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Author Topic: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?  (Read 23073 times)

Ratman_tf

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #645 on: May 08, 2022, 08:06:16 PM »
Since it's Mother's Day, NPR decided to spend the day promoting abortion rights. Which makes as much sense as celebrating Juneteenth by talking about how grand the plantation system was, and how everyone should own a slave. But anyway....

One of the radical extremists they used in a propaganda piece disguised as an interview had an interesting confession: For the last 49 years (and they kept repeating that time frame), the left and the progressive abortion rights movement has almost entirely been focused on the national stage, and were operating under the unwavering assumption that Roe v. Wade was settled law and 49 years (again) of precedent would never be overturned. During that time, the right primarily operated at the state and local level, and chipped away at the edges of Roe v. Wade, including setting up laws that take effect if it's repealed. Strategically, they didn't get very far because of the absolute nature of Roe v. Wade, but tactically they won almost every battle. This led to the right being a dramatically better place than the left, if the law-by-judicial-fiat is thrown out.

That's a pretty frank admission of two major gaping blind spots and the resulting failure in contingency planning, and I think it's also a relevant commentary on the strengths and weaknesses of the two sides. The right has focused more on the local and state level, which has led to many victories in areas like constitutional carry, congressional redistricting, and so on. While the left has taken the national stage, and dominates almost all issues at that level.

I wouldn't be surprised if the SCOTUS back off due to the reaction from the leak. If they think the harassment now is extreme, imagine if Roe were actually overturned.
Since it was a leak, and nothing is decided yet, they're in a good spot to drop it like a hot potato.
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Pat

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #646 on: May 08, 2022, 08:22:07 PM »
Since it's Mother's Day, NPR decided to spend the day promoting abortion rights. Which makes as much sense as celebrating Juneteenth by talking about how grand the plantation system was, and how everyone should own a slave. But anyway....

One of the radical extremists they used in a propaganda piece disguised as an interview had an interesting confession: For the last 49 years (and they kept repeating that time frame), the left and the progressive abortion rights movement has almost entirely been focused on the national stage, and were operating under the unwavering assumption that Roe v. Wade was settled law and 49 years (again) of precedent would never be overturned. During that time, the right primarily operated at the state and local level, and chipped away at the edges of Roe v. Wade, including setting up laws that take effect if it's repealed. Strategically, they didn't get very far because of the absolute nature of Roe v. Wade, but tactically they won almost every battle. This led to the right being a dramatically better place than the left, if the law-by-judicial-fiat is thrown out.

That's a pretty frank admission of two major gaping blind spots and the resulting failure in contingency planning, and I think it's also a relevant commentary on the strengths and weaknesses of the two sides. The right has focused more on the local and state level, which has led to many victories in areas like constitutional carry, congressional redistricting, and so on. While the left has taken the national stage, and dominates almost all issues at that level.

I wouldn't be surprised if the SCOTUS back off due to the reaction from the leak. If they think the harassment now is extreme, imagine if Roe were actually overturned.
Since it was a leak, and nothing is decided yet, they're in a good spot to drop it like a hot potato.
They shouldn't. Out of matter of principle, they shouldn't give in to attempts at intimidation and bullying. If they do, they're setting a horrible precedent, and further destroying the court's tattered reputation. Plus, it's a shit constitutional amendment. Because while it has the standing of a constitutional amendment, it's not a law that was passed by an legislature who are elected by the public. Instead, it's 9 men in silly pervert robes who decided to make things up out of thin air. That's about as undemocratic as anything could ever possibly get in a constitutional republic. Note none of this reflects any of my beliefs about abortion, just about due process, the rule of law, democracy, and integrity.

But Roberts is a coward and a weasel, so I bet he'll switch sides and assign the majority opinion to himself, and instead of nullifying Roe v. Wade he'll carve out a minor exception, and thus weaken it, instead of outright abolishing it.

Shasarak

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #647 on: May 08, 2022, 08:42:30 PM »
And I'm darkly amused at all the pro-lifers who are happy to let this fall back into states rights, knowing full well that some states will make abortion even more accessible. I guess those dead babies are a price they're willing to pay...

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
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Chris24601

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #648 on: May 08, 2022, 09:52:36 PM »
Alright, you crosseyed goat fuckers.

I think "responsibility" is overrated in this situation. People are stupid, and they're doubly stupid about birth control. You get drunk and hot and heavy, and forget your rubber one night and bam. Baby jail.
Conservatives are stupid. They preach about responsibility, but when it's their teen who done (literally) screwed up, and that abortion starts looking like an *unfortunate but necessary exception* Buncha side talking jackasses there.
And there you’d be wrong. Adoption or keeping the child is the only options I’ve ever seen considered. Some of actually care about the life of innocent children. There are plenty of people who aren’t hypocrites.

The fact that you equate a child with jail is telling. Babies are miracles. You know what, if it happens in your family… get in touch. I’ll take the baby myself or find another family who would be more than happy to take them. There are so so many couples looking to adopt and who wait years or even seek children from overseas who would take in all these children that the idea that you would be “condemned” to raising a child is ridiculous.

People do stupid things, sure. They generally learn their lessons when there are consequences though. Several months of discomfort then giving the child to a loving family is a heck of a consequence to teach that lesson.

Pat

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #649 on: May 08, 2022, 10:22:33 PM »
The most plausible explanation for why the draft opinion was leaked is it was a deliberate attempt to influence the mid-terms, by galvanizing the Democrats around a wedge issue.

But even CNN's latest poll showed it didn't work:
https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/07/politics/republicans-midterms-roe-v-wade/index.html
Voters care more about the economy than anything else, by a huge margin, and don't trust the Democrats.

Mistwell

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #650 on: May 08, 2022, 10:36:56 PM »
I support abortion access because we live in an imperfect world. Shit happens.

I believe that every male should be legally compelled to bank their sperm and get a vasectomy. But obviously that’s not gonna happen even though it would reduce the abortion rate to near zero.

The best we can do is do what other countries have done. Make it easier to get contraception, social safety nets for single mothers, etc… and the abortion rate will go down.
The only way we could make contraception easier to get is if we offered it for free.

Fucking hell, crayon boy, this isn't 1950. This isn't a case of unavailability, it's a case of men and women not wanting to be responsible.
Then why do other countries with free abortion have lower abortion rates than the USA?

Everyone is having less sex there?

Mistwell

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #651 on: May 08, 2022, 10:38:09 PM »
  Is this an argument that if abortion was free in the USA there would be fewer of them?   I think I need a list of the nations where abortion is free and what the limits are regarding term of pregnancy.  I looked at a list of several european nations, and they are ALL considerably more restrictive as to term than the USA is (where you can just go to the state with the right note concerning "mental health of the mother" and get that baby terminated at a VERY late date) so I am not sure it is an apple to apple comparison.

Greetings!

Yeah, it's a worthless comparison. Other countries have different cultures, different media, different societies. In addition, they don't have 350 million people, nor are they as diverse as America.

Beyond that, right is right. Fuck what Europe or anyone else does. Abortion should be banned. Fuck abortion being *free*. It isn't free. The tax payers are paying for it. Tax payers are paying, with their money, so that irresponsible strumpets can fuck all they want and never take responsibility for their behavior.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

It's weird that you continue to point the finger at women as the only ones having sex in these scenarios.

Mistwell

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #652 on: May 08, 2022, 10:38:46 PM »
And now we’re back to slut shaming.

Greetings!

Sluts *should* be shamed, and relentlessly. They should be shamed and condemned throughout society, at every opportunity, instead of having "Slut Walks" and having sluts and Thottery celebrated and promoted everywhere.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

But SHARK, *you* were a slut.

Mistwell

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #653 on: May 08, 2022, 10:39:53 PM »
And now we’re back to slut shaming.

Greetings!

Sluts *should* be shamed, and relentlessly. They should be shamed and condemned throughout society, at every opportunity, instead of having "Slut Walks" and having sluts and Thottery celebrated and promoted everywhere.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Does that include shaming men for being sluts too?
Have you been paying any attention at all to the last few pages? Basically everyone who was advocating for personal responsibility for women also came out very strongly in favor of personal responsibility for men. And that seems to be the consistent conservative position, going back decades if not longer.

Meaning you're either remarkably naive, or deliberately disingenuous.

Except those same people went right back to specifically using female gender slams in every post where they sham people thereafter.

Mistwell

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #654 on: May 08, 2022, 10:41:46 PM »
Alright, you crosseyed goat fuckers.

I think "responsibility" is overrated in this situation. People are stupid, and they're doubly stupid about birth control. You get drunk and hot and heavy, and forget your rubber one night and bam. Baby jail.
Conservatives are stupid. They preach about responsibility, but when it's their teen who done (literally) screwed up, and that abortion starts looking like an *unfortunate but necessary exception* Buncha side talking jackasses there.

Meanwhile we regress into hot lysol abortions and dead women on the deck because the program of shame doesn't work to keep their legs closed, but does work to put money in the pockets of back-alley abortionists. That's how you dumbasses got Roe v Wade in the first place.

I think the general consensus is a decent one. The mistake the activist left made was in trying to turn abortion into some kind of women's rights issue. Now, they have to go all the way, and cheer about it. But they built their prescedent on quicksand and now instead of proposing a better law, they just harass judges because they're mad.

And I'm darkly amused at all the pro-lifers who are happy to let this fall back into states rights, knowing full well that some states will make abortion even more accessible. I guess those dead babies are a price they're willing to pay...

Damn dude, you nailed it. Respect.

Pat

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #655 on: May 08, 2022, 11:12:21 PM »
And now we’re back to slut shaming.

Greetings!

Sluts *should* be shamed, and relentlessly. They should be shamed and condemned throughout society, at every opportunity, instead of having "Slut Walks" and having sluts and Thottery celebrated and promoted everywhere.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Does that include shaming men for being sluts too?
Have you been paying any attention at all to the last few pages? Basically everyone who was advocating for personal responsibility for women also came out very strongly in favor of personal responsibility for men. And that seems to be the consistent conservative position, going back decades if not longer.

Meaning you're either remarkably naive, or deliberately disingenuous.

Except those same people went right back to specifically using female gender slams in every post where they sham people thereafter.
A discussion about abortions and pregnancy that focuses on women?

The horror.

Mistwell

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #656 on: May 09, 2022, 12:03:11 AM »
And now we’re back to slut shaming.

Greetings!

Sluts *should* be shamed, and relentlessly. They should be shamed and condemned throughout society, at every opportunity, instead of having "Slut Walks" and having sluts and Thottery celebrated and promoted everywhere.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Does that include shaming men for being sluts too?
Have you been paying any attention at all to the last few pages? Basically everyone who was advocating for personal responsibility for women also came out very strongly in favor of personal responsibility for men. And that seems to be the consistent conservative position, going back decades if not longer.

Meaning you're either remarkably naive, or deliberately disingenuous.

Except those same people went right back to specifically using female gender slams in every post where they sham people thereafter.
A discussion about abortions and pregnancy that focuses on women?

The horror.

Naw man the shaming is about sleeping around. Take a look. For example, have you ever heard a guy called a strumpet?

Ratman_tf

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #657 on: May 09, 2022, 12:11:09 AM »
Alright, you crosseyed goat fuckers.

I think "responsibility" is overrated in this situation. People are stupid, and they're doubly stupid about birth control. You get drunk and hot and heavy, and forget your rubber one night and bam. Baby jail.
Conservatives are stupid. They preach about responsibility, but when it's their teen who done (literally) screwed up, and that abortion starts looking like an *unfortunate but necessary exception* Buncha side talking jackasses there.
And there you’d be wrong. Adoption or keeping the child is the only options I’ve ever seen considered. Some of actually care about the life of innocent children. There are plenty of people who aren’t hypocrites.

We'll have to take your word for it. Talk is cheap on the internet.

Quote
The fact that you equate a child with jail is telling. Babies are miracles. You know what, if it happens in your family… get in touch. I’ll take the baby myself or find another family who would be more than happy to take them. There are so so many couples looking to adopt and who wait years or even seek children from overseas who would take in all these children that the idea that you would be “condemned” to raising a child is ridiculous.

It's a joke. Based on the very real situation of fucked up child support laws towards men. I dropped it in there on a whim, not out of any deep psychological motivation.

Quote
People do stupid things, sure. They generally learn their lessons when there are consequences though. Several months of discomfort then giving the child to a loving family is a heck of a consequence to teach that lesson.

Well, the consequences of illegal abortion were dangerous abortions performed by sketchy "doctors", and the eventual establishment of Roe v Wade as a response.
So there are consequences going all around here.



The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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Ratman_tf

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #658 on: May 09, 2022, 12:12:41 AM »
Alright, you crosseyed goat fuckers.

I think "responsibility" is overrated in this situation. People are stupid, and they're doubly stupid about birth control. You get drunk and hot and heavy, and forget your rubber one night and bam. Baby jail.
Conservatives are stupid. They preach about responsibility, but when it's their teen who done (literally) screwed up, and that abortion starts looking like an *unfortunate but necessary exception* Buncha side talking jackasses there.

Meanwhile we regress into hot lysol abortions and dead women on the deck because the program of shame doesn't work to keep their legs closed, but does work to put money in the pockets of back-alley abortionists. That's how you dumbasses got Roe v Wade in the first place.

I think the general consensus is a decent one. The mistake the activist left made was in trying to turn abortion into some kind of women's rights issue. Now, they have to go all the way, and cheer about it. But they built their prescedent on quicksand and now instead of proposing a better law, they just harass judges because they're mad.

And I'm darkly amused at all the pro-lifers who are happy to let this fall back into states rights, knowing full well that some states will make abortion even more accessible. I guess those dead babies are a price they're willing to pay...

Damn dude, you nailed it. Respect.

Keep your respect. I don't want it.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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SHARK

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Re: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #659 on: May 09, 2022, 02:18:42 AM »
And now we’re back to slut shaming.

Greetings!

Sluts *should* be shamed, and relentlessly. They should be shamed and condemned throughout society, at every opportunity, instead of having "Slut Walks" and having sluts and Thottery celebrated and promoted everywhere.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

But SHARK, *you* were a slut.

Greetings!

What I was or wasn't doing has nothing to do with how women brainwashed by Feminism have become total Thots and have championed divorce, "Hook Up Culture" and glorified being single whore mommies.

*I* have also always been prepared to take responsibility for my actions. I have never insisted on any woman getting an abortion, nor have I ever encouraged any woman to get an abortion. It's about taking responsibility for your actions.

The vast majority of women, in particular--do not. Hence the hordes of women and man-pussies in support of Abortion.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security bred from familiar things and familiar ways. It narrows the mind. Weakens the body. And robs the soul of spirit and determination. Comfort is neither welcome nor tolerated here."

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