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Author Topic: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!  (Read 199009 times)

Eirikrautha

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #225 on: August 08, 2021, 11:25:29 AM »
"Vaccines cause variants!"

Nope.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-delta-vaccine-idUSL1N2OW1TA

You disagree? Facts, please, not the sad, inane, internet hearsay spotlighted in these links - and that you are just regurgitating.

Reuters?  Try peer reviewed:
https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1002198

And the CDC:
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0730-mmwr-covid-19.html

The CDC has disclosed that the delta variant replicates more quickly in the nose than previous variants, meaning that it spreads through vaccinated hosts before the majority of the immune response (which mainly occurs in the lungs / CV system) is triggered.  Based on this, they admit (they head of the CDC said this on CNN) that the vaccines reduce the severity of Covid, but don't prevent infection.  Previous research has shown for other viruses : "Our data show that anti-disease vaccines that do not prevent transmission can create conditions that promote the emergence of pathogen strains that cause more severe disease in unvaccinated hosts."

So vaccines that allow reproduction and/or continued transmission may very well create new strains.  So you are wrong.

Pat
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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #226 on: August 08, 2021, 11:26:47 AM »
"Statements" like these would even be worthy of a glance, should the guy on the podium with the megaphone mention the hundreds of times that they have been tackled - and then debunk these answers. ::)

Oh surprise, you have no response to any of those points.

I already gave responses, on this very thread, with links. This is why I would expect a minimum of debunking effort, with references. But of course not anyone bothers to read what others actually say: a pulpit and a megafone don't work that way.

Anyway, here is an Article published on Nature about not only the COVID pandemic led to faster and sill safe methods to develop vaccines, but how the result could be a strategic breakthrough for medical sciences as a whole:
I notice you cut out the "statement" you're refuting. Here is it:

The "reality" is that you've allowed yourself to be injected with an experimental treatment. Something that is irreversible. The long-term consequences of which are unknown. The evidence even of short and medium term consequences is already starting to build up.
You didn't address a single one of those points.

For someone whose go-to response is "nobody reads my posts", you're not very good at reading other people's posts.

Or maybe I already tackled all those points, in this very thread. Try to check.

Oh, BTW, in my latest post I made an obvious mistake. My bad: just glancing at it is enough to catch it. But I guess you didn't read it. Of course the answer was instead the usual rush to "You didn't address this!" about things addressed over and over here.

Not even my request for facts and links was enough to prevent...
Quote
The evidence even of short and medium term consequences is already starting to build up.

...Without facts and links. ::) No. The usual Twitterati factoid, instead. Given as that. The literal Word of God.
So you responded to a post
Where you criticized the poster for not reading your posts
And then ignored the content of the post you were replying to
And instead posted a bunch of things that had nothing to do with what they said
And when I pointed that out
You told me it was my fault because I didn't read all the other posts in the thread where you replied to the post before it even existed

Yea, that makes perfect sense.

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #227 on: August 08, 2021, 11:26:57 AM »
I can't really argue points said by experts because Im not a experts. It would be one source (with their own biases) VS another source (with their own biases).

I don't know the science behind it well enough to argue one way or the other, which is why my concerns hang more on motivations and general actions.

Its like with global warming: I don't 100% know whats going on. But global warming advocates will reject any sort of assistance or compromise that doesn't involve absolute submission to their ideals. We don't need to 100% agree to remove plastics from the oceans for instance, but every global warming advocate I have spoken to will NEVER let their demand for submission go. Which tells me this (even if the science is accurate) is more a ego thing then a function thing.

oggsmash

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #228 on: August 08, 2021, 11:44:02 AM »
  I do not get the fight over the vax.  If you think you are vulnerable, or need it, get it.  If you are not and do not feel that way, do not get it.  If it had higher mortality of it's own I might feel differently, but it does not.  Kids do not seem bothered a whit, and for the most part fat people, old people with issues and diabetics seems the most vulnerable.  That has not changed.  If you fall into a category of concern due to data or your own feelings, wear a respirator or a gas mask out and about in the world.  Problem solved.

HappyDaze

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #229 on: August 08, 2021, 11:54:04 AM »
"Vaccines cause variants!"

Nope.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-delta-vaccine-idUSL1N2OW1TA

You disagree? Facts, please, not the sad, inane, internet hearsay spotlighted in these links - and that you are just regurgitating.

Reuters?  Try peer reviewed:
https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1002198

And the CDC:
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0730-mmwr-covid-19.html

The CDC has disclosed that the delta variant replicates more quickly in the nose than previous variants, meaning that it spreads through vaccinated hosts before the majority of the immune response (which mainly occurs in the lungs / CV system) is triggered.  Based on this, they admit (they head of the CDC said this on CNN) that the vaccines reduce the severity of Covid, but don't prevent infection.  Previous research has shown for other viruses : "Our data show that anti-disease vaccines that do not prevent transmission can create conditions that promote the emergence of pathogen strains that cause more severe disease in unvaccinated hosts."

So vaccines that allow reproduction and/or continued transmission may very well create new strains.  So you are wrong.
Those point to that being a threat to the unvaccinated. Being vaccinated is a way to reduce that theat.

Kiero

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #230 on: August 08, 2021, 11:58:55 AM »
  I do not get the fight over the vax.  If you think you are vulnerable, or need it, get it.  If you are not and do not feel that way, do not get it.  If it had higher mortality of it's own I might feel differently, but it does not.  Kids do not seem bothered a whit, and for the most part fat people, old people with issues and diabetics seems the most vulnerable.  That has not changed.  If you fall into a category of concern due to data or your own feelings, wear a respirator or a gas mask out and about in the world.  Problem solved.

There's a "fight" because the cunts in charge think they can force it on my children.
Currently running: Tyche's Favourites, a historical ACKS campaign set around Massalia in 300BC.

Our podcast site, In Sanity We Trust Productions.

HappyDaze

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #231 on: August 08, 2021, 11:59:09 AM »
  I do not get the fight over the vax.  If you think you are vulnerable, or need it, get it.  If you are not and do not feel that way, do not get it.  If it had higher mortality of it's own I might feel differently, but it does not.  Kids do not seem bothered a whit, and for the most part fat people, old people with issues and diabetics seems the most vulnerable.  That has not changed.  If you fall into a category of concern due to data or your own feelings, wear a respirator or a gas mask out and about in the world.  Problem solved.
I have seen very few children that test positive with Delta Covid, and none have had any major symptoms. I've seen several adolescents and people in their 20s testing positive, but their symptoms have been largely GI disturbances rather than the life-threatening lower respiratory conditions.

HappyDaze

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #232 on: August 08, 2021, 12:00:12 PM »
  I do not get the fight over the vax.  If you think you are vulnerable, or need it, get it.  If you are not and do not feel that way, do not get it.  If it had higher mortality of it's own I might feel differently, but it does not.  Kids do not seem bothered a whit, and for the most part fat people, old people with issues and diabetics seems the most vulnerable.  That has not changed.  If you fall into a category of concern due to data or your own feelings, wear a respirator or a gas mask out and about in the world.  Problem solved.

There's a "fight" because the cunts in charge think they can force it on my children.
Evidence? Show us some footage of someone forcing it upon your children.

Kiero

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #233 on: August 08, 2021, 12:01:19 PM »
No.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-iceland-vaccines-idUSL1N2P918F

"Vaccines cause variants!"

Nope.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-delta-vaccine-idUSL1N2OW1TA

You disagree? Facts, please, not the sad, inane, internet hearsay spotlighted in these links - and that you are just regurgitating.
You produce bullshit from "fact checkers" in earnest and expect me to take you seriously?
Currently running: Tyche's Favourites, a historical ACKS campaign set around Massalia in 300BC.

Our podcast site, In Sanity We Trust Productions.

Kiero

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #234 on: August 08, 2021, 12:04:58 PM »
Evidence? Show us some footage of someone forcing it upon your children.

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, is it? I said they think they can. Not being a blinkered moron like yourself, I am capable of inferring motives from activities, such as the latest missive from our JCVI where they issued a statement on jabbing 12-17 year olds: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/jcvi-statement-august-2021-covid-19-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-17-years/jcvi-statement-on-covid-19-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-17-years-4-august-2021

That's everyone at secondary school. Meanwhile the manufacturers are seeking approval to jab 5-11 year olds (do you need me to go and find easily sourced articles showing them seeking that approval too?), which will cover everyone at primary school.
Currently running: Tyche's Favourites, a historical ACKS campaign set around Massalia in 300BC.

Our podcast site, In Sanity We Trust Productions.

Reckall

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #235 on: August 08, 2021, 12:07:50 PM »
"Vaccines cause variants!"

Nope.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-delta-vaccine-idUSL1N2OW1TA

You disagree? Facts, please, not the sad, inane, internet hearsay spotlighted in these links - and that you are just regurgitating.

Reuters?  Try peer reviewed:
https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1002198

And the CDC:
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0730-mmwr-covid-19.html

The CDC has disclosed that the delta variant replicates more quickly in the nose than previous variants, meaning that it spreads through vaccinated hosts before the majority of the immune response (which mainly occurs in the lungs / CV system) is triggered.  Based on this, they admit (they head of the CDC said this on CNN) that the vaccines reduce the severity of Covid, but don't prevent infection.  Previous research has shown for other viruses : "Our data show that anti-disease vaccines that do not prevent transmission can create conditions that promote the emergence of pathogen strains that cause more severe disease in unvaccinated hosts."

So vaccines that allow reproduction and/or continued transmission may very well create new strains.  So you are wrong.

Sigh.

You haven't really read everything through, did you?

And, honestly, I'm starting to be tired to read links for people who just post them. "Mom, can you read me 'Snow White and the Rocket Launcher'?" should belong to children. Maybe it is.

Anyway...

I post a link about how "Vaccines do not create variants." That's the point of the link.

And you answer with links that say:

"Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens" from 2015.

I mean... it is in the title! "Imperfect Vaccination"! ;D Who ever talked of "imperfect vaccinations" regarding Covid? Have you read the definition of "Imperfect Vaccination" given in the study? Does it apply to the current batch of vaccines? Answer: until proven otherwise, no. It is possible that a case could be made for the Chinese and Russian vaccines - not about what we are talking here. Also, you go against what is being observed out the practical experience born out a global pandemic, with billions of test cases observed over months... with a 2015 study who is the very first to admit that such expectation is only theoretical?

Then you fire your CDC link. A link with a very simple content, actually. It says:

"Delta infection resulted in similarly high SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated people. High viral loads suggest an increased risk of transmission and raised concern that, unlike with other variants, vaccinated people infected with Delta can transmit the virus."


Nowhere it says that "The Delta Variant was created by vaccines". More, the very text you linked says that being vaccinated still protects against all other variants and that you can't transmit them - which is still better than nothing.

[Which is one of the reasons why I think that a third shot will be mandatory]

The CDC, however, never pulled down this:

COVID-19 variants do not derive from the vaccine. The vaccine cannot replicate the virus. Guidance from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) explaining how mRNA vaccines only provide instructions to the cells in the human body on how to make a “spike protein” is visible here .

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html

Uff... ::)

Let's close with a small gem from a "Owner of the Truth":

You produce bullshit from "fact checkers" in earnest and expect me to take you seriously?

Bullshit? Cite. Counter-Facts? Links?

Either that or you are just in denial of everything that goes against the world view that you have decided for everybody - which is very SJW and "Tolkien was a Transgender!", but has nothing to do with a real and serious problem like a pandemic.
For every idiot who denounces Ayn Rand as "intellectualism" there is an excellent DM who creates a "Bioshock" adventure.

HappyDaze

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #236 on: August 08, 2021, 12:12:52 PM »
Evidence? Show us some footage of someone forcing it upon your children.

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, is it? I said they think they can. Not being a blinkered moron like yourself, I am capable of inferring motives from activities, such as the latest missive from our JCVI where they issued a statement on jabbing 12-17 year olds: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/jcvi-statement-august-2021-covid-19-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-17-years/jcvi-statement-on-covid-19-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-17-years-4-august-2021

That's everyone at secondary school. Meanwhile the manufacturers are seeking approval to jab 5-11 year olds (do you need me to go and find easily sourced articles showing them seeking that approval too?), which will cover everyone at primary school.
So...ThoughtCrime then? People can think whatever the fuck they want. Show me someone taking action or else you're just another crazy nutter running his cakehole.

Kiero

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #237 on: August 08, 2021, 12:14:41 PM »
So...ThoughtCrime then? People can think whatever the fuck they want. Show me someone taking action or else you're just another crazy nutter running his cakehole.

They're the people responsible for the vaccination programme in the UK, you imbecile. It's not some random opinion piece in an obscure online publication.

It's a statement of intent from the people doing the jabbing. They wouldn't carry out that assessment unless someone in government had given them the nod that it's happening.
Currently running: Tyche's Favourites, a historical ACKS campaign set around Massalia in 300BC.

Our podcast site, In Sanity We Trust Productions.

oggsmash

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #238 on: August 08, 2021, 12:16:41 PM »
  I do not get the fight over the vax.  If you think you are vulnerable, or need it, get it.  If you are not and do not feel that way, do not get it.  If it had higher mortality of it's own I might feel differently, but it does not.  Kids do not seem bothered a whit, and for the most part fat people, old people with issues and diabetics seems the most vulnerable.  That has not changed.  If you fall into a category of concern due to data or your own feelings, wear a respirator or a gas mask out and about in the world.  Problem solved.

There's a "fight" because the cunts in charge think they can force it on my children.
 
  You misunderstand me.  I mean on this forum.  I do not see any laws/policies as yet mandating vaccines for my kids.  I do think there are most certainly people who would LOVE to mandate such a thing.  But honestly a person's thoughts do not bother me as much as overt actions.  If schools become vaccine mandates for covid, I will just send my kids to private school.  If they go the same route...well homeschool and private online schools are taken  A MASSIVE step forward in quality and presentation (and funding) the past year and a half.

Eirikrautha

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #239 on: August 08, 2021, 12:18:03 PM »
"Vaccines cause variants!"

Nope.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-delta-vaccine-idUSL1N2OW1TA

You disagree? Facts, please, not the sad, inane, internet hearsay spotlighted in these links - and that you are just regurgitating.

Reuters?  Try peer reviewed:
https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1002198

And the CDC:
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0730-mmwr-covid-19.html

The CDC has disclosed that the delta variant replicates more quickly in the nose than previous variants, meaning that it spreads through vaccinated hosts before the majority of the immune response (which mainly occurs in the lungs / CV system) is triggered.  Based on this, they admit (they head of the CDC said this on CNN) that the vaccines reduce the severity of Covid, but don't prevent infection.  Previous research has shown for other viruses : "Our data show that anti-disease vaccines that do not prevent transmission can create conditions that promote the emergence of pathogen strains that cause more severe disease in unvaccinated hosts."

So vaccines that allow reproduction and/or continued transmission may very well create new strains.  So you are wrong.

Sigh.

You haven't really read everything through, did you?

And, honestly, I'm starting to be tired to read links for people who just post them. "Mom, can you read me 'Snow White and the Rocket Launcher'?" should belong to children. Maybe it is.

Anyway...

I post a link about how "Vaccines do not create variants." That's the point of the link.

And you answer with links that say:

"Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens" from 2015.

I mean... it is in the title! "Imperfect Vaccination"! ;D Who ever talked of "imperfect vaccinations" regarding Covid? Have you read the definition of "Imperfect Vaccination" given in the study? Does it apply to the current batch of vaccines? Answer: until proven otherwise, no. It is possible that a case could be made for the Chinese and Russian vaccines - not about what we are talking here. Also, you go against what is being observed out the practical experience born out a global pandemic, with billions of test cases observed over months... with a 2015 study who is the very first to admit that such expectation is only theoretical?

Then you fire your CDC link. A link with a very simple content, actually. It says:

"Delta infection resulted in similarly high SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated people. High viral loads suggest an increased risk of transmission and raised concern that, unlike with other variants, vaccinated people infected with Delta can transmit the virus."


Nowhere it says that "The Delta Variant was created by vaccines". More, the very text you linked says that being vaccinated still protects against all other variants and that you can't transmit them - which is still better than nothing.

[Which is one of the reasons why I think that a third shot will be mandatory]

The CDC, however, never pulled down this:

COVID-19 variants do not derive from the vaccine. The vaccine cannot replicate the virus. Guidance from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) explaining how mRNA vaccines only provide instructions to the cells in the human body on how to make a “spike protein” is visible here .

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html

Uff... ::)

Let's close with a small gem from a "Owner of the Truth":

You produce bullshit from "fact checkers" in earnest and expect me to take you seriously?

Bullshit? Cite. Counter-Facts? Links?

Either that or you are just in denial of everything that goes against the world view that you have decided for everybody - which is very SJW and "Tolkien was a Transgender!", but has nothing to do with a real and serious problem like a pandemic.
Moving the goalposts, I see.  You didn't say "vaccines didn't cause delta".  You said "Vaccines cause variants.  Nope!"  You did not address the central point: Vaccines that don't stop transmission can drive viral variance (which is what "imperfect" means in the context of the article, you uneducated dolt).  The Covid vaccines don't stop transmission well.  Therefore...
« Last Edit: August 08, 2021, 12:20:46 PM by Eirikrautha »