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Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!

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3catcircus:

--- Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on June 10, 2022, 01:30:02 PM ---
--- Quote from: dkabq on June 10, 2022, 12:06:20 PM ---"I have a hard time going from these numbers to the assured conclusions that “masks work” that was promulgated by the media or the authors after this preprint appeared."

--- End quote ---

Yeah, I have to admit my thoughts on that matter have always been, "If masks really worked*, you wouldn't need studies to see that they worked."

(For "worked", read "slowed the spread of infection well enough in actual deployment to be worth imposing as a mandate". That a specific infected person will emit fewer viral particles into his environment when masked is a given. That this makes enough difference to actual in-community transmission to be worth doing is a much dodgier question.)

--- End quote ---

It depends. For disease spread by droplets, it can make a difference. For disease spread by aerosols, not at all if it is anything less than an N95.  The physical size of aerosols is small enough to slip right through the weave on a surgical mask. Viral particles are typically between 0.05 and 0.8  micrometers in diameter. In still air, it'll take about 40 hrs for a 0.5 micrometer sized particle to settle out of suspension by about 5 feet and it'll take about the same amount of time to reach a half life in concentration of those same sized particles in turbulent air.

It's always been more about the ventilation to dilute viral particle concentration rather than wearing of masks with a weave that is larger than the size of the viral particles.

HappyDaze:

--- Quote from: 3catcircus on June 10, 2022, 04:26:07 PM ---
--- Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on June 10, 2022, 01:30:02 PM ---
--- Quote from: dkabq on June 10, 2022, 12:06:20 PM ---"I have a hard time going from these numbers to the assured conclusions that “masks work” that was promulgated by the media or the authors after this preprint appeared."

--- End quote ---

Yeah, I have to admit my thoughts on that matter have always been, "If masks really worked*, you wouldn't need studies to see that they worked."

(For "worked", read "slowed the spread of infection well enough in actual deployment to be worth imposing as a mandate". That a specific infected person will emit fewer viral particles into his environment when masked is a given. That this makes enough difference to actual in-community transmission to be worth doing is a much dodgier question.)

--- End quote ---

It depends. For disease spread by droplets, it can make a difference. For disease spread by aerosols, not at all if it is anything less than an N95.  The physical size of aerosols is small enough to slip right through the weave on a surgical mask. Viral particles are typically between 0.05 and 0.8  micrometers in diameter. In still air, it'll take about 40 hrs for a 0.5 micrometer sized particle to settle out of suspension by about 5 feet and it'll take about the same amount of time to reach a half life in concentration of those same sized particles in turbulent air.

It's always been more about the ventilation to dilute viral particle concentration rather than wearing of masks with a weave that is larger than the size of the viral particles.

--- End quote ---
Yet some people were saying that wearing masks supposedly prevented them (or, as some claimed, their kids) from getting enough oxygen...molecules of which are too small to be impeded by even an N95.

Shasarak:

--- Quote from: HappyDaze on June 10, 2022, 05:41:33 PM ---
--- Quote from: 3catcircus on June 10, 2022, 04:26:07 PM ---
--- Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on June 10, 2022, 01:30:02 PM ---
--- Quote from: dkabq on June 10, 2022, 12:06:20 PM ---"I have a hard time going from these numbers to the assured conclusions that “masks work” that was promulgated by the media or the authors after this preprint appeared."

--- End quote ---

Yeah, I have to admit my thoughts on that matter have always been, "If masks really worked*, you wouldn't need studies to see that they worked."

(For "worked", read "slowed the spread of infection well enough in actual deployment to be worth imposing as a mandate". That a specific infected person will emit fewer viral particles into his environment when masked is a given. That this makes enough difference to actual in-community transmission to be worth doing is a much dodgier question.)

--- End quote ---

It depends. For disease spread by droplets, it can make a difference. For disease spread by aerosols, not at all if it is anything less than an N95.  The physical size of aerosols is small enough to slip right through the weave on a surgical mask. Viral particles are typically between 0.05 and 0.8  micrometers in diameter. In still air, it'll take about 40 hrs for a 0.5 micrometer sized particle to settle out of suspension by about 5 feet and it'll take about the same amount of time to reach a half life in concentration of those same sized particles in turbulent air.

It's always been more about the ventilation to dilute viral particle concentration rather than wearing of masks with a weave that is larger than the size of the viral particles.

--- End quote ---
Yet some people were saying that wearing masks supposedly prevented them (or, as some claimed, their kids) from getting enough oxygen...molecules of which are too small to be impeded by even an N95.

--- End quote ---

Thats why Happydaze wears three masks - just to make sure.

dkabq:

--- Quote from: HappyDaze on June 10, 2022, 05:41:33 PM ---
--- Quote from: 3catcircus on June 10, 2022, 04:26:07 PM ---
--- Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on June 10, 2022, 01:30:02 PM ---
--- Quote from: dkabq on June 10, 2022, 12:06:20 PM ---"I have a hard time going from these numbers to the assured conclusions that “masks work” that was promulgated by the media or the authors after this preprint appeared."

--- End quote ---

Yeah, I have to admit my thoughts on that matter have always been, "If masks really worked*, you wouldn't need studies to see that they worked."

(For "worked", read "slowed the spread of infection well enough in actual deployment to be worth imposing as a mandate". That a specific infected person will emit fewer viral particles into his environment when masked is a given. That this makes enough difference to actual in-community transmission to be worth doing is a much dodgier question.)

--- End quote ---

It depends. For disease spread by droplets, it can make a difference. For disease spread by aerosols, not at all if it is anything less than an N95.  The physical size of aerosols is small enough to slip right through the weave on a surgical mask. Viral particles are typically between 0.05 and 0.8  micrometers in diameter. In still air, it'll take about 40 hrs for a 0.5 micrometer sized particle to settle out of suspension by about 5 feet and it'll take about the same amount of time to reach a half life in concentration of those same sized particles in turbulent air.

It's always been more about the ventilation to dilute viral particle concentration rather than wearing of masks with a weave that is larger than the size of the viral particles.

--- End quote ---
Yet some people were saying that wearing masks supposedly prevented them (or, as some claimed, their kids) from getting enough oxygen...molecules of which are too small to be impeded by even an N95.

--- End quote ---

The pressure drop across the mask would result in an increase in the work of breathing needed to intake the same amount of air, or a reduction in respiration volume (and hence oxygen) for the same work of breathing. Also, the mask would result in an increase in CO2 re-breathing which can make your breathing feel labored. My first job out of graduate school was working in a physiology department lab investigating the impact of design modifications on work of breathing and CO2 re-breathing for deep water diving helmets.

HappyDaze:

--- Quote from: dkabq on June 10, 2022, 08:47:06 PM ---
--- Quote from: HappyDaze on June 10, 2022, 05:41:33 PM ---
--- Quote from: 3catcircus on June 10, 2022, 04:26:07 PM ---
--- Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on June 10, 2022, 01:30:02 PM ---
--- Quote from: dkabq on June 10, 2022, 12:06:20 PM ---"I have a hard time going from these numbers to the assured conclusions that “masks work” that was promulgated by the media or the authors after this preprint appeared."

--- End quote ---

Yeah, I have to admit my thoughts on that matter have always been, "If masks really worked*, you wouldn't need studies to see that they worked."

(For "worked", read "slowed the spread of infection well enough in actual deployment to be worth imposing as a mandate". That a specific infected person will emit fewer viral particles into his environment when masked is a given. That this makes enough difference to actual in-community transmission to be worth doing is a much dodgier question.)

--- End quote ---

It depends. For disease spread by droplets, it can make a difference. For disease spread by aerosols, not at all if it is anything less than an N95.  The physical size of aerosols is small enough to slip right through the weave on a surgical mask. Viral particles are typically between 0.05 and 0.8  micrometers in diameter. In still air, it'll take about 40 hrs for a 0.5 micrometer sized particle to settle out of suspension by about 5 feet and it'll take about the same amount of time to reach a half life in concentration of those same sized particles in turbulent air.

It's always been more about the ventilation to dilute viral particle concentration rather than wearing of masks with a weave that is larger than the size of the viral particles.

--- End quote ---
Yet some people were saying that wearing masks supposedly prevented them (or, as some claimed, their kids) from getting enough oxygen...molecules of which are too small to be impeded by even an N95.

--- End quote ---

The pressure drop across the mask would result in an increase in the work of breathing needed to intake the same amount of air, or a reduction in respiration volume (and hence oxygen) for the same work of breathing. Also, the mask would result in an increase in CO2 re-breathing which can make your breathing feel labored. My first job out of graduate school was working in a physiology department lab investigating the impact of design modifications on work of breathing and CO2 re-breathing for deep water diving helmets.

--- End quote ---
How much does.wearing a simple surgical/procedural mask or even a cloth mask impact work of breathing or CO2 rebreathing? I doubt they are anything like the deep water diving helmet you were working on.

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