This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
NOTICE: Some online security services are reporting that information for a limited number of users from this site is for sale on the "dark web." As of right now, there is no direct evidence of this, but change your password just to be safe.
The RPGPundit's Own Forum Rules
This part of the site is controlled by the RPGPundit. This is where he discusses topics that he finds interesting. You may post here, but understand that there are limits. The RPGPundit can shut down any thread, topic of discussion, or user in a thread at his pleasure. This part of the site is essentially his house, so keep that in mind. Note that this is the only part of the site where political discussion is permitted, but is regulated by the RPGPundit.

Author Topic: Klaus Schwab has plans for you  (Read 5491 times)

KindaMeh

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • K
  • Posts: 143
Re: Klaus Schwab has plans for you
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2022, 01:58:28 PM »
Wait, was my second paragraph actually originally an accurate assessment to some extent of where you were coming from ie it is stupidity inherently to try theorizing and discussing with respect to unregulated capitalism, then? Legit question, I may be being uncharitable, and I don’t want to roll back out a paragraph I thought was probably misapplied and ask for your response to it if it would be a misrepresentation of your position or an attack piece.
Quote from: Part of that second paragraph
I think unregulated markets are something politicians sometimes do promote as a possible solution
You're really internalized this unregulated capitalism nonsense, haven't you?

No politician who has held any real position of power anywhere has ever promoted unregulated markets.

The difference is typically between massively increasing the increasing the amount of a regulation in an massively regulated market, and between slightly less massively increasing the amount of regulation in a massively regulated market. Once a generation or so, there might be a minor trimming of some regulations in a very narrow part of the market, but that's incredibly rare.

So why all this talk about unregulated markets? It's a smokescreen and an attack vector, designed to conceal the real alternatives by strawmanning any possible objections to massive regulation growth on top of massive regulation growth as a ridiculous extreme. It's a way of completely derailing any serious discussion of the issue, and supporting the endless growth of the state.

I disagree that it’s inherently bad to talk about or theorize about, especially within limited market contexts. Though I’ll admit that maybe my views on its current prevalence were distorted, and that this is what authoritarians to skme degree want. If nothing else as noted in my second paragraph of my last post I still feel like it has been advocated in specific areas like trade, healthcare, and the like. And is not always wrong within said specific contexts, though not from my perspective in say trade. Likewise, I’m not an authoritarian, do support deregulation within most, I think all, of the contexts you had mentioned, and use my belief that we should intervene mostly just with market failures as a way to ground my understanding of what should be done within the markets. I likewise use economic theoreticals like no regulation within an industry or wherever, including the market more broadly, as a comparison point that helps ground my understanding of what should probably be done, which is sometimes a return to lack of regulation within context (unregulated capitalism, at least contextually). I don’t think that’s morally wrong or unreasonable, and even if it were somewhat stupid I still could understand people doing it and wouldn’t want to demonize that too much. I feel like a lot of what I’ve said went right past you or isn’t being referenced in your posts, including the thread topic related stuff about Schwab, (not that you have an obligation to reply to it, but I was genuinely interested in what you and other people thought on those comments) though you may perhaps feel the same to some degree if I've been misinterpreting your positions or misunderstanding your basic arguments. If they didn't land and get interpreted properly in my brain space, I assure you that was not my intent. I may have stuck a nerve on this particular topic, too, and done a bad job presenting my beliefs and position more broadly. That’s on me. Still, I don’t think we’re as far apart as one might think from a practical reform perspective, if at all. I think I’ve done a poor job explaining my thoughts on that, but I also think it’s true.
Breaking up your blocks into concise paragraphs would make then far easier to read.
To go a little further, KindaMeh, you seem to respond with walls of words. Which is fine and sometimes necessary if you're sharing a complex and coherent thought that requires significant development. But your walls of words aren't delving deep into a particular topic. They're hitting many topics, often very superficially. To address each of those points requires a separate lengthy essay, and when I gave you one, you didn't really address what I said. Instead, you drew a dozen different conclusions from what I said, none of which I actually believe, and responded to those instead. And when I tried to refocus the conversation on what I said, because there's clearly a fundamental disconnect in basic communication, you complained that I didn't respond to all your scattered points.

I'm not particularly blaming you. This happens all the time, and it's one of reasons I loathe partisanship and sound-bite thinking. Because partisans almost universally seem to create an image in their mind of the Enemy. This is invariably a highly distorted caricature, and assumes the Enemy is monolithic. Even worse, whenever the partisan hears even the shade of a conflicting opinion, the person expressing it is immediately classified as the Enemy, and assumed to possess all the traits and beliefs that have been ascribed to that mental construct. For those who are victims of this type of partisanship, the results can be very surreal, because they're suddenly being attacked for things they never said, and then they're told they're lying when they say they don't believe any of that.

Sound-bite thinking is the habit of jamming a horde of unrelated, short statements of position into a single breathless post or other communication. The statements of position are typically only loosely related, and each is underpinned by a complex web of debatable and often very dubious assumptions, but the whole is always presented as a clear and coherent position based on an unimpeachable bedrock of logic. It's really hard to address posts of that nature, because each separate claim needs to be deconstructed and then addressed separately. And it's usually pointless to do so, because the sound-biter will typically respond with either a vacant and insulting dismissal or another parcel of random soundbites.

You seem to be trying to engage in an honest discussion, and I don't think you're a diehard partisan. But you clearly have some established assumptions about what other people believe, which you're imposing on me. That makes it hard to talk, because it means my only response to all your posts is "I didn't say that". You do have some tendencies toward sound-bite thinking  (though you're nowhere as bad as Battlemaster), and you're packing a lot of only loosely related things into each post. That makes it very hard to respond, because I have fundamental differences not just with the long list of things you're saying, but with the underlying assumptions on which they're built. Which takes a long time to unpack, and as I noted, seems fruitless when there's an underlying miscommunication.

I'm not sure what the solution is. I keep trying to engage in discussions that are more than just virtue signaling via aphorisms, but the result has been misery and endless vicious attacks, and I suspect it's a futile quest. The format of the internet rewards brief replies and repetition, and punishes anything longer than a Tweet; and the increased animosity in the internecine squabbles incentivizes skimming vast volumes of content for markers or signals that indicate Friend or Foe, and defending or attacking based on that classification, even if the methods used are dishonest or completely irrational.

Well, this is admittedly depressing to read, though perhaps pretty accurate. For what it's worth I do not classify you to my mind as an Enemy or Foe, and had originally thought we were a lot closer on opinions than it sounds like we actually are for specific policy and base assumptions (which was itself a bit of another error in hearing on my part, but yeah). I apologize if it felt that way or if I contributed to the misery and attacks you feel have been (and probably are) integral to the complex Internet discussion experience. I generally try to reign in my desire to be right and be judgemental/assumptive over my desire to understand and learn, though I am not always successful.

I think like you said I can sometimes make bad assumptions about what people are saying or believe, and in part that may admittedly be informed by soundbite thinking, or at least a predisposition towards being primed to hear and react to specific things, and relate them to other topics, whether or not they were the point or even properly there to begin with.

Relating to word walls and how they should probably properly be used for "sharing a complex and coherent thought that requires significant development", I feel like though I try to and generally am convinced in the moment I am doing that. But unfortunately more often I think in terms that wander into interconnected assumptions and are disorganized, as noted with soundbite thinking, and this informs the nature of my postings being not so great in that sense. Can try to be more specific and limited in my points so as not to barrage people and make debate nonviable, we'll see how that goes.

 I also appreciate that you consider me to be trying to engage in honest discussion, that means a lot more than you know. If it makes you a bit more hopeful, I think everyone is still learning how to be better at that no matter their age, and I don't think it's a given that politics will stay as divided and undiscussable in complex and solid terms forever. Heck, who knows what even I may be capable of by say even middle age or my thirties, I may not stay this incompetent or think that way indefinitely so long as I make an active effort towards learning. I feel like I get more information and exposure from engaging with folks like you on the internet than I would not interacting, have learned some things over the past few days from most everyone on the forum despite myself, and I think we need informed posters like you more than even you know, even though it may feel like grinding your head against a cheese grater sometimes.


Shasarak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4032
Re: Klaus Schwab has plans for you
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2022, 05:01:05 PM »
This is what happens under unregulated capitalism, some people win big and start developing god complexes. Usually the people born on third base and think they hit a triple.

Thats not real capitalism.


No true scottsman much?

Pfft, scotsman.  Would they even know capitalism?
Who da Drow?  U da drow! - hedgehobbit

There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

Battlemaster

  • BANNED
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 338
  • I am a Bill Maher Democrat.
Re: Klaus Schwab has plans for you
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2022, 05:23:47 AM »
When I said unfettered capitalism I meant letting rich people do whatever the fuck they want with no controls. That's what we have in America now.
Fuck the fascist right and the fascist left.

Chris24601

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • C
  • Posts: 2379
Re: Klaus Schwab has plans for you
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2022, 09:37:23 AM »
When I said unfettered capitalism I meant letting rich people do whatever the fuck they want with no controls. That's what we have in America now.
For your edification then, the proper term for what you describe is Cronyism; where the wealthy use their wealth to sway the government into giving them sweetheart deals and not pursue justice for any crimes they commit.

Cronyism or it’s more robust brother, the Public-Private Partnership (i.e. Fascism; the State and Big Business working hand in hand) are where we presently sit; with less than half a dozen corporations owning over 90% of our media and massive banks and investment firms (Blackrock, Vanguard, etc.) buying up real estate and smaller independent businesses to further enrich themselves while donating billions via legitimate and illegitimate donations.

Do you really think Hunter Biden’s paintings are worth $250k each? Or that he did even an ounce of work for the paychecks he pulled in on the board of Burisma? Take a look at who’s on many of these boards and you’ll find siblings, spouses and longtime friends of politicians raking in money from the crony capitalists.

Why is our middle class struggling? It’s not because of capitalism… it’s because the cronyists… in a desire for ever more personal wealth got the government to stop backing fair trade (the principle where you use various means to ensure your workers aren’t being undersold by slave labor) for free trade (that there is no moral component to trade, just whatever is cheapest is best).

For the record, that would largely be started by the first President Bush, but would be continued via NAFTA under Bill Clinton and further expansions of trade with China under W. Bush, Obama and now Biden. It’s been a bipartisan elitist screwing of the middle class for decades.

One of the reasons President Trump is still incredibly popular in the American Midwest and South is because he actually first talked and then actually followed through on the talk of returning America to fair trade, ending NAFTA and imposing tariffs on Chinese slave labor products so the middle class Americans could actually complete on a level playing field. It was the first time in decades since the middle class wasn’t losing ground in the war between wage growth and inflation.

Your fight isn’t with Capitalism, it is with the Cronyism that masks itself as Capitalism.

Battlemaster

  • BANNED
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 338
  • I am a Bill Maher Democrat.
Re: Klaus Schwab has plans for you
« Reply #34 on: June 28, 2022, 10:50:43 AM »
Chris I respect you,  so let me  point out that cronyism isn't a bug in American capitalism AS IT STANDS, it's a feature.

After the stock market crash of 1929,  a shit ton of regulations were out in place on banks and stock markets.


Notice how it ran OK for like. 50 years?

Then in 1980 a popular old actor and his manipulative wife got into the white house because president Carter wanted to end American depndance on Muslim controlled oil supplies.  Ever hear of the Arab oil embargo of 1973? Big oil didn't want America off the oil spike, too profitable, and with the memory of the embargo and early concerns about pollution,  there were some thoughts that it might by good to get off the oil habit.

So, Carter launched an energy alternative program which big oil didn't want. So we had an economic downturn and the leveraging of the Iranian crisis to put Reagan in office.  His first afts were to quietky strangle the energy program in it's crib and launch an all out assault on banking and wall street regulations.

For 8 years banks and wall street put one bill after another on his desk to eliminate the regulations that protected America from another economic disaster like '29.

Just after Nancy lead ronny out of the white house what happened? The SnL crisis and bailout. Unregulated SnLs just plain looted banks,  taking hundreds of billions  of dollars right out of people's accounts, and the taxpayers were forced to replace it.  It was directly caused by Reagan's deregulation jyhad.

Since then the richest have been simply taking unlimited sums of money from the American people as a whole, aided by constant erosion of regulations.  Agencies meant to control big biz are ran by people who work for big biz appointed by Republican presidents.

Look at some of trump's apponointees.

What you call cronyism is a product of unregulated capitalism.

Putin has done the same thing,  and found out his military has been  crippled by his cronies looting it.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2022, 10:56:34 AM by Battlemaster »
Fuck the fascist right and the fascist left.

Ghostmaker

  • Chlorine trifluoride
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3511
Re: Klaus Schwab has plans for you
« Reply #35 on: June 28, 2022, 11:05:01 AM »
Chris I respect you,  so let me  point out that cronyism isn't a bug in American capitalism AS IT STANDS, it's a feature.

After the stock market crash of 1929,  a shit ton of regulations were out in place on banks and stock markets.


Notice how it ran OK for like. 50 years?

Then in 1980 a popular old actor and his manipulative wife got into the white house because president Carter wanted to end American depndance on Muslim controlled oil supplies.  Ever hear of the Arab oil embargo of 1973? Big oil didn't want America off the oil spike, too profitable, and with the memory of the embargo and early concerns about pollution,  there were some thoughts that it might by good to get off the oil habit.

So, Carter launched an energy alternative program which big oil didn't want. So we had an economic downturn and the leveraging of the Iranian crisis to put Reagan in office.  His first afts were to quietky strangle the energy program in it's crib and launch an all out assault on banking and wall street regulations.

For 8 years banks and wall street put one bill after another on his desk to eliminate the regulations that protected America from another economic disaster like '29.

Just after Nancy lead ronny out of the white house what happened? The SnL crisis and bailout. Unregulated SnLs just plain looted banks,  taking hundreds of billions  of dollars right out of people's accounts, and the taxpayers were forced to replace it.  It was directly caused by Reagan's deregulation jyhad.

Since then the richest have been simply taking unlimited sums of money from the American people as a whole, aided by constant erosion of regulations.  Agencies meant to control big biz are ran by people who work for big biz appointed by Republican presidents.

Look at some of trump's apponointees.

What you call cronyism is a product of unregulated capitalism.

Putin has done the same thing,  and found out his military has been  crippled by his cronies looting it.
This is interesting fanfiction. Have you considered collaborating with other alt-history writers, like Turtledove?

Battlemaster

  • BANNED
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 338
  • I am a Bill Maher Democrat.
Re: Klaus Schwab has plans for you
« Reply #36 on: June 28, 2022, 01:06:58 PM »
Chris I respect you,  so let me  point out that cronyism isn't a bug in American capitalism AS IT STANDS, it's a feature.

After the stock market crash of 1929,  a shit ton of regulations were out in place on banks and stock markets.


Notice how it ran OK for like. 50 years?

Then in 1980 a popular old actor and his manipulative wife got into the white house because president Carter wanted to end American depndance on Muslim controlled oil supplies.  Ever hear of the Arab oil embargo of 1973? Big oil didn't want America off the oil spike, too profitable, and with the memory of the embargo and early concerns about pollution,  there were some thoughts that it might by good to get off the oil habit.

So, Carter launched an energy alternative program which big oil didn't want. So we had an economic downturn and the leveraging of the Iranian crisis to put Reagan in office.  His first afts were to quietky strangle the energy program in it's crib and launch an all out assault on banking and wall street regulations.

For 8 years banks and wall street put one bill after another on his desk to eliminate the regulations that protected America from another economic disaster like '29.

Just after Nancy lead ronny out of the white house what happened? The SnL crisis and bailout. Unregulated SnLs just plain looted banks,  taking hundreds of billions  of dollars right out of people's accounts, and the taxpayers were forced to replace it.  It was directly caused by Reagan's deregulation jyhad.

Since then the richest have been simply taking unlimited sums of money from the American people as a whole, aided by constant erosion of regulations.  Agencies meant to control big biz are ran by people who work for big biz appointed by Republican presidents.

Look at some of trump's apponointees.

What you call cronyism is a product of unregulated capitalism.

Putin has done the same thing,  and found out his military has been  crippled by his cronies looting it.
This is interesting fanfiction. Have you considered collaborating with other alt-history writers, like Turtledove?

Have you ever considered presenting facts to support your views instead of just snark?  I know it takes more effort to find and cite facts than just snarkng,  considering I presented facts to backup my views.  But if your views are valid it can be done with some effort. I know from experince.
Fuck the fascist right and the fascist left.

Battlemaster

  • BANNED
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 338
  • I am a Bill Maher Democrat.
Re: Klaus Schwab has plans for you
« Reply #37 on: June 28, 2022, 01:08:25 PM »
When I said unfettered capitalism I meant letting rich people do whatever the fuck they want with no controls. That's what we have in America now.
For your edification then, the proper term for what you describe is Cronyism; where the wealthy use their wealth to sway the government into giving them sweetheart deals and not pursue justice for any crimes they commit.

Cronyism or it’s more robust brother, the Public-Private Partnership (i.e. Fascism; the State and Big Business working hand in hand) are where we presently sit; with less than half a dozen corporations owning over 90% of our media and massive banks and investment firms (Blackrock, Vanguard, etc.) buying up real estate and smaller independent businesses to further enrich themselves while donating billions via legitimate and illegitimate donations.

Do you really think Hunter Biden’s paintings are worth $250k each? Or that he did even an ounce of work for the paychecks he pulled in on the board of Burisma? Take a look at who’s on many of these boards and you’ll find siblings, spouses and longtime friends of politicians raking in money from the crony capitalists.

Why is our middle class struggling? It’s not because of capitalism… it’s because the cronyists… in a desire for ever more personal wealth got the government to stop backing fair trade (the principle where you use various means to ensure your workers aren’t being undersold by slave labor) for free trade (that there is no moral component to trade, just whatever is cheapest is best).

For the record, that would largely be started by the first President Bush, but would be continued via NAFTA under Bill Clinton and further expansions of trade with China under W. Bush, Obama and now Biden. It’s been a bipartisan elitist screwing of the middle class for decades.

One of the reasons President Trump is still incredibly popular in the American Midwest and South is because he actually first talked and then actually followed through on the talk of returning America to fair trade, ending NAFTA and imposing tariffs on Chinese slave labor products so the middle class Americans could actually complete on a level playing field. It was the first time in decades since the middle class wasn’t losing ground in the war between wage growth and inflation.

Your fight isn’t with Capitalism, it is with the Cronyism that masks itself as Capitalism.

If you're interested in cronyism, here's a video you may find educational. Have you heard the term siloviki?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j6yA7Ge0EmY
Fuck the fascist right and the fascist left.

Ghostmaker

  • Chlorine trifluoride
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3511
Re: Klaus Schwab has plans for you
« Reply #38 on: June 28, 2022, 01:23:19 PM »
Chris I respect you,  so let me  point out that cronyism isn't a bug in American capitalism AS IT STANDS, it's a feature.

After the stock market crash of 1929,  a shit ton of regulations were out in place on banks and stock markets.


Notice how it ran OK for like. 50 years?

Then in 1980 a popular old actor and his manipulative wife got into the white house because president Carter wanted to end American depndance on Muslim controlled oil supplies.  Ever hear of the Arab oil embargo of 1973? Big oil didn't want America off the oil spike, too profitable, and with the memory of the embargo and early concerns about pollution,  there were some thoughts that it might by good to get off the oil habit.

So, Carter launched an energy alternative program which big oil didn't want. So we had an economic downturn and the leveraging of the Iranian crisis to put Reagan in office.  His first afts were to quietky strangle the energy program in it's crib and launch an all out assault on banking and wall street regulations.

For 8 years banks and wall street put one bill after another on his desk to eliminate the regulations that protected America from another economic disaster like '29.

Just after Nancy lead ronny out of the white house what happened? The SnL crisis and bailout. Unregulated SnLs just plain looted banks,  taking hundreds of billions  of dollars right out of people's accounts, and the taxpayers were forced to replace it.  It was directly caused by Reagan's deregulation jyhad.

Since then the richest have been simply taking unlimited sums of money from the American people as a whole, aided by constant erosion of regulations.  Agencies meant to control big biz are ran by people who work for big biz appointed by Republican presidents.

Look at some of trump's apponointees.

What you call cronyism is a product of unregulated capitalism.

Putin has done the same thing,  and found out his military has been  crippled by his cronies looting it.
This is interesting fanfiction. Have you considered collaborating with other alt-history writers, like Turtledove?

Have you ever considered presenting facts to support your views instead of just snark?  I know it takes more effort to find and cite facts than just snarkng,  considering I presented facts to backup my views.  But if your views are valid it can be done with some effort. I know from experince.
Why bother? Nothing I say will persuade you. You are just as much a religious zealot as the wokeists.

Thomas Sowell said it best, when he was asked what he would say to a modern leftist: 'Goodbye'.

Shasarak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4032
Re: Klaus Schwab has plans for you
« Reply #39 on: June 28, 2022, 04:58:32 PM »
Chris I respect you,  so let me  point out that cronyism isn't a bug in American capitalism AS IT STANDS, it's a feature.

After the stock market crash of 1929,  a shit ton of regulations were out in place on banks and stock markets.


Notice how it ran OK for like. 50 years?

It went ok except for the Great Depression.

But otherwise ok
Who da Drow?  U da drow! - hedgehobbit

There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

Pat

  • BANNED
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 5252
  • Rats do 0 damage
Re: Klaus Schwab has plans for you
« Reply #40 on: June 28, 2022, 05:19:19 PM »
Chris I respect you,  so let me  point out that cronyism isn't a bug in American capitalism AS IT STANDS, it's a feature.

After the stock market crash of 1929,  a shit ton of regulations were out in place on banks and stock markets.


Notice how it ran OK for like. 50 years?

Then in 1980 a popular old actor and his manipulative wife got into the white house because president Carter wanted to end American depndance on Muslim controlled oil supplies.  Ever hear of the Arab oil embargo of 1973? Big oil didn't want America off the oil spike, too profitable, and with the memory of the embargo and early concerns about pollution,  there were some thoughts that it might by good to get off the oil habit.

So, Carter launched an energy alternative program which big oil didn't want. So we had an economic downturn and the leveraging of the Iranian crisis to put Reagan in office.  His first afts were to quietky strangle the energy program in it's crib and launch an all out assault on banking and wall street regulations.

For 8 years banks and wall street put one bill after another on his desk to eliminate the regulations that protected America from another economic disaster like '29.

Just after Nancy lead ronny out of the white house what happened? The SnL crisis and bailout. Unregulated SnLs just plain looted banks,  taking hundreds of billions  of dollars right out of people's accounts, and the taxpayers were forced to replace it.  It was directly caused by Reagan's deregulation jyhad.

Since then the richest have been simply taking unlimited sums of money from the American people as a whole, aided by constant erosion of regulations.  Agencies meant to control big biz are ran by people who work for big biz appointed by Republican presidents.

Look at some of trump's apponointees.

What you call cronyism is a product of unregulated capitalism.

Putin has done the same thing,  and found out his military has been  crippled by his cronies looting it.
You're completely incorrect.

First of all, it wasn't fine after 1929. FDR dragged out the Great Depression so it didn't really end until WW2. That's a big chunk of that 50 years.

Secondly, what about the 1970s? The more than a decade of stagflation was in many ways worse than the Great Depression. And it wasn't caused by the energy crisis. It was caused by Nixon taking the US off the gold standard, and massively printing money. The energy crisis was just a symptom.

Not to mention at least half the "deregulation" (using the word that way is a joke) the left tries to blame on Reagan happened under Carter.

And what caused the crash in 1987? Again, there was double digit monetary inflation for a few years preceding it. Cause, effect.

What caused the S&L crisis? Well, that's complex. It started in the post-WW2 era, when regulatory changes encouraged S&Ls to shift the vast majority of their mortgages from 5 to 20 year durations. But then stagflation happened, and for the period from 1965 to 1982 (until Volcker killed stagflation by sharply raising interest rates), the 5-6% they earned in interest on those mortgages was far below the inflation rate. They were hemorrhaging money, and by 1981, they were all fucked. Nearly all S&Ls had liabilities exceeding their assets. It took 10 years to close them, with several bipartisan attempts to deregulate then re-regulate them, but they were already dead. Can't really blame Reagan for anything, except trying to resuscitate an already dead patient.

jeff37923

  • Knight of Common Sense
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17747
Re: Klaus Schwab has plans for you
« Reply #41 on: June 28, 2022, 05:50:42 PM »
Chris I respect you,  so let me  point out that cronyism isn't a bug in American capitalism AS IT STANDS, it's a feature.

After the stock market crash of 1929,  a shit ton of regulations were out in place on banks and stock markets.


Notice how it ran OK for like. 50 years?

Then in 1980 a popular old actor and his manipulative wife got into the white house because president Carter wanted to end American depndance on Muslim controlled oil supplies.  Ever hear of the Arab oil embargo of 1973? Big oil didn't want America off the oil spike, too profitable, and with the memory of the embargo and early concerns about pollution,  there were some thoughts that it might by good to get off the oil habit.

So, Carter launched an energy alternative program which big oil didn't want. So we had an economic downturn and the leveraging of the Iranian crisis to put Reagan in office.  His first afts were to quietky strangle the energy program in it's crib and launch an all out assault on banking and wall street regulations.

For 8 years banks and wall street put one bill after another on his desk to eliminate the regulations that protected America from another economic disaster like '29.

Just after Nancy lead ronny out of the white house what happened? The SnL crisis and bailout. Unregulated SnLs just plain looted banks,  taking hundreds of billions  of dollars right out of people's accounts, and the taxpayers were forced to replace it.  It was directly caused by Reagan's deregulation jyhad.

Since then the richest have been simply taking unlimited sums of money from the American people as a whole, aided by constant erosion of regulations.  Agencies meant to control big biz are ran by people who work for big biz appointed by Republican presidents.

Look at some of trump's apponointees.

What you call cronyism is a product of unregulated capitalism.

Putin has done the same thing,  and found out his military has been  crippled by his cronies looting it.
This is interesting fanfiction. Have you considered collaborating with other alt-history writers, like Turtledove?

Have you ever considered presenting facts to support your views instead of just snark?  I know it takes more effort to find and cite facts than just snarkng,  considering I presented facts to backup my views.  But if your views are valid it can be done with some effort. I know from experince.

Have you ever considered providing any supporting evidence for your conspiracy theories? If you can't, then it is fanfic. Limp, impotent fanfic.
"I do not want to create a story, I want to create a stage. The player characters will perform on that stage and interact with the setting. When the players talk to their friends about what their characters did, then there will be a story."

Battlemaster

  • BANNED
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 338
  • I am a Bill Maher Democrat.
Re: Klaus Schwab has plans for you
« Reply #42 on: June 29, 2022, 01:19:50 PM »
Chris I respect you,  so let me  point out that cronyism isn't a bug in American capitalism AS IT STANDS, it's a feature.

After the stock market crash of 1929,  a shit ton of regulations were out in place on banks and stock markets.


Notice how it ran OK for like. 50 years?

It went ok except for the Great Depression.

But otherwise ok

The depression was triggered by the crash, moron. Reforms coukdb't un explode a bomb.
Fuck the fascist right and the fascist left.

Shasarak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4032
Re: Klaus Schwab has plans for you
« Reply #43 on: June 29, 2022, 04:13:17 PM »
Chris I respect you,  so let me  point out that cronyism isn't a bug in American capitalism AS IT STANDS, it's a feature.

After the stock market crash of 1929,  a shit ton of regulations were out in place on banks and stock markets.


Notice how it ran OK for like. 50 years?

It went ok except for the Great Depression.

But otherwise ok

The depression was triggered by the crash, moron. Reforms coukdb't un explode a bomb.

Dont stop now.  I want to hear more of your genius economic theories.
Who da Drow?  U da drow! - hedgehobbit

There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus