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Author Topic: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!  (Read 199127 times)

Shasarak

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #360 on: August 11, 2021, 05:29:57 PM »
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/global-covid-19/shielding-approach-humanitarian.html

What the FUCK.

"What is the Shielding Approach?
The shielding approach aims to reduce the number of severe COVID-19 cases by limiting contact between individuals at higher risk of developing severe disease (“high-risk”) and the general population (“low-risk”). High-risk individuals would be temporarily relocated to safe or “green zones” established at the household, neighborhood, camp/sector or community level depending on the context and setting. They would have minimal contact with family members and other low-risk residents.

Current evidence indicates that older adults and people of any age who have serious underlying medical conditions are at higher risk for severe illness from COVID-19. In most humanitarian settings, older population groups make up a small percentage of the total population. For this reason, the shielding approach suggests physically separating high-risk individuals from the general population to prioritize the use of the limited available resources and avoid implementing long-term containment measures among the general population.

In theory, shielding may serve its objective to protect high-risk populations from disease and death. However, implementation of the approach necessitates strict adherence to protocol. Inadvertent introduction of the virus into a green zone may result in rapid transmission among the most vulnerable populations the approach is trying to protect.

A summary of the shielding approach described by Favas is shown in Table 1. See Guidance for the prevention of COVID-19 infections among high-risk individuals in low-resource, displaced and camp and camp-like settings, for full details."

What the fuck is this? Are we going to relitigate Korematsu and the Japanese internment all over again, except with 'vulnerable persons'?

Keeping high risk individuals safe seems like a much smarter idea then say locking down everyone.

For example Viva Frei has an interesting video about how the elderly in Canada were essentially abandoned and died not from the Wuhan China virus but from neglect.
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Pat
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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #361 on: August 11, 2021, 06:57:20 PM »
Keeping high risk individuals safe seems like a much smarter idea then say locking down everyone.

For example Viva Frei has an interesting video about how the elderly in Canada were essentially abandoned and died not from the Wuhan China virus but from neglect.
Ireland did something similar. It's been months, but NPR ran a bit where they talked about how elderly were supposed to stay home ("cocoon"), and how the communities got together to bring them meals and stuff. All very Pollyanna Kumbaya and focused on heart-warming individual stories.

https://brill.com/view/journals/ejhl/28/1/article-p81_6.xml
Doesn't sound like it worked. More than half of all Irish covid-19 deaths were in nursing homes. And relying on community support for things like food raises the question of whether all communities provided similar support, especially in areas with a higher elderly population and thus a greater burden; whether the support was evenly sustained for months on end; and whether it truly met all their all needs, like special dietary requirements, drugs, or simple things like cleaning that might be beyond the capabilities of some elderly. Though apparently it wasn't a mandate, so the elderly didn't have to obey, but the wording and messaging was unclear so apparently a lot of people weren't certain whether it was being enforced with the full threat of the law. And they changed the rules a lot, leading to further confusion. The article also notes the rise in loneliness and depression, and concludes that cocooning won't protect the elderly in the long term.

Shasarak

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #362 on: August 11, 2021, 07:13:19 PM »
Keeping high risk individuals safe seems like a much smarter idea then say locking down everyone.

For example Viva Frei has an interesting video about how the elderly in Canada were essentially abandoned and died not from the Wuhan China virus but from neglect.
Ireland did something similar. It's been months, but NPR ran a bit where they talked about how elderly were supposed to stay home ("cocoon"), and how the communities got together to bring them meals and stuff. All very Pollyanna Kumbaya and focused on heart-warming individual stories.

https://brill.com/view/journals/ejhl/28/1/article-p81_6.xml
Doesn't sound like it worked. More than half of all Irish covid-19 deaths were in nursing homes. And relying on community support for things like food raises the question of whether all communities provided similar support, especially in areas with a higher elderly population and thus a greater burden; whether the support was evenly sustained for months on end; and whether it truly met all their all needs, like special dietary requirements, drugs, or simple things like cleaning that might be beyond the capabilities of some elderly. Though apparently it wasn't a mandate, so the elderly didn't have to obey, but the wording and messaging was unclear so apparently a lot of people weren't certain whether it was being enforced with the full threat of the law. And they changed the rules a lot, leading to further confusion. The article also notes the rise in loneliness and depression, and concludes that cocooning won't protect the elderly in the long term.

What are you using as your comparison to determine if it worked or not?

The figures of 50% of deaths in nursing homes is not a lot of information to base your decision considering that the main demographic likely to die from Wuhan China virus is those people found in nursing homes.
Who da Drow?  U da drow! - hedgehobbit

There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

Ratman_tf

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #363 on: August 11, 2021, 07:16:13 PM »
Keeping high risk individuals safe seems like a much smarter idea then say locking down everyone.

For example Viva Frei has an interesting video about how the elderly in Canada were essentially abandoned and died not from the Wuhan China virus but from neglect.
Ireland did something similar. It's been months, but NPR ran a bit where they talked about how elderly were supposed to stay home ("cocoon"), and how the communities got together to bring them meals and stuff. All very Pollyanna Kumbaya and focused on heart-warming individual stories.

https://brill.com/view/journals/ejhl/28/1/article-p81_6.xml
Doesn't sound like it worked. More than half of all Irish covid-19 deaths were in nursing homes. And relying on community support for things like food raises the question of whether all communities provided similar support, especially in areas with a higher elderly population and thus a greater burden; whether the support was evenly sustained for months on end; and whether it truly met all their all needs, like special dietary requirements, drugs, or simple things like cleaning that might be beyond the capabilities of some elderly. Though apparently it wasn't a mandate, so the elderly didn't have to obey, but the wording and messaging was unclear so apparently a lot of people weren't certain whether it was being enforced with the full threat of the law. And they changed the rules a lot, leading to further confusion. The article also notes the rise in loneliness and depression, and concludes that cocooning won't protect the elderly in the long term.

I was never put to the test, but my parents are in their 70's and there's no way any lockdown rules would have kept me from helping them out.* I don't give two shits about the fed and state governments tripping over their own feet to look like they knew what they were doing.

*Bar some fascistic garbage like locking me up.
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Pat
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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #364 on: August 11, 2021, 07:21:00 PM »
Keeping high risk individuals safe seems like a much smarter idea then say locking down everyone.

For example Viva Frei has an interesting video about how the elderly in Canada were essentially abandoned and died not from the Wuhan China virus but from neglect.
Ireland did something similar. It's been months, but NPR ran a bit where they talked about how elderly were supposed to stay home ("cocoon"), and how the communities got together to bring them meals and stuff. All very Pollyanna Kumbaya and focused on heart-warming individual stories.

https://brill.com/view/journals/ejhl/28/1/article-p81_6.xml
Doesn't sound like it worked. More than half of all Irish covid-19 deaths were in nursing homes. And relying on community support for things like food raises the question of whether all communities provided similar support, especially in areas with a higher elderly population and thus a greater burden; whether the support was evenly sustained for months on end; and whether it truly met all their all needs, like special dietary requirements, drugs, or simple things like cleaning that might be beyond the capabilities of some elderly. Though apparently it wasn't a mandate, so the elderly didn't have to obey, but the wording and messaging was unclear so apparently a lot of people weren't certain whether it was being enforced with the full threat of the law. And they changed the rules a lot, leading to further confusion. The article also notes the rise in loneliness and depression, and concludes that cocooning won't protect the elderly in the long term.

What are you using as your comparison to determine if it worked or not?

The figures of 50% of deaths in nursing homes is not a lot of information to base your decision considering that the main demographic likely to die from Wuhan China virus is those people found in nursing homes.
I'm going by the standard that more than 40% of all covid-related deaths taking place in nursing homes has been considered bad in the US. Which may not be the best metric, because it doesn't take into account differences in demographics. But the main support for my conclusion is the article I linked, which is pretty critical of the Irish response, including cocooning.

Pat
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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #365 on: August 11, 2021, 07:33:40 PM »
I was never put to the test, but my parents are in their 70's and there's no way any lockdown rules would have kept me from helping them out.* I don't give two shits about the fed and state governments tripping over their own feet to look like they knew what they were doing.

*Bar some fascistic garbage like locking me up.
It was put to the test for me, several times. This was literally the weekend when the states involved were imposing new travel restrictions, and we weren't sure if they were going to pull some fascistic garbage like locking us up. Didn't stop us. Turned out the dire warnings was just a paper tiger, but we didn't know that.

Shasarak

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #366 on: August 11, 2021, 08:18:58 PM »
I'm going by the standard that more than 40% of all covid-related deaths taking place in nursing homes has been considered bad in the US. Which may not be the best metric, because it doesn't take into account differences in demographics. But the main support for my conclusion is the article I linked, which is pretty critical of the Irish response, including cocooning.

I had a quick look through.  My main take away was that it was a half arsed effort of everyone doing their own thing with no systemic support from the government.

So not so much a reflection that isolating vulnerable people does not work; more that doing things badly gives bad results.
Who da Drow?  U da drow! - hedgehobbit

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look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

SHARK

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #367 on: August 11, 2021, 09:18:23 PM »
Greetings!

More Pro-masking, pro-vaccine cucketry and shrill condescending and smug lecturing.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

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Pat
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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #368 on: August 11, 2021, 09:21:41 PM »
I'm going by the standard that more than 40% of all covid-related deaths taking place in nursing homes has been considered bad in the US. Which may not be the best metric, because it doesn't take into account differences in demographics. But the main support for my conclusion is the article I linked, which is pretty critical of the Irish response, including cocooning.

I had a quick look through.  My main take away was that it was a half arsed effort of everyone doing their own thing with no systemic support from the government.

So not so much a reflection that isolating vulnerable people does not work; more that doing things badly gives bad results.
Did you read my post in response to Ghostmaker's link to the CDC's shielding guidelines? I said the theory is sound, it's just the paper is an incoherent mess. Same with Ireland's response.

The basic problem is the government response tends to become terrible when politics is involved. There's too much accommodating special interests, especially when established plans and procedures are thrown out the window, which we saw multiple times during the pandemic. The WHO was very clear in 2019, for instance, that masks and contact tracing didn't work for respiratory diseases, but then the politics of "we have to look like we're doing something" intervened. And governments tend to be terrible at improvising, because the political incentive system is based more on the appearance of doing something now than on whether it really works.

Shasarak

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #369 on: August 11, 2021, 09:54:36 PM »
I'm going by the standard that more than 40% of all covid-related deaths taking place in nursing homes has been considered bad in the US. Which may not be the best metric, because it doesn't take into account differences in demographics. But the main support for my conclusion is the article I linked, which is pretty critical of the Irish response, including cocooning.

I had a quick look through.  My main take away was that it was a half arsed effort of everyone doing their own thing with no systemic support from the government.

So not so much a reflection that isolating vulnerable people does not work; more that doing things badly gives bad results.
Did you read my post in response to Ghostmaker's link to the CDC's shielding guidelines? I said the theory is sound, it's just the paper is an incoherent mess. Same with Ireland's response.

The basic problem is the government response tends to become terrible when politics is involved. There's too much accommodating special interests, especially when established plans and procedures are thrown out the window, which we saw multiple times during the pandemic. The WHO was very clear in 2019, for instance, that masks and contact tracing didn't work for respiratory diseases, but then the politics of "we have to look like we're doing something" intervened. And governments tend to be terrible at improvising, because the political incentive system is based more on the appearance of doing something now than on whether it really works.

Are we disagreeing?  Maybe there was something in regard to Ghostmaker.
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Pat
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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #370 on: August 11, 2021, 10:08:24 PM »
Are we disagreeing? 
Don't seem to be.

FelixGamingX1

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #371 on: August 11, 2021, 11:04:55 PM »
So the freebies weren’t enough!? You could’ve gotten a free beer or cheeseburger. What else yous want?
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Pat
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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #372 on: August 12, 2021, 12:10:05 AM »
So the freebies weren’t enough!? You could’ve gotten a free beer or cheeseburger. What else yous want?
Bodily autonomy, the most basic of all human rights.

consolcwby

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #373 on: August 12, 2021, 12:30:44 AM »
So the freebies weren’t enough!? You could’ve gotten a free beer or cheeseburger. What else yous want?
Bodily autonomy, the most basic of all human rights.
But they don't consider you human. Just a pest to be exterminated...
(I don't mean you as in you specifically, I mean the masses obviously!)
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                                                                                  https://youtu.be/ShaxpuohBWs?si

Ghostmaker

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #374 on: August 12, 2021, 08:45:20 AM »
So the freebies weren’t enough!? You could’ve gotten a free beer or cheeseburger. What else yous want?
Bodily autonomy, the most basic of all human rights.
Like I commented before: 'my body, my choice' is deader than dogshit now. Nice work.