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Author Topic: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!  (Read 199063 times)

Reckall

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #135 on: August 06, 2021, 09:55:43 AM »
H. Scott Apley, who according to the Galveston News was a member of the Galveston County Republican Party and Dickinson City council, was 45 years old. No listed pre-existing conditions.

On Facebook last week he posted:

“In 6 months, we’ve gone from the vax ending the pandemic, to you can still get Covid even if vaxxed, to you can pass Covid onto others even if vaxxed, to you can still die of Covid even if vaxxed, to the unvaxxed are killing the vaxxed,” the post read.

Apley was admitted to a Galveston hospital two days after that post with pneumonia-like symptoms, according to a GoFundMe page. He tested positive for COVID-19 and was placed on a ventilator.

He died around 3 a.m. Wednesday, according to the GoFundMe.

His wife and 5-month-old son also tested positive for the virus, KTRK reported.

This could be any of you guys here saying exactly the same kind of stuff this guy posted last week. And now he's dead.

Please, get your vaccines guys. Even if it's just the J&J Vaccine which uses more "normal" tech behind it, just get it.
He was morbidly obese.  He may have died from Covid, or he may have died with Covid.

Let me see if I understood this right... This guy was living his life before getting COVID and died after getting COVID?
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Pat
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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #136 on: August 06, 2021, 09:55:48 AM »
I'm not ever angry at our own government, because I understood that everyone was learning by trial. If anything, it was the fear of applying too draconian measures that allowed the pandemic to rage. Only when truly draconian measures were applied we were able to contain it.
Except that's false. The most dracocian measures haven't contained it.

Except that here they did. As I posted earlier, no one can cancel the death toll of the first wave in Italy  - but that death toll (along with the initial wave of cases) is exactly the yardstick that shows how, after the Italian government went against the virus with everything they had, the transmission index collapsed.
If everyone who could be infected was infected, the number of cases drops. The Italian government can't take credit for their failure.

HappyDaze

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #137 on: August 06, 2021, 10:00:24 AM »
Watch how the data is being cooked.. Consider that the dramatically higher rate of infection means that even with a lower percentage of deaths, Delta can still result in an overall increase in deaths. Right now, it is certainly contributing to a greater demand for hospitalizations, mostly among the non-vaccinated.

moonsweeper

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #138 on: August 06, 2021, 10:01:34 AM »

Quote
Are adverse reactions to the COVID-19 vaccine recordable on the OSHA recordkeeping log?

DOL and OSHA, as well as other federal agencies, are working diligently to encourage COVID-19 vaccinations. OSHA does not wish to have any appearance of discouraging workers from receiving COVID-19 vaccination, and also does not wish to disincentivize employers’ vaccination efforts. As a result, OSHA will not enforce 29 CFR 1904’s recording requirements to require any employers to record worker side effects from COVID-19 vaccination through May 2022. We will reevaluate the agency’s position at that time to determine the best course of action moving forward.

https://www.osha.gov/coronavirus/faqs


Amazing. The very first line in this link says:

Given the evolving nature of the pandemic, OSHA is in the process of reviewing and updating this document. These materials may no longer represent current OSHA recommendations and guidance.For the most up-to-date information, consult Protecting Workers Guidance.

Since I see that you got an "Evil Hat" attitude, I'll dig further for you.

Here is the link we are provided. You have to look here now:

https://www.osha.gov/coronavirus/safework

Point 9. While it confirms what you posted, here is the last line.

Individuals may choose to submit adverse reactions to the federal Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System.

And we are even openly given the link: https://vaers.hhs.gov/reportevent.html

You are not forced to stay silent at all. You want to report? You have our blessing.

And you get fries. I didn't.

The actual line is...
Quote
Note on recording adverse reactions to vaccines: DOL and OSHA, as well as other federal agencies, are working diligently to encourage COVID-19 vaccinations. OSHA does not want to give any suggestion of discouraging workers from receiving COVID-19 vaccination or to disincentivize employers' vaccination efforts. As a result, OSHA will not enforce 29 CFR 1904's recording requirements to require any employers to record worker side effects from COVID-19 vaccination through May 2022. OSHA will reevaluate the agency's position at that time to determine the best course of action moving forward. Individuals may choose to submit adverse reactions to the federal Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System.

Since I am guessing you do not know much about employment in the US and OSHA, You probably do not know about the 'general duty clause' for OSHA.  All employers are legally required to take all possible steps to create a safe work environment.  Under OSHA, they are required to be proactive, including documenting any and all safety hazards associated with such.  Under regular OSHA rules the employer is always in violation for failing to record any possible safety issues.  That is why there is an emphasized 'note' under that heading...OSHA is specifically telling companies that they will not be held to the general duty clause (The basis for all OSHA mandates) at this time, in this one particular instance...

In other words, OSHA has told companies that their core safety requirement is not going to be applied for the jab side effects...

Now why would they want the company to ignore their basic recording requirement in this case?...They still require it for businesses that mandate flu and other vaccines...

HR departments that mandate other vaccines already have all the paperwork and knowledge to fill it out.  The ones that don't are used to dealing with new regulations on a regular basis.  So this would be an almost perfect opportunity to build a real database of possible side effects and adverse reactions from the US worker population...yet OSHA explicitly removed it.

Unless you believe an actual US government bureaucracy is actively trying to reduce the amount of paperwork it requires (but only in this one critically important instance...you know...'the worst pandemic evuh').
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Pat
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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #139 on: August 06, 2021, 10:03:14 AM »
Watch how the data is being cooked.. Consider that the dramatically higher rate of infection means that even with a lower percentage of deaths, Delta can still result in an overall increase in deaths. Right now, it is certainly contributing to a greater demand for hospitalizations, mostly among the non-vaccinated.
That's valid, but in most areas it seems to be resulting in a more cases, but fewer deaths.

Reckall

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #140 on: August 06, 2021, 10:27:24 AM »
I see the current death rate for the Wuhan Covid

...And then there is this.

Do you know from where the so-called "Spanish Flu" actually came from?

"Epidemiological evidence suggests that a new influenza virus originated in Haskell County, Kansas, early in 1918. Evidence further suggests that this virus traveled east across the state to a huge army base, and from there to Europe. Later it began its sweep through North America, through Europe, through South America, through Asia and Africa, through isolated islands in the Pacific, through all the wide world."

John M. Barry - The Great Influenza


So, when is Haskell County, Kansas, USA, going to fix the name of the disease? ("The Kansas Flu")?
Once again

Where else?

Quote
, you're spreading bad information.

I gave you a source. I would have asked for yours, but don't worry, I did for you the work you didn't.

True, there are theories that the Spanish Flu may have originated somewhere else. Wikipedia say so, so it must be true. John M. Barry himself designates Haskell County as "the end of the line" in terms of research - i.e. you can trace the pandemic to there and no further. This doesn't mean that Haskell was hit by an unknown carriers from elsewhere. However...
Quote
Haskell County is no longer considered a serious candidate for the origin of the 1918 flu

This is misinformation. Haskell County is still considered the origin off the Spanish Flu pandemic until proven otherwise. A chain of factual, demonstrable events leads there, and there the line stops. The rest are theories, and theories are not "proof".

Even if we "accept" them, the question would become: "Which one?" Virii do not appear all over the place, unless it is a bioterrorist attack. They have a precise source (and we should still be able to trace that source to Haskell County). Maybe one day a different point of origin for the Spanish Flu will be determined. Maybe this pandemic will further the studies on that one too. Until then, this is what we know.
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Eirikrautha

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #141 on: August 06, 2021, 10:40:25 AM »
H. Scott Apley, who according to the Galveston News was a member of the Galveston County Republican Party and Dickinson City council, was 45 years old. No listed pre-existing conditions.

On Facebook last week he posted:

“In 6 months, we’ve gone from the vax ending the pandemic, to you can still get Covid even if vaxxed, to you can pass Covid onto others even if vaxxed, to you can still die of Covid even if vaxxed, to the unvaxxed are killing the vaxxed,” the post read.

Apley was admitted to a Galveston hospital two days after that post with pneumonia-like symptoms, according to a GoFundMe page. He tested positive for COVID-19 and was placed on a ventilator.

He died around 3 a.m. Wednesday, according to the GoFundMe.

His wife and 5-month-old son also tested positive for the virus, KTRK reported.

This could be any of you guys here saying exactly the same kind of stuff this guy posted last week. And now he's dead.

Please, get your vaccines guys. Even if it's just the J&J Vaccine which uses more "normal" tech behind it, just get it.
He was morbidly obese.  He may have died from Covid, or he may have died with Covid.

Let me see if I understood this right... This guy was living his life before getting COVID and died after getting COVID?
And you accused Pat of living in a simplistic world?

There is the possibility that he was living his life with no health issues, he got Covid, the effects of Covid caused strain on his body's systems and he died of the results of having Covid.

There is the possibility that he was living his life with chronic or acute health issues, he went to the hospital and was tested for Covid (the news reports state he was not admitted for Covid and was only tested after he went to the hospital), and he died of whatever chronic or acute health issues he had, while carrying Covid in his system.

Provide your evidence for either.  You don't know (in fact, none except his family does).  But you are certainly quick to jump to one.

Pat
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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #142 on: August 06, 2021, 10:49:44 AM »
I see the current death rate for the Wuhan Covid

...And then there is this.

Do you know from where the so-called "Spanish Flu" actually came from?

"Epidemiological evidence suggests that a new influenza virus originated in Haskell County, Kansas, early in 1918. Evidence further suggests that this virus traveled east across the state to a huge army base, and from there to Europe. Later it began its sweep through North America, through Europe, through South America, through Asia and Africa, through isolated islands in the Pacific, through all the wide world."

John M. Barry - The Great Influenza


So, when is Haskell County, Kansas, USA, going to fix the name of the disease? ("The Kansas Flu")?
Once again

Where else?
I literally explained three other possible origin sites in the rest of my post. You chose to cut out everything except the first two words and play dumb, because you're dishonest.

Crosby's theory that it started in Haskell was disproven by Worobey, Cox, and Gill:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6381288/

A disproven theory is not the default.

This is misinformation. Haskell County is still considered the origin off the Spanish Flu pandemic until proven otherwise. A chain of factual, demonstrable events leads there, and there the line stops. The rest are theories, and theories are not "proof".
<face palm gif>

That's not what "theory" means.

Eirikrautha

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #143 on: August 06, 2021, 10:55:24 AM »
I'm not ever angry at our own government, because I understood that everyone was learning by trial. If anything, it was the fear of applying too draconian measures that allowed the pandemic to rage. Only when truly draconian measures were applied we were able to contain it.
Except that's false. The most dracocian measures haven't contained it.

Except that here they did. As I posted earlier, no one can cancel the death toll of the first wave in Italy  - but that death toll (along with the initial wave of cases) is exactly the yardstick that shows how, after the Italian government went against the virus with everything they had, the transmission index collapsed.
If everyone who could be infected was infected, the number of cases drops. The Italian government can't take credit for their failure.
You're wasting your breath.  Remember, this poster has high standards for sources, until he posts links to a local Jacksonville TV station to bash DeSantis (and we know TV news has no reason to bash DeSantis, now that he is becoming a political frontrunner).  Remember, the US botched Covid, but Italy had a higher CFR.  Remember, the US didn't know how to stop the virus (because you can't) and that's bad, but Italy didn't know either, and that's OK.  Seeing a pattern?

I'd almost suspect paid disinformation, since Reckall does the normal "throw as many points as possible in one post so that hopefully some slip through the cracks" that is common to that.  But, the whole Italian nationalism thing would be really weird for a paid disruptor (and who'd do that here, of all places, anyway?), so he's probably just well versed in the tactics (like, when you provided a solid explanation for most US deaths, re. nursing homes, he just calls it "simplistic", since he can't contradict it).  So, it's your breath to waste, but I don't get the feeling you are going to even get a fair hearing...

Trond

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #144 on: August 06, 2021, 11:09:00 AM »
I think this whole notion on the left, that they should demand everyone get a vaccine, just imploded:

Someone on the left just came up with the idea that demanding vaccines is racist. (see Ben Shapiro videos)

Reckall

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #145 on: August 06, 2021, 11:15:33 AM »
Since I am guessing you do not know much about employment in the US and OSHA, You probably do not know about the 'general duty clause' for OSHA.

First of all, I'm glad to get an answer based on a quote I had to pull out - if you get my meaning :D

True, I have no experience with employment in the USA. I can only look from afar.

From my vantage point, however, I see that OSHA and, I guess, a lot of other entities in the US, have to deal with a bizarre situation.

When it was the last time that someone protested against the mandatory used of helmets in specific work environments? Or of special facial protections? Or against regular maintenance and inspections? Or against specific rules that "limit your liberty" when it becomes an hazard? (I'm talking about "No Smoking near the Gas Pump", not about "In This Area Allow to Aliens to Kidnap You.")

Exactly.

From here we have the obvious, sane, next step.

All employers are legally required to take all possible steps to create a safe work environment.  Under OSHA, they are required to be proactive, including documenting any and all safety hazards associated with such.

However, just mention "masks" during a pandemic and things become incendiary. Vaccines are, literally, how "they" (who is seldom specified) will control you.

...And all of sudden OSHA has to deal with norms still related with work safety, but that, in this specific case, may cause a strong pushback. The needs are the same, but the rules all of sudden are different.

So, what do you do?

IMHO (this is my opinion and nothing else, I want for this to be clear) OSHA is trying to avoid potentially incendiary norms and even language while, still, actually, getting the same result. True...

OSHA is specifically telling companies that they will not be held to the general duty clause (The basis for all OSHA mandates) at this time, in this one particular instance...

...But you have the words right there. Helmets are fine, vaccines are special. OSHA however gives you both freedom to choose (and you know how the US are: FREEEEEEEDOM!!!! ::) ) and the link where you can report side effects of your vaccine. Your choice!

Now, tell me, how many suffering from side effects will not report them?

Is this perfect? I don't know. You know US bureaucracy better than me, so you will have a better answer. What I see is a way to preserve the need to know about vaccines' side effects while avoiding unneeded confrontations.
Quote
Unless you believe an actual US government bureaucracy is actively trying to reduce the amount of paperwork it requires (but only in this one critically important instance...you know...'the worst pandemic evuh').

This is not, of course, "the worst pandemic evuh". What I think, however, is that this is the first pandemic in history to hit a World convinced that "These things don't happen anymore!!!1 It is all a ploy of the #DeepState allied with #BillGates!!!"
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Reckall

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #146 on: August 06, 2021, 11:20:50 AM »
You're wasting your breath.  Remember, this poster has high standards for sources, until he posts links to a local Jacksonville TV station to bash DeSantis (and we know TV news has no reason to bash DeSantis, now that he is becoming a political frontrunner).  Remember, the US botched Covid, but Italy had a higher CFR.  Remember, the US didn't know how to stop the virus (because you can't) and that's bad, but Italy didn't know either, and that's OK.  Seeing a pattern?

Yup. That pontificating without posting links is easier. :D

Quote
I'd almost suspect paid disinformation, since Reckall does the normal "throw as many points as possible in one post so that hopefully some slip through the cracks" that is common to that.  But, the whole Italian nationalism thing would be really weird for a paid disruptor (and who'd do that here, of all places, anyway?), so he's probably just well versed in the tactics (like, when you provided a solid explanation for most US deaths, re. nursing homes, he just calls it "simplistic", since he can't contradict it).  So, it's your breath to waste, but I don't get the feeling you are going to even get a fair hearing...

Amazing: not a single thing you wrote is true. Why? Because I say so.
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GeekyBugle

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #147 on: August 06, 2021, 11:35:18 AM »

Quote
Are adverse reactions to the COVID-19 vaccine recordable on the OSHA recordkeeping log?

DOL and OSHA, as well as other federal agencies, are working diligently to encourage COVID-19 vaccinations. OSHA does not wish to have any appearance of discouraging workers from receiving COVID-19 vaccination, and also does not wish to disincentivize employers’ vaccination efforts. As a result, OSHA will not enforce 29 CFR 1904’s recording requirements to require any employers to record worker side effects from COVID-19 vaccination through May 2022. We will reevaluate the agency’s position at that time to determine the best course of action moving forward.

https://www.osha.gov/coronavirus/faqs


Amazing. The very first line in this link says:

Given the evolving nature of the pandemic, OSHA is in the process of reviewing and updating this document. These materials may no longer represent current OSHA recommendations and guidance.For the most up-to-date information, consult Protecting Workers Guidance.

Since I see that you got an "Evil Hat" attitude, I'll dig further for you.

Here is the link we are provided. You have to look here now:

https://www.osha.gov/coronavirus/safework

Point 9. While it confirms what you posted, here is the last line.

Individuals may choose to submit adverse reactions to the federal Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System.

And we are even openly given the link: https://vaers.hhs.gov/reportevent.html

You are not forced to stay silent at all. You want to report? You have our blessing.

And you get fries. I didn't.

The actual line is...
Quote
Note on recording adverse reactions to vaccines: DOL and OSHA, as well as other federal agencies, are working diligently to encourage COVID-19 vaccinations. OSHA does not want to give any suggestion of discouraging workers from receiving COVID-19 vaccination or to disincentivize employers' vaccination efforts. As a result, OSHA will not enforce 29 CFR 1904's recording requirements to require any employers to record worker side effects from COVID-19 vaccination through May 2022. OSHA will reevaluate the agency's position at that time to determine the best course of action moving forward. Individuals may choose to submit adverse reactions to the federal Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System.

Since I am guessing you do not know much about employment in the US and OSHA, You probably do not know about the 'general duty clause' for OSHA.  All employers are legally required to take all possible steps to create a safe work environment.  Under OSHA, they are required to be proactive, including documenting any and all safety hazards associated with such.  Under regular OSHA rules the employer is always in violation for failing to record any possible safety issues.  That is why there is an emphasized 'note' under that heading...OSHA is specifically telling companies that they will not be held to the general duty clause (The basis for all OSHA mandates) at this time, in this one particular instance...

In other words, OSHA has told companies that their core safety requirement is not going to be applied for the jab side effects...

Now why would they want the company to ignore their basic recording requirement in this case?...They still require it for businesses that mandate flu and other vaccines...

HR departments that mandate other vaccines already have all the paperwork and knowledge to fill it out.  The ones that don't are used to dealing with new regulations on a regular basis.  So this would be an almost perfect opportunity to build a real database of possible side effects and adverse reactions from the US worker population...yet OSHA explicitly removed it.

Unless you believe an actual US government bureaucracy is actively trying to reduce the amount of paperwork it requires (but only in this one critically important instance...you know...'the worst pandemic evuh').

I might have a possible explanation:

IF companies do the recording as normal it's on paper from entities that have no incentive in lying about.

BUT if they don't, then any and all claims by individuals can be dismissed and it makes it harder to connect the dots.

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Reckall

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #148 on: August 06, 2021, 12:16:22 PM »

I literally explained three other possible origin sites in the rest of my post. You chose to cut out everything except the first two words and play dumb, because you're dishonest.

Actually I didn't. But lets run with this ball for a while:

Quote
Crosby's theory that it started in Haskell was disproven by Worobey, Cox, and Gill:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6381288/

Finally, a link! Hooray. A link with a flaw right when it tackles Barry's conclusion for the first time:

"The significance of the incident, in Barry’s view, lies in its timing and location. These deaths in rural Kansas took place in an area only a few hundred miles from a US Army Camp where, a few weeks later, Barry reports, one of the first recorded outbreaks of the pandemic may be said to have occurred."

Barry doesn't say that. I happen to have his study right here. Let's see what he actually says:

"In the last week of February 1918, Dean Nilson, Ernest Elliot, John Bottom, and probably several others unnamed by the local paper traveled from Haskell, where “severe influenza” was raging, to Funston. They probably arrived between February 28 and March 2, and the camp hospital first began receiving soldiers with influenza on March 4. This timing precisely fits the incubation period of influenza."

Barry doesn't traces the spread of the virus "because it happened in a general area". He points out the arrival of at least three men, named, from Haskell to Funston, and how the timing of the first cases in Funston coincides with "the incubation period of influenza".

"Within three weeks eleven hundred troops at Funston were sick enough to require hospitalization. Only a trickle of people moved back and forth between Haskell and Funston, but a river of soldiers moved between Funston, other army bases, and France. Two weeks after the first case at Funston, on March 18, influenza surfaced at both Camps Forrest and Greenleaf in Georgia; 10 percent of the forces at both camps would report sick."

So, Barry traces the movement of people from an infected county to an Army base, how that Army base became infected with clockwork precision, and does furter tracing between that base and others places that, later, reported cases.

How far we are from the idea of "an area only a few hundred miles from a US Army Camp" and nothing else pimped in that study, hm?

Anyway, it was a long study, and it looks interesting, so I'll read it (I wonder how many else did the same).

Quote
That's not what "theory" means.

I'm listening.
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Kiero

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #149 on: August 06, 2021, 12:27:48 PM »
Oh dear, the "vaccines" don't actually do a thing for the Delta variant: https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-delta-infections-produce-similar-levels-of-virus-regardless-of-vaccination-status-suggests-early-analysis-12374244

Sly Views, but the fact that it's even being reported in the scum media says something. Almost as though the "vaccines" don't fucking work...
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