This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
The RPGPundit's Own Forum Rules
This part of the site is controlled by the RPGPundit. This is where he discusses topics that he finds interesting. You may post here, but understand that there are limits. The RPGPundit can shut down any thread, topic of discussion, or user in a thread at his pleasure. This part of the site is essentially his house, so keep that in mind. Note that this is the only part of the site where political discussion is permitted, but is regulated by the RPGPundit.

Author Topic: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?  (Read 60685 times)

Ghostmaker

  • Chlorine trifluoride
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4013
Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #450 on: April 23, 2022, 12:08:10 PM »
Suddenly the tactic of calling everyone you disagree with a Nazi seems a lot less constructive, eh?

Have fun dangling from the lampposts, groomers!

jeff37923

  • Knight of Common Sense
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18318
Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #451 on: April 23, 2022, 12:44:08 PM »
Dude, you are a liar. That pic you chose to illustrate how awful it is in Ireland is from a year ago at least. Looking at it, the banner looks like an ad banner you could have made at any number of print shops and they don't last a year when exposed to the elements outside. You just threw that pic up thinking that if it looks scary enough, it will make your point for you.

Oh my fucking God Jeff, that banner is there right now. I didn't personally take a picture of it because I was in a cab, so I found a shot someone else took of it on the web (and I never said or implied otherwise). It is in fact there right now. It looks exactly like that right now.

Why on earth would I make this up? I WAS just there. I did see it, and others. I gave you a link to a guy who takes pictures of these things throughout Belfast and he posted a rather similar one THREE DAYS AGO. Are you claiming this stuff isn't in Northern Ireland? If not, what the fuck is your point? I don't think you have one beyond just attacking me rather than my argument.

Quote
You mentioned that people in Ireland are denied employment if they are not the correct religion, kinda like how people are denied employment in the USA if they are not leftist enough for the job.

I am saying it's worse. When it happens in the US it's rare and makes the news. When it happens in Belfast it's just another day and an ordinary job.

Quote
Wrong religions get harassed in Ireland while wrong political thought gets harassed in America. You talk about marches and violence and vandalism which happens once a year instigated by each side. Were you just fucking asleep during the Black Lives Matter and Antifa riots not too long ago? There was burning, looting, and murder in those!

Yes Jeff, that is my point. If you Balkanize, that stuff doesn't go away it becomes standardized and worse. This is the 'good' times in Belfast now. They went through hundreds and hundreds of murders before this for decades! We don't want that situation.

Quote
You just think that the same behaviors are more horrible in a foreign country where you are being a tourist than when it happens here in your own nation because your image of Ireland being something out of Darby O'Gill and the Little People where you could vacation was shattered by reality. Hypocrite!

Wow Jeff you totally missed my point. No, I think this is what your "solution" looks like. It's worse than what we have right now.  To get to this point they went essentially a civil war and it never ended with splitting people up.  And again, I was not there as a tourist or on vacation, but you keep slinging those lies m'kay?

Quote
You are being a duplicitous little shitweasel and I'm saying that you are beyond being merely intellectually dishonest.

And note, up until now I haven't called you a liar. I've said that I call bullshit. You claimed I called you a liar first in order to try and curry some sympathy from the readers.

And I am saying nothing I said was in any way bullshit or a lie, you just don't have a good response to it so you replaced a cogent response with foaming spittle mad dog anger.

Tell you what Jeff, if I had someone go take a picture of that billboard this week and I posted it, THEN would you believe me? Though I continue to fail to see your point - you agree that billboard was put up (and that I was just there) and I have no idea why you think it being there this week is meaningfully different from it being there last year for this debate, but then you have no points in this conversation so far beyond personal attacks and "nuh uh!" to deflect from the conversation so I guess that's par for the course.

Mistwell, if Ireland is such a Hellscape of balkanized violence, then why did you vacation there? Were the old sets of Game of Thrones that important to you?

"Meh."

Pat
BANNED

  • BANNED
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 5252
  • Rats do 0 damage
Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #452 on: April 23, 2022, 12:50:36 PM »
Finding common ground sounds great, but in practice it becomes less and less likely as we continue down the current path.
That's why I've argued that we need to decentralize. When there are multiple sides, and each of those sides have hard lines where they won't bend, and those lines cross, the only solutions are 1) genocide, or 2) to allow every side a space. It's also better for minorities, who are disenfranchised 100% of the time in winner-takes-all systems, and those who aren't part of the insanity and just want to be left alone. All the modern problems come from the core assumption that there needs to be One True Law, and it must rule us all.
Agreed 100%.  It's going to happen, just a matter of when.  Would be nice to have it happen peacefully, but I have a feeling it's going the other way.
Succession is often violent, but decentralization doesn't have to be. I'm not particularly sanguine about the future, but there are definitely some positive signals amidst the negative ones. It's the left, after all, who pushed for gay marriage, marijuana legalization, and sanctuary cities, which were all cases of states and municipalities defying federal law. On the right, we see constitutional carry and people like DeSantis pushing strongly for state rights. Even the ACA operates primarily through the states, and things like social security could be pushed down, as well. The main problem in the US is the lack of a standard-bearer. 

The Spaniard

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 328
Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #453 on: April 23, 2022, 01:25:08 PM »
Finding common ground sounds great, but in practice it becomes less and less likely as we continue down the current path.
That's why I've argued that we need to decentralize. When there are multiple sides, and each of those sides have hard lines where they won't bend, and those lines cross, the only solutions are 1) genocide, or 2) to allow every side a space. It's also better for minorities, who are disenfranchised 100% of the time in winner-takes-all systems, and those who aren't part of the insanity and just want to be left alone. All the modern problems come from the core assumption that there needs to be One True Law, and it must rule us all.
Agreed 100%.  It's going to happen, just a matter of when.  Would be nice to have it happen peacefully, but I have a feeling it's going the other way.
Succession is often violent, but decentralization doesn't have to be. I'm not particularly sanguine about the future, but there are definitely some positive signals amidst the negative ones. It's the left, after all, who pushed for gay marriage, marijuana legalization, and sanctuary cities, which were all cases of states and municipalities defying federal law. On the right, we see constitutional carry and people like DeSantis pushing strongly for state rights. Even the ACA operates primarily through the states, and things like social security could be pushed down, as well. The main problem in the US is the lack of a standard-bearer.

I don't see the Feds letting go of control or power easily. There's too many deadbeats that rely on do nothing jobs.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2022, 04:06:18 PM by The Spaniard »

GeekyBugle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7399
  • Now even more Toxic
Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #454 on: April 23, 2022, 02:04:39 PM »
Greetings!

*Laughing* What a Leftist moron!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
That's ok. I think you're a blow hard too. Cheers.

So were you drunk or just hyperbolic? I've got money riding on this.
I vote delusional.

Greetings!

Yeah, he is a brainwashed Marxist freak. Their entire outburst and "analysis" was straight out of cock-sucking, Marxist propaganda. It is the same bullshit talking-points so often found being pumped into college students everywhere in America nowadays.

The same world-view that is pumped into college students on a daily basis, is also found throughout their college textbooks. The same, Marxist propaganda and Marxist-flavoured world-view that Americans see piped into them and served up to them on Mainstream Media, News outlets, and propaganda platforms like "The View", as well as the blatherings of most people in the music and entertainment industries.

So, there you go. Clearly the poster is a deeply brainwashed Marxist cultist. We see hordes of them throughout society nowadays too. The fruits of labour for the last 50 years of cock-sucking Liberals in this country purposely or naively working to get the country corrupted entirely by Marxism.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Ok brainwashed marxist freak here. Fair enough... I apologize I was over the top and went too far... It was wrong of me if I insulted any of you or otherwise I've been a jerk (I probably was and yeah I'm sorry about that).

But... I do have something more to say...

You can't balkanize the USA. Because every state is purple... not blue or red. Look at a strong liberal area then go a short car ride and find a conservative enclave.

But I do have some concerns...

I'm sure most people in the real world who differ in political opinion can coexist just fine. Democrat and Republican neighbors probably share driving their kids to school or engage in community events together just fine... and that is good and that is how the USA should work.

But then you have people calling others pedophiles and groomers. I mean where do you go from there? If one side decides that their opponents are unilaterally declared pedophiles and groomers and rapists... how can you have any actual discussion? If you start a conversation with: "You are a pedophile!" then what do you expect to get out of it?

There are people on the right who literally will look at one's sexual orientation and make a judgement that that person is a sexual predator... SOLELY on their sexual orientation. How is that right? I see right wing efforts in Florida and Texas to curtail talking those things and suppressing them

I'm curious to understand why this matters at all.

Who's calling people pedophiles and groomers?

Were calling pedophiles and groomers pedophiles and groomers.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

Eirikrautha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1266
Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #455 on: April 23, 2022, 02:14:19 PM »
Finding common ground sounds great, but in practice it becomes less and less likely as we continue down the current path.
That's why I've argued that we need to decentralize. When there are multiple sides, and each of those sides have hard lines where they won't bend, and those lines cross, the only solutions are 1) genocide, or 2) to allow every side a space. It's also better for minorities, who are disenfranchised 100% of the time in winner-takes-all systems, and those who aren't part of the insanity and just want to be left alone. All the modern problems come from the core assumption that there needs to be One True Law, and it must rule us all.
Agreed 100%.  It's going to happen, just a matter of when.  Would be nice to have it happen peacefully, but I have a feeling it's going the other way.
Succession is often violent, but decentralization doesn't have to be. I'm not particularly sanguine about the future, but there are definitely some positive signals amidst the negative ones. It's the left, after all, who pushed for gay marriage, marijuana legalization, and sanctuary cities, which were all cases of states and municipalities defying federal law. On the right, we see constitutional carry and people like DeSantis pushing strongly for state rights. Even the ACA operates primarily through the states, and things like social security could be pushed down, as well. The main problem in the US is the lack of a standard-bearer.
See, there you go again.  The left was not pushing for decentralization with gay marriage or sanctuary cities.  They were pushing for states to ignore the federal government because the feds weren't doing what they wanted.  As soon as the feds are promoting something the left wants, the left will demand the feds come down on those who defy them like the hammer of Thor.  You're treating this like the left is agreeing with the principle.  The left doesn't have principles, only tactics.  You are a fool if you think anyone can leverage a leftist's previous positions to justify a current argument...

Pat
BANNED

  • BANNED
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 5252
  • Rats do 0 damage
Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #456 on: April 23, 2022, 02:21:32 PM »
Finding common ground sounds great, but in practice it becomes less and less likely as we continue down the current path.
That's why I've argued that we need to decentralize. When there are multiple sides, and each of those sides have hard lines where they won't bend, and those lines cross, the only solutions are 1) genocide, or 2) to allow every side a space. It's also better for minorities, who are disenfranchised 100% of the time in winner-takes-all systems, and those who aren't part of the insanity and just want to be left alone. All the modern problems come from the core assumption that there needs to be One True Law, and it must rule us all.
Agreed 100%.  It's going to happen, just a matter of when.  Would be nice to have it happen peacefully, but I have a feeling it's going the other way.
Succession is often violent, but decentralization doesn't have to be. I'm not particularly sanguine about the future, but there are definitely some positive signals amidst the negative ones. It's the left, after all, who pushed for gay marriage, marijuana legalization, and sanctuary cities, which were all cases of states and municipalities defying federal law. On the right, we see constitutional carry and people like DeSantis pushing strongly for state rights. Even the ACA operates primarily through the states, and things like social security could be pushed down, as well. The main problem in the US is the lack of a standard-bearer.
See, there you go again.  The left was not pushing for decentralization with gay marriage or sanctuary cities.  They were pushing for states to ignore the federal government because the feds weren't doing what they wanted.  As soon as the feds are promoting something the left wants, the left will demand the feds come down on those who defy them like the hammer of Thor.  You're treating this like the left is agreeing with the principle.  The left doesn't have principles, only tactics.  You are a fool if you think anyone can leverage a leftist's previous positions to justify a current argument...
The right doesn't have principles, either. Especially in this case, because we're talking about the establishment right in Washington. When the left demands the Overton window be moved 300 million miles in their direction, the beltway right's only response has been to snivel and beg, "masters, could we maybe move the Overton windows 150 million miles to the left, instead?"

But it does set a precedent. Despite the utter lack of principles on both sides, they've created cases less corrupt people can point to and say, "yes, sometimes it's okay to say fuck you feds".

And as I said, it's the lack of a standard bearer that's the main problem. The closest we have is DeSantis. And while he's been okay on states' rights so far, he has no problem quashing any municipalities who disagree with him. I suspect he's just another unprincipled opportunist, who will favor states' rights while he's a governor, but will suddenly switch and favor federal authority if he gains a national post.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2022, 04:35:48 PM by Pat »

yancy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #457 on: April 23, 2022, 04:12:20 PM »

Who's calling people pedophiles and groomers?

Were calling pedophiles and groomers pedophiles and groomers.

Pedophiles and groomers *really* don't like being called pedophiles and groomers. Can't say that I blame them, it makes pedophilia and grooming more difficult.
Quote from: Rhedyn
if you are against this, I assume you are racist.

Mistwell

  • Smarter than Arduin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5289
Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #458 on: April 23, 2022, 05:20:05 PM »
Dude, you are a liar. That pic you chose to illustrate how awful it is in Ireland is from a year ago at least. Looking at it, the banner looks like an ad banner you could have made at any number of print shops and they don't last a year when exposed to the elements outside. You just threw that pic up thinking that if it looks scary enough, it will make your point for you.

Oh my fucking God Jeff, that banner is there right now. I didn't personally take a picture of it because I was in a cab, so I found a shot someone else took of it on the web (and I never said or implied otherwise). It is in fact there right now. It looks exactly like that right now.

Why on earth would I make this up? I WAS just there. I did see it, and others. I gave you a link to a guy who takes pictures of these things throughout Belfast and he posted a rather similar one THREE DAYS AGO. Are you claiming this stuff isn't in Northern Ireland? If not, what the fuck is your point? I don't think you have one beyond just attacking me rather than my argument.

Quote
You mentioned that people in Ireland are denied employment if they are not the correct religion, kinda like how people are denied employment in the USA if they are not leftist enough for the job.

I am saying it's worse. When it happens in the US it's rare and makes the news. When it happens in Belfast it's just another day and an ordinary job.

Quote
Wrong religions get harassed in Ireland while wrong political thought gets harassed in America. You talk about marches and violence and vandalism which happens once a year instigated by each side. Were you just fucking asleep during the Black Lives Matter and Antifa riots not too long ago? There was burning, looting, and murder in those!

Yes Jeff, that is my point. If you Balkanize, that stuff doesn't go away it becomes standardized and worse. This is the 'good' times in Belfast now. They went through hundreds and hundreds of murders before this for decades! We don't want that situation.

Quote
You just think that the same behaviors are more horrible in a foreign country where you are being a tourist than when it happens here in your own nation because your image of Ireland being something out of Darby O'Gill and the Little People where you could vacation was shattered by reality. Hypocrite!

Wow Jeff you totally missed my point. No, I think this is what your "solution" looks like. It's worse than what we have right now.  To get to this point they went essentially a civil war and it never ended with splitting people up.  And again, I was not there as a tourist or on vacation, but you keep slinging those lies m'kay?

Quote
You are being a duplicitous little shitweasel and I'm saying that you are beyond being merely intellectually dishonest.

And note, up until now I haven't called you a liar. I've said that I call bullshit. You claimed I called you a liar first in order to try and curry some sympathy from the readers.

And I am saying nothing I said was in any way bullshit or a lie, you just don't have a good response to it so you replaced a cogent response with foaming spittle mad dog anger.

Tell you what Jeff, if I had someone go take a picture of that billboard this week and I posted it, THEN would you believe me? Though I continue to fail to see your point - you agree that billboard was put up (and that I was just there) and I have no idea why you think it being there this week is meaningfully different from it being there last year for this debate, but then you have no points in this conversation so far beyond personal attacks and "nuh uh!" to deflect from the conversation so I guess that's par for the course.

Mistwell, if Ireland is such a Hellscape of balkanized violence, then why did you vacation there? Were the old sets of Game of Thrones that important to you?

Its not a "hellscape" it's just worse than the situation we have here for these kinds of issues. And it was MUCH MUCH MUCH worse during the peak of The Troubles. It's an example of how Balkanization within a single nation doesn't go great, and avoiding it is a netter option.

And I DID NOT GO THERE ON VACATION.  The touristy stuff I saw was just extra to what we were doing. Because why not?
« Last Edit: April 23, 2022, 05:21:50 PM by Mistwell »

DocJones

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1081
  • theofascist
Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #459 on: April 23, 2022, 05:38:46 PM »
Pedophiles and groomers *really* don't like being called pedophiles and groomers. Can't say that I blame them, it makes pedophilia and grooming more difficult.
They're calling themselves "minor attracted persons" now. 

SHARK

  • The Great Shark Hope
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5039
Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #460 on: April 23, 2022, 05:54:39 PM »
Suddenly the tactic of calling everyone you disagree with a Nazi seems a lot less constructive, eh?

Have fun dangling from the lampposts, groomers!

Greetings!

Yep! Notice how all the Leftist Groomers and kiddie-fuckers start to sweat when hordes of normal citizens start getting the ropes ready!

Let them all swing, and swing HIGH! Not just the pedophiles, but also the groomer fucking allies and these duplicitous scum that like to coddle and soft-peddle for groomers and pedophiles. They need to swing high, too.

Can you just imagine the huge crowds of people that would show up to watch groomers and pedophiles swing?

I imagine there would be huge numbers of people.

GROOMERS AND PEDOPHILES GET THE ROPE!!!!

*laughing*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

yancy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #461 on: April 23, 2022, 06:58:27 PM »
And I DID NOT GO THERE ON VACATION.  The touristy stuff I saw was just extra to what we were doing. Because why not?

Yes, grandpa, you told us all before that you went there on another one of your 'secret missions.'

It's almost 7, visiting hours are over, we'll see you again next weekend, now go with the nice nurse and get some strawberry ice cream before they run out and you get stuck with vanilla again.
Quote from: Rhedyn
if you are against this, I assume you are racist.

oggsmash

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4007
Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #462 on: April 23, 2022, 08:03:48 PM »
  The USA has 5x the murder rate and 10x the violent crime rate, triple the rape rate of Ireland.   So..... That is interesting.

GeekyBugle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7399
  • Now even more Toxic
Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #463 on: April 23, 2022, 09:26:21 PM »

Who's calling people pedophiles and groomers?

Were calling pedophiles and groomers pedophiles and groomers.

Pedophiles and groomers *really* don't like being called pedophiles and groomers. Can't say that I blame them, it makes pedophilia and grooming more difficult.

Well, the first step to solving ANY problem is recognizing the problem exists.

The west has a pedophile and groomer problem, by identifying the problem and giving it the correct name we shine a light on it, making it more difficult for the cocroaches to scurry away.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

GeekyBugle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7399
  • Now even more Toxic
Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #464 on: April 23, 2022, 09:27:27 PM »
Pedophiles and groomers *really* don't like being called pedophiles and groomers. Can't say that I blame them, it makes pedophilia and grooming more difficult.
They're calling themselves "minor attracted persons" now.

Shark chum, tree ornament, lamp post decoration is what they should be called IMHO.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell