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Author Topic: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!  (Read 199153 times)

Reckall

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #150 on: August 06, 2021, 12:55:17 PM »
H. Scott Apley, who according to the Galveston News was a member of the Galveston County Republican Party and Dickinson City council, was 45 years old. No listed pre-existing conditions.

On Facebook last week he posted:

“In 6 months, we’ve gone from the vax ending the pandemic, to you can still get Covid even if vaxxed, to you can pass Covid onto others even if vaxxed, to you can still die of Covid even if vaxxed, to the unvaxxed are killing the vaxxed,” the post read.

Apley was admitted to a Galveston hospital two days after that post with pneumonia-like symptoms, according to a GoFundMe page. He tested positive for COVID-19 and was placed on a ventilator.

He died around 3 a.m. Wednesday, according to the GoFundMe.

His wife and 5-month-old son also tested positive for the virus, KTRK reported.

This could be any of you guys here saying exactly the same kind of stuff this guy posted last week. And now he's dead.

Please, get your vaccines guys. Even if it's just the J&J Vaccine which uses more "normal" tech behind it, just get it.
He was morbidly obese.  He may have died from Covid, or he may have died with Covid.

Let me see if I understood this right... This guy was living his life before getting COVID and died after getting COVID?
And you accused Pat of living in a simplistic world?

There is the possibility that he was living his life with no health issues, he got Covid, the effects of Covid caused strain on his body's systems and he died of the results of having Covid.

There is the possibility that he was living his life with chronic or acute health issues, he went to the hospital and was tested for Covid (the news reports state he was not admitted for Covid and was only tested after he went to the hospital), and he died of whatever chronic or acute health issues he had, while carrying Covid in his system.

Provide your evidence for either.  You don't know (in fact, none except his family does).  But you are certainly quick to jump to one.

I hope you are aware that COVID is a potential danger to your system no matter what.

I don't know this guy. I'm still sorry that he died, because I would never wish that to anyone. But if he had "chronic or acute health issues" he should have been extra-careful: adding COVID to them is not something I would want. The reason should be obvious.
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Pat
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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #151 on: August 06, 2021, 01:02:01 PM »
Quote
That's not what "theory" means.

I'm listening.
A theory is just a hypothesis. The ideal is it should be testable, but that's not always the case in practice (cf. string theory). They're distinguished from axioms, which are things that have to be assumed to be true, because they can't be proven.

The word theory doesn't imply anything about its validity. It covers all the wild hairbrained ideas, as well as widely accepted theories, like the theory of gravity. But regardless of how widely accepted it is, all theories are still subject to challenges, revisions, and even being overthrown. We saw this with gravity. Newton's formulation was amazingly accurate, but Einstein showed it was just a special case and provided a more general set of rules. And currently the problems with a quantum theory of gravity show there's still a big hole in the current understanding.

All the different proposals about the origin of the 1918 flu are theories. Calling some of them just theories and others something else isn't a valid distinction. They're all theories. It's the strength of the evidence in support of each of the different theories that matters. And as I've said several times, none of the theories are conclusive. We don't really know where the 1918 flu originated. Likely we'll never know, because sufficient information was not preserved.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2021, 01:49:16 PM by Pat »

Reckall

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #152 on: August 06, 2021, 01:32:35 PM »
I'm not ever angry at our own government, because I understood that everyone was learning by trial. If anything, it was the fear of applying too draconian measures that allowed the pandemic to rage. Only when truly draconian measures were applied we were able to contain it.
Except that's false. The most dracocian measures haven't contained it.

Except that here they did. As I posted earlier, no one can cancel the death toll of the first wave in Italy  - but that death toll (along with the initial wave of cases) is exactly the yardstick that shows how, after the Italian government went against the virus with everything they had, the transmission index collapsed.
If everyone who could be infected was infected, the number of cases drops. The Italian government can't take credit for their failure.
You're wasting your breath.  Remember, this poster has high standards for sources, until he posts links to a local Jacksonville TV station to bash DeSantis (and we know TV news has no reason to bash DeSantis, now that he is becoming a political frontrunner).

I almost forgot about this one, because it's a small gem amid the general flapping.

I posted a source about DeSantis. I choose the one that gave the most info in the most synthetic manner, because this thread is already made by walls of text (who no one reads anyway before answering).

Do you want others? Because I have a ton.

But, even before that, do you have better sources that disprove what I posted? I'm listening. Hint "Shooting the messenger" is a fail. Now, please, you have the microphone. I'll sit right there.
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HappyDaze

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #153 on: August 06, 2021, 01:46:15 PM »
Oh dear, the "vaccines" don't actually do a thing for the Delta variant: https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-delta-infections-produce-similar-levels-of-virus-regardless-of-vaccination-status-suggests-early-analysis-12374244

Sly Views, but the fact that it's even being reported in the scum media says something. Almost as though the "vaccines" don't fucking work...
Did you read your own source, dumbass? Go past the headline and it outright says that the vaccinations are effective.

Kiero

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #154 on: August 06, 2021, 02:12:51 PM »
Did you read your own source, dumbass? Go past the headline and it outright says that the vaccinations are effective.

I did, and it's the usual circular bullshit about how "this shows it's really working" and trying to brazen out the fact that they actually do nothing.

Assertions from scum like Sky News are meaningless.
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HappyDaze

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #155 on: August 06, 2021, 02:15:26 PM »
Did you read your own source, dumbass? Go past the headline and it outright says that the vaccinations are effective.

I did, and it's the usual circular bullshit about how "this shows it's really working" and trying to brazen out the fact that they actually do nothing.

Assertions from scum like Sky News are meaningless.
So you post sources that are bullshit. Got it.

FelixGamingX1

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #156 on: August 06, 2021, 03:06:09 PM »
Did you read your own source, dumbass? Go past the headline and it outright says that the vaccinations are effective.

I did, and it's the usual circular bullshit about how "this shows it's really working" and trying to brazen out the fact that they actually do nothing.

Assertions from scum like Sky News are meaningless.

We might get to a point where you would almost pass for being right. The frequent mutations might eventually hinder the vaccine less effective and Moderna is already talking about a third booster by winter. But just to make it clear, your theories are always so far off it’s hard to think you ain’t trolling.
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GriswaldTerrastone
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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #157 on: August 06, 2021, 03:11:54 PM »
The vaccinations aren't even FDA approved, for crying out loud.

Nor is the COVID for what matters. Are you even aware of how an influenza virus works?


Given that I was a science major I know how the "scientific method" is supposed to work, better than most. The problem in society today is that "science" has become an insanely arrogant religion.

I first saw the commercial with former Presidents saying how safe and effective the vaccines were- a few months ago. During an episode of "American Greed" about a Pfizer pain killer that killed people and made their flesh fall off, which was covered up for as long as possible. One of the vaccines is from Pfizer. Great timing, aye?

So- how did they know it was "safe" and "effective?" They had only just recently appeared. Where were the long-term studies? The control groups? The taking of population density, poverty, demographics, age, etc. into account? ANY evidence that would not get you flunked out of first semester biology?

Did you know it is "effective?" All right, define "effective." They know people will assume that means what it used to with the polio and measles vaccines long ago: get it and you are protected. But now it means "treats lesser symptoms."

Given the standards for FDA approval, anyone with any sense had better worry if something does not have it.

I understand this better than you, clearly. AND- if a vaccine creates a false sense of security people will get careless, thus actually making the problem worse!

Fun Fact: Given the way this disease is supposed to spread the WHO is wrong about three feet, the CDC wrong about six feet- to get it right a bare minimum of TWENTY FEET social distancing is needed. Apparently the CDC admitted their figure came out of nowhere.
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Reckall

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #158 on: August 06, 2021, 03:29:11 PM »
We might get to a point where you would almost pass for being right. The frequent mutations might eventually hinder the vaccine less effective and Moderna is already talking about a third booster by winter.

It is already starting. My dentist already booked her third shot via the Dentists Association. It will be either in October or November, but it is a done thing.

All this talk of "it is possible that maybe there could be the necessity..." only means "there will be a third shot". They are only preparing the terrain.
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GeekyBugle

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #159 on: August 06, 2021, 03:44:46 PM »
Quote
That's not what "theory" means.

I'm listening.
A theory is just a hypothesis. The ideal is it should be testable, but that's not always the case in practice (cf. string theory). They're distinguished from axioms, which are things that have to be assumed to be true, because they can't be proven.

The word theory doesn't imply anything about its validity. It covers all the wild hairbrained ideas, as well as widely accepted theories, like the theory of gravity. But regardless of how widely accepted it is, all theories are still subject to challenges, revisions, and even being overthrown. We saw this with gravity. Newton's formulation was amazingly accurate, but Einstein showed it was just a special case and provided a more general set of rules. And currently the problems with a quantum theory of gravity show there's still a big hole in the current understanding.

All the different proposals about the origin of the 1918 flu are theories. Calling some of them just theories and others something else isn't a valid distinction. They're all theories. It's the strength of the evidence in support of each of the different theories that matters. And as I've said several times, none of the theories are conclusive. We don't really know where the 1918 flu originated. Likely we'll never know, because sufficient information was not preserved.

Sorry Pat but no, I do agree that the "theory" about the spanish flu origin is just a hypothesis, but a Theory isn't something you can test, it's the explanation of all those tests you already did:

The Theory of Gravity, just explains why the laws work, after we know they work, and makes predictions, that IF proven wrong would send the Theory back to the drawing board.

For example Evolution and punctuated equilibrium, rapid evolution. Before it was thought evolution ALWAYS took millions of years, when it was proven this wasn't the case then rapid evolution + punctuated equilibrium were postulated and added to the Theory.

Mind you, it wasn't proven that evolution doesn't happen or that the general laws aren't true, just a small part of the Theory needed to be ammended to account for the new discoveries.

And those new discoveries didn't contradict the core laws of the Theory.

T.L;D.R : Hypothesis > Tests (if proven correct then) > Law > Theory

Or put in math terms: Theory > Law > Hypothesis
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moonsweeper

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #160 on: August 06, 2021, 03:46:36 PM »
Since I am guessing you do not know much about employment in the US and OSHA, You probably do not know about the 'general duty clause' for OSHA.

First of all, I'm glad to get an answer based on a quote I had to pull out - if you get my meaning :D

Since you posted the link in response to someone that wasn't me I have no idea what you mean? ???
I was simply trying to clarify exactly one particular point for you...

That the Covid jabs were being treated in a manner that was contradictory to the regulations and that OSHA was specifically informing employers of that alteration of the standard regulations...

I did not bring mask mandates or 'freedom' or anything else into the conversation. 
I don't remember mentioning 'Bill Gates' or the 'Deep State' in the discussion.

What I pointed out was that the government agency in charge of health and safety in the workplace in the US did away with one of its basic standard requirements at a time when that particular requirement would be very useful for record keeping purposes.

I was attempting to do it in a polite manner since I made the assumption that you (Italian) might not be aware of some of the OSHA (US) background requirements and why this raises concerns.


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GeekyBugle

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #161 on: August 06, 2021, 03:48:56 PM »
We might get to a point where you would almost pass for being right. The frequent mutations might eventually hinder the vaccine less effective and Moderna is already talking about a third booster by winter.

It is already starting. My dentist already booked her third shot via the Dentists Association. It will be either in October or November, but it is a done thing.

All this talk of "it is possible that maybe there could be the necessity..." only means "there will be a third shot". They are only preparing the terrain.

And a 4th, 5th, 6th until they say a whole new vaccine is needed for the variant Epsilon Gama Tango and start again.

All talk about herd immunity will be squashed, all talk of conventional drugs (especially if out of patent) being used will be squashed, all your liberties will be stolen on the say so of unaccountable unelected fucks that have been proven wrong several times already or have been proven lying to cover up for China/WHO/Fauci.

Welcome to the new normal, you'll own nothing and be happy.
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Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

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FelixGamingX1

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #162 on: August 06, 2021, 03:58:04 PM »

Welcome to the new normal, you'll own nothing and be happy.

Scary times we live in indeed. Frightening, to say the least.
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Pat
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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #163 on: August 06, 2021, 04:15:01 PM »
T.L;D.R : Hypothesis > Tests (if proven correct then) > Law > Theory

Or put in math terms: Theory > Law > Hypothesis
1 > 0
0 < 1
Can't both be correct.

Reckall

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #164 on: August 06, 2021, 04:19:07 PM »
Quote
Since I am guessing you do not know much about employment in the US and OSHA, You probably do not know about the 'general duty clause' for OSHA.

First of all, I'm glad to get an answer based on a quote I had to pull out - if you get my meaning :D

Since you posted the link in response to someone that wasn't me I have no idea what you mean? ???

I think that there is a misunderstanding here. I was simply happy that finally an answer was based on a quote with a reference. I only sighed because the original reference was wrong and, even in this welcome case, it was me who actually had to do another guy's job. I was not talking about you. :)

Quote
I was simply trying to clarify exactly one particular point for you...

Yes, I understood that. And I didn't say that you mentioned masks =/= freedom or such. I said that. From my vantage point outside the USA I'm noticing that some topics, from masks to vaccines, are, for the lack of a better word, "hot", while, for examples, mandatory helmets in a building site aren't.

So, I pushed forward the idea that maybe OSHA is using that language in an unprecedented situation to avoid any kind of potentially bad confrontation - while still keeping open the door for people to report vaccines' side effects. I think I underlined enough that this hypothesis is IMHO, and that you are better informed than me to judge if it is feasible.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2021, 04:20:42 PM by Reckall »
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