Israel v Hamas

[Scooter]

I was pretty amazed to see a group with Queers for Palestine. Same sex relations and marriages are banned in Gaza, and punishable by 10 years in prison.

More proof that leftists are yearning to be Darwin Award winners.

[Heavy Josh]

It's the other way around:

Ugh. You're right. Was tired yesterday when I replied. 

[Scooter]

Me, being a Maya/Spaniard mutt wouldn't dream of voting for a white supremacist, they hate me for not being 100% white.
By the same token I wouldn't vote left, they hate me for not being brown enough.

The last Presidential candidate the KKK endorsed was Hillary Clinton.

[Heavy Josh]

I am watching how holocaust denial began, live on Twitter/X right now. How evidence of babies and kids being murdered at and near that music festival in Israel, by Hamas, is being spun in a very "show us the gas chambers" sort of way. How eyewitness testimony was not enough. How first responder emergency personnel (not IDF) saying that's what they saw was not enough. And now, how actual direct photos are not enough and claims they were made by AI. How literally Hamas themselves not in any way denying they did this other than one Hamas officer claiming it was Palestinian citizens who followed them through one of the fence breaches that did it and not them, which isn't a denial it happened either. And yet, so many online are denying it happened because it doesn't fit their ideological view of the world. I assume this is what cognitive dissonance looks like.

I don't think this is cognitive dissonance. What you're seeing is antisemitism, best explained as a very adaptable and old conspiracy theory. Regardless of where the antisemites are on the political spectrum, they believe themselves to be the victims of some insidious and menacing Jewish power. No amount of evidence of Hamas' atrocities will suffice, because there's always a conspiracy of Jewish power behind the accusations against Hamas.

I am watching Egypt deny entry to citizens of Gaza, literally the only actual way out of the area to avoid Israel coming after Hamas, and get zero push-back for that at all from the world community. It's the one highway out, and Egypt has decided to close it, while the UN demands Israel not defend itself and not attack even the positions firing rockets into Israel, much less attempt to rescue their kidnapped citizens (some of whom are not even Israel citizens but just tourists from other nations who were kidnapped).

This decision on the part of Egypt is a very grim tiding of what's to come. But I find it shocking that more people who consider themselves allies of the Palestinians are not vociferous in their condemnation Egypt. It's just not being talked about by anyone aside from supporters of Israel in the war against Hamas. If people claim that the Israelis are committing genocide in Gaza, wouldn't they want to criticize the country that is preventing refugees from seeking shelter? Or is this a twisted sacrificing of the Palestinians, to later be able to accuse Israel of atrocities?

I feel like the world has gone insane.

Yep.

[Heavy Josh]

whoops double post

[Chris24601]

I'll just repeat what I replied to a Jewish friend whose sister served over there about the situation. It covers everything I have to say...

"Yeah, it's a mess. You can't appease evil, it must be stamped out.

"The Palestinian people would have been better off if Hamas had long ago been ground out instead of appeased. They'd have hospitals, schools, plumbing, power... all things Hamas took the resources provided for and put to terror.

"I'm blaming the idiots demanding a "two-state solution" when non-Palastinian Muslims in Israel are able to hold seats in government and enjoy all the freedoms of being citizens.

"Instead we got decades of Hamas leaders oppressing and indoctrinating so many Palestinians to hate. It's a mistake that cost far too many lives and pushed things into a situation where the only way out is to kill even more.

"I feel bad for any innocent Palestinians, but it was their own leadership who brought this down on them and the IDF is warning civilians to get out of the area. The blame for all of this doesn't rest on Israel's shoulders.

"Wiping out Hamas now is the least bad option that will almost certainly save more innocent lives than it causes as collateral damage. It sucks that more innocents will die, but Hamas has made any better solution impossible.

"They killed more Jews in a day than any since the actual Holocaust. If not stopped they'll keep at it without remorse.

"The only mercy Hamas deserves in return is a swift death.

"My sympathies and prayers lie with the IDF soldiers who are going to, despite their best efforts, cause collateral harm to innocents.

"That they're likely going to blame themselves for that and not the monsters who put them in that position is proof of their humanity and why the soldiers are going to need every bit of support and understanding we can offer them afterwards."

[Scooter]

I'll just repeat what I replied to a Jewish friend whose sister served over there about the situation. It covers everything I have to say...

...

Not much else to say

[Exploderwizard]

I don't take "atrocities" shown on the media by either side at face value. This looks like another attampt to drag the US into another mid-east war. More grist for the military industrial complex mill. Ukraine didn't get the outrage call to arms reaction that they were hoping for so they went back to the tried and true terrorist model. IDF/Mossad is one of the best & most sophisticated intelligence networks in the world, and they have been living next to hostile neighbors for quite some time. What are the odds that they got caught with their pants down by a bunch of goat herders?

Does this mean I support Palestine? Fuck no. What is means is that you can always trust just about ANY government to throw its own people under the bus if it fits their agenda. The regular people on both sides of this are losers, and they always will be.

[Scooter]

Ukraine didn't get the outrage call to arms reaction that they were hoping for

There was never any call for US troops to go to Ukraine.

[Ratman_tf]

I'll just repeat what I replied to a Jewish friend whose sister served over there about the situation. It covers everything I have to say...

My take as well. With the addition of, We can't ignore or dismiss the Jew hatred prevailent in the Arab world, and have a realistic opinion about the situation.
Not all Arabs/Palestinians, but there's a lot who support Hamas and what they're doing.
Much less Hamas who are completely opposed to everything "Woke progressives" stand up for, and yet are given the "Oppression pass" to hate gays and Jews because Hamas and other terrorists are portrayed as the underdogs fighting against an evil empire.

[jhkim]

I'll just repeat what I replied to a Jewish friend whose sister served over there about the situation. It covers everything I have to say...

"Yeah, it's a mess. You can't appease evil, it must be stamped out.

"The Palestinian people would have been better off if Hamas had long ago been ground out instead of appeased. They'd have hospitals, schools, plumbing, power... all things Hamas took the resources provided for and put to terror.

"I'm blaming the idiots demanding a "two-state solution" when non-Palastinian Muslims in Israel are able to hold seats in government and enjoy all the freedoms of being citizens.

"Instead we got decades of Hamas leaders oppressing and indoctrinating so many Palestinians to hate. It's a mistake that cost far too many lives and pushed things into a situation where the only way out is to kill even more.

I agree with this completely. If the Palestinians had a path to Israeli citizenship in a one-state solution, then most of them would have become like the Muslim citizens of Israel. Hamas would never have gotten the fraction of the power they have if the regular people had a peaceful way out.

But as it has been, regular Palestinian civilians have had no path other than waiting for the negotiations for the two-state solution which have continually deadlocked, leaving them trapped in a ghetto, and they've had two generations grow up under continuous blockade and Hamas indoctrination.

Even if all of Hamas is killed off, that just means new oppressors just as bad will take their place unless there is a path forward for ordinary Palestinians.

[Scooter]

But as it has been, regular Palestinian civilians have had no path other than waiting for the negotiations for the two-state solution which have continually deadlocked, leaving them trapped in a ghetto, and they've had two generations grow up under continuous blockade and Hamas indoctrination.

Israel has offered MULTIPLE 2 state solutions there were workable. ALL rejected by the Pali's.  So, they have made their bed and now they will die in it.  Darwinism.

[Heavy Josh]

I agree with this completely. If the Palestinians had a path to Israeli citizenship in a one-state solution, then most of them would have become like the Muslim citizens of Israel. Hamas would never have gotten the fraction of the power they have if the regular people had a peaceful way out.

But as it has been, regular Palestinian civilians have had no path other than waiting for the negotiations for the two-state solution which have continually deadlocked, leaving them trapped in a ghetto, and they've had two generations grow up under continuous blockade and Hamas indoctrination.

Even if all of Hamas is killed off, that just means new oppressors just as bad will take their place unless there is a path forward for ordinary Palestinians.

There has never been a viable one-state solution. And there never will be, beyond the wildest fantasies of people so detached from the realities on the ground that they forget, or ignore, that:

1. Muslim fundamentalism pre-dates the Zionist movement. (This recent pogrom is actually how Islamic states have treated their Jewish minorities from time to time over the past 1400 years: raping, kidnapping, and murdering in Jewish communities)
2. The Palestinians rejected partition, and have rejected every peace offer since 1948, and
3. The Palestinians have never had a national movement, secular or Islamic, that has recognized the legitimacy of Jewish sovereignty in Israel. Ever.

A one-state solution is cloud cuckoo land. It sounds like you're blaming Israelis for the Islamist pogrom that they just suffered. Please stop.

[Scooter]

There has never been a viable one-state solution. And there never will be, beyond the wildest fantasies of people so detached from the realities on the ground that they forget, or ignore, that:

Of course not.  The ONLY people pushing for the one state solution are the terminally stupid and those that want Israel's Jews to be baked into dog kibble.

[Heavy Josh]

Of course not.  The ONLY people pushing for the one state solution are the terminally stupid and those that want Israel's Jews to be baked into dog kibble.

Don't tell them that Jewish dog kibble is an option. It's been a rough enough week already.