own fates without our Mastercard going to their betterment.

You talk about how the US funds Israel but somehow fail to mention every other country in the world that the US is also funding.

At least the money being poured in Israel is supporting a winner for once.
There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

Ratman_tf

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Re: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2021, 12:25:31 AM »
I will say it was awesome watching the Iron Dome in action. That thing is neat.
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Kyle Aaron

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Re: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2021, 12:38:08 AM »
Flavius Josephus wrote about similar bullshit happening in Judea in the first century.
As you get closer to the equator, there's more conflict. And crime and domestic violence go down in winter and up in summer. Too much sun on their heads makes people crazy. That's why there's no civil war in Sweden, it's too fucking cold to go out and shoot people.

All we need is another ice age and people will all become civilised.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2021, 12:40:39 AM by Kyle Aaron »

moonsweeper

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Re: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2021, 12:39:34 AM »
I think there's a fundamental error here of saying that everyone has to be either pro-Netanyahu or pro-Hamas.

I liken it to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in the 1980s. Because they were anti-Soviet, American conservatives cheered the mujahideen including Osama Bin Laden. In film, Rambo was shown teaming up with the heroic mujahideen -- and James Bond did too. In the real world, Osama Bin Laden and his forces were given CIA training and funding.

But it was bullshit. Osama Bin Laden and the mujahideen were brave and dedicated, but they weren't actually a cause to cheer -- and giving them training and support was a mistake. The Soviet occupation was wrong, but not everyone who fought against it were positive heroes.

--

I feel similarly about Israel and Palestine. I feel the Israeli occupation of Palestine is wrong, but that doesn't mean that I support Hamas.

Anyone who actually paid attention during all of the Oliver North testimony knew how dangerous bin Laden was...but that got brushed under the rug in order to score political points during the hearings.
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jeff37923

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Re: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2021, 01:22:12 AM »
   Well, they are "terrorists" and I think we can say the Boston Tea Party was an act of terrorism. 

Every time this is claimed by someone, I can tell that person has no grasp of history or any understanding of the Boston Tea Party.

Mjollnir

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Re: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2021, 02:12:36 AM »
Everyone calling Hamas terrorists for fighting against the Zionist entity would vocally support a Jewish group that did the exact same thing.

Can you show me the Zionist entity that does the same thing as Hamas?

Or are we talking about theoreticals here?

I meant it as a general statement, but there are innumerable examples of Israel/zionist/jewish groups engaging in comparable acts of  immoral and/or immoral behavior. That's why I used the King David hotel bombing as an example. The fundamental difference isn't the particulars of this bombing or that attack, it's the fact that the Israeli side has a lock on instuitutions and media in the US resulting in much greater influence over policy and public opinion compared to that of the Palestinians.

Take yourself out of arguing with someone on the internet mode, and just imagine "militant group attacks foreign occupying regime". Is this justifiable? Is it justifiable if the militant group is Jewish and the occupying regime is British? Is it justifiable if the militant group is Palestinian and the regime is Jewish? Is your knee-jerk response the same in both cases? If not, why not? How much has media shaped your perceptions? Who controls that media and where do their loyalties lay?

Mjollnir

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Re: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2021, 02:16:08 AM »
That's why there's no civil war in Sweden, it's too fucking cold to go out and shoot people.

Then why is this an entry on wikipedia?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Sweden
« Last Edit: May 16, 2021, 02:17:51 AM by Mjollnir »

Ratman_tf

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Re: Leftists Support Terrorist Hamas Against Israel
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2021, 02:53:07 AM »
Everyone calling Hamas terrorists for fighting against the Zionist entity would vocally support a Jewish group that did the exact same thing.

Can you show me the Zionist entity that does the same thing as Hamas?

Or are we talking about theoreticals here?

I meant it as a general statement, but there are innumerable examples of Israel/zionist/jewish groups engaging in comparable acts of  immoral and/or immoral behavior. That's why I used the King David hotel bombing as an example. The fundamental difference isn't the particulars of this bombing or that attack, it's the fact that the Israeli side has a lock on instuitutions and media in the US resulting in much greater influence over policy and public opinion compared to that of the Palestinians.

About half of the media and institutions I've heard seem sympathetic to Palestine and Hamas, and critical of Isreal. But then I actually seek out "conservative" commentary, to get another perspective. I don't know how many people go beyond their local newscast or Facebook headline.

https://www.teenvogue.com/story/violence-jerusalem-evictions-palestinians
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-palestinians-gaza-violence-flaring-may-2021/
https://www.reuters.com/world/death-toll-rises-violence-rocks-gaza-israel-west-bank-2021-05-14/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/aoc-palestinian-israel-biden-policy-b1847382.html
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