It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?

[Shrieking Banshee]

How real a motivation is matters because it determines, in part, how much a person or group will persist when they face resistance and tribulation.

Thank goodness that determining the purity of motivation is easily calculable using the motivometer. Whatever I see that your larping at this point.
As much as I loath Social Justice, on a intelectual and personal level, Im not gonna be a edgy enough boi to call them 'Creatures'. Its a sticking point for your ego, at which point you pretty much disprove your own point.

I see no further way this conversation will really progress once personal ego gets involved.

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Well, America certainly has been divided. This division has been fostered and promoted continuously by the Communists within our midst. The Communists have been working for 50 years to bring America down. They started by overtaking our universities, then our grade schools, then the Movie Industry, Music, and the Media. Meanwhile, their brainwashed, cock-sucking fellow travelers and rebels also sowed division by embracing feminism, abortion, divorce, and attacking the Institutions of Marriage, the Family, and the Church. Then they have pushed and wormed their way into politics, the military, and now the police. The military and Law Enforcement are the last bastions of an older, traditional America.

Too many Americans have slept, have coddled and accepted the fucking Communists, the Liberals, the SJW's, the Race-baiting demagogues and rebels. Step by step, every institution of society has been corrupted, subverted, and transformed into weak, gooey, fucked up Communist ideology. So, this is what you get. Division, oppression, rebellion, and chaos. Then will come the globalist, Communist tyranny. The rebels will overthrow our society, and continue to oppress, and "cleanse" it of everything they deem "offensive."

This is how tyranny takes over.

Because in the past, too many people didn't want to argue, they didn't want to fight, they didn't want to offend anyone. They didn't want to do the hard work of standing strong, and keeping our society and our culture safe and free from the Communist scum.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

[oggsmash]

It's a question of what level of violence indicates a lead in to actual civil war. Again, the Rodney King riots had 63 people killed and 2383 people injured -- which is considerably larger than 18 and 85. The Rodney King riots were also quite reasonably described as a breakdown of law and order.

Those are small compared to actual civil wars, though. My father was in the Korean War - where millions upon millions died. Heck, the province of Chihuahua has about one-third the population of Chicago, and it averaged over 17 murders every day last year.

The question is the *trend* of violence and disorder. It's horrible that these murders have happened, but the overall trend has been decreased violent crime since the 1990s.

  So one of the worst ground zero for cartel drug wars has more murders than Chicago, and Chicago has a considerably higher murder rate than Rio.  Moot point.  You are talking about an entire LA riot versus 24 hours as a stat as well.  I also only mentioned gunshot deaths and injury only.  I am certain more people were hurt other than those just shot.   This is widespread and frigging Seattle has surrendered to shitbirds.    Warnings to civil war based on death alone is also foolish, because the point of a war is not to kill, it is to control and remove resistance and opposition.   Seems there is a radical side that is getting that without having to do alot of bleeding or killing.   I also noticed you did not address how the 90's rates of violence were curbed by that racist crime bill.    I am sure you will be treated well in a few years so long as you bend the knee appropriately.

[Zirunel]

Explain what no partition means.   Because that solution to two sides that can not live together looks alot like just leave it as it is.  Which is sort of not an answer.  Expound on the solutions in a no partition, no war scenario and I can answer.

No partition (+no boogaloo) is there because it is a logically necessary alternative if we are all correct that you can't have both partition and no boogaloo.

What that alternative specifically looks like is tbd, although yes I expect one option under that alternative is "leave things as they are."

[oggsmash]

As to which side is righteous, the fact is I dont care.  I care about what is best for my family.  One side of the argument is putting obstacles up to the future for my kids, as many as they can, because of their skin pigment.   How much of that, exactly should I tolerate?  How much more does my kid need to outperform another to get a spot at an academic institution?   How much above the outstanding will my son have to be on paper to get a foot in a door?   Sorry you keep pushing that sort of shit and you will get what you deserve.  Right now, it seems the mayor and the Chief of police in Seattle are getting fed a dose of shit from people they thought they were catering too.  Where does that end?  Does anyone think people who do shit like that are ever appeased?   Past revolutions were no where near as good at shaming or putting people in fear of losing their livelihood as these shitbags.   That is why there is far less violence.   Violence is not and has never been the point of an insurrection, civil war, or rebellion.  The point is winning control, and the more winning you can do without killing and fighting the better.   If you do not see Seattle as a massive problem, whoever you are, then we will never see eye to eye as to what happens now.  If there is a popping off point I hope everyone is as safe as they can be.

[oggsmash]

No partition (+no boogaloo) is there because it is a logically necessary alternative if we are all correct that you can't have both partition and no boogaloo.

What that alternative specifically looks like is tbd, although yes I expect one option under that alternative is "leave things as they are."

  I think leave things as they are is going to circle back to breakin 2.   I need an option to give my thoughts on.  Toss me one.

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Well, people better wake the fuck up, and get serious about cleaning house, unity, and law and order. More and more people are seeing signs of coming war, of rebellion, and chaos. More and more people don't see this ending peacefully. The Liberals and Communists are more violent, and opposed to our culture, our religion, and our ancient Republican ways. So, since they can't shut the fuck up and accept that a whole lot of us don't agree with them, then a point will come when people are tired of oppression, and shaming, and cock-sucking Communist rebellion and cultural tyranny, and the erosion of rights, our Constitution, and Law and Order. Then blood will pour. Then we will see true blood and death in this country. Lots of it, and there won't be anywhere to hide, and no way to escape.

People are arming up like crazy, and getting ready.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

[Alathon]

The USA is divided beyond hope of healing and we have no common ground with our enemies.
The Left has their vision of future and the Right will not submit.
I do not want Boogaloo.
I do not want civil war.
But its clearly high time for the USA to balkanize.
I don't know how that happens peacefully.

Any ideas?

Geographically, here's a good representation what American politics look like:



The Right might choose to accept partition, but the left-commies cannot accept it on both ideological and pragmatic grounds.  They have to win or their shitties full of parasitic populations cannot be sustained.

[Zirunel]

I think leave things as they are is going to circle back to breakin 2.   I need an option to give my thoughts on.  Toss me one.

Yes, it's true, if the op can't have both the items on his wishlist, then one of the wishes must be set aside. The question is, which one.

So I think it's obvious why no boogaloo would be on the wishlist. But maybe the partition needs explaining. To figure out no-partition options, I need to know what you'd hope to achieve with partition? Is it that things would be better if people were segregated by voting preference so all the red people are over here and all the blue people are over there? Or is it more complicated than that?

[oggsmash]

Yes, it's true, if the op can't have both the items on his wishlist, then one of the wishes must be set aside. The question is, which one.

So I think it's obvious why no boogaloo would be on the wishlist. But maybe the partition needs explaining. To figure out no-partition options, I need to know what you'd hope to achieve with partition? Is it that things would be better if people were segregated by voting preference so all the red people are over here and all the blue people are over there? Or is it more complicated than that?

          I thought this was no partition question though?  Partition was simple, red on way, blue the other.  Trade, travel visa, immigration each side can establish as they choose.  No moving from one to the other for a good long while though.

[RandyB]

Greetings!

Well, America certainly has been divided. This division has been fostered and promoted continuously by the Communists within our midst. The Communists have been working for 50 years to bring America down. They started by overtaking our universities, then our grade schools, then the Movie Industry, Music, and the Media. Meanwhile, their brainwashed, cock-sucking fellow travelers and rebels also sowed division by embracing feminism, abortion, divorce, and attacking the Institutions of Marriage, the Family, and the Church. Then they have pushed and wormed their way into politics, the military, and now the police. The military and Law Enforcement are the last bastions of an older, traditional America.

Too many Americans have slept, have coddled and accepted the fucking Communists, the Liberals, the SJW's, the Race-baiting demagogues and rebels. Step by step, every institution of society has been corrupted, subverted, and transformed into weak, gooey, fucked up Communist ideology. So, this is what you get. Division, oppression, rebellion, and chaos. Then will come the globalist, Communist tyranny. The rebels will overthrow our society, and continue to oppress, and "cleanse" it of everything they deem "offensive."

This is how tyranny takes over.

Because in the past, too many people didn't want to argue, they didn't want to fight, they didn't want to offend anyone. They didn't want to do the hard work of standing strong, and keeping our society and our culture safe and free from the Communist scum.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Communism is a label. It is an accurate label as used over the last century and a half or so. The ideas and ideals long predate the label. Even the French Revolution didn't pioneer all of what that label now covers.

Insofar as the label is sufficient for now, it is those ideas and ideals that are the danger. We shouldn't let the label be a bogeyman - we should know the enemy that the label applies to, so that the enemy doesn't return in another guise.

[tenbones]

Sure it's a label but it also stands as an ideal that ideologues are shooting for.

Just like I say I'm down with Free Market Capitalism. We don't have that either. Nor do I personally believe Free Market Capitalism should extend beyond national borders (at least until we have Post-scarcity settling in which is many years away).

But we're seeing those clash of ideologies on the left - slamming headlong with one another on the left, and cumulatively attempting to dismantle the foundations of this country (and I'd extend that to western culture writ-large) as that ideology has intended from its inception. The mere attempt at going there (to Communism) is going to have a commensurate death-toll. And we may be seeing that now.

It's hard to ignore.

[Zirunel]

I thought this was no partition question though?  Partition was simple, red on way, blue the other.  Trade, travel visa, immigration each side can establish as they choose.  No moving from one to the other for a good long while though.

I will try to get to No-partition options, and feel free to keep nudging me that way, that's cool, I just need to know why partition appeals, what problems it solves and why you think it will solve them. Then maybe I can think of no-partition options that give you some or all of what you want.

So it does sound like the back-and-forth of democracy no longer does the job for you? You want a more uniform sovereign state where everyone belongs to the same party?

And I'm guessing here, not trying to put words in your mouth, but maybe more than voting preferences, you want to live in a state with more common shared cultural values?

EDITED TO ADD: on reflection, I think "one-party state" and "shared cultural values" can both sound loaded and I have no reason to put either loading on your ideas, so sorry for that. Maybe you like one or both or neither, help me out here.

[jhkim]

The question is the *trend* of violence and disorder. It's horrible that these murders have happened, but the overall trend has been decreased violent crime since the 1990s.

Warnings to civil war based on death alone is also foolish, because the point of a war is not to kill, it is to control and remove resistance and opposition.   Seems there is a radical side that is getting that without having to do alot of bleeding or killing.   I also noticed you did not address how the 90's rates of violence were curbed by that racist crime bill.    I am sure you will be treated well in a few years so long as you bend the knee appropriately.

Past revolutions were no where near as good at shaming or putting people in fear of losing their livelihood as these shitbags.   That is why there is far less violence.   Violence is not and has never been the point of an insurrection, civil war, or rebellion.  The point is winning control, and the more winning you can do without killing and fighting the better.   If you do not see Seattle as a massive problem, whoever you are, then we will never see eye to eye as to what happens now.  If there is a popping off point I hope everyone is as safe as they can be.

If control is won with no killing and fighting, then it isn't civil war or revolution -- it's political change. It might be political change you don't like, but democracy always has people on the losing side of votes.

As to which side is righteous, the fact is I dont care.  I care about what is best for my family.  One side of the argument is putting obstacles up to the future for my kids, as many as they can, because of their skin pigment.   How much of that, exactly should I tolerate?  How much more does my kid need to outperform another to get a spot at an academic institution?   How much above the outstanding will my son have to be on paper to get a foot in a door?   Sorry you keep pushing that sort of shit and you will get what you deserve.  Right now, it seems the mayor and the Chief of police in Seattle are getting fed a dose of shit from people they thought they were catering too.  Where does that end?  Does anyone think people who do shit like that are ever appeased?

I understand that you feel discriminated against because of the color of your skin. My impression is that you're white, and feel that the pendulum has swung in the other direction, and now white kids are discriminated against. I know that you want what's best for your kid -- but the big question is what is best?

Discrimination based on skin color has happened before in the history of America. If you were to go back in time and talk to a black father in the 1950s -- what would you recommend to him? He rightly thinks that his son is denied opportunity because of his skin pigment. He's torn between some blacks calling for non-violent resistance, and those calling for violent resistance to oppression. What would you suggest to him would be best for his family?

[Ratman_tf]

If control is won with no killing and fighting, then it isn't civil war or revolution -- it's political change. It might be political change you don't like, but democracy always has people on the losing side of votes.

Like Jim Crow laws.