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Author Topic: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!  (Read 199110 times)

moonsweeper

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #105 on: August 05, 2021, 11:29:36 PM »
And considering how much money, power, and control is on the table...no way do I trust anything other than a straight interpretation.
I think precedent is more important. Is this how it's normally interpreted, or is this exceptional?

There might be something from the 2009 swine flu stuff.  That is the only time I know for sure that EUA was used during a prior pandemic.

side note:   a friend just reminded me that HCQ had an EUA at one point but it was then revoked...

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Ratman_tf

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Mistwell

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #107 on: August 06, 2021, 12:12:20 AM »
I figured hearing a guy who thinks like you about this topic just died of it while thinking it was all bullshit like you do. I figured empathy might kick in a little? Some questioning if maybe the J&J is not that scary?
Bullshit.  You couldn't care less about this guy.  The only reason you even know about him is that you think he proves some political point.  You have no idea how either Apley or Ratman "think" about this issue (especially since you are relying on news reports and social media for Apley's opinions).  The fact that you think this has anything to do with peoples' vaccine hesitancy shows you are clueless about how they think.  Honestly, this kind of post just proves you are moral navel-lint...

Dude, what possible political point would it prove? I have a kid. Of course I care about a dad who just died leaving behind a tiny baby. I want you guys to get vaccinate. I don't want to see this happen to you like it happened to this guy. And I LOOKED AT HIS POST to rely on what he said. I saw the post he made, directly. You can too. Go look.

Mistwell

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #108 on: August 06, 2021, 12:14:12 AM »
I love how you guys are diagnosing someone as "morbidly obese" from pictures from the chest up which just shows a bigger guy (who is tall as well). OK, I guess we have doctors posting on therpgsite now too. Jesus fuck, you guys are something sometimes. Anything to protect your world view. Can't be you're in danger - must find some excuse for why it could never be you.

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #109 on: August 06, 2021, 12:19:38 AM »
And considering how much money, power, and control is on the table...no way do I trust anything other than a straight interpretation.
I think precedent is more important. Is this how it's normally interpreted, or is this exceptional?

There might be something from the 2009 swine flu stuff.  That is the only time I know for sure that EUA was used during a prior pandemic.

side note:   a friend just reminded me that HCQ had an EUA at one point but it was then revoked...
There are probably legal interpretations in the planning material, as well.

Eirikrautha

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #110 on: August 06, 2021, 12:20:30 AM »
I figured hearing a guy who thinks like you about this topic just died of it while thinking it was all bullshit like you do. I figured empathy might kick in a little? Some questioning if maybe the J&J is not that scary?
Bullshit.  You couldn't care less about this guy.  The only reason you even know about him is that you think he proves some political point.  You have no idea how either Apley or Ratman "think" about this issue (especially since you are relying on news reports and social media for Apley's opinions).  The fact that you think this has anything to do with peoples' vaccine hesitancy shows you are clueless about how they think.  Honestly, this kind of post just proves you are moral navel-lint...

Dude, what possible political point would it prove? I have a kid. Of course I care about a dad who just died leaving behind a tiny baby. I want you guys to get vaccinate. I don't want to see this happen to you like it happened to this guy. And I LOOKED AT HIS POST to rely on what he said. I saw the post he made, directly. You can too. Go look.
You dolt, I've been vaccinated.  That doesn't mean I have any illusions as to the exaggerated effectiveness or the utility for healthy people.  If you believe that you can compare what I think to what Ratman thinks to what a person you've never even talked to based on a handful of social media posts, you are dumber than I thought.  As for your motives, we all know the truth.  How many stories have you posted about the literally millions of people who've gotten Covid but recovered?  Just the one about the "vax-denier" who died.  You are despicable.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2021, 12:43:43 AM by Eirikrautha »

Ratman_tf

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #111 on: August 06, 2021, 12:31:55 AM »
I love how you guys are diagnosing someone as "morbidly obese" from pictures from the chest up which just shows a bigger guy (who is tall as well). OK, I guess we have doctors posting on therpgsite now too. Jesus fuck, you guys are something sometimes. Anything to protect your world view. Can't be you're in danger - must find some excuse for why it could never be you.

Dude. He's fat.



It's this kind of screeching that causes me to question your motivations for posting the article.
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GeekyBugle

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #112 on: August 06, 2021, 12:56:22 AM »
I love how you guys are diagnosing someone as "morbidly obese" from pictures from the chest up which just shows a bigger guy (who is tall as well). OK, I guess we have doctors posting on therpgsite now too. Jesus fuck, you guys are something sometimes. Anything to protect your world view. Can't be you're in danger - must find some excuse for why it could never be you.

Dude. He's fat.



It's this kind of screeching that causes me to question your motivations for posting the article.

As an Ex-Fat Fuck that's really tall and used to look like the man in the photo (R.I.P.) I can confirm that's not a "Big Guy", that's a fat fuck, very likely morbidly obese, and probably with some other health condition due to being a fat fuck, which is why I choose to get thinner a long while back.
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Kiero

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #113 on: August 06, 2021, 05:45:52 AM »
It was never sold as a 100% cure. They accurately reported the percentage effectiveness against each strain as it arose and none of those were 100%.

Not even 1% efficacy. Utterly pointless and probably making infections worse if Israel's latest data is anything to go by. What a strange coincidence that all the places with the highest level of vaccination also have the highest levels of infection.

Please, get your vaccines guys. Even if it's just the J&J Vaccine which uses more "normal" tech behind it, just get it.

Fuck off, not a chance.

Somehow this "deadly" virus has failed to kill me, or leave any lasting impacts, twice. Might I not even notice it the next time?
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Reckall

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #114 on: August 06, 2021, 06:09:08 AM »
...In the time we are given, I guess. And COVID took the World by storm. Do you want to wait more? Fine. Let's consider this solution. We know for certain that unchecked COVID causes variants. While most virii lose power with every generational cycle, this is not the case with this one. As we are seeing, it's already the variants the cause of the resurging scare.
"Lose power"? These are viruses, not batteries. They don't work like that.

Then let's use $10 words: "As they go through generational cycles, most virii become less virulent, progressively mutating themselves into a less dangerous form."

Happier?

Quote
We also know that "long term effects" of vaccines is something being studied since vaccines were created. Two and half billions people being vaccinated in a six months span is an unprecedented sample. For every informational article that patently describes why these COVID vaccines are safe you find one article that just screams danger - while sadly lacking counterfactual data.
No, that just you in your bubble. There are real and severe side effects to the vaccines, and they're widely reported and documented on all credible medical websites. And running human experiments on 2.5 billion people doesn't miraculously cause time dilation. We don't know the long term side effects because it hasn't been long enough.

Why is this such a difficult concept to grasp?

You talk about "credible medical sites" without naming one or giving factual examples. I happened to get my info from them. Hold my hand and we will go through this together.

https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19-vaccine-wont-have-long-term-side-effects

History tells us that severe side effects are extremely rare, and if they do occur, they usually happen within the first two months.

COVID-19 vaccine technologies have been studied for years and used in other treatments without issue.

https://www.uab.edu/reporter/resources/be-healthy/item/9544-what-are-the-long-term-side-effects-of-covid-vaccines-3-things-to-know

In his nearly 30 years studying vaccines, UAB’s Paul Goepfert, M.D., director of the Alabama Vaccine Research Clinic, has never seen anything as effective as the three COVID-19 vaccines — from Pfizer, Moderna and Johnson & Johnson — available in the United States. “A 90% decrease in risk of infections and 94% effectiveness against hospitalization for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines is fantastic,” he said.

But what makes vaccine experts such as Goepfert confident that COVID vaccines are safe in the long-term? We all have seen billboards and TV infomercials from law firms seeking people harmed by diet drugs or acid-reflux medicines for class-action lawsuits. What makes Goepfert think that scientists won’t discover previously unsuspected problems caused by COVID vaccines in the years ahead?

There are several reasons.

Vaccines are eliminated quickly

Vaccine side effects show up within weeks if at all

Our COVID vaccine experience during the past six months

Vaccines, given in one- or two-shot doses, are very different from medicines that people take every day, potentially for years, Goepfert says. And decades of vaccine history — plus data from more than a billion people who have received COVID vaccines since December 2020 — both provide powerful proof that there is little chance that any new dangers will emerge from COVID vaccines.


Are there potential side effects to vaccines? Of course there are. COVID happens to have some side effects too. Let's see a comparison:

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/vaccine-side-effects-vs-covid-19-damage-theres-no-comparison

Experts say that the mild and rare side effects from COVID-19 vaccines are nowhere near as serious as the potential damage the disease itself can cause.

They say that the long-term consequences of COVID-19 can include increased risk of stroke, lung damage, Alzheimer’s disease, and Parkinson’s disease.

They add that there have been reports of rare cases of Bell’s palsy developing from COVID-19 vaccines but that the rate appears to be lower than that of the general population.

Which would you rather have: muscle fatigue or permanent lung damage?

Would you prefer mild, short-term inflammation around the heart or severe damage to that organ that could lead to heart failure?

Would you rather have moderate pain in your upper arm for a few days or increase the possibility of developing Parkinson’s disease or Alzheimer’s disease?

These are just a few examples of the stark contrast between the side effects of COVID-19 vaccines and developing the disease itself.

While the vaccines’ side effects are mild and short, the damage caused by COVID-19 can be long lasting and even fatal.

You disagree with these abstracts? Give me alternatives. Don't babble about "serious medical sites", give me the links. Only a request: please, avoid Breitbart news.
Quote
And in this situation the best you can think of is "No! Wait!" Seriously? If a tiger is about to jump you, you don't react until you have evaluated the impact of killing her on a dwindling species? Or if getting tiger blood on your clothes can, one day, give you AIDS? Really?
Covid-19.
19.
2019.
We're in the 8th month of 2021.
If tigers took 2 years to complete a jump, they'd starve in mid air.

COVID cases in the World as of today: 201,817,159
COVID deaths: 4,283,757

COVID cases in the US as of today: 36,301,744
COVID deaths in the US: 631,879

Daily cases as of today: 705,067

I don't see this tiger starving.

Quote
Nobody's avoiding your question. It's just there's so much gibberish and misinformation in your posts, that it's exhausting responding to everything, even when it's intelligible.

As you see, it can be done.
Quote
Cuomo, Whitmer, Newsom, Wolf, Murphy

I abstracted this from your answer to show how real grasping at straws works. These are Americans elected by Americans, so they are part of America's problems (you forgot people like DeSantis, BTW). They weren't elected by Chinese or Russians. And saying "They are not what real America is!" works like saying "My cancerous kidney is not me!" I.e. it will not work.
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Reckall

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #115 on: August 06, 2021, 06:11:40 AM »
Also, notice how the "indistinct future" is the last ditch refuge of noVaxxers: "I don't know if the vaccines will have unforeseen consequences..." I'll think about that bridge when (and if) I get to it. Right now I have to think about a very scary and clear present.

Maybe some of us who are questioning the experimental, EUA only, shots aren't very scared and question why some people are going out of their way to muddy the situation. 

- for example (in the US)....
scary new 'delta' variant, huge spike in cases, weekly death rates almost unchanged
no flu deaths last season, FDA pulls PCR test which can't discern between flu/covid,
'breakthrough' cases only counted if person with shot is actually hospitalized'...


And I'm still waiting for an answer to my basic question, a question I see being avoided everywhere I post it: 4% of World population, 25% of the dead by COVID. How could this happen?


- Last but not least, we have the usual, very basic factoid: These "Kung-flu" guys come from "the bestest country in the World in everythingest!!!!11", they still managed to have 25% of the World deaths with only 4% of the population, and they are still lecturing?? America, right now, is The Shining City On A Hill About What Not To Do During A Pandemic. Climb down from your high horse, fix your country, exercise some self-criticism and leave alone countries who did better than you.

And?

Once the virus reached the US, no matter if from Dr. Evil's Fortress or from a Color Out of Space, how did the US screw up so spectacularly?

But, as I wrote, I never get a direct answer to this question - here being only an example. What I get instead are lectures from these people about the best way to tackle it. ::)

Maybe because the US death total is around 14% of the total not 25%.... (and that is assuming China is telling the truth)
Maybe because we have had similar results to the EU meaning there hasn't been much difference on either side of the pond....

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#datatracker-home

By Apr, 25th 2020 the US had 25% of COVID deaths in the World. However, by Jan, 27th 2021 they had 25% of COVID cases (with 4% of the population) but only 20% of the daily deaths. So, in this you are right: my deaths number was inflated. My bad.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-global-cases-idUSKBN29W0L6

Still, the same question arises: how came that... ::)

Then, starting exactly from late January 2021, the vaccine roll-out started in earnest in the USA too. Are you telling me that it is working?

Quote
People might take you seriously if you dialed back the hyperbole and actually examined the questions some of us have raised about the pandemic, the shots, and why information is being suppressed.

Which ones and which information? Exactly.
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Reckall

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #116 on: August 06, 2021, 06:32:23 AM »
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

Deaths per 1M population:

USA #21
Italy #16

What did Italy do wrong that it had a 128163/4377188 = 2.9% CFR
compared to the US 631362/36190896 = 1.7% CFR?

Why is Italian medicine so incompetent?  What could they have done differently (like the US) to save more of their countrymen from dying from this terrible disease?

Italy was the first Western country to be hit hard by COVID. We, literally, had to improvise and learn on the fly while both people and medical personnel were dying like flies. I never hid what the situation in Northern Italy was in the darkest days of the pandemic.

Why do I think since back then that people like Spinachat are idiots?

Then we were able to live and learn, and started to put in places measures decried in other countries (looking out, one of the most amazing sights of this pandemic is how no one learned from us). The result?

Total cases/1m pop:

USA: 108,973 #17
FRA: 95,273 #27
UK: 87,624 #32
ITA: 72,513 #53

So, it would seem that we learned how to contain the COVID, while countries hit after us meet... unforeseen difficulties. Of course, nothing will ever delete the terrible death toll we had in Mar-Apr 2020. But we learned.
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Reckall

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #117 on: August 06, 2021, 06:41:43 AM »
I see the current death rate for the Wuhan Covid

...And then there is this.

Do you know from where the so-called "Spanish Flu" actually came from?

"Epidemiological evidence suggests that a new influenza virus originated in Haskell County, Kansas, early in 1918. Evidence further suggests that this virus traveled east across the state to a huge army base, and from there to Europe. Later it began its sweep through North America, through Europe, through South America, through Asia and Africa, through isolated islands in the Pacific, through all the wide world."

John M. Barry - The Great Influenza


So, when is Haskell County, Kansas, USA, going to fix the name of the disease? ("The Kansas Flu")?
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Kiero

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #118 on: August 06, 2021, 06:53:10 AM »
Epidemiological evidence suggests...

Otherwise known as bullshit, because that's what epidemiology is. Shit mathematics masquerading as "public health expertise".
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Ratman_tf

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #119 on: August 06, 2021, 06:58:40 AM »
...In the time we are given, I guess. And COVID took the World by storm. Do you want to wait more? Fine. Let's consider this solution. We know for certain that unchecked COVID causes variants. While most virii lose power with every generational cycle, this is not the case with this one. As we are seeing, it's already the variants the cause of the resurging scare.
"Lose power"? These are viruses, not batteries. They don't work like that.

Then let's use $10 words: "As they go through generational cycles, most virii become less virulent, progressively mutating themselves into a less dangerous form."

Happier?

Quote
We also know that "long term effects" of vaccines is something being studied since vaccines were created. Two and half billions people being vaccinated in a six months span is an unprecedented sample. For every informational article that patently describes why these COVID vaccines are safe you find one article that just screams danger - while sadly lacking counterfactual data.
No, that just you in your bubble. There are real and severe side effects to the vaccines, and they're widely reported and documented on all credible medical websites. And running human experiments on 2.5 billion people doesn't miraculously cause time dilation. We don't know the long term side effects because it hasn't been long enough.

Why is this such a difficult concept to grasp?

You talk about "credible medical sites" without naming one or giving factual examples. I happened to get my info from them. Hold my hand and we will go through this together.

https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19-vaccine-wont-have-long-term-side-effects

History tells us that severe side effects are extremely rare, and if they do occur, they usually happen within the first two months.

COVID-19 vaccine technologies have been studied for years and used in other treatments without issue.

https://www.uab.edu/reporter/resources/be-healthy/item/9544-what-are-the-long-term-side-effects-of-covid-vaccines-3-things-to-know

In his nearly 30 years studying vaccines, UAB’s Paul Goepfert, M.D., director of the Alabama Vaccine Research Clinic, has never seen anything as effective as the three COVID-19 vaccines — from Pfizer, Moderna and Johnson & Johnson — available in the United States. “A 90% decrease in risk of infections and 94% effectiveness against hospitalization for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines is fantastic,” he said.

But what makes vaccine experts such as Goepfert confident that COVID vaccines are safe in the long-term? We all have seen billboards and TV infomercials from law firms seeking people harmed by diet drugs or acid-reflux medicines for class-action lawsuits. What makes Goepfert think that scientists won’t discover previously unsuspected problems caused by COVID vaccines in the years ahead?

There are several reasons.

Vaccines are eliminated quickly

Vaccine side effects show up within weeks if at all

Our COVID vaccine experience during the past six months

Vaccines, given in one- or two-shot doses, are very different from medicines that people take every day, potentially for years, Goepfert says. And decades of vaccine history — plus data from more than a billion people who have received COVID vaccines since December 2020 — both provide powerful proof that there is little chance that any new dangers will emerge from COVID vaccines.


Talk is cheap. When the rubber hits the road, the government does not have confidence in the vaccine's safety.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/covid-vaccine-side-effects-compensation-lawsuit.html

Funny how they have insulated themselves from responsibility while obscuring the data.

Quote
Are adverse reactions to the COVID-19 vaccine recordable on the OSHA recordkeeping log?

DOL and OSHA, as well as other federal agencies, are working diligently to encourage COVID-19 vaccinations. OSHA does not wish to have any appearance of discouraging workers from receiving COVID-19 vaccination, and also does not wish to disincentivize employers’ vaccination efforts. As a result, OSHA will not enforce 29 CFR 1904’s recording requirements to require any employers to record worker side effects from COVID-19 vaccination through May 2022. We will reevaluate the agency’s position at that time to determine the best course of action moving forward.

https://www.osha.gov/coronavirus/faqs

But hey, I hear you can get free fries if you take the jab.

https://www.shakeshack.com/2021/05/19/get-vaxed-get-shack/
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