Hello everyone, and forgive me if I've post this in an inappropriate forum. Also forgive me as this may be a little long winded.
I'm a long time gamer who enjoys traditional style RPGs (D&D, Traveller, BRP, SW, etc.) I have been trying for years to find an online community to discuss games and geek related material, but I've not been able to do so for reasons I will explain below.
I've tried on two separate occasions to make RPG.net the home of my expression. However, both times I was unfairly reprimanded by their staff. The first time was because I suggested that publishers were using crowd funding in a manner that it was not designed for. I suggested that if someone wanted to publish an RPG, that they should write the damn thing first (or have substantial work done) before asking the community for money. I was told that this was a personal attack because they thought I suggested that a writer's time was not worth my money. I was given a formal warning. I was so pissed I left the site.
After that I spent some time on the WoTC and EN world forums but they are, obviously, rather narrowly focused. When I tired of those I decided to try RPG.net again only to receive yet another "punishment" from moderators. This time somebody posted a question about how to get the narrative fiddly bits of The Strix Chronicle to work. I replied that I thought it really didn't work that well and encouraged the poster to try the less "high brow" system from The Masquerade instead. This opinion, apparently, was an offensive attack on Onyx Path and also "thread crapping."
I was quite pissed by then and saw a topic ban on RPG.net on some characters called theRPGpundit and Zak S. Now, I don't really know who these people are (other than that they are not welcome on RPG.net) but I thought the site of one of those people might be a place for me to vent about how pissed I am at RPG.net.
Anyway, thank you for listening to my rant and I hope this is a community that will suit my needs.
Welcome aboard!
Quote from: TheFailedSave;821690The first time was because I suggested that publishers were using crowd funding in a manner that it was not designed for. I suggested that if someone wanted to publish an RPG, that they should write the damn thing first (or have substantial work done) before asking the community for money. I was told that this was a personal attack because they thought I suggested that a writer's time was not worth my money. I was given a formal warning. I was so pissed I left the site.
That's funny, I was on the other side of that argument a while back(most of my kickstarters are video games that simply wouldn't happen without serious up front funding, I carry my willingness to throw money off the bridge to RPGs I really want to see happen) and the popular opinion seemed to very much be with you on kickstarter being less a flying leap and more a glorified pre-order measuring mechanism. Think I got groused at over that comparison.
Anyway, hello, the guys around here have all kinds of thoughts on things and are rarely shy to express them, which will probably suit you fine.
Welcome, now go talk about games!
Quote from: MrHurst;821704That's funny, I was on the other side of that argument a while back(most of my kickstarters are video games that simply wouldn't happen without serious up front funding, I carry my willingness to throw money off the bridge to RPGs I really want to see happen) and the popular opinion seemed to very much be with you on kickstarter being less a flying leap and more a glorified pre-order measuring mechanism. Think I got groused at over that comparison.
Anyway, hello, the guys around here have all kinds of thoughts on things and are rarely shy to express them, which will probably suit you fine.
First, thank you all for the welcome.
As far as my Kickstarter issues go, they were rather specific to writing. As an avid hobby writer and somebody who writes reports daily in my career, I don't see why I should support a product that has little to no text written. The only capitol required for text is a low end computer. There are free word processors, operating systems, and web based writing aides (I use all of the above at times.) Art, layout, printing, and advertising certainly cost money and that should be what the kickstarter pays for. Editing can potentiality cost as well, but most publishers seem to save money in this category. I could come up with a really cool RPG pitch today and put it up on KS with not a thought to text yet. Would you give me money for it?
As for video games, that's a different story. As I can prove with my existence, any monkey with a type writer can produce text cheaply with even a modest education. Just about everything involved with creating a (video) game will cost money after the concept stage.
Welcome! Go, populate our RPG boards with more game diversity! Active voices, now with real opinions!, are encouraged. :)
Quote from: TheFailedSave;821690I suggested that if someone wanted to publish an RPG, that they should write the damn thing first (or have substantial work done) before asking the community for money.
I happen to agree with this a hundred percent. That's why I love the way Sine Nomine does their kickstarters.
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;821722I happen to agree with this a hundred percent. That's why I love the way Sine Nomine does their kickstarters.
I should probably own up in that they're the only RPG book kickstarters I've backed. Worth every cent too.
Quote from: TheFailedSave;821690... I thought the site of one of those people might be a place for me to vent about how pissed I am at RPG.net.
You're certainly in the right place for that, yeah.
Welcome to the forum TheFailedSave. As for the nWoD second edition (aka God Machine Chronicles and The Strixx Chronicles) I have made this blog post (http://paperlaboratoryofdreams.blogspot.com/2015/02/fixing-world-of-darkness-in-general.html) in my own blog.
In the style of X-men comics:
Welcome to the Adult Swim, TheFailedSave. Hope you survive the experience!
Thanks again everyone! I will look at that nWoD blog post soon. You know, for being a bunch of miscreants and haters (according to rpg.net) you guys don't seem so bad J/K
Quote from: TheFailedSave;821917Thanks again everyone! I will look at that nWoD blog post soon. You know, for being a bunch of miscreants and haters (according to rpg.net) you guys don't seem so bad J/K
Welcome to theRPGsite, speaking as owner and one of rpgnet's two main Public Enemies.
You're welcome to bitch about rpgnet here, but we hope you'll also spend more time posting about RPGs over on the main forum!
Also don't forget that if you disagree with Pundit or any of the other mods and want to call him/them a bunch of shitheads feel free to do so; it's not gonna get you banned.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;822054Also don't forget that if you disagree with Pundit or any of the other mods and want to call him/them a bunch of shitheads feel free to do so; it's not gonna get you banned.
No it won't, so long as you're not derailing entire scores of threads just to do it.
Thanks again. I probably won't toss out too many obscenities at mods... unless they deserve it ;) I've already started posting and following discussions in the general forum.
Welcome aboard! The conversation is good and even the arguments tend to be productive.
Quote from: TheFailedSave;821917You know, for being a bunch of miscreants and haters (according to rpg.net) you guys don't seem so bad J/K
Reports of our unsocial behavior have been greatly exaggerated.
meh...speak for yourself, I'm walking down the street wearing nothing but a lampshade and blue paint even as we speak!
Welcome aboard!
I am of two minds for Kickstarters. I personally won't fund something that isn't near completion, but I don't need it as done as Sine Nomine to back it - a good rough draft is enough for me. But I do fully respect how Kevin Crawford shows up just for art money and pre-sales, and then donates the art to the community. But hey, if others want to pay an author to even start a project, more power to them.
Quote from: jeff37923;822352Reports of our unsocial behavior have been greatly exaggerated.
Sadly, we've been slacking.
Somebody, quick stir up a controversial hatefest!
Quote from: TheFailedSave;821708As far as my Kickstarter issues go, they were rather specific to writing. As an avid hobby writer and somebody who writes reports daily in my career, I don't see why I should support a product that has little to no text written. The only capitol required for text is a low end computer. There are free word processors, operating systems, and web based writing aides (I use all of the above at times.) Art, layout, printing, and advertising certainly cost money and that should be what the kickstarter pays for. Editing can potentiality cost as well, but most publishers seem to save money in this category. I could come up with a really cool RPG pitch today and put it up on KS with not a thought to text yet. Would you give me money for it?
I agree with you. Kickstarter is really a good thing, but some people abuse it. Yet, it's up to the backers to have discernment however. I never used any kickstarter for my own RPG work (see below), and do not intend to for future releases.
It's quite freeing to be able to express my opinion and not be told that I'm naughty and deserve punishment. A few people even seem to agree with me. I suspect that I will focus most of my fora browsing and posting here.
While my irritation with RPG.net is somewhat soothed with this discovery, I feel like give a quick gripe today. I took a brief look at their forums and saw several people being banned or reprimanded for simply having a dissenting opinion . The explanation given for one was that he was insensitive (to summarize.) To put it delicately, this is bullshit. How is this at all healthy for our small hobby?
It isn't, but this is what happens when you replace honesty with politeness. Not to mention many of those moderators happen to be developers. Not saying it is a bad thing cause RPGPundit keeps himself in control, but some devs can't do that. There is a conflict of interest and they will rather shut up the forum user as long as their game isn't criticize. Seriously look at the Exalted 3rd edition forums on both sites as a example.
Quote from: TheFailedSave;821917Thanks again everyone! I will look at that nWoD blog post soon. You know, for being a bunch of miscreants and haters (according to rpg.net) you guys don't seem so bad J/K
The tone here can often get abrasive. Those with delicate sensibilities find their tender bits grated raw here fairly easily. If you're at all thick skinned, you'll do fine.
Quote from: Doctor Jest;823272The tone here can often get abrasive. Those with delicate sensibilities find their tender bits grated raw here fairly easily. If you're at all thick skinned, you'll do fine.
I'm not too worried. Provided that they are speaking with some attempt at logic, I can deal with people who are less than polite. In fact, I deal with uncooperative people on a daily basis for a living. While it is in our best interests to get along on a basic level, disagreements are human and necessary for advancement of ideas. I would rather be in a place where somebody can insult me if I also have the same freedom of speech.
Be very welcome :) Let's talk about games.
Quote from: TheFailedSave;823246While my irritation with RPG.net is somewhat soothed with this discovery, I feel like give a quick gripe today.
Fellow noob here.
Think of it as a messy break-up. You're still angry with them, you occasionally see them around and get angry at them all over again. But they're gone now... let them go.
The anti-rpg.net tone, funny though it is, really is the least interesting thing about this place. Plenty of interesting gaming discussions to be had here.
Quote from: Momotaro;824595The anti-rpg.net tone, funny though it is, really is the least interesting thing about this place.
I think we've improved a bit on that front recently.
Every time there's a purge we cycle through it again.
Quote from: One Horse Town;824598I think we've improved a bit on that front recently.
Every time there's a purge we cycle through it again.
Well I have stuck around - the range of opinion and discussion expressed here suits a traditional lefty like me just fine.
Anyone want to go give a piece of their mind to the RPGNet mods?
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?753426-How-can-we-improve-rpg-net
Just being sarcastic. I don't think they're really going to look at themselves critically.
Quote from: Momotaro;824595The anti-rpg.net tone, funny though it is, really is the least interesting thing about this place. Plenty of interesting gaming discussions to be had here.
I agree.
I ended up here because of a mention about this place in rpg.net.
I never found that place as my own. I got like 160 posts during 9 years in there. By contrast I got near 1000 posts in a not-public local rpg forum in less than a year.
I'll be posting some real text in here in recent days, not just bitching about rpg.net...
Also, I saw already a familiar name here. One Horse Town. If you see this, you might remember me from Warhammer forums! :D
Quote from: Moracai;832376I ended up here because of a mention about this place in rpg.net.
I never found that place as my own. I got like 160 posts during 9 years in there. By contrast I got near 1000 posts in a not-public local rpg forum in less than a year.
I'll be posting some real text in here in recent days, not just bitching about rpg.net...
Also, I saw already a familiar name here. One Horse Town. If you see this, you might remember me from Warhammer forums! :D
Hi! Welcome to the forum. And not bitching about TBP sounds great. :)
Quote from: David Johansen;822357meh...speak for yourself, I'm walking down the street wearing nothing but a lampshade and blue paint even as we speak!
What? Is it a formal occasion, David?
Welcome to the RPGSite, TheFailedSave!
-clash
Well, you can't do Singin' In The Rain properly without some kind of a hat.
Quote from: Moracai;832376I ended up here because of a mention about this place in rpg.net.
I never found that place as my own. I got like 160 posts during 9 years in there. By contrast I got near 1000 posts in a not-public local rpg forum in less than a year.
I'll be posting some real text in here in recent days, not just bitching about rpg.net...
Also, I saw already a familiar name here. One Horse Town. If you see this, you might remember me from Warhammer forums! :D
Welcome to theRPGsite!
Quote from: Moracai;832376Also, I saw already a familiar name here. One Horse Town. If you see this, you might remember me from Warhammer forums! :D
I do indeed! Welcome to the site!
Thanks guys! :)
Welcome to the new folk!!
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;824608Anyone want to go give a piece of their mind to the RPGNet mods?
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?753426-How-can-we-improve-rpg-net
Just being sarcastic. I don't think they're really going to look at themselves critically.
Isn't that akin to a corporation asking for "voluntary constructive feedback" from their employees?
Quote from: TheFailedSave;821690Hello everyone, and forgive me if I've post this in an inappropriate forum. Also forgive me as this may be a little long winded.
I'm a long time gamer who enjoys traditional style RPGs (D&D, Traveller, BRP, SW, etc.) I have been trying for years to find an online community to discuss games and geek related material, but I've not been able to do so for reasons I will explain below.
I've tried on two separate occasions to make RPG.net the home of my expression. [/SNIPPED-NUFF SAID]
Welcome aboard.
Quote from: flyerfan1991;832465Isn't that akin to a corporation asking for "voluntary constructive feedback" from their employees?
Very, very similar.
@OP you got chucked out of RPGnet for being an abrasive idiot.
Many - most, in fact - Kickstarter projects aren't ready when they are funded, there's nothing particularly special about writing projects.
Now you can point to the fairly high rate of problematic projects and suggest that people not fund new projects unless they are already complete, and you would receive significant support for that position.
I fundamentally disagree, I personally will always remain willing to roll the dice on any incomplete project that particularly attracts me, although a risk assessment might well be warranted.
Jeff (above) is also incorrect about the perception of this place as antisocial. You only need to see the number of threads that get locked here, for toxicity, in this nominally "anything goes" forum.
That said, I do enjoy this site, you just have to watch where you put your feet. In that, the rpgsite isn't fundamentally different from anywhere else.
Quote from: Motorskills;833524Jeff (above) is also incorrect about the perception of this place as antisocial. You only need to see the number of threads that get locked here, for toxicity, in this nominally "anything goes" forum.
That said, I do enjoy this site, you just have to watch where you put your feet. In that, the rpgsite isn't fundamentally different from anywhere else.
Well perception is a bitch isn't it?
If you're trying to imply that threadlocks in Pundit's private pigpen, that he lets us all wallow in, is the same in quality as the shit-factory over at TBP... then well refer to my first sentence.
There is consistency upon which threads are locked here, go on and take a look. That you make your point on the surface of the simple act of locking a thread free of context of why/how they are locked only highlights the problem with TBP in particular where there is no consistency of moderation. And apparently no consistency of showing a critical thought in the heads of its fandom.
Wanna know something fundamentally different? Try looking for a fucking banning here. Oh I'm sure they exist... but it's not like the public ass-reaming TBP parades around as "transparency" - while everyone knows the Mods as being anything but.
But hey - surface viewers = surface thinkers. No shock there.
When did Pundit's personal forum become Tangency?
Oh, that's right. NEVER.
I personally see that as a perk, not a bug.
One has nothing to do with the other. This place can be antisocially toxic, that's not my perception, that's the perception of the moderator(s) here. The fact that there aren't bans doesn't change that.
Quote from: Motorskills;833524Jeff (above) is also incorrect about the perception of this place as antisocial. You only need to see the number of threads that get locked here, for toxicity, in this nominally "anything goes" forum.
You know, the freedom to post what you think without fear here does not mean that this site embraces anarchy.
Quote from: jeff37923;834142You know, the freedom to post what you think without fear here does not mean that this site embraces anarchy.
I wouldn't disagree with that. There's a lot of good stuff here.
But assuming Critias' maths is correct, this site is definitely embracing
something (http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=828652&postcount=410).
Quote from: Motorskills;834482I wouldn't disagree with that. There's a lot of good stuff here.
But assuming Critias' maths is correct, this site is definitely embracing something (http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=828652&postcount=410).
If you have something to say, please say it, so noone have to guess what you are referring to.
Quote from: Catelf;834483If you have something to say, please say it, so noone have to guess what you are referring to.
Seriously?
I suggested that this place can be anti-social, can be toxic. But like every site, if you watch where you put your feet you will be fine.
People pushed back hard against that.
I presented evidence - closures by OHT and closures by the Pundit himself, closures for reasons of toxicity - and that wasn't accepted.
I then pointed out Critias' post which provides statistical proof that the priorities of this place are severely fucked up....and apparently it's
me that's being obtuse.
FFS.
To take things back to the OP, if he(?) had merely pitched the viewpoint that funding RPG Kickstarters that weren't already written was a bad idea, he probably would never have found this place.
I think that's unfortunate for a couple of reasons, there's some fantastic stuff here. This review is great, for example. (http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=833162&postcount=1)
Hell, for all his bloviating, Pundit is actually a relatively small part of the dialogue here, and I suspect he is delighted by that.
RPGsite shouldn't be such a leper colony. And yet, on an fairly regular basis, it covers itself in yet another shower of shit.
Quote from: Motorskills;834486Seriously?
I suggested that this place can be anti-social, can be toxic. But like every site, if you watch where you put your feet you will be fine.
People pushed back hard against that.
I presented evidence - closures by OHT and closures by the Pundit himself, closures for reasons of toxicity - and that wasn't accepted.
I then pointed out Critias' post which provides statistical proof that the priorities of this place are severely fucked up....and apparently it's me that's being obtuse.
FFS.
To take things back to the OP, if he(?) had merely pitched the viewpoint that funding RPG Kickstarters that weren't already written was a bad idea, he probably would never have found this place.
I think that's unfortunate for a couple of reasons, there's some fantastic stuff here. This review is great, for example. (http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=833162&postcount=1)
Hell, for all his bloviating, Pundit is actually a relatively small part of the dialogue here, and I suspect he is delighted by that.
RPGsite shouldn't be such a leper colony. And yet, on an fairly regular basis, it covers itself in yet another shower of shit.
Hm, one in a hundred threads closed ... and you mean that is not including threads posted in Pundit's forum that the Pundit isn't interested in?
Because that was my impression that the pushback was about.
This site is friendlier than RPGnet.
So there's that.
Can it frequently be hostile? Sure, but only insomuch as any poster here has the choice in engaging in any of that. There's not much in the way of harassment by any stretch of the imagination, but lots of people who aren't afraid of, or even obsessively engage in, debate on any level. Myself included in some circumstances. Hell, even that link to Critais's whinging post almost induced a retroactive response from me. I doubt however, one would find many frequent examples in the forums here of anyone being hostile to a poster who isnt instigating that. You get from these forums what you bring to them.
Do controversial subjects cause more frequent responses than simple game discussion? Of course. Duh. Human nature. If one hasnt figured that out, they are not tall enough for the Internet Ride. That doesn't mean that Pundit's forum is comparable to Tangency, especially in that the largest problem most posters here have with Tangency is its bleed over into Tabletop Open, something Pundit and the mods here are pretty on top of preventing with prejudice.
Quote from: Motorskills;834486I then pointed out Critias' post which provides statistical proof that the priorities of this place are severely fucked up....and apparently it's me that's being obtuse.
While i think you have a point generally, which is no great revelation to posters here, as i think we have too much off-topic discussion, i find it hard to take your objections to heart.
For example, if we click on your user-name and choose 'find all posts by motorskills' (which anyone can do to any user if they fancy, it isn't some super-secret mod-power), we find that only 26 of your 101 posts here are directly related to gaming talk in the main forum. The rest is on threads like this one, which you are currently decrying.
I suggest to everyone that doesn't like this stuff to be the change you want on the forum. I've been making an effort lately to ignore pretty much everything on Pundit's forum as off-topic and of no interest to me. Do that and focus on the gaming side of the site and much of the unpleasant stuff goes away - not all of it, but most.
Start some threads about your games, and the systems you like. Check out all of Aos's threads and give him encouragement in his endeavors. Talk about Kickstarters you're backing, or campaigns you're preparing for, like Keiro and Skywalker. Post about your miniatures like Tristram or the dungeondelver or sandbox play like Estar and others or whatever floats your boat in gaming.
Do that and you'll find the place more enjoyable, even if you object to some of the content here. Pundit's job is to troll for page-clicks, some like it some don't, but at least stop and buy a doughnut before pissing off and moaning to the local council about the nutter on the corner ranting at passers-by.
I don't post much in any gaming (sub)forum. Doesn't mean I don't read the threads.
edit: but point taken, be the change you want to see. :)
Quote from: Motorskills;834558I don't post much in any gaming (sub)forum. Doesn't mean I don't read the threads.
You - "A lot of you chumps are toxic wankers!"
Others, wankers or not, - "Fuck off Motorskills!"
You - "Critias proved it!"
Others, wankers or not, - "Ignore the shit in Pundit's forum then."
Me - "Ignore Pundit's forum and post about games and you avoid a lot of the toxic wank"
You - "I don't post much about games, but i read lots of threads."
Me - "..."
Edit: Good, you get it and got an edit in while i writing this post.
Quote from: TheFailedSave;821690Hello everyone, and forgive me if I've post this in an inappropriate forum. Also forgive me as this may be a little long winded.
I'm a long time gamer who enjoys traditional style RPGs (D&D, Traveller, BRP, SW, etc.) I have been trying for years to find an online community to discuss games and geek related material, but I've not been able to do so for reasons I will explain below.
I've tried on two separate occasions to make RPG.net the home of my expression. However, both times I was unfairly reprimanded by their staff. The first time was because I suggested that publishers were using crowd funding in a manner that it was not designed for. I suggested that if someone wanted to publish an RPG, that they should write the damn thing first (or have substantial work done) before asking the community for money. I was told that this was a personal attack because they thought I suggested that a writer's time was not worth my money. I was given a formal warning. I was so pissed I left the site.
After that I spent some time on the WoTC and EN world forums but they are, obviously, rather narrowly focused. When I tired of those I decided to try RPG.net again only to receive yet another "punishment" from moderators. This time somebody posted a question about how to get the narrative fiddly bits of The Strix Chronicle to work. I replied that I thought it really didn't work that well and encouraged the poster to try the less "high brow" system from The Masquerade instead. This opinion, apparently, was an offensive attack on Onyx Path and also "thread crapping."
I was quite pissed by then and saw a topic ban on RPG.net on some characters called theRPGpundit and Zak S. Now, I don't really know who these people are (other than that they are not welcome on RPG.net) but I thought the site of one of those people might be a place for me to vent about how pissed I am at RPG.net.
Anyway, thank you for listening to my rant and I hope this is a community that will suit my needs.
Welcome to a place where dissent is okay. I'm an utter a-hole on here at times and haven't been banned or received any of those snotty "warnings" in bold red self-impressed type.
Nothing's locked for toxicity. It's moved from another forum when it's off topic and it gets shut down in "Pundit's forum" when Pundit isn't interested in it. The exception being talking about Stormfront and Pedo stuff and that's a legality thing.