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Author Topic: It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?  (Read 5466 times)

Spinachcat

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The USA is divided beyond hope of healing and we have no common ground with our enemies.
The Left has their vision of future and the Right will not submit.
I do not want Boogaloo.
I do not want civil war.
But its clearly high time for the USA to balkanize.
I don't know how that happens peacefully.

Any ideas?

spon

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It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2020, 06:34:26 am »
I don't think the words "Balkan" and "peaceful" go together. At least not if Europe is the model. I would expect some unpleasantness down the road if the US broke up - "political cleansing" perhaps? Would the federal government allow it - whether Dem or Repub don't they make the most money with the US as a single entity? Not much pork to go around if you're a poor independent state. It would have to be grass-roots led, as the top would not be interested. Is that enough?

Snark Knight

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It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2020, 07:44:47 am »
The Right will not submit? The Right's been giving ground for decades in the name of so called 'compromise' (which just ends up being quiet submission).
« Last Edit: June 09, 2020, 07:48:57 am by Snark Knight »

Brad

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It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2020, 09:19:39 am »
Commiefornia - Cali, Washing State, Oregon, maybe Colorado, possibly parts of AZ and NM depending on if people leave before it goes down, parts of Idaho
Texlahoana - Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, maybe Arkansas
The SOUTH - Bama, Georgia, Mississippi, maybe SC too
Floridamanland - Florida is diverse enough and weird enough it might survive alone
The Commie South - Virginia, NC, eastern Tennessee
Ohio Basin - Ohio, Kentucky, Western Tennesee
Damned Yankee Land - You know where...except oddly enough probably excluding upstate NY and Maine
Leave us alone - ND, SD, Montana, Wyoming, Kansas, maybe Iowa
Chicagoland - Loosely affiliated city-states of Madison, Chicago, and Milwaukee
Mormon Paradise - Utah, southern Idaho
Vegas - Autonomous, Reno erects a wall around itself like Berlin to keep out the Californians
Missouri would most likely be its own state, given that they hate Kansas but really share nothing in common with anyone else in the area

But that's like some idealized RPG Balkanization...realistically, everyone in the rural areas walls off the liberal cities and it's Escape from NY, but replace NY with every large city run by Democrats.

"Peacefully"...the only way I can see that happening is if so many people die from a blight or something catastrophic (LOL @ Corona) that they're forced to become more self-reliant and the population contracts so much interstate trade becomes somewhat stagnant.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1133204
I do not want Boogaloo.

Neither did George Washington, but sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do. Make sure you at least have a Hawaiian shirt on hand just in case.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2020, 09:24:07 am by Brad »

Ghostmaker

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It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2020, 09:41:59 am »
Not happening. At least, not peacefully.

Kurt Schlichter has written some novels about the fallout from a 'national divorce', and I think he's optimistic about the results. The liberal left simply cannot allow the majority red states to leave anyways. Why, they might get the idea they can do what they want, not what their betters in LA decree!

Shrieking Banshee

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It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2020, 10:34:56 am »
From a international perspective....It would be Catastrophic at the very least. A balkanized USA could not stand to China or Russia (Russias not as tough but still).

From a national perspective....It could not happen without voilence unless the liberal states wanted to dump the red states.

Zirunel

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It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2020, 10:48:40 am »
Quote from: Spinachcat;1133204
The USA is divided beyond hope of healing and we have no common ground with our enemies.
The Left has their vision of future and the Right will not submit.
I do not want Boogaloo.
I do not want civil war.
But its clearly high time for the USA to balkanize.
I don't know how that happens peacefully.

Any ideas?

In a democracy, our solution is usually something we call "elections."

 Really, as has been noted, balkanization and peaceful don't play well together. And if by balkanization you mean hostile groups hopelessly intertwined on the ground, then you got it already. Not many states are overwhelmingly blue or overwhelmingly red, your conservative states are peppered with liberal cities, your liberal states have conservative hinterlands. Whichever side you are on, your "enemies" live among you. They don't neatly live way off in some other state. You can't disentangle all that with simple secessionist fantasies.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2020, 10:52:27 am by Zirunel »

Shrieking Banshee

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It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2020, 11:09:00 am »
Really in my opinion its time to defund the universities. Do it and watch tensions crumble (over 10 years or so).

DocJones

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It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2020, 12:20:46 pm »
Quote from: Brad;1133252
Commiefornia - Cali, Washing State, Oregon, maybe Colorado, possibly parts of AZ and NM depending on if people leave before it goes down, parts of Idaho
Texlahoana - Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, maybe Arkansas
The SOUTH - Bama, Georgia, Mississippi, maybe SC too
Floridamanland - Florida is diverse enough and weird enough it might survive alone
The Commie South - Virginia, NC, eastern Tennessee
Ohio Basin - Ohio, Kentucky, Western Tennesee
Damned Yankee Land - You know where...except oddly enough probably excluding upstate NY and Maine
Leave us alone - ND, SD, Montana, Wyoming, Kansas, maybe Iowa
Chicagoland - Loosely affiliated city-states of Madison, Chicago, and Milwaukee
Mormon Paradise - Utah, southern Idaho
Vegas - Autonomous, Reno erects a wall around itself like Berlin to keep out the Californians
Missouri would most likely be its own state, given that they hate Kansas but really share nothing in common with anyone else in the area

I can't wait for the campaign source book.  :-)

Snark Knight

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It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2020, 01:09:57 pm »
Quote from: Zirunel;1133267
In a democracy, our solution is usually something we call "elections."
My guess is that their next step will be to legalise a way of being able to cross-reference names with which candidate they voted for. The way the Left keeps getting blindsided by things like Trump and Brexit because the silent majority don't want to risk their careers/lives on speaking Wrong Think aloud, which they can do in the voting booth. This will naturally lead them to try and 'give nazis no safe places to hide', though it will probably be under the guise of preventing voter fraud/foreign agents.

Quote from: DocJones;1133279
I can't wait for the campaign source book.  :-)
Well there is a new edition of Twilight 2000 coming out...
« Last Edit: June 09, 2020, 01:12:00 pm by Snark Knight »

oggsmash

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It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2020, 02:02:38 pm »
I mention amicable divorce 5 months ago and everyone felt it was a reach.   Now it seems like the recent events have made it a bit more acceptable.   Only way it happens is We have a system of city states.  They will likely be blue, and they can live by their rules.  Will never happen though, as cities are WAY too fragile to exist on their own.  The states could agree that people of a particular "faith" get their one time chance to relocate or hold their peace, which will not work.  I see no way it happens without a vigorous fight.  I suspect where the military at large sides will determine the outcome.  Given the voting habits of the military and especially combat troops, it is already decided how that goes.  Then I guess it depends on how gracious the "winners" are regarding the next move, whether it is subjugation or separation.  

    As for standing up to China or Russia, who gives a shit?  The USA has not stood up to china for over 20 years till recently, and most of that is theatre.  If Europe has issue with China or Russa, then they should put money where mouth is and work that out.  Less foreign entanglements is not in any way unattractive to me.  Besides, half the USA military is still about 5 times china or russia.  IMO we have waaay too much military as it is.  Let's give what the founding fathers had in mind regarding military.

oggsmash

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It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2020, 02:04:59 pm »
Quote from: Snark Knight;1133287
My guess is that their next step will be to legalise a way of being able to cross-reference names with which candidate they voted for. The way the Left keeps getting blindsided by things like Trump and Brexit because the silent majority don't want to risk their careers/lives on speaking Wrong Think aloud, which they can do in the voting booth. This will naturally lead them to try and 'give nazis no safe places to hide', though it will probably be under the guise of preventing voter fraud/foreign agents.


Well there is a new edition of Twilight 2000 coming out...

  Yeah, leftism has already been fighting a war, whether mining twitter for 8 year old tweets or digging through campaign contributions on referendums to de person people.  At some point I do feel, if you give enough people no job, create atmosphere where they are unemployable, they will take some form of action other than binge drinking or suicide.

oggsmash

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It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2020, 02:05:55 pm »
Quote from: Zirunel;1133267
In a democracy, our solution is usually something we call "elections."

 Really, as has been noted, balkanization and peaceful don't play well together. And if by balkanization you mean hostile groups hopelessly intertwined on the ground, then you got it already. Not many states are overwhelmingly blue or overwhelmingly red, your conservative states are peppered with liberal cities, your liberal states have conservative hinterlands. Whichever side you are on, your "enemies" live among you. They don't neatly live way off in some other state. You can't disentangle all that with simple secessionist fantasies.

  With simple fantasies?  Yes you can.  With nonviolent fantasies?  No you can not.

Zirunel

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It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2020, 02:13:22 pm »
Quote from: oggsmash;1133297
With simple fantasies?  Yes you can.  With nonviolent fantasies?  No you can not.

Ok fair enough, the world has seen some simple fantasies of partition and "cleansing" turn into reality, so yes, you're right. It can be done, but again you are right, not without violence. Arguably they don't end up being simple at all because of that, and they don't really end up being solutions. At least, not "final solutions."

oggsmash

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It's time for the USA to balkanize. How can that happen peacefully?
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2020, 02:18:36 pm »
There is also the problem that once an ideological army is formed, the last thing the leader of such a force wants to do it break it up, so new enemies are usually quickly found and fighting with them started up.   Smart people who read any history, if there were any in leadership positions in the USA, would see that, and understand, amicable divorce and paying people off to move to their ideologically favored spot is best.  Not simple of course, but the simple answer is a really ugly answer.