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Author Topic: Is there any monster the SJWs don't see as Black People?  (Read 5583 times)

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: Is there any monster the SJWs don't see as Black People?
« Reply #225 on: October 03, 2020, 01:41:35 pm »
Are orcs supposed to be sexy?

VisionStorm

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Re: Is there any monster the SJWs don't see as Black People?
« Reply #226 on: October 03, 2020, 02:24:46 pm »
Are orcs supposed to be sexy?

Only if they're PCs, important NPCs, random orc gurls or orcs in promo-art trying to get you to buy products where you can play orcs.

CRKrueger

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Re: Is there any monster the SJWs don't see as Black People?
« Reply #227 on: October 05, 2020, 01:29:31 pm »
So it feels sort of like The Crayonster is arguing against a straw-man version of RPGs that doesn't really represent a majority sampling of the games played.


I always figured that most people think of orcs as basically green-skinned humans and they're used as mooks more often than humans in order to emphasize that this is a fantasy setting. Also, I guess orcs are just cooler than humans or something? According to google, outside of Tolkien movies the fantasy artists generally seem to depict orcs as supermodels.


Whenever people went into detail on orcish culture, it was typically the official books like D&D and Pathfinder that went out of their way to paint orcs as being all evil all the time. All the fan-made cultures I remember reading simply treated them like humans, capable of both good and evil. Probably because writing evil cultures gets boring? IDK.


I see the SJW talking point that depicting orcs (or any fictional race) as inherently evil will somehow promote racist attitudes, but I don't see any evidence for that. In fact, I see far more evidence that as people mature they will reject the standard depiction of evil orcs as shallow and unrealistic.


I never really internalized that orcs were inherently evil. I grew up playing Warcraft 3.


Sure, orcs work fine as evil mooks for a generic evil overlord. But real life is complicated. Killing mooks is cathartic, but it doesn't satisfy the more complex tastes of the human mind.


Whenever I see people writing more morally agent orcs, the justification is always that alignment is unrealistic and not that writing evil cultures promotes racist thinking.


I'm sorry if I come across as an evil SJW who wants to take away your fun. I'm sorry for offending you and I will try to be more conscientious in the future.
Just don’t be a self-righteous prick filled with fake moral superiority and you’ll be fine.

As far as Orcs go, depends on the world.  In Greyhawk, my Orcs wage war for the vengeance of Gruumsh, based on the Roger Moore origin story in Dragon.  Some tribes have come to worship Hextor or Iuz and follow the dictates of those gods.   Orc culture is Lawful/Evil and Orcs have been bred for conflict, violence and physical superiority.  Can a smart Orc learn to behave oneself in human society?  Sure, but that’s not going to change what they are.

40k Orks are a fungoid bio-weapon species created by the Old Ones/Slann a billion years ago in their war against the Necrons.  They have an incredible amount of genetically coded knowledge, but it’s all related to warfare.  Some Orks roam as mercenaries and pirates, so are capable of working with other races, but most follow the biggest warboss in fights against other orks until a warboss collects a large enough army to start invading planets.

Warcraft Orcs are...Warcraft Orcs, basically just another race like humans, dwarves and elves, unless they have been corrupted and serve the demons.

Shadowrun Orcs are different still, as are Middle-Earth orcs, etc.

None of them are racist stand-in bullshit. 
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery's thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

CRKrueger

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Re: Is there any monster the SJWs don't see as Black People?
« Reply #228 on: October 05, 2020, 01:57:23 pm »
And you lost me again.


Have you ever played "cowboys and indians"? Do you recognize that the history the game is based on is very fucked up? Can you still stomach the game while knowing its horrific roots?


We can apply similar logic to D&D. It's an American game whose world building took cues from the colonization of the American West. There were tons of racist tracts saying that indigenous peoples were inferior and should be exterminated. Saying that the way humanoids are depicted resembles racist tracts should be a value-neutral statement, if it is indeed accurate and that will vary by setting, not an indictment of players and designers.


Yeah, in Setting A, the player race B view the monster race C using the type of language that Earth Culture D used to genocide Earth Culture E.

So what?

You’re missing one very important point...

The terms used by Earth Culture D to justify attacking Earth Culture E were lies and propaganda.

The terms used by Player Race B to justify attacking Monster Race C are the truth.

See the difference and why making a connection to real world relations is asinine and pointless?

If in Star Frontiers, the Vrusk were the enemies instead of the Sathar, since the Vrusk are insectoid, soldiers very may well refer to them as cockroaches.  That has nothing to do with the insult white have for blacks in South Africa or that blacks have for each other in other parts of Africa.

It has no connection and no relevance at all.
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery's thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

David Johansen

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Re: Is there any monster the SJWs don't see as Black People?
« Reply #229 on: October 05, 2020, 02:13:51 pm »
I recall there was some outrage at 2300AD's use of "Kafer" for the bug race that gets smarter when they are fighting.  Kafer being a South African racial slur.  I expect it was news to the designers.
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Brad

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Re: Is there any monster the SJWs don't see as Black People?
« Reply #230 on: October 09, 2020, 05:01:18 pm »
Thought this was appropriate to the thread: https://youtu.be/K23Ok9btcF8

Trond

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Re: Is there any monster the SJWs don't see as Black People?
« Reply #231 on: October 11, 2020, 09:47:54 pm »
....and speaking of SJWs. The do really resemble religious fanatics, almost to the level of caricature:


Ghostmaker

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Re: Is there any monster the SJWs don't see as Black People?
« Reply #232 on: October 12, 2020, 08:15:04 am »
....and speaking of SJWs. The do really resemble religious fanatics, almost to the level of caricature:

(Image snipped)
And because I am a twisted bastard, my mind jumps to THIS.