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Author Topic: High school volleyball player injured in game against Trans player and people...  (Read 3550 times)

jhkim

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If you don't believe in the headline for the article that started this conversation, then why have you been basing you argument for a page and a half on it? It has only been in the last few posts, after your bullshit coed stance was destroyed, that you decided to try and say that the headline is false and the player causing the injury wasn't a trans.

C'mon groomer, lie some more!

Read my first post to this thread, reply #1 dated Oct 20. Here is the last line from that:

Quote
As a side note, from reading the news around this, none of the people involved have even said that the student in question is transgender. I can't tell where that claim came from. Maybe they are transgender, but it isn't stated.

Link: https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/high-school-volleyball-player-injured-in-game-against-trans-player-and-people/msg1233424/#msg1233424


jeff37923

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If you don't believe in the headline for the article that started this conversation, then why have you been basing you argument for a page and a half on it? It has only been in the last few posts, after your bullshit coed stance was destroyed, that you decided to try and say that the headline is false and the player causing the injury wasn't a trans.

C'mon groomer, lie some more!

Read my first post to this thread, reply #1 dated Oct 20. Here is the last line from that:

Quote
As a side note, from reading the news around this, none of the people involved have even said that the student in question is transgender. I can't tell where that claim came from. Maybe they are transgender, but it isn't stated.

Link: https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/high-school-volleyball-player-injured-in-game-against-trans-player-and-people/msg1233424/#msg1233424

I understand how reality is inconvenient to your narrative, but this isn't the first time that you have been a disingenuous twat. Or are all of these news sources wrong?



https://www.foxnews.com/sports/transgender-high-school-volleyball-player-appears-feature-spike-injured-opponent-highlight-reel

https://www.outkick.com/trans-hs-volleyball-player-that-injured-female-opponent-posts-highlight-reel/

https://www.metroweekly.com/2022/10/school-district-forfeits-all-volleyball-matches-against-team-with-trans-player/

https://nypost.com/2022/10/22/north-carolina-school-district-votes-to-forfeit-games-against-rival-after-transgender-athlete-injures-player/

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/female-high-school-volleyball-athlete-suffers-serious-head-injury-after-transgender-player-throws-abnormally-fast-ball/

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/restoring-america/fairness-justice/district-forfeits-games-transgender-player

https://thepostmillennial.com/north-carolina-school-board-blocks-further-games-with-competing-school-following-injury-caused-by-transgender-player
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jhkim

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It has only been in the last few posts, after your bullshit coed stance was destroyed, that you decided to try and say that the headline is false and the player causing the injury wasn't a trans.

Read my first post to this thread, reply #1 dated Oct 20. Here is the last line from that:

Quote
As a side note, from reading the news around this, none of the people involved have even said that the student in question is transgender. I can't tell where that claim came from. Maybe they are transgender, but it isn't stated.

Link: https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/high-school-volleyball-player-injured-in-game-against-trans-player-and-people/msg1233424/#msg1233424

I understand how reality is inconvenient to your narrative, but this isn't the first time that you have been a disingenuous twat. Or are all of these news sources wrong?

1) In the bolded line above, you claimed that it was "only in the last few posts" that I supposedly said the headline was false -- that I had shifted my position. I then posted how I said exactly the same thing in my first post to this thread in reply #1, which shows I have not shifted anything.

2) I also never claimed that the news sources were wrong. Saying that I don't instantly believe something isn't the same as saying they are wrong.

3) Whether the individual student is transgender has no bearing on what else I have said, which was about general policies about volleyball and the supposed danger of male players spiking the ball at female players. Again, non-transgender male players spike the ball at female players in coed games. Transgender players aren't stronger or more dangerous than men, so the danger is no greater than coed games.

Valatar

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jhkim's argument is based on saying that a biological male is the same as a biological female as long as that male claims to be a male to female trans. That only makes sense in Clown World.

While there are people who are claiming that having six inches of height and fifteen kilos of muscle over the other players doesn't give the MtFs an advantage in sports, jhkim hasn't made that claim in this thread.  He's stated that a boy playing against girls in volleyball isn't inherently dangerous for the girls.  Which, with the disclaimer that I don't care enough to actually dig for injury statistics in high school volleyball, sounds like a fair enough claim to make.  It's hardly a full-contact sport.

If jhkim had claimed that a dude had zero advantage in reach or strength over girls despite living 80% of his life awash in testosterone and it was perfectly fair and heckin' valid uwu, then I would call bullshit.    But that's a very different claim from saying that he's probably not a danger to the other players.

jhkim

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While there are people who are claiming that having six inches of height and fifteen kilos of muscle over the other players doesn't give the MtFs an advantage in sports, jhkim hasn't made that claim in this thread.  He's stated that a boy playing against girls in volleyball isn't inherently dangerous for the girls.  Which, with the disclaimer that I don't care enough to actually dig for injury statistics in high school volleyball, sounds like a fair enough claim to make.  It's hardly a full-contact sport.

If jhkim had claimed that a dude had zero advantage in reach or strength over girls despite living 80% of his life awash in testosterone and it was perfectly fair and heckin' valid uwu, then I would call bullshit.    But that's a very different claim from saying that he's probably not a danger to the other players.

Thanks, Valatar.

To clarify a bit -- I do think there is a danger of concussion and other injury. But lots of high school sports have significant danger of injury regardless of sex. Among high school girls' sports, soccer has the highest concussion rate. Girl's volleyball has a significant concussion rate, around one-third that of boys' football and half that of girl's soccer. Even cheerleading has a significant concussion rate, unsurprising given the acrobatic flips they often do.

cf. https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/144/5/e20192180/38225/Concussion-Incidence-and-Trends-in-20-High-School

Still, girls soccer and coed volleyball are generally considered within the acceptable levels of risk, and under standard tournament rules coed games allow exactly the play seen in the original post, with a male player spiking the ball towards a female player.

Ghostmaker

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Except it wasn't a coed game.

It was supposed to be an all girls game.

Except one of the girls wasn't.


jeff37923

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Except it wasn't a coed game.

It was supposed to be an all girls game.

Except one of the girls wasn't.

The reality that is inconvenient for jhkim.
"I do not want to create a story, I want to create a stage. The player characters will perform on that stage and interact with the setting. When the players talk to their friends about what their characters did, then there will be a story."

jhkim

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Except it wasn't a coed game.

It was supposed to be an all girls game.

Except one of the girls wasn't.

That doesn't dispute anything I said. I feel like I have phrased this many times, but to express it as a question. Consider two cases:

1) A non-transgender boy spikes the ball in a coed game
2) A transgender player spikes the ball in a girls game

Which of these is more dangerous to girl players? On what basis do you claim that?

To my mind, the transgender player is no greater strength than the non-transgender male players, so the danger is at most equivalent.

Eirikrautha

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Except it wasn't a coed game.

It was supposed to be an all girls game.

Except one of the girls wasn't.

That doesn't dispute anything I said. I feel like I have phrased this many times, but to express it as a question. Consider two cases:

1) A non-transgender boy spikes the ball in a coed game
2) A transgender player spikes the ball in a girls game

Which of these is more dangerous to girl players? On what basis do you claim that?

To my mind, the transgender player is no greater strength than the non-transgender male players, so the danger is at most equivalent.
A soldier gets shot at on the battlefield.  As a store clerk the same person gets shot at during a robbery.  Which of these is more dangerous?  Therefore, it's no big deal for criminals to use guns in a robbery.

rytrasmi

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That doesn't dispute anything I said. I feel like I have phrased this many times, but to express it as a question. Consider two cases:

1) A non-transgender boy spikes the ball in a coed game
2) A transgender player spikes the ball in a girls game

Which of these is more dangerous to girl players? On what basis do you claim that?
Case 2) is obviously more dangerous to girl players because there is a 100% chance the person at the other end of the spike is a girl. In case 1), that chance is less than 100% and probably 50% depending on the required male/female makeup of the teams.

So yeah, it’s twice as dangerous to girl players.
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Ghostmaker

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Except it wasn't a coed game.

It was supposed to be an all girls game.

Except one of the girls wasn't.

That doesn't dispute anything I said. I feel like I have phrased this many times, but to express it as a question. Consider two cases:

1) A non-transgender boy spikes the ball in a coed game
2) A transgender player spikes the ball in a girls game

Which of these is more dangerous to girl players? On what basis do you claim that?

To my mind, the transgender player is no greater strength than the non-transgender male players, so the danger is at most equivalent.
Because the expectation in a GIRL'S game is that they will be playing other GIRLS.

Not boys. GIRLS. Do you comprehend this? Did it go by too fast? Do you need me to spell it out more clearly?

jhkim

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Case 2) is obviously more dangerous to girl players because there is a 100% chance the person at the other end of the spike is a girl. In case 1), that chance is less than 100% and probably 50% depending on the required male/female makeup of the teams.

So yeah, it’s twice as dangerous to girl players.

First of all, thanks. That's a sensible argument that comes towards what I wrote. You're assuming only one transgender player among both girls teams, which seems reasonable. That said,

1) Since they have boys on both sides, the coed games will have boy-delivered spikes at at least twice the rate as the girl games have transgender-delivered spikes. So that at least doubles the overall danger in coed games.

2) You assume that volleyball spikes are aimed at random, whereas in my experience, a spiker will try to hit it towards whoever is the least-capable player on the other team. Given that we're saying girl players are weaker, that means that it will be more than the 50% you assume.


Because the expectation in a GIRL'S game is that they will be playing other GIRLS.

How does that expectation change the danger? If the girls team knows in advance, will that change things?

jeff37923

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Case 2) is obviously more dangerous to girl players because there is a 100% chance the person at the other end of the spike is a girl. In case 1), that chance is less than 100% and probably 50% depending on the required male/female makeup of the teams.

So yeah, it’s twice as dangerous to girl players.

First of all, thanks. That's a sensible argument that comes towards what I wrote. You're assuming only one transgender player among both girls teams, which seems reasonable. That said,

1) Since they have boys on both sides, the coed games will have boy-delivered spikes at at least twice the rate as the girl games have transgender-delivered spikes. So that at least doubles the overall danger in coed games.

2) You assume that volleyball spikes are aimed at random, whereas in my experience, a spiker will try to hit it towards whoever is the least-capable player on the other team. Given that we're saying girl players are weaker, that means that it will be more than the 50% you assume.


Because the expectation in a GIRL'S game is that they will be playing other GIRLS.

How does that expectation change the danger? If the girls team knows in advance, will that change things?

OK, Groomer.
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oggsmash

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   Recreational coed volley ball tends to have DIFFERENT rules than competitive volleyball (ie actual athletes and not randos playing) especially around men not being allowed to spike in the front court on a women's height net.....I WONDER why they have rules like that????  Fucktards seem to pretend there are not large gaps in physiological ability (especially when actual athletes are on the court and not math nerds trying to get some exercise) and there is no increase in danger.  Fuck off if the obvious escapes you.

oggsmash

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Except it wasn't a coed game.

It was supposed to be an all girls game.

Except one of the girls wasn't.

That doesn't dispute anything I said. I feel like I have phrased this many times, but to express it as a question. Consider two cases:

1) A non-transgender boy spikes the ball in a coed game
2) A transgender player spikes the ball in a girls game

Which of these is more dangerous to girl players? On what basis do you claim that?

To my mind, the transgender player is no greater strength than the non-transgender male players, so the danger is at most equivalent.

  Coed games rules involve for one...NON athletes, two...males are NOT allowed to spike in the front court in many, many coed rules games.  This is because a girls game is expected to be all girls.  Also coed leagues games assume as I said regular people/non athletes.   In every competitive athletic level past age 11 there IS NO COED FOR A REASON.