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Author Topic: "Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit  (Read 10544 times)

Bedrockbrendan

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"Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit
« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2014, 01:49:40 PM »
Quote from: Sacrosanct;781562
Of course not, because gaming has traditionally been a male dominated activity.  Why would you question it?  I'm sure women don't question other women on their movitives for joining a scrapbooking club.  But they probably are when a guy joins.


I think we are I agreement there is a double standard, and the double standard didn't emerge from a vacuum, but I see no good reason to continue tge double standard. It doesn't make more sense to do just because there has traditionally been less females in the hobby. If we suspect every female who plays of being there for attention, of being a fake game girl, that is only going to drive more of them away. And like I said before, we've all been to cons and game stores, I really have a hard time these women are there trolling for studs.

danbuter

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"Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit
« Reply #31 on: August 21, 2014, 01:55:51 PM »
You know who starts shit like this? Jealous nerds, male and female.
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Sacrosanct

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"Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit
« Reply #32 on: August 21, 2014, 02:00:43 PM »
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;781564
I think we are I agreement there is a double standard, and the double standard didn't emerge from a vacuum, but I see no good reason to continue tge double standard. It doesn't make more sense to do just because there has traditionally been less females in the hobby. If we suspect every female who plays of being there for attention, of being a fake game girl, that is only going to drive more of them away. And like I said before, we've all been to cons and game stores, I really have a hard time these women are there trolling for studs.


I agree with you 100% that if I were trolling for studs, the game store is one of the last places I'd look ;)

And I also agree that women who do troll for attention are such a low % that it's not worth getting upset about or accusing other women of being disengenous when they aren't.
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Scott Anderson

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"Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit
« Reply #33 on: August 21, 2014, 02:06:19 PM »
Tribalism kills everything it touches.
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mcbobbo

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"Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit
« Reply #34 on: August 21, 2014, 02:33:48 PM »
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;781564
And like I said before, we've all been to cons and game stores, I really have a hard time these women are there trolling for studs.

Once you back away from sex being the only form of attention, though,  it should get easier to believe.

I had a few in highschool, but the most recent example is a sister-in-law.  She knew I liked RPGs and claimed to like them herself.  She encouraged me to start up a weekly family game.  I started getting suspicious when it was clear she wanted to be anywhere else but at that table.  Yet she kept deliberately talking it up, claiming she was eager for the next session, etc, etc, etc.

I then observed my other brother trying to have deep detailed conversations about how to navigate Portal maps with her.  She was way into it, telling him how clever his solutions were, etc.  After he left, I asked her, "I didn't know you played that much Portal."  Her reply - "I don't,  but I know that Josh likes it."

It became pretty easy to spot her doing the same thing to basically everyone in the family.  She saw it as bridge building.

I saw it as disingenuous and a total waste of my time...
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Sacrosanct

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"Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit
« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2014, 03:15:54 PM »
Also, and I know this probably makes me sound like giant misogynist dick, but one big reason why these women* do hang out in "geek circles" (as Brendan implies isn't exactly the place to find studs) is because they are...less than attractive themselves.  Hanging out in more traditional venues doesn't give them any attention.  But in a circle of nerds who are lucky to see breasts in real life?  Suddenly these girls get all kinds of attention.  So it's less about the studliness of guys they are trying to get attention from, and more of the quantity of attention given.  Which often is compared to "none" previously.

I'll also note this behavior is not limited to women by any stretch of the imagination, just that this is the particular context we're talking about.  I think men are actually worse at this.


*again, just a small %.  I in no way am trying to imply all, most, or even a significant amount of women who hang in geek circles do this
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you're stupid, your PC will die.  If you're an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you're unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC's die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

Haffrung

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"Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit
« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2014, 03:43:29 PM »
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;781560
My point is we don't do it in gaming to guys. And if we do, then it is equally stupid. The idea that geek is such a coveted title that folks would endure hours and hours of tabletop play just to gain some weird prestige is also stupid. Just because are jumping on the 5E bandwagon for example, that doesn't mean they aren't there because they love gaming. You are attributing motives to people that you can't possibly know.

And even in those other examples, the issue is with the people making assumptions about the person's motives. There is no reason to assume just because a girl at a game store is getting lots of attention, that that is why she is there. How on earth are you deciphering this? Sure I'll bet she also likes the attention, who doesn't, but that does not make her a fake geek girl.


I'm sure there's a term in Yoga culture for a guy who joins a club just to pick up chicks. But then again, women who do yoga aren't as self-conscious, resentful, embarrassed, and all-around awkward as the guys in geek culture.
 

Bedrockbrendan

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"Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit
« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2014, 03:46:20 PM »
Bottom line for me is if you are at my table playing a game, you're a gamer. No one needs to prove their geek cred to me, and no one is obligated to keep playing with me just because they expressed prior interest.

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"Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit
« Reply #38 on: August 21, 2014, 03:49:01 PM »
Quote from: Sacrosanct;781519
It's nothing new, and applies to all hobbies and both sexes equally.  How many of us sat through a romantic comedy at the movie theater because you were attracted to her?


I watched "The Notebook" because my then-wife wanted to.  God help me.
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Bedrockbrendan

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"Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit
« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2014, 03:49:03 PM »
Quote from: Haffrung;781625
I'm sure there's a term in Yoga culture for a guy who joins a club just to pick up chicks. But then again, women who do yoga aren't as self-conscious, resentful, embarrassed, and all-around awkward as the guys in geek culture.


Maybe but having gone to yoga classes I can say they don't assume that about you just because you are a guy. You go to a Yoga class people are very welcoming because they want other people to enjoy their activity.

Spinachcat

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"Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit
« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2014, 03:49:27 PM »
Humans like to hang out in groups where they are accepted.

If you want to grow your group, become more accepting.

If you want a better group, become more discerning of who is accepted.

I am always happy to have female gamers at my table at FLGS and Con games. Home gaming groups are more personal, and I don't deal with table drama which too often seems to occur when groups include couples or gamer girlfriends or the dorks who act weird around the woman who just showed up to game.

We've had various couples in our groups over the years, but IN MY EXPERIENCE the games have been better without them.

dragoner
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"Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit
« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2014, 03:51:31 PM »
Quote from: Haffrung;781625
I'm sure there's a term in Yoga culture for a guy who joins a club just to pick up chicks. But then again, women who do yoga aren't as self-conscious, resentful, embarrassed, and all-around awkward as the guys in geek culture.


A guy who acts creepy in yoga class will be kicked out. Women know, it's just how much they will put up with is another thing, and from who.
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Haffrung

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"Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit
« Reply #42 on: August 21, 2014, 04:17:48 PM »
Quote from: dragoner;781631
A guy who acts creepy in yoga class will be kicked out. Women know, it's just how much they will put up with is another thing, and from who.

Women in yoga know some guys go to yoga class to meet women. Most women do not find the fact that men try to pick up women creepy. Most men interested in meeting women do not act creepy.

What is this strange, neutered world some people around here seem to live in, or want to live in, where there's no sexual appraisal, curiosity, and frisson in social gatherings where men and women interact? Is this a generational thing? Or just a nerd thing?

Maybe the issue is some people (both the creeps and the white knights) don't seem to understand the difference between normal, healthy socialization, and being a creep. Someone who doesn't know when he's making other people uncomfortable has issues. On the other hand, someone who is uncomfortable with appraisal and mild flirtation also has a problem. They probably both have issues in a lot more venues than a gaming gathering. So I don't understand what any of this has to do with gaming.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 04:22:49 PM by Haffrung »
 

Dana

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"Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit
« Reply #43 on: August 21, 2014, 04:19:09 PM »
Heh. It never occurred to me until all this fake geek girl stuff came up that anyone in a gaming store or con could possibly be questioning my motives for being there or doubting my cred. It'd be pretty hilarious if someone acted like I didn't belong there.

Well, I guess it'd be sad for them if they ran the store 'cause me and my credit card would be walking out the door.

dragoner
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"Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit
« Reply #44 on: August 21, 2014, 04:36:39 PM »
Quote from: Haffrung;781640
Women in yoga know some guys go to yoga class to meet women. Most women do not find the fact that men try to pick up women creepy. Most men interested in meeting women do not act creepy.

What is this strange, neutered world some people around here seem to live in, or want to live in, where there's no sexual appraisal, curiosity, and frisson in social gatherings where men and women interact? Is this a generational thing? Or just a nerd thing?

Maybe the issue is some people (both the creeps and the white knights) don't seem to understand the difference between normal, healthy socialization, and being a creep. Someone who doesn't know when he's making other people uncomfortable has issues. On the other hand, someone who is uncomfortable with appraisal and mild flirtation also has a problem. They probably both have issues in a lot more venues than a gaming gathering. So I don't understand what any of this has to do with gaming.


It is being socially inept, not understanding what is being a creep or not. Or not knowing when no means no. Or being the poisoned M&M.

Stuff that as men we don't have to deal with.
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