It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?

[jmarso]

Don't waste your breath. Anyone who claims that the southeast United States is going to become the "New Confederacy" has their head so far up their ass that they can taste their own heartbeat.

FFS, grow a sense of humor. Please. Before you stroke out.

[jeff37923]

Don't waste your breath. Anyone who claims that the southeast United States is going to become the "New Confederacy" has their head so far up their ass that they can taste their own heartbeat.

FFS, grow a sense of humor. Please. Before you stroke out.

I live in the South and every time I hear that "The South Is Going To Rise Again", it has come from a person who has been ate up with stupid. Sorry that is you this time.

[Chris24601]

I don't need the whole south to secede, just a contiguous line from here to Florida.

But you misunderstand if you think it's going to be some formal secession decided by state governments.

We are already seeing a separation or cleaving between the actual productive parts of the country and the locust class. The groundwork is being laid for a parallel economy where the woke and unwoke have fewer and fewer interactions with one another (they don't buy our products and we don't by theirs) and state governments are more and more ignoring the blatherings coming from DC (it used to just be the Blue-side who ignored federal laws they didn't like, but now the Red-side is getting in on the act).

Now throw inflation, food shortages and likely loss of the dollar's status as reserve currency and we are headed for a collapse where there are too many differences between the regions (but particularly the urban coastal elites and the rural regions of the country) for this country to hold together as a single nation-state once the food riots start (see Sri Lanka and Peru right now for previews of our future... except we have vastly more guns in the hands of soon to be starving citizens).

Some of the better-off states may be able to cobble something resembling a nation-state together and that's what I hope my state will be in a position to be a part of.

[Fheredin]

The US is not going to balkanize; NYC is essentially completely dependent on trade with and commuters from the states around it to function, and California is committed to driving itself into a debt default. If you remove those two components, most states have pretty good relationships with each other. The proof is in concealed carry reciprocity because that generally requires some measure of cooperation between state legislatures.



Florida has an above average reciprocity map, but most CCW permits are valid across most of the continental US. This is indicative of states which have good relationships with each other, even if they are separated by hundreds of miles and have no contact with states bordering their borders.

[Chris24601]

Balkanize probably isn't the right word, but there's definitely a cleaving going on between the cultures of "fly-over country" and the urban coasts.

Big Tech, centered almost entirely in the coasts is a big part of that cleaving as they censor anything that doesn't conform to their ideology; forcing those with other values to do business elsewhere.

When the government wants to be able to shut down your ability to feed, clothe and house your family if you disagree with their illogical and frankly suicidal if followed dictates, the people they're trying to crush will do everything they can to separate from that society.

Gab, Rumble, Brave/Brave Search, GiveSendGo... Hell, even the RPGSite exist because someone decided a whole class of people were not acceptable and should be silenced and would be quite happy if their means of supporting themselves was removed so they'd die if they didn't submit to their cult.

We're already living in a Balkanized country to varying degrees... we just don't acknowledge it. How many companies do you no longer buy from or events do you no longer attend because the SJW's have infested them? How many shows/movies/suservices do you not watch because they're infested with Woke? How many places do you have no intention of ever visiting now because of the politics in those places?

We're already divided or well in the process of getting there.

[fixable]

We are living in a balkanized country based on the new satanic panic of ultra right wing ideologies. CRT, immigrants, LGBTQ+ are the new enemies of their so-called purified merica. We'll never have unity as long as ultra conservatives continue to trample on women's rights, LGBTQ+ rights, immigrant rights, poor peoples rights. Basically, the right in the US has declared open war over against anyone who does not conform to their ideal of fundamental christian ideologies.

The ultra-right has literally stated that these people don't have a right to live peacefully and don't have the same protections under the Constitution of the Untied States. They will use their vast media power (all media is right wing media - the liberal media thing is a myth).

Why? Because money. The ultra wealthy the richest people in the world the capitalist overlords (who have more money and power than any of us can possibly imagine) run it all. They own us completely and they will use their power to make you conform to the idea that anyone who wants an individual to have power in this world is the enemy. They tell you that people who want fair distribution of basic needs to live as woke. That if you want to love a person you choose as woke. That you want to survive in this world as woke.

The right wing ideology has a foundation of an ultra rich capitalist elite who want to control every aspect of our lives and squeeze every last penny from us. They will collapse our planet's ecosystem to make more profit, they will watch people suffer to make more profit. The right needs to separate itself from ultra rich capitalists if they want to hold true to the Constitution... but I think we all know that the right doesn't give a f*ck about the Constitution and they will cheat and steal and intimidate and coerce their way into power.

[fixable]

Balkanize probably isn't the right word, but there's definitely a cleaving going on between the cultures of "fly-over country" and the urban coasts.

Big Tech, centered almost entirely in the coasts is a big part of that cleaving as they censor anything that doesn't conform to their ideology; forcing those with other values to do business elsewhere.

When the government wants to be able to shut down your ability to feed, clothe and house your family if you disagree with their illogical and frankly suicidal if followed dictates, the people they're trying to crush will do everything they can to separate from that society.

Gab, Rumble, Brave/Brave Search, GiveSendGo... Hell, even the RPGSite exist because someone decided a whole class of people were not acceptable and should be silenced and would be quite happy if their means of supporting themselves was removed so they'd die if they didn't submit to their cult.

We're already living in a Balkanized country to varying degrees... we just don't acknowledge it. How many companies do you no longer buy from or events do you no longer attend because the SJW's have infested them? How many shows/movies/suservices do you not watch because they're infested with Woke? How many places do you have no intention of ever visiting now because of the politics in those places?

We're already divided or well in the process of getting there.

Lol.. i find it hilarious that you guys don't' realize that YOU are the evil empire. You guys cry cry cry cry cry like babies,  but you guys are winning. You got your asinine b.s. legislation going everywhere, and you got your cultist trump flag waving morons everywhere.

What? how much more do you want to rape our country???Are you already getting everything your sad pathetic desires fulfilled?? How far do you fascists want to go? 1984 level control over our society??? Satanic panic in full effect.

I'm married to someone not of my same race. Am I on the execution block?? You are gunning for interracial marriage ( and yes I know you mean interracial with blacks) My daughter is interracial. Is my daughter open season to be raped and forced to bear that child? Is that what you all want? Good for you.(I mean go F*CK yourselfs... if that wasn't claear).

[fixable]

But yeah if you want to split the country up then you are literally seditionists and in opposition of the Constitution of the United States.  I guess good luck with that... The United States is pretty good at beating nazi's.

And if you think you have some consensus, you don't. trump lost in a landslide in 2020. You got absolutely embarrassed in 2020. We will continue to rise and get back control of our country. We're going to get MTG out, we're going to get "my husband shows his penis to kids" Boebert out, we're going to kick walker to the curb. There will be a dramatic Blue surge in the mid-terms because the right has not shown anything but causing misfortune for Americans for petty reasons.

Because the American people want solutions to their problems, not a bunch of clowns spending all their time playing culture war.

[Shasarak]

USA USA 🇺🇸

[oggsmash]

   Ultraconservative religious right = values of a mid 90's democrat in the USA.   The language here is that of a fool.   Landslide....odd that landslides only seem to happen in the deadest of night in the swingiest of states where rules are changed.  I am happy the most popular president in US history shits his pants and shakes hands with ghosts on stage. 

   Trampling rights...like wanting no men in women's locker rooms or sports?  LMAO.  It is pretty hilarious that what was left of center in 1995 is not "Ultra right wing conservatives" who have a victim complex.

[I]

But yeah if you want to split the country up then you are literally seditionists and in opposition of the Constitution of the United States. 

There is nothing in the U.S. Constitution that says a state can't secede.  Nothing in 1861, nothing today.  There's an 1880s Supreme Court case, but such cases can be and have been overturned.  And if a convention of states is formed, pretty much anything goes.  Also, you seem to be unaware that some states were admitted to the U.S. with the agreement of Congress that those states could secede any time they wished.  I believe  (iirc) New York and Virginia only joined once that guarantee was given.  If it was impossible, Congress would not have agreed to the terms.

[Pat]

We are living in a balkanized country based on the new satanic panic of ultra right wing ideologies. CRT, immigrants, LGBTQ+ are the new enemies of their so-called purified merica. We'll never have unity as long as ultra conservatives continue to trample on women's rights, LGBTQ+ rights, immigrant rights, poor peoples rights. Basically, the right in the US has declared open war over against anyone who does not conform to their ideal of fundamental christian ideologies.

The ultra-right has literally stated that these people don't have a right to live peacefully and don't have the same protections under the Constitution of the Untied States. They will use their vast media power (all media is right wing media - the liberal media thing is a myth).

Why? Because money. The ultra wealthy the richest people in the world the capitalist overlords (who have more money and power than any of us can possibly imagine) run it all. They own us completely and they will use their power to make you conform to the idea that anyone who wants an individual to have power in this world is the enemy. They tell you that people who want fair distribution of basic needs to live as woke. That if you want to love a person you choose as woke. That you want to survive in this world as woke.

The right wing ideology has a foundation of an ultra rich capitalist elite who want to control every aspect of our lives and squeeze every last penny from us. They will collapse our planet's ecosystem to make more profit, they will watch people suffer to make more profit. The right needs to separate itself from ultra rich capitalists if they want to hold true to the Constitution... but I think we all know that the right doesn't give a f*ck about the Constitution and they will cheat and steal and intimidate and coerce their way into power.

Does your definition of "ultra-right" include Mao, or does he just barely make it to the good side?

[Pat]

But yeah if you want to split the country up then you are literally seditionists and in opposition of the Constitution of the United States. 

There is nothing in the U.S. Constitution that says a state can't secede.  Nothing in 1861, nothing today.  There's an 1880s Supreme Court case, but such cases can be and have been overturned.  And if a convention of states is formed, pretty much anything goes.  Also, you seem to be unaware that some states were admitted to the U.S. with the agreement of Congress that those states could secede any time they wished.  I believe  (iirc) New York and Virginia only joined once that guarantee was given.  If it was impossible, Congress would not have agreed to the terms.

The Civil War and the idea of the Union casts a long shadow. It's extremely well entrenched in the establishment's mores and the public consciousness. That's a lot of inertia to overcome.

And from a legal standpoint, the Constitution was more a reflection of James Madison's ideal of a powerful central state than Jefferson's ideal of a loose confederation of independent states. While it says nothing about secession, it also does not explicitly allow it, and interpretations since have almost invariably favored Washington over the states.

Though I do agree that it's very clear that the states that agreed to join in the 18th and early 19th century were clearly under the impression it was a voluntary union, and that they could withdraw if they felt like it. During the Jacksonian era, there was that whole back-and-forth about what states needed to do to secede, which was tied to the idea of federal nullification; i.e. that states could decide which federal laws they followed.

The most promising thing about the secessionist or at least decentralist movement of today is that both sides have come down firmly on the side of nullification, from sanctuary cities, marijuana legalization, and gay marriage on the left to constitutional carry on the right. Though admittedly, it's purely a matter of political expediency rather than a principled stand. But it does open a door.

[ThatChrisGuy]

There is nothing in the U.S. Constitution that says a state can't secede.  Nothing in 1861, nothing today.  There's an 1880s Supreme Court case, but such cases can be and have been overturned.  And if a convention of states is formed, pretty much anything goes.  Also, you seem to be unaware that some states were admitted to the U.S. with the agreement of Congress that those states could secede any time they wished.  I believe  (iirc) New York and Virginia only joined once that guarantee was given.  If it was impossible, Congress would not have agreed to the terms.

The question of state secession was answered, in blood, in 1865.  The answer is "no."

[oggsmash]

There is nothing in the U.S. Constitution that says a state can't secede.  Nothing in 1861, nothing today.  There's an 1880s Supreme Court case, but such cases can be and have been overturned.  And if a convention of states is formed, pretty much anything goes.  Also, you seem to be unaware that some states were admitted to the U.S. with the agreement of Congress that those states could secede any time they wished.  I believe  (iirc) New York and Virginia only joined once that guarantee was given.  If it was impossible, Congress would not have agreed to the terms.

The question of state secession was answered, in blood, in 1865.  The answer is "no."

  Sort of.  The answer like all answers from history, is the victor writes and decides history.