Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!

[Mistwell]

FDA grants full (non-experimental) approval to Pfizer Covid-19 Vaccine.

So, about that "experimental non-approved" excuse...?

Yes, I'm sure a rushed and politically-driven approval will allay everyone's concerns.

I am sure you can point to FDA approval of a vaccine which had no political drive behind it? The Polio vaccine surely did.

The Salk polio vaccine? Just weeks after it was distributed, inoculated children started coming down the very disease the jab was supposed to prevent. Public health completely fucked up the response, including denying it was happening, before pulling first some of the doses, then shutting down the program entirely, less than a month after they started. Turns out, one of the labs had failed to deactivate some of the live viruses used in the vaccine. They were infecting the very kids they were supposed to protect.

This completely destroyed public trust in Salk's vaccine, and it wasn't until Sabin's vaccine came out 5 years later, that the public was wiling to try another jab. Even for a disease as terrifying as polio.

This is why we take our time when it comes to vaccines. Rushing them is dangerous. Vaccines are probably the greatest medical breakthrough in the last 200 years, but their history is littered with dark episodes like the rollout of the Salk vaccine.

I'll ask again. The Polio vaccine had political pressure behind it, right?
We established procedures for FDA approval after the Polio vaccine, right?
There is no allegation this new approval of the Covid-19 vaccine bypassed those procedures, right? The emergency validation did, but not this newest non-emergency one, right?

[Pat]

I'll ask again. The Polio vaccine had political pressure behind it, right?
We established procedures for FDA approval after the Polio vaccine, right?
There is no allegation this new approval of the Covid-19 vaccine bypassed those procedures, right? The emergency validation did, but not this newest non-emergency one, right?

I just pointed out that the pressure wasn't equivalent.

And there are plenty of allegations that the covid-19 vaccine bypassed those procedures. Just look at the compressed time frame.

[Eirikrautha]

FDA grants full (non-experimental) approval to Pfizer Covid-19 Vaccine.

So, about that "experimental non-approved" excuse...?

Yes, I'm sure a rushed and politically-driven approval will allay everyone's concerns.

I am sure you can point to FDA approval of a vaccine which had no political drive behind it? The Polio vaccine surely did.

Google "Cutter Vaccine."  120,000 administered, 40,000 sick, 51 paralyzed, 5 dead.  All in the rush to get the polio vaccine out.  Even your own examples defeat you.  You really are a buffoon.

(Brace for the 10 paragraph response that nitpicks minute details to prove that his flippant generalized response didn't actually refer to polio vaccine mistakes, and oh, yeah, in another thread last week you didn't say exactly what he thought you should say, so that means you're a totalitarian, too!)

No moronboy that's WHY I cited that. The polio vaccine had terrible issues, and yet WERE ALL COOL WITH IT. It had political pressure, and yet WERE ALL COOL WITH IT. Relative to this vaccine, I think you could say the Polio vaccine had more issues and political pressure behind it than this one, right? Is your tiny brain getting my point yet?

"WERE [I can't tell if you meant "We're", as "were" makes no sense without a subject] ALL COOL WITH IT."  No, the people at that time were not "cool" with it.  They were horrified, and that led to many of the protocols that the FDA is accelerating/bypassing here (see: Phase 3 trials of the Pfizer vaccine are NOT RCTs).  And "we're" not "cool" with it, either, as none of us were adults when this happened (in 1955).  So no, no one was cool with the polio vaccine giving kids polio. 

Honestly, I expected word-parsing and dodging, and not that you'd go full retard supporting faulty vaccines because they were politically expedient.  Because your "we" doesn't include me, but it definitely includes you...

[Mistwell]

I'll ask again. The Polio vaccine had political pressure behind it, right?
We established procedures for FDA approval after the Polio vaccine, right?
There is no allegation this new approval of the Covid-19 vaccine bypassed those procedures, right? The emergency validation did, but not this newest non-emergency one, right?

I just pointed out that the pressure wasn't equivalent.

And there are plenty of allegations that the covid-19 vaccine bypassed those procedures. Just look at the compressed time frame.

Time frame is not one of the criteria for the standards for FDA approval. What standard for FDA approval was bypassed? It's the same approval procedure used for all vaccines. It passed, legitimately, using established procedure. So what's the breach in protocol?

[Mistwell]

FDA grants full (non-experimental) approval to Pfizer Covid-19 Vaccine.

So, about that "experimental non-approved" excuse...?

Yes, I'm sure a rushed and politically-driven approval will allay everyone's concerns.

I am sure you can point to FDA approval of a vaccine which had no political drive behind it? The Polio vaccine surely did.

Google "Cutter Vaccine."  120,000 administered, 40,000 sick, 51 paralyzed, 5 dead.  All in the rush to get the polio vaccine out.  Even your own examples defeat you.  You really are a buffoon.

(Brace for the 10 paragraph response that nitpicks minute details to prove that his flippant generalized response didn't actually refer to polio vaccine mistakes, and oh, yeah, in another thread last week you didn't say exactly what he thought you should say, so that means you're a totalitarian, too!)

No moronboy that's WHY I cited that. The polio vaccine had terrible issues, and yet WERE ALL COOL WITH IT. It had political pressure, and yet WERE ALL COOL WITH IT. Relative to this vaccine, I think you could say the Polio vaccine had more issues and political pressure behind it than this one, right? Is your tiny brain getting my point yet?

"WERE [I can't tell if you meant "We're", as "were" makes no sense without a subject] ALL COOL WITH IT."  No, the people at that time were not "cool" with it.  They were horrified, and that led to many of the protocols that the FDA is accelerating/bypassing here (see: Phase 3 trials of the Pfizer vaccine are NOT RCTs).  And "we're" not "cool" with it, either, as none of us were adults when this happened (in 1955).  So no, no one was cool with the polio vaccine giving kids polio. 

Honestly, I expected word-parsing and dodging, and not that you'd go full retard supporting faulty vaccines because they were politically expedient.  Because your "we" doesn't include me, but it definitely includes you...

The FDA didn't bypass any procedures in approving the vaccine. They bypassed some in the emergency approval but not this one. "Time frame" isn't a standard - there are all these hoops you have to go through to clear a vaccine and this one cleared them all. If you disagree, show me a procedure they bypassed and don't fucking guess or speculate actually show me a procedure they actually bypassed as opposed to one you think they might have based on your extensive education in FDA vaccine approval procedures.

I know my asking you to support your allegations is something you're uncomfortable with. After all, it's why you asked that I be banned, right?

[DocJones]

Is it true that more people are being beaten by police in Australia for not wearing face burkas than Taliban beating women in Afghanistan for not wear full burkas?
  :-P

[Mistwell]

"And you know what? I believe totally in your freedoms. I do. You've got to do what you have to do," Trump said. "But, I recommend: take the vaccines. I did it. It's good. Take the vaccines." - Trump. Yesterday.

[Pat]

I'll ask again. The Polio vaccine had political pressure behind it, right?
We established procedures for FDA approval after the Polio vaccine, right?
There is no allegation this new approval of the Covid-19 vaccine bypassed those procedures, right? The emergency validation did, but not this newest non-emergency one, right?

I just pointed out that the pressure wasn't equivalent.

And there are plenty of allegations that the covid-19 vaccine bypassed those procedures. Just look at the compressed time frame.

Time frame is not one of the criteria for the standards for FDA approval. What standard for FDA approval was bypassed? It's the same approval procedure used for all vaccines. It passed, legitimately, using established procedure. So what's the breach in protocol?

The time frame is absolutely essential to the process. Waiting to see what happens is the primary reason why phase I through III testing normally takes a half a dozen years or more, and why phase IV testing is normally continued long after formal approval. And it's not something that can be expedited, because you can't accelerate the appearance of unknown side effects.

[Eirikrautha]

FDA grants full (non-experimental) approval to Pfizer Covid-19 Vaccine.

So, about that "experimental non-approved" excuse...?

Yes, I'm sure a rushed and politically-driven approval will allay everyone's concerns.

I am sure you can point to FDA approval of a vaccine which had no political drive behind it? The Polio vaccine surely did.

Google "Cutter Vaccine."  120,000 administered, 40,000 sick, 51 paralyzed, 5 dead.  All in the rush to get the polio vaccine out.  Even your own examples defeat you.  You really are a buffoon.

(Brace for the 10 paragraph response that nitpicks minute details to prove that his flippant generalized response didn't actually refer to polio vaccine mistakes, and oh, yeah, in another thread last week you didn't say exactly what he thought you should say, so that means you're a totalitarian, too!)

No moronboy that's WHY I cited that. The polio vaccine had terrible issues, and yet WERE ALL COOL WITH IT. It had political pressure, and yet WERE ALL COOL WITH IT. Relative to this vaccine, I think you could say the Polio vaccine had more issues and political pressure behind it than this one, right? Is your tiny brain getting my point yet?

"WERE [I can't tell if you meant "We're", as "were" makes no sense without a subject] ALL COOL WITH IT."  No, the people at that time were not "cool" with it.  They were horrified, and that led to many of the protocols that the FDA is accelerating/bypassing here (see: Phase 3 trials of the Pfizer vaccine are NOT RCTs).  And "we're" not "cool" with it, either, as none of us were adults when this happened (in 1955).  So no, no one was cool with the polio vaccine giving kids polio. 

Honestly, I expected word-parsing and dodging, and not that you'd go full retard supporting faulty vaccines because they were politically expedient.  Because your "we" doesn't include me, but it definitely includes you...

The FDA didn't bypass any procedures in approving the vaccine. They bypassed some in the emergency approval but not this one. "Time frame" isn't a standard - there are all these hoops you have to go through to clear a vaccine and this one cleared them all. If you disagree, show me a procedure they bypassed and don't fucking guess or speculate actually show me a procedure they actually bypassed as opposed to one you think they might have based on your extensive education in FDA vaccine approval procedures.

I know my asking you to support your allegations is something you're uncomfortable with. After all, it's why you asked that I be banned, right?

No one wants you banned (And I defy your lying ass to quote where I've requested you be banned).  You're so much of a joke that you are a better argument against your own points than your opponents.

[Mistwell]

I'll ask again. The Polio vaccine had political pressure behind it, right?
We established procedures for FDA approval after the Polio vaccine, right?
There is no allegation this new approval of the Covid-19 vaccine bypassed those procedures, right? The emergency validation did, but not this newest non-emergency one, right?

I just pointed out that the pressure wasn't equivalent.

And there are plenty of allegations that the covid-19 vaccine bypassed those procedures. Just look at the compressed time frame.

Time frame is not one of the criteria for the standards for FDA approval. What standard for FDA approval was bypassed? It's the same approval procedure used for all vaccines. It passed, legitimately, using established procedure. So what's the breach in protocol?

The time frame is absolutely essential to the process. Waiting to see what happens is the primary reason why phase I through III testing normally takes a half a dozen years or more, and why phase IV testing is normally continued long after formal approval. And it's not something that can be expedited, because you can't accelerate the appearance of unknown side effects.

Hey doctor, please link to that. Stop with the bullshit "this is how I think it works so I am going to declare it fact" and if you have EVIDENCE this newest approval violated some protocol for time frame, link to it. Otherwise it's just Pat's Hot Take.

[Mistwell]

[Mistwell]

FDA grants full (non-experimental) approval to Pfizer Covid-19 Vaccine.

So, about that "experimental non-approved" excuse...?

Yes, I'm sure a rushed and politically-driven approval will allay everyone's concerns.

I am sure you can point to FDA approval of a vaccine which had no political drive behind it? The Polio vaccine surely did.

Google "Cutter Vaccine."  120,000 administered, 40,000 sick, 51 paralyzed, 5 dead.  All in the rush to get the polio vaccine out.  Even your own examples defeat you.  You really are a buffoon.

(Brace for the 10 paragraph response that nitpicks minute details to prove that his flippant generalized response didn't actually refer to polio vaccine mistakes, and oh, yeah, in another thread last week you didn't say exactly what he thought you should say, so that means you're a totalitarian, too!)

No moronboy that's WHY I cited that. The polio vaccine had terrible issues, and yet WERE ALL COOL WITH IT. It had political pressure, and yet WERE ALL COOL WITH IT. Relative to this vaccine, I think you could say the Polio vaccine had more issues and political pressure behind it than this one, right? Is your tiny brain getting my point yet?

"WERE [I can't tell if you meant "We're", as "were" makes no sense without a subject] ALL COOL WITH IT."  No, the people at that time were not "cool" with it.  They were horrified, and that led to many of the protocols that the FDA is accelerating/bypassing here (see: Phase 3 trials of the Pfizer vaccine are NOT RCTs).  And "we're" not "cool" with it, either, as none of us were adults when this happened (in 1955).  So no, no one was cool with the polio vaccine giving kids polio. 

Honestly, I expected word-parsing and dodging, and not that you'd go full retard supporting faulty vaccines because they were politically expedient.  Because your "we" doesn't include me, but it definitely includes you...

The FDA didn't bypass any procedures in approving the vaccine. They bypassed some in the emergency approval but not this one. "Time frame" isn't a standard - there are all these hoops you have to go through to clear a vaccine and this one cleared them all. If you disagree, show me a procedure they bypassed and don't fucking guess or speculate actually show me a procedure they actually bypassed as opposed to one you think they might have based on your extensive education in FDA vaccine approval procedures.

I know my asking you to support your allegations is something you're uncomfortable with. After all, it's why you asked that I be banned, right?

No one wants you banned

In response to what you had said about me:

Yes you do need to get ban.  Your not here for a conversation your here to shut us up and piss on our actual concerns.  Not only that, but your a fucking traitor to your country, to everything that is good, and sold yourself off like a whore like the rest of your neo con kin.

Which met with silence of course from you, though he was saying that from your quote.

[Pat]

Hey doctor, please link to that. Stop with the bullshit "this is how I think it works so I am going to declare it fact" and if you have EVIDENCE this newest approval violated some protocol for time frame, link to it. Otherwise it's just Pat's Hot Take.

Link what? Are you seriously arguing that waiting to see if side effect shows up over the course of 9 months[1] is exactly the same as waiting to see if any side effects show up over 6 years[2]? That's like demanding someone prove that water is wet. I chose that specific example because it's the one thing requires no further knowledge of the procedures or medical processes, and can't be reasonable debated. No checklist will dilate time.

[1] The period of Phase I-III testing for the Pfizer vaccine
[2] A reasonable average for a traditional vaccine

[Mistwell]

Hey doctor, please link to that. Stop with the bullshit "this is how I think it works so I am going to declare it fact" and if you have EVIDENCE this newest approval violated some protocol for time frame, link to it. Otherwise it's just Pat's Hot Take.

Link what? Are you seriously arguing that waiting to see if side effect shows up over the course of 9 months[1] is exactly the same as waiting to see if any side effects show up over 6 years[2]? That's like demanding someone prove that water is wet. I chose that specific example because it's the one thing requires no further knowledge of the procedures or medical processes, and can't be reasonable debated. No checklist will dilate time.

[1] The period of Phase I-III testing for the Pfizer vaccine
[2] A reasonable average for a traditional vaccine

So no link, doctor?

[Mistwell]

More on the "Only the elderly or people with comorbidities die from Covid" category. Yet another young, healthy, active, not obese guy dies from Covid.

From the article:

"Josh was completely healthy, active, not a smoker," she said. He would have turned 37 on Saturday.

Doctors say they are seeing a spike in cases among young adults and children as the highly contagious delta variant sweeps through unvaccinated populations. Medical officials say there is conflicting information on whether it makes people more severely ill or whether young people are more vulnerable to it, but it's clear the contagiousness means more young people and children are getting sick.

"There is no question that the average age of people who are being hospitalized is going down," State Health Officer Scott Harris said Friday.

"I don't know if it's clear that delta is worse in that age group or worse than any of the strains we've seen before. ... But what you have though is one that is just much, much more transmissible. Because seniors are the ones that are predominately the vaccinated population in our state, the most vulnerable are these younger people. So you see them getting infected at much higher rates than we had before."

In the past four weeks, people ages 25 to 49 years, made up 14% of all COVID deaths in the state. And people 50 to 64 years made up about 29%.