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Author Topic: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!  (Read 21808 times)

Ghostmaker

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #45 on: August 04, 2021, 10:03:59 PM »
Residents in San Diego, California (nominally still part of the USA) happily sign a petition to IMPRISON anyone who refuses the Chyna Virus jab.

Hahahah that's not going to happen! What's probably going to happen is something similar to that Obama Care rule, if you can afford health insurance and chooses not to, than you'd be paying a little extra on your taxes. Giving these tweets the benefit of a doubt only feeds the paranoid and increases the divide. We got enough misinformation as it is, and that's just silly.
You know the mandate got overturned, right?

The breadth and depth of the topics for which you're completely full of shit knows no bounds.

No, it did not.
The mandate penalty is now zero, and has been since 2019.

*shrugs*

You'll have to find some other way to get your tyranny fix.

Reckall

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #46 on: August 05, 2021, 05:12:27 AM »
I have a question for you. What should be done if it does turn out that there are serious, long term health issues with the vaccinations?

Tweak the next batch of vaccines. Which still sucks for those vaccinated with the first one. This question, however, ignores a lots of context:

- The vaccines used first had to go through approval. Not everyone of them was accepted. The Russian and Chinese ones aren't accepted by both the EMA and the FDA, for example (the FDA has the list of vaccines authorised "for emergency use" on their front page; the EMA calls this list "safe vaccines"). What does "approval" means? What are the procedures? I do know them. I wonder how many others do.

- Maybe the vaccines will sux. The alternative is COVID (I sometimes wonder why the anti-Vaxxers who consider vaccines more dangerous that "this trivial flu" don't just get a shot of COVID and shut up).

- Seldom, in the tirades against the vaccines, I see "And now let's see what is the alternative - the risk of getting COVID - before making a choice." When this is done, COVID is usually trivialized. I use the work "usually" because this is not the case in Northern Italy. After Bergamo, no one trivializes COVID over here.

- Having COVID out there like wildfire helps the appearance of variants. When that imbecile of Governor DeSantis opened up Florida while the pandemic was on afterburner he didn't simply create a superspreader event: some of the first variants were seen there. It is the variants, Delta in primis, that are causing the current scare, not the original COVID.

- Re: "The Danmask Study", of course many grabbed it as the Lost Tablets from Moses - without looking further for independent analysis.

https://rebelem.com/the-danmask-19-trial-masks-not-effective-to-prevent-covid-19-not-so-fast/

"Clinical Take Home Point: This trial does not answer the question of “do masks reduce transmission of SARS-CoV-2 infection.” While this is what the researchers sought to study, what they actually studied is the compliance rate with a recommendation to wear masks which was low in this cohort.  In a population that predominantly does not wear masks, this trial does not give us information on masks effects with more widespread mask wearing in the community. Additionally, with no clarity on how other public health measures were upheld and whether masks were worn correctly, there are too many confounders that limit the results of this trial. Until better evidence is available, wearing a mask is simple, has minimal harm, and should be recommended at this time.

This is one example. Other independent analysis reached the same conclusion. "Research" should never end once you find someone that agrees with you.

- Last but not least, we have the usual, very basic factoid: These "Kung-flu" guys come from "the bestest country in the World in everythingest!!!!11", they still managed to have 25% of the World deaths with only 4% of the population, and they are still lecturing?? America, right now, is The Shining City On A Hill About What Not To Do During A Pandemic. Climb down from your high horse, fix your country, exercise some self-criticism and leave alone countries who did better than you.
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Ratman_tf

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #47 on: August 05, 2021, 05:30:37 AM »
I have a question for you. What should be done if it does turn out that there are serious, long term health issues with the vaccinations?

Tweak the next batch of vaccines. Which still sucks for those vaccinated with the first one. This question, however, ignores a lots of context:

- The vaccines used first had to go through approval. Not everyone of them was accepted. The Russian and Chinese ones aren't accepted by both the EMA and the FDA, for example (the FDA has the list of vaccines authorised "for emergency use" on their front page; the EMA calls this list "safe vaccines"). What does "approval" means? What are the procedures? I do know them. I wonder how many others do.

- Maybe the vaccines will sux. The alternative is COVID (I sometimes wonder why the anti-Vaxxers who consider vaccines more dangerous that "this trivial flu" don't just get a shot of COVID and shut up).

There are a lot of silly takes regarding Covid. There are people wearing masks with flaps that open up so they can eat while "masking".
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-52728998

Personally, I wouldn't want a shot of flu in any case. Flu sucks. And I don't know how dangerous Covid is compared to the vaccinations. We only have a few months of data, and those data are incomplete by design.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2021, 05:32:19 AM by Ratman_tf »
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Reckall

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #48 on: August 05, 2021, 06:23:35 AM »
There are a lot of silly takes regarding Covid. There are people wearing masks with flaps that open up so they can eat while "masking".
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-52728998

Personally, I wouldn't want a shot of flu in any case. Flu sucks. And I don't know how dangerous Covid is compared to the vaccinations. We only have a few months of data, and those data are incomplete by design.

How many people died or are suffering from high-morbidity long term damage after COVID compared to how many people died or are suffering from high-morbidity long term damage from vaccines? It is that simple.

Maybe I'll have two headed kids. For sure the vaccine gave me two days of fever. COVID can give me from long-term to permanent organ damage:

From Mayo Clinic:

"Although COVID-19 is seen as a disease that primarily affects the lungs, it can damage many other organs as well. This organ damage may increase the risk of long-term health problems. Organs that may be affected by COVID-19 include:

Heart. Imaging tests taken months after recovery from COVID-19 have shown lasting damage to the heart muscle, even in people who experienced only mild COVID-19 symptoms. This may increase the risk of heart failure or other heart complications in the future.

Lungs. The type of pneumonia often associated with COVID-19 can cause long-standing damage to the tiny air sacs (alveoli) in the lungs. The resulting scar tissue can lead to long-term breathing problems.

Brain. Even in young people, COVID-19 can cause strokes, seizures and Guillain-Barre syndrome — a condition that causes temporary paralysis. COVID-19 may also increase the risk of developing Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease."


Also, notice how the "indistinct future" is the last ditch refuge of noVaxxers: "I don't know if the vaccines will have unforeseen consequences..." I'll think about that bridge when (and if) I get to it. Right now I have to think about a very scary and clear present.
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Pat

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #49 on: August 05, 2021, 06:29:16 AM »
The vaccinations aren't even FDA approved, for crying out loud.

They have emergency approval and will gain final approval next month.

Good for them. One hurdle down, assuming everything goes well.

But that doesn't change the fact that the government has encouraged mass vaccinations with a vaccine that still only has emergency approval, has immunized themselves from legal responsibility for unforseen side effects, and has discouraged reporting of vaccine side effects.

They've got a long way to go before I even consider getting one of these vaccinations.
They're rushing the final approval. It's getting a fair amount of criticism, and not just from partisan sources. (For instance, Kevin Drum, formerly of Mother Jones, doesn't think it should be rushed.)

The government has immunized the pharma companies, not the government itself. Though it's often difficult to sue government entities.

Pat

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #50 on: August 05, 2021, 06:41:08 AM »
How many people died or are suffering from high-morbidity long term damage after COVID compared to how many people died or are suffering from high-morbidity long term damage from vaccines? It is that simple.
It varies. For the elderly, there's a compelling case for the vaccines. But for younger people, especially those who aren't obese, the trade off between the known risks of the vaccines and the possible chance of an infection is much murkier, and there doesn't seem to any good argument for jabbing children.

Also, notice how the "indistinct future" is the last ditch refuge of noVaxxers: "I don't know if the vaccines will have unforeseen consequences..." I'll think about that bridge when (and if) I get to it. Right now I have to think about a very scary and clear present.
While it's about economics not risk assessment, you reminded me of Bastiat's parable on the seen and unseen, because he highlights the importance of looking at all possible consequences of a situation. If you just consider the immediate, obvious effects there's a very good chance the conclusions you draw will be completely wrong. The unknown long term side effects of the vaccines must be considered in any risk assessment.

Ghostmaker

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #51 on: August 05, 2021, 08:00:29 AM »
The vaccinations aren't even FDA approved, for crying out loud.

They have emergency approval and will gain final approval next month.

Good for them. One hurdle down, assuming everything goes well.

But that doesn't change the fact that the government has encouraged mass vaccinations with a vaccine that still only has emergency approval, has immunized themselves from legal responsibility for unforseen side effects, and has discouraged reporting of vaccine side effects.

They've got a long way to go before I even consider getting one of these vaccinations.
They're rushing the final approval. It's getting a fair amount of criticism, and not just from partisan sources. (For instance, Kevin Drum, formerly of Mother Jones, doesn't think it should be rushed.)

The government has immunized the pharma companies, not the government itself. Though it's often difficult to sue government entities.
Government promises of immunity are worth precisely the paper they're printed on.

Reckall

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #52 on: August 05, 2021, 08:10:35 AM »
How many people died or are suffering from high-morbidity long term damage after COVID compared to how many people died or are suffering from high-morbidity long term damage from vaccines? It is that simple.
Quote
It varies. For the elderly, there's a compelling case for the vaccines. But for younger people, especially those who aren't obese, the trade off between the known risks of the vaccines and the possible chance of an infection is much murkier, and there doesn't seem to any good argument for jabbing children.

Brain. Even in young people, COVID-19 can cause strokes, seizures and Guillain-Barre syndrome — a condition that causes temporary paralysis. (from a post just above yours)
Quote
Also, notice how the "indistinct future" is the last ditch refuge of noVaxxers: "I don't know if the vaccines will have unforeseen consequences..." I'll think about that bridge when (and if) I get to it. Right now I have to think about a very scary and clear present.
While it's about economics not risk assessment, you reminded me of Bastiat's parable on the seen and unseen, because he highlights the importance of looking at all possible consequences of a situation...

...In the time we are given, I guess. And COVID took the World by storm. Do you want to wait more? Fine. Let's consider this solution. We know for certain that unchecked COVID causes variants. While most virii lose power with every generational cycle, this is not the case with this one. As we are seeing, it's already the variants the cause of the resurging scare.

We also know that "long term effects" of vaccines is something being studied since vaccines were created. Two and half billions people being vaccinated in a six months span is an unprecedented sample. For every informational article that patently describes why these COVID vaccines are safe you find one article that just screams danger - while sadly lacking counterfactual data.

And in this situation the best you can think of is "No! Wait!" Seriously? If a tiger is about to jump you, you don't react until you have evaluated the impact of killing her on a dwindling species? Or if getting tiger blood on your clothes can, one day, give you AIDS? Really?

And I'm still waiting for an answer to my basic question, a question I see being avoided everywhere I post it: 4% of World population, 25% of the dead by COVID. How could this happen?
« Last Edit: August 05, 2021, 08:13:33 AM by Reckall »
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Ghostmaker

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #53 on: August 05, 2021, 08:14:22 AM »
How many people died or are suffering from high-morbidity long term damage after COVID compared to how many people died or are suffering from high-morbidity long term damage from vaccines? It is that simple.
Quote
It varies. For the elderly, there's a compelling case for the vaccines. But for younger people, especially those who aren't obese, the trade off between the known risks of the vaccines and the possible chance of an infection is much murkier, and there doesn't seem to any good argument for jabbing children.

Brain. Even in young people, COVID-19 can cause strokes, seizures and Guillain-Barre syndrome — a condition that causes temporary paralysis. (from a post just above yours)
Quote
Also, notice how the "indistinct future" is the last ditch refuge of noVaxxers: "I don't know if the vaccines will have unforeseen consequences..." I'll think about that bridge when (and if) I get to it. Right now I have to think about a very scary and clear present.
While it's about economics not risk assessment, you reminded me of Bastiat's parable on the seen and unseen, because he highlights the importance of looking at all possible consequences of a situation...

...In the time we are given, I guess. And COVID took the World by storm. Do you want to wait more? Fine. Let's consider this solution. We know for certain that unchecked COVID causes variants. While most virii lose power with every generational cycle, this is not the case with this one. As we are seeing, it's already the variants the cause of the resurging scare.

We also know that "long term effects" of vaccines is something being studied since vaccines were created. Two and half billions people being vaccinated in a six months span is an unprecedented sample. For every informational article that patently describes why these COVID vaccines are safe you find one article that just screams danger - while sadly lacking counterfactual data.

And in this situation the best you can think of is "No! Wait!" Seriously? If a tiger is about to jump you, you don't react until you have evaluated the impact of killing her on a dwindling species? Or if getting tiger blood on your clothes can, one day, give you AIDS? Really?

And I'm still waiting for an answer to my basic question, a question I see being avoided everywhere I post it: 4% of World population, 25% of the dead by COVID. How could this happen?
Ask the Chinese. If you dare.

Reckall

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #54 on: August 05, 2021, 08:26:11 AM »
How many people died or are suffering from high-morbidity long term damage after COVID compared to how many people died or are suffering from high-morbidity long term damage from vaccines? It is that simple.
Quote
It varies. For the elderly, there's a compelling case for the vaccines. But for younger people, especially those who aren't obese, the trade off between the known risks of the vaccines and the possible chance of an infection is much murkier, and there doesn't seem to any good argument for jabbing children.

Brain. Even in young people, COVID-19 can cause strokes, seizures and Guillain-Barre syndrome — a condition that causes temporary paralysis. (from a post just above yours)
Quote
Also, notice how the "indistinct future" is the last ditch refuge of noVaxxers: "I don't know if the vaccines will have unforeseen consequences..." I'll think about that bridge when (and if) I get to it. Right now I have to think about a very scary and clear present.
While it's about economics not risk assessment, you reminded me of Bastiat's parable on the seen and unseen, because he highlights the importance of looking at all possible consequences of a situation...

...In the time we are given, I guess. And COVID took the World by storm. Do you want to wait more? Fine. Let's consider this solution. We know for certain that unchecked COVID causes variants. While most virii lose power with every generational cycle, this is not the case with this one. As we are seeing, it's already the variants the cause of the resurging scare.

We also know that "long term effects" of vaccines is something being studied since vaccines were created. Two and half billions people being vaccinated in a six months span is an unprecedented sample. For every informational article that patently describes why these COVID vaccines are safe you find one article that just screams danger - while sadly lacking counterfactual data.

And in this situation the best you can think of is "No! Wait!" Seriously? If a tiger is about to jump you, you don't react until you have evaluated the impact of killing her on a dwindling species? Or if getting tiger blood on your clothes can, one day, give you AIDS? Really?

And I'm still waiting for an answer to my basic question, a question I see being avoided everywhere I post it: 4% of World population, 25% of the dead by COVID. How could this happen?
Ask the Chinese. If you dare.

Are you telling me that, should the Chinese Army invade the US, the US will fold due to random squabbles about helmets and local governors declaring "There is no emergency, send the troops home, we can't have a deployed Army ruin Spring Break"?
For every idiot who denounces Ayn Rand as "intellectualism" there is an excellent DM who creates a "Bioshock" adventure.

HappyDaze

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #55 on: August 05, 2021, 08:41:59 AM »
How many people died or are suffering from high-morbidity long term damage after COVID compared to how many people died or are suffering from high-morbidity long term damage from vaccines? It is that simple.
Quote
It varies. For the elderly, there's a compelling case for the vaccines. But for younger people, especially those who aren't obese, the trade off between the known risks of the vaccines and the possible chance of an infection is much murkier, and there doesn't seem to any good argument for jabbing children.

Brain. Even in young people, COVID-19 can cause strokes, seizures and Guillain-Barre syndrome — a condition that causes temporary paralysis. (from a post just above yours)
Quote
Also, notice how the "indistinct future" is the last ditch refuge of noVaxxers: "I don't know if the vaccines will have unforeseen consequences..." I'll think about that bridge when (and if) I get to it. Right now I have to think about a very scary and clear present.
While it's about economics not risk assessment, you reminded me of Bastiat's parable on the seen and unseen, because he highlights the importance of looking at all possible consequences of a situation...

...In the time we are given, I guess. And COVID took the World by storm. Do you want to wait more? Fine. Let's consider this solution. We know for certain that unchecked COVID causes variants. While most virii lose power with every generational cycle, this is not the case with this one. As we are seeing, it's already the variants the cause of the resurging scare.

We also know that "long term effects" of vaccines is something being studied since vaccines were created. Two and half billions people being vaccinated in a six months span is an unprecedented sample. For every informational article that patently describes why these COVID vaccines are safe you find one article that just screams danger - while sadly lacking counterfactual data.

And in this situation the best you can think of is "No! Wait!" Seriously? If a tiger is about to jump you, you don't react until you have evaluated the impact of killing her on a dwindling species? Or if getting tiger blood on your clothes can, one day, give you AIDS? Really?

And I'm still waiting for an answer to my basic question, a question I see being avoided everywhere I post it: 4% of World population, 25% of the dead by COVID. How could this happen?
Ask the Chinese. If you dare.

Are you telling me that, should the Chinese Army invade the US, the US will fold due to random squabbles about helmets and local governors declaring "There is no emergency, send the troops home, we can't have a deployed Army ruin Spring Break"?
I live in Florida. I have no doubts my governor will do whatever it takes to increase his chances with his political base...even if it were to lead to their deaths. So, yeah. I can see it.

Ghostmaker

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #56 on: August 05, 2021, 09:12:27 AM »
How many people died or are suffering from high-morbidity long term damage after COVID compared to how many people died or are suffering from high-morbidity long term damage from vaccines? It is that simple.
Quote
It varies. For the elderly, there's a compelling case for the vaccines. But for younger people, especially those who aren't obese, the trade off between the known risks of the vaccines and the possible chance of an infection is much murkier, and there doesn't seem to any good argument for jabbing children.

Brain. Even in young people, COVID-19 can cause strokes, seizures and Guillain-Barre syndrome — a condition that causes temporary paralysis. (from a post just above yours)
Quote
Also, notice how the "indistinct future" is the last ditch refuge of noVaxxers: "I don't know if the vaccines will have unforeseen consequences..." I'll think about that bridge when (and if) I get to it. Right now I have to think about a very scary and clear present.
While it's about economics not risk assessment, you reminded me of Bastiat's parable on the seen and unseen, because he highlights the importance of looking at all possible consequences of a situation...

...In the time we are given, I guess. And COVID took the World by storm. Do you want to wait more? Fine. Let's consider this solution. We know for certain that unchecked COVID causes variants. While most virii lose power with every generational cycle, this is not the case with this one. As we are seeing, it's already the variants the cause of the resurging scare.

We also know that "long term effects" of vaccines is something being studied since vaccines were created. Two and half billions people being vaccinated in a six months span is an unprecedented sample. For every informational article that patently describes why these COVID vaccines are safe you find one article that just screams danger - while sadly lacking counterfactual data.

And in this situation the best you can think of is "No! Wait!" Seriously? If a tiger is about to jump you, you don't react until you have evaluated the impact of killing her on a dwindling species? Or if getting tiger blood on your clothes can, one day, give you AIDS? Really?

And I'm still waiting for an answer to my basic question, a question I see being avoided everywhere I post it: 4% of World population, 25% of the dead by COVID. How could this happen?
Ask the Chinese. If you dare.

Are you telling me that, should the Chinese Army invade the US, the US will fold due to random squabbles about helmets and local governors declaring "There is no emergency, send the troops home, we can't have a deployed Army ruin Spring Break"?
Nope.

You're a bright boy, though. I'm sure you'll figure it out.

If you need help: https://spectatorworld.com/topic/new-york-times-quashed-covid-origins-inquiry/

Reckall

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #57 on: August 05, 2021, 09:23:34 AM »
How many people died or are suffering from high-morbidity long term damage after COVID compared to how many people died or are suffering from high-morbidity long term damage from vaccines? It is that simple.
Quote
It varies. For the elderly, there's a compelling case for the vaccines. But for younger people, especially those who aren't obese, the trade off between the known risks of the vaccines and the possible chance of an infection is much murkier, and there doesn't seem to any good argument for jabbing children.

Brain. Even in young people, COVID-19 can cause strokes, seizures and Guillain-Barre syndrome — a condition that causes temporary paralysis. (from a post just above yours)
Quote
Also, notice how the "indistinct future" is the last ditch refuge of noVaxxers: "I don't know if the vaccines will have unforeseen consequences..." I'll think about that bridge when (and if) I get to it. Right now I have to think about a very scary and clear present.
While it's about economics not risk assessment, you reminded me of Bastiat's parable on the seen and unseen, because he highlights the importance of looking at all possible consequences of a situation...

...In the time we are given, I guess. And COVID took the World by storm. Do you want to wait more? Fine. Let's consider this solution. We know for certain that unchecked COVID causes variants. While most virii lose power with every generational cycle, this is not the case with this one. As we are seeing, it's already the variants the cause of the resurging scare.

We also know that "long term effects" of vaccines is something being studied since vaccines were created. Two and half billions people being vaccinated in a six months span is an unprecedented sample. For every informational article that patently describes why these COVID vaccines are safe you find one article that just screams danger - while sadly lacking counterfactual data.

And in this situation the best you can think of is "No! Wait!" Seriously? If a tiger is about to jump you, you don't react until you have evaluated the impact of killing her on a dwindling species? Or if getting tiger blood on your clothes can, one day, give you AIDS? Really?

And I'm still waiting for an answer to my basic question, a question I see being avoided everywhere I post it: 4% of World population, 25% of the dead by COVID. How could this happen?
Ask the Chinese. If you dare.

Are you telling me that, should the Chinese Army invade the US, the US will fold due to random squabbles about helmets and local governors declaring "There is no emergency, send the troops home, we can't have a deployed Army ruin Spring Break"?
I live in Florida. I have no doubts my governor will do whatever it takes to increase his chances with his political base...even if it were to lead to their deaths. So, yeah. I can see it.

Me too:

For every idiot who denounces Ayn Rand as "intellectualism" there is an excellent DM who creates a "Bioshock" adventure.

Ghostmaker

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #58 on: August 05, 2021, 09:33:20 AM »
HappyDerp, continuing to pretend that Andrew Cuomo didn't kill 15,000+ New Yorkers with his policies.

Until Cuomo's doing a perp walk, I don't want to hear shit about anyone else, bitches.

Reckall

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #59 on: August 05, 2021, 09:42:12 AM »
How many people died or are suffering from high-morbidity long term damage after COVID compared to how many people died or are suffering from high-morbidity long term damage from vaccines? It is that simple.
Quote
It varies. For the elderly, there's a compelling case for the vaccines. But for younger people, especially those who aren't obese, the trade off between the known risks of the vaccines and the possible chance of an infection is much murkier, and there doesn't seem to any good argument for jabbing children.

Brain. Even in young people, COVID-19 can cause strokes, seizures and Guillain-Barre syndrome — a condition that causes temporary paralysis. (from a post just above yours)
Quote
Also, notice how the "indistinct future" is the last ditch refuge of noVaxxers: "I don't know if the vaccines will have unforeseen consequences..." I'll think about that bridge when (and if) I get to it. Right now I have to think about a very scary and clear present.
While it's about economics not risk assessment, you reminded me of Bastiat's parable on the seen and unseen, because he highlights the importance of looking at all possible consequences of a situation...

...In the time we are given, I guess. And COVID took the World by storm. Do you want to wait more? Fine. Let's consider this solution. We know for certain that unchecked COVID causes variants. While most virii lose power with every generational cycle, this is not the case with this one. As we are seeing, it's already the variants the cause of the resurging scare.

We also know that "long term effects" of vaccines is something being studied since vaccines were created. Two and half billions people being vaccinated in a six months span is an unprecedented sample. For every informational article that patently describes why these COVID vaccines are safe you find one article that just screams danger - while sadly lacking counterfactual data.

And in this situation the best you can think of is "No! Wait!" Seriously? If a tiger is about to jump you, you don't react until you have evaluated the impact of killing her on a dwindling species? Or if getting tiger blood on your clothes can, one day, give you AIDS? Really?

And I'm still waiting for an answer to my basic question, a question I see being avoided everywhere I post it: 4% of World population, 25% of the dead by COVID. How could this happen?
Ask the Chinese. If you dare.

Are you telling me that, should the Chinese Army invade the US, the US will fold due to random squabbles about helmets and local governors declaring "There is no emergency, send the troops home, we can't have a deployed Army ruin Spring Break"?
Nope.

You're a bright boy, though. I'm sure you'll figure it out.

Are you sure you don't work for Evil Hat?  :D

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If you need help: https://spectatorworld.com/topic/new-york-times-quashed-covid-origins-inquiry/

And?

Once the virus reached the US, no matter if from Dr. Evil's Fortress or from a Color Out of Space, how did the US screw up so spectacularly?

But, as I wrote, I never get a direct answer to this question - here being only an example. What I get instead are lectures from these people about the best way to tackle it. ::)
For every idiot who denounces Ayn Rand as "intellectualism" there is an excellent DM who creates a "Bioshock" adventure.