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Author Topic: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!  (Read 16133 times)

FelixGamingX1

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #645 on: September 15, 2021, 07:06:47 AM »
Just take the needle, let me know how it goes.

No thanks.

They’ll make it impossible not to. (Not like we didn’t see this coming)
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oggsmash

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #646 on: September 15, 2021, 07:33:58 AM »
I think directly flouting the only real power they have is a lot more of a threat to the Supreme Court than requiring them to abide by work standards that are being applied universally across the entire country.

You mean universally except for the people not required to abide by the universal work standards applied to companies of more then 100 people?

Thats not really universal is it.

Quote
And the the idea that people just assume they should be exempt deeply troubles me, because it shows how deep the belief that a different set of rules should apply to the ruling class runs.

I dont think that people assume that they should be exempt because they are a "ruling class", rather that they remember the checks and balances built in to your system.
Does Congress have more than 100 people?

The 100+ rule is universal, except for....

It's not checks and balances. It's the assumption that the rules shouldn't apply to Congress. This isn't comparable to the protection from prosecution for anything Congressdemons say on the floor, which is at least justifiable.

I didnt realise that Congress was the only business in the universe of the US of A.

  It isnt, it just happens to be the most profitable for its members.

Kiero

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #647 on: September 15, 2021, 10:11:08 AM »
They’ll make it impossible not to. (Not like we didn’t see this coming)

How?

That's not the case in the UK, where all their bullshit mandates to date featured easily-claimed exemptions so they wouldn't be thrown out by the first court challenge.
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Pat

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #648 on: September 15, 2021, 10:26:27 AM »
Back before the ACLU turned against liberty:
https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/privacy/pemic_report.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1BSdVmEdg7mQSToww5aosRLGrufJKUDpuWP3_Q_gUnjPCE18iBJBE2aBM

Quote from: Pandemic Preparedness (2008)
Conflating Public Health with National Security and Law Enforcement

Rather than focusing on well-established measures for protecting the lives and health of Americans, policymakers have recently embraced an approach that views public health policy through the prism of national security and law enforcement.  This model assumes that we must “trade liberty for security.”  As a result, instead of helping individuals and communities through education and provision of health care, today’s pandemic prevention focuses on taking aggressive, coercive actions against those who are sick.  People, rather than the disease, become the enemy.

Lessons from History

American history contains vivid reminders that grafting the values of law enforcement and national security onto public health is both ineffective and dangerous.  Too often, fears aroused by disease and epidemics have justified abuses of state power. Highly discriminatory and forcible vaccination and quarantine measures adopted in response to outbreaks of the plague and smallpox over the past century have consistently accelerated rather than slowed the spread of disease, while fomenting public distrust and, in some cases, riots.

The lessons from history should be kept in mind whenever we are told by government officials that “tough,” liberty-limiting actions are needed to protect us from dangerous diseases.  Specifically:
• Coercion and brute force are rarely necessary.  In fact they are generally counterproductive—they gratuitously breed public distrust and encourage the people who are most in need of care to evade public health authorities.
• On the other hand, effective, preventive strategies that rely on voluntary participation do work.  Simply put, people do not want to contract smallpox, influenza or other dangerous diseases.  They want positive government help in avoiding and treating disease.  As long as public officials are working to help people rather than to punish them, people are likely to engage willingly in any and all efforts to keep their families and communities healthy.
• Minorities and other socially disadvantaged populations tend to bear the brunt of tough public health measures. 

What's ironic is what they were protesting falls short of what's already happened.

I'm surprised they haven't scrubbed that document yet.
I find the historical approach of the document very interesting. It supports one of the arguments I've been making -- that public health has failed badly in response to the novel coronavirus pandemic, and the biggest reason is because they destroyed their most essential resource, public trust. They've been lying to us, and while it's supposedly for our own good (like Fauci lying about masks to preserve them for healthcare workers), that just means people have stopped believing anything they say. The ACLU document points out that the mere fact that they're using coercive methods is increasing distrust and encouraging people to evade the restrictions. The core problem isn't politicization, or that people have rejected science, or that we haven't imposed enough dictates. No, the real problem is the mandates. When you try to force people to do something, they resist. That's just natural human behavior. It might have turned out very differently if public health and the politicians backing them decided to trust the public, were scrupulously honest and open about what they knew and didn't know, and completely rejected involuntary coercion and instead tried to sway the public by appealing to their reason and self-interest. It would have increased complaisance instead of compliance, and might have even helped unite the country.

KingCheops

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #649 on: September 15, 2021, 10:31:39 AM »
Imprison those who abuse drugs.
Imprison those who abuse alcohol.
Imprison those who smoke.
Imprison those who eat too much fast food.
Imprison those who have genetic infirmities.
Imprison those who have mental infirmities.
Imprison those who have the wrong opinion.

Welcome to the dystopian future my friends.

Pat

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #650 on: September 15, 2021, 10:36:32 AM »
Prison is the Orwellian approach. Cancel culture and social credit scores are more Huxleyian, but in many ways the soft approaches are even more terrible because they provide cover and comfort to the totalitarians and their apologists.

deadDMwalking

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #651 on: September 15, 2021, 03:08:37 PM »
Imprison those who abuse drugs.
Drug Possession has been enough to land you in jail for years in most states for a generation.  Only now are those laws being relaxed.

Imprison those who abuse alcohol.
If you do anything while intoxicated (normal behavior for someone who abuses alcohol) you're likely to end up in jail.  A DUI can put you in jail for 30 days in most states, and up to a year in several. 


Welcome to the dystopian future my friends.

Welcome to the Dystopian past. 
When I say objectively, I mean 'subjectively'.  When I say literally, I mean 'figuratively'.  
And when I say that you are a horse's ass, I mean that the objective truth is that you are a literal horse's ass.

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Ratman_tf

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #652 on: September 15, 2021, 03:41:07 PM »
Back before the ACLU turned against liberty:
https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/privacy/pemic_report.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1BSdVmEdg7mQSToww5aosRLGrufJKUDpuWP3_Q_gUnjPCE18iBJBE2aBM

Quote from: Pandemic Preparedness (2008)
Conflating Public Health with National Security and Law Enforcement

Rather than focusing on well-established measures for protecting the lives and health of Americans, policymakers have recently embraced an approach that views public health policy through the prism of national security and law enforcement.  This model assumes that we must “trade liberty for security.”  As a result, instead of helping individuals and communities through education and provision of health care, today’s pandemic prevention focuses on taking aggressive, coercive actions against those who are sick.  People, rather than the disease, become the enemy.

Lessons from History

American history contains vivid reminders that grafting the values of law enforcement and national security onto public health is both ineffective and dangerous.  Too often, fears aroused by disease and epidemics have justified abuses of state power. Highly discriminatory and forcible vaccination and quarantine measures adopted in response to outbreaks of the plague and smallpox over the past century have consistently accelerated rather than slowed the spread of disease, while fomenting public distrust and, in some cases, riots.

The lessons from history should be kept in mind whenever we are told by government officials that “tough,” liberty-limiting actions are needed to protect us from dangerous diseases.  Specifically:
• Coercion and brute force are rarely necessary.  In fact they are generally counterproductive—they gratuitously breed public distrust and encourage the people who are most in need of care to evade public health authorities.
• On the other hand, effective, preventive strategies that rely on voluntary participation do work.  Simply put, people do not want to contract smallpox, influenza or other dangerous diseases.  They want positive government help in avoiding and treating disease.  As long as public officials are working to help people rather than to punish them, people are likely to engage willingly in any and all efforts to keep their families and communities healthy.
• Minorities and other socially disadvantaged populations tend to bear the brunt of tough public health measures. 

What's ironic is what they were protesting falls short of what's already happened.

I'm surprised they haven't scrubbed that document yet.
I find the historical approach of the document very interesting. It supports one of the arguments I've been making -- that public health has failed badly in response to the novel coronavirus pandemic, and the biggest reason is because they destroyed their most essential resource, public trust. They've been lying to us, and while it's supposedly for our own good (like Fauci lying about masks to preserve them for healthcare workers), that just means people have stopped believing anything they say. The ACLU document points out that the mere fact that they're using coercive methods is increasing distrust and encouraging people to evade the restrictions. The core problem isn't politicization, or that people have rejected science, or that we haven't imposed enough dictates. No, the real problem is the mandates. When you try to force people to do something, they resist. That's just natural human behavior. It might have turned out very differently if public health and the politicians backing them decided to trust the public, were scrupulously honest and open about what they knew and didn't know, and completely rejected involuntary coercion and instead tried to sway the public by appealing to their reason and self-interest. It would have increased complaisance instead of compliance, and might have even helped unite the country.

I'm totally with you, there.
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Mistwell

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #653 on: September 15, 2021, 06:08:58 PM »
Imprison those who abuse drugs.
Imprison those who abuse alcohol.

LOL. No, sorry, you lose. These first two are the OPPOSITE of what the SJW left is doing. They're constantly releasing drug and alcohol abusers back to the public, reducing penalties, reducing charges, and doing everything they can to NOT imprison people. You cannot pretend they're trying to imprison druggies, come on man, you know that's not the case.

Same for much of the rest of your list. Mental Infirmities? It's the left preventing that from happening. 

oggsmash

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #654 on: September 15, 2021, 06:17:00 PM »
Imprison those who abuse drugs.
Imprison those who abuse alcohol.

LOL. No, sorry, you lose. These first two are the OPPOSITE of what the SJW left is doing. They're constantly releasing drug and alcohol abusers back to the public, reducing penalties, reducing charges, and doing everything they can to NOT imprison people. You cannot pretend they're trying to imprison druggies, come on man, you know that's not the case.

Same for much of the rest of your list. Mental Infirmities? It's the left preventing that from happening.

  I didnt get the vibe he was talking about what the SJW left wants.  I got the vibe he was talking about what our new overlords want once we all agree to doing all the things that "are for our best interests" as in going along with totalitarian measures on a *few* things almost always ends up going with totalitarian measures on *all* things.  At that point, you can call your overlords, right, left or center, but they will for certain be your overlords.   

   Now if he did mean SJW lefties I agree with you.  But he did not say that, and seemed to imply massive nanny state. 

Mistwell

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #655 on: September 15, 2021, 07:03:13 PM »
Imprison those who abuse drugs.
Imprison those who abuse alcohol.

LOL. No, sorry, you lose. These first two are the OPPOSITE of what the SJW left is doing. They're constantly releasing drug and alcohol abusers back to the public, reducing penalties, reducing charges, and doing everything they can to NOT imprison people. You cannot pretend they're trying to imprison druggies, come on man, you know that's not the case.

Same for much of the rest of your list. Mental Infirmities? It's the left preventing that from happening.



  I didnt get the vibe he was talking about what the SJW left wants.  I got the vibe he was talking about what our new overlords want once we all agree to doing all the things that "are for our best interests" as in going along with totalitarian measures on a *few* things almost always ends up going with totalitarian measures on *all* things.  At that point, you can call your overlords, right, left or center, but they will for certain be your overlords.   

   Now if he did mean SJW lefties I agree with you.  But he did not say that, and seemed to imply massive nanny state.

OK then who is "they" is this?

oggsmash

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #656 on: September 15, 2021, 08:07:11 PM »
Imprison those who abuse drugs.
Imprison those who abuse alcohol.

LOL. No, sorry, you lose. These first two are the OPPOSITE of what the SJW left is doing. They're constantly releasing drug and alcohol abusers back to the public, reducing penalties, reducing charges, and doing everything they can to NOT imprison people. You cannot pretend they're trying to imprison druggies, come on man, you know that's not the case.

Same for much of the rest of your list. Mental Infirmities? It's the left preventing that from happening.



  I didnt get the vibe he was talking about what the SJW left wants.  I got the vibe he was talking about what our new overlords want once we all agree to doing all the things that "are for our best interests" as in going along with totalitarian measures on a *few* things almost always ends up going with totalitarian measures on *all* things.  At that point, you can call your overlords, right, left or center, but they will for certain be your overlords.   

   Now if he did mean SJW lefties I agree with you.  But he did not say that, and seemed to imply massive nanny state.

OK then who is "they" is this?

  I suspect anyone who is of the political class.  But I do not know, whoever ends up as overlord once a state goes totalitarian.

KingCheops

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #657 on: September 16, 2021, 10:27:56 AM »
Imprison those who abuse drugs.
Imprison those who abuse alcohol.

LOL. No, sorry, you lose. These first two are the OPPOSITE of what the SJW left is doing. They're constantly releasing drug and alcohol abusers back to the public, reducing penalties, reducing charges, and doing everything they can to NOT imprison people. You cannot pretend they're trying to imprison druggies, come on man, you know that's not the case.

Same for much of the rest of your list. Mental Infirmities? It's the left preventing that from happening.

  I didnt get the vibe he was talking about what the SJW left wants.  I got the vibe he was talking about what our new overlords want once we all agree to doing all the things that "are for our best interests" as in going along with totalitarian measures on a *few* things almost always ends up going with totalitarian measures on *all* things.  At that point, you can call your overlords, right, left or center, but they will for certain be your overlords.   

   Now if he did mean SJW lefties I agree with you.  But he did not say that, and seemed to imply massive nanny state.

I mean SJW lefties are the useful idiots of the Corporate Fascists trying to take over the world.  So yes?

But yeah I'm more saying this is the path we're going down with our overlords and people are just going along like sheep.  I feel like that one grumpy guy not saluting in that Nazi rally photo.