Is there any monster the SJWs don't see as Black People?

[RandyB]

Back on topic. You know, the one a few pages back...
Over on BGG they are at it again with a thread on how orcs are WACIST and as mentioned elsewhere here at least one designer has had his historical game denied because it had George Washington in it and you know George was WACIST! And other designers providing proof that why yes George is WACIST because he bought slaves.
Censoring games is going to spread.

Minor correction: "is spreading".

The Hyperbole Hysteria across all these threads looks even stupider than it already did.

[The Spaniard]

Get a load of this guy.  Talk about going to great lengths to make absolutely no sense...


https://hubpages.com/games-hobbies/Why-Do-Orc-Lives-Matter

[BoxCrayonTales]

Have you ever read The Last Ringbearer?


It takes the position that The Lord of the Rings is a literal racist tract, and that the orcs, trolls, goblins, etc were actually caricatures of... slavic peoples.

[jhkim]

Have you ever read The Last Ringbearer?

It takes the position that The Lord of the Rings is a literal racist tract, and that the orcs, trolls, goblins, etc were actually caricatures of... slavic peoples.

I haven't read it, but my son read it and talked about it with me. As he described it, it is a work of fiction taking the view that The Lord of the Rings is a history written by the victors. From that view, Tolkien's work is racist against orcs, but there's nothing there about real-world slavic people.

Having *fiction* where orcs are good doesn't inherently mean that one thinks Tolkien was racist against real-world people; any more than Tolkien having orcs be evil means that he was racist.

[Ghostmaker]

I haven't read it, but my son read it and talked about it with me. As he described it, it is a work of fiction taking the view that The Lord of the Rings is a history written by the victors. From that view, Tolkien's work is racist against orcs, but there's nothing there about real-world slavic people.

Having *fiction* where orcs are good doesn't inherently mean that one thinks Tolkien was racist against real-world people; any more than Tolkien having orcs be evil means that he was racist.

I read it. It's actually a pretty good read -- an alternate retelling of LOTR, in the same way Grendel and Eaters of the Dead retold the Beowulf saga.

[BoxCrayonTales]

I haven't read it, but my son read it and talked about it with me. As he described it, it is a work of fiction taking the view that The Lord of the Rings is a history written by the victors. From that view, Tolkien's work is racist against orcs, but there's nothing there about real-world slavic people.

I don't know if you already know this, but they're not literally orcs in LRB. LRB states that the orcs, goblins, trolls, etc are ordinary human beings whom the Red Book of Westmarch depicted as inhuman monsters.

They're not literally caricatures of slavic peoples, since LotR and LRB are mythical pre-history, but the author was pretty obviously trying to draw an allegory with the Nazi/Soviet conflict of WWII. With Mordor as the Soviets, and the Gondorians as the Nazis. This seems fairly common in the Russian LotR fandom.

Having *fiction* where orcs are good doesn't inherently mean that one thinks Tolkien was racist against real-world people; any more than Tolkien having orcs be evil means that he was racist.

I wasn't trying to imply this. What I meant was is that LRB operates from the conceit that the Red Book is a literally racist tract because it depicted human beings as literal monsters to justify their extermination.

I read it. It's actually a pretty good read -- an alternate retelling of LOTR, in the same way Grendel and Eaters of the Dead retold the Beowulf saga.

I think that LRB goes too far in the other direction by depicting Mordor as a completely blameless utopia and several sequences are outright comical as a result (e.g. the "real" account of King Angmar's death).

[BoxCrayonTales]

Get a load of this guy.  Talk about going to great lengths to make absolutely no sense...


https://hubpages.com/games-hobbies/Why-Do-Orc-Lives-Matter

Okay, to cut through all the chaff...


The way orcs (and other humanoid races) are depicted is identical to rhetoric used throughout history to demonize the "other", thereby justifying killing them and taking their stuff. This may potentially make some players who are members of historically marginalized groups feel uncomfortable because it reminds them of the way their own ancestors were treated, or (in particular unfortunately circumstances) how their ethnic group is treated right now.


This isn't a new front in the culture war. The D&D fandom has been discussing this stuff for decades.


D&D is crime fantasy, pure and simple. I'm sure most people are sane enough to understand that engaging in ethnic cleansing in a game context doesn't equate to promoting ethnic cleansing in real life. It's just that humans are blood-crazed psychopaths by nature and we need an outlet for that.

[Ghostmaker]

I think that LRB goes too far in the other direction by depicting Mordor as a completely blameless utopia and several sequences are outright comical as a result (e.g. the "real" account of King Angmar's death).

Well, dark humor is like food; not everyone gets it


Although rewriting Aragorn into a sociopath whose sole purpose is to claim the Gondorian throne, come hell or high water, was kind of disturbing.

[Ratman_tf]

Get a load of this guy.  Talk about going to great lengths to make absolutely no sense...


https://hubpages.com/games-hobbies/Why-Do-Orc-Lives-Matter

Okay, to cut through all the chaff...


The way orcs (and other humanoid races) are depicted is identical to rhetoric used throughout history to demonize the "other", thereby justifying killing them and taking their stuff. This may potentially make some players who are members of historically marginalized groups feel uncomfortable because it reminds them of the way their own ancestors were treated, or (in particular unfortunately circumstances) how their ethnic group is treated right now.


This isn't a new front in the culture war. The D&D fandom has been discussing this stuff for decades.


D&D is crime fantasy, pure and simple. I'm sure most people are sane enough to understand that engaging in ethnic cleansing in a game context doesn't equate to promoting ethnic cleansing in real life. It's just that humans are blood-crazed psychopaths by nature and we need an outlet for that.

And to cut through that chaff, opponents in D&D are, AFAIK, always guilty of some offense that warrants conflict.
Orcs are raiding human settlements, Giants are attacking towns on the borders of a kingdom, the Drow... yeah. Not nice people.

[BoxCrayonTales]

Get a load of this guy.  Talk about going to great lengths to make absolutely no sense...


https://hubpages.com/games-hobbies/Why-Do-Orc-Lives-Matter

Okay, to cut through all the chaff...


The way orcs (and other humanoid races) are depicted is identical to rhetoric used throughout history to demonize the "other", thereby justifying killing them and taking their stuff. This may potentially make some players who are members of historically marginalized groups feel uncomfortable because it reminds them of the way their own ancestors were treated, or (in particular unfortunately circumstances) how their ethnic group is treated right now.


This isn't a new front in the culture war. The D&D fandom has been discussing this stuff for decades.


D&D is crime fantasy, pure and simple. I'm sure most people are sane enough to understand that engaging in ethnic cleansing in a game context doesn't equate to promoting ethnic cleansing in real life. It's just that humans are blood-crazed psychopaths by nature and we need an outlet for that.

And to cut through that chaff, opponents in D&D are, AFAIK, always guilty of some offense that warrants conflict.
Orcs are raiding human settlements, Giants are attacking towns on the borders of a kingdom, the Drow... yeah. Not nice people.

It's a game about violence. You're making up justifications to kill fictional people and loot their corpses. Justifications that, quite frankly, you don't actually need. You don't need a reason to kill people beyond them being bags of XP and loot.

[Ratman_tf]

Get a load of this guy.  Talk about going to great lengths to make absolutely no sense...


https://hubpages.com/games-hobbies/Why-Do-Orc-Lives-Matter

Okay, to cut through all the chaff...


The way orcs (and other humanoid races) are depicted is identical to rhetoric used throughout history to demonize the "other", thereby justifying killing them and taking their stuff. This may potentially make some players who are members of historically marginalized groups feel uncomfortable because it reminds them of the way their own ancestors were treated, or (in particular unfortunately circumstances) how their ethnic group is treated right now.


This isn't a new front in the culture war. The D&D fandom has been discussing this stuff for decades.


D&D is crime fantasy, pure and simple. I'm sure most people are sane enough to understand that engaging in ethnic cleansing in a game context doesn't equate to promoting ethnic cleansing in real life. It's just that humans are blood-crazed psychopaths by nature and we need an outlet for that.

And to cut through that chaff, opponents in D&D are, AFAIK, always guilty of some offense that warrants conflict.
Orcs are raiding human settlements, Giants are attacking towns on the borders of a kingdom, the Drow... yeah. Not nice people.

It's a game about violence. You're making up justifications to kill fictional people and loot their corpses. Justifications that, quite frankly, you don't actually need. You don't need a reason to kill people beyond them being bags of XP and loot.

Your myopic view of the game is incorrect. There's a lot more to RPGs than violence. Even D&D.

[Shasarak]

D&D is crime fantasy, pure and simple. I'm sure most people are sane enough to understand that engaging in ethnic cleansing in a game context doesn't equate to promoting ethnic cleansing in real life. It's just that humans are blood-crazed psychopaths by nature and we need an outlet for that.

You can lock hundreds of humans that dont know each other in a tightly enclosed metal tube of an airplane for hours at a time and have an almost certain chance that everyone will arrive at their destination alive and intact.
Try that with any other animal and see which one is the "blood-crazed psychopath by nature"

[Ghostmaker]

A campaign setting in which goblinoids are mistreated due to their heritage and not because they have a bad habit of attacking other demihumans might be interesting. For some reason it reminds me of an urban fantasy setting I was tooling with.


Orcs in D&D are not Orks in Shadowrun, though. D&D orcs have a long history of raiding, slaving, and being poor neighbors, much like their goblinoid brethren.

[BoxCrayonTales]

Here's an idea to try on for size:


Orcs are white people. Orcs steal, pillage, enslave, rape, etc just like white people do. At least according to the racist stereotypes circulating among the woke.


That's why For example some modern depictions of orcs feature features like red hair and blue tattoos, just like stereotypes of ancient Celts.


If you're using orcs for target practice, then you're an anti-white racist.

[Ghostmaker]

I can't help it if the woke crowd is made up of paste eating retards. There's only so much I can do.