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Author Topic: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?  (Read 60732 times)

fixable

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #585 on: May 07, 2022, 06:25:12 AM »

We'll win. Sorry. You will lose.


Well you personally won't win, of course, but that's got nothing to do with Roe V. Wade being overturned, that's just the cards you were dealt at birth. Sadly the universal legality of abortion did not help in one case where it very easily could have :(

I guess I'll chalk that up as another argument for overturning it.
Lol. Nice. That's the best you got? Dude you are a loser.

yancy

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #586 on: May 07, 2022, 06:32:13 AM »
Lol. Nice. That's the best you got? Dude you are a loser.

No, that's not the best I've got, the best I've got is

HEY HEY, HO HO, ROE V. WADE HAS GOT TO GO!

I guess we'll find out for sure soon enough, but at the moment, that's a more than sufficient response for any number of posts like yours.
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if you are against this, I assume you are racist.

Pat
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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #587 on: May 07, 2022, 06:35:34 AM »
You compare this to gun control... WTF? A woman having an abortion does not cause violent death of multiple human beings.
You're defending abortion by saying at least you're not killing multiple human beings.

I need a facepalm emoji.

Effete

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #588 on: May 07, 2022, 07:21:25 AM »
That's really unfair. You act like women go on and get pregnant and have abortions like their trading pokemon cards. Like women get abortions to score points like in video games.

You have no idea and you have no empathy.

Except, to be fair, some actually do. Granted it's an extremely small number, but they tend to very vocal (and proud) of having 10 or 20+ abortions. I'm not saying we should use the most extreme cases to argue the point, but he fact that people DO use it as,an alternative to sensible birth control is not doing anyone any favors. It's the same thing you see for pushing gun control. "OMG, there's one crazy irresponsible nut! Let's ban all guns for everyone!" It's a kneejerk reaction that lacks nuance and completely misses any point.
Lol, so ban abortions for everyone just because there is maybe people who are proud of having abortions??? Are  you insane? How many women do you think go around and get abortions for the trophies? Tell me... Do you actually believe this is something that warrants a full ban on abortions for ALL women???

You are literally using the most extreme cases to argue your point. Come on do better.

Are you retarded, or just bad at reading comprehension?
I bolded the part where I said the complete opposite of what you think I said.

Quote
You compare this to gun control... WTF? A woman having an abortion does not cause violent death of multiple human beings. There really isn't a comparison.

I compared using sluts who are proud of their graveyard vaginas as an anti-abortion argument to using gun homicide as an anti-gun argument. Both miss the point. As you have.

Chris24601

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #589 on: May 07, 2022, 08:54:17 AM »
Let’s be honest; the Left wants to be told they’re good people for supporting the murder of infants and then grooming the survivors to sterilize themselves or otherwise remove themselves from the gene pool (homosexuality and aborting their own children) in the name of their own pleasure and convenience.

Then they REE whenever someone shatters their self-perception of virtue and demand the voices of anyone calling them what they are; monsters; silenced and their lives destroyed for the Leftist-declared sin of using words they don’t like (because their violence is justified as speech, our speech is vilified as violence).

Nope. Sorry, you’re supporting baby murder, grooming the survivors and silencing all dissent from your wickedness. You should feel bad about yourself for that.

3catcircus

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #590 on: May 07, 2022, 11:11:11 AM »
I see nothing wrong with returning the favor of burning, looting, and murder on those woke who were so devoted to using violence as a means to achieve a political end not that long ago.

Not that long ago, and they seem like they're about ready to work themselves up to doing it again.

And instead of letting Burn, Loot, Murder or antifa engage in unchecked violence like they did in 2020, this time the response needs to be swift and merciless.  If there were purple-haired, stinky, pasty, soy-boy bodies piled up like cordwood, I wouldn't complain. Videos of cops knocking out leftist activists' toofisses with PR-24s would make me smile.

3catcircus

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #591 on: May 07, 2022, 11:16:41 AM »
The problem isn't with the concept of abortion. The problem is with how "safe, legal, and rare" has turned into "even though it looks like a little human I'm going to bury my head in the sand and call it fetal tissue so I don't have to face the truth of what I'm doing; let's use abortion as a primary means of birth control so we can reward bad behavior and bad choices; let's abort up to and beyond birth; let's let children get abortions without parental knowledge; let's do as many abortions as possible so we can sell the remains for dubious research and keep the money flowing in."

It's a microcosm of the overall greed, stupidity, and laziness that Western society is rife with - partly because western society has no real hardship anymore for most people and partly because regulatory governmental agencies would have to actually investigate.  In the extreme case of Kermit Gosnell, the PA dept of health chose to not stop him - they simply wanted to not know what was going on so they didn't have to act and it took an investigation into potential drug dealing by him that a light was shined on his little shop of horrors...  https://www.globalblackhistory.com/liberal-racism-the-case-of-dr-kermit-gosnell/

So that's where we're at - we've allowed the abortion industry to proceed so far beyond what was reasonable (let alone legal), that we *need* the pendulum to swing as far back in the opposite direction as possible...

And Gosnell isn't an isolated case... https://www.newsweek.com/dc-abortion-pictures-reveal-uncomfortable-truths-opinion-1698021

This makes sense to me.  I've always been willing to compromise at "safe, legal and rare" but like you said, we've gone so far past that now.
 
There is always going to be another exception people try to put up as an excuse.  Rape and incest.  Health and lives of the child/mother.  Mental health of the mother is one of the newer ones.  The truth is though, most abortions are excuses for not wanting to deal with the consequences of the actions.

Maybe there is newer data, but a study updated in 2016 found
Quote
"claims regarding "hard case" abortions are inflated by roughly a factor of three. Actual percentage of U.S. abortions in "hard cases" are estimated as follows: in cases of rape, 0.3%; in cases of incest, 0.03%; in cases of risk to maternal life, 0.1%; in cases of risk to maternal health, 0.8%; and in cases of fetal health issues, 0.5%. About 98.3% of abortions in the United States are elective, including socio-economic reasons or for birth control. This includes perhaps 30% for primarily economic reasons and possibly 0.1% each for sex selection and selective reduction of multifetal pregnancies."

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/abreasons.html

Even reputable and competent medical authorities are unduly influenced...  When my wife was pregnant with our oldest, she was 34, so it was recommended that she see an OB/GYN experienced with higher-risk pregnancy.  He asked if she wanted genetic testing and we agreed (not that it would change any decisions, but we wanted to be prepared if we were going to have a child with any health issues).  The results of testing came in and we were told that the baby has a "higher risk" of Trisomy-18 (a condition which is "incompatible with life" according to the nurse who called with the results and reculcomended we come in to discuss things or to do an amniocentesis). The *first* thing we were told when we got there and getting counseled by a "genetic counselor" who was not an MD or RN before doing the amniocentesis was that we could go and get an abortion in Ohio because my wife was too far along to do it in NJ.  My wife was terrified, of course. I asked to speak with her OB/GYN and directly asked him to quantify what the "higher risk" looked like.  His response was that her risk increased from a sub-1% chance to about a 6% chance, based upon previous case outcomes.  Amniocentesis results clearly showed that the boy was fine (other than trying to grab the needle as the doc was trying to extract fluid from the placenta, and now that he is a teen, generally being a typical teenage asshole).

Non-medically-trained staff seem overeager in all cases to recommend abortion as your first option.  How many women (younger, naive, not married/partnered with a logical rather than emotional partner) have gotten the abortion without actually understanding the risk or going the extra step to confirm the risk?

Yes - many people would, if the amniocentesis showed conclusively that the baby would be still born, die soon after birth, or be incapable of anything more than a vegetative state, get an abortion.  But how many would have had healthy babies instead of killing them if they had been made aware of what the risks actually are as opposed to "higher risk" without quantifying it?


We had something similar in our first. It was a potential genetic disorder for our child based on genetic testing. It was a result of screening that shows a potential. For us it was Turner syndrome. An amniocentesis showed negative and everything worked out fine. We never once got any pressure to have an abortion. Trisomy-18 sounds much worse and definitely something that would be debilitating. I'm glad it turned out negative for you.

But I don't know... you really don't have the authority to just make a blanket judgement that other women aren't capable of understanding the situation. You're making a lot of unnecessary assumptions. The suggestion that abortion is an option and one that should be considered isn't the same thing as mandating one. It sounds like a failure of your medical institution and it is likely that that does happen. But does that necessarily warrant a blanket ban on abortion? Wouldn't it be more effective and efficient to go after malpractice?

If a car mechanic fails to properly install brakes in a vehicle and that causes an accident, you don't go and ban all car mechanics or ban all brakes.

When the first and only option being offered is "travel out of state to have an abortion" instead of "let's confirm if there is an issue by doing an amniocentesis and then you can decide if you want to continue with the pregnancy or terminate it," it's a problem.  The layperson should not be put in the position of having to do their own investigation because the "experts" they're relying upon aren't offering the information.  Your job as a genetic counselor is not to provide a single course of action - it's to provide the information and let the patient decide.

3catcircus

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #592 on: May 07, 2022, 11:19:36 AM »
The core issue, to my thinking, is that we need a federal decision on what the legal status of a fetus is. Roe v Wade sidestepped this, and that's what led to it's inevitable challenging by the SCOTUS.
Sadly, the core issue has nothing to do with when human life begins.  It's about whether or not people are expected to live with the consequences of their own actions.  One does not randomly become pregnant.  And there is a large population of so-called "civilized" people (both male and female) who are willing to kill their own children in the womb to escape the consequences of sex.  At that point, there's very little hope that those people will ever seek understanding or compromise...

While I agree that their core issue is to evade the responsability of their own actions the point at where it's alive is relevant since they love to argue it's not life or a human life.

Problem: Unwanted pregnancy.

Solutions:
1.- Don't have sex (alternatively anal/oral sex doesn't get you pregnant)
2.- Contraceptives
3.- Plan B
4.- Give it in adoption.
5.- Put on your big girl panties and pay the piper
That's really unfair. You act like women go on and get pregnant and have abortions like their trading pokemon cards. Like women get abortions to score points like in video games.

You have no idea and you have no empathy.

When 98.5% of abortions are elective, it's not unfair - it's the uncomfortable truth.  Especially now when day after pills mean there should be no excuse to have a 2nd trimester (last alone 3rd) abortion - it's either that you're lazy or you're stupid (or both).

GeekyBugle

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #593 on: May 07, 2022, 01:15:47 PM »

A heartbeat is an objective metric. You either have one or you don't. That's a good place to start when crafting a bill.

Why? It's a purely arbitrary criteria that has nothing to do with the issue in question. A heartbeat isn't a characteristic that defines a human. It's a minimal criteria for independent survival, at least in most cases, but so is air, or a functioning endocrine system.

No, but we can know it's a human by the DNA.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

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GeekyBugle

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #594 on: May 07, 2022, 01:20:17 PM »
The core issue, to my thinking, is that we need a federal decision on what the legal status of a fetus is. Roe v Wade sidestepped this, and that's what led to it's inevitable challenging by the SCOTUS.
Sadly, the core issue has nothing to do with when human life begins.  It's about whether or not people are expected to live with the consequences of their own actions.  One does not randomly become pregnant.  And there is a large population of so-called "civilized" people (both male and female) who are willing to kill their own children in the womb to escape the consequences of sex.  At that point, there's very little hope that those people will ever seek understanding or compromise...

While I agree that their core issue is to evade the responsability of their own actions the point at where it's alive is relevant since they love to argue it's not life or a human life.

Problem: Unwanted pregnancy.

Solutions:
1.- Don't have sex (alternatively anal/oral sex doesn't get you pregnant)
2.- Contraceptives
3.- Plan B
4.- Give it in adoption.
5.- Put on your big girl panties and pay the piper
That's really unfair. You act like women go on and get pregnant and have abortions like their trading pokemon cards. Like women get abortions to score points like in video games.

You have no idea and you have no empathy.

98.5% of abortions are elective, ergo yes, they do take it like sports, they engage in an activity that risks certain outcomes and fail to take the adecuate precautions.

Condomns + the pill or gel or ovules or foam makes it more likely to get hit by lightning than getting pregnant. but the only way to make the risk zero is to not fuck.

You get on a plain put on a parachute and jump out at 3,000 feet. Both the main and the back up fail... Unintended and unexpected consecuences of your actions nobody else is to blame.

You have the right to close your legs
You have the right to use contraceptives
You have the right to get fixed
You have the right to give the baby for adoption
You have the right to become a parent
You don't have the right to murder a baby because you were careless.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

GeekyBugle

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #595 on: May 07, 2022, 01:21:45 PM »
That's really unfair. You act like women go on and get pregnant and have abortions like their trading pokemon cards. Like women get abortions to score points like in video games.

You have no idea and you have no empathy.

Except, to be fair, some actually do. Granted it's an extremely small number, but they tend to very vocal (and proud) of having 10 or 20+ abortions. I'm not saying we should use the most extreme cases to argue the point, but he fact that people DO use it as,an alternative to sensible birth control is not doing anyone any favors. It's the same thing you see for pushing gun control. "OMG, there's one crazy irresponsible nut! Let's ban all guns for everyone!" It's a kneejerk reaction that lacks nuance and completely misses any point.
Lol, so ban abortions for everyone just because there is maybe people who are proud of having abortions??? Are  you insane? How many women do you think go around and get abortions for the trophies? Tell me... Do you actually believe this is something that warrants a full ban on abortions for ALL women???

You are literally using the most extreme cases to argue your point. Come on do better.

Are you retarded, or just bad at reading comprehension?
I bolded the part where I said the complete opposite of what you think I said.

Quote
You compare this to gun control... WTF? A woman having an abortion does not cause violent death of multiple human beings. There really isn't a comparison.

I compared using sluts who are proud of their graveyard vaginas as an anti-abortion argument to using gun homicide as an anti-gun argument. Both miss the point. As you have.

He's retarded and dishonest.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

jeff37923

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #596 on: May 07, 2022, 01:31:25 PM »


Republican or right winger? Those terms are not interchangeable. Except to a liar.



I'm curious... where is your distinction?

For me... I consider Adam Kinzinger, Mitt Romney, the sorely missed John McCain to be Republican. I consider trump and greene, boberts, McConnell and gaetz to be right wingers.

Thank you for further demonstrating how fucked in the head you are.......
"Meh."

SHARK

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #597 on: May 07, 2022, 02:33:35 PM »


Republican or right winger? Those terms are not interchangeable. Except to a liar.



I'm curious... where is your distinction?

For me... I consider Adam Kinzinger, Mitt Romney, the sorely missed John McCain to be Republican. I consider trump and greene, boberts, McConnell and gaetz to be right wingers.

Thank you for further demonstrating how fucked in the head you are.......

Greetings!

Yeah, Jeff! He already admitted he was a brainwashed Marxist moron. ;D

Of course Marxist Liberals fucking love RINO politicians like Adam Kinzinger, Mitt Romney, and John McCain. All of the weak, sniveling, spineless "Republicans" that routinely get on their knees and let the Liberals fuck them in the ass. Meanwhile, these worthless fucking RINOS always shill for contributions, and make endless promises to the Conservative voting block--while at the end of the day, accomplish absolutely nothing except helping Liberal Marxists gain more power and further advance their agenda and tyranny throughout our society.

And the pussy RINOS and Liberals alike wonder in awe and wring their hands at why so many Conservatives fucking hate the RINO politicians!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
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BoxCrayonTales

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #598 on: May 07, 2022, 03:47:10 PM »
The core issue, to my thinking, is that we need a federal decision on what the legal status of a fetus is. Roe v Wade sidestepped this, and that's what led to it's inevitable challenging by the SCOTUS.
Sadly, the core issue has nothing to do with when human life begins.  It's about whether or not people are expected to live with the consequences of their own actions.  One does not randomly become pregnant.  And there is a large population of so-called "civilized" people (both male and female) who are willing to kill their own children in the womb to escape the consequences of sex.  At that point, there's very little hope that those people will ever seek understanding or compromise...

While I agree that their core issue is to evade the responsability of their own actions the point at where it's alive is relevant since they love to argue it's not life or a human life.

Problem: Unwanted pregnancy.

Solutions:
1.- Don't have sex (alternatively anal/oral sex doesn't get you pregnant)
2.- Contraceptives
3.- Plan B
4.- Give it in adoption.
5.- Put on your big girl panties and pay the piper
That's really unfair. You act like women go on and get pregnant and have abortions like their trading pokemon cards. Like women get abortions to score points like in video games.

You have no idea and you have no empathy.

98.5% of abortions are elective, ergo yes, they do take it like sports, they engage in an activity that risks certain outcomes and fail to take the adecuate precautions.

Condomns + the pill or gel or ovules or foam makes it more likely to get hit by lightning than getting pregnant. but the only way to make the risk zero is to not fuck.

You get on a plain put on a parachute and jump out at 3,000 feet. Both the main and the back up fail... Unintended and unexpected consecuences of your actions nobody else is to blame.

You have the right to close your legs
You have the right to use contraceptives
You have the right to get fixed
You have the right to give the baby for adoption
You have the right to become a parent
You don't have the right to murder a baby because you were careless.
Let’s turn this around and aim it at men:

You have the right to keep it in your pants
You have the right to wear a condom or use spermicide or other male-use contraceptives
You have the right to get a vasectomy
You have the right to fight for custody of your baby
You have the right to make that hoe you impregnated an honest woman
You don’t have the right to dump your baby on a hoe because you were careless or because your contraceptives were in the ineffective percentage

Do you agree or disagree? Why?

3catcircus

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #599 on: May 07, 2022, 03:57:56 PM »
The core issue, to my thinking, is that we need a federal decision on what the legal status of a fetus is. Roe v Wade sidestepped this, and that's what led to it's inevitable challenging by the SCOTUS.
Sadly, the core issue has nothing to do with when human life begins.  It's about whether or not people are expected to live with the consequences of their own actions.  One does not randomly become pregnant.  And there is a large population of so-called "civilized" people (both male and female) who are willing to kill their own children in the womb to escape the consequences of sex.  At that point, there's very little hope that those people will ever seek understanding or compromise...

While I agree that their core issue is to evade the responsability of their own actions the point at where it's alive is relevant since they love to argue it's not life or a human life.

Problem: Unwanted pregnancy.

Solutions:
1.- Don't have sex (alternatively anal/oral sex doesn't get you pregnant)
2.- Contraceptives
3.- Plan B
4.- Give it in adoption.
5.- Put on your big girl panties and pay the piper
That's really unfair. You act like women go on and get pregnant and have abortions like their trading pokemon cards. Like women get abortions to score points like in video games.

You have no idea and you have no empathy.

98.5% of abortions are elective, ergo yes, they do take it like sports, they engage in an activity that risks certain outcomes and fail to take the adecuate precautions.

Condomns + the pill or gel or ovules or foam makes it more likely to get hit by lightning than getting pregnant. but the only way to make the risk zero is to not fuck.

You get on a plain put on a parachute and jump out at 3,000 feet. Both the main and the back up fail... Unintended and unexpected consecuences of your actions nobody else is to blame.

You have the right to close your legs
You have the right to use contraceptives
You have the right to get fixed
You have the right to give the baby for adoption
You have the right to become a parent
You don't have the right to murder a baby because you were careless.
Let’s turn this around and aim it at men:

You have the right to keep it in your pants
You have the right to wear a condom or use spermicide or other male-use contraceptives
You have the right to get a vasectomy
You have the right to fight for custody of your baby
You have the right to make that hoe you impregnated an honest woman
You don’t have the right to dump your baby on a hoe because you were careless or because your contraceptives were in the ineffective percentage

Do you agree or disagree? Why?

Of course men should be doing these things.  But it's not just one person - both people need to be responsible.  How do you address cases where the father isn't even informed that his partner is pregnant so that an informed discussion can occur?