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Author Topic: "Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit  (Read 10549 times)

ArrozConLeche

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"Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2014, 12:23:34 PM »
Quote from: RPGPundit;781432
In my case, it was nothing to do with luck, it was just that I GOT THE FUCKING MESSAGE.  I figured out that its not the rest of the world that has to change and stop “picking on me” for not knowing how to fit in, I just had to start learning how to fit in.  I figured out that in this world, Charisma isn’t the dumpstat, its everything.   And it was fucking hard, and took a few years, but I changed: I learned how to clean myself, dress myself, speak in public, feel confident around people (including girls! amazing!), I had to work hard and train myself in how to appreciate the nuances of culture, and how to not make everything about me or my immediate desires, and how to adapt myself to whatever environment or group I found myself in. And figuring out how in fact, yes, you can do this and still be yourself, still be an individual, still be a “nerd”, and not “betraying” anything except that part of us that’s an antisocial little shit that wants to get but not give. You know, the animal part, that has to be overcome so that we can be civilized human beings.


Agree with the core of the message, but my experience also was that I had either leave or leave in the closet the geek related stuff in order to get rid of the stigma. I remember girls, some of them interested in me, who would question for example why I would even read a comic book.

It was really off putting, but I finally did get the message that I had to stop doing the harmless crap I liked, like RPGs, in order for a lot of people to not write me off. They just could not understand why I would prefer to play an RPG to being in a nightclub or bar getting wasted.

Mostly after I entered college, I just hid all of that stuff or left it behind. I only recently started becoming interested again and it's still in the closet, so to speak.

ArrozConLeche

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"Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2014, 12:25:41 PM »
Quote from: Sacrosanct;781519
It's nothing new, and applies to all hobbies and both sexes equally.  How many of us sat through a romantic comedy at the movie theater because you were attracted to her?


Yeah and I actually think it's the right thing to do, anyway, if at least you try to show genuine interest in what the person you like is interested in.

Bedrockbrendan

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"Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2014, 12:55:13 PM »
I don't know, I honestly find the idea that hordes of women are pretending to be geeks because they want our hot bodies a notion that is just beyond silly. Yes, anything and everything occurs in life, but come on guys, we've all been to game stores and conventions, does anyone honestly think this is going on on a big enough scale that it is even worthy of comment? And if it were, why on earth are you complaining?

jibbajibba

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"Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2014, 12:59:40 PM »
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;781521
Yeah and I actually think it's the right thing to do, anyway, if at least you try to show genuine interest in what the person you like is interested in.

To be entirely sexist for a moment.

I have found anecdotally that men tend to get hobbies that let them escape their partner, tinkering with an old car in the garage, making beer, going the bar with their mates to watch the rugby, playing COD for 45 hours straight etc whereas Women tend to prefer hobbies they can do with their partner to get more quality time, in fact their favorite hobby would be talking in great detail about their day, or at a stretch going for along walk so they could talk at great length about their day etc :D

As for women pretending to like Men's stuff... its build into the DNA of Western Culture (in most Eastern Cultures its irrelevant) From Rachel pretending to be interested in museums to date Ross, to Penny pretending to like physics when the hot physics prof shows up. I mean the girls that got dragged to Football games were so bored to death they invented Cheer-leading. How bored must they have been to do that?

Men might do a rom com, or sit through one of the Twilight movies with their actual partner and they might go salsa dancing once they find out from a mate that the bar is 80% hot East European girls and no blokes but they are unlikely to attend flower arranging classes, or evening classes in sewing simply to meet women there are after all limits.

Of course none of this undermines the basic Rock Rule of Relationships.....

    See... Relationships are hard, man. For order, for any relationship to work, both people have to be on the same page, both people have to have the same focus, and we all know what that page is. We all know what that focus is. In order for the relationship to work both people have to have the same focus, and what's that focus? That focus is all about HER! It's all about her!
Fellas, when you wake up in the morning, you should look yourself in the mirror and say, "FUCK YOU! Fuck your hopes, fuck your dreams, fuck your plans … fuck everything you thought this life was going to bring to you. Now let's go out there and try to make this bitch happy."



I'm all out of sexism now :)
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jibbajibba

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"Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2014, 01:03:50 PM »
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;781532
I don't know, I honestly find the idea that hordes of women are pretending to be geeks because they want our hot bodies a notion that is just beyond silly. Yes, anything and everything occurs in life, but come on guys, we've all been to game stores and conventions, does anyone honestly think this is going on on a big enough scale that it is even worthy of comment? And if it were, why on earth are you complaining?


the complaining is the bit I don't get :)

Shit you would think that they would be paying girls to try RPGs.

Mind you having been to a few Gen Cons .... meh... not keen.
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flyerfan1991

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"Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2014, 01:05:35 PM »
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;781517
Depends on how hot you are to the girls. I usually saw it in regards to sports. Girls pretending to be interested in the finer points of baseball or basketball in order to spend time with a guy.


There's a bit of a difference between "spend time" and/or "date" and "have casual sex", which is what I was surprised about.

Sacrosanct

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"Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2014, 01:08:16 PM »
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;781532
I don't know, I honestly find the idea that hordes of women are pretending to be geeks because they want our hot bodies a notion that is just beyond silly. Yes, anything and everything occurs in life, but come on guys, we've all been to game stores and conventions, does anyone honestly think this is going on on a big enough scale that it is even worthy of comment? And if it were, why on earth are you complaining?


I agree that it's certainly only a small minority of women who do this in the gaming hobby, and by far the vast majority just want to play games.  Ergo, complaining about it is pretty trivial.

But I think why some people complain are about those women who are queen bees, because it often causes a lot of drama.  Men get stupid fighting over the attention of women.  Especially men who are already socially challenged ;)
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you're stupid, your PC will die.  If you're an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you're unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC's die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

Bedrockbrendan

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"Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2014, 01:13:50 PM »
Quote from: Sacrosanct;781538
I agree that it's certainly only a small minority of women who do this in the gaming hobby, and by far the vast majority just want to play games.  Ergo, complaining about it is pretty trivial.

But I think why some people complain are about those women who are queen bees, because it often causes a lot of drama.  Men get stupid fighting over the attention of women.  Especially men who are already socially challenged ;)


Those are two different things entirely though. Just because a given group or store or game scene has a small number of women and they therefore have guys vying for their attention, that doesn't make the women fake geek girls. That is the opposite of what folks are describing. I really think this fake geek girl thing is in everyone's head. I have never once net a girl gamer who wasn't genuinely interested in the hobby (even ones who came to it through a boy friend or spouse).

Bedrockbrendan

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"Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2014, 01:17:34 PM »
Quote from: Sacrosanct;781538
I agree that it's certainly only a small minority of women who do this in the gaming hobby, and by far the vast majority just want to play games.  Ergo, complaining about it is pretty trivial.

 ;)


The whole concept of fake geek is incredibly adolescent. I mean it is up there with worrying about posers or checking people's music knowledge to challenge their claim as metal heads.

Sacrosanct

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"Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit
« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2014, 01:20:25 PM »
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;781540
Those are two different things entirely though. Just because a given group or store or game scene has a small number of women and they therefore have guys vying for their attention, that doesn't make the women fake geek girls. That is the opposite of what folks are describing. I really think this fake geek girl thing is in everyone's head. I have never once net a girl gamer who wasn't genuinely interested in the hobby (even ones who came to it through a boy friend or spouse).


That's not what I was getting at.  I was getting at those girls/women who join the group for the attention.  And yes, I have seen this in real life.  But like you say, it's such the minority of female gamers that it's quite the exception and not the rule.
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you're stupid, your PC will die.  If you're an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you're unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC's die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

Bedrockbrendan

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"Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit
« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2014, 01:29:55 PM »
Quote from: Sacrosanct;781547
That's not what I was getting at.  I was getting at those girls/women who join the group for the attention.  And yes, I have seen this in real life.  But like you say, it's such the minority of female gamers that it's quite the exception and not the rule.


I haven't seen it and don't really buy it. I have seen women who join groups that do recieve attention from the men, but I doubt that is why they joined or continue to stay. You can hold anyone's interest under a microscope and claim they are there for other reasons (Jeremy is only in a band because it gets him lots of girlfriends, Nathan only likes to GM because he likes the attention, Timothy only shows up for D&D to eat Doritos, etc). We never hold the guy's interest under a microscope because it is obviously a stupid and pointless area of investigation, so why attribute motives to women who game, when they're the only ones who really know why they are there?

Sacrosanct

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"Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2014, 01:35:24 PM »
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;781549
I haven't seen it and don't really buy it. I have seen women who join groups that do recieve attention from the men, but I doubt that is why they joined or continue to stay. You can hold anyone's interest under a microscope and claim they are there for other reasons (Jeremy is only in a band because it gets him lots of girlfriends, Nathan only likes to GM because he likes the attention, Timothy only shows up for D&D to eat Doritos, etc). We never hold the guy's interest under a microscope because it is obviously a stupid and pointless area of investigation, so why attribute motives to women who game, when they're the only ones who really know why they are there?


Yeah we do.  We either call them bandwagoners, or especially if it's a more traditionally female orientated activity, we make assumptions.  All the time.  If a guy joins the cheerleader squad, people assume he's either gay, or he's out to get girls.  Almost never because maybe he just likes cheerleading.  Or the crafting club.  Or any other female dominated hobby.
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you're stupid, your PC will die.  If you're an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you're unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC's die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

Haffrung

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"Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2014, 01:38:48 PM »
Quote from: jibbajibba;781533

I have found anecdotally that men tend to get hobbies that let them escape their partner, tinkering with an old car in the garage, making beer, going the bar with their mates to watch the rugby, playing COD for 45 hours straight etc whereas Women tend to prefer hobbies they can do with their partner to get more quality time, in fact their favorite hobby would be talking in great detail about their day, or at a stretch going for along walk so they could talk at great length about their day etc :D


In my experience, women are more likely to prefer hobbies they can do with other people, not just their partner. And once they're married with kids (in the experience of me and my circle of friends), women are just as eager to get away from the husband and kids once in a while as men are. Which is one of the reasons social activities tend to split along gender lines once couples have kids - the guys want to get away from wives and kids with other guys, the women want to get from husband and kids with other women. It's the reason why book club participants are 95 per cent, and why a guy showing up at one expecting the focus of the gathering to be an in-depth analysis of a book will walk away disappointed.
 

Bedrockbrendan

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"Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2014, 01:42:46 PM »
Quote from: Sacrosanct;781553
Yeah we do.  We either call them bandwagoners, or especially if it's a more traditionally female orientated activity, we make assumptions.  All the time.  If a guy joins the cheerleader squad, people assume he's either gay, or he's out to get girls.  Almost never because maybe he just likes cheerleading.  Or the crafting club.  Or any other female dominated hobby.


My point is we don't do it in gaming to guys. And if we do, then it is equally stupid. The idea that geek is such a coveted title that folks would endure hours and hours of tabletop play just to gain some weird prestige is also stupid. Just because are jumping on the 5E bandwagon for example, that doesn't mean they aren't there because they love gaming. You are attributing motives to people that you can't possibly know.

And even in those other examples, the issue is with the people making assumptions about the person's motives. There is no reason to assume just because a girl at a game store is getting lots of attention, that that is why she is there. How on earth are you deciphering this? Sure I'll bet she also likes the attention, who doesn't, but that does not make her a fake geek girl.

Sacrosanct

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"Horrible-sexist" RPGPundit Opposing the "fake geek girl" bullshit
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2014, 01:45:02 PM »
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;781560
My point is we don't do it in gaming to guys. .


Of course not, because gaming has traditionally been a male dominated activity.  Why would you question it?  I'm sure women don't question other women on their movitives for joining a scrapbooking club.  But they probably are when a guy joins.
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you're stupid, your PC will die.  If you're an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you're unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC's die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.