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Author Topic: "It's only censorship if the government does it"  (Read 11683 times)

Headless

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"It's only censorship if the government does it"
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2016, 10:41:14 PM »
Maybe I am joining the conversation late.  I read the linked article.  That's defiantly a case of censorship.  What the issue?

Baulderstone

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"It's only censorship if the government does it"
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2016, 12:03:16 AM »
Focusing on the thread title, it seems like this statement is a mutated version of the idea that something is only a violation of First Amendment if the government is doing it. The First Amendment only protects against laws being made against free speech. The statement "It is only a violation of the First Amendment if the US government is doing it" is actually true.

It seems some chuckleheads have decided that since a violation of the First Amendment can be censorship (although it could also be religious persecution or preventing assemblies as well) that all censorship must be a violation of the First Amendment. Therefore, "It's only censorship if the government does it". This is dumb, of course. Censorship exists in many forms other than government regulation.

Headless

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"It's only censorship if the government does it"
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2016, 12:19:08 AM »
Ok.  I think I am following now.  So is all the indignation at the concussed teen age footballers trying to make their country better?  Or the school board punishing the little twerps for hating their country. "I didn't rip that freedom out of the cold dead hands of the viet cong so you could use it to do dumb stuff!"

crkrueger

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"It's only censorship if the government does it"
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2016, 12:33:22 AM »
Quote from: Warboss Squee;925509
Why is it that the group that denies censorship unless it's at the hands of the government, will gleefully dox you, get you banned from twitter/facebook/youtube and even go so far as to have mass call ins to your place of employment to get you fired for having the audacity of a opinion they find 'problematic'?


Because they're totalitarian cultists?
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Crüesader
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"It's only censorship if the government does it"
« Reply #34 on: October 19, 2016, 03:10:52 AM »
Quote from: Headless;925644
Ok.  I think I am following now.  So is all the indignation at the concussed teen age footballers trying to make their country better?  Or the school board punishing the little twerps for hating their country. "I didn't rip that freedom out of the cold dead hands of the viet cong so you could use it to do dumb stuff!"


If you think 'kneeling' makes you country better, then you might be part of the problem.  

Besides, it'd help if they weren't 'kneeling' over some dead criminals.  That's not murder, injustice, or a tragedy- it's fucking housekeeping.  

It's not like any of these degenerate retards wait for the facts, most of them are just supporting Black Lives Matter because they want free stuff and an excuse to destroy things.  I'll be happy when we can treat it like a proper terrorist organization and hunt them down like rabid dogs.

Plus, I still laugh now that I know it destroyed the career of a woman in the Navy.  I hope she spends her days in squalor.

Spinachcat

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"It's only censorship if the government does it"
« Reply #35 on: October 19, 2016, 03:37:28 AM »
Forcing people to do the Pledge Allegiance dance isn't going to make them patriotic.

Mumbling rote prayers in church doesn't inspire faith.

But high school protesters look silly.

Quote from: Crüesader;925664
most of them are just supporting Black Lives Matter because they want free stuff and an excuse to destroy things.

That's not the motivation of most high school kids. Sure, they are low on facts and they buy into the dominant narrative that all BLM protests involve victims of injustice, but most of the kids are sincere about their concern that something isn't right when they see so many unarmed black people being shot.

Headless

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"It's only censorship if the government does it"
« Reply #36 on: October 19, 2016, 04:21:13 AM »
Quote from: Crüesader;925664
If you think 'kneeling' makes you country better, then you might be the problem.


I happen to think protestors are patriots.  They risk a beating or sometimes their life, their jobs, the respect of their community, to make positive change in their country.

What did you ever do?

Crüesader
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"It's only censorship if the government does it"
« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2016, 04:59:07 AM »
Quote from: Headless;925678
I happen to think protestors are patriots.  They risk a beating or sometimes their life, their jobs, the respect of their community, to make positive change in their country.

What did you ever do?

Enlisted for sixteen years.  
Got a college education.
Obeyed the law.
Voted.
Volunteered at the animal shelter.
Volunteered at the Special Olympics.
Volunteered at a soup kitchen.
Volunteered at the retirement home.
Volunteered at the VA.
Volunteered at the USO.
Donated blood.
Gave to charity and food drives.
Didn't burn shit.
Didn't loot shit.
Didn't attack people of another race in the streets.
Didn't support dead criminals.



Oh, and 'protests' and 'riots' are different things if you're not retarded.  Most of them deserve a beating or worse.

And not all protestors are patriots.  Protesting does not make you a hero if you're protesting something like BLM is.

Quote from: Spinachcat;925670
That's not the motivation of most high school kids. Sure, they are low on facts and they buy into the dominant narrative that all BLM protests involve victims of injustice, but most of the kids are sincere about their concern that something isn't right when they see so many unarmed black people being shot.

The last few have been actually fucking armed.  The one that started all this tried to grab a cop's gun.  This isn't a problem, it's housekeeping.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2016, 05:07:42 AM by Crüesader »

yosemitemike

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"It's only censorship if the government does it"
« Reply #38 on: October 19, 2016, 06:08:34 AM »
I would point out that private entities like the Comics Code Authority or the Motion Picture Association of America that had a significant effect on content for a significant period were created to head off threatened government regulation.  The only reason they were created was because of mounting pressure on government to step in and control content.  

Quote from: jhkim;925580
Obviously, people have different tolerances for different things. However, just because something is more normal doesn't mean that it is right. For ages, segregation was normal.

It has nothing to do with whether it is right in some general sense or not.  The only thing that matters is whether people are willing to put up with it or not.  If they aren't, they can quit.

Quote from: jhkim;925580
Yes, my hypothetical examples were pretty unrealistic. Let me try a more realistic example:  Someone works at a hospice funded by Christian charities, and meetings all end with a prayer where everyone is expected to bow their heads respectfully even though they aren't required to pray. If that one seems believable, then picture in another place where a hospice is funded by Islamic charities, and at the appointed times each day, everyone does their daily prayers, and those who don't believe are still expected to bow their heads respectfully towards Mecca.

Now you are bringing in a protected class which changes everything.  This is not really a comparable example.

Quote from: jhkim;925580
Regarding the Russian flag, I could potentially picture it if it were a small Russian-language school that caters to the kids of Russian embassy workers. They hire local teachers, though, and an American teacher complains that she is required to swear to the Russian flag the same way that the Russian kids are. Should the school (which is technically a private American company) have the right to make her do this or be fired?

Were they up front about this being a condition of employment?  If they were, then yes.  Someone took that job knowing they would be expected to do that and then refused to do it.  

Quote from: jhkim;925580
Personally, I generally agree with Brendan that all of these are going too far.

Does any company actually do any of these hypothetical things?
« Last Edit: October 19, 2016, 06:38:16 AM by yosemitemike »
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Alzrius

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"It's only censorship if the government does it"
« Reply #39 on: October 19, 2016, 10:21:54 AM »
Quote from: Krimson;925519
Has anyone here then reported OBS to the ACLU, or filed any formal complaint or taken any sort of action whatsoever? Or is this just griping about how you don't like how someone else runs their business?

Wow, there's so much here that's wrong-headed I barely know where to begin:

  • While a business can be a private pressure group, they're more generally composed of private citizens who come together to form an ad hoc group that has the express purpose of censoring something, rather than being a business entity.
  • I'm always amused to hear people talk about "reporting" someone to the ACLU, as though they had some sort of oversight powers rather than being a private nonprofit group. The worst that they can do is file litigation on someone's behalf, and even that is a rarity; usually they'll just try to raise awareness about an issue, and even that's only going to go for fairly major activities.
  • I didn't mention OBS at all, so I'm scratching my head as to why that's the first thing you jumped to.
If you want to talk about complaints that can be leveled against OBS' - complaints that are entirely based upon ethics and morals, rather than legality - that's fine, but don't act like you weren't the one who brought that up out of nowhere.
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Sommerjon

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"It's only censorship if the government does it"
« Reply #40 on: October 19, 2016, 11:47:23 AM »
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;925476
If getting a well paying job was always a certainty, I'd agree. But I know too many people who stay in jobs they hate, work for bosses they can't stand, and work in occupations that require them to do things they don't agree with, because people need to eat and pay the rent and good paying jobs are hard to come by.

No.  Living the lifestyle you want takes more money than you are willing to admit
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Bedrockbrendan

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"It's only censorship if the government does it"
« Reply #41 on: October 19, 2016, 12:15:55 PM »
Quote from: Sommerjon;925726
No.  Living the lifestyle you want takes more money than you are willing to admit


Sommerjon, I am honestly not even sure what your point is.

Sommerjon

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"It's only censorship if the government does it"
« Reply #42 on: October 19, 2016, 02:56:48 PM »
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;925730
Sommerjon, I am honestly not even sure what your point is.

Dollar amount Please.  You keep talking about good paying jobs are hard to come by, but never give an amount.
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Frankly, who gives a fuck. :idunno:

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Gronan of Simmerya

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"It's only censorship if the government does it"
« Reply #43 on: October 19, 2016, 03:10:11 PM »
What's the Old Bchool Senaissance?

(OBS)
You should go to GaryCon.  Period.

The rules can't cure stupid, and the rules can't cure asshole.

Bedrockbrendan

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"It's only censorship if the government does it"
« Reply #44 on: October 19, 2016, 03:11:07 PM »
Quote from: Sommerjon;925754
Dollar amount Please.  You keep talking about good paying jobs are hard to come by, but never give an amount.


Well, okay, I just don't know why my personal lifestyle was at issue, given that I was talking about other people. My lifestyle is pretty spartan.

I didn't have a specific number in mind.

Do you think good paying jobs are easy to come by presently? (in 2006 they seemed to be pretty prevalent, not so much today).