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Author Topic: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!  (Read 199148 times)

Reckall

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #255 on: August 08, 2021, 01:19:17 PM »
Moving the goalposts, I see.
That's a mild case. Usually, Reckall just ignores the goalposts, runs to a completely different field, makes sure nobody's around, closes to within 2 feet of the goal, kicks the ball thru, and then tries to claim victory.

I admit that doing this, vs. simply claiming victory "because", is unpractical :D
It's good you admit you're behaving in such a shitty fashion.

It would be better if you just stopped acting like that.

It would be even better to see a real discussion going on. ::)
Yeah, that's the point. There's no way to have a real discussion when you keep ignoring what people say
Nope. Disagreeing with what people say =/= ignoring what people say.
Quote
Posting lots of links without making a coherent argument

I try to post link pertinent to the specific topic that post refers to. There are many subtopics in this thread. This may give the idea of confusion, but a bit of patience is needed to follow the various subthreads.

Quote
and telling people it's already been covered and they need to read the whole thread again to guess what you're not saying.

I gave my opinion pro or against something - usually with links and even abstracts (*). When someone comes down screaming that I never tackled a certain topic I simply point out that I actually did. What should I do? Copy & Paste 20 times something because 20 people are too lazy to, you know, read the thread they are posting in?

Quote
You're the one shutting down any hope of a real conversation. You.

If with this you mean that my posts get reactions like "How do you dare to point out that what I'm saying has been thoroughly debunked everywhere??? It is true because I say it!!" then, yes, I'm shutting down "conversations".
For every idiot who denounces Ayn Rand as "intellectualism" there is an excellent DM who creates a "Bioshock" adventure.

Pat
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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #256 on: August 08, 2021, 01:25:39 PM »
Moving the goalposts, I see.
That's a mild case. Usually, Reckall just ignores the goalposts, runs to a completely different field, makes sure nobody's around, closes to within 2 feet of the goal, kicks the ball thru, and then tries to claim victory.

I admit that doing this, vs. simply claiming victory "because", is unpractical :D
It's good you admit you're behaving in such a shitty fashion.

It would be better if you just stopped acting like that.

It would be even better to see a real discussion going on. ::)
Yeah, that's the point. There's no way to have a real discussion when you keep ignoring what people say
Nope. Disagreeing with what people say =/= ignoring what people say.
That's a good example of ignoring what I said, because this particular discussion started because I pointed out that you replied to Kiero and claimed victory, but didn't address a single thing Kiero said.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2021, 01:27:17 PM by Pat »

HappyDaze

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #257 on: August 08, 2021, 01:29:27 PM »
Moving the goalposts, I see.
That's a mild case. Usually, Reckall just ignores the goalposts, runs to a completely different field, makes sure nobody's around, closes to within 2 feet of the goal, kicks the ball thru, and then tries to claim victory.

I admit that doing this, vs. simply claiming victory "because", is unpractical :D
It's good you admit you're behaving in such a shitty fashion.

It would be better if you just stopped acting like that.

It would be even better to see a real discussion going on. ::)
Yeah, that's the point. There's no way to have a real discussion when you keep ignoring what people say, posting lots of links without making a coherent argument, and telling people it's already been covered and they need to read the whole thread again to guess what you're not saying.

You're the one shutting down any hope of a real conversation. You.
No...

There is another.

Actually,  just about everyone here only wants a "conversation" so long as it follows their narrative.

HappyDaze

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #258 on: August 08, 2021, 01:32:40 PM »


He deleted his account, of course, but the Wayback Machine saved a copy. http://web.archive.org/web/20210804173841/https://twitter.com/larsmcmurtry

But by all means, 'it's just conspiracy talk that we want people to be forced to take the vax!'.

After the first felony, the rest are free, you know.
So the guy has a posting style that's much like that of SHARK. Both make outlandish claims and encourage violence towards those that disagree with them. Both are repugnant, but that hardly creates a crisis in reality.

HappyDaze

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #259 on: August 08, 2021, 01:35:56 PM »
Moving the goalposts, I see.
That's a mild case. Usually, Reckall just ignores the goalposts, runs to a completely different field, makes sure nobody's around, closes to within 2 feet of the goal, kicks the ball thru, and then tries to claim victory.

I admit that doing this, vs. simply claiming victory "because", is unpractical :D
It's good you admit you're behaving in such a shitty fashion.

It would be better if you just stopped acting like that.

It would be even better to see a real discussion going on. ::)
Yeah, that's the point. There's no way to have a real discussion when you keep ignoring what people say
Nope. Disagreeing with what people say =/= ignoring what people say.
That's a good example of ignoring what I said, because this particular discussion started because I pointed out that you replied to Kiero and claimed victory, but didn't address a single thing Kiero said.
Well, then, he covered everything important that Kiero said... Which was nothing.

Reckall

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #260 on: August 08, 2021, 01:40:15 PM »
Moving the goalposts, I see.
That's a mild case. Usually, Reckall just ignores the goalposts, runs to a completely different field, makes sure nobody's around, closes to within 2 feet of the goal, kicks the ball thru, and then tries to claim victory.

I admit that doing this, vs. simply claiming victory "because", is unpractical :D
It's good you admit you're behaving in such a shitty fashion.

It would be better if you just stopped acting like that.

It would be even better to see a real discussion going on. ::)
Yeah, that's the point. There's no way to have a real discussion when you keep ignoring what people say
Nope. Disagreeing with what people say =/= ignoring what people say.
That's a good example of ignoring what I said, because this particular discussion started because I pointed out that you replied to Kiero and claimed victory, but didn't address a single thing Kiero said.

Because. I. Already. Did.

And you were so absorbed with the absolutely certainty of your narrative that you weren't even able to really challenge me via the most basic question: "Where?"

Then people wonder why they end up "shut down" in their attempts to "discuss"  ::)
For every idiot who denounces Ayn Rand as "intellectualism" there is an excellent DM who creates a "Bioshock" adventure.

Pat
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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #261 on: August 08, 2021, 01:45:54 PM »
I gave my opinion pro or against something - usually with links and even abstracts (*). When someone comes down screaming that I never tackled a certain topic I simply point out that I actually did. What should I do? Copy & Paste 20 times something because 20 people are too lazy to, you know, read the thread they are posting in?
I'll call this out as well, because it's an important concept.

The answer to your question?

Yes.

Yes, that's how we have discussions. Look at the main covid thread, I've repeated some of the same arguments many times. That's because it's unrealistic to expect new readers to be familiar with every last post, to know who posted what, or to follow every last volley of insults in case there was a relevant nugget of content, and then to synthesize all that in a reply to a throwaway assertion. Discussions are cumulative, but we also have to recognize the limitations of the medium, and discussion boards are more conversational than scholarly. We need to periodically summarize and restate.

But that isn't the real issue. The real issue is that most of the time, you don't even make your central thesis, and when people reply, you ignore their replies and post something else unrelated. Remember the time you posted something, and I had to infer that you were asking for an explanation for why the death rate in the US was higher than in many other countries? You never actually stated that. I had to guess what point you were trying to make based on a few statistical references. Many of your posts are like that. You don't make a point, you just post a bunch of links, or claim that people haven't refuted your claims, or simply claim victory, without making a clear argument.

And then what happened after I responded to your post? You didn't address any of the points I made, like how the US was a trade hub, or the high rate of obesity, or the large elderly population, or how some states did a terrible job protecting the elderly in congregate care hubs. You just ignored all that, and tried to dismiss my entire post on the basis of the governors I listed.

You do this all the time.

oggsmash

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #262 on: August 08, 2021, 01:52:40 PM »


He deleted his account, of course, but the Wayback Machine saved a copy. http://web.archive.org/web/20210804173841/https://twitter.com/larsmcmurtry

But by all means, 'it's just conspiracy talk that we want people to be forced to take the vax!'.

After the first felony, the rest are free, you know.
So the guy has a posting style that's much like that of SHARK. Both make outlandish claims and encourage violence towards those that disagree with them. Both are repugnant, but that hardly creates a crisis in reality.

   Every fight, or episode of violence I ever saw, started with words.   

Pat
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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #263 on: August 08, 2021, 02:00:09 PM »
Moving the goalposts, I see.
That's a mild case. Usually, Reckall just ignores the goalposts, runs to a completely different field, makes sure nobody's around, closes to within 2 feet of the goal, kicks the ball thru, and then tries to claim victory.

I admit that doing this, vs. simply claiming victory "because", is unpractical :D
It's good you admit you're behaving in such a shitty fashion.

It would be better if you just stopped acting like that.

It would be even better to see a real discussion going on. ::)
Yeah, that's the point. There's no way to have a real discussion when you keep ignoring what people say
Nope. Disagreeing with what people say =/= ignoring what people say.
That's a good example of ignoring what I said, because this particular discussion started because I pointed out that you replied to Kiero and claimed victory, but didn't address a single thing Kiero said.

Because. I. Already. Did.

And you were so absorbed with the absolutely certainty of your narrative that you weren't even able to really challenge me via the most basic question: "Where?"

Then people wonder why they end up "shut down" in their attempts to "discuss"  ::)
Then why didn't you just state that?

Because this isn't even one of those cases where you vaguely stated that you answered the question somewhere else in the thread, and they should go off and find it. Now that's a shitty answer, and a defacto admission that you've lost the argument. But at least by saying it, you're acknowledging what the other person said. You didn't even do that. You just went off on something completely unrelated.

Eirikrautha

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #264 on: August 08, 2021, 02:05:49 PM »
"Vaccines cause variants!"

Nope.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-delta-vaccine-idUSL1N2OW1TA

You disagree? Facts, please, not the sad, inane, internet hearsay spotlighted in these links - and that you are just regurgitating.

Reuters?  Try peer reviewed:
https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1002198

And the CDC:
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0730-mmwr-covid-19.html

The CDC has disclosed that the delta variant replicates more quickly in the nose than previous variants, meaning that it spreads through vaccinated hosts before the majority of the immune response (which mainly occurs in the lungs / CV system) is triggered.  Based on this, they admit (they head of the CDC said this on CNN) that the vaccines reduce the severity of Covid, but don't prevent infection.  Previous research has shown for other viruses : "Our data show that anti-disease vaccines that do not prevent transmission can create conditions that promote the emergence of pathogen strains that cause more severe disease in unvaccinated hosts."

So vaccines that allow reproduction and/or continued transmission may very well create new strains.  So you are wrong.
Those point to that being a threat to the unvaccinated. Being vaccinated is a way to reduce that theat.
So vaccination should just be a personal choice, based on each individual's own risk assessment?  Because a lot of people have told me that we have to mandate vaccination in order to prevent the development of new variants.  So you're saying that's not an issue at all for vaccinated people?
I'm saying that your source doesn't support the part of the discussion you're now trying to go with.
You'd be wrong (as usual).  Do vaccines that stop serious consequences from illness, but do not stop transmission of the virus, present a possible vector for viral variance?  I have posted a peer-reviewed article that says exactly that.

No, it doesn't, from the very title: "Imperfect Vaccination". No vaccine approved for emergency use by the FDA/EMA ever got the label "imperfect".

And what it says is that "Imperfect Vaccinations" can cause the vaccinated guy to be a possible vector for viral variances the way an unvaccinated guy is. However, we also saw - in the CDC link that you posted - how in our specific case only the Delta variant is a nasty little bugger for vaccinated people. Other variants are blocked by vaccines. Unvaccinated people get and distribute all the variants. The whole package.

The peer-reviewed refutation of what you posted are the very links you posted. Thank you for the effort.
OMG.  Imperfect is a description, not a formal label.  For a minute, I thought you might be capable of a direct debate.  But no; you are either too stupid to understand how to read correctly, or you are just deflecting any point you can't counter..  Because it is obvious that both you and Happyderp can't counter the information provided.  You can't even read it properly!  What a waste of time.  The only good thing is that anyone reading these threads can easily see you are arguing in bad faith with no support...

HappyDaze

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #265 on: August 08, 2021, 02:12:05 PM »


He deleted his account, of course, but the Wayback Machine saved a copy. http://web.archive.org/web/20210804173841/https://twitter.com/larsmcmurtry

But by all means, 'it's just conspiracy talk that we want people to be forced to take the vax!'.

After the first felony, the rest are free, you know.
So the guy has a posting style that's much like that of SHARK. Both make outlandish claims and encourage violence towards those that disagree with them. Both are repugnant, but that hardly creates a crisis in reality.

   Every fight, or episode of violence I ever saw, started with words.
That doesn't mean words=violence. By all means condemn people that verbally encourage violence, but there is a huge divide between ugly words and ugly action.

On a side note, I have seen several violent encounters that did not involve exchanging words.

oggsmash

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #266 on: August 08, 2021, 02:34:50 PM »


He deleted his account, of course, but the Wayback Machine saved a copy. http://web.archive.org/web/20210804173841/https://twitter.com/larsmcmurtry

But by all means, 'it's just conspiracy talk that we want people to be forced to take the vax!'.

After the first felony, the rest are free, you know.
So the guy has a posting style that's much like that of SHARK. Both make outlandish claims and encourage violence towards those that disagree with them. Both are repugnant, but that hardly creates a crisis in reality.

   Every fight, or episode of violence I ever saw, started with words.
That doesn't mean words=violence. By all means condemn people that verbally encourage violence, but there is a huge divide between ugly words and ugly action.

On a side note, I have seen several violent encounters that did not involve exchanging words.

   I agree, but I bet you have not seen any violent encounters that did not involve exchanging words.  It is a whole lot more likely you were not there when the words got exchanged (or in the case of the worst violence, some young guys kill each other for shit some old dudes said to one another) or full context was not there, long standing beef where words are sort of long gone.  Point remains, the words come first.  I think the internet and people being soft makes them a bit looser with the violence talk (never having tasted a good dose themselves, or risking getting their heads caved in for saying the wrong thing to the wrong person) and it sort of does just become talk.  The same people will call violence talk a death threat.  Here is where that old pic of spidermen pointing at one another become relevant IMO, one side or the other talked shit, got some back or accused someone of death threats, and now everyone complains about death threats or violent talk leading somewhere.   
   I will say this though, if I have some disagreement over something on a curb, and some dude then says he is going to do something to me involving violence, I will take him at his word.

HappyDaze

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #267 on: August 08, 2021, 02:52:36 PM »


He deleted his account, of course, but the Wayback Machine saved a copy. http://web.archive.org/web/20210804173841/https://twitter.com/larsmcmurtry

But by all means, 'it's just conspiracy talk that we want people to be forced to take the vax!'.

After the first felony, the rest are free, you know.
So the guy has a posting style that's much like that of SHARK. Both make outlandish claims and encourage violence towards those that disagree with them. Both are repugnant, but that hardly creates a crisis in reality.

   Every fight, or episode of violence I ever saw, started with words.
That doesn't mean words=violence. By all means condemn people that verbally encourage violence, but there is a huge divide between ugly words and ugly action.

On a side note, I have seen several violent encounters that did not involve exchanging words.

   I agree, but I bet you have not seen any violent encounters that did not involve exchanging words.  It is a whole lot more likely you were not there when the words got exchanged (or in the case of the worst violence, some young guys kill each other for shit some old dudes said to one another) or full context was not there, long standing beef where words are sort of long gone.  Point remains, the words come first.  I think the internet and people being soft makes them a bit looser with the violence talk (never having tasted a good dose themselves, or risking getting their heads caved in for saying the wrong thing to the wrong person) and it sort of does just become talk.  The same people will call violence talk a death threat.  Here is where that old pic of spidermen pointing at one another become relevant IMO, one side or the other talked shit, got some back or accused someone of death threats, and now everyone complains about death threats or violent talk leading somewhere.   
   I will say this though, if I have some disagreement over something on a curb, and some dude then says he is going to do something to me involving violence, I will take him at his word.
I've worked in corrections (first as a CO, later as a nurse) and in both acute and forensic psych settings. I have seen spontaneous violence without any words being exchanged. I will agree though, that with most people in their right minds, immediate violence without any talk is fairly unusual.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2021, 02:54:16 PM by HappyDaze »

oggsmash

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #268 on: August 08, 2021, 03:35:48 PM »


He deleted his account, of course, but the Wayback Machine saved a copy. http://web.archive.org/web/20210804173841/https://twitter.com/larsmcmurtry

But by all means, 'it's just conspiracy talk that we want people to be forced to take the vax!'.

After the first felony, the rest are free, you know.
So the guy has a posting style that's much like that of SHARK. Both make outlandish claims and encourage violence towards those that disagree with them. Both are repugnant, but that hardly creates a crisis in reality.

   Every fight, or episode of violence I ever saw, started with words.
That doesn't mean words=violence. By all means condemn people that verbally encourage violence, but there is a huge divide between ugly words and ugly action.

On a side note, I have seen several violent encounters that did not involve exchanging words.

   I agree, but I bet you have not seen any violent encounters that did not involve exchanging words.  It is a whole lot more likely you were not there when the words got exchanged (or in the case of the worst violence, some young guys kill each other for shit some old dudes said to one another) or full context was not there, long standing beef where words are sort of long gone.  Point remains, the words come first.  I think the internet and people being soft makes them a bit looser with the violence talk (never having tasted a good dose themselves, or risking getting their heads caved in for saying the wrong thing to the wrong person) and it sort of does just become talk.  The same people will call violence talk a death threat.  Here is where that old pic of spidermen pointing at one another become relevant IMO, one side or the other talked shit, got some back or accused someone of death threats, and now everyone complains about death threats or violent talk leading somewhere.   
   I will say this though, if I have some disagreement over something on a curb, and some dude then says he is going to do something to me involving violence, I will take him at his word.
I've worked in corrections (first as a CO, later as a nurse) and in both acute and forensic psych settings. I have seen spontaneous violence without any words being exchanged. I will agree though, that with most people in their right minds, immediate violence without any talk is fairly unusual.

  Well, had you said crazy people just fly off and start with violence, I would certainly agree.  My bad, I should have dug on that one. 

HappyDaze

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #269 on: August 08, 2021, 03:38:15 PM »


He deleted his account, of course, but the Wayback Machine saved a copy. http://web.archive.org/web/20210804173841/https://twitter.com/larsmcmurtry

But by all means, 'it's just conspiracy talk that we want people to be forced to take the vax!'.

After the first felony, the rest are free, you know.
So the guy has a posting style that's much like that of SHARK. Both make outlandish claims and encourage violence towards those that disagree with them. Both are repugnant, but that hardly creates a crisis in reality.

   Every fight, or episode of violence I ever saw, started with words.
That doesn't mean words=violence. By all means condemn people that verbally encourage violence, but there is a huge divide between ugly words and ugly action.

On a side note, I have seen several violent encounters that did not involve exchanging words.

   I agree, but I bet you have not seen any violent encounters that did not involve exchanging words.  It is a whole lot more likely you were not there when the words got exchanged (or in the case of the worst violence, some young guys kill each other for shit some old dudes said to one another) or full context was not there, long standing beef where words are sort of long gone.  Point remains, the words come first.  I think the internet and people being soft makes them a bit looser with the violence talk (never having tasted a good dose themselves, or risking getting their heads caved in for saying the wrong thing to the wrong person) and it sort of does just become talk.  The same people will call violence talk a death threat.  Here is where that old pic of spidermen pointing at one another become relevant IMO, one side or the other talked shit, got some back or accused someone of death threats, and now everyone complains about death threats or violent talk leading somewhere.   
   I will say this though, if I have some disagreement over something on a curb, and some dude then says he is going to do something to me involving violence, I will take him at his word.
I've worked in corrections (first as a CO, later as a nurse) and in both acute and forensic psych settings. I have seen spontaneous violence without any words being exchanged. I will agree though, that with most people in their right minds, immediate violence without any talk is fairly unusual.

  Well, had you said crazy people just fly off and start with violence, I would certainly agree.  My bad, I should have dug on that one.
On this day, two people agreed on something on an internet forum!