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Author Topic: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!  (Read 22049 times)

Shasarak

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #555 on: August 25, 2021, 08:30:51 PM »
Sorry, but it's simply dishonest to pretend like the various different measures & strategies aren't intended to coerce people into taking injections against their own judgment. They absolutely are.

Persuade yes. I think we can debate if it's "coercion" but it's surely not "forced" and that's the allegation being made.
Coercion is force. It's the literal definition of the word.

And once it becomes a government mandate, force involves the threat of physical violence, because government mandates are enforced by people with guns. Try not paying taxes, then refusing to show up at all the proceedings, and then say no thank you when they come to pick you up, and see what happens. That it's buried behind bureaucracy and the expectation of submission doesn't change that it's compliance under the threat of deadly force.

There you go again Pat using your weasel words like "deadly force"

We all know that when the police rock up to arrest you then you just say "Swiper, no swiping" and then they go away.
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Ratman_tf

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #556 on: August 25, 2021, 08:41:57 PM »
Yeah, rules and laws that prohibit me from putting other people in potential danger (like smoking in bars) infringe on my rights.

Why didn't we protest those laws again?

People did.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=117545&page=1
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dkabq

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #557 on: August 25, 2021, 08:54:22 PM »
Actually, losing my job would most likely cause me to have to give my house to the bank. So while it's not an equal outcome (burned-down vs. bank owned), both result in me losing my house.

Bull-fucking-shit.

Right now if you go unemployed you not only get normal unemployment but they still have super-unemployment in place. In addition they have mortgage deferment in place for the unemployed. We also have a record number of job openings right now and inflation in wages happening. So I'd love to know what your skills are which are so poor you couldn't find an equivalent paying job but so good that it's not a low paying job you're in, in the first place. Naw, this is a heaping mound of bullshit. You wouldn't let some SJW get away with that kind of claim if they made it about being fired for having pink hair. Why did you think you'd get away with it for yourself?

Quote
That said, I do agree with you regarding not being entitled to a job. In fact, a previous president of the company I work for flatly told a questioner at an all-hands meeting, "You don't have to work here", in response to a complaint about the latest round of benefits reduction. That's why I always tell my younger colleagues to keep their options open so that they can bail to a better compensated job.

As for me, what I do can literally only be done where I currently work. And as I am in the twilight of my career, there are scant options for jumping to a new career at the level of compensation necessary to keep my house. So I play small and avoid the turbo lasers. Doesn't mean that I have to like it. But in the end it is better than many other alternatives.

You are almost certainly selling yourself short. Sure, your specific current job duties are tailored to your current job. But there are sooooooo many good job openings right now for responsible people with a good track record of not leaving their prior jobs after a year that you almost certainly could not only find other work, but other work which pays better than your current job. You should take your own advice - look around.

Think what you like. I do nuclear risk and safety work. It's a very specialized (and limited, in terms of locations and companies) field. And what I am currently doing is *literally* is only done where I work. Moreover, at my age and compensation, there pretty much has to be a direct need for your specific skill set to land another comparable job. Nobody is going to pay you to spend time to come up to speed. Plus, I have a pension, so I have to factor losing further accrual into any job change.

Not that I haven't looked. I had my fingers crossed for potential 5-year gig in Tokyo supporting Fire PRA work related to the post-Fukushima reactor restarts, but it never materialized (I would have given up pension accrual for that job). I also interviewed with an advanced reactor start-up, but they decided that they didn't need any additional beyond design-basis/severe accident support at the time.

Conversely, I have a colleague who is early career (<5 years), with no wife/girlfriend and living in an apartment. Between his talent and his connections, he could easily get another job (maybe even in a non-nuclear field) and move. I was like that back in the day, but with a wife, and less talent and connections. Now I am shackled by golden handcuffs (a very first-world problem).

As for unemployment + super-unemployment, it would not be sufficient for me to keep my house (even with the bank getting screwed out of my mortgage payment, I still have to pay those property taxes). Which I am *super* grateful for, given that in all of the other timelines I am living in my mother's basement and working a low-paying, dead-end job, and not have nearly so much to lose.

Regards.



« Last Edit: August 25, 2021, 08:59:09 PM by dkabq »

Zelen

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #558 on: August 25, 2021, 11:33:29 PM »
Wow. More completely bullshit. Natural immunity is lasting a SHORTER AMOUNT OF TIME THAN THE TWO MAIN VACCINES. I don't know where you heard different, but antibody count declines in those with natural immunity faster than with the second dose of the two main vaccines. People can and are getting covid a second time without the vaccine at fairly high rates right now. Natural immunity appears to last 6 months or less.

Where are you getting this information? This does not align with data that I have seen on the subject matter.

Ref: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1.full.pdf

Quote
SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees had a 13.06-fold (95% CI, 8.08 to 21.11) increased risk
for breakthrough infection with the Delta variant compared to those previously
infected, when the first event (infection or vaccination) occurred during January and
February of 2021. The increased risk was significant (P<0.001) for symptomatic
disease as well. When allowing the infection to occur at any time before vaccination
(from March 2020 to February 2021), evidence of waning natural immunity was
demonstrated, though SARS-CoV-2 naïve vaccinees had a 5.96-fold (95% CI, 4.85 to
7.33) increased risk for breakthrough infection and a 7.13-fold (95% CI, 5.51 to 9.21)
increased risk for symptomatic disease. SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees were also at a
greater risk for COVID-19-related-hospitalizations compared to those that were
previously infected

There's a number of papers demonstrating natural immunity provides better protection than receiving an injection. Previous study from Israel quantified it at 6.7x better protection from infection. Also, data from the UK demonstrates that infection with SarsCov-2 occurs in 0.7% of those who have previously been infected, but 15% in those who have received an injection.

Kiero

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #559 on: August 26, 2021, 07:43:13 AM »
Mistwell is a smug cunt lawyer who thinks he's smarter than everyone else (goes with the territory), so he's probably pulled that "natural immunity doesn't last" bollocks out of his arse.
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oggsmash

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #560 on: August 26, 2021, 07:47:08 AM »
LOL at suprplus job openings.  If you flip burgers at macdonalds, or work a cash register.   Those are also the only jobs "super unemployment" is a better deal for.  A little too much time with the wine and cheese crowd creates that sort of world view I guess.

Ghostmaker

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #561 on: August 26, 2021, 09:15:55 AM »
Sorry, but it's simply dishonest to pretend like the various different measures & strategies aren't intended to coerce people into taking injections against their own judgment. They absolutely are.

Persuade yes. I think we can debate if it's "coercion" but it's surely not "forced" and that's the allegation being made.
Coercion is force. It's the literal definition of the word.

And once it becomes a government mandate, force involves the threat of physical violence, because government mandates are enforced by people with guns. Try not paying taxes, then refusing to show up at all the proceedings, and then say no thank you when they come to pick you up, and see what happens. That it's buried behind bureaucracy and the expectation of submission doesn't change that it's compliance under the threat of deadly force.
Thank you, Pat. You beat me to it.

I am completely stunned, to be honest, that Misty's taking this angle that coercion and pressure aren't force. What the fuck.


Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #562 on: August 26, 2021, 09:59:28 AM »
I am completely stunned, to be honest, that Misty's taking this angle that coercion and pressure aren't force. What the fuck.

Most people have problems linking the long-term consequences of their actions. So when the use of force is obscured behind layers of other actors and buerocracy it doesn't FEEL like force anymore.

This is why democracy is so fetishized instead of viewed as the least bad option (but still bad).

oggsmash

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #563 on: August 26, 2021, 11:26:31 AM »
  I find it interesting I saw a clip of the Phizer CEO saying he would not get the shot, since he is 59 and in good health.  I think that says all that needs to be said.

Pat

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #564 on: August 26, 2021, 11:27:39 AM »
Mistwell is a smug cunt lawyer who thinks he's smarter than everyone else (goes with the territory), so he's probably pulled that "natural immunity doesn't last" bollocks out of his arse.
No, Mistwell isn't making something up. I've heard similar from major news organizations. For instance, I was listening to NPR last week, and they had on two doctors to answer questions about covid. Someone called in, asking whether they should get a jab, even though they already had covid. The doctors clearly stated that natural immunity wasn't all it was cracked up to be, and that the jab provided a higher level of protection, so of course the caller should get vaccinated. Neither doctor provided a source or even clear reasoning on this matter. The response mostly boiled down to a wordy "trust me, I'm an expert". So while the literature seems to be overwhelmingly in favor of the idea that natural immunity provides a higher level of protection than the various vaccines, there must be a counter example somewhere.

And it's also partially correct that natural immunity doesn't last. Antibodies developed in response to an infection do diminish over time, and eventually vanish. But it's also partially false, because your body retains the memory of how to create those antibodies, in T-cells. Antibodies are the first line of defense, and creating new ones isn't immediate, so it is possible for a new infection to overwhelm the body's defenses before the T-cells can create enough antibodies. This is primarily going to be an issue when someone was exposed to a high viral load, rather than casual contact, meaning it's more of a concern for people like healthcare works in a covid ward than the general public. But it's misleading, because it's not a unique characteristic of natural immunity. The protection provided by vaccines also diminishes over time, hence all the current talk about boosters. In fact, that seems to be one of the major reasons why the vaccines don't seem to be as effective as initially claimed: Even ignoring the relative/absolute confusion, the effectiveness was based on very recent jabs, when the protection was highest.

Snowman0147

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #565 on: August 26, 2021, 01:18:55 PM »
Mistwell is a smug cunt lawyer who thinks he's smarter than everyone else (goes with the territory), so he's probably pulled that "natural immunity doesn't last" bollocks out of his arse.

I especially hate how he lied about my reasons to ban his sorry ass.

Mistwell: "You want me banned for my desenting opinion.  Sniff...  Sniff.."

No Mistwell I want you ban because you did FAR MORE than just give a opinion.  Your lying through your teeth, your falsely accusing people of things they didn't do, your insulting people's intelligence, and to be honest your being a shit human being Mistwell. 

The site can only improve with you gone.

deadDMwalking

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #566 on: August 26, 2021, 01:50:00 PM »
No Mistwell I want you ban because you did FAR MORE than just give a opinion. 

Banning - the first tool of the fascists.  Of course, it means that you're promoting cancel culture.  You could just...address the lies.

Anyway, back on topic, my mind was just blown.

Apparently - and I am not making this us - the same people who won't get a vaccine in part because it isn't approved are taking horse de-worming medication to combat COVID.  While that already seems crazy, they're demanding that legislators get it approved for use in people to make getting it easier - you know, even though it hasn't been tested in people for these purposes. 
When I say objectively, I mean 'subjectively'.  When I say literally, I mean 'figuratively'.  
And when I say that you are a horse's ass, I mean that the objective truth is that you are a literal horse's ass.

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jhkim

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #567 on: August 26, 2021, 01:58:49 PM »
  I find it interesting I saw a clip of the Phizer CEO saying he would not get the shot, since he is 59 and in good health.  I think that says all that needs to be said.

The CEO of Pfizer is Albert Bourla, who got his second shot back in March 2021.

https://www.pfizer.com/people/leadership/executives

https://twitter.com/albertbourla/status/1369734954498818052?lang=en

I think you might be referring to the December 2020 CNBC interview where he said that he wasn't going to "cut the line" to get his shot ahead of other people because he was in good health, but that was a matter of prioritizing the people who should receive the shot first.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6O6FqYYImk

Pat

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #568 on: August 26, 2021, 02:00:59 PM »
Apparently - and I am not making this us - the same people who won't get a vaccine in part because it isn't approved are taking horse de-worming medication to combat COVID.  While that already seems crazy, they're demanding that legislators get it approved for use in people to make getting it easier - you know, even though it hasn't been tested in people for these purposes.
Ivermectin is approved. Not for this purpose, but once a drug has be approved and declared safe, doctors can prescribe it for alternate uses. That's perfectly legit.

The problem with horse ivermectin is impurities and that it's not designed for human consumption. No doctor will prescribe it, so the people who are using it are the same people who buy fish antibiotics instead of going to urgent care and getting a prescription. It's popular among survivalists, for instance. This is nothing new, it's been part of that subculture for a long time.

Ratman_tf

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #569 on: August 26, 2021, 02:58:18 PM »
No Mistwell I want you ban because you did FAR MORE than just give a opinion. 

Banning - the first tool of the fascists.  Of course, it means that you're promoting cancel culture.  You could just...address the lies.

Anyway, back on topic, my mind was just blown.

Apparently - and I am not making this us - the same people who won't get a vaccine in part because it isn't approved are taking horse de-worming medication to combat COVID.  While that already seems crazy, they're demanding that legislators get it approved for use in people to make getting it easier - you know, even though it hasn't been tested in people for these purposes.

Hell, man, and I too am not making this up, Austrailians are executing puppies and service dogs in order to discourage people from breaking lockdown to care for them. Crazy fucking stuff out there.
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