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Author Topic: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?  (Read 25446 times)

3catcircus

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #690 on: May 14, 2022, 09:35:40 AM »

By contrast, you seem to be arguing that there is no distinction between a single-celled zygote and killing a child after it is born. You also haven't expressed an opinion on in vitro fertilization (IVF), where typically 14 embryos are created and 7 destroyed for every successful pregnancy.


This is perhaps the largest problem in the debate. There is clearly a qualitative difference between a zygote which has a non-0 value, and a child which has an inestimable value, and there is no clear demarcation line between them as the zygote slowly develops into a fully developed child.

As the radical Left has pushed for abortion up to and including the moment of birth, and then starting to push for as late as 1-3 months after birth it has turned into a firestorm. On top of shockingly horrific acts of abortionists like Kermit Gosnell, and how it has turned into an industry encouraging scared young mothers to abort their babies for profit the situation has become untenable. America effectively has the most radical position on abortion in the world.

Roe V. Wade has to go because it is preventing communities from voting for how much abortion they can tolerate from 3rd trimester to none at all, and most communities will fall somewhere in between.

You bring up a very good point - pro-abortion organizations and activists like to claim that the US is puritanical in comparison to other countries, ignoring the fact that we have one of the most liberal policies in abortion in the world.

Of course these are the same people who demand we throw out immigration laws and let everyone in to the US...  Why would that be that they encourage killing potential new naturally-born citizens while encouraging giving their rights to illegal aliens???

jhkim

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #691 on: May 14, 2022, 07:25:47 PM »
You bring up a very good point - pro-abortion organizations and activists like to claim that the US is puritanical in comparison to other countries, ignoring the fact that we have one of the most liberal policies in abortion in the world.

This is on what restrictions one looks at. In the U.S., abortion has been held in court to be a constitutional right - therefore state laws can't restrict that. However, abortion opponents have tended to attack abortion providers instead - both literally and figuratively.

For example, we discussed France earlier in the recent RPGnet thread. France has a limit of 14 weeks gestation on abortions. However, it is also true that any woman can go into any public health center and get an abortion -- and it is guaranteed 100% covered by their universal health care. There is no spousal consent required. Minors do not require parental consent, though they do require counseling and an accompanying adult. They also have universally available RU-486.

By contrast, in some U.S. states, a person might have to travel hundreds of miles and/or pay major fees in order to have access to an abortion - because there are laws and policies that strictly limit them. So the U.S. laws make it harder to obtain an abortion - though of course it is still easy for the rich to obtain.

Ghostmaker

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #692 on: May 14, 2022, 11:12:57 PM »
You bring up a very good point - pro-abortion organizations and activists like to claim that the US is puritanical in comparison to other countries, ignoring the fact that we have one of the most liberal policies in abortion in the world.

This is on what restrictions one looks at. In the U.S., abortion has been held in court to be a constitutional right - therefore state laws can't restrict that. However, abortion opponents have tended to attack abortion providers instead - both literally and figuratively.

For example, we discussed France earlier in the recent RPGnet thread. France has a limit of 14 weeks gestation on abortions. However, it is also true that any woman can go into any public health center and get an abortion -- and it is guaranteed 100% covered by their universal health care. There is no spousal consent required. Minors do not require parental consent, though they do require counseling and an accompanying adult. They also have universally available RU-486.

By contrast, in some U.S. states, a person might have to travel hundreds of miles and/or pay major fees in order to have access to an abortion - because there are laws and policies that strictly limit them. So the U.S. laws make it harder to obtain an abortion - though of course it is still easy for the rich to obtain.
LOL. Here, I'll make you a deal.

You want to make baby smoothies, fine. But I bet I can make a MUCH better argument that the right to keep and bear arms is in the Constitution of the U.S., rather than abortion.

So if you want abortion, you kill off every dogshit gun control law from now all the way back to the GCA.

Those are my terms. Don't like 'em? Tough.

Spinachcat

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #693 on: May 15, 2022, 12:20:22 AM »
I'm looking forward to Red & blue states going extreme with their response to this abortion nonsense. Hopefully, other divisive issues will be taken to extremes as well.

Time for everyone to accept there are two INCOMPATIBLE cultures in this nation and there is NO middle ground for compromise.


Pat

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #694 on: May 15, 2022, 12:21:44 AM »
I'm looking forward to Red & blue states going extreme with their response to this abortion nonsense. Hopefully, other divisive issues will be taken to extremes as well.

Time for everyone to accept there are two INCOMPATIBLE cultures in this nation and there is NO middle ground for compromise.
More than two.

Don't forget the sane people.

Spinachcat

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #695 on: May 15, 2022, 12:53:28 AM »
Don't forget the sane people.

Nobody cares about the fence sitters or the normies.

Normies have no clue what's happening in the world beyond sportsball, porn and the Kardashians. They live as sheep, they'll die as sheep.

Fence sitters can continue their pseudo-intellectual quest for compromise and mutual understanding, but that train left the station years ago.


Pat

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #696 on: May 15, 2022, 01:51:28 AM »
Don't forget the sane people.

Nobody cares about the fence sitters or the normies.

Normies have no clue what's happening in the world beyond sportsball, porn and the Kardashians. They live as sheep, they'll die as sheep.

Fence sitters can continue their pseudo-intellectual quest for compromise and mutual understanding, but that train left the station years ago.
If you think people who don't agree you or your enemies are fence sitters or normies, you clearly are sheep.

Learn to think for yourself.

thornad

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #697 on: May 15, 2022, 04:08:56 AM »
Don't forget the sane people.

Nobody cares about the fence sitters or the normies.

Normies have no clue what's happening in the world beyond sportsball, porn and the Kardashians. They live as sheep, they'll die as sheep.

Fence sitters can continue their pseudo-intellectual quest for compromise and mutual understanding, but that train left the station years ago.

I would have considered this a radical position 20 years ago, maybe even 10 years ago. But now the Left has become so extreme and pushed the Right, who tend to be leave me alone I'll leave you alone by nature, harder than they wanted the other direction. Fence sitting and compromise has become morally and intellectually vacuous positions to take.
Gen-Xtra

3catcircus

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #698 on: May 15, 2022, 07:06:53 AM »
I'm looking forward to Red & blue states going extreme with their response to this abortion nonsense. Hopefully, other divisive issues will be taken to extremes as well.

Time for everyone to accept there are two INCOMPATIBLE cultures in this nation and there is NO middle ground for compromise.

This implies that leftists have culture.  Is it really culture if it has nothing of value and no redeeming qualities?  Maybe spell-check got away from you and you meant to state that they are a cult...  ;D

Chris24601

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #699 on: May 15, 2022, 11:00:32 AM »
I'm looking forward to Red & blue states going extreme with their response to this abortion nonsense. Hopefully, other divisive issues will be taken to extremes as well.

Time for everyone to accept there are two INCOMPATIBLE cultures in this nation and there is NO middle ground for compromise.

This implies that leftists have culture.  Is it really culture if it has nothing of value and no redeeming qualities?  Maybe spell-check got away from you and you meant to state that they are a cult...  ;D
I recently heard a pretty good argument that the Left/Woke belief system is “Destroy Everything!” and the moment you get ejected and become “right wing” is when they finally reach something you don’t think should be destroyed.

You haven’t changed when you finally realize the utter insanity of what they really want, but the Left/Woke keep driving forward ever more savagely towards absolute oblivion.

Creation is racist/sexist/homophobic because it allows racists/sexists/homophobes to exist within it. This is not a slippery slope argument of where it could go. This is what they all believe deep down. Reality is evil for not letting them be/do whatever they want when they want. Therefore reality must be destroyed so they can be free.

Goddamned Gnostics (the elitist cousin who preaches nihilism to the masses) coming to you this time under the guise of Scientism. Men can be women, anthropogenic climate change is real, lockdowns work, communism will work this time… if you just believe it hard enough and eliminate those who disbelieve these truths and seek to keep you imprisoned in their oppressive reality.

You’re damned right they’re a cult… they’re the latest iteration of one of the oldest cults in history; one that preaches the death of everything as it’s highest good. Which is why abortion has always been their highest sacrament; the murder of the most innocent and full of potential robs creation of all they might have accomplished.

Thankfully, just about everyone has their “Eject! Eject!” moment in the Woke’s game of chicken with the mountain of reality. Even Darth Vader had something he didn’t want to see destroyed. The further into the abyss they plunge, the smaller and more extreme their numbers become and there always comes the point where the evils they will upon others are so extreme that even the meekest of people will finally stand against them.

In terms of balkanization; the neo-Gnostics are now hitting the point of diminishing returns… their professions of intent on the road to dissolution are now so extreme that they’re starting to lose even the nonconfrontationals who would help move their ball down the court with their casual compliance. So they grow every more shrill and ever more tyrannical in intent which turns even more people against them. I don’t know when the exact moment will hit, but it invariably comes, when the common folks realize there are way more of them than there are of the lunatics in charge and then those in charge either flee into exile if they’re quick enough or get Ceaușescu-ed if they’re not.

Pat

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #700 on: May 15, 2022, 10:41:56 PM »
Becoming Darth Vader isn't the way to beat the Sith.

Chris24601

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #701 on: May 16, 2022, 07:50:10 AM »
Becoming Darth Vader isn't the way to beat the Sith.
No, and my argument wasn’t that you need to become Darth Vader. Rather, it was an analogy for “even the wicked might have some lines they won’t cross.”

Those who have declared themselves woke in the past are already Darth Vaders. But there may come a point when they open their eyes to the depravity and turn against it. When that happens, don’t make the perfect the enemy of the good. If they’re in a better position to throw the Emperor into the abyss than you are… Let them. The point is to destroy the Emperor/Woke, not the moral purity of the one who does it.

Put another way; I don’t care if it’s Jesus Christ, Ron DeSantis, Donald Trump, Elon Musk or some currently woke but about to awaken person who’s not even on our radar yet who stops the Woke and brings back some sanity. I just want the sanity brought back.

SHARK

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #702 on: May 16, 2022, 08:47:19 AM »
Greetings!

Most of the Democrats are terrible and disgusting. All of the woke morons are scum.

However, it has been gratifying--and immensely enjoyable--witnessing two or three Democrat politicians--I forgot whether they are Senators or Congressmen--but almost from the very beginning of the Biden Junta, have gone out of their way to fuck Biden at every opportunity. In so many votes, for this policy or that policy initiative--these few have eagerly joined with the GOP to strip Biden down and leave him fucked and laying in the gutter!

I have to say, these few Democrat rebels have often been more hard-core and consistent in their relentless opposition to Biden's terrible programs than many members of the GOP, especially the cock-sucking RINOS.

It's good though. It's always refreshing to be joined in the fight against the Marxist scum by people that have opened their eyes to the threat of Marxism, and a demented, power-hungry and authoritarian woke Junta.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security bred from familiar things and familiar ways. It narrows the mind. Weakens the body. And robs the soul of spirit and determination. Comfort is neither welcome nor tolerated here."

"Courage is not the absence of fear, but is doing what you have to, in spite of the fear."
"Let Death and Fire Be Their Portion!"
"Delenda Est Parthia!"

SHARK

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #703 on: May 16, 2022, 08:49:50 AM »
Don't forget the sane people.

Nobody cares about the fence sitters or the normies.

Normies have no clue what's happening in the world beyond sportsball, porn and the Kardashians. They live as sheep, they'll die as sheep.

Fence sitters can continue their pseudo-intellectual quest for compromise and mutual understanding, but that train left the station years ago.

Greetings!

*Laughing* So true! The "Normies" and Fence sitters are weak fucking sheep.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security bred from familiar things and familiar ways. It narrows the mind. Weakens the body. And robs the soul of spirit and determination. Comfort is neither welcome nor tolerated here."

"Courage is not the absence of fear, but is doing what you have to, in spite of the fear."
"Let Death and Fire Be Their Portion!"
"Delenda Est Parthia!"

jhkim

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #704 on: May 16, 2022, 12:24:07 PM »
This is on what restrictions one looks at. In the U.S., abortion has been held in court to be a constitutional right - therefore state laws can't restrict that. However, abortion opponents have tended to attack abortion providers instead - both literally and figuratively.

For example, we discussed France earlier in the recent RPGnet thread. France has a limit of 14 weeks gestation on abortions. However, it is also true that any woman can go into any public health center and get an abortion -- and it is guaranteed 100% covered by their universal health care. There is no spousal consent required. Minors do not require parental consent, though they do require counseling and an accompanying adult. They also have universally available RU-486.

By contrast, in some U.S. states, a person might have to travel hundreds of miles and/or pay major fees in order to have access to an abortion - because there are laws and policies that strictly limit them. So the U.S. laws make it harder to obtain an abortion - though of course it is still easy for the rich to obtain.
LOL. Here, I'll make you a deal.

You want to make baby smoothies, fine. But I bet I can make a MUCH better argument that the right to keep and bear arms is in the Constitution of the U.S., rather than abortion.

So if you want abortion, you kill off every dogshit gun control law from now all the way back to the GCA.

Those are my terms. Don't like 'em? Tough.

In general, I am supportive of gun rights, I don't have gun control as a cause, and there are plenty of gun control laws I dislike and would repeal. That said, there are some gun control provisions I support - like banning those convicted of violent crime from buying guns, and the irregular network of bans on straw purchases.

Then again, by specifying the 1968 Gun Control Act - that implies to me keeping the 1934 and 1938 Firearms Acts. Is that because you like ​*some* gun control? That seems like saying it isn't actually a Constitutional right - but rather, just going with what laws you like.

Still, I don't see the point of the bargain. The Constitution is what it is. I would agree that the right to privacy is weakly supported in the text, along with many of the uses of the interstate commerce clause - while the right to bear arms is supported. But our system is what it is.  I would be fine striking down many current gun control laws as unconstitutional, but I think there still needs to be judicial discretion in which ones are allowed.